Most particularly I was working on a sermon on this and this line hit me in a new light, like a ton of bricks: 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” My thoughts are that man can forgive man, if acting with the Holy Spirit. But I also see this as only applying to earth.
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That pardoned word is a great one. Your point is well taken. I just substituted God for police. And the notion remains true.
Beautiful. And with you taking 100% responsibility, the other person is off the hook. By such "turning the other cheek," they are shocked from their position of "effort" and blind (ego) selfishness.
Interesting. Are we ever bound by others from this earth for everlasting life? It would seem not. But it would seem that the Holy Spirit can work through us and so in that sense Yes. What a responsibility we have, to each other.
This is a wonderful comment Leon, thank you. But it leaves me a little worried for you, it seems that you are retaining the sins of the Church against them.
The Church as an insitutional entity cannot sin or have its sins retained. It is individual people that choose not to approriate the complete finished work of Christ on the cross for their personal lives. You should not be worried for me, Eric.
LeonE you have a true understanding of what you speak. God bless you brother
Leon Elijah you speak well and lift my knowledge up. But I will still worry about any man who troubles over the failings of our institutions. I think you point out we should be concerned with the people and not the thing.
We had an old joke, the mom went to see her son perform in the marching band. Finally she asked, "why is everyone out of step except my son?" God can certainly get us back "in step".
Lee Tea, you have stated a great truth. Pain and loss is inevitable, suffering is optional. How we perceive is what makes us who we are. If we perceive in Love we live in it.
and why not, they are compatable statements
Celafoe, in what way are they compatible? I thought Jesus taught forgiveness, not unforgiveness.
Both are requiring forgiveness
Celafoe, I think you only read half the sentence. The second half of the sentence reads: "If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
Walter have you ever heard anyone claim that the men that this was spoken to, ever did not forgive. I do not know of any example. Even when Saul became Paul, it took some time but they forgave him.
Ericdierker, I have no idea but that is not the point. I feel that Jesus should have specifically and unambiguously advised his disciples to forgive everyone, including their enemies. To say what he had said is to allow room to do otherwise.
WalterPoon- " I feel that Jesus should have specifically....." That's a bit bold on your part, don't you think.
Very valid point Walter. Welcome to my world of free choice. But after awhile it works out where the road becomes very narrow indeed, and my choices are in fact controlled by my convictions.
-- I am sorry my Jesus does not live up to your expectations, but I accept and am happy with Him AS HE IS
Interesting observation... I'm writing an article on the subject of "Confession to a priest." I will be sure to incorporate some thoughts on this into my article.
Wow, that is cool. This morning I was reading Luke 10:1-20 and some writing from Joseph of Jesus and Mary. That focused on the 72 that were sent. I am seeing some right in use of the terms to describe one who is sent.
Great comment give us the link.
Esp. v.16. & another: Rom:10:14-15: But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? & how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? & how are they to hear without a preacher? & how can men preach unles
I like that very much Admiral. There is a point of taking the responsibility. My friend Abraham Lincoln reminded us "obedience of the Law is the greatest freedom". I can look a man in the eye and know.
yes this is correct.
Well spoken as usual Celafoe. For me, I ain't no hero. I just follow orders and feel I am ordered to forgive. I think those wild Apostles got that too. I cannot find a case of one of the Apostles "not forgiving" someone. Maybe for a while, Paul.
Really cool huh! That Matthew verse always sticks with me. It is almost a trick point of direction. We must forgive so the second option, is like a temptation. No matter really for cats like you and me --- what up, we forgive so the second option is?
Eric- The way I understand it is Christ died on the cross and in doing so grace has been offered to all. We have recieved his grace. The gift was a act of love. Freely we have received, freely we must give.
Graceinus, please use a couple of capsules to elaborate. You are on a roll here, please teach!
Eric-The two great commandments require love. Without God's love first it would not be possible for God to offer grace. First Love, then grace. Without love, grace could not exist.Therefore it's not possible for us forgive if we don't love them first
TRUTH brother. Can we be Christians and not love? NO. Is God ours or are we God's? Buddy you make me happy. God makes me happy and God gives all of us you. Others know you and in that know God.
Not enough room here, but in the case of "not forgiving," it makes sense to a Catholic. Here, I think it's more about "absolving." For the person who is unrepentant and wishes to remain in his sin, it is counter-productive to absolve him from it.
taburkett- I believe one can become a disciple and have yet to receive the Holy Spirit. And disciple simplely mean "student". One does not receive the Holy Spirit first TO become a disciple. If a student desires to forgive then he or she should.
Miriam Webster defines the disciple as one who accepts and assists in spreading the doctrines of another. Such as the original 12 disciples.
Truly we can all forgive, truly, generally we are not that good at it. Now my Lord comes along and finds one that I have forgiven in a way to where his life has changed for the good. He has repented and is born again to good. My Lord would do likewis
you are correct-all humans can forgive-but some do not because they frolic with sin-those who live within the righteous rules of the Lord easily forgive the sins of others who have confessed those and joined in praising the Lord
When I wake up in the morning, the first few minutes are kind of fuzzy. And then I just go "WWJD". I got no confusion. When in doubt love and forgive. I do reckon some folks have to wonder about such matters.