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The Made Up Origin of Satan in the Day That god Blew a Lucifer Out of His Nose

Updated on June 21, 2009

Long long ago on a rock far away covered with fluffy white clouds and harp playing angels n stuff. . . . .

Oooops, excuse me. It couldn't be that long ago. In order to please the fundementalists we must keep it around 6000 years ago. And this rock AKA heaven must be situated right above earth. . .. . .Oh hell, Earth wasn't around yet for this Lucifer to be cast onto it. After all, Satan was already well established when he told Eve to eat the forbiddin fruit on what? The 7th or 8th day? Soooooooo. . . .. .. . ..never mind!!!

Anyhow, strike up the orchestra. Ladies and gentlemen, John Williams and the London Symphony will play the openning theme to this double trillogy of Oh Lucifer, You Devil. Damn, can I change the title now?

So where should we begin? Oh. ... . .

How has thou fallen from heaven, O howl, son of the dawn. Hewn down to the earth, O crusher of nations. (Talking about the king of Babylon,.)

Satan-Hellooooooo?? It's me Satan, that's being spoken of here. Get out of my way King of Babylon. I will now show the devine work of the KJ so as to set you heathens straight.

O Lucifer, son of the dawn.

We continue with the story of the Lugi. . . .excuse me, the Lucifer being blown to the earth.

Thou hast been in Eden, the garden of God

You know what? We are already into episode IV. We've already heard about the covering cherub and the draggon cast out of heaven and everything else that the church thinks it understands.

Let's go with episode one.

The Luciferion Menace (Start the orchestra again)

So a perfect cherub is created named Lucifer. He is perfect in every way. Know why? God made him perfect. There is no imperfection. . . . . except for that free will thing. We now learn that god will never be safe in eternity, because with all of those free wills floaten around, who knows who will next try to dethrone the all powerful. . . ..or maybe not so powerful because he made perfection with a flaw called free will. But the first to think of all of this was Lucifer, the perfect spoiled brat little nose cherub.

Lucifer-I am perfect in every way but I want more. I want to go above god (I'm using a whiny little voice for Lucifer dialoge). Huahahahahahahahaha!!

(Kinda reminds ya of the terminator movies, doesn't it? Man creates a bunch of damn robots that decide to take over the world. You'd think God would have seen this coming. But I digest.)

god-Uuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmm?? Lucifer?? What do you think you're doing there?

Lucifer-Hahahaha god, I am preparing to go above you and take one third of your angels with me. That should do it. I will be the new god. And you will be my slave.

god scratches his head and ponders, "does he realize that I am about to create a universe and planet with such finely tuned life forms as to blow evolutionists out of the water? And he thinks he can overthrow me? Perhaps when I created him I should have given him a workable brain with common sense".

But god plays along and says "Luci, if you try to do this I will throw you down on that planet there (with the help of my top angel, Michael) and there you will pass the time by trying to get all of humanity to join you.

Lucifer-Hahahaha, what's the name of that planet? Oh, I know, it's Uranus, isn't it? So, you're going to stick me into Uranus? Hahahaha.

god-No, that big gassy thing out there is Uranus. That is Earth.

Lucifer-Oh well, looks good. I'm gonna hang out in that garden there and pretend to be a snake. What's so bad about that?

At this point god gets a big bloated look on his face. He makes the Earth transparent, opens up a small portion of it, and points his backside towards it. He lights a match and blows a loud vibrating hot gas onto it (faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt!!), sending a flame right into the center of this green, fertil planet.

god-there will be your eternal dwelling if you defy me. Oh hell, what should I call it. Just give me time Luci, I'll think of a name for it.

Lucifer- Oh yeah, god? Well first, I'm gonna kick your ass!!

They fought hard and long. Lucifer (now Satan) whipped his tail around and caught god right in the noggin. god grabbed Satan and did an automic knee drop. But then Satan grabbed a hold of. . .. . .god's. . . ..uuuummm. . . .man hood and squeesed until god was able to sing that high note in the star spangled banner. But finally, god pulled out his lightsaber and cut Satan's hand off, freeing his throbbing stimulous package. He picked up Satan over his head and threw him down onto the Earth. (See, god had just invented gravity so that the Earth's mass would suck Satan right into it)

Epilogue for Episode III:

Satan paces the land. He looks up (where ya'll think heaven is? Down?) and says, I'll get you god. I will mess up your whole creation. First, I'll plant these dinosaur fosills and make people enjoy money and sex. I'll have plenty of company in hell. Huahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!! Oh, and God, guess what else I'm gonna do to your beloved humans to make sure they join me.

god-No Satan, you wouldn't!!

Satan-I'm gonna give them all a free will. Huahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!



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    • profile image

      Deny lizard 5 years ago

      I'm familiar with Ray's site... He's indeed gifted but its extremely easy to find a logical explanation for everything. religions do that all the time... ray found logical explanations in a flawed translation of the bible. That is his gift Especially when you believe so strongly in the bible. At best... We have copies of copies of copies of copies. .we can never be sure. As far as we know... Rays version...God deceives us all throughout history, with the intention of molding us into sons and daughters of God..and only focusing on the elect to help him rule the rest of the sheep. That doesn't sound like a good father to me. How would you feel abt being lied to your whole life by your actual dad and picking your brother as the elect to rule and make sure you submit? Something wrong with the story.. I would say God as a whole is learning and getting better with time. We are part of god like Blood is as much part of a body, we are evolving .... Eventually god will reach perfectness as we reach perfectness. All we need us perfect love... Not religion.

    • profile image

      lol 7 years ago


      All of you are a bunch of sheep. God is the true God. He loves everyone and is molding us in his Image. You would all rather worship someone who is always trying to deceive and has never told a single complete truth. Yall make me laugh.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 7 years ago

      It's kinda like what your dad used to say to you. You know, "I brought you into this world, I'll take you out" At least those people of the OT will eventually be saved. But yeah, they had to die. Glad this hub made you laugh. That's why I wrote it.

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      daughterofSatan 7 years ago

      All of you are a bunch of sheep.Father Satan is the true God. He loves His followers and grants us our desires. You would all rather worship someone who killed people in the old testament and told the jews it was alright to kill gentiles. Yall make me laugh.

    • profile image

      Ast 8 years ago

      "That's because your scraps are buried beneith a mountain of pig vomit."

      Haahhahahahahahahahahahaha oh gosh lolololol. I'm gonna remember that phrase for usage in the future, LOL.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Carrie, you have no power to turn anyone over. ALL is of God. God's power, not the devils, and certainly not your own and most certainly not your carnal church. Your postings are nothing more than heretical ramblings.

      It's really sad but it takes the mind of Christ to know that the blind and deceived are blind and deceived for a specific reason and that we have God's promise that the condition is only temporary.  Many a "christian" claims to have spiritual gifts from God that are only manifestations of their fleshly desires.  They want to appear to be Godly, so they "Teach" themselves how to speak in tongues.  None of their fleshly manifestations edify the church, they don't have 2 (two witnesses) members to translate.  Their pastor usually just lies and says he understand and it's some glorification to God which the opposite is true. 

      They refuse to recognize the rules that we are admonished to follow just so they can elevate themselves above others and attempt to appear more Godly when God is clearly showing others that they are foolish.  No scripture is of it's own interpretation.  This means that every scripture has 1 or more that compliments it.  Every scripture has 1 or more spiritual matches.  without a match, your scripture is untruthful.  There are no scriptures which state a rapture will occur and whisk away "christians" to save them from their make believe 7 years of tribulations as they meet Christ in the sky.  The Elect will meet Christ.  these are the FEW, not the MANY.  How many professing christians are there in the world today?  Millions.  Doesn't sound like the FEW to me and it's not truthful study to state otherwise.

      Ms Bradshaw's vanity keeps her posting her nonsense because of her pride.  Carrie opposes and exalt herself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that she sets herself up in God's temple, proclaiming herself to be God.

      Carrie doesn't understand that since Jesus is the Savior of the world, and by his death and resurrection, he succeeded in SAVING The World.  That includes everyone in their order.  We are given the physical example of the ritual of the Harvest to explain the spiritual process in which God will SAVE ALL.  Carrie and other Christians do not need to save anyone, Jesus has already SAVED The World.  But her pride opposes and exalts herself above God's rules and laws.  She by way of her conscience has set herself up in God's temple (each person is God's temple) proclaiming that she is God because she feels that she can do whatever she wants independent of God's will.  She claims that God has no control over her or her actions, yet she still sins.  If she has so much self control over everything that she does, then clearly she and others like her should be able to stop sinning and never sin again.  The reality is.. that she can not... WHY?  Because God is in control of ALL things, including her.  God directs each step she takes, God has numbered every hair on her head.  God has blinded her and hardened her heart, as He did to Pharaoh.  Since God has told us that He changes not, then clearly we can understand that he operates in the same exact manner today.

      Carrie & others like her refuse to accept these truths and calls any who do, "twisted and of the devil".  She makes excuses for her words and actions and blatantly disregards scriptural truths when they are shown her.  Honestly, it's not all of Carrie's fault.  God has blinded her to His truths.  WHY?  Because at this time, it is not for her to know, it is for those that Christ has called to be His few disciples, His Elect, His First Fruits.  These FEW will know.  Jesus tells us that no one can come to the Father by their own free will. These FEW only come to the Father when they are called/dragged by the Father.  Carrie thinks she is the exception to God's Laws/rules.  She attempts to serve two masters.  she attempts to follow the physical fleshly rituals of the 10 commandments and also attempts to follow her own definition of the new covenant which is spiritual NOT physical. It is not a recycled covenant Carrie.  Jesus said the words I speak to you are spirit.  Jesus changes not.  So we know He is the same today as He was then.  The new covenant is spiritual, not physical Carrie. the flesh profits nothing, yet you continue to promote fleshly rituals and outward manifestations of the flesh.

      God's truth is really quite simple once He has opened your eyes & ears and called you to His truths.  The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God.  What is wisdom to this world?  Free Will.  What else?  That Satan has thwarted God's plan and God is powerless to do anything until a certain time period.  That some people go to heaven and some to hell.  All FALSE doctrines.  We are told that no one has ascended to heaven.  This has NOT changed since Christ's time on earth.  Carrie thinks she knows different.  Her carnal tongue speaking behavior has told her so.  Unfortunately, her beliefs and fleshly rituals are contradictory to God's Word.

      Carrie reminds me of those evangelicals who are portrayed in the movie "Jesus Camp" where they take young children and attempt to brainwash them by "Teaching them to speak in tongues which is nothing more than gibberish ahh lalalala God, alll laa gurgle God, lalalalal gurgle, spit God".  This is NOT speaking in tongues.  This is nothing more than a carnal display of the flesh.  While it is wonderful to see children interested in learning about God's Word, these evangelicals attempt to take over the role as God and lead these children astray by false doctrines and made up scriptures such as the Rapture theory and Heaven and Hell doctrines. 

      Carrie promotes her own beliefs vs doing actual study to show herself approved.  She mistakes her own hate for others and claims others persecute her.  She pronounces curses on others yet others tell her they pray for her out of love.  It is plainly obvious to anyone who reads these postings who truly has the mind of Christ in them.  The Spirit of Christ does not hurl curses and tell people they are of the devil.  Christ tells us to turn the other cheek to our enemies which means once they have abused one side, you give them the other side to abuse.  We are admonished to love our enemies as God does.  Not condemn them to some make beleive fiery pit of eternal torture which has been PROVEN without a doubt by many bible scholars to be a false doctrine.  Those that continue to promote and follow this false doctrine do so out of their own carnal heart.  They want to condemn others to hell and think themselves worthy of a Heaven.  They contradict themselves time and time and we are admonished to EXPOSE those that Contradict... and we do.

      In the end, it doesn't matter if some continue to follow the same beliefs as Carrie.  WE understand that it is God who is in control of ALL and at the time He has chosen, and yes, Carrie will one day understand.  All any of us can do is present truthful scripture and pray God will open a person's eyes and ears as He has done for those of us who are on the journey of being granted truthful knowledge from God.

      It's highly doubtful Carrie prayed for you goldentoad, you didn't tithe 10% to Carrie's church, prayers in Christianity are not free, as the catholic church did in days past, you must pay for absolution as well as any honest prayers from most christians like Carrie.

      That's not how God operated in times past and it's certainly not how He operates now in the present.  God's will will be done, not Carrie's as she claims over and over again that it is her will that is #1 important, not God's will and she can do whatever she wants whenever she wants and God can't do anything to stop her.

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      Also I have to say, when one says they are going to pray for you, when you didn't request it, that's bad manners in my book. That's like some twisted condescending way of saying "I feel sorry for you, because you don't got it like me". But no worries on my part, as I have very little feelings, if any about it. Also it should be noted Carrie, your prayer for my financial provisions left me without a paycheck today as my boss headed out of town on an early vacation. So ppppplease don't pray for me again....

      Now can we all get naked and do it?

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      Carrie, enough already!! If you've shaken the dust so to speak, why do I still see your self righteous mug on my hubs? I don't believe you have any gifts of the spirit and even if you speak in some unknown tongue, it ain't from God. You're as blind as a cave fish. I welcome the atheists to continue their dialoge because at least they have a sense of humor. They also don't believe in your sick, disgusting, fable of a hell. So right there, my respect for them is higher than it is for you. They need to explore some of the problems with godless naturalism and then perhaps they will be given some truth. But any truth given to them will be more profitable than what miniscule scraps you have been given up to this point. That's because your scraps are buried beneith a mountain of pig vomit. Continue your pursuit of God but turn away from the false wisdom of this world.

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      Can we all just take off our clothes now and start doing it?

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      I choose not to respond to you JL.  I do not possess ALL the gifts, but do have this one, and yes, LOVE is the most excellent way.  NO argument there.  Paul was not speaking purely of himself, but admonishing the church (those who give their bodies to be burned, etc.)  Why don't you get off Hell No's hubs and write some of your own?  Enough said.  I have shaken the dust from my feet regarding you.  "Turn such an one over to the devil for the destruction of the flesh that his soul MIGHT be saved in the last day."  I, as part of the Christian church, turn you over.  AMEN.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA


      Next, notice what Paul instructs us in verse 6:

      "Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with languages, what shall it profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?"

      If your teaching is not by revelation, knowledge, prophesying, or doctrine, "what shall it profit you," Paul asks? Nothing else is acceptable. But is this what the tongue-speakers of the world are actually doing. Are they speaking to the entire congregation by "revelation, knowledge, prophesying, or doctrine," or are they babbling gibberish into the air, in which case NO ONE IS EDIFIED? And the whole endeavor is but an exhibition of the FLESH?

      Paul continues:

      "And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet gives an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?" (Verses 7-8).

      Having been in the Marines for 8 years, let me explain this: If an army is preparing for battle, and they are all waiting for the trumpet to sound the charge, but instead, the trumpeter sounds "taps," then instead of charging the enemy, the army will GO TO SLEEP!

      It is necessary that the trumpet make the proper sound. Nor is preparation for battle the time for a trumpeter to be practicing on his horn. It is likewise, necessary for one who speaks in a language, to be understood.

      Paul attempts to make it ever clearer:

      "So likewise you, except you utter by the language words easy to understand, how shall it be known what is spoken? For you shall speak into the air" (Verse 9).

      Is that the way you tongues-speakers wish to glorify your Lord and Saviour? By speaking nonsense into the air?

      According to you Carrie, you claim to be speaking in a tongue that glorifies God, yet according to Paul, your speaking nothing but hot air. Who are we to believe Carrie? You or Paul?

      I'm going with Paul. Your fleshly ringside show is nothing more than the outward display of your carnal desires. Yet again, you have been shown where you err but you refuse to believe it yet again.

      God is not the author of confusion Carrie, but apparently your tongue speaking is.

      My heart truly goes out to you because I remember what it was like to be likewise deceived. But I also know how truly wonderful it is when God grants you his blessing along with His chastisement which opens your eyes and ears. You do understand that God's chosen are chastised... not blessed with riches as you have been praying for Carrie. You do understand that God's FEW are those that are despised and not thought of highly don't you Carrie?

      God's FEW Are not advertising Glamour Shots in their profiles and praying for blessings of money for themselves and others so that they can spoil their flesh. God's FEW are constantly in prayer. We pray for knowledge and wisdom and humility. There is no love in your posts Carrie. Paul tells us that the best gift from God is LOVE because it never fails. Where is your love Carrie? Is it hidden behind your claims of me twisting Scripture and being of the Devil?

      We pray that those who do not know His truths are granted the same eyes and ears as those who do know His Truths. The FEW are not required to save anyone, since Christ has already done so when He Died on the Cross and was TRULY DEAD and Resurrected. Jesus did not go to some mythical HELL full of fire and torment. He was DEAD, he knew nothing! God the Father raised Him but He was DEAD. The dead know NOTHING and apparently neither do you based upon what you have been posting, that much is truly clear.

      I and others are honestly praying that God allows you to gain understanding of His Good News. I can't imagine anyone going to such great lengths if they didn't truly want to be saved. But you are simply misguided.

      It is not I who is cursing you and making false claims of twisting the Scriptures, and calling you of the Devil like you enjoy saying of me. Ignorance is not Bliss Carrie and saying you're ignorant is not mean. We all were at one point in time until God dragged us to Him. We didn't CHOOSE God, He CHOOSES US. Again, no free will Carrie like you claim. Stop fighting God's word so that your carnal mind can be satisfied.

      May God grant you the wisdom to SEE & HEAR His Truths as He has done for The Few, so you can truly be set Free from the MANY.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Will Carrie understand God's Word regarding her claim of speaking in tongues? Doubtful. There is no misunderstanding Paul’s admonition. Yet how many will OBEY Paul’s admonition?

      You do know that we are given specific admonishments to follow in regards to speaking in tongues Carrie?

      The flesh profits no one Carrie so why do you insist on continuing to do fleshly rituals?

      In I Cor. 12:29-30, we are told something amazing, something that totally contradicts the tongues-speakers claim that the gift of speaking in languages is absolutely necessary as a proof that one actually has God’s Holy Spirit:

      "Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? Do all speak with languages? Do all interpret?" (Verse 29-30).

      Actually these are not even questions in the Greek, but rather statements of fact. Notice the following translations:

      "Not all [are] Apostles. Not all [are] prophets, Not all [are] teachers. Not all [have] powers. Not all [have] the graces of healing. NOT all are speaking languages, Not all are interpreting" (Concordant Literal New Testament)

      "All are not Apostles; all are not Prophets; all are not Teachers; all are not Powers; all have not Gifts of Cures; all do NOT speak in different Languages; all do not interpret" (Emphatic Diaglott).

      There is no need to place a question mark after these statements of fact. Obviously not "all" are apostles, and likewise, "all do NOT speak in different languages."

      And furthermore, Paul already told us in verses 8-10, that to ONE is given this gift and to ANOTHER a different gift, but not all get all the gifts. Speaking in a language is not the only sign of one having God’s Holy Spirit.

      Then after giving us two separate lists of spiritual gifts, Paul tell us this:

      "But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you A MORE EXCELLENT WAY" (I Cor. 12:31).

      What could be more excellent than any or all of these gifts of the Holy Spirit? Answer: LOVE!

      "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity [love] , I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I AM NOTHING. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profits me nothing.

      Charity [love] suffers long [is patient], and is kind; charity envies not [is not jealous]; charity vaunts not itself [doesn’t brag or boast], is not puffed up, does not behave itself unseemly [not immoral], seeks not her own, is not easily provoked, thinks no evil; rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things [all God’s Truths] hopes all things [that are promised in God’s Word], endures all things. CHARITY NEVER FAILS…"


      And so, spiritual gifts are fine, but LOVE is the "MORE excellent way." Some, however, go so far as to suggest that the language that Paul and tongue-talkers speak is: "the tongues/languages… of angels" (I Cor. 13:1). Paul absolutely never claimed to speak in any such thing as the "languages of angels." Here is what he said, and the reason I underlined it above:

      "Though… I speak with the tongues [languages] of men AND ANGELS…"

      Well we know that he did speak with the languages of men, but he adds, "AND angels," which he decidedly did not do, hence the word "though." The word "though" in this context means "suppose." It is a supposition, not a fact.

      Paul also said, "though… I have… ALL knowledge," but did he? No."though I have… ALL faith," but did he? No. "though I… give my body to be BURNED" but did he? Obviously not—Paul was beheaded in Rome. And no, he never spoke with the languages of angels either it was a hypothetical statement made to prove a point.


      "Follow after LOVE, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that you may prophesy [speak under inspiration of God’s Spirit]. For he that speaks in a tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM; howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries" (I Cor. 14:1-2).

      Paul told the Corinthians that [1] they should desire spiritual gifts, [2] for the purpose of prophesying, because [3] no one understands what he is saying if he speaks in a language. So is it a good thing to speak in a language if no one understands you? NO, of course not. Next Paul says, "BUT…" But what? If speaking in a language is not a good thing to do if no man understands what you are saying, then WHAT IS GOOD? Well, Paul answers:

      "BUT he that prophesies [is inspired of God to speak in the language of the congregation] speaks unto men to EDIFICATION, and EXHORTATION, and COMFORT [consolation]" (Ver. 3).


      Paul continues in Verse 4:

      "He that speaks in a tongue [language] edifies himself [well that’s a selfish thing to do!] BUT he that prophesies [is inspired to teach by God’s Spirit in the language of the congregation] edifies THE CHURCH [now that’s the unselfish thing to do]."

      Paul again admonishes them by saying:

      "I would that you all spoke with tongues, BUT RATHER [here is Paul’s instructions as to HOW this gift is to be properly used] that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesies than he that speaks with languages, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying" (Verse 5).

      Now Paul gives us the one "exception" clause which will put "speaking in a language" on equal footing with "prophesying"—that is inspired teaching in our own language. And what is that one thing that is absolutely necessary for speaking in a language to be acceptable in the congregation of God’s Church? Someone must be able to INTERPRET what the person said in a foreign language. What if there is no interpreter present?

      "But if there be no interpreter, LET HIM KEEP SILENCE IN THE CHURCH" (verse 28).

      There you have it. Speaking in tongues is fine, IF, and only if, "except he INTERPRET" so that the whole church receives "edification, exhortation, and consolation." This teaching is clear.

      This teaching is simple. There is no misunderstanding Paul’s admonition. Yet how many will OBEY Paul’s admonition?

      I highly doubt Carrie, that your tongue ramblings have been interpreted by 2-3 other members and that your ramblings have been for the edification of the church.

      In fact I can pretty much guarantee that you have not followed the rules regarding speaking in tongues because you don't believe there are any rules you must follow. You think you have your own free will to do as you please. By your own statements, your speaking in tongues is nothing more than your wanting and needing attention. You do it of your own free will.

      If you have such amazing free will Carrie, then why not stop sinning? You can do it if you have your free will. You can stop sinning anytime you want with your free will you can do ANYTHING.

      So stop sinning Carrie.

      What's that you say? You can't? Why not? I will tell you why.


      It is God's Will that you continue to sin to show you that you are powerless without God to do anything. You can't even take 1 step without it being God's will.

      You think rambling in a unknown tongue makes you appear more Godly in front of others. Another manifestation of your carnal fleshly desires and attempting to call it being blessed by God.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      Okay, here's my own words (had to quote scripture so it's not my own words regarding spiritual issues that are critical):

      How are people trained to recognize a counterfeit bill?  Do they study all the counterfeit bills out there?  That would be overwhelming.  They are trained by KNOWING the TRUE BILL perfectly in order to recognize counterfeit.

      There is no gain in studying this doctrine because to me, trained in utilizing the study tools and having a personal relationship with my Jesus Christ, and experiencing His miraculous gifts of the Spirit (and a note JL ~ how many times does the Bible say "the" Spirit ~ so "a" Spirit is still prefaced with an article and I don't contest that God is Spirit), does not exhort me to study counterfeit Christianity or whatever church or name these people call themselves.

      To read up on my miraculous experiences, you are invited (again, your choice, your will) to read my hub "Interpretation of the Spiritual Gift of Tonges" and an example of the actual miracle in the hub called "A True Life Miracle".

      Goldentoad, I did pray for your financial provision last evening. Somehow, I think you are the "guy who actually does believe in God" you mention above, and there is absolutely no argument with you...feel free to continue communication on my site, if you would like.

      Most respectfully, Carrie

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      More verses! Aren't you sick of looking them up? Its almost like a computerized answer, or sequence. C'mon Carrie, got anything else besides that?

      Show me some real human emotion and individual thought. The problem is your debate only reflects your side, you must join the thought of the combatant in order to undermine his objectives... if he has any. Because next thing you know you might be arguing with a guy who actually does believe in God, has read the bible, and is only pulling your leg to get you to give him more attention.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      If you need provision, Jehovah-Jireh (the LORD Provides) will bring it to you! 1 John 5:14-15 "And this is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him." I did pray for you and will continue to ~

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      Thank you for praying for me but I don't think that will work in life but if you got some money you would like to send me, I think that will actually do something.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      I would gladly send you a Bible (the King James Version and New American Standard), Strong's Concordance, and a Bible Dictionary. However, just as God sent us salvation through His Son, Jesus, not everyone will "read the Word (Jesus is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us". This is proof of the "free will" of man. Should you change your mind, any local Christian book store will have these items for you. I will pray for you, Goldentoad.

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      You want to just send me the bible? It might be easier than copying and pasting verses all night. I have to warn you though, I've already read it once and have no intentions of reading it again.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      He IS the hungry children! Matthew 25:35-40 "For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger; and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me."

      37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink?  And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?  And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?"

      40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me."  AMEN.

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      What for? He gots it made up in his mansion in heaven. He doesn't have to deal with hungry kids here on Earth.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      Jesus wept. (John 11:35)

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      Everyone should remember that God has the greatest sense of humor otherwise he wouldn't have created us.

    • profile image

      Whikat 9 years ago

      LOL, The Article itself was funnier than Hell :-)

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      You don't believe anything that Jesus said. It's time for you to move on.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      I won't be laughing to see the fate of anyone that mocks God and His children. I don't think the Lord rejoices in iniquity (Love doesn't do that). What a great price Jesus (God) paid for you who are casting lots for His clothing at the foot of the cross. Truly He loved you enough to at least petition His Father, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." Somehow, I think you know exactly what you're doing and are without excuse. AMEN. (Hey, instead of staples, why not get nails to crucify?)

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      I'm gonna need more staples for Carrie's wide spit factory. She talks about casting pearls at swine when she's been rumaging through the feces of modern day babylon with Dent.

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      I'm betting you'll come back....God's people lose this battle!

      Uncle Satan's team wins!

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      Sir Dent ~ PRAISE GOD you are here in this "wicked place"!! God came to save sinners and commissioned us to follow in His footsteps, to be "fishers of men". However, God also tells us not to cast our pearls (greater) before swine (hogs), lest they turn and trample them under their feet (Matthew 7:6). It's something how "swine" is also shown in the Bible as the dwelling place of the demons called "Legion" (Mark 5:12 and Luke 8:32). Makes me wonder about this deadly "swine flu" (not scriptural, but just a thought...) Good to see you here, SirDent!

    • profile image

      SirDent 9 years ago

      Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. 

      I have nothing else to say here.

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      I don't have to try to shut you up Sir Dent if I already tuned you out.

      Thanks for the bible verse, I always enjoy people wasting their time doing that. Like I actually read them.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      Hey GT. You hold Dent, and I'll get the stapler. We'll get that trap to shut.

    • fortunerep profile image

      fortunerep 9 years ago from North Carolina

      Goldentoad, the weed you are smoking is laced with the I'm a jerk gene.  But, I am behind you 100 percent, blah blah blah and so on and so on.  Talk about a buzz kill, The mention of God stirs so many people up. They drag out their Bibles and start rewsearching or google it for the sake of an argurment.  Somebody's gotta do it. Lucifer is narcissistic, my new favorite word


    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      Oh, don't be so hard on yourself goldy. You'll repent. . . . eventually.

    • profile image

      SirDent 9 years ago

      As I said GT. we all live by the choices we make. If you think using profanity will shut me or any other child of God up, you are mistaken.

      Isa 10:4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is

      stretched out still.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      Well, well, it's my number one fan Sir Dent. It's funny you would mention Oprah's line when that is exactly what Christians teach with their free will fiction. You might actually understand what is going on when God's word speaks of the King of Babylon being cast down to Sheol if you realized that God is in complete control. The King of Babylon was deluded into thinking he was his own god. He was in his own heaven.

      The churches make up so much crap daily, it is they who are their own gods. But keep the faith Dent. That scoundrel you met at the bar that you don't like must surely be headed to your beloved hell.

    • Teresa McGurk profile image

      Sheila 9 years ago from The Other Bangor

      Well. Now I'm howling. But some of the comments were very entertaining, weren't they? It's such fun to see how people willfully misunderstand each other.

    • profile image

      SirDent 9 years ago

      It is easy to joke about such things. It is easy to say you can handle it. Words are cheap. It is when the rubber meets the road thatone will repent. There is a point when repentance will no longer be accepted.

      Repent, before it is to late.

      A young man of about 30 tyears of age died in an auto accident close to where I live last night. Saved or not I do not know. If he was not saved, then he will get no more chances. Such a sad thing to think about.

      We all live by the choices we make. Some choose righteousness, others choose condemnation.

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      I think I am related to Hell No then, maybe a cousin.

      Satan could be my uncle.

    • profile image

      SirDent 9 years ago

      God's word will not return void. It will accomplish what it is set to do. Even as Noah preached for a hundred years that a fllod was coming, for over two thousand years the return of Christ is preached, and yet few believe it.

      Hell no, according to what you teach and preach, you are of Satan. He is your father. You do not teach or preach the Word of God.

      I read something on one of oyur hubs (this may be the one), about how Luicifer was created by someone around 500 AD. WHose word did you use to find that information out?

      You should repent now before it is too late for you and all those who believe what you say. As Oprah Winfrey would say, "You are your own god."

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      I can handle hot. I was born in Arizona. I go to the bathroom here at work, its one of those plastic portable deals(construction), its gotta be a 120 in there, no bullshit, but add the aroma, and I think I know I can survive just about anywhere.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      "Or something cool", goldy? I don't know, I hear that hell is pretty hot. But I learned from Carrie that there'll be beautiful music in hell so at least I'll be happy there.

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      It usually is. I haven't seen anyone change their opinion of God the whole time I have been here. I wonder how many words are wasted each day here by this topic? zillions probably.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      I'm a proud sinner, too ~ a SAVED one. No one can "cast you to hell" but God. Ask, and you shall receive! (just kidding). Yes, this has been a lot of wasteful banter; I agree.

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      This shit is still going on!!!

      Can someone throw a bible verse at me??

      I am a proud sinner. Cast me to Hell or something cool.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      I will not continue this bantering back and forth. I do not agree that your doctrine is anywhere close to the truth and basically, your father has indeed deceived you, oh "God's" (if that's what you claim) elect ~ successfully. As far as rudeness, yes ~ that's of the flesh. As Michael said to the devil in Jude 1:9, "The Lord rebuke you." AMEN.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      oh Carrie.  Do you read what you write?  You say "You may very well be one of the FEW elected officials to lead the choir in that subterranean retreat called Hell."   Yet you claim you are a christian?  *Shudders*  You are quick to point out the rudeness of others but not acknowledge your own.

      Again you twist what people post.  I never said anything about "having no accountability for those rejecting Christ and even for Satan himself in that they simply need to 'get their spanking' and then skip along on the golden streets of Heaven would certainly result in feeling "amazingly good." 

      Again, do you read what you write?  Do you even read what people post or do you let your carnal heart lead your hand.  I almost laughed at your statement about "those who share your twisted views are addressed with many of the same scriptures I've quoted."

      Carrie, you have not presented a accurate scripture in any of your posts.  What you have presented are half truths, man based lies and inventions taking away from the glory of God.  YOU have been presented accurate scripture yet you refute it ignorantly.  There is no harmony in your scriptures/doctrine.  You post nothing more than the idols of your own heart.

      Clearly your doctrine is not the correct one when you state:

      God conquered Satan when Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose again.  This is where the serpent's head was crushed (prophesied in Genesis 3:15).

      GOD NEVER HAD TO CONQUER SATAN! GOD CREATED SATAN, GOD IS ALL-POWERFUL. Why can't you believe that? Satan answers to God, not the other way around. God controls Satan, not the other way around. God led Jesus up to the mountains to be tested by Satan, yet you think God finally crushed Satan when Jesus died? Satan is still as alive as ever and still doing what God created him to do, Dine on Mankind, Test Mankind. Satan will not have souls to call his own in some fiery pit in the center of the earth. Satan will be thrown into the Lake of fire which IS GOD and cleansed as will everyone else who is in the 2nd Resurrection. Death will be abolished IN the Lake of Fire.

      -In God's Humble Service


    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      Regarding your second of two comments above, JL, you state, "When and IF God does show you his truths... it's an amazing feeling."  I'm sure this "feel good" feeling of having no accountability for those rejecting Christ and even for Satan himself in that they simply need to 'get their spanking' and then skip along on the golden streets of Heaven would certainly result in feeling "amazingly good."

      Joel Osteen doesn't even want to touch on the subject of Hell. He's a "feel good" kind of preacher, and sure enough He has the largest church in the world.

      I bet it's difficult to preach what you preach ~ I'm glad to see that God truly does "chasten (discipline) those whom He loves".  I know God loves you, and it appears you love God.  I don't apologize for my beliefs and don't expect you to do so either.  We simply have doctrinal differences and so it will remain.  AMEN.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      JL: You accused me of the following: "You give Satan power over God by stating that God cannot control or conquer Satan."  I never said that.  I even went so far as to state that God gave Satan the "permission" to persecute Job, yet God also limited Satan in that he could not take Job's life.  God conquered Satan when Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose again.  This is where the serpent's head was crushed (prophesied in Genesis 3:15).  And the LOF is reserved (has a permanent reservation written in the BOOK) for Satan and his angels.

      I believe I'm understanding you to state that the "elect" and the "few" are one in the same?  You state, "Because the general population does not believe God as I and the few others do."  This appears it is not I who claims to be one of God's "elect" or "few", but you are blatantly stating so.  You should not be stating it is I who is "egocentric".

      I've read a few other hubs where those who share your twisted views are addressed with many of the same scriptures I've quoted.  You do have a choice.  You CHOOSE to believe what you believe.  You may very well be one of the FEW elected officials to lead the choir in that subterranean retreat called Hell.  I do honestly think you want to believe you are saved.  If you believe Jesus is God in the flesh and He died for your sins, and you confess your sins and allow His Spirit to live through you, then you indeed are saved.  Doctrinal error does not make one lose his/her salvation.  We will understand all things upon Christ's return (1 Corinthians 13).

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Guess what?  Only GOD can show you the truth.  Not me, Not Hell No, Not Hope, no one.

      I can tell you this.  When and IF God does show you his truths... it's an amazing feeling.  You will then understand so many things you never thought possible.  But if you think that life gets easier, you’re wrong.  If you think life is hard now, imagine it so much worse.  By accepting the truths that God reveals, you accept judgment on you, your life every day.  Grace is chastisement and it is not always pleasant.  If you are not being tested/judged in paramount ways on a regular basis then you are not being chastised and therefore not of the Elect.

      Joel Osteen’s feel good preaching is unscriptural where he claims God wants everyone to be rich and happy.  Joyce Meyers is unscriptural, Billy Graham is unscriptural, Benny Hinn is unscriptural, Crefto Dollar is unscriptural, Kirk Cameron is unscriptural, and sooo many others.  Not one of them preach the truth about God.  TBN is nothing more than the money pits within the Synagogues of Jesus’ time.

      You will not find the truths of God and the Scriptures in any religion. That fact that you hold dearly to so many unscriptural beliefs is proof that at this time, God has not seen fit to open your eyes and ears. But don't feel bad, there are only a few that He has done this for through the ages. The LOF is not some pit that burns. the Lake of Fire IS GOD. God is a consuming Fire. The Lake of Fire is made up of Fire and sulfur and brimstone. Did you know that these are cleansing agents? They don't burn.. AT ALL. Since God is SPIRIT, then guess what, the Lake of fire is Spirit too! But it is a fearful thing to fall into the Hands of God. Being purges/cleansed of our carnal ways within the lake of fire will not be pleasant but it is needful in order to SAVE ALL. The Elect will be the only ones who will be the firstfruits after Christ, they will be invited to the wedding feast. They will judge angels and the rest of mankind within the lake of fire. Then when all is purged, then death will be thrown into the lake of fire and death will cease to exist and we will all be living in a state of deathlessness/immortality.

      I notice you end with forever and ever amen. God is Eternal. Time is not. There is no such thing as forever and ever. That is another unscriptural doctrine that was injected into the scriptures.

      There has been much honest study proving these facts. Everything that has been presented to you is TRUTH. Everything I have presented is in 110% harmony with the entire Scriptures. Harmony, not contradiction or confusion. Do you understand what harmony means?

      My posting is truly done in LOVE, all others should be measured by it.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Ms. Bradshaw, you are correct only in that I should not have spoken to you that way and I apologize.

      But I see time and time again in your postings where you twist what others have posted and make it sound completely unintelligent.  Now, whether or not you’re doing this on purpose I cannot say but it doesn't justify my previous comments so again I apologize in the manner in which I spoke. 

      However, the Great Commission is not to SAVE Souls for Jesus.  It is to spread the good news.  Burning in Hell for all eternity (a word that was not even known or used in Jesus' time EVER) is not the good news.  It's a doctrine of the devil.

      You stated no one can serve two masters.  That is indeed very true.

      I make this charge to you, you cannot serve two masters.  You quote unscriptural nonsense that directly contradicts God's Word and say it's true.  You give Satan power over God by stating that God cannot control or conquer Satan.  You claim Jesus is our Savior BUT only for those that CHOOSE Him.  Well we do have the ability to make choices.  That is very true.  God gave us a brain and we use it.  But our Hearts are what control our actions and thoughts and our hearts are enmity to God.  Also our choices are NOT free from outside influence.  God is in control of ALL.  God directs every man/woman's steps.  This is not a contradiction.  You must have the mind of Christ to understand these truths.  The Bible is NOT a book that anyone can read and understand.  It is not meant for everyone to understand; only the Elect will understand God's Word.  Jesus plainly stated this on the Mt. Sermon.  For YOU it is made know.  For them it is NOT.  Those that do honest study will find harmony in all the scriptures.  If 1 scripture contradicts another then it is not true.  You must have at least 2 witnesses to every scripture and EVERY scripture must match perfectly.  Not forced to fit as so many within Christianity do.

      I realize that there is much desire to know God's Word.  But this does not mean that God has to give you what you ask for.  As unfair as you may think this is, God is no respecter of any person.  He creates vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor as he sees fit.

      The bits and pieces of scripture that you have presented in hopes of dashing Hell No's understand are indeed incorrect.  You say you make such statements with love in your heart.  The heart is deceitful Ms. Bradshaw.  You cannot point out the supposed beam in another’s eye until you have pulled the one from your own eye.  Do you understand that parable?

      Do you understand that Jesus ONLY spoke in parables?  ONLY in parables!  So your statement above where Christ commissioned his apostles is not what you think it means.  It is a spiritual commandment that only his disciples knew then and his disciples know now.

      Modern religion assumes that they are God's chosen people.  We are told that only the FEW, not the many are His Elect.  Therefore, modern religious sects are OUT.  The few really does mean the FEW.  So maybe, you will start to believe God and what he says instead of trying to find problems with His Word and argue about it. 

      I know you may think what I and others say doesn't make sense or aren’t fair, not having free will, etc.  But who said God is beholden to do anything the way you or I want?  His ways are not our ways and his thinking is not our thinking. 


      God is Spirit, NOT "a" Spirit

      Jesus is God in the OT (you will see my backside)

      No man has ever seen the Father/God the Creator

      God did not create Adam and Eve perfect (perfect creatures don't sin) and yes we have scripture on everything

      Satan was not an Angel who fell from grace because he choose to go against God.  He was created perfectly for his job to test mankind.

      God's will is always done, no if ands or buts, ALWAYS

      God wills that all mankind will be saved.

      Jesus is the Savior of the entire world.  Entire means entire.

      There is no such thing as eternity or forever and ever in the original scriptures.  It's a man-made doctrine and unscriptural.

      An age = aion is a length of time and we are currently in an "age".  When Christ returns, we will be in a different age.  When his millennium ruling with his Elect is over then that age will end and Christ will return all to his Father God our Creator.

      The Elect choose to be judged in their various lifetimes while alive on earth.  Those that die are dead and sleep until they are called.  Those who are not the Elect and dead will continue to sleep until the 2nd resurrection and judgment.  The Elect will judge the Angels and the rest of humanity and since God is a consuming fire, God w/the Elect will purge the remainder of mankind of their sinful ways.  We are given foreshadow of this when speaking of the Harvest, when speaking of refining and burning away the hay and stubble and refining the silver and gold and precious metals/jewels.

      The general population on Earth will not understand.  Only the Elect will.  When Christ returns, Will he will find faith on earth?  Why do you think that is?  Because the general population does not believe God as I and the few others do.  We have complete faith in God and know he controls ALL.  Based on your statements, you do not have faith in God.  You do not believe that God is capable of doing His own Will.  What did you think faith was?

      Do the scriptures lie?  No.  Mankind does.  There is nothing worse than a Christian who is shown the idols of their heart.  WE all have been in your shoes; we all have argued and attempted to show

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      JL: You wrote, "Ms. Bradshaw, you feel this strong need to save souls. That's Jesus's job, not yours. And since Jesus is the Savior of the WORLD, guess what? He already succeeded!" Keeping in mind that Jesus had already died and was resurrected, why then would his disciples (Apostles) be charged with the "great commission?"  It certainly wasn't needed and still isn't, according to you!

      Jesus, upon the day of his ascension (just prior to), He said in Mark 16:15-20 as follows:

      15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

      16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saed; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

      17 And these signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

      18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink of any deadly poison (false doctrine), it shall not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

      19 So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.

      20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.

      [And they promptly reported all these instructions to Peter and his companions.  And after that, Jesus Himself sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation].

      You might call me egocentric, and though my flesh wishes to be "through" with this spiritual battle, the Lord prompts me to love and protect (the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak). Glory be to God forever and ever, AMEN.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Carrie, it is very clear, there has not been any love labored in your research.  the only deceptive translations on these hubs are your pride and ego. They have caused you to improperly represent yourself as a believer in God's Word. You call God a liar over and over again.

      Calling God's truths the workings of the devil is ground you don't want to be walking on.  you have been given correct scriptures without prejudice.  For a time, God has seen fit to blind your eyes to His truths.

      God says love your enemy but you think God says "I will burn my enemies for all eternity in Hell" You are sincerely wrong on so many counts, they are almost too numerous to point out. Many of which have already been pointed out to you in honest study.

      Ms. Bradshaw, you feel this strong need to save souls.  That's Jesus's job, not yours.  And since Jesus is the Savior of the WORLD, guess what?  He already succeeded!

      Why will you not believe God's Word? I believe you are part of the Entire World that is presently being deceived. Your clear misunderstanding of truthful scriptural research and understand speaks this loudly.

      Be of good Cheer Ms. Bradshaw! You can give yourself a rest now Jesus overcame the World and you don't have to save everyone's soul, Jesus already did!

      You don't have to be sad. God is in control of ALL. I believe that. Why can't you?

      May God grant you the eyes and hears to hear and believe his wonderful truths. His Good News truths of which I am a believer!

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      People KNOW they are rejecting GOD! Some even worship their father, Satan: John 8: 44 states, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

      Again, you are not taking the entirety of the sciptures into account.  In fact, you want NO ACCOUNTABILITY to God and are preaching the same to the entire world.  If anyone is deceived, it is NOT those who love God and are the called according to His purpose.

      The Word says that God will say, "DEPART FROM ME, FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU, YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY." (Matthew 7:23). I know what that means, but I think you are ignorant of the truth ~ it's a matter of life and death, eternally. It sounds like you want as many people to believe these lies unto death, if it's possible. That's Satan's ways, alright.

      I've labored in love over these deceptive translations written in these hubs to date, and my work is now done.  God's Word says, if you seek Him, you will find Him (Matthew 7:7-23).  If you think you have no accountability to God, and all those who serve Satan have no accountability, you are truly and grossly deceived.  I am truly saddened for you and all who follow your flowery doctrine.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      God does not delight or take pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that he TURN from his way and LIVE! But neither Israel (nor the Gentiles) knows how to "turn" from their ways. It takes the "goodness of God" to "turn" people. I know that all the billions of "free-willers" in the world poke fun at such an idea that man of themselves can do nothing: "...for without Me ye can do NOTHING" (John 15;5). But as for me, I don’t believe men anymore; I believe God. "Turn, turn, turn" says the Lord God. But how shall Israel "turn" when they have no such power or ability? Will Israel (all Israel) ever "turn" and be saved and LIVE? Not by anything they can conjure up in their phantom of free will. Enter GOD:

      "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant [but the WORLD is ignorant and deceived -- God created a special creature to accomplish this very purpose, Rev. 12:9] of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until [remember there are ‘seasons’?] The fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED [how so, I thought they have to ‘turn’ from their wickedness and sins, Who will ‘turn’ them?] As it is written, There shall come out of Zion The Deliverer, and shall TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS [’evil ways’ Ezek. 33:11] from Jacob [that’s Israel]: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS (Rom 11:25-27) [it will be pretty hard to torture people for all eternity for sins that they NO LONGER HAVE!!!]

      Am I going too fast for anyone? This is not rocket science. These Scriptures are easy!

      Who is it that "turns away" ungodliness from Israel? Must sinners really, by themselves, by their phantom "free -will," by their own power, by their own choice, by the goodness that lies within them (I speak as a fool), by their self-concocted love of God -- "turn away from ungodliness"? Get serious. What is the only thing in the universe that can ever bring a person to repentance? I’ll tell you, if you promise to never ever forget it!

      "Or are you despising the riches of His goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing [here’s that ignorance thing again -- Satan who DECEIVES the whole world] that the GOODNESS OF GOD leads you to REPENTANCE" (Rom. 2:4).

      Once again we are brought back to the CAUSE OF ALL -- GOD!

      And so, it is the "Deliverer" (Christ the Lord), not man’s ‘free’ will, which "turns away ungodliness" from Israel. Let’s continue the thought:

      "As concerning the gospel, they [Israel] are enemies for your sakes [the ‘casting away’ of Israel, Ver. 15]: but as touching the election [the sure thing that God had predetermined long before there ever was an Israel] they are BELOVED for the Father's sake. For the GIFTS and CALLING OF GOD are without repentance [changing]" (Vers. 28-29).

      "Forgive them" are the very words and the doctrine of GOD THE FATHER! So the truth is we have Jesus Christ and God the Father BOTH agreed that "FORGIVE THEM, for they know not what they do" WILL BE ANSWERED, ACCOMPLISHED, AND DONE ! God’s words went out of God’s mouth in this prayer for the whole sinful world to hear, and God’s words do not return to Him VOID (see Isaiah 55:11)!

      Are you believing all these Scriptures that I am giving you? Or are you one of those who thinks he has other Scriptures that contradict all these Scriptures I am giving? My whole purpose is to point you to God’s Words. When I come to a Scripture that is not properly translated, I will point that out also. So far, I believe, all of the Scriptures I have presented speak for themselves.

      And it is self-evident that these Scriptures contradict a plethora of doctrines being taught by the high priests of Christendom.

      Will God somehow change his mind toward this world of sinners which crucified His Son when they are raised at the great white throne to be judged? Forget all the Scriptures for the moment that some of you just "know" contradict this prayer. Concentrate on this prayer, and we will go to the others later. Right here IS the mind of God. Right here IS the attitude of forgiveness and love that God has for sinners -- the world’s worst sinners! Why does most of the world of Christendom refuse to believe our 'LORD'S PRAYER' which really has its origin in the will of the Father? Because it is TOO GOOD! Many will not tolerate a God THIS GOOD!

      Is God fickle? Is God all-forgiving one day at the cross, but then CHANGES into an unforgiving Indian-Giver at the white throne judgment by taking it all back?

      "I am the LORD, I CHANGE NOT; therefore ye sons of Jacob [Israel] are NOT CONSUMED" (Malachi 3:6).

      "But He [God] is in ONE MIND, and who can TURN HIM? And what His soul desires [I Tim. 2:4 & Isa. 46:9-11], EVEN THAT [whatever He wills or desires] HE DOES" (Job 23:13).

      "Jesus Christ is the SAME yesterday, and today, and for ever [Greek: ‘for (into) the eons also’]" (Heb. 13:8).

      No, God is not fickle: forgiving today; cursing tomorrow. Forgiving the worst sinners in the whole while they are yet sinning is the mind, attitude, and love of God! Any theologian who tries to tell you that there are Scriptures that contradict this Scripture (whether it be a Scripture on the lake of fire or any other Scripture), is a liar and a deceiver. "Forgive them [even the theologians who deny the Christ Who died for them] for they know not what they do."

      (All postings are Courtesy of


    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      The Scriptures say that Noah was perfect in his generation, (but need I remind you of a slight imperfect problem he had with the grape juice after the flood?) And God said that Job was perfect in Job 1:8 (which makes us wonder why Job had to abhor himself and "repent in dust and ashes," Chapt. 42:6). And David said of himself that he was perfect in Psalm 18:32, (perfect maybe if we forget about his numbering of Israel in rebellion to God, and perfect if we forget that little incidence with Bathsheba and her husband Uriah).

      Continuing with verse 13:

      "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God… in the day that you were created."

      Here we are told is even more proof that this is speaking of Satan. After all, wasn’t Satan in the garden of "Eden" and wasn’t Satan a "created" being?

      The word translated "Eden" in this verse is the same word or root translated Eden 20 times in the Hebrew Scriptures. Sometimes it has reference to the "garden" that God planted in the area of the country called Eden. Sometimes it has reference to other lands near the area of Eden, and not the garden of Eden. Sometimes it refers to the "children of Eden" as in II Kings 19:12. And I think everyone is aware of the fact that Adam and Eve had NO CHILDREN in the "garden of Eden." Amos 1:5 speaks of the "house of Eden"—very same Hebrew word translated "Eden" in every occurrence of this word in the Hebrew Manuscripts. And Eden is also the name of several persons in Scripture.

      Now back to verse 13 and Eden the garden of God." And so, we see that "Eden" can mean various things, even though Eden is always translated from the same Hebrew word, which is Strong’s #5731, Eden, ay’-den; the same as #5730, eden, ay’den; from #5727, pleasure. #5727, adan, aw-dan’; to be soft or pleasant… to live voluptuously.

      And so we find that this is a word that has a meaning, and that this word does not need to be capitalized. Neither is it capitalized OR translated "eden" in other Scriptures:

      Can the high priests of Christendom ever get anything Scripturally correct? They cite Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 (I will write a paper on these two chapters in the near future) as proof that Satan was once a perfect and glorious archangel.

      They claim that a PERFECT AND GLORIOUS LIGHT-BRINGING ARCHANGEL CHANGED HIMSELF INTO SATAN THE DEVIL, whereas we just read in the divine, inspired, infallible Word of God that contrariwise, it is SATAN THE DEVIL WHO HAS TRANSFORMED HIMSELF INTO A PERFECT AND GLORIOUS ANGEL OF LIGHT! The Scriptures teach the diametric opposite from what Christendom is teaching. But it is mandatory that they teach this lie, because it is mandatory that they deny every Scripture that says GOD CREATED EVIL or EVIL CREATURES! It doesn’t fit their theology. They must find a way that allows God to torture billions of people in fire without being evil Himself or even responsible for doing so. The origin of sin and evil must be placed on the creature rather than the Creator. This way the creature is responsible for everything and the Creator is responsible for nothing!

      And so it is stated that men CHOOSE to go into the lake of fire and suffer eternal pain, and God’s hands are tied by a doctrine that Satan has planted into the hearts of all men everywhere. An idol of the heart of such magnitude that men will DIE to preserve it. Deceived humanity has perceived this idol to be of the greatest value of anything that can ever reside in the heart of man including the Holy Spirit of God!

      And just what is it, specifically, that gave this fictitious archangel the ability to metamorphose himself into a devil? Which thing also then permits God to torture humanity eternally in fire, without it being His fault? Which thing also empowers man with the ability to thwart the VERY WILL OF GOD ALMIGHTY?

      "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness [Greek: stupidity] with God. For it is written, He takes the wise in their own craftiness" (I Cor. 3:19).

      “For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!

      "For it is GOD which works in you both to WILL and to DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

      Christians scream, "people who REJECT their Savior; they deserve to BURN IN THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR EVER"!  But you see, God is not like men who DELIGHT in the eternal death and torture of the wicked.

      "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have NO pleasure in the death [including the second death] of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will you die, O house of Israel?" (Ezek. 33:11).

      Killing people for their sins is NOT PLEASURABLE FOR GOD! But it is needful -- for a season.

      "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die ... a time to kill, and a time to heal..." (Ecc. 3:1-3).

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      What is actually spoken of in these two chapters of Isaiah 13 & 14 is the history of world religion and government from the creation of man, through the destruction of man, and the realization of God’s spiritual Mt. Zion filling the universe. All the religions and governments of the world in the history of the world are personified in these two chapters. Isa. 13:1 begins with, "The burden of Babylon…" (organized religion and government against God), and ends with Isa. 14;32b, "That the Lord has founded Zion…" (The spiritual capital of the Universe governing all mankind). It’s all right here for those who have "ears to hear and eyes to see."

      Let me give you the history of the world including all future prophecies, in one sentence:

      God perfectly planned and recorded His creation of the heavens, angels, the earth, and carnal humanity, who sinned wickedly and were all drowned (save a few); who then reached for their own heaven at the tower of Babel in rebellion to the God Who then scattered them (save a few); who later built Babylon into a great pagan empire which God destroyed (save a few); who have since built many wicked and fornicating Babylons collectively called, Mystery Babylon The Great, whom God warns before utterly destroying again (save a few); and of ‘the Few’ God is creating a New Spiritual Humanity of Son-and-Daughter Saviours like unto Jesus, in New Jerusalem on spiritual Mt. Zion, were ALL will be redeemed (NOT just a few); that God may be "ALL in All"!

      Maybe I could shorten it down a smidgen, but there it is. The reality of most of the symbolism of Revelation is contained in that one sentence. "But Mr. Smith, I don’t see ‘666’ anywhere in your sentence." You don’t? I do. I see 666 followed by 777 in nearly every phrase of that sentence. "He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the Churches!"

      So far then there is no sign of Satan in the verses covered in Isa. 14. Let’s proceed with verses 13-14:

      "For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation [appointment] in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High"

      This language should not surprise us seeing that this is a continuation of Babylon, the same system that started at Babel, where they first thought to build "a tower whose top may reach unto heaven" (Gen. 11:4).

      Now verse 15:

      "Yet you shall be brought down to hell [sheol—the grave], to the sides of the pit [cistern, hole, dungeon, or possibly crypt]"

      The only time that Satan will be put in a prison is during Christ’s reign. This is speaking of the demise of the king of Babylon, not the death of Satan.

      Let’s see if we see any sign of Satan in verse 16

      "They that see you [no man has ever seen Satan!] shall narrowly [gaze] upon you, and consider you, saying, Is this the man [‘man’? This is no Satan, but a ‘MAN’] that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms."

      Just like the Pharaohs and many many rulers of nations who taught and thought that they were "gods" represented in the stars of heaven, and who exalted themselves and their throne to heaven, likewise, this king of Babylon is nonetheless only "a MAN." And God Almighty tells him to "HOWL" because God is going to bring him "DOWN TO HELL." And that is just what God did, and the archeological digs in Iraq prove it!

      The fictitious story of Lucifer is a Christian hoax that needs to be relegated to the likes of the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Santa Clause.

      No, Isaiah 13 and 14 are not a description of the some fabled fall of Satan; only a pompous king who dies in infamy without even a proper burial.


      Ezekiel 28:12, "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus says the Lord God; You seal up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."

      Although theologians tell us that Ezekiel 28 also records the fall of Satan from a perfect cherub, it is the king of Tyrus and not Satan who is being addressed in this lamentation. The fact that he was called full of wisdom and perfect in beauty by no means suggests that this is speaking of Satan. Perfect is used in a relative sense when not speaking of deity. God is merely shoving this in the kings face, as it was Tyrus who earlier attributed to herself this claim of perfect beauty, not God!

      "Now, you son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus; And say unto Tyrus, O you that art situate at the entry of the sea, which are a merchant of the people for many isles, Thus says the Lord God; O Tyrus, YOU HAVE SAID I am of perfect beauty" (Ezek. 27:2-3).

      This is exactly the same situation as our Lord dealt with in the city of Capernaum. In fact He says it will be more tolerable for boastful Tyre in the day of judgment than for Capernaum:

      "But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum which are exalted to heaven, shall be thrust down to hell [hades/grave]" (Luke 10:14-15).

      Notice in both cases it is not God Who believes Capernaum or Tyrus is perfect and heavenly, but the carnal-minded people of these two city states. The word "perfect" is used many times in Scripture to mean that there is no outward imperfections (as in a perfect animal for sacrifice, without any outward blemishes). Inside, however, the one who may appear perfect outwardly, can be totally corrupt. It certainly does not mean "sinless." Here is Scriptural proof:

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA


      We will now see what every single verse of Scripture that uses the word "howl" has in common with Isa. 14:12: "Howl, son of the dawn." There is a reason why God tells the people in thirty some verses, "To HOWL…" And it is the very same reason that the "…son of the dawn" is to "Howl" rather than to "lucifer" or light up like a firefly or some other silly unscriptural nonsense! Let’s look at just a few:

      Isa. 13:6, "Howl ye [why?]; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a DESTRUCTION from the Almighty [that’s why]"!

      Isa. 14:31, "Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou; whole Palestina, are DISSOLVED…"

      Isa. 23:1, "The burden of Tyre, Howl, ye ships of Tarshish; for it is LAID WASTE…"

      Isa. 23:6, "Pass ye over to Tarshish; howl, ye inhabitants of the isle" [why?] "…the Lord has given a commandment against the merchant city, to DESTROY THE STRONG HOLDS THEREOF" (Ver. 11).

      Isa. 23:14, "Howl, ye ships of Tarshish: for your strength is LAID WASTE."

      Isa. 65:14-15, "Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but you shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit. And you shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall SLAY YOU…"

      Jer. 25:34 & 37, "Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the day of your SLAUGHTER and of your DISPERSIONS are accomplished: and ye shall FALL like a pleasant vessel… And the peaceable habitations ARE CUT DOWN because of the fierce anger of the Lord."

      Jer. 51:8-9, "Babylon is suddenly FALLEN and DESTROYED: howl for her… for her JUDGMENT REACHES UNTO HEAVEN…"

      Amos 8:3, "And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, says the Lord God; there shall be MANY DEAD BODIES IN EVERY PLACE…"

      Micah 1:8-9, "Therefore I will wail and howl I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls. For her WOUND IS INCURABLE…"

      If you wish, you may check every single Scripture that contains the word "howl," and you will find the same declarations of death and destruction.

      Now then, is there anything in Isaiah 14 that is similar to what we have found in these 30-plus Scriptures that use the word "howl"? In other words, is it not obvious that the word "howl" fits perfectly in verse 14, whereas lucifer/firefly does not make the least sense?

      Isa. 12:4, the subject is, "the king of Babylon," and not Satan or some Lucifer of man’s imagination. An interesting point: In Zech. 11:2 when the destruction comes upon God’s people, God says,

      "Howl, fir tree; for the cedar IS FALLEN; because the mighty and spoiled; howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest [of people] of the vintage is COME DOWN."

      But when the shoe is on the other foot, and it is Babylon who is brought down because she did,

      "weaken the nations" and "did shake the kingdoms" (Isa. 14:12 & 16)

      We read just the opposite:

      "Yea, the fir trees REJOICE at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since you are laid down, no feller [tree cutter—destroyer of people] is come against us" (Verse).

      In a few of the above verses using "howl," we saw the following: destroy, destroyed, destruction, fall, fallen, judgment reaches heaven, cut down, laid waste, dissolved, etc.

      And in Isaiah 13 & 14 we find the following words and phrases regarding the destruction of Babylon:

      Howl ye… for the day of the Lord is at hand… it shall come as a DESTRUCTION from the Almighty… every man’s heart shall melt… they shall be afraid, pangs and sorrows… they shall be in pain… cruel… wrath… fierce anger… desolate… destroy the sinners… I will punish the world for their evil… shake the heavens… remove the earth… day of His fierce anger… flee every one… thrust through… fall by the sword… dashed to pieces… their wives ravished… dash the young men to pieces… no pity… as when God overthrew Sodom… never be inhabited… their houses shall be full of doleful [pain causing] creatures… brought down to the grave… cut down to the ground… brought down [from visions of heaven] to hell [Heb. sheol/grave]… cast out… thrust through… go down… slaughter… cut off… besom [the clean sweep of a broom] of destruction… etc., etc.

      Anyone see why God would suggest that the king of Babylon should, "howl"?

      And you think maybe these verses are talking about the fall of a heavenly firefly, do you?

      No, Babylon, the greatest kingdom of nations in the history of the world is COMING DOWN TO THE GRAVE! Just like Capernaum, Babylon was EXALTED TO HEAVEN, but is being brought down to HELL (the grave of death and destruction). And theologians and translators would try to deceive us into believing that all this is a statement about "How art thou fallen from heaven, O lucifer [firefly]." Does everything spoken of in these two chapters sound like it refers to some chubby cherub (named firefly) who lost his chubby wings when he got kicked out of heaven?

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA


      From my American Heritage College Dictionary, Lucifer n. 1. The archangel cast from heaven for leading the revolt of the angels; Satan. < OE, morning star, Lucifer < Latin Lucifer < lucifer, light-bringer: lux, luc-, light" (page 821).

      The very next word under "Lucifer" is, luciferase n. An enzyme that catalyzes the oxidation of luciferin." Hmmmmm. What have we here? "Lucifer + in."

      And the word that follows "luciferase" in this same dictionary is: " luciferin n. A chemical substance present in the cells of bioluminescent organisms, such as fireflies that produce a bluish-green light when oxidized. [Latin Lucifer, light-bringing; see LUCIFER + -IN.]" (page. 821).

      There it is! Lucifer is the ‘chemical bioluminescence’ in the cells of FIREFLIES! WOW! With that in mind, we should all sleep better tonight.


      And so what do fireflies have to do with the King of Babylon or Satan the devil? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Was Satan once a "light-bringing firefly"? No, no he wasn’t. Then how in the world did we get this Latin word "lucifer" as part of Isa. 14:12, in so many English Bibles?

      First, just who was it that fell from heaven, and does the phrase "fallen from heaven" prove that this person had to have been in God’s throne room, or at least in interstellar space in order for him to "fall from heaven" therefore proving that this must be a spirit being only? No, of course not. It is a figure of speech. Here is proof from none other than Jesus:

      "And you, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shall be thrust down [from heaven] to hell [Gk: hades]" (Luke 10:15).

      So here we have a whole city being thrown down from heaven to hades, their grave. And so it is with the King of Babylon whose "pomp is brought down to the grave" (Isa. 14:11). These two Scriptures are exact parallel thoughts.

      Now then, back to "lucifer." Just what is the Hebrew word found in the manuscripts that the translators turned into the Latin word Lucifer? It is very interesting. All of you with a Strong’s Concordance, look up this word Lucifer. Right after the word Lucifer we are given a definition before we ever go to the Dictionary to find the meaning. Here is what you will find: Lucifer (lu’sif-ur) {1} Title applied to king of Babylon.

      Clearly the editor of Strong’s Concordance realized that this word (whatever it means) is to be applied to the "king of Babylon," and NOT TO SATAN THE DEVIL!

      We are told that the word in question is Strong’s #1966 which is heylel, from 1984 [halal] (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:--Lucifer.

      What a web of deceit is woven in this "light-bringing-brightness-morning-star-Lucifer" theory. This word "Lucifer" appears no other place in Scripture. Was Satan ever spoken of as a "light-bringing perfect archangel"? No. What saith the Scriptures?

      "And no marvel; for Satan himself is TRANSFORMED into an angel of light" (II Cor. 11:14).

      Satan is NOT an angel of light, neither has he ever been! It is the "false apostles, DECEITFUL workers" Ver 13, that DECEIVE people into believing lies. Satan appears as an angel of light to the world; he is transformed into an angel of light, but it is an illusion, it is not true, it is a deception!

      Paul expels any such theory that Satan knows anything about "light":

      "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against power, against the RULERS OF THE DARKNESS of this world" (Eph. 6:12).

      Rev. 16:10 is but the continuation of the same Babylonian beast that we read about in Isa. 14:

      "and the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast [Babylon] and his kingdom was FULL OF DARKNESS…"

      So what is this heylel/halal of Isa. 14:12? Here is the problem—too many translations of previous translations without checking the Hebrew manuscripts first.

      Lucifer is the Latin Vulgate translation of the word "xosphoruos" in the Septuagint, which is a Greek version of the Hebrew of Isaiah 14:12, which the King James translators then translated over into the English as "Lucifer."

      The Latin and the Greek, as well as a supposed form of a "Hebrew" word in verse 12 mean "bright shiner" or "shining one." The problem is, however, that Isa.14:12 was not written in Latin or Greek, but Hebrew. And I assure you that "lucifer" is not a Hebrew word, nor is it an English translation of a Hebrew word. Lucifer is Latin, and is related to a group of Latin derived English words including lucid, luciferin and luciferose, as we saw defined above, all of which suggest brightness or shining. Likewise xosphoros in the Greek derived English words such as, fluorescence and phosphorescence.

      But, there seems to be no Hebrew or Aramaic text in which there is a word in this verse to correspond. What we find in all such texts is the word "hehlehl,’ eill, which is a form of the Hebrew stem "yah-lahl," ill. And what is the meaning of "ill"? Are you ready? It means HOWL. That’s right, "Lucifer" turns out to be nothing more than a "howl" (maybe of ‘hot air’)

      It has been suggested that the translators of the Septuagint (Hebrew into Greek) could have overlooked the smallest of the Hebrew letters or been using a copy in which it had been inadvertently omitted. Thus if the form of the world eill, as it occurs in this particular text, were shortened to ell its meaning would be derived from a different root, in fact would be itself a different root, and the sense given in the Septuagint and the Vulgate would be at least understandable, with one giant exception. There is still absolutely no reason or rule of grammar for turning this word into a personal name! It could possibly mean "a shining one," but not a personal name such as "Lucifer." Doubtless the translators followed the Vulgate as they did in most of their translating.

      Even such an eminent translator as Rotherham seemed to follow the Septuagint in this verse, however, from his comments within parenthesis, it is clear that he was fully aware of the fact that whatever this word meant, it was referring to none other than the context of these verses which is Babylon and not Satan:

      "How has thou (Babylon—see context) fallen from heaven, O Shining One (O howl)—Son of the Dawn! (Babylon conspicuous as Venus). Hewn down to the earth, O crusher of nations."

      Clearly the reference is to Babylon and none other. It was Babylon which was exalted to heaven (as conspicuous as Venus, the brightest star of the morning) in her wealth, power, and glory. Yet just as Capernaum, God says she is brought down to the earth, the one who was a "crusher of nations."

      Next I will list the King James renderings of the word that is found in the "Hebrew" texts and transliterations of its various forms in every occurrence in the entire KJV Bible. Now you can be the judge. In all Hebrew or Aramaic texts of Isa. 14:12, the only word found is "heh-lehl," eill, which is a form of the Hebrew stem "yah-lahl," ill, meaning howl. Here is Kittel’s Hebrew Text for the Hebrew Stem ill—"yah-lahl"—HOWL:

      I don’t believe one has to be a Hebrew scholar to see at a glance that "Lucifer" is totally out of place in this list. The meaning of this word is clear; eill is a verb that means "HOWL", and not a noun than can be twisted into a personal name such as "lucifer"!

      Is there no end to the religious lies fostered on the naive Church? I assure you there is an end, and that end may be soon in sight!

      And notice carefully that the Hebrew verb eill in Isa. 14:12 is the identical form of the first verb eill in Zech. 11:2. Now try substituting the personal noun "Lucifer" in place of the verb "howl" in the two places it occurs in Zech. 11:2. Here as in many Scriptures, the trees are likened to people who are crying out because of the death and destruction:

      "Lucifer, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: Lucifer, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the ventage is come down."

      Such a translation would be nonsense. Or let’s try it back in Isa. 14 where we find the word Lucifer in verse 12, but notice how this word is translated in verse 31: Instead of "Howl, O gate; cry, O city…" We would have, "Lucifer, O gate; c

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      "That you shall take up this proverb against the KING OF BABYLON..." (Ver. 4)

      God is speaking of and to and about, "the King of Babylon," not Lucifer, not Satan, not a cherub. And God tells us the end of this man’s reign:

      "Your pomp is brought down to the grave [Satan never died or was put in a grave], and the noise of your viols [harps or lutes]: the worm [or maggots] is spread under you [can maggots eat a spirit body], and the worms cover you" (Ver. 11).

      But is not this "Lucifer" of verse 14 Satan the Devil?


      This next verse is where theologians believe God stops speaking of the King of Babylon and begins speaking of the origin of Satan. What pray tell, does the end of the King of Babylon have to do with the beginning of Satan? Really nothing, but let’s check out their hypothesis anyway, as it is believed by the Church worldwide.

      "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations"! (Ver. 12).

      Notice that back in verse 4 God says to take up this proverb against the "king of Babylon." Next let’s pick up this proverb in verse 10 after all the "trees" (different people which feared the king), are at rest because of the king’s demise, and see if this "Lucifer theory" fits into these verses without doing irreparable damage to the kings English:

      "All they shall speak and say unto thee [king of Babylon], Art thou [king of Babylon] also become weak as we? Art thou [king of Babylon] become like unto us [mere mortals and not gods from heaven]. Thy [king of Babylon] pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy [king of Babylon] viols: the worm is spread under thee [king of Babylon], and the worms cover thee [king of Babylon]. How art thou [king of Babylon] fallen from heaven, O Lucifer…"?!?

      What is this? How can, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon (made reference to eight time in two sentences), suddenly turn into "Lucifer" in the middle of a sentence? And where are we ever told that "Lucifer" is a proper name for Satan?

      So just where did this proper name, "Lucifer" suddenly appear from in the middle of this sentence? Is "Lucifer" a proper name? Is it even a noun? Is "Lucifer" another name for the king of Babylon? Is "Lucifer" an English word? Is there a Hebrew word that can be translated "Lucifer?"

      Here is shining some LIGHT on this "O Lucifer, son of the morning star" business, and we can all watch Lucifer disappear in the dawn’s early light. It is but another heresy from the Dark Ages that crept into the hallowed halls of the Church. This is a little lengthy, but it is also one of the most intriguing bits of deception your will ever see exposed.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      ONE OF THE BIGGEST LIES IN ALL CHRISTENDOM  - "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer"

      Theologians have been teaching for centuries now that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 give us a perfect explanation of how a perfect Lucifer changed himself into Lucifer the Devil.

      "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." (Isa. 14:-12-14).

      "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus says the Lord God; Thou seal up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. You have been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of your tabrets and of your pipes was prepared in you in the day that you were created. You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you"

      "By the multitude of your merchandise they have filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I will cast you as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty, you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness: I will cast you to the ground, I will lay you before kings, and they may behold you" (Ezek. 28:12-17).

      This, we are told, is a perfect description of how perfect Lucifer, a shining light bringing archangel/cherub, became Satan the Devil. Is there any truth to this theory? We will see.

      This theory suits Satan just fine, and more so, it fits Christendom even ‘finer.’ With this theory (or more correctly ‘hypothesis’), Christendom has the perfect solution to how they can justifiably consign billions of humans to an eternal lake of fire. With their "free will" firmly established in their deceived minds, Christendom can now teach the world that Satan CHOSE to do evil and has not repented, and most of mankind has also CHOSEN to do evil and not repent, therefore they are all thrown into an eternal lake burning with fire, and God is not the least bit responsible.

      The Church believes it has accomplished a most marvelous thing: they have gotten God off the hook of responsibility for all of the sickness, disease, pain, suffering, sin, evil, terrorism, and death in the world. You see, without free will, God could never know who is for Him and who is against Him—it’s the only way, the only "fair" way, and God is fair and God is good. Doesn’t this make good carnal sense, and everyone is happy? It is rank heresy at the highest level; that is what it is!

      Prepare yourself for a revelation: Satan was never perfect and then decided by his phantom free will to become a devil, neither has a single human started out perfect and then decided by his free will to become a sinner! Now I am well aware of the fact that people are deceived about these things, as was I. But the Scriptural truth of these matters will set us free from centuries of unscriptural traditions. The problem with this "Lucifer fell" theory is twofold: poor translation and poor interpretation. Let’s go through it.

      First Isaiah 14. To whom is God addressing Himself in these verses we quoted above?

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Oh, that the Church would believe the Scriptures. Why are there billions who "believe not" in the world? Is it because they CHOOSE to believe not? That’s what well-intentioned Christians tell me all the time. "These people CHOOSE to go to hell." How, pray tell, can they "choose" to go to hell, when they "believe NOT" in the first place. They don’t "make a choice," the choice is made for them, because they "believe not." And JUST WHY do they "believe not?"

      Will you insist on the Church’s answer or will you humbly accept God’s answer? "In whom the God of this world has BLINDED the minds of them that believe NOT…" That’s why they can’t "see" to make the right choice—THEY ARE BLIND!

      Now then, what would happen if God were to REMOVE that Satanic blindness? Would they STILL choose to reject Jesus Christ and His gospel? We don’t need to speculate, let’s read it:

      "In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, LEST the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, SHOULD SHINE UNTO THEM" (II Cor. 4:4).

      When the deception is taken away, people will understand. When the blindness is taking away, people will see the truth.

      Next, notice what Jesus Himself says would happen if this Satanic blindness were removed:

      "For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed [Why? Why are their eyes ‘closed?’ Because, "the god of this world has BLINDED… them…" That’s why] lest at ANY TIME they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should BE CONVERTED, and I should HEAL them" (Matt. 13:15).

      This is not rocket science. When Satan blinds the minds of people, they "believe NOT." And they cannot repent, be converted, or saved until the blindness is lifted and they are given a knowledge of the Truth. But is it God’s will that such a thing will ever happen?

      "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who WILL have all men to be saved [and just how might that come about?], and to come unto the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" (I Tim. 2:4).

      But doesn’t the Church teach that God is the Savior of "believers ONLY?" Don’t the non-believers GO TO HELL? Let’s read it:

      "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of ALL MEN… [but doesn’t that mean believers exclusively? No…] …of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe" (I Tim. 4:10).

      Will everyone reading this last paragraph now believe God, and believe these Scriptures, and turn to God and be saved, seeing how simple and clear these verses are. NO! Why not? Because Satan has SPIRITUALLY BLINDED their eyes. True, they can read the words, but they cannot see the Truth in their heart, mind, and spirit. Jesus said,

      "…the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE" (John 6:63).

      No one can "see" words of "spirit" with eyes of flesh. If you are beginning to see the big picture of God’s salvation of all, and rejoice in that Truth, then God has given you "spiritual eyes to see spiritual words."

      We coin the phrase, "In God We Trust," and parrot the phrase, "One Nation Under God," but how can that be, seeing that we have just read in the Scriptures that all the kingdoms of this world belong to Satan who has blinded the minds of these same nations. Now surely someone will say, "But Satan has blinded the minds of only those who ‘believe not.’" Well, if they are not blinded, then they will believe the above Scriptures that say Satan is the god of this world and Satan owns all the nations of this world! But the so-called "believers" don’t really "believe" the Scriptures that I just quoted, DO THEY? No, of course they don’t. Do you see how God’s Word is a "two-edged sword?"

      Thank God that Jesus was not intimidated in the slightest by Satan:

      "Then says Jesus unto him, Get thee hence SATAN… Then the DEVIL leaves Him…" (Matt. 4:10-11).

      Does Satan obey Christ by leaving and never to return? Is this the end of Satan? No. Let’s see what else Luke’s account adds to this drama,

      "and when the devil had ended all the temptation [Gk: testing], he departed from Him for a season [Gk: until an opportune time]" (Luke 4:13).

      So Satan left our Lord only for the moment. However, Satan would be at the heels of Jesus wherever He went. After attacking Jesus, Satan attacked His head Apostle, but only Jesus recognized whom it really was talking through His apostle:

      "But He turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind Me, SATAN..." (Matt. 16:23).

      And again, Satan leaves, but only "for a season." Some might wonder why Jesus wouldn’t just command him to leave and never, ever return again? Because, Satan is needed. Satan was created for the very purpose that he fulfills.

      Jesus tells us in a parable that wherever His Word is heard, Satan is there to do his dirty work:

      "And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown, but when they have heard, SATAN comes immediately, and takes away the word that was sown in the hearts" (Mark 4:15).

      I have no doubt but that this is happening right now to some who are reading this Series on the Lake of Fire. Some will see in their heart that these things I am teaching from the Scriptures must be true, but quickly Satan plants doubts and visions of persecution in their minds, and so some will immediately reject these grand truths because of Satan’s influence over their carnal minds. Satan is a very powerful spirit being.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded you, though you have not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there none beside Me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL [even the creation of evil and even the creation of Satan] THESE THINGS" (Isaiah 45:5-7). Satan is evil, God created evil, God CREATED SATAN!

      "He that commits sin is of the DEVIL [Gk: Adversary, Satan] for the Devil SINS FROM THE BEGINNING. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the WORKS of the Devil" (I John 3:8). So was it AFTER a supposed "Lucifer archangel" metamorphosed into Satan that he sinned, or did Satan the Adversary sin "from the BEGINNING?

      Just as God has provided food for mankind, He has also provided food for Satan. And just what kind of food does Satan dine on?  Satan dines on mankind.

      "And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon your belly shall you go, and DUST SHALL YOU EAT all the days of your life" (Gen. 3:14).

      This is, of course a parable. That "serpent" in the garden was none other than

      "…that OLD SERPENT, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world…" (Rev. 12:9).

      And this is the same serpent that "deceived" Eve.

      Man is the "dust of the earth" upon which Satan dines: "The first man [Adam] is of the earth, earthy [dust]…" (I Cor. 15:47). Man IS ‘dust.’

      "…for DUST you are, and unto DUST shall you return" (Gen. 3:19).

      When God told the serpent devil Satan that he would eat DUST, He was telling him that he would eat MAN (adam). And this is exactly what Peter tells us in his epistle:

      "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour [Gk: swallow down/eat]" (I Pet. 5:8).

      Satan dines and thrives on the meat of the "carnal [Greek: sarx; flesh] mind [which] is enmity [hostility/hatred] against God: for it is not subject to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7).

      Satan does not seek to devour everyone for food; only those who are carnally [fleshly] minded represent a great steak dinner to him.

      Satan even had King David for dinner:

      "And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel" (I Chron. 21:1).

      But always remember, Satan never operates beyond his God-given parameters as we will see in the case of Job.

      God gave Satan charge over Job, his body, and all his possessions, to try him severely before God:

      "And the Lord said unto SATAN, Behold, he [Job] is in your hand; but save his life" (Job 2:6).

      It was GOD’S idea to severely try Job, not Satan’s. But Satan took strict orders from God as to just how he could try Job. Satan got permission from God at each and every step of this severe trying of Job. Do we think God does it differently today? Do we think Satan now has "free reign"- "free will?" Do we think that God "changes?" Nonsense: "For I am the LORD, I change not…" (Mal. 3:6).

      David prayed for God to use Satan in judging his enemies:

      "Set you a wicked man over him: and let SATAN stand at his right hand" (Psalm 109:6).

      Are not these activities of Satan necessary? Does God use Satan for no good purpose? Then why can’t men see that God also CREATED Satan for these very purposes?

      Satan is constantly finding fault with God’s Chosen ones:

      "And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and SATAN standing at his right hand to resist [accuse] him" (Zech. 3:1).

      Remember, Satan can do NOTHING without God’s approval. When God completed His creating, He said

      "And God saw EVERY THING that He had made [including Satan, the Adversary], and, behold, it was VERY GOOD…" (Gen. 1:31).

      Satan was not only necessary, but he was, in fact, PERFECT for the job that God created him to fulfill.

      Satan tried to disqualify Jesus at the beginning of His ministry:

      "Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil" (Matt. 4:1).

      Notice that it was the spirit of God that led Jesus to be tempted of the devil. Can we not see that Satan serves a needful purpose in God’s plan? It was absolutely needful that Satan tempt Jesus. If it weren’t needful, God wouldn’t have done it! And so Satan tried to bribe Christ into worshiping him:

      "Again, the DEVIL takes Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and shows Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; and says to Him, All these things will I give You, if You will fall down and worship me" "Matt. 4:8-9).

      Let’s notice a few things overlooked by most Sunday school teachers (and most of the world’s greatest theologians as well). Ready? Are you sure? Okay, here goes: ALL THE NATIONS OF THE ENTIRE WORLD BELONG TO SATAN THE DEVIL!!! Heaven and Earth are God’s possessions, however, God has delegated the nations to Satan. Satan could not offer all these kingdoms of the world to Jesus if he did not possess them to offer them in the first place. They are Satan’s ignorant kingdoms:

      "In whom the god [SATAN] of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the Image of God, should shine unto them" (II Cor. 4:4).

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      "The FOOL has said in his heart, ‘There IS NO God’" (Psalm 53:1).

      “For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, are all things: to Whom be glory for ever.  Amen" (KJV Rom. 11:36).

      "Seeing that OUT of Him and THROUGH Him and FOR Him is all..." (Concordant Version).

      Does this also include EVIL?

      "That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me, I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS" (Isaiah 45:6-7).

      According to Christendom, Satan created himself. He was supposedly a perfect archangel and then CHANGED HIMSELF INTO A DEVIL. Is this Scripturally true? Who created Satan?

      You are of your FATHER the DEVIL [the GREAT DRAGON, OLD SERPENT, the DEVIL, and SATAN {Hebrew for Adversary -- I Pet. 5:8} Rev. 12:9], and the lusts of your father ye will do... He was a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth [from the beginning], because there is no truth in him [from the beginning]. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar [from the beginning], and the father [the beginner] of it." And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not" (John 8:44-45).

      "Now the SERPENT was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD GOD had MADE..." (Gen. 3:1) God "made" this serpent which TALKED with Eve as an articulate, intelligent, creature. Satan did not possess this serpent of the field, Satan was this serpent! Satan doesn’t possess snakes! Satan himself was CREATED A SERPENT. Even Paul acknowledges that it was "the SERPENT" that deluded Eve, and not some other creature possessing a snake (II Cor. 11:3). "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between THY SEED and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Gen. 3:15). This serpent that shall bruise the heel of Eve’s seed (singular seed -- Christ) is clearly Satan the Devil who also has seed, "thy seed." Jesus said, "You are of your father the Devil...?" (John 8:44). Satan the Devil has "seed"; he is a "father": a father has children and followers of like nature. No literal snake ever produced a seed that bruised the heel of Jesus. Snakes do not "eat dust" but Satan dines on mankind "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour [Greek: (lit. or fig.) gulp entirely, swallow up] I Pet. 5:8). And he seeks to devour mankind who are "dust" of the earth ("...for dust thou art...." Gen. 3:19).

      "By HIS SPIRIT He hath garnished the heavens; his HAND has FORMED THE CROOKED SERPENT" (Job 26:13). God garnished the heavens by His SPIRIT, because they are a thing of great glory, beauty, and splendor. But the crooked SERPENT God formed by His "hand" -- at ARMS LENGTH. Thus indicating it was something necessary, but not of His HEART AND SPIRIT! Satan is called "the crooked serpent." This word crooked comes from a Hebrew word that is not translated "crooked" anywhere else in the Bible. The word in Hebrew is bariach, and it means "a fugitive," Strong’s #1281. And "fugitive" is from the Hebrew word nuwa, Strong’s #5128, among its several meanings are: "to [go] up and down," and "to and fro," and to "sift." Remember that God names things according to what they are and what they do: (A) "And the LORD [is this a high enough authority for everyone?] Said unto SATAN [not a heretofore archangel], Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, ‘From going TO AND FRO in the earth, and from walking UP AND DOWN in it" (Job. 1:7 and 2:2). It is the "crooked [fugitive] SERPENT" SATAN who goes "TO AND FRO" and "UP AND DOWN" in the earth! God created Satan for this purpose. (B) "And the LORD said [is this a high enough authority for everyone?], Simon, Simon, behold, SATAN [not a heretofore archangel] hath desired to have you, that he may SIFT you as wheat" (Luke 22:31). It is the "crooked [fugitive] SERPENT" SATAN who "SIFTS" men like wheat! God created Satan for this purpose.

      "Behold, I have created the smith [that’s me] that blows the coals in the fire, and that brings forth an instrument for His work, and I have CREATED THE WASTER TO DESTROY" (Isaiah 54:16). ["waster" -- Hebrew: shachath, decay, ruin, batter, cast off, corrupt, destroy, lose, mar, perish, spill spoil -- UTTERLY WASTE, #7843, p. 115, Strong’s Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary]. God created the "WASTER," not the archangel who later supposedly became Satan, but from the BEGINNING God said He created "The WASTER" and He created him "TO DESTROY" Now then, WHO’S role is it to "destroy" the flesh of man so that the spirit may be saved? "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one UNTO SATAN for DESTRUCTION of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (I Cor. 5:4-5). It is SATAN who was created from his very beginning to be "the WASTER to DESTROY" men’s flesh (carnal mindedness) so that they learn not to blaspheme (I Tim. 1:20). Satan started with Adam and Eve and he isn’t finished YET!

      "And no marvel [Gk: to wonder with ASTONISHMENT]; for Satan himself is transformed [Gk: meta schematizo, transfigure -- to change the outward form or appearance, to make GLORIOUS] into an ANGEL OF LIGHT" (II Cor. 11:14).

    • profile image

      Ast 9 years ago

      OH GOSH LOL!!!! You're killing me, that is too funny!! xDD

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      I quickly did some research online to help take a "short-cut" in my exhaustive research and trust this addresses more about the interpretation of this scripture in regard to who Lucifer is in relation to the king of Tyre (and even goes so far as to show Lucifer's choice to rebel against God). This might anger you, but it's here for the purpose of reading on this subject:

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      I quickly did some research online to help take a "short-cut" in my exhaustive research and trust this addresses more about the interpretation of this scripture in regard to who Lucifer is in relation to Tyrus (and even goes so far as to show Lucifer's choice to rebel against God). This might anger you, but it's here for the purpose of reading on this subject:

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      Only because I'm physically tired, I can only address the word "perfect" does not always mean without blemish. It is also used to mean "mature" or "complete".

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      Just a little proof Carrie:

      First of all, I can see how the church has been able to blind so many with this passage and others. It would truly be vague in a literal sense. These words are very poetic and spiritual, though. But I assure you, that there are translation problems here, obviously as the result of the KJ translators attempt to protect false doctrine. It's clearly speaking about the King of Tyre, not Satan. Satan was never some perfect angel. This passage is similar to many that show how man seeks to be his own god. One must be cast down to earth in such cases. It is clearly an attempt by the church to show that something created perfectly can turn against God through its free will. Free will is probably the easiest doctrine to debunk, yet most can't see how silly the concept is.

      Now, about this passage that you and the church think is talking about Satan. Lets start with a little from Ezek. 27.

      . . . . Thus says the Lord God; O Tyrus, you have said I am of perfect beauty.

      So apparently, God was condescending to the level of the king, when He described him in the next chapter. It was Tyrus who earlier attributed to herself this claim of perfect beauty, not God. (Thanks goes to Ray Smith of for this info.)

      Ray points out to us, and I'm pointing it out to you, Bob, that this is how God dealt with Capernaum.

      Luke 10:14-15

      But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum which are exalted to heaven, shall be thrust down to hell (hades).

      They are tormented for a period of time.

      Now, back to what Ray says:

      "Notice in both cases it is not God Who believes Capernaum or Tyrus is perfect and heavenly, but the carnal-minded people of these two city states. The word "perfect" is used many times in scripture to mean that there is no outward imperfections (as in a perfect animal for sacrifice, without and outward blemishes). Inside, however, the one who may appear perfect outwardly, can be totally corrupt. It certainly does not mean sinless."

      Noah was called perfect in the scriptures. God called Job perfect and David said of himself that he was perfect in Psalm 18:32.

      13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God. . .in the day that you were created.

      Here are the translated words from the Hebrew from the word in:

      "In luxury of garden of God you come be.

      Workable translation:

      Thou hast been in Eden of the garden of God.

      Ray's words: If, as the KJV translation suggests, eden is the "garden of God," then it cannot also be of that same garden.

      Now, about this Cherub, spoken of:

      (A New Translation by James Moffatt) On the day you were created, I placed you beside the kherubs on the sacred hill of God; you walked amid the flashing thunderstones.

      (Concordant Version of the Old Testament) In the day of your creation they established the anointed cherub's booth. And I bestow you in the holy mountain of Alueim.

      (The New Revised Standard Version) With an anointed cherub as guardian I place you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked among the stones of fire.

      (The New American Bible) With the Cherub I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God, walking amount the fiery stones.

      These translations show that the Prince of Tyrus was not the cherub, himself, but rather the cherub was placed as a guardian beside or with the prince.

      I will repeat: Free will is a hoax and it is impossible for some angelic being to be created perfectly by God, only to later turn against God.

      Again, I thank Ray Smith of

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      The King of Tyre is a cherub? Lucifer is translated as star of the morning, and this cherub corrupted his wisdom by reason of his brightness: I (God) will cast thee (this cherub) to the ground? Doesn't sound like this cherub was human as the King of Tyre...and what human has instruments "prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created"?

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      He's talking the the King of Tyre. The root of the word translated Lucifer is Eill. In every other instance that word is translated howl. Oh man, guess I gotta put up another hub. Well, read what you've missed first.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      Isaiah 14:12 names Lucifer translated heylel (hay-lale') the morning star:-Lucifer.  "How you have fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!  The whole chapter gives us the deeds of Lucifer.  Here's an article about the three names of Lucifer aka the Devil aka Satan:

      Regarding the music, Ezekiel Chapter 28 describes him:

      13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

      14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

      15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

      16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

      17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

      As in one of my other comments, those in heaven do not mourn, so they will not "get tired of seeing their friends and family members burned in hell" (reference Revelation 21:4).

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      So!! Lucifer led the music for God. . . .excuse me, god. What unscriptural baby urin. And he continues to do this hugh. Well, you got me. I'm a musician myself. Maybe that stupid doctrine is why the Catholics tried to have all of the organs destroyed in Europe back in the day. The word Lucifer is a silly mistranslation at a spot which requires a verb. This hub mocks silly Christian doctrines. . . . . . .and people like Sir Dent. The entire invention of the Lucifer hoax was the early churches attempt to get god off of the hook for sending people to hell. How would your god ever be safe in eternity if every single person saved could conceivably rise up against him. Gee, if all of those saved get tired of seeing their friends and family members burned in hell, I think god would have one hell of a mutiney to contend with.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      Angels are named in the Bible: Gabriel, Michael and yes, Lucifer.  Lucifer was cast out of God's presence with his followers.  God obviously loved enough to give a free will.  Would you want someone loving you without choosing to do so?  He still gives us a free will.

      The word "perfect" in the Bible doesn't mean "flawless". It means "mature". Satan does disguise himself now as an "angel of LIGHT" (that word meaning the same as Jesus' true LIGHT ~ when Jesus said, "I am the light of the world".

      Lucifer also had instruments embedded in his form.  He led the music in God's presence.  God doesn't take back a gift He gives, so even today, Lucifer (now named Satan) uses music to defile God and many people "worship music idols".

      The Word says that "God is not mocked" (Galatians 6:7).  This hub sounds like God and His followers (Christians) are indeed being mocked.  As SirDent stated, "Your battle is with God".

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      I was not talking about the latan word Lucifer. I was talking about the ancient hebrew word translated into Lucifer (eill). But since you don't believe the silly Lucifer hoax anyway, I'll move on. Your insistence that Constantine was the one responsible for the cannonisation is flawed. First of all, we can speculate the time of their completion. I think evidence shows that they were completed prior to the second century. If the cannanozation was a result of humans it would be obvious. By the time of Constantine the church was full of false doctrines and the best way to control the masses would be to scare the living crap out of society. That has continued to this day. Only problem is the oldest manuscripts of the bible don't actually teach the mad eternal torment doctrine. You may wonder why the appocalypes of Peter was not added. That book has clear teachings of a place of eternal torture. These things were believed by that time and would have been used by Constantine to keep order. He may have believed them himself. I am quite certain that the cannon was already in place by Constantine. I have many personal testimonials to why I believe that we have the complete cannon today, but I don't believe that I should use them to gain acceptance of what I had already had sufficient evidence for.

      I know that if I can just barely see over a high wall, it may be futile to describe what I see to one who is only 4 foot 5. This is because it takes a gift from God to recognize the spiritual applications of scripture.

      And just so you know. The bible never claimed that the Earth was the center of the universe.

    • RichardSpeaks profile image

      Richard Kent Matthews 9 years ago from Portland, OR Metro Area

      First, I'm a FORMER fundamentalist.

      Lucifer is a Latin word referring to what we now call Venus, the morning star, the light bearer, the bringer of the dawn. Jesus himself was referred to in Revelation as the 'bright and morning star.' Coincidence?

      I understand where you are coming from and have read a few of your hubs. I must in all due respect take issue with you on the idea that the Bible is in any way Absolute Truth. I will continue to insist that it is a book created by humans for human. When Constantine conquered Rome in 312 a.d., he began the process of turning a mostly pagan empire into a Christian empire. He pulled together all of the scattered bishops at the Council of Nicaea, and told them to get their act together. There were too many Christian groups using too many various books and letters as Scripture. It took another 40 years before the current 27 books were decided BY COMMITTEE to constitute  the Holy Bible. At that time, all other documents--documents that had been used by Christians for several hundred years--were declared heretical. Anyone even reading them could be brought up on charges. Those events ultimately plunged the Western World into what is commonly known as the Dark Ages. It took the likes of Copernicus and Galileo to begin the process of getting us out of it. We are not fully recovered to this very day.

      I ramble, but you get my point.

      One final set of questions: Since the Bible was not pulled together in its final form until well into the fourth century, what did the Christians of the first, second, and third centuries call the Bible? What was their Truth? Why did their books get banned? Who gave Constantine or anyone else the right to decide what books would rule the Western World for the next 1600 years?

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      Richard, the word translated Lucifer comes from an ancient hebrew root for "howl" as a dog howls. A better translation would be "cry out". They took a verb and made it into a proper noun. And yes, God was telling the King of Babylon to cry out. I still don't know about any 30 scriptures which speak of free will. Perhaps they speak of us making choices but never free choices, violating the law of cause and effect. Once you realize that the world has been blinded to the truths of scripture you'll see why JWs, Mormon, Petecostals, Catholics, Unitarians etc. can't possibly know the first thing about God's truths. They are as blind as the rest of modern day Babylon.

      By the way, a fundamentalist should be one that sees the scriptures asfundamental truth. The one's known as fundamentalists are fundamentally blind. I hope you will read my latest hubs and see that scriptures connect in a way that could not have been made up.

    • RichardSpeaks profile image

      Richard Kent Matthews 9 years ago from Portland, OR Metro Area

      Funny stuff here. Oh, just in case you aren't all aware of it, Lucifer is a Latin word. It is found in only one place in the Bible, the Book of Isaiah. That book is written in ancient Hebrew. Latin had not yet been created when the Book of Isaiah was jotted down. Therefore, the Latin word Lucifer was inserted by later Christian editors to replace the King of Babylon. It's called cheating.

      And by the way, if you come strictly from a Biblical perspective, free will is a myth. There are around 130 NT references to predestination and less than 30 referring to free will. John Calvin, the early Protestant church father of the 16th C., was able to reconcile those 30 verses with the other 130. The proponents of free will could not do the reverse. The early Protestant churches i.e. Congregationalist, Methodist, Presbyterian all hold to the doctrine of predestination. The later Evangelical movements of the late 18th and early 19th centuries proclaimed free will as Biblical truth. They were--and are--wrong.

      It's important to remember that when the term "God's will" is used, it means just that. It does not mean "God's hope." If you have free will, then God can only hope you will turn to him and obey. He can only hope that you will accept Jesus. He cannot know. Free will means that nothing is inevitable. God's will means that all is unfolding according to Plan and that the Elect were "chosen before the foundation of the world."

      My advice: Recognize the Bible for what it is--a man-made compilation of many manuscripts written over many centuries, edited by nearly every succeeding generation to fit its own agenda. Don't believe me? Ask any JW, Mormon, Pentecostal, Catholic, Unitarian, Lutheran, Moonie and they will all tell you they have the right take on Scripture. If the creator of the universe is actually referenced in the Bible, it is by complete accident.

      Many blessings from a former fundamentalist.

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      I wear tinted safety goggles so i don't go blind

    • profile image

      Dan 9 years ago

      Yea Lady G, except the OT has very clear spiritual type and shadow pointing directly to what Christ later taught. One of those being universal salvation, but not seen by the hell mongering churchaholics. The blindness of christians is furthur proof of the authenticity of both the OT and the NT.

    • profile image

      issues veritas 9 years ago

      gump to dump

    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 9 years ago from West By God

      Right!  No Satan in the sense of how they use it either.  The first woman was Lilith, but they claim she was a myth, but the whole OT is a myth of a certain group of people.  It is just stories like Aesop's Fables.  The tempter was a snake in the first story of Genesis and then it was the Devil, Satan, Lucifer or whomever they want to call it.  They need to read thier own Church Doctrine as to what it says about how they are to be treated and what the church doctrine hides from them.

    • Tom Cornett profile image

      Tom Cornett 9 years ago from Ohio

      Lucyfer, you got some splainin' to do! :)

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      Lady G, there was no angel named Lucifer. That's why I wrote this parody. As far as women, did you know that God's ecclessia is female in scripture?

    • goldentoad profile image

      goldentoad 9 years ago from Free and running....

      This is some funny shite!!!

    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 9 years ago from West By God

      This is funny and those Christians think Jesus never laughed or had a sense of humor and I guess that is that same with God!!  Jerks all of them!

      History says that Lucifer got kicked out of heaven because he did not want to worship God;s Creation of Adam.  He argued that he, Lucifer, came first and should be worship instead.  Vanity--not beautiy is the culprit to the fall of Lucifer....yet vanity is one of the sins but they attributed it to beauty and blamed it all on Wpmen and therefore Women is the butt of all evil.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      Hey Gump, speak English. Not giberish.

      No, free will is not bad. It's impossible.

    • profile image

      issues veritas 9 years ago

      perfect is as perfect does

      otherwise, perfect has another definition.

      free will cannot be bad, unless perfect created bad.

      unless, you create the apple with the worm, then the apple will not have the worm.

    • Onusonus profile image

      Onusonus 9 years ago from washington

      Turn scripture rightside up and then read!

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      If by Christians you mean dogmatic hell believing heretics, then I don't believe I could think of a bad enough word to insult them with (it wouldn't help them anyway).  But making fun of them sometimes takes the edge off of my utter contempt for their beliefs.  My only battle with God is in wanting to know more and more every day and to have greater faith.  But I am way past the not believing in hell stuff.  The stupidity of that doctrine can only be outweighed by its evil.

      Oh, and thanks for writing, Dent.

    • profile image

      SirDent 9 years ago

      If you wanted to fling insults at Christians. you succeeded. Problem is, your battle is with God.


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