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What happened to make pagans become Christians?

Updated on September 20, 2013

When did this happen and why?, around 350 years or so after Jesus Christ was crucified, died, then rose from the dead. Pagans had not believed in Him before, so why was it so easy for them to become Christians? After reading about it, there are some reasons that it was not a difficult thing for them to do.

It was about the year of 325 after the crucifiction of Jesus Christ that the Roman Emperor Constantine decided to made Rome a Christian empire. But, many of the people who lived in Rome where not Christians, so he decided to let some of their celebrations, symbols, and beliefs mix in with the Christians.

For instance, Christians celebrate Christmas. The birth of Jesus Christ. We celebrate it on December 25th. We give gifts to each other, kiss under the mistletoe, and many put lights of red and green on their trees.

The Pagans celebrated December 17th through December 24th because it was the winter solstice. They kissed each other under the mistletoe with berries of red and green in it. They had parties, and decorations.

This is not the only holiday Christians Celebrate with Pagans.

In Easter Christians celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who after being crucified, rose from the dead so we could be forgiven of our sins. But, why do we hunt for easter eggs and give our children stuffed bunnies? The pagans thought the egg was good luck, and the chick or bunny that came from the egg, brought good life.

In Valentine's Day, does that have anything to do with Christ? It is called St. Valentine's Day by the Catholic Church. In the year 269 a priest named Valetine was executed by the Roman Emperor Claudius ll. However, in the year 496 Pope Gelasius named Feburary 14th to be St. Valentine's Day.

In the ancient times the middle of Feburary was the celebration of the marriage of Zeus and Hara by the Pagans. They gave each other flowers, and celebrated their love.

So, are we celebrating the death of a priest or the marriage of Zeus and Hara?

What about the Cross? I have written another hub about Jesus Christ being crucified on a tree rather then a cross. Christians did not use the symbol of the cross or even talk about it for several hundered years after Christ had been crucified. But, now there are so many paintings of Jesus Christ on a cross, but only one has been found of Jesus Christ on a tree.

To the Pagans, however, the cross has many meanings. The cross can be the symbol of the cosmos and the gods in it, a medicine wheel, or even the four directions their god is pointing.

The last thing I am going to write about is the Trintiy. The Pagans and several others had trinities. One of the pagan trinties was Isis, Orisis, and Typhon. Isis and Orisis were brother and sister and were also married. Typhon was the god of the sea.

The Pagans had another trinity. This trinity was Zeus, Hera, and Athena.

So why do Christians have a Trinity called The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Part of the First Commandment of God is not to have other Gods before him. This is in Exodus 20:3.

It was about 325 that the Roman Emperor Constantine decided to put the Trinity into Christianity. So, does that mean The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are equal? The Christian Trinity was never found in any documents before 325. However, it is very important today.

All of these seem to be the reasons the Roman Emperor Constantine tried to convert Pagans or anyone else into Christianity. Instead of teaching what the apostles were teaching, he put their holidays and beliefs into Christ's.

This, however was an amazing gift from God. Because when Constantine did this, he gave Pagans the chance to have their sins to be forgive. He have them a chance to learn about Jesus. To know God, through Jesus Christ.

For God so loved the world He gave his only begotten Son. Jesus who was crucified, died, and rose from the dead. After that all of us have the chance to be forgiven of our sins! Isn't that amazing!




Do you think Pagans should become Christians? Please scroll down to the bottom, and let me know what you think.

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      BrianishaFox 3 years ago

      Some Pagans became Christian Pagans, and this happened because they wanted to be accepted by the Christian community. However, there is a fine line between the beliefs of Christianity and Paganism, theologically speaking, they are a toxic mix. Christians that practice magic are shunned, and Christians that worship anything other than Jesus are shunned even more.

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      marie1308 3 years ago

      I find it interesting that many of you have quoted the Quran, which by definition is a pagan book. Pagan meaning non-christian. I also find it interesting that you write pagan here as if it's poison spat from your mouth. Christianity was brought about as a way for rich rulers to control their people. The fear of god was used as a weapon. My ancestors were pagans, Irish and Scottish to be exact. Pagans who were forced to be Christians or die. I know no worse religion than the Catholic religion. You may sin all week as long as you as forgiveness every Sunday. You can rape innocent children and we will hid and protect you. I know NO pagan that excepts this behavior as right or just.

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      Omar C 3 years ago

      Oh ok, I just saw that you used the Quran as a point of reference which was a surprise to me.

    • dianetrotter profile image

      G. Diane Nelson Trotter 3 years ago from Fontana

      Hi Michele! To God be the glory! I've been overwhelmed for over 6 months. I've seen God working during that time.

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Omar, the Quran does teach that Jesus existed. But, does not teach that Jesus is the Son of God. Please do not be confused in my belief that Jesus is the Son of God. My belief comes not only from what I have read in the bible, but from my heart. I have not always been a Christian, and have had horrible things happen in my life. But, it was not until I felt YHWH's touch on my face, I fell on the ground and cried. I have never looked back since. That was amazing. Before that, I did not want to live, but since then I love life and I love God. I have been studying and learning more about Jesus. I hope that helped.

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      Omar R 3 years ago

      I'm confused Michele, you use the Quran as an evidence in the belief of Jesus?

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      No offense taken HPAveilinNeshemaA thank you for all the information you have given me. It is very interesting.

      I appreciate very much

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      Jennifer Lee 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      I mean no offense, but many things need to be corrected.

      Constantine used Pagan symbolism to get Pagans to convert to Christianity.

      So this "allowing" was not actually allowing, but using. He took from Pgans to get them to convert. A vast to difference.

      Yule (The Winter Solstice) is (and celebrated) Dec, 21 and/or 22. NOT 17-24. A little research goes a long way.

      They used Dec, 25th because it was actually Mithra's birthday.

      If jesus was real, he could not of been born in the desert in the middle of Winter. It would of been in the late Summer (June - September) to very early Autumn.

      The lights Christians use also came from Pagans. Pagans used to light candles and put them on the tree's on their houses, everywhere basically.

      As for Mistletoe.

      The ancient Druids believed mistletoe to be an indicator of great sacredness.

      The Norse god Balder was the best loved of all the gods. His mother was Frigga, goddess of love and beauty. She loved her son so much that she wanted to make sure no harm would come to him. So she went through the world, securing promises from everything that sprang from the four elements--fire, water, air, and earth--that they would not harm her beloved Balder.

      Leave it to Loki, a sly, evil spirit, to find the loophole. The loophole was mistletoe. He made an arrow from its wood. To make the prank nastier, he took the arrow to Hoder, Balder's brother, who was blind. Guiding Holder's hand, Loki directed the arrow at Balder's heart, and he fell dead.

      Mistletoe Folklore

      Mistletoe was a plant of peace in antiquity. If enemies met by chance beneath it in a forest, they laid down their arms and maintained a truce until the next day. This is thought to be the origin of the ancient custom of hanging a ball of mistletoe from the ceiling and exchanging kisses under it as a sign of friendship and goodwill.

      According to the Anglo-Saxons, kissing under the mistletoe was connected to the legend of Freya, goddess of love, beauty and fertility. According to legend, a man had to kiss any young girl who, without realizing it, found herself accidentally under a sprig of mistletoe hanging from the ceiling.

      If a couple in love exchanges a kiss under the mistletoe, it is interpreted as a promise to marry, as well as a prediction of happiness and long life. In France, the custom linked to mistletoe was reserved for New Year's Day: "Au gui l'An neuf" (Mistletoe for the New Year).

      It is often associated with thunder, and regarded as a protection against fire and lighting. Shakespeare, in Titus Andronicus II calls it 'the baleful mistletoe'. It is interesting to note that mistletoe was excluded from church decorations, probably due to its connection with the Druids and its pagan and magickal associations. This ancient ban on mistletoe is still widely observed even today

      Sacred Celtic Trees and Woods

      To the Celts and many other peoples of the old world, certain trees held special significance as a fuel for heat, cooking, building materials and weaponry. In addition to this however, many woods also provided a powerful spiritual presence. The specific trees varied between different cultures and geographic locations, but those believed to be "sacred" shared certain traits. Unusual size, beauty, the wide range of materials they provided, unique physical characteristics, or simply the power of the tree's spirit could grant it a central place in the folklore and mythology of a culture. Even our modern culture finds that certain trees capture our imagination. The mighty oak, the mystical yew and so many others are reminders of the power that trees have on our lives.

      Trees are living things, filled with the essence and energy and of the Elementals and Mother Earth with an aura of power which is visible to those who are in total balance and harmony. The lore which surrounds a particular tree or wood often reflects the power the old ones sensed and drew from their presence.

      I believe putting tree's in homes represented the Pagan Tree of life. Christians took the tradition to add it to their many collections to get Pagans to convert.

      As for the colors Red and Green.

      Back to religious leaders and their desire to squelch pagan beliefs. About two hundred years before the birth of Christ mistletoe was used by the Druids to celebrate the coming of winter. When congregation members began using mistletoe as Christmas decoration,,,you guessed it. This would never do so church fathers suggested that sprigs of holly would be a more appropriate adornment and suitable replacement for mistletoe.

      The colours of Yule are red and green for the holly and its berries

      The colours of Yule are red and green for the holly and its berries, dark green for the evergreens that are brought into the house, the green and white of the mistletoe, gold for the returning Sun. The Romans celebrated Saturnalia at this time, which is where the customs of the Lord of Misrule and giving presents come from, as the masters had to serve their slaves and give them gifts.

      The Roman’s celebrated Saturnalia a December festival that honored the god Saturn and preceded the celebrating of Christmas. During the Saturnalia festival holly wreaths were given as gifts.

      Gifts.

      Gifts are places under the tree as an offering. The most common gift is the Yule log.

      Ostara (The Spring Equinox) named after the German Goddess Ä’ostre. Is celebrated March, 20.

      This is when the birth and the new cycle of life is celebrated. When the God brings back the sun, when the God who died is reborn.

      The Babylonian pagans celebrated their new year at the spring equinox and gave eggs, painted red to symbolise life, as gifts and blessings.

      The fertility symbolism of Spring is found in the Easter eggs which are a custom in many parts of the world at this time. These were originally the symbols of the German Goddess Ostara or Eostre, who in Germanic-based languages gave her name to Easter.

      The main Ostara symbol is the egg which symbolises fertility in nature. It also shows how plans that were being hatched on the inner levels during the winter may now be put into practice in our lives. We may take the first steps towards doing something we have only dreamt about.

      The bunny also represents fertility and the renewal of life.

      a small bird or bunny: the legend of the bunny and egg Eostre was walking one fine Spring day and came upon a beautiful little bird. The poor bird’s wing was badly injured and Eostre, feeling great compassion for the little creature, wanted to heal it. But the little bird’ wing was so badly damaged that Eostre knew it would never be able to fly again even after She healed it. So, Eostre decided to help the bird by healing it in a way that would give it mobility and a little something more… She turned it into a rabbit!

      an egg: the legend of the bunny and egg During the transformation, the rabbit retained the ability to lay eggs. The rabbit was so grateful to Eostre for saving its life that it laid a sacred egg in Her honor, joyously decorated it and then humbly presented it to the Goddess. She was so pleased and so touched by the rabbit’s thoughtful gift that She wished all humankind to share in her joy. In honoring her wishes, the rabbit went all over the world distributing these beautifully decorated little gifts of life and continues to do so even today.

      Saint Valentine

      Saint Valentine (in Latin, Valentinus) is a widely recognized third-century Roman saint commemorated on February 14 and associated since the High Middle Ages with a tradition of courtly love. Nothing is reliably known of St. Valentine except his name and the fact that he died on February 14 on Via Flaminia in the north of Rome. It is uncertain whether St. Valentine is to be identified as one saint or two saints of the same name. Several differing martyrologies have been added to later hagiographies that are unreliable. For these reasons this liturgical commemoration was not kept in the Catholic calendar of saints for universal liturgical veneration as revised in 1969. But the "Martyr Valentinus who died on the 14th of February on the Via Flaminia close to the Milvian bridge in Rome" still re

    • Vladimir Uhri profile image

      Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

      Yes, you need rest. agape.

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Vlad, thank you so much. You are wonderful. I think I am just tired..will be off hubpages for a week or so. But, then I will be back. Will let you know what is going on.

    • Vladimir Uhri profile image

      Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

      Michele, not needed to be feeling sinner, but being righteousness of His. He took all our sin and gave us Grace and Truth. Now we rejoice and grow to be strong in faith and love.

      Only those who received Him by faith became children of His. Knowledge of His Word will build us.

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Because of the crucifixion of Christ. I wish more Pagans would accept Jesus as their Lord and savior. Then they would be forgiven of sins. I am so imperfect it is amazing. That is why I need Jesus. He allowed me to be forgiven of sins.

      God loves all of us, we are all his children. That is why He sent Jesus.

      So we could be forgiven.

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      B. Leekley, I would really like to read that book, thank you very much for letting me know about it.

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      Brian Leekley 4 years ago from Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA

      Up, Useful, and Interesting. This is interesting history.

      One time I read an interesting book by a scholar named Legge titled, "Forerunners and Rivals of Christianity". The complete text is now online.

      The Christian church absorbed local beliefs and practices in other parts of the world, too, as it spread. For instance, the story of the Irish saint Brigit or Brigid may have been influenced by the story of the Irish pagan goddess Brighid or Brigid. The Mexican Day of the Dead merges an ancient Aztec festival and the Catholic holy days of All Saints Day and All Souls Day. And so on.

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      Van 4 years ago

      Michelle, you should know that trinities aren't limited to one religion. Hinduism, ancient Celtic pagans, ancient Greek pagans, and even Taosim have trinities; Hindus even have multiples. The concept of the trinity doesn't belong to any certain religion.

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      Eword Media Unit 4 years ago from Nairobi, Kenya

      Great hub, really love your article

    • kenyanXstian profile image

      Eword Media Unit 4 years ago from Nairobi, Kenya

      Great hub, really love your article

    • cfin profile image

      cfin 4 years ago from The World we live in

      The Catholic Church created many holidays in an attempt to replace the pagan festivals in Ireland. In modern day, the winding down of the overly controlling church has left us with a mixture of traditions which blend beautifully. Who says superstition and religion cant go hand in hand?

      Most people I know at home have their religion, but they dont let it rule their lives (comfortable as christians). They also have halloween and other pagan influenced festivals from our celtic heritage, and what harm. Life is for enjoying.

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      I will pray for your. You have a very good soul, I thank God for that:)

    • Edwinoel Tanglao profile image

      Edwinoel Tanglao 4 years ago from Los Angeles, California

      Amen, Michele, God loves us all and He wants us back to Him in Jesus, our Lord and Master, that more may find true peace in their hearts, and see themselves freed from what binds them to sin, and how love and forgiveness makes them greater in both body and soul, in both heart and spirit. Truly, Jesus is for love and peace, as we may remain in His grace and in all sincerity, may openly accept and receive His Divine Mercy.

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      We can never thank God enough for Jesus. His birth was wonderful! But what was more amazing was the fact that He allowed Himself to be crucified. He was not forced. And then He rose from the dead. And now, because of all of that, we can be forgiven of our sins. Isn't that amazing? That God loves us that much?

    • Edwinoel Tanglao profile image

      Edwinoel Tanglao 4 years ago from Los Angeles, California

      Amen Michele and Oscarlites, may we continue to live as we may stay enlightened in the light of Christ, and bring the joy of Christmas to the world, for Jesus Christ is born in Bethlehem, as we pray that more helping hands and kind hearts may see all those in need materially and spiritually, blessed and satisfied.

      "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests," as in Like 2:14. Christmas and yuletide cheers to all.

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      I don't understand any of that. Why would anybody do that? I really don't understand it.

    • Oscarlites profile image

      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      yes.. awesome. you never know wha tis going to happen.. but so sad today what happened in connecticut.. needless deaths of children.. I pray for their families..

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      I pray good things are happening for you too Oscarlites.

      This hub has kind of gone off topic don't you think?

      It is probably over.

      But, that is ok with me. Look at the number a comment. Wow, I had no idea.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      yes.. you are so right, michele. thank you!! I hope good things are happening for you!

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      I agree with you both. I am sorry not to be on hubpages very much. I have been so busy. One thing we and all humans need to be careful about, it not to be blinded by satan. God is great, God is good. We know that. We understand and believe that. We LOVE GOD! But some do not. One thing satan can do, is cover people's eyes. About the Vatican, well I just don't know, what I don't know.

      But, the reason people should be careful is the fact that satan can cover their eyes and blind them.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      Rog I liked your post.. michele, I'm not sure what the catholics have is anything to worry about. but waht is to worry about is what we do have.. at least I do believe God could open up the vatican in a second if he chose.. to our eyes all they have hidden, be it earthquake or whatever!..

      Edwin.. God is good.. his mercy is everlasting and his truth endureth to all generations.. amen..

    • Edwinoel Tanglao profile image

      Edwinoel Tanglao 4 years ago from Los Angeles, California

      Amen, Michele. God is great, and God is good, all the time. May His will be done upon us all as we may open our eyes to the truth in the light of Jesus, then be set free from the bondage of sin and of evil which we ourselves allow to rule us in our 'self.' Blessings to you Michele and to all who may believe in God in Jesus, that in the power of the Holy Trinity, and in the power of the cross, in God's Divine Mercy in Jesus, we may all be united in one true FAITH and live forever and ever, in the glory of God the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Edwinoel Tanglao it is very true that spiritual warfare is happening. And yes the protein molecule is in the form of a cross. But you know what never ceases to amaze me? God has all the power! But, still satan thinks he has more power then God. satan is totally wrong. God is everywhere! That is so true! God will win, that has always been true and always will be true. The evil one can control some, but in the end, he will lose.

    • Edwinoel Tanglao profile image

      Edwinoel Tanglao 4 years ago from Los Angeles, California

      Thank you for your honest views, Oscarlites, Uhri and Michele, may we all be enlightened of God's words in Jesus that Jesus has come for the unbelievers, for the pagans, for the Gentiles who may until now refuse to believe in the hardness of their minds and souls.

      For indeed, spiritual warfare is real, and we must always be on top of it while we may believe in what is true in God's words.

      God loves us all, Jesus loves us all, the Holy Spirit loves us all, for through Jesus, we were all created, and the protein molecule in us called 'laminin,' which is in the form of a cross, is the power of God in us, that great cross that has changed the lives of many believers towards true freedom, towards true FAITH, towards the power of the HOLY TRINITY or the THREE in ONE GOD in all of mankind, for GOD is ever Almighty and ever powerful, and again, for He is EVERYWHERE, in every one of us, and again, the body being the temple of the Holy Spirit.

      And God wants all of us to be one with Him in the true FAITH. Let not the evil one take control of this truth, as we may entertain worldly thoughts and malice in our hearts, rather, let all things in this life and in this world be used to glorify God in Jesus and let God's heavenly kingdom reign in us forever and ever, Amen.

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      I agree with you Oscarlites, JESUS and the FATHER ARE ONE, and he is ONE WITH THE FATHER are confusing. Are they One or are the Father and Son. I believe in One in a Family. In that way the trinity does make sense. However, as I said before, when we are allowed to be in Paradise, for those thousand years, that will be the time when we will be taught everything. We will be able to understand, what we do not understand.

      What an amazing time we will have. God will allow us to understand, to know, to no longer be confused. God will reveal, what has not been reveled.

      We will be able to see God!

    • Oscarlites profile image

      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      Edwinoel; What is amazing to me is that You are absolutely right about all that you speak out of the word of God. I have no objections to your presentation, to what you have been shown out of his word. I DO believe its all in him! For in HIM dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily! (Col 2:9)

      When you say trinity, however you have just made it confusing, for the are many versions of trinity, many concepts of man. Just use the word of God, the bible and the living Torah, and you will find life. Man shall not live by bread alone , but by every word that shall proceed out of the mouth of God. Bless you, man!

      -thanks again Michele for your encouraging words! I'm looking forward to a day with my savior, for a day with him is a thousand years!

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      There is an amazing thing in Revelation. During the thousand years, when satan is bound, the 12 tribes who have been chosen will be teaching those of us who have been allowed to enter Paradise. Not all of us will chose to stay there when satan is released for a short time. But, for those us who stay we will have learned so much it will be amazing. We will have learned more then we know now. We will know everything. That will be the time when we know all of the truth.

    • Edwinoel Tanglao profile image

      Edwinoel Tanglao 4 years ago from Los Angeles, California

      Bless you Michele for believing and praying in Jesus' name. Ain't that so beautiful, yet, sadly, many of you still have a vague understanding of the Trinity but I keep of praying that more will understand the One True God that many true Christian believers adhere to. And bless those who may not understand and see, yet they believe, because God strengthens them and allows them to believe in their FAITH. Sorry, I just found time to hop in.

      Yes, cannot be fathomed by our limited minds, but as I have said, is EVERYWHERE and with HIM ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. But the Book of Revelation explains so much of the truth in God's words.

      If Jesus said in Matthew 5:17, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law of the Prophets. I have come not to abolish them but to FULFILL THEM." Is this not because HIS the WORD? "In the BEGINNING WAS the WORD and the WORD WAS with GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD, as in John 1:1.

      When Jesus said about the Son not knowing the day nor the hour of the END of the world and the last judgment, was he not saying this as the Son, who like any human 'son,' should give due reverence, honor and respect to his father? Don't you see and feel how He always wanted us to understand honoring God? Does HE not want us to relate to Him then, to be subject to God's will, not our will be done, hence, be able to carry our own cross as He did, and be willing to make sacrifices for the love of God and of our neighbors, yes, selfless sacrifice that can show our true faith in Him, that to Him we belong and to Him we may be willing to offer everything in this life for His greater glory?

      But in Revelation, as He has gloriously risen, the truth is REVEALED as to why He is ONE WITH THE FATHER. That is why HE, JESUS, WILL JUDGE ALL OF US on how we have pleased GOD in accordance to His (Jesus') ways, His teachings, His commandments as He has come to fulfill the Law of the Prophets, and now that we know and believe that He is ONE WITH THE FATHER, and the JESUS and the FATHER ARE ONE, does it not now make sense why He as being ONE WITH THE FATHER, being the ALPHA and the OMEGA, the FIRST and the LAST knows when the END will come, and knows when each one of us may have our OWN WORLD ENDING when we have to die PHYSICALLY, but our spirit may live and may continue to be alive in Jesus as we may live in Christ, for with Him and in Him 'to die is gain?'

      Yes, even while living in this life, I have seen the truth of being in the essence and presence of God's Kingdom. And there is NO substitute to truly having FREEDOM in the SPIRIT, where NO EVIL may PREVAIL for in Christ, who is the truth, the way and the life, we become free from the bondage of evil, free from the bondage of sin. Is it not then the Holy Spirit in the strength of our faith that may help us win over evil in this spiritual warfare?

      Impossible? Yes, but is it not because we still allow ourselves to be under the bondage of evil, refusing to free ourselves from our doubts and worldly fears?

      Don't you feel Jesus ever encouraging us all to open our eyes to the truth in His words. I do pray more may be enlightened while we may pray in the guidance of the Holy Spirit, in Jesus' name, Amen.

    • Oscarlites profile image

      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      many thoughts arise at you question. I believe a lot of these questions are being discussed on endtime. I haven't kept up with the current status of the catholic church. but yes they are politically affliliated with the Italian Government. they are far reaching in their world power(s) within many countries. They are a direct descendent of the Roman pagan /christian church. what they have done before, they can do again. though they have very stringent - strict leadership on the one side, they allow more liberal groups to exist under their auspices, and they tacitly claim association / oversight of many religious bodies the world over. they claim to be the national religion of many south american countries, and indeed they do have much political power and influence due to their constituence of powerful and wealthy people/familys of these regions. the peoples of these countries accept them as a tradition, and as the ruling religious party. Roman Catholiscism is one of the main existing trinitarian denominations of today, as well as is the episcopal, russian orthodoxy , lutheran, presbyterian, methodist, baptist, and others,.Does that surprise you? Catholic councils regularly occur and one of their ongoing consensus ifs of being the mother church of many American churchs and world denominations, based on the founders of these other churches revolting and coming out of the roman catholic church. Im not sure totally but Martin Luther , John Wesley and others...

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      This is an interesting comment. It is sort of what is happening today. A lot of people are leaving the Catholic Church. As you know the Vatican is in and of it self a Nation. At this point it is losing money. Kind of interesting. Is there anyway they can start to have people come back to the Catholic Church and to have money increase again?

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      I have spent time thinking about the Pagan- Christian conversion period with events starting even in the first century Post- Ascension of Jesus, to the actual 325 date mentioned prior to this, and my thoughts are that instead of the focus being so much on the new christian band and their activity, even though they were hated by church leaders and persecuted, it must have been more about that the Roman synagogues and churches were losing members by the droves, and had to do something drastic in the way of damage control. I can see that a move like this by church leaders would restore them in the eyes of their members? , who were beginning to be disallusioned, and turning away to the Christian faith already, again ( in droves) according to the writers of history. this was all they could do to save themselves. it was brilliant in that sense and probably stopped many from leaving their churches and synagogues. It gave them a new basis of religious power as well and even political position to further enforce their opposition of the real Christ followers, who had been driven abroad, yet were shaking the world with this Gospel.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      And thank you also Vlad.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Oscarlites You and Vlad have taught me a lot. I wish I knew so much more that I could tell you more. No matter what what people have told me in this hub, I know God loves us. God has sent his only Son to forgive our sins, and for that we should be very thankful.

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      Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

      Oscarlites, very good said, thanks.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      I should have said, lets let God be the judge of the move by Constantine, and the Romans to consolidate the fledgling Christians into the Church of Rome, but I will say he caused a lot of confusion, and there is record of a lot of persecution caused to the ones that fled his oversight and that refused to compromise . I'm speaking of the true disciples of Jesus Christ in the Early Church. they were collected like common criminals and imprisoned and tortured and hanged.. until the final move, with one stroke of a pen, Christians became pagans, or Pagans became Christians by name, but those who stayed steadfast fled and hid and refused to be bought. Foxes book of Martyrs tells grim stories of those days.. There is a pagan , man controled church today that still seeks to control religion, and limit the Supernatural Power of God to their priest,and try to retain the interpretation of Holy Scripture to their priests.. We're not still in the old testament and God has brought in a new covenant where we have direct access through Jesus Christ.. God is pretty wonderful to let us have this promise fulfilled.. Abraham could only look forward and long for the promise of the Holy Spirit to be fulfilled! We have more than they had in the old testament! We can pray and be in Gods presence. We can worship him in spirit and in truth..

      2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

      2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

      2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Michael-Milec Your english is very good, at least I think it is. And yes, you are a wonderful teacher. That much I know is true.

      God bless you Micheal.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Oscarlites that is another thing that worries me also. I do believe the endtimes are coming. That does sound like a good site to follow. I am glad it is on fb. Please let me know about the updates.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      Michael Milec.. OH No.. I did not give you that title.. far from it.. I don't even know enough about you and what you believe to even suggest that you believe or don't believe.. sorry if you took that impression.. God is good, and we always are coming to a fuller knowledge of the truth.. my apologies of anything that offends. I said what i did in SUPPORT of what I believed you to say about the presence of Jesus.. and his being called by God. that he enherited all of Gods house, all of wha God had.. as his son.. sorry if my caps threw you off on what I meant. and sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying.. "smartness not directed toward you., just that God is so amazing in his omnipotence and power to keep us on our toes!.. yes, I hope you will grow in the language, but in Gods language the most!.

      Blessings!

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Oscarlites You can add me on FB, and you are right about asking hubpages about trying to publish this. I am not even sure how to do that. If you want to email me via hubpages all you have to go is fanmail and click on that. Then on the top of the fan mail you will see a link that says send Michele Travis and email. Try that and lets go from there.

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      Michael-Milec 4 years ago

      It's very kind of you, Michele, thank you . Your discerning spirit confirms that we are on the same page. HalleluYAH. Even God knows our hearts.

      (Only after my English improves, watch for improvement.) Just to do my best, o, Lord is my constant prayer, to receive right revelations. My Lord isn't leading me of dead-end direction. He makes me frequently stop at the " oasis" He chooses on my journey toward final destination .

      According to the assignment The Lord Jesus designed for His disciples, followers, those who will hold to their faith, to those to whom was much given much be expected in return. as "we " fit the category we ought to be mindful (me included) of those who hunger and search for God and godliness . Many read hubpages , we might only meet them on the other side. That's another reason pointing to the Scripture as best as is given me to share it. It's my obligation to be as clear as possible.

      @ Oscarlites , nothing surprises me in this business living righteously for the sake of the kingdom of God. Seems like MM is targeted by reprehension as well as being rewarded by " naysayers" title . In my walk with God for soo-ooo many years , teaching me ; taught me by the Holy Spirit's wisdom to understand my limitations , also my area of " smartness" fulfilling my need.

      My prayer remains , that readers , after a while bearing with me will notice the grace of a God working even on improving of my English ...

      Shalom.

      May the blessings of The Lord God we love and serve, be upon you both.

      Simply, Michael

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      yep.. but thats what got this hub started! He was a bad guy!!!!

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      Randy 4 years ago

      It's not that pagans were made to be Christians,actually it's the other way around.Constantine was a pagan sun worshiper.It was his intent to make Christians into pagans

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      by the way, Im trying to follow and read "when is the rapture" on endtime.com. its moderated by the host of endtime.. irvin baxter.. its supposedly the biggest endtime website and has its own talk shows etc. it really is keepin gtabs on the middle east. Syria is in a bad state of affairs.. we have 27 warships there now. bad. chemical and deadly sarin gas attacks threatened in the region today. i follow endtime on fb and get the updates.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      thanks Michele. I think the way you start is by picking a place to end the discussions, then copy and paste the entire thing.. into a word document. then, you can begin to format it into a manuscript of such. ( also you have to find out if Hubpages allows this content to be rescripted for book status. ) I think it would for you are the author, they are the hub service provider, but check to be sure.

      I don't know how to email ya. i thnk i did browse and see u on fb, ( mine is set not to be public) but let me know I would add ya. i thought they had a hub email but didn't see any link on your home page.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Oscarlites you know a lot, and I agree with everything you wrote. Why don't you write a book. I promise to buy it :)

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      well, tyndale, 1611? vulgate? then King James. . KJ maybe the most accurate,, yet still subject to cannonization, ( and leaving out some books). but he hired fifty of the best scholars of his day to translate the King James into English. lots, lots, lots! of history there. There is no doubt of Jesus being the biggest thing going in this age!!! If he is God Almighty as well, I have less problems with him being THE GOD that took on the salvation role, than of him being ANOTHER GOD. But God apparently made it ok for us to see him as this Divine and Redemptive Family role, of father son and Holy Ghost. an example was of Abraham offering his son. Adam was made of the dirt, of the flesh, but he was in a perfect state until he broke the commandment. and God somehow KNEW that he would, for Jesus Was already on the scene at least in the plan and mind of God, and I don't think anyone believes he lived in heaven as a fleshly being, before he was "begotten in the flesh!. but he had to be made into a fleshly state in order to become the perfect sacrifice. AS the savior , He WAS the second man Adam. and the firstborn from the dead!. ANd for Micheles sake, , God did have a way of crossing back and forth in / through time to show his plan to both the old testament people and the new testament people! again, MM, Jesus DID inherit his fathers house, and all that he had and was. AND for the naysayers. GOD did NOT make us smarter than he is, and intended for us to never be satisfied , but to have a continual thirst for him!! He does have it all under control!.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      actionbronson Thank you. I appreciate that a lot.

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      actionbronson 4 years ago

      Great read. Definitely learned something new!

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Michael-Milec And God bless you. Please do not think talking with you takes time. It does not. The things that bother me, are that in bibles words are not always the same. In some bibles words have been changed. Or they are missing. This is what makes things difficult. That is why some believe one thing, and some do not.

      That is the reason I looked online for the most accurate translation of the bible.

      May God bless you continually also my friend.

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      Michael-Milec 4 years ago

      Hi Michele.

      Thank you for choosing to talk to me in your busy schedule. Accept my apology for inconvenience. This kind of a challenge, requiring on my part to show how much God's love holds grip on me .

      Both of us are looking at Hebrew 1:5 ( though missing in my translation is " this time the angels are speaking") Rather in my TNT translation says ," God never said to any of the angels ' You are my Son ; today I have be one your Father,' or, ' I will be a father to him , and he shall be a son to me.' ... Goes on up to verse eight , not quoted now here...( the surrounding conditions are obvious) . Pointing to different translations won't be of any importance , unless the truth of the Word prevails .

      Ant the Word is final authority :

      5. " Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus :

      6. Who , being in the form of God, thought not robbery to be equal with God:

      7. But made himself of no reputation , and took upon him the form of a servant , and was made in the likeness of men ." ( Philippians , 6)

      May God bless you continually .

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Thank you Oscarlites, if I try to make it into a book will you help me? I am still searching for the truth.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      thanks. hey, if you just print all of this it is a BOOK! you are a very good commentor, moderator!. You have a good spirit, and outlook. and will be blessed, then, if not now for your faith and honesty and searching. I pray for those on this hub to search and to find truth.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Oh, and by the way, I do agree with you!

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Of course I will pray for you, and Vlad. And please pray for me.

      God bless you.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      YESSSSS MICHELE!!!!!!!!! YEAAA!!!!!! ONE FAMILY!!!! God was not bashful about it.! He moved all of heaven and the skies and all of eternity to make a way for us to be saved! what we are missing is that it required a sinless sacrifice! RAMS of bulls and of goats could not do it! It took the blood of Jesus!! the miracle of the virgin birth! ( i hope we all still believe it was the holy spirit that overshadowed Mary!) GOd did it HIS WAY! not my way, not vlads way, not micheles way.. not some theologians way, but Accoording to redemptions PLAN! thanks.. pray for me.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      And yes, we can talk the same language using bible terms. I will do my best.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Oscarlites I do understand what you are saying, but didn't God also tell us there are no other Gods? The only thing I can accept is basically a family. A father and a son, can be ONE in a family, but are still a father and a son. I hope helps when it comes to explaining what I believe when it comes to the trinity.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      one of the oldest versions of trinity explained ( pictured) an old man ( God) in heaven, beside him, a younger man (Jesus), and another mystical figure, ( the holy ghost)

      Man does all kinds of strange things trying to explain God, and yet he doesn't need us to explain him.

      Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. one thing is for for sure. we cannot 'speak' enough words or 'write' enough words at one time to 'make' everyone believe. they have to come through a process of Desire for GOd, and his spirit drawing them, and him revealing himself to them. you can't even beat it into anyone. Yes we were subjected to ( some of us) childhood teachings and exposure to the word and to his divinely manifested spirit. ( some allow the free moving of the Holy Spirit.) he said he will lead us and guide us into all truth. "but ye are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power." Lets pray and subject ourselves to HIS teachings.

      Michele, Vlad is just pedispositoned that all of the attributes and truths of God have to be boxed up as "trinity" . much of what he says is what I hae been taught and beleive. that there is but one God. but their are separate offices of the Holy GHost and manifestments of God through the Bible. It is good to look up the attributes of God. there ae hundreds of them.

      WHere is the scripture that says . "one lord , one faith, one baptism, one God and father of all, who is above all, and through all , and in you all."..

      IN Jude 25- Now unto the only wise God our savior, be grace and truth , now and ever, amen.!"

      God is not adescribed in a trinity doctrine, he is described in the Bible. in the Torah, and in his Own terms. he says, I am the Lord thy God. ------__________!

      Yes Vlad I have done complete studies where you can find identical claims of Jesus ,and of God, all having identical qualities, but the Works of Jesus are manifest.. He filled a purpose and still does. conquering death hell, and the grave. bringing the gift of salvation. He is the savior, yet he is not a separate God.

      Most Trinity suggeests that He is a separate and and distinct Perrson of a godhead. , suggesting that there are three Gods, not one. so, like I said, we all come from different backgrounds of religious bias and basis? but we can all talk the same language using bible terms.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      If God and Jesus were one, then why did Jesus pray to His Father?

      If God and Jesus were one the why did Jesus cry out when He was being crucified " My God, my God, why hath thou forsaken me?"

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      I looked at Didache and AnteNicene Fathers. This was the first verse I read. It comes from the King James Version

      Chapter 4:1

      Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

      Yes later Jesus says they are one, but then Jesus says

      22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me. 25These things have I spoken unto you,

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Trinity, a trap of the anti-Christ

      The son of perdition, bashar assad of Syria, is of the Alawi Sect of islam, which is the only sect of islam that teaches the trinity doctrine. The trinity is THE CENTRE of Alawi worship and rites. It will be their proclaimation of the trinity that will capture many christian believers. It is the trinity doctrine that will be the brainwashing tool that the antichrist will use to convince people that he can be god, since the belief is that god is not one. Read about bashar al-assad, the son of perdition and also please take the time to research the trinity doctrine of the alawi's: http://www.angelfire.com/az/rescon/mgcalawi.html

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Well there are some who simply ignore verses in the bible they disagree with.

      1) "there is no one like Yahweh our God." Exodus 8:10

      "Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35

      2)"Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:39

      3)"See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39

      4) "I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18

      5) "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Timothy 2:5

      6) yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him." 1 Corinthians 8:6

      7) Ephesians 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8) Philippians 1:2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

      9) 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of MY FATHER AND I will love him, and will MANIFEST MYSELF to him. (how? by HIS Spirit) (how many people are in this verse? The Father and Jesus!)

      These are just a few bible verses. Are they lies? Is the bible a lie? If you believe they are lies, cut these verses out of the bible! There are more verses in the bible that you can cut out. If you wish, you can remove words from the bible.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      How God anointed Jesus if Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went around doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil ; for God was with him. I do believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. That is true. I just do not believe they are one and the same.

      I hope people understand this.

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      Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

      Acts 10:38 How GOD anointed JESUS of Nazareth with the HOLY GHOST and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with Him. KJV

      Please read Didache and AnteNicene Fathers. It is best how first Christians described God nature they could. Anti-Trinity in modern time came 1913. Christian who do not believe in Trinity should take scissors and cut all from Bible they do not like.

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      Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

      Michelle 200 AD Apostle taught us Confession of Faith. I believe in the Father.... I believe in the Son... I believe in the Holy Ghost.

      Look at Acts 10:38.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Edwinoel Tanglao Why do you think that we think Jesus is dead? We do know Jesus is alive, he rose after being crucified. The power of God has no limitations.

      please look at Mark 13:32 ( When Jesus's when Peter,James, John and Andrew are asking Jesus when the end of time will come, this is Jesus's answer) But of that day, and of that hour knoweth , no, angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but only the Father.

      Why would Jesus not know when the end of times would come if Jesus was God?

      Why are you accusing us of these things? Why do you believe that we do not pray to God from deep within our hearts. I honor God every day through pray, I thank God every day. I love God and I know God loves me.

      I also pray in Jesus' name.

      As I have written before, the trinity was a pagan believe, it never was followed by those who followed Jesus, until the third century. When Constantine tried to force pagans to become Christians.

      Words also change in the bible. You can look that up on google. The book that has deleted the most words from the bible is the New International Version.

      As it is written in Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

      Also, please look again ( in google) the most accurate bible. The one that has translated directly from the words the bible was written.

      Please do not be deceived. Words have changed. Do not allow yourself to be blinded. You can read the truth.

      You need to know the truth. Please try to find it.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Oscarlites Thank you for writing those scriptures they are very good ones, and do explain a lot.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Michael-Milec In Hebrews 1:2 we are told that God is speaking to us through His Son Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He has also made the world. That also reminds me of Genesis when God said " Let us make man in our image"

      Also in Hebrews 1:5 ( This time the angels are speaking) For unto which of the angels said,he at any time , thou, art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again I will be a Father to Him, and He shall be to me a Son?

      Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son He saith, thy thorn of God is forever and ever.

      The angels are asking questions. God is answering. What God is saying is that Jesus will be on thy throne of God forever and ever.

      I have looked at several version of the bible. On ever says, " But with reference to the Son"

      Could also be saying the throne OF God?

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      Edwinoel Tanglao 4 years ago from Los Angeles, California

      Dear Uhri, Michelle and Oscarlites, let us not be deceived by our minds and intelligence, but humbly bow down to God's words. Let us not forget when Jesus himself has said in John 10:30, "I and the Father are One," this irked the Jews for this was blasphemy to them. If you love and believe in Jesus, who is One with the Father, who is the Alpha and the Omega, again as in Revelation 22:13; who is the one who lived and died, as in Revelation 1:18, "the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever and ever. I hold the keys to death and the netherworld," for God is one and the same with Jesus who has risen that we too who may believe and follow Him, may one day die yet rise with Him and live forever.

      How would you not believe this if you believe in Jesus and the Divine Wisdom put forth in the Holy Bible? Why do we have to confuse ourselves instead of uniting ourselves to the truth in Jesus, to the truth in God's words, to the truth of our salvation, instead of thinking like the Jews who wanted to stone Him insisting this was blasphemy?

      Again, my dear brothers and sisters, the more we refuse to pray from deep within our hearts and spirit, in the guidance of the Holy Spirit, who is also one with the Father and the Son, you will never understand things of the spirit for God is spirit as He is omnipotent as He is onmiscient, Almighty and all knowing, and He is EVERYWHERE!

      Yes, again, with man many things can be impossible, but "WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE." Let us NOT limit the POWER of GOD to our own mind and limited thinking and intelligence.

      If you believe He is unfathomable, don't you think He deserves more respect, honor, glory and praise if we only only have great FAITH in Him, and our own interpretations would NEVER prosper if we listen to the one who would want to deceive us from believing in the truth in Jesus?

      I pray that we keep Jesus alive in our hearts and be more enlightened by God's words, then, we may see greater works in and around us in the guidance of the Holy Spirit and see true peace and joy blessing our life with our family. This I pray in Jesus' name, Amen.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      IN Hebrews Chapter 1, even while the earthly role of Jesus is completed, he has inherited the Kingdom Of God , As a SOn, and it makes perfect sense. All sons inherit from their fathers. Yet WHile Jesus appears to relinquish his part in the redemption role on this earth, he does imperitavely accept his inheritance as the son of what his father has given him.

      It is So grand!!!! this entire drama of man on the earth, the salvation plan, and how extensively God lets it play out. it does test the limits of our minds to comprehend it , but it does not stress the limits of our faith! God wants us to fall into his plan for our lives, relinquish control: don't be so much a self controlled person, but realize the seed he has planted.. it says in I Cor: each seed grows separately, but the seed is from God. there is so many places in the word of God that tells us that some knowledge can not be had except through his revealing it to us.. to those that search for him in truth.

      The Kingdom of God is likened to a man who went into a field and found a treasure there; and he went back and sold all that he had, peradventure, that he might buy the field, and own the treasure of it.

      But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb.11:6

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      well, maybe none of us are qualified to answer, but the word itself is. perhaps that we could add the complexity of this scripture. It is simply the plan that was from the beginning, Redemption plan....

      1Cr 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

      1Cr 15:20 ¶ But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.

      1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.

      1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

      1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

      1Cr 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

      1Cr 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

      1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

      1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

      1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

      1Cr 15:29 ¶ Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

      1Cr 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

      1Cr 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

      1Cr 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

      1Cr 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

      1Cr 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak [this] to your shame.

      1Cr 15:35 ¶ But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

      1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

      1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:

      1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

      1Cr 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.

      1Cr 15:40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.

      1Cr 15:41 [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.

      1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

      1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

      1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

      1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

      1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

      1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

      1Cr 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.

      1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

      1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

      1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

      1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

      1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

      1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

      1Cr 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

      1Cr 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.

      1Cr 15:57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

      1Cr 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

      Pay attention to verse 24, 27, and 28. then keep reading.. you will find that we were first patterned after the earthly man Adam, and then one day we will wear the body of Christ. It does not have to be confusing,, but it talks in this passage about "the enheritance". We are re-bought back from Sin by Jesus death on the cross, but do you think he went up to his throne in the heavens in a earthly body? do you think we will?

      The Gospel is a simple thing. what it accomplishes is a great and wonderful and phenomenal story will will take forever to tell it all!.

      Through Adam we lost it all, and yet through Jesus the Savior, Lord and King, we are brought back in to the presence of almighty. How ever God had to design this is alright with me!.. I still will hold to the message in Duet 6:4 There is only ONe God. teach it to your chuildren, bind it on your heart , and post in on the doorpost of your house.

      Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

      Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

      Deu 6:6 ¶ And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

      Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

      Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

      Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

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      Michael-Milec 4 years ago

      @ micheletravis, Oscarlites,Vladimir Uhri, Hi. You all are outstanding in your conversation . In conclusion we know more, or all needed to know about the God . ( additionally , we know of one among many Of His " nature ", ' Love ' - God is love someone has said. To me it seems to be more then jus theologically " know about God, " namely t o k n o w God. It's like to walk into the secretiveness of love, to " experience " God's love , supernaturally ( ?) something like Jesus saying " that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me, and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that You have sent me."... ( John's gospel)

      While sharing with my dearest love of my life, the question have been raised : Can you explain to me , then Hebrew 1:8 " But when speaking of the Son, He says 'Your throne, O God will last for ever and ever'..."

      Please, can anyone help?

      Thank you, and may God richly bless you all.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Oscarlites and so are yours.

      God bless you.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      your words are encouraging.. thank you!

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Oscarlites I think you know a lot more then you think you know. I hope that makes sense. There are some very simple things when it comes to loving God, and to being saved, or being able to enter Paradise. You come to know Jesus. You pray to be forgiven, you thank God for his only begotten son. It is not that hard. You do not have to know every thing. If you had to know everything, none of us would enter Paradise. Just know that God loves us, and gave us His only begotten Son.

      We come to God through Jesus, we have been forgiven of our sins though the Jesus being crucified. Jesus is the Son of God. God loves us, and we love God.

      Sometimes I pray for God to lead me on the path He wants me to follow.

      I am not perfect. Oh, boy that one is true! But, I love God, and know He loves me. I pray for forgiveness of my sins thorough the sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus rose after his being crucified.

      There are so many amazing things that happened. Of course we do not understand all of them.

      But, we try. We do try.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      Thanks, Vlad, I added you so I will read as I can. not sure about the device, I try hard enough to use a regular PC.

      Michele, you are so welcome. there is always someone we look up to. thanks for the hub,and all of your wonderful remarks that show your love for God. we all pray for wisdom, light, etc.

      Jesus is the light of the world. the door of the sheep, the way, the truth, lets see what else ? Isaiah 9: 6 remains in me. Jesus was bringing himself, and his word even against the traditions of the Jews, and then also to the pagans: but he was doing it out of love, and a desire that they might know him and be set free. -----In him we live,and move and have our being. Acts 17:28 Peter preached to pagans on Mars hill, to pagans.. to people who had altars to many different Gods.. but Peter said" I speak to the unknown God." Oh that we might find him!!!

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      As are you Vlad. It is amazing to me, how the internet helped me to find you. You have taught me so much. I truly believe God lead me to you.

      Agape.

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      Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

      Oscarlites, Hi. I have small device NT in Hebrew called: The Faith Comes By Hearing. It is delightful for me. They have it in over 500 languages.

      Michelle, you are wonderful child of God. Agape.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Oscarlites Please read more of what Vlad has written. He knows so much, that is the reason I follow him. His hubs are amazing, and he has taught me so much. He is a know so much so much. I love Vlad.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      I really love the posts too. I am excited now about the posts. It is never to late to know more about God.

    • Michele Travis profile image
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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Oscarlites Thanks for all your comments, they are helping me understand more. " I and the Father are one" That is like a family being one. One in the family. And as for " God so loved the world He gave his only begotten son" Yes Jesus is the Son of God, but He is God's son. It is true, when we believe in him, and ask for forgiveness of our sins, then we are able to enter Paradise. God loves us! Isn't that amazing? At least for me it is.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      Vlad , Thanks. I am interested in the Hebrew. I am reading the Living Torah currently, by Rabbi Kaplan.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      That was his purpose, to be our Savior, to save all those who believe in Him. John Chapter 8, he gave his plea; In John 10: he spoke to people who didn't really want to hear what he was saying. when he said "I and my Father are one" he knew that some of them would understand and some of them would not. they were ready to stone him. but he said, "my sheep" my people will hear me.. he had to literally escape from them that day, for they apparently didn't want to hear what he was telling them. many times he was hated for his message. But out of it all, "For God So loved the World, He gave his only begotten son , that whosover believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ( John 3:16) - he gave his all.

      Michele, I have to get busy, and will talk again. I enjoy the posts.!

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      and that is as far as we can go ( in the flesh and of our own understanding). for it says in Scripture, that God is a spirit. and a spirit hath not flesh and bones.. Yet the attributes of God are many. He showed himself to man in many different ways through the scriptures.

      Jesus meant something when he said the words to his following. "except ye believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." He was the Savior, He Saves us. and he wants us to believe in him.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Thank you Vlad, I do believe in unity, just not in Trinity. People can be in unity, they love each other, help each other, but they are not the same person.

      Agape.

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      Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

      Michele, very nice comment. I like that. We have only One Father, One Yeshuvah and One Ruah Ha Kodesh. They are one in unity. Hebrew word Echad means one and also unity. There is no Scripture in the Bible indicating or saying Father and Jesus are the same.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Please forgive me. I made a mistake, when I wrote " Why did the Holy Spirit move upon the earth when God was creating the earth" I do not know what the Holy Spirit was doing, but the Holy Spirit did have a voice.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Oscarlites I do agree with you on this one, the way you explained it. Yes, Jesus was of that deity. And you are correct that no one can come to come to His Father, unless they come through Jesus. Jesus is the One who is the only way we can be forgive for our sins. He is the only way to come to God. And yes, Jesus was able to do all the things you wrote above, which no human could do. Another thing I found that is very interesting is in Genesis. When God spoke the words " Let us make man in our image" I believe he was speaking to Jesus. Jesus truly being the first born. The first created, even before he came to the flesh. And in Genesis we are told that the Holy Spirit

      Yes, Jesus was and is of Deity and was sent from God, and as a child knew more then men.

      When Jesus said " If I go not away, the father cannot send you the comforter, or the Holy Spirit"

      Even if Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the second and the third in heaven, they are not the same as God.

      Yes, they are closest to God, they are just not the same one as God.

      Many think Jesus is the Holy Spirit, but that is also not true.

      The three are the ones who are The Father, the Son, and the one who helps or speaks or is the comforter. They do work very hard, for God and for us.

      In Genesis Chapter 1:1 And the spirit of God was moved upon the face of the waters. The spirit of God. Not the spirit was God. Why would the Spirit move upon the earth while God was creating the earth?

      You are correct again about Jesus physical body dying, but the spiritual did not die.

      It is confusing, but there are three, but they are not one.

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      Oscar Jones 4 years ago from Alabama

      Ed tangleo.. guess what.. I agree with a lot that you have said.. but I do not use the term trinity, for in that I agree with Michele. whether there is two or five definitions of trinity, they are not needed. all that is needed is the word of God.. you do tend to refer to a trinity concept that is based on more truth than others. but the fault is that God needs no man made concept to explain HIM.

      Now Michele, if you will be patient with me, I agree also with all that you have said.. if Trinity needs opposing, you have adequately opposed it. leave out his reference to the word triinity and Ed T did explain the almighty God in Christ, which is Monothesistic belief. ( the beleif of one supreme God.. ) And no little gods by the way.. now I don't know how to further enlighten anyone on this , But JESUS fulfills it all. let me give just one little example.. Jesus WAS of the seed of David by flesh. through Mary. Jesus of fulfillment of prophecy was the second man ADAM, the one to lead us back to the fellowship of God. Jesus was man of/by the flesh, and God/ King, by the divine nature. but that does not make him a trinity. I personally don't need to try to make God three or one by a doctrine of something/by man, for God has already made himself who he is, by himself.one thing I know for sure and will never doubt, is that he robed himself in form of a man and come down to earth to save us! thats what really counts.. add to your list.. God cannot die.. Jesus as MAN died. Jesus as deity did not die! and he made that fleshly MAN Jesus into a supernatural body, and resurrected out of the grave,and in THAT state he walked through a wall into the presnce of the apostles for the last supper.. and in THAT state he walked out to Bethany , and two men in white apparel stood there with the dicisples, to tell them, "fear Not. for in the same manner he is leaving you here today, he will return.." Almighty God through this supernatural miracle showed us how we shall be transfigured and raise from asleep in the grave with a glorious body like his, and ascend in to the heavens one day,..the catching away of the saints.. all who have recieved his name, all who have been bloodwashed, all who have turned from wickedness, and all who have asked his forgiveness, and all who have been baptized in his name,and filled with Holy Ghost power, ( that they said, go ye and tarry and ye shall receive this power at Jerusalem!.).. this is more of the godspel than many dare teach today.. Michele there is not three gods, but there is a Father Son and holy spirit . all who came forth from and returned unto the same God. Jehovah God of the Old testament has been revealed in Jesus Christ. .. the Very Jewish name of Jesus, Yeshua, mean s Jehovah has become my salvation!. Elohim, used also, is a singular word testament to the singleness of God. No mandate or doctrine of mans invention can change this . The Jews are monotheistic. because thats what the law and the prophets taught them... not pluralistic as men try to interprete. Its say Heaven is HIS throne and earth is HIS footstool. Yes Jesus as the glorious Lamb represents ISAAC. . Abrahams son. God was showing Abraham ahead of time what he ( GOD )would have to do, in order that mankind could be saved and restored from the curse of the Law, and be redeemed of the curse of death, and restore man to the Tree of Life., so that he can eat of the tree of life and have eternal Life with Jesus Christ our Lord. ... ( sometimes we tend to forget what its all about.. ..

      michele* we all believe and know that Jesus was of diety.. he was sent from God. he had a flesh nature ,and as flesh he could save no one, but as deity he could.. at certain times of Jesus Life he had to fulfill a role as man. as man he did NOT know , but don't you remember even as a child he spoke wiser than any of the prophets.. IN his God nature, when he needed to, he did know all things. Many places in the word it speaks of Jesus having all power whereby we must be saved.. all power whereby to heal us. and yet when he died and rose again, he said, I relinquish all power back unto my father. He said "if I go not away, the father cannot send you the comforter, or the Holy Spirit, which he shall send in my name.. " I don't know how in myself to give anyone this knowledge, but Jesus said even that no one can come unto me unless my father(or the spirit) draws him.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      Thank you very much Blond Logic I appreciate your comment

      Edwinoel Tanglao

      There is just one more thing I forgot to add

      When Jesus follower's asked him when the end time times were going to come, his answer was " Only my father knows, no one else" That is another proof that the Trinity does not exist. If three were the same, then they all would know, not just the Father.

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      Mary Wickison 4 years ago from Brazil

      How interesting. I never knew this, I will be sharing.

      Thank you and I am pleased I found it just before Christmas.

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      Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

      I do follow the truth, and pray for God to lead me on the path He wants me to follow. But, there are a few interesting things in Revelation that shows us that Jesus is the Son of God. Not God himself. Jesus is not Go d. There is no Trinity. In Revelation 22:3 talks about the throne of God and the Lamb. the Lamb is Jesus. In Revelation God and the Lamb are written about several times. They are not the same. Why would they be next to each other if they are one?

      Also in Revelation 22:16 I, Jesus sent my angel to bear witness of these things for I am the root, and the offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.

      Is God the offspring of David?

      No, God is not. Jesus was in the line of David as was told in the Old Testament.

      In Matthew 3:17 ( After Jesus was baptized) a voice came from Heaven "This is my Son, my beloved, whom I have approved"

      Also, in Matthew 15:34 Jesus cries out My God, My God why have you forsaken me?"

      Why would Jesus have done that, if He were God in terms of the Trinity?

      Why would Jesus be sitting on the throne in Paradise next to God, if he were God, in terms of the Trinity?

      Also, please read 45:18 For I am God, and there is no one else. That means no trinity. God is God.

      Pagans had a trinity, the Christians trinity was created by the Nicene creed! That was another was to bring Pagans into Christianity.

      Remember the 10 commandments. Though shall have no other Gods before me!

      The trinity that has three being one God is breaking the 10 commandments.

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      Edwinoel Tanglao 4 years ago from Los Angeles, California

      I appreciate your kind gesture, Michele. May we all be enlightened towards the truth as I share my thoughts in the light of Christ.

      While it is true that Jesus said in Luke 5:32, "I have not come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners," His words are meant to guide others that they may shun from their evil ways and be freed from the bondage of sin. Whether you are a baptized Christian or not, it does not mean that you are already saved by your faith, especially so if you keep on denying what is true in God's words, and the truth in Jesus. We are all sinners, yet Jesus wants us all renewed in Him.

      As Saint James has said in James 2:26, "For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

      And in 1 Corinthians 2:14-15, Saint Paul exhorts the spiritual person to be empowered to judge others using God's words and commands, as he wrote, "Now the 'natural person,' does not accept what pertains to the Spirit of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is judged spiritually. The 'spiritual person,' however, can judge everything but he is not subject to judgment by anyone, for 'who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to counsel him?' But we have the mind of Christ."

      In other words, Saint Paul in Jesus tells us that when we become spiritual, that is living and understanding God in our spirit, we have the right to judge others in so far as living an unenlightened path is concerned, or living towards what is not godly. Do we not want to see a better world changed while listening and heeding to God's words and commands? Or are we content to being tolerant to what poses to deceive and eventually destroy and devour mankind and the rest of God's creation?

      Further in 1 Corinthians 1:31, "So that, as it is written, 'Whoever boast, should boast in the Lord.'"

      And in Philippians 2:3. Saint Paul in Christ writes, "Do nothing out of selfishness or out of vainglory; rather, humbly regard others as more important than yourself." Winning a battle, a game or a rhetoric is the least important, winning the hearts of man towards what is noble, lasting and true is what counts most.