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Oh, no, David, you went for the "feel good" answer instead of the accurate answer. Bummer. Maybe next time. :0)
My answer is the TRUE answer...too bad for you!
Lol. another Christian claiming he knows the truth.
Please take no offense, Knightheart, I was only having a bit of fun. :0)
Many Christians, through the years, have witnessed persecution and troubling times and came away thinking that their generation was the last. In the end, they are all wrong. The Great Tribulation has already come and gone.
CJ, That has nothing to do with the catching away. Besides, my Bible says that that day shall not come except there be a falling away first, II Thess 2:3, and that "man" of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. I appreciate your comments.
David: For actual insight into Biblical prophecy and true history, please read the works of Josephus. This man was a Jewish priest and military commander. He saw Biblical prophecy being fulfilled right before his eyes. Our generation has no clue.
Jesus said that the bad times in Matt 24 would be unmatched by anything before or since. Read up on some historical accounts on the siege of Jerusalem, and the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Israel. The WW2 Holocaust pales in comparison.
CJ, I have Josephus writings. He had no spiritual insight either. He was using all his intellect to try and explain the Christians also. He said they were cannibals that stole Christ's body and ate him (communion).
What is so appealing about Josephus is that he was not a Christian...he did not understand their belief's, which make his observations even more credible. If you reread the "Jewish War" focus on what he described about the signs 1-yr before the end.
If death is swallowed up in victory and Satan is cast into the lake of fire, then who is killing all these children and committing some of the most horrible crimes since those mentioned in Foxes Book of the Martyrs?
So, is it your understanding that when Christ returns we will experience Heaven on Earth - no more pain, suffering and sin? Christ said His kingdom is not of this world, so why are you expecting to find it here? Lean not unto your own understanding.
CJ Read Rev 11: 15-19 "...The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever." The wrath of God will strike this world and He will reign in it. Blessings,
Indeed. We should put the rapture out of mind and go about our Father's business. :0)
CJS, I disagree with your comment about putting the Rapture out of our mind. The Bible clearly states that we are to anticipate His return with great eagerness! As a Believer, I want Jesus to return and greatly look for that to happen.
Knightheart, that is why I say it might be a matter of semantics. The Bible does not use the word "rapture" but uses "caught up." Descriptions are in 1 Corinthians 15 and 2 Thessalonians 4.
Knightheart: I know you mean well and I am sure you are a wonderful person with a heart for God. Know it or not, whenever you say that Jesus has not yet returned...you are calling Him a liar. He said He was coming "quickly" - not 2,000 years later.
You are wrong CJS. Jesus has not returned since it states when He does, the Tribulation period will start. I doubt God would wait 2000 years to wait for the Seal to be broken. God's timeline is not ours. Not here to debate, so farewell..
Knightheart: In the days prior to the "Great Tribulation" (63-70 A.D.) St. Paul warned not to believe those who said Christ had returned...for the time had not yet come. Nowadays, we have the opposite problem...people who say Christ has not returned.
Kevin: I agree with you 100%. Why is it so hard for contemporary "Christians" to accept the truth of God's Word? I think perhaps, they believe in signs and wonders and all the things their eyes can see...instead of truly believing what the Lord said.
Disappearinghead, Invite me to a forum so we can talk. You make no sense to me whatsoever. I base my doctrine on the Truth contained in God's mind, written through inspiration of prophets and apostles. I don't care about history. Its the WORD I see.
Without an understanding of history it is impossible to frame prophecy. Everything Jesus said concerning the end times was about the end of Israel and fulfilled by the events between AD65 and AD130.
Without revelation you shut yourself off from God. Jesus speaks in the book of Revelation concerning the consummation. If its over, where is the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem and the streets of Gold, and the death of Satan and his demons? :)
Revelation was written circa 50 A.D., according to St. Paul. Kevin is right in using the historical perspective to account for the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. Many Christians don't know history and think everything relates to their generation.
When Christ said "It is Finished" don't you believe him? When he was resurrected, don't you think all things were made as new? New Jerusalem = bride = Church = living stones = people; not an actual city
Right on, Kevin. Many "Christians" talk about going to the Word of God for direction, but then they do not believe what they are reading. What they believe is the image their brains produce on what these things should look like...according to them.
Amen bros. Full redemption, the resurrection, divine healing, and every redemptive blessing, and full restoration was paid for at Calvary. We're predestinated to victory, but the battle rages. If Satan is bound, then I'm disappointed in eternity.
Do not be disappointed in eternity, Kevin, but only in your understanding of it. I say this out of brotherly love and not out of pride or arrogance. I think you have a good heart and are a man of God, but you seem to trust your eyes more than truth.
They do by now, because it already happened. Too bad good Christian people don't study history and do not take Christ's words at face value. People would rather believe Hal Lindsey's time tables than Christ's. Jesus spoke of a 1st century fulfillment
If is already happened CJ, then Paul was a false prophet and miserable comforter to the early church. Read I Thess 4:13-18. You suppose Paul told them to comfort one another with the PAST resurrection at Calvary concerning those that SLEEP?
Better yet: If Jesus did not actually mean what He said when stating, "Yes, I am coming quickly" and "THIS generation will not pass....", then you have made Him out to be a liar and lunatic. In the same likeness, John must also be a false prophet.
Pool you might want to look up the Messianic Age in some Jewish resources. When Jesus and Paul talk about a resurrection at the end of the age, this is it. Isaiah talks a lot about it. But there is no pre-trib rapture or future great tribulation.
Amen! The people in 1Thess 5:3 who will be surprised are those in darkness. It is those who "are not in darkness" who will not be surprised, like a thief (vss 4-5).
P.O.T: You're right that we still don't know the day or hour, but we now know the year (66 A.D.). Indeed, our duty is to do the Will of our Heavenly Father, and walk in the light and truth of His Word provided to all generations...not just our own.
Here again CJ, Lets just stay with the Word. All that you are saying will not dovetail with the rest of scripture. You can't just throw out portions to make your doctrine fit. Why, the whole hope of the Christian is the coming of the Lord.
David: My hope is not in Christ's "Secong Coming"...it is in His resurrection. My faith rests in His unshakable character and the truth of His words, not in my own theology or the misapplication of Biblical prophecy so prevalent in churches today.
I am just curious...if the idea of rapture is not in the bible, who came up with it? Why do we believe it?
Theologians created it. Their carnal way of thinking and desires through their enterpretation of scripture resulted in a number of false doctrines that the early believers knew nothing of. The rapture being one.
Perhaps I should not have posted such a "hot" topic. We could enjoy long hours of scriptural proof and discussion on this but not here. Jesus talked of the catching away in many places, and so did Paul. It's not a mystery to those who have revelation
So where specifically in the bible does Jesus mention it? I'd like to look it up.
@Lybrah. I dont understand your question?
@Pool, I am in agreement with both Disapearing head and CJ Sledgehammer. Christ's warning about the signs in Matt 24 and 25 happened already AD70 with the destruction of the Jewish religion.
I agree, SOM. What doesn't make sense to me is why, God the Father, would send His only begotten Son, Christ Yeshua, and His disciples to preach about an event that would not be seen for another 2,000 years (or longer). It just doesn't add up.
Come in here and we will try to help one another. I will not stick around if tempers flare but I can handle bluntness. :) https://hubpages.com/forum/topic/108103
CJ, In Matt 3 John says "repent, because the Kingdom of God is at hand". At hand? does that not mean any day back then? It sure doesn't mean almost 2000 years later. Btw, what is the Ax in verse 10? Answer is Rome! Root=Jerusalem, tree = Jew.
SwordofManticorE, as in Luke 17:20-21, Matt. 6:33, Luke 12:31; 13:29 it is not a kingdom of flesh and blood but of spirit-composed immortals, who have been changed from mortal to immortal by the resurrection. Also per 1 Cor. 15:50-53.
Ms Dee. The kingdom of God is in you and around you. and when we are judged, we will all be judged righteouse. Hint "the adulterous and Heb 1.
David: Maybe it's just me, but I have not seen "any tempers flair". As far as I see it, you have posed a very important question here and the discussion here has been passionate yet amiable. I wish only to communicate...not to dominate. Peace brother
Where in the world would the past destruction of Jerusalem come in to play with the body change, resurrection,and catching away of those in Christ? Who are you listening to that says I'm missing something friend? Blessings,
Has it ever occured to you that the "Christian" church has no idea what Jesus was talking about or what the actual fulfillment of these things would look like? Many contemporary "Christian" ideas are wayward at best and heretical at worst.
Maybe it is a matter of semantics. Teachers complain about "new" strategies which are old strategies with new names. What does this mean? 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1 Cor 15:51 (space limi
David: The destruction of Jerusalem came into play because it was the end of the old covenant age. When Christ returned in 70 A.D., people saw the Heavenly Hosts in the clouds above Jerusalem and Judea. Christ began to reign under the New Covenant.
Anyway, CJS, God bless you. For me, I am going with the teachings of my church...the Rapture hasn't happened and we are to eagerly await the day Jesus comes as the prophecies detailed in Revelation! Not here to debate, so will say adieu!
CJ, we dont agree on alot of things, but you get my thumbs up here. Amen;)