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Jesus Never Mentioned a Physical Rapture of the Church

Updated on September 28, 2017
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Alexander has been a Christian for 46 years. Over the past decade he has studied 'the end times’ from a Preterist's perspective.

St Paul Preaching to the Thessalonians, Gustave Doré (1832-1883)
St Paul Preaching to the Thessalonians, Gustave Doré (1832-1883) | Source


In 1830, Margaret MacDonald from Port Glasgow, Scotland, prophesied the Church should not fear the great tribulation because the 'rapture' would take place prior to it. This prophecy became world-renowned, taken up (pardon the pun) by Edward Irving and endorsed by J N Darby of the Plymouth Brethren.

The doctrine demands two-second comings, the secret rapture of the Church, followed by Christ's return seven years later. C I Scofield promulgated this theory by including notes in his 'Scofield Bible'.

Jesus explained to the disciples the events leading to His return. Howbeit, He never mentioned a physical rapture of the Church seven years before the 'day of the Lord’.

The Church never taught the rapture theory until the 19th century.


Paul's Letters to the Thessalonians

The purpose of Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians was to confirm what he had previously taught them concerning the 'end times'...2 Thessalonians 2:5.

A Quote from Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary

1 Thessalonians 4:13 'The leading topic of Paul’s preaching at Thessalonica having been the coming kingdom (Act_17:7), some perverted it into a cause for fear in respect to friends lately deceased, as if these would be excluded from the glory which those found alive alone should share. This error Paul here corrects (compare 1Th_5:10).......'

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 and the 'Word of the Lord'

  • 1Th 4:14-17 KJV For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This particular portion of Scripture is Dispensationalism's 'candy stick' and used to support Margaret MacDonald’s 'rapture' prophecy. Nevertheless, the rapture doctrine necessitates a two-stage second coming of Christ not found in the Scriptures.

What exactly was 'the word of the Lord' to the Thessalonians?

Paul said he was speaking ‘by the word of the Lord’ like the phrase used by the Old Testament Prophets ‘thus saith the Lord’, meaning by direct revelation.

False teachers had caused doubt in the hearts of believers by proclaiming those who had recently died would miss the glorious return of the Lord. The Lord reassured the Thessalonians 'the dead in Christ shall rise first'.

'we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord' The Thessalonians clearly understood their generation would witness Christ’s return.

'caught up' This phrase was translated from the Greek word 'harpazo', more on this later.

If Paul received additional revelation from the Lord regarding His return, surely it would not contradict what He told the disciples in Matthew 24.

Paul did not reveal a new two-stage return; on the contrary, he alluded to Matthew 24:31.

  • Mat 24:31 KJV And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

'they shall gather together his elect' Jesus never taught rapture as described by Dispensationalism, but He did teach the gathering together of His elect.

1 Thessalonians 5:2-6 and the 'Day of the Lord'

Can we learn from Scripture what the Church in Thessalonica actually believed regarding the events surrounding the return of the Lord? It may come as a surprise to some, but yes, we can.

  • 1Th 5:2-6 KJV For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

A careful study of these verses will show that Paul had only one day and one single event in mind, the 'day of the Lord'.

'let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober' If the Church was to be 'rapture ready' at the beginning of the seven years great tribulation before the 'day of the Lord', the second coming of Christ, why did Paul encourage the saints to be diligent and not to sleep, if they were not going to be around for the 'day of the Lord'.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 and the 'Day of the Lord'

  • 2Th 2:1 YLT And we ask you, brethren, in regard to the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him,

'our gathering together unto him' Once again, Paul alluded to Matthew 24:31.

  • 2Th 2:2-3 YLT that ye be not quickly shaken in mind, nor be troubled, neither through spirit, neither through word, neither through letters as through us, as that the day of Christ hath arrived; 3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because—if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed—the son of the destruction,

False teachers had convinced some believers that the 'Day of the Lord' had already taken place, but how could that have happened if Paul had taught them the popular 21st century 'end times' concept:

The physical rapture

The physical resurrection with open gravesp

Jesus physically descending on a cloud with the sound of the trumpet

Every eye beholding the physical and visible return of Jesus

Destruction on a cosmic level

All they had to do was look around, everything continued as before!

If a physical rapture had taken place, surely they would have noticed the disappearance of at least some believers. Not to mention the event was supposed to have happened seven years earlier.

Paul did not correct their understanding as to the spiritual manner of the second coming of Christ; rather, he built on their knowledge and only corrected the timing issue…1 Thessalonians 5:1-4.

Therefore their concept of the 'day of the Lord' and the spiritual manner of the coming of the Lord must have been the correct one.

Paul's Letters to the Corinthians

1 Corinthians 15:50-52 and 'We Shall Be Changed'

  • 1Co 15:50-52 KJV Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

During Paul’s exposition on the resurrection, he told the Corinthian Church ‘but we shall all be changed’ he did not say we shall all be physically 'raptured', nor did he mention a two-stage return.

2 Corinthians 12:1-4 and Paul's 'Harpazo' Rapture

  • 2Co 12:1-4 KJV It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up (harpazo) to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up (harpazo) into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

'caught up' This was not a physical but a spiritual ascent; God took Paul into the realm of 'the third heaven'.

Paul used the same Greek word ‘harpazo’ translated ‘caught up’ as he did in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. In my opinion, his physical body did not leave the ground.

Paul's spiritual 'harpazo' may shed light on the experience of the saints who were alive and remained at Christ’s Parousia …1 Corinthians 15:52.

The Rapture

Do you think it strange Jesus never mentioned the rapture?

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The Gospel of Matthew

Matthew 24:30-31 and the 'Imminent Return of Christ'

  • Mat 24:30-31 KJV And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

  • Mat 8:11-12 KJV And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The gathering of His elect was to take place concurrently as the children of the kingdom (Old Covenant Israel) were to be cast out. This took place at the destruction of the temple, Jerusalem, and the dispersion of the Jews in AD 70.

  • Mat 3:9 KJV And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

The Jews thought they had a natural right to the privileges of the Kingdom because they were Abraham's descendants, but natural birth did not bring spiritual sonship.

Matthew 24:16 and ‘Flee into the Mountains’

  • Mat 24:16 KJV Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Again, Jesus did not teach a physical rapture. On the contrary, He told the disciples to ‘flee into the mountains’.

Believers in Jerusalem subsequently fled to Pella prior to the city's destruction in AD 70. Pella was the site of one of Christianity's earliest churches.

According to Eusebius of Caesarea it was a refuge for Christians fleeing from Jerusalem during the Roman/Jewish war.

The Trump of God

  • Rev 11:15 KJV And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

  • 1Co 15:52 KJV In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The Scriptures we have considered so far, and in particular 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, 1 Corinthians 15:52, Matthew 24:31 and Revelation 11:15 have a common denominator; ‘the Trump of God’.

If there is to be a two-stage return with a seven-year gap in between, how can there be two last trumps? There can only be one ‘last trump’!

If we allow Scripture to interpret Scripture we will find that Christ’s return was a single and glorious one.

Only one last trumpet is mentioned in these Scriptures, Matthew 24 placed the sounding of that trumpet at the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70, before that generation passed away…Matthew 24:31-34.

'The Hour of the Trial'

Dispensationalism teaches, although the 'rapture' is never mentioned in the Scriptures, it is between Revelation chapters 3 and 4!

  • Rev 3:10 KJV Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
  • Rev 3:10 YLT `Because thou didst keep the word of my endurance, I also will keep thee from the hour of the trial that is about to come upon all the world, to try those dwelling upon the earth.

This verse is taken out of context to endorse the theory the Church was promised a physical removal from the world prior to the great tribulation. The letter was addressed specifically to the Church at Philadelphia in Asia Minor during the 1st century.

The King James Version of the phrase ‘which shall come upon all the world' should read 'that is about to come upon all the world' according to Young's Literal Translation, this verse contains the Greek 'mello', which means 'about to'.

It is interesting to note, ‘all the world’ is the Greek word ‘oikoumene’ meaning the Roman Empire, and ‘upon the earth’ is the Greek word ‘ge’ meaning region or land.

The time indicator renders impossible the idea that the promise was to saints 2000 years in the future.

Repent the End of the World is Near!

Repent the End of the World is Near!
Repent the End of the World is Near! | Source

Chronological Periods

  • Rev 1:20 KJV The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

C I Scofield, Clarence Larkin, and other writers of Dispensationalism, held the view that the seven churches in Revelation 2-3 represent seven consecutive chronological periods in Church history.

'Come up hither'

  • Rev 4:1-2 KJV After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

John was told to ‘Come up hither’, he didn't bodily go to Heaven but 'was in the Spirit'.

Although Dispensationalism teaches this Scripture supports the rapture theory, one of their leading proponents John F Walfoord was not convinced.

‘The invitation to John to ‘come up hither’ is so similar to that which the Church anticipates at the Rapture that many have connected the two expressions. It is clear from the context that this is not an explicit reference to the rapture of the Church, as John was not actually translated; in fact he was still in his natural body on the island of Patmos. He was translated into scenes of heaven only temporarily.’

— John F Walfoord

Enoch's Rapture

Dispensationalism holds the view that Enoch and Elijah were examples of those who have already been 'raptured' to heaven.

A Quote from a Website Promoting Dispensationalism

'Enoch and Elijah are two Old Testament examples of men taken live into heaven...
The Bible doesn’t describe their destination specifically, but some scholars have speculated that they were raptured just as the church will be...' (Source available on request).

  • Gen 5:24 YLT And Enoch walketh habitually with God, and he is not, for God hath taken him.

  • Heb 11:5 YLT By faith Enoch was translated--not to see death, and was not found, because God did translate him; for before his translation he had been testified to--that he had pleased God well.

  • Heb 11:13 YLT In faith died all these, not having received the promises, but from afar having seen them, and having been persuaded, and having saluted them, and having confessed that strangers and sojourners they are upon the earth.

'In faith died all these' The Scriptures do not actually state Enoch was translated alive to Heaven, according to Hebrews 11:13, Enoch was included with those who died, not having received the promises...Hebrews 11:5.

Do you believe in the Rapture?

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Elijah's 'Rapture'

  • 2Ki 2:1 YLT And it cometh to pass, at Jehovah's taking up Elijah in a whirlwind to the heavens, that Elijah goeth, and Elisha, from Gilgal,

King Jehoram forsook the God of his fathers and did wickedly; consequently he received writing from Elijah the prophet...2 Chronicles 21:12. Elijah wrote to Jehoram telling him the judgement of God would come upon him for his actions. However, Jehoram did not begin his reign until sometime after Elijah was physically caught up in the whirlwind! Did Elijah write his letter from heaven?

The Baptism of the Chamberlain

The Baptism of the Chamberlain, Abraham Bloemaert (1566-1651)
The Baptism of the Chamberlain, Abraham Bloemaert (1566-1651) | Source

Philip's Rapture

  • Act 8:39-40 KJV And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away (harpazo) Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

'caught away' Once again the Greek word 'harpazo' was used. In my opinion, Elijah was not caught up into ‘third heaven’ but simply physically caught away. Philip had a similar experience, he was found later at Azotus.


Has this Hub challenged you to search the Scriptures?

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  • Eph 1:10 KJV That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

A Quote from Geneva Bible Translation Notes

Ephesians 1:10 'The Father exhibited and gave Christ, who is the head of all the elect to the world, at that time which was convenient according as he most wisely disposed all times from everlasting. And Christ is he in whom all the elect from the beginning of the world (otherwise wandering and separated from God) are gathered together. And some of these elect were in heaven, when he came into the earth, that is, those who by faith in him to come, were gathered together. And others being found upon the earth were gathered together by him, and the rest are daily gathered together. The faithful are said to be gathered together in Christ, because they are joined together with him through faith, and become as it were one man.'

and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other’…Matthew 24:31. When Jesus returned He gathered the elect of all the ages past and the 1st century remnant into His Kingdom. The final barrier between God and mankind was removed as He took away the last vestiges of the Law that held the power of sin. The gathering was in the heavenly places in Christ, the spiritual Kingdom of God.

It is impossible to escape the conclusion that either the Trumpet of the Lord sounded during the 1st century generation or Jesus failed and mankind still has no escape from sin and separation from God.

The good news is the trumpet sounded and the faithful in Hades were ushered into God's presence, those who were alive and remained were spiritually translated into the Kingdom of God.

  • Joh 5:24 KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

What do you think?

Alexander Gibb

© 2011 Alexander Gibb


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    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      3 years ago from UK


      Thank you for your comment. It truly is a wonderful experience unloading the baggage of Dispensationalism. I will attempt to answer any questions you may have on the subject.

    • profile image


      3 years ago

      Thank you for posting this article. I am a former dispensationalist (30 years) and newly awakened Preterist. I've been studying daily for hours over the last 5 months. It's amazing what happens when you sincerely ask God to reveal the truth to you. Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find. God is good. I'm just getting comfortable enough to start sharing what I've learned with others. This article will be very helpful. I look forward to reading more of your articles. God bless you.

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      5 years ago from UK

      Don Clenney

      Thank you for your comment.

      Quote 'there's is no separating (wheat & tares )until the harvest..' I agree.

      Quote 'which is the end.' The end of what? Assuming you are referring to Matthew 13, do you believe Jesus referred to the end of the world or time?

      The King James Version of Matthew 13:35-40 is inconsistent in its translation of 'world':

      In verses 35 and 38 the Greek 'kosmos' is correctly translated 'world'.

      However, in verses 39 and 40 the Greek 'aion' is wrongly translated 'world', its correct translation is 'age'.

      The following Bible versions are among those that translate 'aion' correctly:

      Apostolic Bible Polyglot, Darby, ISV, Jubilee, Lexham, Young's Literal

      The question is, to which 'age' was Jesus referring? If we read Matthew 13 in context it is clearly the 'age' His audience was living in, which was the Old Covenant Age.

      Jesus was not preaching the end of the world or the end of time, He came preaching repentance prior to the impending great and the terrible Day of the Lord in AD 70.

      Mat 13:35-40 KJV That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the (KOSMOS) world. 36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the (KOSMOS) world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the (AION, AGE) world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this (AION, AGE) world.

    • profile image

      Don Clenney 

      5 years ago

      there's is no separating (wheat & tares )until the harvest..which is the end .(plain & simple :-)

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      8 years ago from UK

      Jerry Hulse

      Thank you, your comments are welcome anytime.

    • Jerry Hulse profile image

      Jerry W Hulse 

      8 years ago from Kingsport, Tennessee

      Search, when I have time I will give you the pieces throughout the word which is our source, isaiah had some of them but I know the Lord revealed to me one day there will be a rapture but my bible tells me that he is coming after a church that has made herself ready and right now, it does not look like that church is ready so it may take some government or another government taking us over to cause us to bend a knee and pray.

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      8 years ago from UK

      Jerry Hulse

      Thank you for your comment. I appreciate you are busy, but should you find the time I would be interested in your opinion on where I have gone wrong.

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      8 years ago from UK


      Thank you for visiting and commenting on my Hub.

      I agree Margaret MacDonald is not the mother of Pre-Tribulation Rapture; this is a thought that never occurred to me. However, her ‘vision’ was a contributing factor used by others to promote the theory. Although I have no personal association with the following website, the article summarizes my past research into the history of Rapture Doctrine.

      In my opinion, the verses in your comment are taken out of context and don’t support the Pretribulation Rapture.

      In response to the Scriptures you posted I have selected a few as examples to give my understanding of them.

      Mat 24:37-39 KJV But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

      This portion of Scripture is mistakenly linked to the Pretribulation Rapture. In Noah’s day the wicked were taken away by the flood and the righteous remained!

      Noah’s Ark is not a type and shadow of the Pretribulation Rapture. The Lord Jesus Christ is the anti-type of Noah’s Ark, meaning the believer is Justified through Faith in Christ and is in the ‘Ark of Christ’. Noah remained after the flood while the wicked were taken.

      Luk 17:29-30 KJV But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

      Also with Lot’s deliverance, there is nothing to suggest that he was an example of Pretribulation Rapture. Lot fled the city prior to the Lord coming in Judgement.

      Rev 3:10 Darby Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, *I* also will keep thee out of the hour of trial, which is about to come upon the whole habitable world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

      ‘…which is about to come upon the whole habitable world…’ Here is another example of a verse taken out of context. J N Darby correctly translated this Scripture by highlighting that the hour of trial was about to come upon the Church at Philadelphia. Since that particular Church no longer exists and the prophecy was fulfilled, it should not be spiritualised to apply to the Church of the 21st century.

      Unfortunately J N Darby missed the more accurate translation of the ‘world’ in this verse. The Greek Strong’s 3625 'oikoumenē' means ‘specifically the Roman empire’.

      Thank you and welcome to HubPages.

    • Jerry Hulse profile image

      Jerry W Hulse 

      8 years ago from Kingsport, Tennessee

      Isaiah, you are right on and took the words I did not have time to look up.

      Be Blessed.

    • profile image


      8 years ago

      Margaret MacDonald is not the mother of the pre-tribulation rapture.

      Shared this message on another hub, but obviously should post it here!

      God rescued the Righteous (Noah, and his family! Lot, and his family) prior to his Judgment (Wrath) on those Left Behind. Just as us Saved Born Again (New Creatures) Rapture before the Tribulation (Wrath).

      One taken (Rapture) the other (Left Behind in Tribulation). Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8

      Isaiah 26:20-21


      Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee hide thyself as it were for a little moment until the indignation be overpast.


      For, behold, the LORD cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity, the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

      The Bride of Christ

      Revelation 3:10

      Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee (from, Greek, ek- out of) The (hour, Greek, hora- season) of (temptation, Greek, peirasmos- adversity or tribulation) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

      The word (From) in Greek is as “out of” (Greek word, ek) Strong’s Number: 1537 out of, away from.

      Saved Now, and From (out of) The Tribulation.

      2 Thessalonians 3:3

      But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and (keep you (from) evil. AMEN.

      Psalm 121:7-8

      The LORD shall preserve (thee (from) all) evil: he shall preserve thy soul. The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore. AMEN.

      2 Timothy 4:18

      And (the Lord shall deliver me (from) every) evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. AMEN.

      King Jesus Christ promises to keep us “from” or as the Greek word reads, “out of” the season of tribulation that is about to come upon the whole world to try all those that are left behind to dwell upon the earth.


      Delivered, Translated, Raptured us

      As The Days of Noah- The Open DOOR Rapture

      Kind Regards,

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      8 years ago from UK

      Evens N

      Thank you for your comment.

      My Hub 'The Last Days: The Ascension of Christ (In Like Manner) may be of interest to you.

    • profile image

      Evens N 

      8 years ago

      I always have problem with a rapture, just because it was never question of Jesus returning in srcret because every eyes shall see him. The Bible continues to say that the same way Jesus was taken from heaven, the same way he will come back.

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      8 years ago from UK


      Thank you for reading my Hub and for leaving your comment. I agree entirely, we have a wonderful Saviour...Praise the Lord!

    • NanaDianne profile image


      8 years ago

      I really enjoyed reading your Hub, as well as the comments from various readers. It is wonderful when differing opinions can be presented without injecting bias or hateful words. I appreciate the various views and try to learn from them. The Bible is very complex and I suspect that is because the Author is very complex. Although many passages may be found to differ according to one's personal interpretation, fortunately one message comes through no matter which book of the Bible you study....God sent Jesus Christ to save us all and if we believe in Him and confess our sins, our eternal security is guaranteed. That point is perfectly clear.

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      8 years ago from UK

      Ms Dee

      Thank you for reading my Hub and leaving an interesting comment.

      It is wonderful that we can learn from each other and still agree to disagree in an agreeable manner.

      You may find interesting my Hub entitled 'The Book of Revelation: When Was it Written and Why Does it Matter?'.

      Many thanks.

    • Ms Dee profile image

      Deidre Shelden 

      8 years ago from Texas, USA

      Well explained! I found your good point about Enoch one I'd not thought of before. You make other good points, too.

      I am one who does not believe there is a rapture to heaven but rather after the tribulation a gathering of the elect upon Christ's second coming to meet him "in the air". (The elect then accompany him in his final decent to stop the taking of Jerusalem by the armies gathered at Armageddon.) Also, I think there are more indicators in Revelation that point to John having received and written it down later, in the time of Dimitian's reign, rather than Nero's, placing it after the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem by Rome.

      Still, I learned a number of things from your hub and am so glad to have been pointed your direction :). Blessings!

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      8 years ago from UK


      Thank you for your comment.

      I love studying Eschatology, thankfully it is not a Salvation issue. The important matter is to be ready to meet our Lord...Ephesians 2:8-9.

    • Jerry Hulse profile image

      Jerry W Hulse 

      8 years ago from Kingsport, Tennessee

      This is some good reading when I can find the time but as for me, I am a pan mil or whatever pans out is fine with me for I am ready but I am not one hiding and waiting for I am putting my faith in action until he comes!

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      8 years ago from UK


      Thank you for contributing to my Hub.

    • liftandsoar profile image

      Frank P. Crane 

      8 years ago from Richmond, VA

      Michele, there's lots of mystery in Revelation. Some questions may have to go unanswered to teach us to walk with the Lord, not with our water-tight theological systems. But let me suggest an answer to your question about 666. Its a number associated with he second beast mentioned in Revelation 13. I suggest that the first beast that rises out of the sea represents human governments of all types which have become increasingly hostile toward God's people. The second beast represents all the means by which governments attempt to control their people. Notice that the second beast serves the first and seems to be in charge of all communication. Why would the number 666 be attached to this beast. Thoughout Scripture the number 7 is associated with God and his completed or perfect work. A triple six might then represent a human who has godlike powers and qualities but stops just short of being the true God, the antichrist? That's the best I can do with 666.

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      8 years ago from UK


      Thank you for taking the time to read my Hub and for leaving a very interesting comment. I will look out for the book you recommend.

      As I understand it, some of the Church Fathers did believe in Premillennialism, but the Rapture wasn't taught until the 19th century.

      Please keep in touch.

    • profile image


      8 years ago

      This is very interesting. I am inclined to disagree with you - but that's only because I have been taught one way for almost three decades. I'm just now learning how to see two different views and be able to compare and contrast them from another persons eye instead of my own.

      I just started reading a book that I think you would find interesting. It may be difficult for you to read because it is very one-sided (even for me), but at the same time I have found the author to keep his views based on Scripture, as you have as well. One point that I want to research further, is according to the book the Rapture was understood and followed from our early church fathers, meanwhile you are stating it wasn't taught until the 19th century. He is very dispensantionalist, and to go further he is pre-trib.

      At any rate the book is "The Bible and Future Events" by Leon J. Wood. I think I am going to have fun reading that book and comparing some of the points to this post.


    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      8 years ago from UK


      Thank you for reading my Hub, you ask a very good question.

      In my opinion, the ‘man of sin’ in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 whose name totalled six hundred and sixty-six in Revelation 13:18 was Nero Caesar.

      I will make a point of working on this topic for a new Hub.

      Thank you

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      8 years ago from UK


      Thank you for reading my Hub and for your comment. Yes, Jesus fulfilled all His promises just as He said He would. Regardless of appearance the Kingdom of God is victorious and is continuing to grow. We don't need to 'hold the fort'!

    • Michele Travis profile image

      Michele Travis 

      8 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Very interesting hub. Does give me a lot to think about. There are a lot of things I have questions that churches have taught me, that I just cannot understand. But, I won't go into that right now. One thing to ask in the book of Revelation, what is the number 666? What did it mean, or who was it meant for?

    • liftandsoar profile image

      Frank P. Crane 

      8 years ago from Richmond, VA

      You guys are right on! The church should be preparing it's members not to escape, but to hold true to the faith under increasingly dire circumstances.

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      8 years ago from UK

      Lone Ranger

      Thank you for an interesting comment.

      I am glad I 'left behind' the Rapture theory. Contrary to popular opinion, this doctrine does not stand up to close scrutiny.

    • profile image

      Lone Ranger 

      8 years ago

      Excellent Hub, Searchinsany, thank you!!!

      I, for one, believe the rapture to be nothing more than religious escapism and cotton-candy theology.

      Furthermore, I believe the church, as a whole, has become accustomed to prosperity and easy living and as a result the prospects of potentially facing poverty and persecution is not something they want to contemplate, therefore the idea of a "rapture" fits in nicely with their theology.

      With very few exceptions has the Almighty ever denied His servants an opportunity to show their metal by denying them the glorious opportunity to receive the "crown of life", by being faithful unto death.

      If James, Peter, Paul, Polycarp, not to mention the Only Begotten Son of God, Christ Yeshua, were not spared by our Heavenly Father when confronted with torture and execution, how could believers come under the delusion that they somehow would escape this end? Do they not know that "Blessed in the eyes of the Lord is the death of His saints"?

      Best wishes and be well - L.R.

    • searchinsany profile imageAUTHOR

      Alexander Gibb 

      9 years ago from UK


      Thank you for your comment; I will try to answer your questions directly and as briefly as I can, it is difficult however, to do justice to these demanding subjects without creating a new Hub to qualify my statements. I will be submitting more Hubs soon, giving more comprehensive explanations, so please keep in touch.

      It is important to mention that in my opinion John's 'The Revelation' was completely fulfilled by AD 70, even Revelation 20-22!

      What happens to believers after physical death?

      Heb 11:13 KJV These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth....Heb 11:16 KJV But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to becalled their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

      1Co 15:44 KJV It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

      At Christ's Parousia the 'Ekklesia' who lived prior to Christ's return were resurrected from Sheol/Hades having received their Spiritual Body and ushered into the presence of the Lord.

      Since the emptying of Sheol/Hades in AD 70, all born again believers go directly to be with the Lord at physical death having received their Spiritual Body.

      What happens to unbelievers at physical death?

      Rev 22:14-15 KJV Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

      In my opinion the Scriptures don't clearly explain the final outcome of unbelievers, other than being separated from fellowship with the Lord by remaining out with the 'Heavenly City.' I could say more but I would be speculating.

      Perhaps you have noticed from reading my Hubs that I try to support my claims with Scripture. If the Scriptures are silent I try to be silent too.

      Please feel free to comment anytime, you ask some challenging questions.

    • Disappearinghead profile image


      9 years ago from Wales, UK

      A good alternative explanation for the coming of Christ. I shall have to think more on this.

      You mentioned that the saints were resurrected from Sheol/Hades at that time, but where do you believe that leaves the resurrection just prior to the final judgment? Furthermore, upon death in the 21st century, what is your view of the fates of the believer and unbeliever.

      I am inclined to believe that although some were raised from their graves at Christ's resurrection (and perhaps as you say AD70), these were singular events. All the billions of others who have died, and anyone, both believer and unbeliever who has died since, remain in Sheol/Hades sleeping in oblivion until the final resurrection. Otherwise we have the sticky problem of judgment immediately following death where some ascend to Heaven, and others do not.


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