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Why Hell is Real

Updated on March 23, 2015
God's Word
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John Piper - Powerless Pulpits Deny the Existence of Hell

A Biblical Defense of the Doctrine of Hell

There is a movement to remove the doctrine of hell from Christianity. Many churches used to preach hell fire and brimstone. Now, churches rarely preach on the reality of hell anymore out of fear of offending someone or because it does not fit the version of god they created. One of the leaders of the emergent church, Rob Bell, wrote a book called “Love Wins”, in which he argues that there is not an eternal punishment for those who reject Christ and that God does not receive glory for by punishing someone in hell. This argument is full of problems when compared to what scripture actually says.

Biblical Interpretation Guidelines

Anyone one can take a verse of scripture and twist it to fit whatever theology they want. It is important to use proper Biblical hermeneutics, the science of interpreting the Bible. The Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry offers some suggestions to examine a passage of scripture.

  1. Look at who wrote the passage. Determine whom the author was writing.
  2. Read the passage and determine what it actually says.
  3. Do any words in the passage need to be examined further by using a New Testament dictionary or a concordance. As a word of caution, be careful not to change the context of any word that you look up.
  4. Read the context of the passage, a few verses before and after. Understand the passage as a whole. Is it a story with a meaning to be learned? Is it direct teaching?
  5. Look at the context of the chapter and book the passage appears in.
  6. Look at any related verses to the subject of the passage. How do they affect the meaning of the passage?
  7. Look at the historical background of the passage. When was it written? Are there any cultural influences affecting the meaning of the passage?
  8. Develop a conclusion about what the passage is saying.
  9. Test your conclusions against related areas of scripture. Also, test them against what others have said.
  10. Determine the application to your life.

The basic concept is to let scripture interpret scripture. Be careful not to include any biases when interpreting scripture. The most important thing is to ask God to help you understand what you are reading.

Do you believe in Hell?

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Biblical Words for Hell

There are three words commonly associated with hell in the Bible: Gehenna, Hades, and Sheol. Gehenna is the Old Testament word for hell. It was located outside of Jerusalem and was famous for pagan kings burned human sacrifices. In Aramaic, the word means “fireplace”. Jesus used this term twelve times in the New Testament referring to a condition and not an actual place. Hades is a holding area for everyone that has died apart from Christ while awaiting the Great White Throne Judgment. The story Jesus told of Lazarus and the rich man uses Hades when describing where the rich man is. Sheol has a few different meanings, but commonly refers to the grave.

The Case for Hell

I wish that there were no hell. I wish that everyone would go to heaven. Unfortunately, that is not what the Bible teaches.

Justice of Hell

John MacArthur on Hell

My Thinking on Hell

I was raised going to church so believing in hell is second nature to me, but I have come up with some logical arguments that layout the case that when answered, leave very little wiggle room.

  • If there is no hell, there can be no justice in life – Takes some time and think about that before going on. Hitler, Capone, Stalin, Bin Laden, Nero, etc. killed many, many people. Their lives are full of hate and wickedness. Did they have to pay for their wrongdoing in this life? No. So if there is no hell, how can all of the people that they killed receive justice? Better yet, if God is a God of love, how can He allow these wicked people to go unpunished? Would a judge be good if he let them go free?
  • If there is no hell, why was Jesus brutally beaten and crucified? – John 3:14-16 is an excellent verse for this, “Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him, shall not perish, but have eternal life.” If there is no hell, why did God give his only Son to die? The Bible does not make sense if there is no hell. The Old Testament talks about obedience to the law. The New Testament talks about forgiveness of sins. Why, if there is no hell? Logically, it does not make sense in light of scripture.
  • If there is no hell, why tell others about Jesus? – At the end of the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus told his disciples to go out into the whole world and preach the good news. What is the point if there is no hell and everyone gets to heaven anyway?

The Biblical Case for Hell

Character of God

The starting point for this discussion needs to be the character of God. We cannot approach this topic with human reasoning because we are not God. Isaiah 55:9 says, “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.” What is God like? God is love (1 John 4:8), God is holy (1 Samuel 2:2), God is righteous (Ezra 9:15), God is just (2 Thessalonians 1:6), God is all-knowing (1 John 3:20), God is Truth (John 14:6), and so much more. For our discussion sake, we need to focus on the fact that God is holy.

Erasing Hell - Francis Chan

God is Holy

Let us start by looking at a few verses. “He is a holy God; he is a jealous God” – Joshua 24:19. 1 Samuel 2:2 says, “There is no one holy like the Lord; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.” Isaiah 43:3 says, “For I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior.” What does it mean to be holy? Webster’s online dictionary defines holy as “Spiritually whole or sound; of unimpaired innocence and virtue; free from sinful affections; pure in heart.” Habakkuk explains this further, “Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrong” – Habakkuk 1:13. Holiness is perfection.

Humans are Sinful

Romans 3:23 helps to make the case for the necessity of hell, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” What is sin? It is anything that is contrary to the will of God. Think of the Ten Commandments as a starting point, but balance that against what Jesus taught. For example, if you look at a woman lustfully, you are guilty of committing adultery with her. Same with murder, if you are angry with your brother, you are guilty of murder. Jesus was teaching us that it is not only the overt act, but also the thoughts that can lead us into sin. The whole purpose of the Ten Commandments and the Old Testament law was to show us that we are sinners and have no hope of keeping the law. I wrote a hub a few months back called, “How can a loving God Send People to Hell?” that uses an example of a courtroom to explain the justice of hell.

Penalty for Sin

There is a verse in Psalms and another one in Romans that says that there is no one righteous, no not even one. Let us also look at Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life.” The death it is talking about is eternal separation from God, hell. Matthew 25:46 lays this out, “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Wrath of God

What Hell is Like?

Hell is worse than you can possible explain or imagine. It is a place of torment. It was originally created for the devil and his angels, but since man fell in the garden, we are now under judgment. “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?” Matthew 23:33. The Bible describes it as a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30). Is hell for eternity? John 25:46 gives us the answer, “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matthew adds that it is a fiery furnace (Matthew 13:42). Revelation 20:14 calls it a lake of fire. Mark (9:48 ESV) adds to the last two verses by saying that there is no death and that the fire is unquenched.

There is Hope

Hell is real and many people are going there. Jesus said that narrow is the road that leads to life and the road that leads to hell is broad. Unfortunately, most people are on the road to hell. 2 Peter 3:9 tells us that “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” That is why Jesus died on a cruel Roman cross over 2,000 years ago. God loves you so much that He will willing to kill His own Son on a cross so that you and I can be reconciled with Him. Jesus says in Revelation 3:20 says, “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.” Do you hear Him knocking? Accept his payment for your sins today and change your eternal destination to heaven to be with Him forever. Hallelujah!

My Hope is Found in Jesus Christ

You may be wondering how do I know I will go to heaven? I believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a perfect life (never having sinned), was crucified, rose again from the dead, and is alive forever more. My faith is in Jesus Christ to save me from my sins because I cannot save myself. My hope is in Him and Him alone. “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son Cross references: John 3:18.

Feel free to contact me or follow one of the links below for more information on accepting Christ as your Savior.

© 2012 Eric Cramer

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    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      And they will go away into AIONION (eionian, for a time) judgment and the righteos unto AIONION life. That's the kingdom age when Christ and His chosen will bring the world to righteousness through the GreatWhite Throne Lake of Fire Judgment. Once all r saved we will be given immortality, not eternal life as the church so dogmatically preaches. Christ, having eliminated the last enemy, death will then turn the kingdim over to the Father. I'm sure this sounds horrible to someone that can't stand the thought of Hitler, Stalan, That drunk guy who cut you off in traffic ever being saved. Oh, and Saul who freewilled (ha ha) himself to become paul. Sorry but it's scriptural. Ur sight will come when God is ready.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      God does not make a distinction between the Jews and the Gentiles. What Jesus taught applies to everyone, not just the Jews. The same with what Paul taught. It all weaves together perfectly.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      Your problem is directly with Christ. He was not just speaking to Jews, but to everyone. Gehenna is hell, it was a place out side of town where the fire never went out. Imagery for hell.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 2 years ago from Burlington

      My problem is not with Christ. He warned the Jews about the coming judgement from God through the use of the valley of Ben Hinnom. If Gehenna is hell, why isn't the valley of Ben Hinnom not translated to hell in the old testament?

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      The problem is that Jesus preached about hell over and over again. Your argument is with Him.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 2 years ago from Burlington

      You know exactly why I am angry because I already told you, but if your memory is bad, I will say it again. You have maligned our Father's name and nature with your vile hub. You are no different than the tax collector's who desecrated the temple with their presence.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      Sword - You do not know what real terrorism is or you would not be using it so flippantly. Talk to the Kenyan believers who were slaughtered at the hands of ISIS. They will tell you what terrorism really is.

      Let's say that you are right and I am wrong. What happens? Everyone goes to heaven and is happy. Not sure why you are so angry then???

      If I am right and you are wrong, then there are people who are going to suffer for eternity because they do not know Jesus. That is why I write about hell, because I do not want to see anyone go there.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      Hell No - Show me how I took Matthew 25:46 out of context?????? Garbage theology? Really? Jesus talked extensively about hell.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 2 years ago from Burlington

      According to them, they will rejoice in watching the dammed eternally burning in agony (Luke 16). It sums it up why they defend this doctrine of demons. Look at what Andrea Yates did to her 5 children. She sacrificed her soul according to hell wishers to save her 5 children from going to hell. A PERFECT RESULT OF SPIRITUAL TERRORISM!!!. Anyone who writes hubs about hell fire is also guilty of the death of those 5 children.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      It's the hellers who r most guilty of taking scripture out of context. Revelation is a book of symbles, yet hellers think the lake of fire is literal fire that conciously burns the lost forever. Garbage theology.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 2 years ago from Burlington

      the difference is that I know how to read scripture, you don't.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      No, you can't just add things that are not there. This passage has nothing to do with Judea. All you ever do is to twist scripture away from what it actually says and it to whatever is convenient for what you are trying to prove.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 2 years ago from Burlington

      2 Thess 1 is about judgement on Judea. Do you even know how to read scripture? You most defiantly can't keep it in its context. Do you even know what the Kingdom of God is?

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      Sword & Hell No:

      Paul wrote about hell in 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10

      "5All this is evidence that God's judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9THEY WILL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION AND SHUT OUT FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD AND FROM THE MAJESTY OF HIS POWER on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who believed. This includes you, because YOU BELIEVED our testimony to you."

      Verses 8 & 9 are clear.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      Hell No - You have 100s of scriptures that are taken out of context. You can make the Bible say anything you want it to if you do not care what other words are around it. Again, that is no different than me saying that I am going to give everyone $1,000, without asking who am I directing my comments towards. If I am speaking to two people it would only be two people, not everyone universally. Context is the key.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      Just read this scripture from a believer of hell fire.

      Ephesians 2:8-10

      Care to explain free will in accordance with this scripture? I have tons of scriptures destroying hell, eternal and free will. This isn't even one of them.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      Speaking of paul, wasn't he a christian oppressor and murderer when he was saul? Why isn't he sceaming in hell fire at this very moment. Oh that's right, it was his free will that blinded him on the way to damascus. He changed his own heart because god will do no such thing.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 2 years ago from Burlington

      If Paul would agree with you about hell, where in his letters does he warn the gentiles about it. My proof that he would rebuke you is that you follow another gospel than the one Paul brought us, so please show me proof that he would agree with you.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      Showing hellers hundreds of scriptures means nothing to them. Showing them that OT and NT teach universal salvation means nothing to yall.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      Just because you will not do something, has zero effect on what God does or does not do. God's holiness requires sin to be punished. Yes, He did send Jesus to die for our sins, however, the New Testament makes it clear that if we do not believe in Jesus, we are still under God's wrath.

      John 3:18, 36 context being born again

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      Picking random verses and using it to prove your case, just proves that you do not know how to interpret Scripture.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      2 samuel 24:14

      Y did samuel prefer the judgment of God over that of man?

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      I follow no worldly church of men. Ive written several hubs prooving that the hell doctrine is unscriptural. I may c about making sure they are published. Don't really have the time these days. But hellers are many and they do not understand the scriptures. If u think i'm arrogant for insisting God is not a monster Who would allow eternal suffering then so be it.

    • profile image

      SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

      Hell No, I have an idea... Why don't you start your own blog and take "the like you" with you to that "nonexistent hell." That will make it much easier for everyone. You are arrogantly accusing everyone of cluelessness... What makes you think you are correct? Definitely not the pure word of the Living God! Who has bewitched you? I bet you are feeding on some watered-down, modern, catholic perversions. The results speak for themselves.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      No, those that really know what they r talking about and have a thorough spiritual understanding of scripture should tell the world. But apparently u missed the part about many called and few chosen. The few r very few. Not 2 billion church going christians who r indoctrinated into a turn or burn monstrosity. Turn to god or he will hurt u forever. What corrupted heresy that is. The reason so few know the truth is "to them it was not given to understand". That's speaking of the parables. You r clueless. Like the many before you. And i wouldn't burn my worst enemy for 30 seconds. How much better am i than ur sick twisted, unscriptural and fabled god? Notice god is lower cased here.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      So go and tell the whole world is a corruption of time? What is the point? No the most evil heresy of all is telling people that they are going to heaven, when in fact there headed to hell. The most loving and compassionate thing you can do is to try and tell them the truth.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      I wouldn't call most evangelism today a waste of time. I would call it a corruption of time. As in, they as urself teach the most evil heressy ever. Aion, aions, aionios and aions of the aions r all in the greek. Check e sword.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      Sword that has nothing to do with hell. Paul would agree with me. His devotion to spreading the Gospel cost him his life. If there is no hell, Paul suffered and died in vain. God is not a terrorist. He is holy, holy, holy. He is not love, love, love, but fully holy. He cannot tolerate sin. If people do not accept Jesus as their atonement for their sin, God's wrath remains on them. John 3:18,36. God's offers forgiveness, but people have to receive it. Peter and Judas are a great example. Peter disowned Jesus but yet repented of it. Judas betrayed Jesus, and did not repent. Jesus said that it would be better for Judas if he had not been born. For that to be true, Jesus was not talking about this life because Judas hanged himself. No, Jesus was speaking about eternal punishment.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      No shame on you for telling people that they will be saved, when if they do not turn to Christ, they will suffer in hell for eternity. That is why the New Testament focus is on spreading the Gospel to the lost. If everyone is to be saved, evangelism is a waste of time and effort. Yes, Jesus instructs us to tell the whole world about Him. God wills that none will be lost, but that does not mean that God will not allow people to choose their own eternal destination. Forcing someone to be in heaven when they want nothing to do with God would in and of itself be Hell. God did not will that Adam and Eve sinned, though he allowed it. God allowed Satan to have free will to choose to exalt himself over God. The world you are mistranslating is aionion, not aions. It appears in all of the verses about hell. It is translated as "everlasting". Paul warned people about teaching a different Gospel and he said let them be cursed.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 2 years ago from Burlington

      When John and James wanted to call fire down on the Samaritans' heads because they did not believe Jesus was the Son of God, who did Jesus condemn, His disciples or the Samaritans for not believing the Gospel directly from the apostles' own mouth? (Luke9:55-56)

      If the apostle Paul were here right now, he would rebuke you ercramer for making the heavenly Father a hypocritical terrorist.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      Its righteous indignation. Remember, it is my stance that you are calling the creator of everything a satanic terrorist. No, those translations are not consistent. I explain in my hub about eternal just how inappropriately these words are used. Read it and you will see. Once the term aions was translated world so that it couldn't be implied that aions have beginning. The examples of faulty translation are numerous and obvious if you look into it. Hell is no different. How can someone be turned into hell? The corrected translation is return as in you will return to the unseen from which you came. To dust. You think i'm angry for nothing? No, the discusting world of chritiandom feeds humanity this swill. You will find out what the real God thinks in time. And shame on you if you teach this to any children.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      Matthew 25:46 also describes this with a distinction between believers and non-believers

      "They they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

      Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

      These two verses are in the context of the 2nd coming of Christ. Matthew calls them cursed that are going into the "eternal" fire. The Greek word is "aiōnion", which means indeterminate as to duration, eternal, everlasting. So the Bible translators are not wrong, their translation is correct.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      No, they are translated properly. They are consistent across all translations. Why are you so angry? I don't care if you have been through every single verse, that does not make you right. Everlasting punishment can only be taken one way.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      Concordant beats them all. Eternal and forever are probably the worst translations in any "bible". I never said the kj was the best. Hell always meant to cover. Hades means unseen. Again, bad translation. But it never meant concious punishmeant. Dead people go to hades to await ressurection. Some are ressurected to life, the rest to aionian (eonian) judgemeant. Lake of fire is never another word for hell nor is it literal fire. Iv'e been through every single verse hellers use to try to prove their eternal torment heresy. I will bet that you don't even know all of the ones that speak of the truth. And it's because you need that hell doctrine to be true. It is not though.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      lol The King James is far from the most accurate translation. The NASB is a word for word translation from the Greek from much older manuscripts:

      "4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the [a]knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:4 NASB

      Here is a KJV verse for you:

      46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Matthew 25:46

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      And now he only wants. The scripture you mention above is supposed to say "Who will have all men to be saved". And btw, if He wants it He will have it. Ur changes words does nothing to hurt the truth of Universal salvation.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      The gospel that I follow is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved. Unfortunately, many will not.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      In 1 Timothy 2, Paul is writing Timothy instructions on Worship.

      "1I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone-- 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth. 5For these is one God and one mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time. . .8I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing" 1 Timothy 2:1-6, 8

      Look at the verses before and after. Paul is clearly teaching on worship here. Yes, the passage does say that God WANTS ALL MEN to be saved, but it does not say all men will be saved. You are inserting your presupposition into your interpretation. The passage does not teach that. It does say that Jesus is the ransom for all, but it does not say that all we accept the ransom.

      "21 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” Mark 14:21

      This passage only makes sense in the light of an eternal hell. As we know, Judas betrayed Jesus and then hanged himself shortly after. The only way Jesus' words would be true, is if there is an eternal hell where Judas will suffer.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 2 years ago from Burlington

      These hell wishers don't follow the Gospel of mercy and forgiveness, they follow the mosaic gospel of vengeance. An eye for an eye. That is why they defend this vile gospel.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      1 Tim 2:3-6

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      "My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you. When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness." Isaiah 26:9

      This whole chapter is a song of praise to God for his deliverance of Israel. This has nothing to do with eternity. God judgments/discipline teach people righteousness. Like a parent disciplining a child. I suggest that you read Malachi 4.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      Start with isaiah 26:9

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      I have several hubs on all of it. With scriptures.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      Too bad you do not have Scripture to back any of this nonsense up. When interpreting a passage of Scripture, you have to look at the surrounding context and not just at a single word.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      Eternal is mistranslated, forever is mistranslated, hell is mistranslated, scriptures never call heaven a place and the LOF is where the unsaved will be judged and ultimately saved. Lots of hellers need their wicked beliefs burned out of them. The scriptures r never crystal clear to the spirtually blind. Which hellers are.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      Ultimate salvation is a myth. It is not biblical. Jesus preached more about hell than He did about heaven. He taught that it was everlasting torment that will not end. I refer you to John 3:18, 36. Also Revelation 20:10-15. These are only a few references, but they are crystal clear.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      Hey, u should change the title of this hub to "why i want hell to be real". Speaking in the second person of course.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 2 years ago from Burlington

      They are hell wishers.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      The scriptures are crystal clear on the ultimate salvation of all. Though judgment must come first, especially for hellers such as edwards, piper, and i guess you.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 2 years ago from Chicagoland

      The Bible is crystal clear on the judgment of God. Whoever believes in Christ has eternal life, whoever does not, God's wrath remains on him (John 3:36)

    • profile image

      Hell N0 2 years ago

      For every knee will bow, ha!! So ur one of those who thinks the issue will be forced at that time? I love it. Leg breakung time hu. Not sure who is more blasphis: the late john edwards, john piper or u. I'm calling it a tie.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      I agree, but I also believe that we are all one with God the Father.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 4 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Sword,

      Perhaps you could visit a hub on God and Love and come to an understanding why I say we are in agreement. I would suggest this hub: Who is God? God is in you. You are a part of God But those would just be my opinions.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      And how does that relate to this hub? He believes that not all are saved. He believes that those who do not go to heaven when they die go to a place called hell. I do not believe this. The hell we make on earth is war, greed, and famine because we Christians who form this world have made a mess of things by not making the kingdom of God visible to the heathen.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 4 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Sorry: "There are two realities of hell. One, the reality of hell in the hidden desires of Christians hearts against those who they feel deserve to go there, and two, the hell we make here on earth."

      The "hell we make on earth", seems pretty clear to me.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      I haven't agreed to anything about this hub, and I don't know what you are talking about about me sending a group of people anywhere?

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 4 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Fantastic you just agreed with the author of this hub. You just have a different group of people you would send there. Actually if you cut out the hyperbole you are talking about the same folks. And if you read what I have said it is the same folks.

      Knowing the Love and rejecting it results in a condition that results in our removal and distancing ourselves from Love and,, existence without Love is hell.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      Those who reject God's love don’t even know Him. As a matter of fact, there are a lot of self proclaimed Christians who don’t know Him. There are two realities of hell. One, the reality of hell in the hidden desires of Christians hearts against those who they feel deserve to go there, and two, the hell we make here on earth. God allows us all to be disobedient so in the end, He can show us His mercy. The reason why most refuse to believe is not their fault. The fault lies with us Christians and our "Turn or burn" warnings while at the same time we tell them that God loves them. I saw a video of George Carlen on religion on YouTube and I have to admit that I laughed. His point made perfect sense. They won't believe because we have been poor examples as Christians for the last 1800 years. Something they don’t teach in church is that in the beginning of the time of the apostles until it was banned by the catholic church 300 and some years later is that almost all believers believed in the universal reconciliation of all with God. Universal salvation is and only is the Good news. God created three festivals for the Israelites. Feast of Passover (Pesach), Feast of Weeks (Pentecost or Shavuot), and the Feast of Booths (Tabernacles or Sukkoth). These three feasts were made for the Israelites to show us all what Gods plan for mankind is. The Passover is symbolic for the lamb of God, Christ, who was first in heaven with our Father. Weeks is symbolic for we believers and finally in the end, Booths, which is symbolic for the harvest of all things (the rest of all mankind).

      1Cor 15: 22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.

      23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.

      1Tim 4:9-11.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 4 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Yes God is always there. So your quote is nice. Nothing can separate us from God. And so that is true. But what we can do is separate ourselves from that Love that is so freely given by refusing it. When we refuse God's Love then we move forth without it. When we do that we create our own hell. For what ever reason people do chose to reject God's Love.

      I thank you for helping me realize there are people who do not even consider that hell. How strange to my way of thought. But yes I do know such people. Those who know of the Love but reject it.

      Perhaps you can explain why they do that.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      You wrote " it abundantly clear that Hell is a separation of one from the Love that God". But in the KJV it says the opposite " If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there. Psalms 139:8, so your theology about your belief of total separation from God in the afterlife is off. Christ gave us two commandments to love God above all, and to love one another as we do ourselves, but Christians like you have added a new commandment that we must except Christ as our saviour when in fact, it is not us who choose God, it is Him who chooses us (John 15:16). You may of not taught about your belief of hell to anyone, but you so ardently defend it as part of the false gospel taught in the church. The apostle Paul never taught such a gospel. He taught the Gospel of reconciliation of all things with God, but you defend a different gospel than the one Paul taught. Nobody chooses to go to a pit of eternal horror to be tortured. That is absurd. This belief was adopted by the catholic church around AD500 and forced on believers. Today, very very few know that God has forgiven all the sins of the earth, because it is not in our carnal nature that easy to forgive those who trespass against us. So we view God with this same condition. We are to be beacons of love for God as examples for the world, and if we had done what was expected from us, there would be less people rejecting the faith.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 4 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      That is truly beautiful. I did not cast any spew of a fiery hell. I make it abundantly clear that Hell is a separation of one from the Love that God provides for all. Love is what is good. To not know it is sad. To reject it means a state of being that is void of goodness and that is hell. God does not cast anyone to hell. People chose it. Life or death in the absence of the Glory of Love is a wasteland, a space of unimaginable thirst that cannot be quenched except by the acceptance of Love that is freely given. You are saved but in order to avoid the consequences of a Life filled without the Love of Christ you have to Love. Even if your mouth throws flames of hatred and terror if there is love in you, even an imperfect Love, there is hope, charity, faith and joy and hence no hell. I will not condemn, God will not condemn or reject you, only you can reject that Love, and condemn yourself to live and die without Love.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      Hey brother Eric. I'll tell you what is gobbledygook. The belief that a deity who loves his creation demands us to love him, repent, follow his laws, except his son as our saviour, or he will cast us into a hole of eternal horror to be eternally tortured for being born and call it holy justice. That is the greatest gobbledygook created by man. What I do is expose the teachings of spiritual terrorists that makes God the exact opposite of what He truly is and I never capitalize the word hell, or of the name of a pagan god. And yes, these teachings are forced on us and yes I left the church and its foolish nonsense. The greatest threat to Christ's ecclesia today are theologians as they interpret scripture based on their carnal desires and carnal ways of thinking. You all spew your filth about your beliefs of hell, but ignore the teachings from Paul about reconciliation of all things with God. You all say God demands justice, but it is you hypocrites with your moloch pharisaical mentality that demands justice. You with your itchy ears want justice served against the unbelievers. You teach that God commands us to love, bless and forgive our enemies while you set our heavenly Father as the standard as to how He will treat His enemies making Him look like a hypocritical tyrant of a god to the heathen. You haven't got a clue as to how much love Christ has for us as you limit His love and don’t want to believe that all are saved especially us believers.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 4 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Sword – No church is forcing anything down your throat – that is gobbledygook. No one is forcing anything on you here,,, not your hub. And the question here is not, was not and will not be about the origins of our modern day word hell which is all encompassing. This hub is not about stages of hell or a perfect description of a physical place, or even Hel. (which through respect should be capitalized)

      The hub clearly is about the alternative to choosing the Love which is Jesus Christ over rejecting that Love. To very many folks living or dying without that Love would be a hell either during our life or after our death. Hell is a real concept in that sense.

      You do not know that Love which is Jesus Christ. It would therefore stand to reason that you do not consider life or death without that Love hell. That is cool for you. Why would you consider that hell which you cherish and profess? You make perfect sense for you. But do not tell me that I cannot feel sorry for you. I do and in fact that is none of your business. Remember you came here the author and I did not come to your hub.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      Hell on earth is more a reality than the hell the church forces down our throats. But the question here is, how was the word hell added into doctrine when the words it replaced in certain versions had different meanings and purposes. If I said to someone in England, "Go to hell" 500 years ago, I would have to add "and grab me some potatoes please". The norse pagan goddess of the underworld was called hel btw.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 4 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Putting a "real" notion in this hub is unfortunate. Most people do not quite get the concept of real when it comes to matters of the heart, faith and Love. For instance a cartoon is called "not real" because it is an animation -- But very clearly it is a real cartoon. Hell is not real any more than a Gray Bearded guy is really sitting in a throne with Paul guarding the gates of entrance. Those are symbolisms to help us speak of that which languagee is very poor of speaking of.

      I think most people are wise enough to know what their own hell is. For me it would be isolation from love due to mental incapacity. I imagine guilt and regret would be part of my hell. Physical pain is relative and it it were my only reality it would cease to be pain.

      Do I believe that Jesus who is Love can protect me from that hell? Absolutely. If you do not know that Love which is Jesus, well that may be a problem.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      That doesn't explain anything about what Paul said in (Rom. 5:18) and your belief of hell. As a matter of fact, Paul who taught the true Gospel of the reconciliation of all never once warned the gentiles about a place called hell. You accuse me of taking one statement and creating a doctrine from it is hilarious. There are more than just one statement, here are just a few from the old testament.

      1) Isa 46:10

      2) Dan 4:35

      3) Prov 16:9

      4) Prov 19:21

      5) Prov 16:33

      6) Psa 37:23

      7) Psa 33:10

      8) Psa 33:15

      9) Job 5:17-18

      10) Hos 6:1-2

      11) Deut 32:39

      12) Psa 90:3

      13) Jer 18:2-6

      14) Lam 3:31-32

      15) Psa 102:18-20

      16) Isa 2:2

      17) Joel 3:21

      18) Gen 18:18

      19) Isa 45:22

      20) Isa 45:23

      21) Isa 40:3-5

      22) Psa 138:4

      23) Psa 72:17

      24) Psa 86:9

      25) Isa 52:10

      26) Psa 65:2-4

      27) Isa 11:9

      28) Psa 66:3-4

      29) Isa 19:14-25

      30) Ezk 16:55

      31) Psa 68:18

      32) Isa 54:5

      33) Psa 22:25-29

      34) Psa 145:9-10

      35) Psa 145:14

      36) Psa 145:15

      37) Psa 145:16

      38) Psa 145:9

      39) Psa 145:10

      40) Psa 24:1

      41) Isa 25:6

      42) Isa 25:7

      43) Isa 25:8

      44) Isa 25:8

      45) Jer 32:35

      46) Psa 135:6

      47) Isa 26:9

      48) Isa 53:11

      49) Gen 12:3

      And a few from the New testament as well.

      1) Eph 1:11

      2) 1 Tim 2:4

      3) John 8:29

      4) 1 John 4:14

      5) John 4:34

      6) John 12:47

      7) 1 Tim 2:6

      8) John 5:36

      9) John 4:42

      10) John 12:32

      11) Heb 7:25

      12) Col 1:15

      13) Col 1:16

      14) Rom 5:15-21

      15) 1 Cor 15:22

      16) Eph 1:10

      17) 1 Cor 15:26

      18) Philippians 2:9-11

      19) 1 Cor 12:3

      20) Rom 11:26

      21) Acts 3:20-21

      22) Luke 2:10

      23) Eph 2:7

      24) Heb 8:11-12

      25) Luke 3:6

      26) Titus 2:11

      27) Rom 8:19-21

      28) Col 1:20

      29) 1 Cor 4:5

      30) James 5:11

      31) Rev 15:4

      32) 2 Cor 5:17

      33) Rom 11:32

      34) Rom 11:36

      35) Eph 4:10

      36) Rev 5:13

      37) 1 Cor 15:28

      38) Rev 21:4-5

      39) John 5:25

      40) John 5:28

      41) John 6:39

      42) John 6:12

      43) 1 Cor 3:15

      44) Mark 9:49

      45) 2 Cor 5:15

      46) 1 John 2:2

      47) Rom 11:15

      48) Heb 1:2

      49) John 3:35

      50) John 17:2

      51) John 6:44-45

      52) 1 Tim 4:9-11

      53) Acts 13:47

      54) Gal 3:8

      55) Matt 18:11

      56) Matt 18:14

      57) John 1:7

      58) John 1:29

      59) John 3:17

      60) John 6:51

      61) Col 1:28

      62) 2 Peter 3:9

      63) 1 John 2:2

      This is the funny part, you take the words of Christ and try to interpret them with your carnal minded way of thinking and think you get a doctrine? You forget when He said these words and who He spoke to. This is evidence of having a religious pharisaical spirit in you that believes most of God's creation is eternally dammed and you can live with that? It is called the Moloch mentality. How do you worship this deity you believe in ,thinking it is possible that a relative or close family member may be eternally tortured and your deity does nothing about it? Because you think we have a free will, and have the nerve to call it free when in fact according to your beliefs the price of having a FREE will, will be more than most can bear in the end. So in the reality to your free will is that there is nothing free about it. So what is the wage of sin now, death or eternal torture? My understanding of death is unconscious sleep in our graves, but you would twist theology and change Paul's teachings to support your beliefs? Don’t concern yourself, as it is not your fault you have been institutionalized by your foolish theologians who haven't a clue to as who God truly is.

    • ercramer36 profile image
      Author

      Eric Cramer 4 years ago from Chicagoland

      I agree only a moron would not get saved, but that they will. It is still a choice. People choose to stay in their homes when they are threatened by wild fires and hurricanes when most people would leave.

      Your analogy is not what Jesus did. He would have been killed by the bear as he was for our sins. You would still have the choice to leave the area or stay there.

      Taking one statement from Paul and creating doctrine with it is dangerous. Especially when he taught about the need to be saved. Look at the following verses from the New Testamet:

      “I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the gentile.” Romans 1:16

      “But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.” Romans 3:21-26

      “Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.” Romans 4:4-5

      “I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.” Mark 3:28-29

      “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matthew 25:46

      John 3:36 “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.” John 3:36 (Jesus)

      “If anyone’s name was not found in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:15 Verse 14 tells us that the Lake of Fire is the second death (Eternity).

      Paul in 2 Corinthians 13:5 says to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? " Why do we have to see if we are in the faith if there is no hell?

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      If Hell is real and most of mankind is doomed to go there, does that not violate the declaration of Paul who said that Christ's righteous act on the cross gave ALL mankind a free gift resulting in justification of life?! (Rom. 5:18).

      BTW, only a moron would refuse to get saved from being stranded on an island and your anology is ilogical. Mine is sound.

    • ercramer36 profile image
      Author

      Eric Cramer 4 years ago from Chicagoland

      Sword:

      God will not force anyone to love him. Salvation is a gift and like any other type of gift you have to decided whether or not to accept it.

      For example, mankind is stranded on an island that is surrounded by rising waters that will eventually cover the island. God sends a helicopter to rescue the people on the island. We agree to this point of the story. However, the people on the island have to choose to climb into the helicopter to be saved. So it is with sinful man. Jesus died for our sins, but we need to choose to trust him as our savior.

      "36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.” John 3:36

      This verse is clear. Accept the gift and you will be saved. Reject it and you are still under God's wrath.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      Ericdierker

      Two people were taking a hike in the forest when a Grizzley bear started to charge them. A hunter (Christ) saw this, and shot the bear dead saving both hikers whether they wanted to be saved or not. This is the gloriouse Good news that I found in the bible. To sad that you can't see it.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 4 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      SwordofManticorE,

      Two well off men walk into a homeless person shelter. Both men drop their jaw at what they see. The first says "my God this is terrible all these down and out folk". The second says "my God this is wonderful, never have I seen so many help so many = This is Glorious"

      Me, I say God did a great job. But maybe not for you.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      If God sent His son to save the world, according to your beliefs, He failed miserably.

    • FSlovenec profile image

      Frank Slovenec 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA

      Very well done... 3:16 God so loved the world ... 17 For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world but to save it" If there was no Hell the price of salvation would have been sliver in the finger..Jesus gave it all so that we might live. Thank you

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 5 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      ecramer36, I have great fear of the Lord. And I have fear of him now in my lifetime. But I do not do or believe for God out of fear. All that is for God is done in Love. I do not suggest for others to, or strive for goodness in my life out of fear. Hell is real. That which tortures a soul during this life or after are their own deeds. One thing I do know about hell is that it is not my judgment that matters only my Love.

    • ercramer36 profile image
      Author

      Eric Cramer 5 years ago from Chicagoland

      Yes every knee will bow ans every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, but most will be forced to do it, meaning they rejected Jesus as their savior. If there is no hell, then why do we even have a Bible if everyone is saved in the end? Why should I live for Christ now if I will be saved either way? Punishment can be corrective or punative. If I commit murder, locking me up for life is punative, not corrective. Wiping out Sodom & Gomorrah was punative not corrective.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 5 years ago from Burlington

      @Eric, all knees will bow and tonuge confess that Christ is Lord. All of us will be reconciled back to God. The doctrine of eternal punishment was created by the church. Not God. It was created by the false interpretations of verses that they quote so much to justify their worship. After all, isn't Punishment corrective instead of vindictive?

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 5 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      In my personal sphere this makes perfect sense to me. And I believe it. But the questioner in me asks the clear question, that is begged here: The term "do not accept" shows an apriori invitation. Clearly that is an invitation to join Christ, made by Christ. There are many ways to accept an invitation. Sometimes it is just by not saying no, and sometimes just showing up, and sometimes a written acceptance and sometimes just an oral one. I think we must remain open to the fact that some will be invited after death.

    • ercramer36 profile image
      Author

      Eric Cramer 5 years ago from Chicagoland

      Context is everything. You can’t just pull a verse without taking into consideration the context of the verse. You would not do reading any other book, so why would you do it with the Bible?

      Here is the whole passage:

      “15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

      21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[g] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.” Colossians 1:15-23

      This whole passage is talking about the supremacy of Christ. Paul is speaking to believers in the church at Colossae. Verse 23 conflicts with all being saved because it says “If you continue in your faith.” Meaning that if you do not continue in your faith you will not be reconciled. If you do not have faith, you are not reconciled.

      Romans 11:32 refers to Israel coming to salvation after the full number of gentiles have been saved. Paul in no way is saying that everyone will be saved. He writes in Romans 2:1-16 says,

      “2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

      5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

      12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.”

      Paul talks about God’s righteous judgment in the preceding verses. In verse 5 & 6, it talks about God’s wrath. If God simply forgives everyone then why would he Paul write about his wrath?

      Peter writes in 2 Peter 2:4-9:

      “4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness[b] to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.”

      Peter talks about the day of judgment, which is also mentioned in Revelations. Scripture starts out by telling us about how man fell into sin in Genesis 3. The rest of the Old Testament was written to prove that we cannot keep God’s standards and that we fall short. It also tells of a coming savior. The New Testament tells us about Jesus coming to earth, living a perfect life, and dying in our place. He was resurrected on the third day and has ascended to heaven. It also tells us that we have a choice to make. “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12. The context of the verse is Peter and John standing before the Sanhedrin. The verse clearly says that we must be saved, not that we are saved. If we do not accept Jesus, we are not saved. If we are not saved, we are still under sin. If we are under sin, we are under God’s judgment (Rom 6:23).

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 5 years ago from Burlington

      Oh really? So all does not mean all to you? Then explain this.

      "For God has consigned ALL men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon ALL" (Rom. 11:32, RSV)

      or this...

      1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

    • ercramer36 profile image
      Author

      Eric Cramer 5 years ago from Chicagoland

      The context of that version is to the church not unbelievers. Paul is talking to the church in Colossae. The verse that you quoted speaks of believers only.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 5 years ago from Burlington

      I only need one.

      Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 5 years ago from Chicagoland

      Saying that Matthew 25 and Revelation 20 speak about the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 is perverting the text. You cannot honestly read Matthew 25:31-46 and come to that conclusion.

      “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all of the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.” Matthew 25:31-33

      There is no way possible to interpret that other than what it says. It cannot be the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 because the Son of Man has not come in his glory and gathered all of the nations together. What you are saying is a clear perversion on the text.

      “Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and book were opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:11-15

      This text is talking about judgment on individuals not Israel or Judaism. You cannot make this text say what you want it to say. Plus, most scholars date the book of Revelations after AD 70. The date that is most commonly used is AD 95.

      The fact is that hell is real and if you do not accept Jesus you will go there. “Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.” John 3:18.

      If you think I am wrong, use specific verses to prove your case, not generalities.

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      Eric Cramer 5 years ago from Chicagoland

      Isaiah 55:8-9 states that “’For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares the Lord. ‘For as the heavens are higher than the earth. So are My ways higher than your ways. And My thoughts than your thoughts.’” God way of thinking is different than ours. You are coming at this from a human perspective, not God’s. The Bible is clear that God is Holy and Righteous. It is also clear that God takes His holiness very seriously. For example, when God made Moses remove his shoes when He appeared to Moses in a burning bush. God’s nature will not let sin go unpunished. Hell is justice to God. If God were to overlook sin, He would go against His nature. The Bible says in Romans 3:23, “For all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory.” It also says in Psalms and Romans, that there is no one who does good, no not one. John 3:16 says that “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish, but have eternal life.” John 3:36 takes it another step “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever, rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.” My question to you is, if there is no hell why did Jesus have to die on the cross for the sins of the world? Why did he suffer? Why did Jesus say after Judas betrayed him that he would have been better off if he had not been born? If there is no hell, none of this makes sense.

      Romans 10:9 “That is you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Think about that verse for a second. There is another side to it that is unsaid. What happens if you do not believe in Jesus?

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      SwordofManticorE 5 years ago from Burlington

      Matt 24 and 25 along with Rev 20 is about the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish religion a second time. If you take a symbolic book like revelations and interpret it literally, it is only natural that you get your theology. What you interpret as an underworld of horror, actually means the end of the age of the old covenant. Are you willing to learn more on this topic, or do you actually believe that what you wrote in this hub is truth and don’t need to hear any more of what I have to say? Because most of what you wrote in this hub is full of errors and it contradicts the real nature of God.

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      Eric Cramer 5 years ago from Chicagoland

      Matthew 25 and Revelation 20 are straightforward in what they are saying. Their meaning is clear and supported by the surrounding context. It is important to not interpret the Bible based on your presuppositions, let the Bible interpret the Bible. It is critical to look at the entire context of what the passage is saying. The context of each says that people who do not have their names written in the book of lufe are going to Hell. Accepting Jesus as your savior is the only way to do that.

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      SwordofManticorE 5 years ago from Burlington

      The fact is there is no hell.

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      Eric Dierker 5 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Sword, that is a totally different matter than this hub. My comment was not to the justification but as to the existence. I think we may get off track if I respond further.

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      SwordofManticorE 5 years ago from Burlington

      @Eric, answer this then. How does eternally torturing anyone glorify God's purpose, pleasure, love and mercy?

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      Eric Dierker 5 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      One of my favorite facets of this important debate is the proof of hell that cannot be ignored. I take a startling example, although there are many aspects of Hell on Earth. The severely emotionally disturbed. Their reality is one without hope and without faith. A prisoner forever.

      I do not judge why they are so condemned, but I know what hell is when I see it. Their condition is scientifically provable. Why would it not be possible for a condition like that to continue after life?

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      SwordofManticorE 5 years ago from Burlington

      These verses you quoted suffer the most speculative interpretations, and many religious leaders base their false doctrines upon it. And you are just as guilty endorsing these doctrines of demons. God commands us to love, bless and forgive our enemies unconditionally, but you would have me believe that God sets the example for us as how He treats His enemies by eternally torturing them and call this justice.

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      Eric Cramer 5 years ago from Chicagoland

      The Bible is clear that hell is real and if you do not know Jesus, you will spend eternity in hell.

      Matthew 25:31-46 - Jesus describes that the sheep (his people) and the goats (unsaved people) will be eternally separated.

      "Then he will say to those on his left,"Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:40

      "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the great righteous to eternal life." Matthew 25:46

      Those are the words of Jesus, not my words. In Revelation 20, the Bible tells about the Great White Throne judgment. All of the living and the dead will be judged on whether they knew Jesus or not.

      "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."Matthew Revelation 20:15

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      SwordofManticorE 5 years ago from Burlington

      Hell only exists in the hidden desires of the heart of Christians for those who reject God.

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      Eric Cramer 5 years ago from Chicagoland

      Thanks Rick! I agree totally. God bless you!

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      Ricksterg 5 years ago from Lexington, S.C.

      Ecrcramer36 Jesus Christ is the Son of God which makes him God...He preached more on Hell and money than any other subject. People who say that focusing on the negative is wrong and doesn't show love live in a fantasy. God has put warning signs out there and confirmed it in His word. You my friend have nailed the argument to the wall. I commend you on your bravery and ask that you do not stop! The fact that you received comments is saying that people are listening even though they may not like what you say; truth is truth. Thank you again.....Rick

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      Rand Zacharias 5 years ago from Kelowna, British Columbia

      Your hub is a straight line explanation of the propaganda that Christianity professes. You nailed it.

      The problem is that there is no proof of this philosophy...it just doesn't work. It has scared million and billions into falling under the control of an authoritative ministry that just wants to tell people how to live...when indeed...with a little education--they could learn how quite well without the "fear factor" of human machinations.

      I hope that one day you can unlearn the brainwashing of your youth and live a life of love, without judgement, show tolerance for those who need it...and not worry about your mortal soul.

      Enjoy your life, my friend, because after it's over...the worms will be feasting on all that remains. Hell is very much in the mind...and if it's not...go out and do something other than wasting your efforts on something that just doesn't exist.

      Develop some talents...be a good servant and serve the fatherless, the weak and the widowed...physically. The natural law of love focuses on the positive, not judgment, not Hell...not even heaven...just kindness and gentleness...there's enough Hell on earth when one looks around at Man's inhumanity to Man.

      I won't be back...just thought I'd give you my two cents...I lived 30 years of this kind of fearful existence...I unlearned the doctrinal lies of my youth...pushed upon me by uneducated authority figures...it's a sad way to make a living.

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      Eric Cramer 5 years ago from Chicagoland

      I know what you are saying. My approah was not to prove hell exists in a scientific sense. I laid out reasons that hell does exist based on what the Bible.

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      Eric Dierker 5 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      If you are using the Bible to prove something you do your self and the subject a disservice. This is one of those concepts that drive logical people crazy. Only to someone who already has faith can the bible be used as proof. You see because someone wrote or said it, is not proof.

      For me it is proof because I believe in some way the Bible is the word of God. But do not confuse that with logic.

      just my two cents

    • ercramer36 profile image
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      Eric Cramer 5 years ago from Chicagoland

      I wrote it because I was having a discussion on another hub that I wrote. I wanted to layout a reasoned, logical, and biblical case. I hae heard it said that if there is no hell, there can be no heaven.

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      Eric Dierker 5 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Wow, I cut and pasted this one for further review.

      If someone questions the concept of Hell, then they have very little to add to a scentient discussion. The wild ass notions of physical hell are nothing compared to the emotional and psychological realities. Sounds backwards. Yes but that is Hell. If you doubt Hell, take some time to talk with an institutionalized schizophrenic or better a homeless street resident. The burning prisons of dillusional minds are proof positve of a fate worse than death.

      Today's labeling of the possessed is good and probably our best work at helping those in need. But the twelve were given authority over unclean spirits, that means so are we.

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      Sheila 5 years ago from Surprise Arizona - formerly resided in Washington State

      Praise God for giving us salvation through Jesus Christ. I was taught that if you believe in God and Jesus and the writings of the Bible then you must believe in Hell. Great hub - hopefully it will spark interest in those who need it most.