It seems most people professing to be Christian do not have a proper grounding in the scriptures. They drink the milk but do not seem to be able ( or maybe no desire?) to eat the real meat- understand the deeper things of God, in spite of the fact that scriptures tells us the Holy Spirit will teach us ALL things .
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well said as usual
Every christian started out immature. But to mature requires the desire to grow. It is not automatic. It is something one must want. Without wanting to grow and the effort to do so then maturity as a christian is not possible. Great answer PandN
P&N: I read where you said "there is no NEW revelation in the Word" If so, why does Scripture say "your sons & daughters will prophesy" Prophesy what if no NEW revelation from the Holy Spirit & is according to the Word? Baptism, Trinity
Prophecy is the forth-telling of the very will of God of the past, present and future, which is summed up in the consummation of God’s eternal purpose through Jesus Christ.
P&N:Did u say "future?"According to u Holy Spirit is dead!No more prophesying that is WITHIN realm of His Word which doesn't "add" or "take away?"HS reveals fm His Word "all the time!" Progression! I.E. baptism,Jesus is God,NoTrinity"ALL" fm Wor
Yes very well said amen. The very sad thing is that they're all so blind to it, lust of the eyes lust of the Flesh and the pride of life.
Most is accurate. Ask the next 20 "Christians" you meet 10 basic questions and see for yourself
the question definately did not say or insinuate an immediate graduation but after a few years there should at least be an ability to eat ground meat
I agree, celafoe.
So many aren't taught to strive to reach that point (strong meat). I truly think that many of them have no idea there is more to it. Just 'I'm saved, i'm good."
Jeff-- unfortunately that is too true. People are taught to be devoted to "church" instead of Christ . Even many people that know better do not follow through with self study and depend on the baby food give so as to not alienate anyone
Yes. Our world today moves at such a pace, and it so many different directions (most all of them AWAY from Christianity) that people allow their attention to be pulled elsewhere. Their Christianity just becomes one more thing thats glossed over
@BuffaloGal1960 that is a great response! I say all the time that I am a work in progress because I know there are times when I fail, but I commit to talking to him daily and constantly reading the word (home bible study, as some may call it).
yes excellent understanding
Many professing Christians have been "believers" for many years, yet they do not know the Bible very well at all. Why? Maybe they are just not readers, or maybe . . . they are not true believers. One mark of a true Christian is a hunger for the Word.
Hunger for the Word indeed!
crafty- no you joined in right where you belong..the problem is "pastors", the churches do not require them to read, they want them dependent on them. When they read their bibles they start asking embarrasing questions and expecting examples
We must be careful when we say that Jesus walked with sinners. Jesus only walked with sinners who brought forth the fruit of repentance. John 9:31;15:14;James 4:4,2 Corinthians 6:14-18;Hebrews 7:26. Jesus was not friends (philia) with sinners.
"Jesus walked with sinners". Yes, he visited with them, and the pharisees hated it. People use it, to me, to defend themselves "Jesus loved sinners." Yes, of course, BUT, he told them to "go and sin no more", not stay in it. He did not condone it
croftytotheCore, this is excellent and goes to the heart of Jesus' blueprint for the re establishing kingdom of God, Matt.5-7 pointing to the " maturity " right at the beginning , 7:24.25. A child of God putting into the practice EVERY wordbuilding
You are right, Jesus walked with sinners (agape), but He did not become friends with them (philia) until they repented and turned from their sin. That is why the modern "church" is filled with lukewarm "Christians," their "Gospel" is backwards
Think about the criminal that died on the cross next to Jesus. ... Remember me in your Kingdom....Today you will be with me in paradise....
The criminal confessed his sin, said his punishment was just and he was getting what he deserved. This affirms the fruit of repentance.
The criminal didn't live a sin-free life though. Yes, he confessed his sins! That's the basic principal of what I'm talking about. Those who don't believe they have anything to confess because they think they are perfect.
crafty-- there is no scripture that tells us to hang around with such as you mention one that has no reason to repent is to be left to God to deal with. so what IS your point? you cant change the past, only today forward
I don't understand your question.
PlanksandNails, so many have no idea of the difference between agape and philia love. I think that's where so many go astray here.
crafty-- maybe i do not understand what you are trying to say then because the ? was clear.
The Bible is clear about it. The criminal on that cross next to Jesus had Faith. ? What's not to understand?
jeff-- so true I cant find my article on the different kinds of love, so will try to get one written . It is clear it is needed.
Agape love is For God so Loved the World...Phileo love is a close intimate fellowship. I think it got off track here when I responded to someone and didn't reference their name. Sorry about the confusion.
crafty-- I think i was confued by your entry but it looks like we are in agreement based on the one that followed it
Jeff and Celafoe,
So many ignorantly throw the word love around, but do not apply it in the right context. Some believe that by showing love (eros) to others will bring them to Christ. That is why the modern "church" is filled with immoral people.
P&N-- agreed that is why I insist that one of the first things new believer learn is the different kinds of love and their meanings and uses. Too may are not taught basics principles and do not understand there are requirements on Christians
yes we have to wake up the complacent ones and the unlearned-- fot their benefit. Scripture requires we do that, that is love of our brethren
but he is a defeated foe and no problem to a mature Christian, that is why we are told to become mature. James 1:12-16. of course the churches prefer to keep them immature so they can control them, not do as charged and bring them to maturity
CELAFOE.......... I refuse to follow any church doctrine. This is why I do not attend any man made church. They try and rule your ife from the pulpit. I am a growing christian.. a work in process as we will always be. He will never be finished
JThomps42- I'm assuming you mean man made church doctrine, right ?
JThomps42- Good, I'm with you on that.
Its tough and the enemy never sleeps we must stay scripture oriented and (some may disagree) under authority of another for even Jesus submitted to John the Baptist to be baptized, freewheeling Han Solos are a dime a dozen and dissipate soon enough.
RegB- I know many churches teach you must under authority of a man but there is not 1 scripture to back that up. Scripture says clearly " the head of man is Jesus Christ" no man is the head of any other man. except in churches of man.
Celafoe: Jesus Christ is the Head of the Church hence "The Body of Christ (Ephesians 4:15)." God's authority is Sovereign!
RB- you said "we must stay scripture oriented and (some may disagree) under authority of another", This is not scriptural it is a lie from the churches of men. Jesus is not sovereign in the churches of men,they do not follow him.
There is nothing wrong about being immature as long as your confession remains "Jesus is Lord." Knowledge has a tendency to puff one up and see planks when observing others. Some choose to remain immature that's a personal choice. God is Sovereign.
I never heard a more ridiculous comment promoting immature ignorance.
reg-- you sound like a pastor. If it is not important for Christians to become mature, then why are those too lazy to mature rebuked in 1 Cor 3 and Heb 5. you clearly do not understand scripture. a christians only cover is Christ. not man
of course it was directed at them but are you telling me it can only have one meaning--- not so
Yes. The passage only has one interpretation; it is not a blanket statement. I see nowhere in Scripture where God states that the Holy Spirit will teach all Christians "all things" or that He will "bring to your remembrance all things I said to you."
John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
glynch- When John 14:26 was first spoken by Jesus, it was to His IMMATURE DISCIPLES who where not yet apostles. Now WE, as christian are disciples of God's Word. So John 14:26 does apply to us, as christian, whether you or your church like it or not.
The Holy Spirit came on Pentecost. He guided the apostles into all truth, brought to their remembrance all things Jesus said to them, and told them "things to come" (John 14:26; 16:13). He gave them inspired revelation--something we do not get today.
sorry but--- anything revealed to us by the Holy Spirit IS inspired revelation. Revelation is the revealing of something. and that is what the Holy Spirit does He reveals what scripture means. Too much church indoctrination is a terrible thing
You are misconstruing revelation and illumination. Only prophets and apostles received divine revelation. We do not receive revelation today; the canon is closed. Today, the Holy Spirit illumines our minds so that we can understand spiritual truth.
you are too interested in teaching what you learned in churchy school to be interested in plain truth. I am not interested in your dry lifeless explanations and prefer life giving lessons from the Holy Spirit. no fancy word games just truth
I base my teaching on the objective Word of God; you base your belief on subjective feelings and emotions. What is your authority for knowing that you are receiving revelation from the Holy Spirit?
whateever the objective word of god is. Mine is from The Word of God (bible), confirmed by the Holy Spirit. NO emotion or feelings Those are the things that the church system uses to entrap people & they are NOT found in the true church
Semantics issue: God's revelations to His people are summed up in Scripture; there are no new revelations. The Holy Spirit does not give new revelation, but teaches or illuminates us to that which is only in His Word. Any additions is false doctrine.
glynch1: Are you saying that "believers" arent Jesus' apostles? (Acts 2:42; Eph 2:20; Rev 21:14) He was also speaking to the apostles in Jn 16:13 but not us? This is the Holy Spirit He's talking about. We dont have access to the Holy Spirit?
I think you just screwed-up by your statement:
“I see nowhere in Scripture where God states that the Holy Spirit will teach all Christians "all things" or that He will "bring to your remembrance all things I said to you."
Limiting the Holy Spirit ag
I cannot reconcile that belief with scripture, so for me it does not work. and I certainly would not be responsible to teach it to anyone, But of course you are certainly free to do as you believe for yourself
You can't reconcile the words "innocence" and "purity" with scripture? Faith does not require reconciliation. Beliefs are not reconciled. Beliefs are formed. No scripture can either prove or disprove what is felt in ones heart. This isn't science.
I feel the Great Commission teaches us there is more than saying "I love you God, and I know you love me."
I am assuming that you are saying you're saved through the blood and grace of Jesus.
Please know I'm not trying to argue.
Jeff, That is what I mean. Just made long story short. Dissecting scripture and spending time proving or disproving beliefs is wasteful. My time is better spent using these beliefs in ways that are beneficial to others. Isn't that in scriptures? Thx
I disagree. When a Christian preacher says John 14:6 doesn't state that Jesus is the only way to God, I feel it leads people astray. People need to learn the bible not simply listen to someone say "I'm a christian, just love God and he'll love you."
jeff-- absolutely correct. there are requirements
IDONO: "I love God & God loves me?" IF u love me "feed my sheep!" Jn21:17! How can u "feed sheep" IF u don't know WORD? IMMATURE w/o WORD! I Pet 2:2 "As newborn babes, desire the PURE milk of the WORD, that ye may GROW by it." Study II Tim 2:15!
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yes and the "pastors" (false teachers) who have elevated themselves above them like to keep it that way so its easy to control them If they learn the scriptures correctly they will not listen to their man made doctrines and fables
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unfortunately the reason can usually be traced to "church attendance". Instead of BEING THE CHURCH they re taught to "attend church", two different things- 2 different results
many do as you and judge Christianity by people instead of what God says it is. The things you mentioned are not part of Christianity; Christian are free eat anything, woman need not wear cover.
sadly many Christians are a ill informed as you
ARE: You still living under the LAW? Those r Old Testament laws u r addressing! New Covenant NOW! Rd Jer31:33;Heb8:10;10:16;PROMISE Jn14:26;16:13;Came Acts 2:2; Holy Spirit (Jesus)spoke thru Paul in Jesus' stead began "puting laws n heart & mind.
whats wrong with asking a question that is valid.
celafoe- You have asked a valid question. Maybe it will push others to study more. There are times when being point blank in our questions (and answers) is needed. Good job.
What's a Christian? Followers of Jesus' teachings? How could one be a Christian & have not read? How could they be Christian if they don't know what He has said?
I Pet 2:2 "As newborn babes, desire the PURE milk of the WORD, that ye may GROW by it!" IF Bible says "babes" sounds IMMATURE to me! Don't remain complacent "babes" - GROW! Why do most look at Messenger rather than Message?
Yes! They heard of but don't KNOW (limited faith) His Power! They assume it happened back then, but now?? He's the same today! He places ppl n lives to "warn" w/Scripture & up 2 us to STUDY to "see if so!" Acts 17:11. Stay READ UP & prayed up
A dangerous thing is a Christian who is unlearned in the scriptures, and will believe as 'the gospel' anything that someone tells them is scriptural. Like some certain television preachers.
Jeff Porter- One of the great problem with immuture christian is many think that everthing in the bible is the gospel. And much of this way of thinking comes from those preaching from the pulpit. Many don't understand what the word "gospel" means.
We are required to judge the fruit of those who profess to be Christian. I do not agree with your assessment but your list is certainly things missing in the church because of the immaturity.
it is a valid question. How many mothers nurse the kids after they are 2 yrs old. Cor 3:2-fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal.
I also believe it to be a valid question. I believe scripture intends to give specific teachings in specific areas. You cant impose different interpretations.
No it isn't. The WORD judges! If Scripture says you're a babe (immature) then it is so! I Pet 2:2 says "As newborn babes, desire the PURE milk of the WORD, that ye may GROW by it!" Christian babes GROW by eating WORD w/Holy Spirit guidance only!
agreed- but the purpose of the question was as all things in Christianity should be, to cause people to look at whether or not they as individuals are doing what they should be, growing in faith. purpose is to redemption- growth always
By saying that "labeling and judging people is down right ignorant and rude" is making a judgement; therefore, you are being hypocritical by not adhering to the rule that you are trying to enforce on others. We all make judgments to asses things.
i did not address you in particular, but if the shoe fits you are welcome to wear it. This ? was to wake people up to their responsibility to learn and follow Christ, if they claim to be Christians. not for condemnation but to redemption.
Again, the scriptures actually compel christians to judge. It teaches us how. If we did not judge, what sort of mess would we find ourselves in? Use righteous judgement.
jeff--- I have almost completed an article on proper judging for Christians and hope to post it next week. I agree with you and it is a needed understanding for Christians
celafoe, I look forward to reading it. I think the misuse of Matthew 7:1 has helped lead people astray. Again, it comes down to learning the scriptures so you aren't fooled by such things.
jeff-- of course the main porblem is it is taught wrong by the hireling as a self protection method , like so many other things
No, I believe Christians are being lead by the Holy Spirit if "IN" Christ Jesus! You go to seminaries to be taught by "men" rather than the Holy Spirit? Rem:Rm 8:6-8. ALL should learn to "Walk in the Spirit," or they will remain "IMMATURE!"