Do you think it helps to ditch the idea of a god dictating our lives and turn, instead, to the natural evolutionary process of selection and survival of the fittest?
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A very well considered and presented answer. Thank you. Lots to think about there.
I think you would enjoy the New-Age religions and the 'Divine Consciousness' movement, quite well. Welcome to the '90s! LOL!
no one can answer "what came first - man or woman?" unless they read the Bible. The truth is written, and science cannot disprove it. Man lacks the ability to make something from nothing. God is the only one that possesses this power. God provides
tarburkett, most of your answers say science cannot answer any of the major questions & in the same breath u say the bible can. U r blind to reality. The bible is a book of fables; a collection put together by goat herders. Religion has no answer
Jesus Christ was sent to earth to inform. He is the path to forever lasting love. God does not dictate-but-simply apprises the individual of their fate due to the decisions they make. It is the individual that dictates their own destiny. God loves
OH - those of little faith. How much have they missed of the spirit as they stumble through their limited science. Science limited by faulty manmade experiment & rational thought due to the restrictive foundation of nature alone. Blessed is the
taburkett. You are an example of what I am talking about. Lost in a non-lit box unable to see. I have spirit. I see. I hear. You make up answers & project your own religious flaws on reality which you label as science. I so wish I could save you.
taburkett, if science doesn't meet your expectations for the world, it is not science that is limited; it is your expectations that are inflated.
science fails through the restrictions of man. man was made in God's image, but was not given God's powers. those who are weak to the spirit believe the boundaries of science. those strong with the spirit are never restricted. God is righteousness
God was made in man's image. Why else would god have a mouth, a stomach, lungs, a heart & a rectum. Man's ego & fear created a Superman in his image. A Superman that even impregnated a woman. Sounds like a child's comic book.
Thank you. Do you consider that the freedom which Americans enjoy is also accorded to other nationalities?
DR. you are so correct. The individual chooses their path personally. They also choose their friends. Those that choose wisely prosper, while those that do not deal with despair. The unwise blame others for all that they brought upon themselves.
jonnycl; its not just American it is true of much of the world, with the exception of the Middle East. Religious freedom is pretty wide spread.
You keep writing, Aliasis.... you are doing very well. Thank you so much for a well thought out and expressed opinion.
Believing every trending theory in science is not well thought out. Playing with dino bones is not true science, by the way. Everything adapts and evolves, but saying a raptor turned into a turkey is ridiculous.
"but saying a raptor turned into a turkey is ridiculous.." Absolutely agree... but who WOULD say that? Is it some kind of 4th July in-joke?
I've heard it many times from die-hard, hardcore evolutionists, seriously... : /
Then such people are very ignorant, or simply uneducated. Charles Darwin would never have suggested such a thing. I recommend reading "The Bonobo and the Atheist" by Frans de Waal.
I agree. Ignorance is abound.
Science of course is the pursuit of fact, understanding, openness to new ideas and being able to predict outcomes. Religion relies upon theory, beliefs, superstition and, often, a closed mind.
science is restricted by its human factor - the Spirit of God has no restriction. When the Spirit is praised, wisdom has been achieved. When science is praised, restrictions are embraced. zero science for which came first - the chicken or the egg
There HAD to be a rooster! Did he come first? Or the Hen?
Or maybe god did a little trick with the yoke and made it double....
2% of the world is atheist and another 9.66% are non-religious according to Wikipedia. That would mean a vast majority of scientists believe in a god. Which god and how much is un-known. Evolution says no god needed. Strange fact isn't it!
JS those numbers are close for the US but if you read the whole report they seem rather doubtful. Especially when you consider China with 1.3 B most of whom are atheist, also true of Russia. Europe is about 18%, etc
According to a latest survey, 85% of Chinese people have religious beliefs or had some religious practices and only 15% of them are real atheists. (The real atheists here refer to those who do not have faith in any religions).
Yes the Chinese do have religions Buddhism and Taoism, both atheistic religions without gods. I lived in China for 2 years and never met a single theists.
The religious current of Taoism evolved its own pantheon of deities that were worshipped in temples by the various sects. These Taoist deities, like the Buddhist or Hindu pantheon, represented different qualities and attributes and various ceremonies
If you are looking at evolution vs creation, both have significant holes in them. Some of these gaps can be explained, but most are just vast holes in the theories. Both theories rely on faith in them to last. I personally chose God over man.
Evolution doesn't relate with creation anyway. I think some of these people are confusing evolution for the silly primordial soup theory.
We don't need to "believe in" evolution. It's a theory, prompting questions, searching for answers, testing those answers, sharing the information and enjoying the journey. Religion is the font of "belief," proof is not sort, discouraged even.
jsfishinman, it's interesting that you say "I personally chose God over man" when choosing between evolution & creation. Both are theories of MAN, not god. And at least evolution is a theory based on research of men, not guess work of men.
Jonny, both theories are searching for answers. Evolution searches for answers without God. Creationist search for answers without any evolutionary science. Both tend to be close minded in their approach to research.
That "closed-mindedness" is a characteristic of us all.... humans, per see, regardless of religious/non-religious. If we were all open-minded these discussions would hardly go the way they do....don't you think?
Evolution is not a closed-minded argument. U both fail 2 see that science experiments; finds proof; then establishes theory. Theory is always open to be discredited or proved. That is science! Religion says, "I know. Do not question." No comparison.
I know this is an over-used cliche, "It takes all sorts to make a world." But it is true that each of us will see a situation from a different angle. The more "I/We" are willing to listen to the other point of view and inwardly digest, the better.
jonny, I mean all good to & 4 u, but I disagree. Some things do require sight from all angles, but some things must be recognized as pure fantasy. Science is a search 4 truth. Religion is not. Superman cannot be taken seriously or the Dark Ages a
I totally agree that all religion is pure fantasy. However, I also recognize the human (apparent) need to believe in something outside of the logical, physical "real" world, and have some sympathy with the religious.... not siding with it though.
Jonny, I agree people need answers & fear drives them to believe fantasy. But historically many have died & medicine & scientific achievements have been retarded by fear of reality. Ignorance & delusion always end in despair when real
I was reading a philosophy site the other day, about the existence or non-existence of God. It had some interesting scientific facts of both sides of the argument.
jsfishinman, check out the book entitled "Evolution vs. Creationism," by Eugenie C. Scott. It sheds some light on the matter.
Been there, done that. I read a lot!
Justfish; you might want to check your sources a bit; that website is run by a theistic ministry,, hardly credible.
jsfishinman, I read a lot too. My house is a library. lol. Nice to know someone else likes to read, I assume more than watching television.
You are welcome to that opinion, Bill, who am I to argue? But it is not my choice of view.... for me there is nothing, repeat nothing, on the other side of death, so to waste this life would be pointless. I hope you will respect if not agree with me
I don't think that it generally effects the way people live, the majority of any society is good, Christians are just forgiven. That choice will only matter if there is a Heaven or Hell, otherwise we all just die.
Would you like to tell us your vision of what "heaven" and "hell" would be like?
Revelations gives a pretty good description of both, but for your sake, I'll pray you just die and don't have to face any trials or White Throne Judgments. I would that all would chose Jesus and not take the chance.
To experience anything like suggested in Revelations would require us to have ears, and eyes, and noses, and tongues, and skin....without those sense organs, there can be no punishment, as per Revelations. Is that too logical for you?
Jesus's resurrected body had all those things. I would imagine our resurrected bodies would have these same capabilities.
Magical, no doubt. The imagination can do the impossible.
jonny.... You are absolutely right on this one. It can even make you think what you are saying makes any type of valid point.
Man's time is very short compared to most and we have already poisoned our gene pool to the point that only medical science keeps us going.
I agree with you JCL after life comes dirt.
If man continues to believe in death as inevitable & heaven as acceptable, death will always be. But if man believes he & only he controls his destiny, science will search ways to extend life and an afterlife may not be necessary someday.
Haha, I see from your profile that you like to push the boundaries of discussion.
Who just brought cybernetics into this discussion? LOL!
Jonny, if the "pushing boundaries" is meant for me, guilty as charged. What fun can be had merely telling people what they want to hear? Great discussions come from hot topics. lol.
I also enjoy debate, if we quit learning from each other and struggling to increase our knowledge, what hope is there for our society. Jonny and Reality, thanks always for comments.
jasfishinman, I look forward to debate on other issues in the future. All the best to you!
Me too! Sometimes "pushing the boundaries" might involve getting a bit angry with each other... but that only indicates passion, surely, so let's keep coming back for more
Well, whoever "pushed it to the limits" with cybernetic cyborg action, needs to report back and back it up with some hardcore rat studies. LOL! I can argue for either side; I'm good...
Thank you. In your opinion, what are those "eternal truths," what is "universal law," and is your "predispositon" totally opposite to mine? My predisposition has not been declared, and I don't automatically exclude others.
weak minds always seek what is right in front of them, while the spiritually strong minded know exactly what it is. weak minds believe that science is foremost, spiritually strong minded know that science is a restrictive tool. God loves & forgiv
Weak minds believe only what is in their heads because they r afraid of the truth & that they have no answers & that they r not the center of the universe. Fear & delusion drive so many to hatred of truth & reality that they hide in t
".... the chicken that come first by the hand of God, the creator. "
Hahaha! The epitome of a good fairy story. And the chicken was the result of a virgin birth, so the rooster had no part to play in it.
as usual, the unbeliever mocks the words so truthfully written. but, as usual, they cannot present any proof that it is wrong. all they have is their tempest debauchery that attempts to lead others astray. what wickedness at play. God forgives.
taburkett........ jonny is so afraid of the truth that he has censored everything I have tried to say on this subject. Just like many atheists, he is afraid that his life is being controlled by a higher being than his intellectual mind cannot fathom.
I am not taking sides here, but I have to say the "truth" is a word that rings hollow when spoken by the religious. You know nothing about truth as your religion is made up & you believe fairy tales told by parents. Can't u see. U r blind to trut
Reality..... My friend, you are the one's who "choose" to remain lost because you cannot see, nor will you entertain the truth. The reason being is simple fear and ego. You cannot allow the truth in your life because this would leave you vulnerable.
JThomp42, I also think of u as friend; we have conversed before. But u still don't know me. U gave up the search 4 truth; u r lost, not me. I know where I am. I see, hear; u don't. Ego is believing u know with no facts - that is religion, not me.
Reality.. Agree to disagree. Many blessings.
JThomp42 - agreed. Have a nice weekend.
You as well Reality.
The speciation concepts via the Theory of Evolution are asinine. Of course you, being a scripture fanatic, would probably try to fit it in somehow to the, uh, other scripture as well; ha-ha!
I have censored nothing. I am using an Android and got muddled up with buttons. It helps tto keep up my I.Q against the God Factor.
Yeah, JThomp42, Jonny hasn't censored anything or else I'd have already been deleted! Just take the bottom seat like me, and enjoy your stay at the 'answers hidden due to negative feedback' cushion! LOL!
You can't use the bible to confirm religion or the existence of a god any more than you can use Grimm's fairy Tales to confirm the existence of trolls or fairies .
Borsia, you stole my Grimm Fairy Tales line. lol. We are on the same train...
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