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Awesome response Nellieanna. Thanks for stopping by and keep hubbing!
Thank you, Renee!
To answer your reply to my comment, no I don't think they should remain celibate; I just don't think dating a congregant is a good idea.
nellieanna - wow you understand scripture so much better than most of the "pastors" on here.
I've considerable background, Renee & respect others' interpretations & backgrounds.. My answer considered the morality & logic of it, rather than local mores. The hypocrisy of juggling innocent facts to please those just wouldn't be my
Thank you SidKemp. So is the pastor supposed to be blind? They are still a man? Are they not supposed to be happy as well? If they are single what is the difference between them dating someone in the church and me dating someone in the church?
How is the minister supposed to have found the good spouse if unmarried at the start of the ministry? Stable marriages come from sensible, mature courtships. Or is he to be out of luck if not already married if hired right out of seminary?
When I was a pastor, I never considered the people clients. We were fellow Christians, each using his/her gifts for the building up of the body. This is not like a psychologist/patient relationship.
SidKemp...So, if a minister starts his career as a single man, then he must meet his future wife outside of his own congragation? While I can see the issues that might arise from the "dating in the flock" scenerio, I do not see a Biblical reason.
I agree w/all comments: the standard is strict. How: if a minister & congregant get interested, the congregant can attend a sister church for several years of courtship. When they truly know the relationship is solid, they wed. Devotion works!
please Sid, show me one scripture (new testament) to support this, I can not find one
Celafoe, see LifeGate's on 1 Timothy 3:2. It upholds a standard even stricter. All of Timothy 3 indicates sober responsibilities. To be "well thought of" requires the absence of even the appearance of a conflict of interest in any profession.
THANKS cam8510-- for a double barreled scriptural answer. we can see you understand
another sister that understands scripture. God bless you sister
MsDora - that's sensible, in my humble opinion & fits with the ideals of the scriptures. If the congregation is reasonable & scriptural, there ought be no negative repercussions if the couple is honorable as they should be when in a leader p
Great insight, MsDora, and your explanation is written in a manner that is clear and easy to understand. I can understand why your Hubber score is 100. Every situation/church/community is different, and a lot needs to be taken under consideration.
Thanks janshares. Why do they have to be in secrecy? If a minister is married, he is still obligated to be objective, neutral, and available to all -but he still has a relationship with his wife. If he is single and dating he can't do the same?
See if you can find some literature on being a preacher's wife; it's not so much about whether he's married; it's the dynamics of the relationships he has with his congregants, his wife, and those the wife has with them, too. Believe me.
Okay thanks - i will look it up - thanks for sharing jan and keep hubbing!
I'm wondering, then, are you suggesting unending celibacy for unmarried ministers? If not, how is he/she to find a potential compatible mate, if not to socialize by dating people of his own persuasion? Or - what? Secretive associations?
so scripture is not the way to decide this issue?
If the participants feel it's a scriptural matter decide accordingly, then it's evidence of their personal compatibility or lack of it. You explained you don't think it's "a good idea". If they agree, they should abide by their convictions.
cam8510, your view is admirable. Sensitivity is needed in any social situation including the major commitments and beliefs of the participants, whether ministers or any people. Marriage & its success - primarily a people issue. Why else have
Thank you Mick S - I agree with you there - Thanks for stopping by and keep hubbing!
now this I can agree with, because it violates scripture and he should be confronted and if he will not repent, removed.
I guess that could happen, and would be awful; but if were so, then the minister & his congregation have bigger issues than his dating habits to consider.
Thanks Credence2 and great points!
Excellent, well thought-out answer, Credence. The lady in the dating role must be aware of what it means to fulfill a preacher's wife's role. It's not only the minister himself who must be aware & alert. Congregation has at most, a secondary r
I have a friend who's a minister's son in long line of ministers, an asst. minister himself. I mentioned it & he quickly said 'no' but was reminded of bad results, but was thinking of a case of a married minister playing around. Obviously NO.
Thank you Ronald Bachner - but what if that is the person God created for them?
ReneeDC 1979, there is no firm rule to follow. In general it is a poor policy to be involved with your congregation on the dating level. If the minister plays only the role of dating that person there may be room for consideration.
rb please give me a scripture to support this, i can not find one
I saw this same thing happen. The "ex" continued to attend the church for a while, but it was a little bit awkward while the ex was still there. People just kept saying, "Aw, poor thing..." It was sad until she left to attend another church.
but is that possibility a scriptural reason to say no?
I know, Marlene B, I've seen that too. Sad, but it happens. I feel that a minister shouldn't want his personal "business" discussed or known about in that way, in his own church. What you do and how you do it means something. Just my opinion.
OK, celafoe, I understand why you keep asking for scripture. Remember, scripture is not LAW. Scripture is guidance. God gave us 10 COMMANDMENTS. The rest is GUIDANCE to help us discern what the right thing to do is at that moment in time.
Marleneb- your 1st example only show.s a lack of spiritual maturity on her part for allowing that . and scripture is God's rules(law) for the operation of the HIS church. ans see my post "are the 10 commandments for today" answer is NO
Thank you Emmanuel Marosi - short and sweet - thanks for stopping by and keep hubbing!
Nor would it seem wise to allow possible horrid gossip to direct spiritual matters, which marriage surely is, including in regard to an example of honorable courtship for the purpose of honorable marriage.
So true, Catherine!
Thank you lifegate. What if he is single and the woman in his congregation is the one God intends to be his wife?
Good question ReneeDC1979. It's a matter of how committed we are to following God's plan. The Scripture says that a minister must be the husband of one wife. If he is not married, .he is not a husband. That disqualifies him from ministry,
The 1 Timothy list is made up of character traits. Why is the one about the husband of one wife different? Is it that he must be married, or is it that his character should be of loyalty and fidelity? Paul could oversee pastors but not be one?
Liftgate, that verse is talking about being a man of virtue and fidelity. It is saying that he must be faithful to his wife IF he has one, not that he must have one.
Certainly a pastor should show loyalty and fidelity in his character. But nowhere does it say that "the husband of one wife " is a character trait and nowhere do I see the word "if" the pastor is married. It is what it is.
Go back to good Bible study principles. If I gave a list of fish names, would you call one a dog? No. In 1tim 3 we have a list of character traits, yet you rename one something else. It is character that matters all through the Bible
that is true , but the question was minister, not elder. there are other ministers that are not elders. most pastors are not scriptural elders
Why is the Christian's life governed by rules. Jesus did not teach this, the Pharisees did. Jesus taught and exemplified a life led by an individual's direct contact with God, not a list of rules set forth by self appointed spiritual experts.
Being the husband of one wife, in contrast to more than one (as was not uncommon in that day) makes sense. As an admonition for an elder: ELDER persons are likely to be married & should be mono.
how can there be insubordination to a pastor. he is not a boss. he is just a saint like she is. actually he is supposed to be a servant and Lower than the other saints no above or over
Humans are human. That's true. The Lord loves us all. None of us are better than the other. Pastors are in a structural position. You know... Level 1, 2, 3, etc. A pastor is a leader. Others follow. Those who follow are subordinate to the position.
marlene -- pastors and the churches of men teach that , But the problem is that is absolutely the opposite of What Jesus and Paul taught. They both taught that ministry is a position of servitude, the lowest place in the church.
I understand about service, celafoe. And, as I read through your comments it appears that your position is merely to challenge vs. to truly comprehend. I have absolutely no desire to entertain that type of behavior.
challenging that, that is unscriptural, whether you like it or not is necessary if we want to see the true church of Jesus Christ.come forth in these last days
can you give one scripture for this please? I cant find one.
1 Corinthians 32-33. Meaning, when a man is unmarried he can devote his works to the Lord. When a man is married, his devotion is split between the church and his wife. It is better/easier not to be married, but there is no commandment against it.
Marlene that scripture does not apply. you left out 4 little word "because of the present distress" it was for that specific time.
2. it was not talking about ministry.
3. it would be contrary to i Timothy 3-2
Well, I am just giving my opinion. To remain like Paul is a different thing again. Here I am referring to church leaders who made mistakes thereby bringing confusion in the church. If is the will of God and according to scripture it is okay.
I didn't leave anything out. I didn't even quote the scripture (just the address) because different people have different versions of the Bible. Interpretations vary. Naturally, everything is "according" to the situation. What's the problem?
Thank you Dr. Haddox. My thoughts exactly. Thanks for stopping by and keep hubbing!
if he is a smart professional pastor , he has no business leading a new testament church. God HATES the clergy/laity format
but it is ok in the churches of men because they have their own rules that supercede scripture