Do you differentiate between Sheol, Hades and Gehenna?
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So God in His infinite wisdom did not forsee that most of mankind would also end up there?
God- I will make a hell for my fallen angels.
God- now I have to throw most of my children there too.
God- Why didnt I see that coming?
So the Father's love is unconditional on the condition that we love Jesus?
Good question DH
Father's love is unconditional. But he allows us to make our own choices. We get to choose to be with God, or separated from Him. He will give us what we choose.
Every knee will bow and tongue confess that Christ is Lord.
SOM.. Read the whole chapter.
Dont talk to me J. I am not interested in anything you have to say or print. My comment was directed to calynbana
SoM we are commanded to attempt to solve our problems with our brothers and sisters. Also explain to me how Christ did not die in vain if everybody is destined for heaven.
LOL.... SOM.. You are commenting on my answer?
How did Jesus die in vain if his death made it a certainty that everyone is destined for Heaven? If rejecting Jesus is a sin, then how is that one and only sin excluded from his forgiveness?
Denying Jesus is blasphemy. The only unforgivable sin.
JT. That's not what Jesus said. He said that speaking against him or the Father would be forgiven , but not speaking against the HS ("in this age or the age after". What ages he was referring to is a matter of debate.) .
Let me rephrase that DH.... Denying the Holy Spirit is blasphemy, the only unforgivable sin... in which means when you deny him, you are not saved from hell.
No Jesus didn't say denying the HS was blasphemy either. He specifically was referring to thePharisees who claimed that the works of the HS manifest by Jesus was evil.
DH.. You simply cannot deny blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin. It doesn't need to be said. What is the only thing that can send one to hell? Not accepting Jesus into their hearts through the Holy Spirit "Blasphemy" will send u 2 hell. Plainly st
DH, ignore the foolish responces of foolish people. Their belief of hell is tatood into the minds. You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it think.
Som..... LOL..... You just can't stand to be wrong. Your insults and your childish temperament are laughable. Read Matt. 12 P.S. That is spelled "responses"
Okay let me ask you this, is there a point to the Great commission then? Should we bother to evangelize?
Great question cally!!
@ Caly. The answer is yes. Back then when the apostles were spreading the real good news, they freed them from their pagan beliefs, Freed them from the fear of death, and to show the gentiles the true glory of our Father.
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
@ Deborah..... The oldest translations of the bible are written in Greek. The entire NT was actually written in Greek
i find your interpretation of Luke 16 carnal.
Sir Dent. 'The Rich Man and Lazarus' was a parable. That is, it was not a literal account about a literal rich man or a man called Lazarus. Just as a woman didn't really loose a coin and invite her friends around for a party to celebrate finding it.
Well Sword, I guess Jesus didn't mean it when he said where their worm does not die and the is not quenched. Well, I suppose that was a GOTCHA moment.
Dont be so quick to boast. He was referring to the fires of gehenna. He told the pharisees that their bodies will not rest in Hebron when they die, they will be killed and dumped in gehenna to rot like common criminals filled with maggots.
DH, Jesus always spoke truth. He never spoke idle words and fables. What would be the point in speaking of the rich man lifting up his eyes in hell being full of torment, if he wasn't speaking truth?
Rev 21: 8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
@FM, is that your evidence for a place of eternal torture? What kind of a god do worship?
SoM I think the more important question is which God do you worship? Is it the God revealed through careful reading of the scripture, or a god molded through your belief of who God should be, based on emotions and a sense moral superiority?
I worship my Father. He is perfect love and unfailing. He loves all what He has created and will greet all with love. Your god is a tyrant of a monster no different than the pagan god molech (Dan 3:1-6)
The God that I worship is very different from Molech. He is real for one. I have to wonder if you have read the OT all the way through. Have you, recently read the OT all the way through?
Thats your problem there, the kingdom of heaven or God is in us and around us. The early Christians showed the world this kingdom with love to new beleivers. It is not someplace where we all go when we die. You worship an idol of wrath
Sir, If I preached 10,000 days I could not include all the good news of faith in Christ. Why would I want to preach, OT suggestions of hell for a horrible group of sinners, to children of God today. I am worried for Christianity. If you are right.
God has not changed throughout the ages. The God depicted in the OT is the same God depicted in the NT. We need to understand the OT and the NT to fully appreciate the Good News. How you can read Matthew alone and not realize that Jesus is a judge?
The gosple saved the pagan from their fears of death, Did Paul go to the gentiles and say that they were saved from hell if the except Christ? No! Did those in the colliseum fear the coming death or persecute their killers? No!
What does John the Baptizer mean when he said Jesus will bring the wheat into his barn and burn the chaff? What did Jesus mean when he said not everybody who calls lord will see the kingdom of heaven? Why do the disciples say repent, then baptized?
my last comment to you caly. study the 4 gosples, malache, dan 9 and then read about the jewish wars. you may find your answer to your question.
Last comment? Was Jay correct in saying you cut off communication when questioned? If everybody is going to see heaven, then there is absolutely no reason to live up to any morals. No reason to be good. No reason to follow Christ.
This one is strange to me. I do not believe because I am afraid of hell. Really people do that?
Then what is the sense of warning unbelievers about hell?
Got me there SOM. Do people really scare other people into believing in Love.
How do you scare people into believing in love? Another thing, if someone worships God only to avoid going to hell, is he still saved?
Well SOM, your question would fit into my understanding of hell. No joy, no hope, no love, no faith.
Eric, that made no sense at all.
I don't understand the last bunch of comments. I don't think disbelief in Hell would lead people to disbelief in Christianity. Although it would create scriptural conflicts. Personally, I lean towards annihilationism but I am still researching.
@caly. How does annihilation demonstrate a loving Father? Would you put someone to death for stealing a beer? Eye for an eye shows that punishment fits the crime. No Earthly crime or finite sin warrants annihilation.
The Bible does say eternal life to those who have faith in Jesus as Christ, and death to those who choose to be separated. I admit I like this position because of I find it easier to stomach than eternal suffering.As I said I am still researching.
Caly, does it not say that every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Christ is Lord? Or do you believe that after they do these things, they will then be destroyed?
So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. Cherries.
Christ was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the old covenant. The word eternal is not written in both hebrew or greek. Aionios means "age", not eternal or everlasting or what ever words you use.
"Hell" is from the greek and translate "grave". What u say is not according to bible context. Genesis 3:19. How can u be dead and yet burn somewhere? Really. I dont want no "best answer" but read the bible and its translations
I am aware that I did not give context, that is what I was referring to when I said cherries. I was making a point based upon previous conversations with SoM. I was purposely cherry picking to show that without context you can make any point you want
well your attempt failed
No it did not fail. It must have gone over your head SOM ;-)
Then prove it Eric
Amen Caly. Amen.
Ah, the hell wishers gather like wolves ready for its prey. Bring it on.
Where is this combative, hostile attitude coming from? We are siblings in Christ, we may disagree with what the Bible says about Hell but we all believe in Christ. We should be able to have civil conversation with hostility and name calling.
Caly my friend, I have tried. He refuses?
It is the same hostile attitude Christ had for the Pharisees who he loved but still concidered them His enemies. As you three are my enemies as well. You also happen to be enemies of the cross, as your hell belief makes it a failure.
Live with it. I had to deal with hateful comments in the past by your ilk.
SOM.... Christ may have had enemies, but in his heart he did not consider them so. He loved all. Forgive them Father; they know not what they do.
Sword I feel that your approach to the topic has not been about learning, or sharing scriptural knowledge. It has been about being right, and about determining who agrees and who is against you. It needs to stop being about you.
My approach is to free those from this pagan hell belief and to expose those determined to believe, endorse and defend this evil doctrine.
If that were true then you would not refuse to explain yourself when people ask. You would not delete opposing views. You would share your beliefs in love rather than judgement and hostility. I truly believe you need a heart check.
SOM..... And those who disagree? I'm not the only one who's answers you delete. Why do this?
Let us get something straight. J is a pathedic hub stalker who knows full well that I dont want to hear his opinion. He is a hypocrite that started by deleting my posts a month ago, asked me not to post anymore and now he plays the victom. Pathedic!
Those are completely false accusations and I have never commented on one single hub you have ever written SOM. Why must you tell these untruths? Why am I a hypocrite?
Is that comment loving or at all constructive? What should be done about your qualms with J? The Bible is clear about what we should do when issues come up with our brothers in Christ.
Sword man, you teach from logic about passion. Personally I agree with you but my churches and religions want this place called hell.
How are we to deal with that?
I see who you have sided with caly. J believes in your foolishness and you his. There will come a day when more will walk away from your pagan beliefs. And know who God truly is.
SOM... I do not feel as though I need to defend myself just because I disagree with you. My body of work on here and other's who have friended me on here know my character and it is very far from what you think. This name calling is just childish.
Confront them with their congregation and hold no punches back. Ask them the same questions I asked here in hubs and some will see the logic in them. When I call someone an enemy, it is not with the sword in hand, but with a cotton ball.
You are not hearing me. I am not siding with anybody. I am asking you to check the way you communicate. I do not think that anybody looking in would be able to tell you are a Christian from your recent comments.
I could care less what anyone thinks about me. And you can tell your friend J that he wastes his time writting, because I ignore all his posts..
SOM.... I will continue to pray for you. I have said enough.
If you could care less then that means you care to a degree. You should care. When so many of your siblings are telling you the same thing it should be something worth deeply considering and praying about.
Have you not read anything I have posted. I concider you the enemy of the cross and I dont take direction from my enemies. There is nothing you can say about hell that will change anything about my beliefs and the way I discuss with you.
Enemies of the cross? WOW........
I am not talking to you about Hell right now Sword. I am talking about attitude, and love. Eph 4:29 and Col 4:6 are speaking to what I am trying to point out. We need to have a balance of truth and grace in our speech. The love should be obvious.
Caly, it does not matter what you or your friend J do. I will always question the stupidy of the belief of eternal torture. Hopefully someone with common sense will wake up and see the lodgic in all the questions I ask. I have hundreds more.
I no longer care what your beliefs on Hell are. I do not even have a solid understanding of Hell myself, I am still researching. What I care about is following the commandments of our Lord. Love people. Where is that love? That love is more important
You assume way too much caly
you were sounding good until i got to the part where you injected the false story of satan being a fallen agel. so i cant read past the error
Satan is a fallen angel; he chose to rebel in heaven. And i DO NOT CARE if you believe me-- its GOD u should believe.
I have to agree with celafoe
Wasn't he just using a idiom. Comparing his situation to hell?
No Jonah thought he would die and described the whale's belly as hell (his grave)
Jonah disobeyed God and even went the opposite way than the one God wanted him to go. Look, Jonah died while in the belly of the whale. He cried out from hell, which is death, and God heard him and brought him back to life.
When he called the whale's belly, hell, he was not dead. Hell is the grave according to the Hebrew scripture.
The bible was written in Greek.
Sir Dent, Jonah could not have been dead as Ecclesiastes explicitly states that in death there is no thought or action and the dead know nothing. Thus he was not dead.
JT, the Hebrew scriptures were written in Hebrew.
I wonder how many people can survive in the belly of any animal? Stomach acid alone would kill a man in probably less than a minute.
DH... I meant to say the NT. But, also a great deal of the OT
The grave, or "hell" as translated from the Greek, IS a dark place, and it most likely smells bad do to the decay of it's occupant...
No JT none of the OT was written in Greek. It was written in Hebrew/ Aramaic.
You look kind of silly now.
Yes, it was Deborah. Look it up. Greek and Aramaic.
No it wasn't JThomp42, the old testament is Hebrew and was written in Hebrew/Aramaic. It doesn't contain one speck of Greek. Although some Latin was inserted in a couple of places in the English Old Testament.
The Tanakh (JewishBible) was complete
I stand corrected...... The new testament was written in Greek.
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