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What's god got to do with it

Updated on November 2, 2011

What's god but a secod hand devotion?

Tina Turner people, Tina Turner. Somewhere out there in the land of Young Earth Creation is a man named Sye Tenbruggencate. I "stumbled" him on twitter, as he seems to be in this constant he-said, she-said argument with various atheists. I decided I would learn a little bit more about the man and one link into my research I found a statement that I just had to comment about. In a debate with Paul Baird (their third in a serious of who knows how many) Sye opens with this...

"Today Paul and I will be debating the existence of God. Since this is our third go around Paul is well aware that my line of argumentation is that the proof that God exists is that without Him you can’t prove or know anything. Proof requires knowledge, truth and absolute laws of logic to name but a few, none of which can be accounted for outside of the God of Christianity. I submit that the only way one can know anything to be true is by or through revelation from God."

There it is, without god you can't know anything. Im guessing he didn't fully think that through but let me take a moment to digest his argument.

No wonder he's angry!

Blind and godless, how does he manage?!?!
Blind and godless, how does he manage?!?!

So lets start with the obvious, animals. Animals do not know god, so therefore its safe to assume they do not benefit from those necessary revelations. So how do they "know" anything? How do they know what to eat, when to eat, when they are in danger, when its night, when its day etc. Im 100% certain that Sye has some built in "well they don't count" argument, but saving his counter, that alone puts this to bed.

Ultimately, Sye is very confused. We can "know" things without revelation from god. However, like Sye we are limited to our lack of absolute knowledge. We know what the speed of light is and we know it is the fastest speed possible. However, we really don't know what is outside the universe, and perhaps light goes faster there. So we can't really know for 100% certainty that light is the ultimate speed as there is still uknown knowledge. In the end all of us, including the god fearing folk, are limited to our knowledge of what we can know. I believe its one of our best traits, the thirst to learn more and more and to verify what we think we know is true or not. I couldn't imagine being crippled in knowledge because I have put a closing lid on my knowledge with a god. It is our lack of knowing with 100% certainty that keeps us hungry for more. Accepting god's absolute knowledge and ending there might leave you thinking the earth is only 6000 years old... oh wait.

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    • Philanthropy2012 profile image

      DK 

      6 years ago from London

      I meant our lives where we are perpetually haunted with knowledge we may never even acquire ^^ It was a joke though, I understand the satisfaction of the search for truth :) Doesn't stop pain or my hub though! ;)

      I have never heard of any monotheistic division that excludes omnipotency, omniscience or an all loving nature and as such have made my statements based on that. If you find one please do tell me so I may make amendments to the title and subject of my Hubsicle.

    • profile image

      AntonOfTheNorth 

      6 years ago

      @ philanthropy

      "Some would call that torture."

      Which one? Life or paradise?" :)

      cheers

      and just for clarity. . .

      "the definition of the Christian God, who is described (although Anton seems to somehow dispute this) as omnipotent and omniscient "

      What I dispute is that the christian god definition is universal to any an all gods of montheistic religions. Even christians don't agree on how their god expresses love, omnipotent or not.

      cheers

    • Philanthropy2012 profile image

      DK 

      6 years ago from London

      Interesting article! Voted up and Interesting :) I have never heard of this Sye and I will explore him.

      I would also like to share some knowledge.

      You bring up the idea of us knowing light's speed but not being certain of it's properties elsewhere, where we have not explored. I would like to bring to mind Axioms. Some things are definitely true and we can know for certainty what they are so. Hypothetical reasoning gives us certain knowledge. Squares have 4 sides, there can be a shape with 4 sides and the word "square" can be used to describe it. This is all irrefutable knowledge.

      Because we give words definitions. Those definitions are knowledge. In a sense, we create our own truth by using words. Or rather, we do not create them but discover them, and only then are they deemed by us to be true. We know that it is possible for squares to exist physically, there is nothing to stop a 4 sided object from being. Whether they physically exist is another question however. We may ourselves only be hypothetical and there is very little to disprove this.

      Although several philosophers will argue that we are not in existence, Certain hypothetical concepts exist. Such are the beauty of logic. Such is the beauty of the human mind.

      As Anton will tell you, I have created a hub using logic to prove that God does not exist entitled "God Is a Sadist", I use the axiom of "something that is all loving cannot be all powerful and all knowing at the same time if pain exists". This is a hypothetical concept that cannot exist and as such cannot exist in our world. I then use this axiom and link it with the definition of the Christian God, who is described (although Anton seems to somehow dispute this) as omnipotent and omniscient as well as all loving.

      (It is still not entirely clear to me but I believe Anton believes that the definition of the Christian God can vary. This is only true to the extent that some of his characteristics vary between the various Christian divisions (20,000+), but then the words "Christian God" are defined as "a God belonging to a certain Christian faith" and in order for something to reach the title of God, certain characteristics (omnipotence, omniscience and benevolence) must be met.)

      If you have time, I think I would appreciate your opinion on that particular hub:

      https://soapboxie.com/social-issues/God-Is-A-Sadis...

      Thanks a lot,

    • jocylean profile imageAUTHOR

      jocylean 

      6 years ago from Southern Tier, NY

      @AntonofTheNorth... Thanks, glad you liked it. I could never imagine calling my quest for knowledge good and living life no longer thirsting for more.

    • Philanthropy2012 profile image

      DK 

      6 years ago from London

      @AntonOfTheNorth

      Some would call that torture.

    • profile image

      AntonOfTheNorth 

      6 years ago

      Hey jocylean,

      I haven't seen the Sye interview, but was drawn to your last statement about lack of knowing, only because it echoes what I believe.

      Uncertainty plus curiosity = human (and perhaps some higher 'animals'

      If I were a creator and wanted to make seeking, intelligent beings, I would give them uncertainty and curiosity and turn them loose in a difficult environment.

      Paradise does not require me to think. . .

      cheers

    • jocylean profile imageAUTHOR

      jocylean 

      6 years ago from Southern Tier, NY

      Oh and check out my youtube page for more commentary...

      http://www.youtube.com/user/jocylean?feature=mhee

    • jocylean profile imageAUTHOR

      jocylean 

      6 years ago from Southern Tier, NY

      To be fair to Sye, all of this of course is without his defense of his statement, which I would welcome.

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