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The Cruelty Of The Christian God part 2

Updated on March 23, 2013

What has always surprised me is that when asked, not many Christians have a problem with incest being the way mankind was propagated. If that was how god wanted it done, then that's how he did it. No problem. They have obviously been faced with this idea before and are resigned to it. They don't seem shocked when I bring up the subject. They see no cruelty in incest.

But then I have to ask the question. Why did he later make incest a sin? If it was good enough for creation, why is it a sin today, and why does inbreeding cause deformity and retardation? Wouldn't it have done so then as well?

Did god make another mistake? Or is this really a mistake made by the creators of god? Had the people who originated these stories (The Sumerians) not yet evolved to where they were actively breeding animals? If that is so, then they could not possibly know the consequences of incest. Perhaps they hadn't attributed deformity of their "own" young to it yet.

Then there is the question of why a god who claimed to love us so, would have created a world where everything must kill in order to survive? Could he not have made us so we wouldn't have to consume other life in order for us to live? This smacks of downright cruelty. Or was it another mistake?

He could have made us free of pain, free of hardship. But he did not. He made us in such a way that we would suffer heat, cold, hunger, disease, hardship. I ask again, what kind of God would do this? It shows anything but a loving nature.

And if he made animals for us to eat, why create them in a way which allows them to suffer when we kill them? Why make them kill for their survival? This is beginning to sound like a sadist. More like what most see as the devil rather than a benevolent God.

Another example of this cruelty is, so called, free will. On the one hand, the religious say we have free will, but if god knows in advance that we will sin. Then there is no free will. If he knows all, then it is predestined to happen, and we have no free will because no matter what we do it is the will of god.

So why allow the babies to be born that he knows will commit mortal sins and be cast into eternal hell? Did he lie when he told us we had free will? Was it another mistake? It looks like this god is very cold blooded, indeed.

This brings me to another point. Nowhere in the Bible does it actually say that we were given free will. We were told unconditionally that we must not eat of the tree. There was no choice given except the choice created by cause and effect. The tree was there, had it not been, there would be no cause and no effect. It was god’s fault, not that of Adam and Eve.

Where does the idea of free will come from if not from the Bible itself? Nowhere does it say he didn't want robots, it’s something we have come to believe because we do have limited will; and I must stress that it is very limited.

Then there are the tests. The story of Abraham, who must sacrifice his child to god in order to appease him, and only at the point Abraham is ready to commit murder does god stop him and tell him it was just a test. Didn't god know in advance what the outcome of that test would be? Why do a test if you know the outcome? Why does god test people if he knows the outcome? It makes zero sense.

Please don't think that this was the first time a son had been sacrificed for god. If Christianity believes that this was just a test and god would not actually let someone go through with it, they don't know history very well. As I have already pointed out, almost every culture in history had its sects which sacrificed children and virgins to their gods.

The laws of Moses tell us that we must sacrifice our first born and the first born of every animal we own. What could a benevolent god want with the blood of our first born children? This is outright cruelty. The fact the Jews replaced their kids with sheep is an indication that they weren’t happy with the idea of sacrificing their kids anymore and so had to make up a story in which god told them it was ok not to. The story of Abraham maybe just a story told by the Jews which explains to them why they didn’t have to sacrifice their kids now that they had a new relationship with god through Abraham.

And then there is the flood. It is believed by some that he literally wiped out all life on the planet except for a boat load of animals. He committed genocide. Now is that the act of a loving father or a vengeful, vain god with no regard for his creation in the least? It would be the same if science created a race of intelligent beings in the lab, and simply decided to toss them in the wastebasket when they didn't perform as was expected.

But we are not talking about a limited human being that could claim he didn't know. We are talking about a supposedly all knowing and all seeing god.

Why would a god have to do this? Did he not know in advance that the world would turn out the way it did? Did he make another mistake in his creation and decide to correct it? The evidence begins to point to a god with a great deal of ineptitude. The more in-depth story of the flood can be found in the book of Enoch. It is where we get a lot of our ideas about satans and the reason for the flood. Even though it is not recognized as part of Judaism or Christianity.

The old testament is full of such examples from beginning to end. Each event shows him as little more than a vain vengeful entity bent on the glorification of himself and the slavery of the creation he brought into being. The rhetoric bears this out: "Vengeance is mine." “An eye for an eye." “God fearing people." “The wrath of God” The list goes on.

Here are a few quotes that illustrate the points I have been making up till now.

Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

In this passage, god advocates and commands the murder of children and woman, as well as slavery of young girls.

Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein (is) the breath of life, from under heaven; (and) everything that (is) in the earth shall die.

Here we see god committing genocide upon his creation.

Exodus 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote (massacred) all the first-born in the land of Egypt, from the first-born of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the first-born of the captive that (was) in the dungeon: and all the first-born of cattle.

Even the cattle were not immune to god's wrath. What sin could they have possibly perpetrated? Of course, he didn't care about the cattle, as such. It was done to bring more misery to the person he was punishing.

Yes, all of this destruction upon innocent people and animals, all to punish the Pharaoh for not letting the Jews leave Egypt. Yet time after time it is said that the lord God hardened the pharaoh's heart and wouldn't let him give in.

­EXO 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Here, the proof comes from gods mouth. "but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go." God does not say that the pharaoh will harden his heart. He says:

"but I will harden his heart,"

At almost every juncture of the many plagues God sets upon Egypt, the Pharaoh wants to give in. Yet when the plagues are over, "God" hardens his heart. Some say that we are to interpret this as meaning that the Pharaoh went back on his word. Are we supposed to believe that after every plague, which destroys so much of Egypt, the Pharaoh thinks to himself that it was all coincidence? Are we to believe the Pharaoh thought Moses or his God had no real power?

How could he believe that if the evidence was before his eyes? There is an answer to this. If you read these passages you get the impression that there was a long stretch of time between the plagues. This is not a thing that happens in seven consecutive days. There is, in fact, no time frame indicated, but it would make sense that if a long period of time elapsed between each plague the Pharaoh would have time, and just enough doubt, that he might take a chance on it all being coincidence.

But then, wouldn't he have had Moses and Aaron murdered? Why not? It would have solved his problems and quelled any rebellion. These were two Jews in front of him; slaves. If he feared them he would have had them killed. If he feared them or their god enough not to have them killed out of an apprehension of reprisal, he would have let them go. But he does nothing. He just sits there and allows them to roam the city, stirring up rebellion. Would a real politician act that way? History indicates that he would not.

What about Mosses and Aaron? If a long time passes between the end of each plague and the beginning of the next, where are they? Shouldn't they have tried to leave right away? It makes sense that Moses would have gone back the morning after he had stopped the plague and said "Ok, god stopped the plague. Now keep your promise and let us go."

It does not make any sense that he should wait for months in between. It also makes no sense that since pharaoh doesn't let them go, Moses or god would wait a number of days or months to start the next plague.

So how could there have been a long time frame? The only reason for there to be a long time frame between plagues would be if Moses needed time to set each one of them up.... Surely a god needs no time to set up a plague?

Again, if we are not happy with that thought then we are left with the idea that if there were short spans of time between each plague, then the Pharaoh would not have been able to ignore these terrors. He would not have been that stupid or that sure of himself, would he? Yet that is what we are told is going on here.

So maybe we can say that Pharaoh is head strong and a bit stupid, but that is not how Moses sees it. Moses keeps attributing the "hardening of the heart" to god instead of the Pharaoh, and god himself claims this to be the case.

This suggests that god couldn't, or wouldn't, simply soften the heart of pharaoh, so he had to "force" him to let them go through no less than terrorist tactics. The plagues are akin to chemical and biological warfare designed to torment and traumatize the Pharaoh and the people of Egypt.

You can see the dilemma here. If god had said to Moses that he knew the Pharaoh to be a despicable man that wasn't about to let the people leave, we could understand that. The Pharaoh admits to not knowing who their god is. We expect the pharaoh to be obstinate.

But god is saying that he personally will make sure the Pharaoh feels this way. That is what "I will harden his heart" literally means. This says that god did not want to "soften" the heart of the pharaoh.

If god had said that he would "soften" the Pharaoh's heart for the Jews, and deal with him later for his obstinate heart, then that would show a wise, fair, and compassionate god. It would have shown that he knew the heart of Pharaoh. It would have shown his real power and understanding.

But Moses was making a point here, and it is explained best in this next passage.

EXO 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

This says that the god of Moses is in control of everything. Pharaoh has no free will in the matter, nor does he have any say in its outcome. This god plans it all in advance and then just moves the chess pieces. There is no free will hear at all.

In that light, can we blame the Pharaoh for the wrath of god? If god has hardened his heart then it is god playing with the Pharaoh at his whim and amusement. His anger then looks like it comes from the psyche of a mad man. Having planed it all, he has no reason to be angry.

But, either god has control over the situation or he does not. It is clear that Moses felt he did, and that god purposely didn't let the Pharaoh give in so as to be able to perform all these miracles of torture. What he shows no concern for, at all, are all the innocent Egyptians he is murdering. Again, this unbalanced god takes his vengeance out on the babies. Does any of that make sense?

For the leader of any country or army or religion to advocate this kind of behavior would be viewed as barbaric in the absolute extreme. We would rise up on mass and smash his regime. Yet this is the god of Moses? This is the all loving and all forgiving Christian god?

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh (is) the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

We might ask when this decree was revoked. I have never seen a passage in the Bible where it says it's ok to work on the Sabbath, yet Christians completely ignore this decree. Not that I'm complaining. Let's let god do his own dirty work. If he wants to stone us on the Sabbath, let him pick up the rocks and do it himself.

II Samuel 12: 31 And he (David) brought forth the people that (were) therein, and put (them) under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brickkiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon

More murder in the name of God.

Ephesians 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ.

If you weren't convinced that god thinks it’s ok to have slaves, this passage should quell all your doubts. Not only does he advocate slavery, he tells us we should obey our masters as we obey Christ. This god does not tell the owners of slaves to set them free. He tells the slaves to obey their masters.To me this is yet another sign post that tells of the politics of religion.


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      4 years ago

      Wow, apparently, I'm not alone in my hatred of an immoral god (if one exists at all). Both my parents died in pain due to cancer, I've had cancer 3 times, severe neck problems and neuropathy in my feet and legs (I'm 55 and on SSD). Somehow, I don't think that myself or my parents deserve to go to hell for eternity because we didn't believe in a particular religion. Why should a person who lives, say 60 years, be tortured for eternity? Does the punishment fit the crime? Even Adolph Hitler, as an extreme example, meted out a limited amount of pain and suffering. I'd be all for torturing Hitler for a million years or however long he would need to atone for his sins, but it would still not equal eternity. Better yet, forget the torture - how about not allowing monsters like Hitler to be born or for human behavior to be so easily corruptible.

      I could go on for a long time but many here have echoed my cries. Personally, I believe that we are amusement for some cosmic being or beings who care about us as much as we care about ants. I don't have any proof of this, but it fits reality a whole lot better than any religion I know of. So, try to be a good person, live life to the fullest, prepare for emergencies and screw god.

      I would also say to the person who described him/herself as being physically ugly, unless you have open sores all over your body or have half your face missing, there is somebody out there for you if you just look hard enough and focus on all of your good qualities. I know it's easier said then done, but then again, I see plenty of overweight and funny looking people every day walking hand-in-hand with significant others. Try not to give up. If you have something like acne, go to a dermatologist. Bottom line: there are all sorts of people out there, and most are NOT perfect and gorgeous.

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      5 years ago

      The Biblical God is unjust. This experiment with free will and Adam and Eve was a recipe for disaster and tragedy. Its a ticking time bomb. It was ENSNAREMENT AND ENTRAPMENT. The world was set up to be screwed with this unjust dangerous and cruel experiment. Notice that God refuses to forgive Adam and Eve and refuses to give them a second chance. He goes right ahead and curse and punishes the entire creation and has Adam and Eves sin transmitted to all their future unborn descendants. So its predetermined and predecided that all of humanity born after Adam and Eve have to be born with a sinful nature. What kind of God conducts such injustice? This God of the Bible weote the book on "How to screw and ruin your creation." I did not create or cause my sinfulness. Adam and Eve did and Nature and Nurture also dictates and determines my behavior and every other persons behavior. We DON'T have total free will. We have partial free will but not total free will. No one is totally free and nobody has total free will. So were being punished by this God to a large extent for being what Adam and Eve made us to be and for being what Nature made us to be and for being what Nurture made us to be. By Nurture I mean a persons family community neighbirhood society schooling and environment. And if one is going to add the Devil or Satan and demons as influencing and corrupting human beings then that leaves even less room for free will. So this unjust unreasoning God is punishing us for being influenced and corrupted by the Devil and demons. Its unjust. This God of the Bible has no common sense and has no reasoning and does not know how to forgive. All He knows how to do is PUNISH PUNISH PUNISH and His punishments are monstrously cruel inhumane and beyond what we can imagine. Cruelty and negligence are His ways. Its an embarrassment.

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      5 years ago

      I truly feel that Christians and other religious folks ought to examine their beliefs more closely. Do we really want to believe that every word of the Bible is literally true? Taken literally the entire creation including Dinosaurs Trilobites and Humans are only 6000 to 30000 years old and made in 6 literal days and that God devised a dangerous cruel experiment with free will and Adam and Eve and allowed a talking tempting snake to deceive Adam and Eve and have Adam and Eves sin transmitted to all future human beings and to have all creation cursed and punished forever thereafter. Cruelty injustice insanity stupidity and negligence. Not even Laurel and Hardy and not even the 3 Stooges would do something as stupid as ruining and flushing the entire creation down the toilet because Adam and Eve ate a forbidden apple thousands of years ago. Only the God of the Bible could be so stupid irrational unjust insane and cruel. This God has a habit of INDISCRIMINATELY punishing and killing good people and good innocent animals along with the wicked. It makes no difference to Him. He just blindly stupidly and recklessly punishes both man and beast. The other atrocities cruelties stupidities and injustices of this God of th Bible are too numerous to list here. I have listed them in other blogs. Do we as Christians really want to believe that God created everythingc just because the Bible says so? Think dear Christian. Why would you want to believe that God created cancer anthrax malaria ebola centipedes jellyfish tapeworms ticks fleas lice hurricanes tsunamis brown recluse spiders bullet ants stonefish birth defects human stupidity deformities( monstrous deformities where the face wnd the body of the afflicted person resembles a Halloween costume or something out of a horror movie in one of Nature's sick cruel jokes) excrement tooth decay and death? Ask yourself dear Christian if you really want to believe in a God who created or caused all these Natural Evils. Im frankly disturbed angered horrified and embarrassed and ashamed of a God who would create such horrors as cancer centipedes tooth decay and physical deformities. Unworthy of worship. Cancer and centipedes are what I would expect from a Devil or a demon and not from a loving God. Why did this God create more mouths than He can feed? Mass starvation continues. Ask yourself dear Christian if a loving God would throw the mass of humanity in an eternal torture chamber called hell with fire worms excrement suffocation demons and Satan? Yes human beings are sinful and many are pervertedly so but NOT all of us deserve to be thrown into an eternal torture chamber. Thereon are more merciful and humane ways to punish human sin than this. There are more intelligent and constructive ways to punish human sin than this. The idea of eternal torture as described by the Bible and as described by religion is MONSTROUS INHUMAN DIABOLIC FIENDISH SADISTIC CRUELTY BEYOND IMAGINING. A loving merciful God would not do this to so many of His creatures. Dear Christian I invite you to try for yourself an experiment. Stick your hand in a hot oven and see how long you can stand it. Then imagine if you can the horror of having ones entire body roasting in fire forever. Would a loving merciful God do something so horrific? Dear Christian ask yourself if Heaven as you imagine it could really be the wonderful loving and happy place it is. First of all I don't know if I want to spend eternity with a God as cruel insane stupid and NEGLIGENT as the God of the Bible who NEGLECTED His creatures in this earthly life by allowing eons of suffering death and evil. This God set us up to fail with free will and Adam and Eve. He set us up to be screwed. He orchestrated The Fall. He helped cause The Fall. He helped make it happen and He refused to forgive Adam and Eve. He refused to give His creation a second chance and instead chose to curse and punish the ENTIRE creation. He flushed the entire creation down the toilet. Is this the kind of God we want to worship? Personally I don't. I think Hes a cruel unreasoning ruthless irrational insane monster who has no common sense and who has no reasoning and who does not know how to forgive. Hes not all good. Hes not all wise. Hes not merciful. Hes not totally loving. Hes not just. Hes not even rational. Hes not even sane. Im more moral and more humane and Im wiser than this God of the Bible as are many other moral intelligent people. A dunce has more sense than this God of the Bible. Laurel and Hardy and the 3 Stooges have more sense than this idiot God of the Bible. Ask yourself dear Christian this: how can Heaven be a place of perfect love happiness and joy if not everyone will make it to heaven and if its your loved ones who didn't make it to heaven but instead are roasting like charcoals in hell? How could you be perfectly happy dear Christian up there in heaven when your loved one or your loved ones are not there with you but instead are in the other place with Satan? Think about it dear Christian. And for those pet lovers who are told that pets and animals will not go to heaven and do not have an afterlife how could we be happy in heaven without our beloved pet dogs cats birds and horses? Animals cant go to heaven argue many Christians because they weren't made in God's image. This is unreasoning. What about the thousands of human beings of which I am one who love their pets and who desire to be with their pets in the afterlife? A heaven without my beloved pets is less than a heaven. Its a privation and deprivation. Suffering is also being deprived of what you love and want. Dear Christian you need to examine your beliefs more closely. The traditional religious beliefs and Fundamentalism are more disturbing than comforting as far as Im concerned.

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      5 years ago

      The Bible needs to be examined more closely and objectively. How many believers are willing and able to follow everything the Bible says. That means anyone who works on the Sabbath and who commits adultery and who is an atheist or agnostic or who belongs to other religions the God of the Bible demands they all be put to death. Fornication adultery and disobedient children are also to be put to death according to the Bible. In the New Testament Jesus says don't marry and don't have sex and if one has lustful thoughts then he has to pluck out his eyes and cut off his hands. Insane and stupid? Yes. He tells us to hate our parents and to seek suffering and die for him to be a worthy disciple. It sounds like a cult such as Charles Manson and Jim Jones. Even when Jesus gives good moral advice he goes to ridiculous absurd extremes. He tells us to give to the poor which is good but he also tells us to give all our money away and all our clothes away to the poor. In other words we are to become utterly poor and without clothes ourselves. Unrealistic. Jesus as well as His father or God expects absolute obedience servitude blind worship blind unquestioning faith and they both expect us to suffer and die. Jesus expects us to live in total denial privation deprivation poverty misery servitude and martyrdom. How many people are able to live like this? How many people want to live like this? Were all to live like religious fanatics like Jesus. Were all to suffer like Jesus and were all to be perfect like Jesus and were all to be deprived like Jesus to be his worthy disciples. That means were expected to forget and forsake everything we love and need and every person we love and need to serve this egomaniacal God and His egomaniacal son Jesus. This is unrealistic and unreasoning. And biological drives and needs such as sex are to be denied. And Jesus tells us not to worry about our future. This is lousy unwise advice. So why bother doing anything that takes our attention away from this egomaniacal God and His egomaniacal son? This God and His Jesus wants our undivided attention and devotion. Selfish and self centered is this God. This God is an egomaniac who only cares about humams worshipping Him and keeping His commandments and believing in Jesus. This God doesn't care about the needs desires and welfare of His creatures. It doesn't matter how much we suffer to this God. Ruthless. The Bible also sanctions animal sacrifices in the Old Testament and other instances of cruelty to animals and the Bible sanctions slavery and encourages overpopulation which is irresponsible and unwise. The disgraced preacher Jim Bakker said something very revealing when he was condemned for spending so much money on amusement park rides and entertainment at his Heritage USA. He said that if he didn't have all these attractions and entertainment then not as many people would come to his ministry. That really says a lot to me. Jim Bakker may have been corrupt greedy and materialistic like so many other Christians but that admission really that not as many people would come to his ministry if he didn't have all those attractions reveals that Christianity BY ITSELF is not enough. Religion BY ITSELF is not enough. People need more and want more than what religion has to offer and Christianity by itself and religion by itself is not providing for the needs and desires of people. We need more to life than just religion. People have needs and drives and religion and Christianity is failing to provide for these needs and drives. Not all of us are able and not all of us are willing to live like religious fanatics.

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      5 years ago

      This God of the Bible is a cruel incomptetent screwup who cant do much of anything right. Cruelty violence killing and death are His ways. Just look at the loathsome story of the Hebrews being stuck as slaves in Egypt. When God finally decides to intervene and deliver the Hebrews He does it in a cruel despicable immoral diabolic stupid manner. He hardens Pharaohs heart and inflicts horrific plagues on the Egyptians. He punishes snd kills women and children because of Pharaoh and his slave traders. Why harden Pharaohs heart? Why do something so despicable? So He can punish the Egyptians WITHOUT MERCY and show what a mighty God He supposedly is. In reality it shows what a cruel nasty violent immature sick despicable insane monster He is. What a sick diabolic cruel and stupid way to deliver the Hebrews from slavery. And He drowns the pursuing Egyptians. The cruelty and stupidity doesn't stop there. The Hebrews are led by Moses through many miles of wilderness and desert with temperature extremes. Were talking extremes from 110 degrees to as low as in the 30s at night and there were no air conditioning and no heaters around. Venomous snakes scorpions centipedes spiders and venomous insects abound in deserts and the need for water and food were perennial problems. Along the way God punishes and kills thousands of His own chosen people just because they were complaining! Whew. What a God we have. With friends like this God who needs enemies? This God is selfish self centered a tyrant an egomaniac a lousy parent a ruthless monster an incompetent bungler who cant do much of anything right and an absentee landlord. And most disturbing of all is His cruelty.

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      5 years ago

      This God of the Bible is an irresponsible negligent unkind uncaring egomaniacal heartless bastard who doesn't care how much we suffer. All this egomaniac cares about is love Me and Worship Me and keep My commandments and suffer for me and believe in Jesus and believe in the Bible. So were expected to be religious fanatics and martyrs like Jesus. How realistic is this? I don't have a girlfriend and I suffer from intense loneliness and depression day after day and year after year. Im physically ugly mentally ill and Im shy with poor social skills. There is no hope for happiness for me. Plus girls and women are generally unfriendly unkind selfish vain aloof cruel. Its a cruel negligent God who allows me to suffer from endless loneliness. Irresponsible. Religious people take the opportunity to tell me that I should just forget about women and I should focus on God and Jesus. These people mean well but they are ignorant. My need for a female companion is still going to exist no matter what. Faith in God and Jesus Christ is not going to take the place of a female companion. Its not going to fill any void. Plus both God and Jesus are remote aloof disconnected and I don't feel their presence. Not even in church. Faith can move mountains and ask and you shall receive says Christ. What utter baloney. I have been asking God for years to help me. All I get is silence. We may as well be praying to a tree trunk. They also tell me I have to suffer like this because of free will and Adam and Eves sin. Execuse me preacher. Its not my will and its not my sin. How stupid cruel insane unfair and unjust for God to have Adam and Eves sin passed on to ALL FUTURE HUMANITY and to curse and punish THE ENTIRE CREATION for Adam and Eves sin. The creation was set up to be screwed by free will and Adam and Eves sin. This God has no common sense has no reasoning and does not know how to forgive. Ruthless merciless heartless brainless irrational insane unreasoning unfair unjust unwise unintelligent unkind unloving and unforgiving. This God has thrown His entire creation down the trash can because of free will and Adam and Eves sin. This God has ruined and flushed the entire creation down the toilet because of free will and Adam and Eves sin. This is immoral insane stupid and cruel. Its a travesty. So just screw your own creation punish it and neglect it and that's ok huh? No its not ok. This irresponsible negligent absentee landlord for a God has decided to abandon His creaures. He neglects us and allows us to suffer and die and He has allowed us to remain in our fallenness and sinfulness. Human nature isn't going to heal by itself and Nature's defects and cruelties isn't going to heal by itself.. God has to heal it. He has failed to heal it and continues to fail. And because this earthly life doesn't count according to religious folks and because our lives belong to God so its ok if God lets us suffer and its ok for God to allow whole sale killing and death. Im here to say its NOT ok. How dare this God sport with life. Did this God ever think of the disastrous consequences of what He was going to create? Did this God ever think or foresee the disastrous consequences that would occur with this exoeriment with free will and Adam and Eve? Did this God ever foresee the disasters that would occur by creating a cerfain angel who later turned evil and became Satan? Did God foresee all these evils and still go ahead anyway with His creating? This God is a moral monstrosity abomination. Ireesponsible negligent incompetent and cruel and almost certainly insane. And also stupid in my eyes. This God of the Bible cant do much of anything right. Bungle goof screwup. This God has thrown away my happiness and has thrown away my life down the toilet as He has done with COUNTLESS OTHER PEOPLE. Negligence and cruelty. Dereliction of duty. Ireesponsible. Im fuming angry. This is a CRIME. Allowing thousands to millions of years of suffering death and evil is a CRIME. Unworthy of worship. Its an embarrassment.

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      5 years ago

      The Biblical God and much of the Bible and nearly all religions are embarrassing to me. There are enough embarrassments about religion to fill up volumes. We have a cruel temperamental moody incompetent homicidal genocidal bloodthirsty unreasoning unjust jealous irrational insane egomaniacal megalomaniacal tyrannical irresponsible negligent God as described by the Bible who cant do much of anything right. He bungled with free will wnd Adam and Eve and He chose or allowed Adam and Eves sin to be passed on to ALL FUTURE HUMANITY and He cursed and punished ALL CREATION including innocent animals. This God is such a bloodthirsty brute and such an egomaniac that He conducted a sick test of faith with Abraham and Isaac. Isaac was let go but an innocent animal had to be sacrificed to appease this bloodthirsty God. He drowns the entire world with innocent animals in Noahs time and He kills people and animals left and right. He threatens His chosen people with cannibalism and mothers shall eat their babies. Sick and insane. He tells His chosen people to eat bread mixed with dung and to smear dung on their faces. He kills 70000 men because David took a census. He PUNISHES PUNISHES PUNISHES and His punishements are monstrous cruel inhumane and BEYOND WHAT WE CAN IMAGINE. The New Testament is full of more embarrassments and stupidity such as Jesus telling people to pluck out their eyes and cut off their hands and telling us to hate our parents. I come not to bring peace but a sword says Christ. That's one of his prophecies which have sadly come true as with the Crusades. As for his second coming and Rapture the world is still waiting. People have lived and died waiting for Jesus to return and he continues to fail to return. Hes coming soon? What a joke. Soon by what standards? Soon by geological standards. Certainly not soon by human standards. Natures cruelties defects and screwups are a HUGE EMBARRASSMENT as God is said to create everything and He allows everything. That means cancer tooth decay aneurysm hurricanes tsunamis centipedes jellyfish brown recluse spiders ticks fleas lice tapeworms birth defects etc are all God's creations as well as excrement. And all this hukan evil and cruelty has to come as a result of free will and Adam and Eves sin? This is insane and immoral and stupid. And if blame is going to be thrown at Satan and demons then the question is just pushed back too Why is God allowing Satan and demons to corrupt and ruin God's creation?Way too much human evil exists in the world. Its unacceptable to allow it. Im also embarrassed by those phony faith healers and those Jesus freaks. Praise the lord and Hahleluya and Give me that old time religion Give me that old time religion and Jesus Jesus. Jesus in the morning jesus in the evening which are all silly goofy songs. I have to blush for shame at the silliness and stupidity of religious people. Pedophilia in churches and greed for money and material wealth are more embarrassments. I think Im going to die from embarrassment by religion. Most embarrassing and most disturbing of all is evil and suffering in the world which this God allows. Thousands to millions of years of suffering death and evil is embarrassing disgraceful despicable insane cruel stupid and incompetence. This God is a negligent absentee landlord. This God is a dead beat God. Irresponsible. This God is a derelict God as in DERELICTION OF DUTY. This God refuses to provide for our needs and refuses to protect us from danger and refuses to help us and refuses to heal us. Embarrassing. Unworthy of worship. And if the mass of humanity is destined for hell in the next life thn that's another win for Satan and this makes God more of a monster. Its a nightmare and a horror movie.

    • profile image


      5 years ago

      When my poor father died from heart failure at a hospital my minister and a Catholic priest and nun were there. The priest and the minister started reading from the Bible. Im sure they meant well but this really angered me even more. Im in no mood to hear a Bible sermon under such horrible circumstances. As preachers they are doing what they feel is right. Im not so sure I can believe everything in the Bible and Im not sure that I want to believe it. There are a lot of disturbing horrible things in the Bible and there are many contradictions absurdities and errors and a lot of it is vague ambiguous unclear and incomprehensible. A lot of it embarrasses me. I have been told by my fundamentalist Christian aunt that my father did not make it to heaven because he did not believe every word of the Bible as does my aunt. So after suffering a hell on earth for years from a host of health problems such as dengue fever kidney stone heart attacks anginas severe toothache severe hernia a stroke which took away part of his memory and took away 90 percent of his speech and the heart failure which killed him my father is now in a real hell . I AM FUMING ANGRY. This is disgusting. My father had his faults but he certainly DOES NOT deserve to go to hell. Neither did he deserve all that physical suffering on earth. The stroke resulted in him talking gibberish and it was impossible to communicate. The last two months of his life was pure hell. Inside and out of hispitals. He required breathing tubes an oxygen machine diapers and urine bags and could not even get oit of bed. Round the clock he would scream and writhe in agony. He was slowly suffocating to death as the body was shutting down. Horrible. I don't know what kind of God allows this kind of suffering. Pure hell. And then the horrible task of making funeral arrangements. HORRIBLE. The decision to bury or cremate is also an agonizing one. They're BOTH EQUALLY HORRIBLE. EITHER WAY THE DEAD PERSON IS SCREWED AND EITHER WAY THE LOVED ONES WHO ARE LEFT BEHIND ARE SCREWED. A LOVING GOD WOULD NOT BE ALLOWING THESE HORRORS. A LOVING GOD CANNOT BE IN CONTROL OF THIS SCREWED UO WORLD. NOT IN MY BOOK. I am very angry with God. This God is an immoral monster who allows all manner of evil and suffering and he allows death the ultimate in horror. DISEASE IS THE CRIME AND THE CREATOR OF DISEASE IS THE CRIMINAL. If God didn't create diseases then who did?Why is God allowing it? This God is unworthy of worship.

    • profile image


      6 years ago

      Ive written before that this God of the Bible is full of contradictions and is a hypocrite. This God supposedly hates human sin and YET He is allowing it indefintely. Because free will is so damn important this insane God has tied his hands and refuses to intervene and refuses to prevent evil. This is insane sick and cruel. I cannot accept this kind of insanity and stupidity. Wars genocides the Holocaust the Inquisition the Witch Hunts the Crusades the World Wars the Korean War the Vietnam War the war in Lebanon Bosnia Serbia the genocides in Rwanda and the Congo the massacre of the Brazilian Indians the Iraqi War the 9/11 cataclysm the atrocities in Afghanistan school shootings the bloody disgraceful carnage by cars and motor vehicles massive oil spills etc etc all have to be allowed by this mentally questionable and morally questionable God. Sheer insanity. This experiment with free will Satan and Adam and Eve was and is a colossal disaster tragedy travesty error and screwup. Its a recipe for disaster and tragedy. And all creation has to suffer for Adam and Eves sin. This is a travesty!That's Adam and Eves mistake. Its NOT my my mistake. Its NOT my will. So I have to be born a sinner and I have to suffer and die and Im in danger of hellfire because of what two ignorant people(Adam and Eve) did thousands of years before I was even born. I had no part and I had no say in this Garden of Eden incident but I have to be punished anyway. This is cruelty injustice insanity. This God has flushed the enrire creation down the toilet because two ignorant people ate a forbidden fruit 6000 to 30000 years ago. This is the most asinine travesty I have heard in my entire life.And this God of Genesis Chapter3 refuses to forgive Adam and Eve and refuses to give them a second chance. As we read the Bible this God's cruelty irrationality injustice incompetence egotism negligence and hypocrisy and contradictions will become more apparent. This God is a lot more concerned with humans worshipping Him than in taking good care of us. As a result of this experiment with free will(I call it a tragedy and an error) the world is a hell and the afterlife is going to be a vastly worse hell for billions of people. This is disgusting despicable. This is a CRIME. This God cannot see sin in His cruel inhumane punishments. This God cannot see sin in the suffering and evil He allows and this God cannot see sin in His cruelty and negligence. If neglecting to feed the starving is a sin for us humans then why is it o.k. for God to allow starvation? Its not ok for God to allow starvation just as its not ok for humans to allow it. Its actually more heinous for God to allow it because were told this God is supposedly all good all mighty all knowing loving merciful. Well if He really is all these wonderful attributes why allow starvation? As a God and a creator then He is morally obligated to take good care of His creatures and it should be possible for Him to do things which us human beings are unable to do. What is this God's execuse for allowing mass starvation? What is His execuse for allowing horrible diseases? What is His execuse for allowing loneliness and depression? This God wont even or cant even help me get one decent girlfriend. This is criminal cruelty and criminal negligence. The free will defense is untenable for a God who is supposed to have all the fantastic attributes which traditional theism claims He has. The free will defense DOESN'T HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON. This God is deficient and I classify myself as belonging to Process Theology. Dystheism is one possibility. I prefer to call my belief Decicient Theism which is what Process Theology is and also describes the uncaring remote God of Deism and describes the cruel evil God of Calvinism and describes the morally ambivalent God of the Bible and describes the good but weak God of dualism and Gnosticism. Because of evil and suffering God has some kind of deficiency defect or limitation within Him. Not so good or not so moral or not so loving or not so wise or not so powerful. Im speculating that God is insane or there is a side to Him that is insane. There has to be some kind of deficiency within God. Otherwise its impossible to expain the evils cruelties miseries and horrors in the world. A God who allows Satan or the Devil to corrupt and ruin the creation is a deficient God. Satan the Devil rules this world. A loving God does not. Theres a lot to worry about.

    • profile image


      6 years ago

      Monstrous evils cruelties miseries and horrors occur daily in the world over thousands to millions of years of history and prehistory. Malaria continues to kill two million people a year in Africa. Other horrible diseases mass starvation hurricanes tsunamis predation human cruelty pollution crimes wars genocides and grievous accidents cause a hell on earth. And theres mental illness loneliness and depression. And animals suffer and die as much as or more than human beings. Animals have suffered and died for millions of years and many species have become extinct. Animals have been around a lot longer than humans. Venomous bites and stings from certain Spiders Scorpions Centipedes Snakes Stonefish and Weeverfish cause horrific torturous pain and other horrific symptoms such as nausea vomiting and difficulty breathing. A loving God would not be allowing such horrors. Car accidents cause carnage and pollution and both people and animals are injured and killed every day of every year that goes by. The ultimate in horror is probably premature burial. Both people and animals have been buried alive throughout history. In the Middle Ages and up to the 1800s an unknown number of people were buried alive in coffins vaults crypts and holes in the ground. Its possible to be buried alive in small cellars attics and refrigerators. Its a horrific fate beyond imagining. Suffocation and claustrophobia. When I die I will make sure to request all my vital organs to be removed such as the heart and brain. To find oneself waking up and being locked inside a coffin vault or crypt is a fate worse than death. Unimaginable horror. Unspeakable. I suffer from claustrophobia. The question is what kind of God allows such horrors? This is a CRIME to allow. This is INEXECUSABLE. A God who allows this is unimaginably cruel or something else is seriously wrong with him. Its a DEFICIENT God as I point out elsewhere. I live in fear. The world is a horror movie.

    • profile image


      6 years ago

      The Biblical God is an egotistical self centered irresponsible negligent parent. Hes a lousy horrible caretaker who deprives His creatures of their basic drives needs and desires. Countless people as well as animals are deprived of food water a home a mate. I don't have a girlfriend and I suffer from endless loneliness and this absentee landlord for a God allows it. All this God cares about is Love me and worship me and keep my commandments and believe the Bible(nobody really knows what the Bible is saying as its so vague ambiguous and full of contradictions.) This God has no moral obligation to help us or to heal us and has no moral obligation to provide for our needs and no moral obligation to protect us from danger. Hes a horrible lousy caretaker. We may as well be praying to a tree trunk. Irresponsible and negligent is this God. Were told by religious folks that this earthly life doesn't matter and that were to be deprived like Jesus and were to suffer like Jesus. Total abstinence denial privation deprivation poverty misery and martyrdom is what is expected from each person. This is so unreasoning and so out of touch with reality. Were all expected to be religious fanatics like Sainf Paul. Yes its easy for him to live in deprivation and its easy for him to have blind faith. But how realistic and how reasonable is it to expect ALL of us to be like Saint Paul? So take the crap in this life and you'll have paradise in the next life. What makes them so sure the next life will be a paradise? And Im not so sure that I want to spend eternity with a God who is as cruel and as negligent as the God of the Bible. What is heaven going to be like an eternal church service? Eternal hym singing and harp playing? Billy Graham says well be driving Cadillacs on streets of gold. These things don't appeal to me. I have no desire to drive Cadillacs on streets of gold or to walk on streets of gold. I just want to be with my beloved pets and my beloved family and to live without disease without toil without evil people and without death in a peaceful park like setting. I don't need gold in my heaven and I certainly don't need cars in heaven. I want a God who is caring understanding and who is moral as I understand morality. I don't want a God who is vastly different from me on a moral level. Im looking for a God whose morality and goodness is similar to mine. Unfortunately the Biblical God is a moral monstrosity and an Eldritch Abomination. Its not the kind of God I could be proud of.

    • profile image


      6 years ago

      For the last 18 years Im trying to figure out what kind of God would create or cause or allow eons of evil sin suffering death and extinctions. How does one explain such horrors as giant Centipedes and Brazilian Wandering Spiders which have venomous bites which cause horrific pain and sickness. These Devilish creatures are highly aggressive. Screw worm flies tapeworms and hookworms ticks fleas lice intense cold intense heat hurricanes tsunamis mass starvation human cruelty wars genocides grievous accidents and pollution alienation mental illness and loneliness abounds in the world. Some blame the Devil and demons. Set Angra-mainyu/Ahriman or Satan is the embidiment of evil. If that's the case then WHY is God allowing the Devil to corrupt and ruin the creation? Theres some kind of deficiency in God. Something is amiss. The world and all history and prehistory is a horror movie.

    • profile image


      6 years ago

      The Biblical God is a moral monstrosity and fiend. Full of contradictions cruel spiteful vain jealous egotistic unreasoning unjust irrational indiscriminate in His punishments irresponsible incompetent negligent insane and STUPID. He curses and punishes the entire creation for Adam and Eves sin. Cruel unjust irrational unreasoning unkind insane stupid ruthless merciless unwise and unforgiving. He punishes animals for the sins of human beings and allows Satan to torture Job for a vain immoral bet. Horrible diseases mass starvation centipedes hookworms hurricanes birth defects and deformities and other ills are all allowed by this so called loving God. Its embarrassing. And free will does NOT justify all this evil cruelty and misery in the world. Not in my book. The way this screwed up world is run resembles a horror novel or a horror movie. This is the plan of a monster and a fiend. This is the plan of an insane criminal lunatic. What kind of demon creates such horrors such as cancer ebola malaria strep throat yellow fever heart disease stroke aneurysm meningitis tooth decay and then allows these cruelties to torture and kill human and animal victims? Its disgusting disgraceful despicable and deplorable. Its a CRIME. Satan the Devil rules this screwed up world. A loving wise God does not.

    • Slarty O'Brian profile imageAUTHOR

      Ron Hooft 

      7 years ago from Ottawa

      I certainly do not believe in the christian version of god. I think nature qualifies as god if god is that which produced us.

      I would like people to think rationally about their god. I think live and let live is a great idea. But unfortunately fundamentalism wants to take over our lives, both Christian and islamic fundamentalism. Both are fanatical. That's worth fighting against.

      The average Christian doesn't get in to debates.

    • seamist profile image


      7 years ago from Northern Minnesota

      As I said before, I don't care how learned you are in the bible, there will always be unanswered question. Even the most religious have questions. For ever question a Christian is able to answer, another one will always pop up. In fact, I read a few years ago that even Mother Theresa struggled with her faith at times.

      Consequently, if you want to believe in God, I think you just need to accept that many questions will not have answers. If you don't want to believe in God, you have to search for answers that will ring true within.

      The one thing I don't understand is whether you believe in God or not, why do people fight about it? I believe to each their own.


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