In my area the local group of atheist had made over 300 bags for the homeless and wanted to volunteer at the local soup kitchen and pass out the bags while there. They made sure the director knew they would not tell anyone they were atheist or even mention it. The director said they were not welcome in the building. She refused to let them help or pass out the bags. Was this the right thing to do?
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General terms - this is not fact - but hypothetical projection
on what principle is this decision made - the same principle that protects those who would be harmed by others.
exclusion - what atheists do to Christians
Truth is stranger than fiction
J, I was so spitting mad when I read peeples's question that I could barely form a coherent response. Yours is absolutely beautiful and articulate and mirrors mine (had I calmed myself down before trying to answer).
The Lord detests the sacrifice of the wicked, but the prayer of the upright pleases him. When visitors to my table prepare for a meal, they are always subject to a prayer to God for his graciousness and mercy as we partake of what he has provided.
certainly-the parable "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind"
Proverbs 11:3 The integrity of the upright guides them, but the unfaithful are destroyed by their duplicity.
Beautiful. And I think the passage about, what you do to the least of them you do unto me, applies. Insulting atheists is insulting God. Love always has to be the primary objective.
Or her fear of the attitude that might be taken by the Atheist group. I agree that the director was wrong. It sounds like a large group and it might depend on the size or number of volunteers they wanted to work with.
Fear leads to bad judgment. Most atheists are not the demons they are made out to be. If she'd have looked past her own bias, hungry people would have been fed. It was stated that the Atheists weren't planning on mentioning it.
Agree atheists r not demons but u have 2 admit that the 1s that announce thmslvs as atheists usually follow up by telling u what they r against instead of what they r 4. the last thing i want is some1 telling me how wrong my beliefs r just like u.
Actually that is not correct Mklow1 I make it a habit of not telling others what I believe unless asked. It's usually the religious that feel a need to "spread their beliefs". your assertions are inaccurate and offensive.
I said that I don't like people telling me my beliefs are wrong just like you. That means that neither of us like for someone to tell us our beliefs are wrong. If u find that offensive then maybe u r 2 sensitive 4 the internet.
you were the one generalizing "you have to admit that atheists". that would be like me saying you have to admit all people who say they are Christians are small minded and judgmental - except I don't generalize because it isn't fair or accurate.
You don't generalize??? You said this:" It's usually the religious that feel a need to "spread their beliefs".
You should read b4 you write
I live in a rural area. There is only one soup kitchen in that county. They also made it very clear that they would not make it known that they were atheist, so there was no risk. I see your view but I apologize as I can not fully agree.
Hi peeples, shucks almighty, no need to apologize --- like I say, I cannot agree to myself fully either. I have just been an advocate for homeless for so long I just view life from a "tilted" perspective. Buddha was homeless and so was Christ.
Yes, Jesus turned many of the disbelievers, but he did rebuke the evil & wicked. Jesus refused to eat food provided by the wicked Kings and the false prophets. He knew when to accept charity & when to deny it. The same as this manager. Blesse
I feel bad that my answer was hidden due to negative feedback. I'm not sure why my comment was received negatively. Ah well, onward I guess.
delaneyworld -- I like, appreciate and read your comment. There is a big heart in you, well worth sharing and I am going over to follow you. Site unseen.
It got hidden due to Christians (most likely) who are bothered that you don't agree with their viewpoint. I up EVERY answer to my questions even if I don't agree. Yours I agree 100%.
You describe Good works = helping our fellow humans = good people. However, you do not know that this is the description of the atheist attempting entry to the Christian Soup kitchen. The director knew and reacted according to that knowledge.
If that were the case then about 90% of the comments here would be hidden due to negative feedback. Attitudeds and comments like this from atheists is maybe why the soup kitchen turned u guys down.
At one point I came into this question and had 13 answers hidden. Except one all were people who felt the director did the wrong thing. If it was a question w/ answers talking bad about atheist I'd assume atheist were marking down. This is logic.
The only one that is hidden is one that is justifying the actions of the soup kitchen. That is a fact, which you have presented none of, so please don't try to preach logic to me until you start to practice it.
The only answer I see hidden due to negative feedback is by someone siding with the director - I'm sure Christians didn't do that. None of the atheist comments are hidden due to negative feedback.
Again, I didn't say they were hidden now! AT ONE POINT half WERE hidden. What is your problem Mklow? I have never once bashed believers here? i have always respected the opinions of others, so do you simply have a problem with me because I'm atheist?
It is not her fault! It is the other's who have voted thumbs down on the comment.
It's obvious what his problem is - you make a bifg deal out of negatives on atheist answers but say nothing about the first answer that was hidden being pro Christian.
No, I don't have a problem w/ u. I have agreed with u when u said things correctly haven't I? I am merely stating facts, whereas u r bashing Christians by saying something that we cannot prove or disprove. Fact: Pro-Christian statement is hidden.
Big deal? I commented on MY question to speak to someone who felt bad about their answer being hidden. I replied out of respect. So yeah, I was making a big deal out of her understanding it wasn't her fault. The other person didn't mention it!
But u could have done so without the backhanded comment about Christians that wasn't based on facts.
So atheist who likely agree with her are the ones voting her down? This was my point about logic (not insult). This was likely voted down by Christians and the other answer likely voted down by atheist. The other answerer just didn't mention it.
Using words like "likely" to describe the ones that could have voted down shows a subjective point of view, therefore you are not basing your assumption on facts or logic.
Logic is reasoning. Which is exactly what I did. I will agree to disagree since you obviously just want to debate. I don't post these questions to argue with believers, but to see opinions different than mine.
U said:"since you obviously just want to debate"
said pot 2 the kettle. lol
U said:" I don't post these questions to argue with believers"
actions speak louder than words
U said:" but to see opinions different than mine."
I gave u that + bonus facts
Well now I feel bad that my comment about feeling bad has created these disagreements. I appreciate the fact that this conversation developed originally as people trying to help me feel better. I had not been "thumbed down" before, so it was a shock.
Those who follow the Christian rule achieve many more than just 2 steps forward, and never get knocked back one step. The dark ages are continually fronted by those who deny Christ.
Wayne, it's never religion that knocks us back. Economics, government, military and more can knock us back. But the real culprit is ego -- the equal-opportunity destroyer.
Two steps back??? Think again. Universities, charities, hospitals are mostly built by religious groups.
Also, read this:
That will make you think twice.
Wayne, you are just plain wrong on your initial assumption. Hang out with them in a park or next to a shelter or at a church food line. Many many many have deep religious feelings and faith. Almost to a one, they can talk politics and have opinions.
Well out of the ones here, 300 of them didn't care we were atheist giving out stuff they needed. So their faith was irreverent to the fact they have the same basic needs all humans do. If in need, I would feed my child with food from any religion.
Well peeples, I think this is a normal attitude. (I hope you meant irrelevant instead of irreverent)
And it is awesome to hand out one time deals on a corner. Was it raining or snowing? Did you do it 30 days in a row, or ten years?
Rebuke evil and it shall cease - for righteousness shall bring multitudes while wickedness spurn them. Open acceptance is common in the righteous but they rebuke the wicked. The path of righteousness is filled with many friends, the wicked one not.
Your entire answer implies atheist should not work together with Christians. Do you realize how many are family, married to, have children that are, or are good friends with Christians?
I agree peeples. My grandparents for example. My grandmother was devoutly religious and my grandfather was a devout atheist, yet they managed to be married many years and to support one another. They gave me hope in humanity.
Well you obviously know nothing about Christianity but a lot about unbelievers - you may have read what I wrote but you understand none of it and your comment demonstrates are happy to remain ignorant only seeing your side of the story.
Please enlighten me since you are so superior. " I doubt any true Christian organization can justify having atheists in ministry positions." Implies they shouldn't work together to help those in need.
Thank you for proving my point once again - you know nothing of Christianity yet YOU are so superior you don't hesitate to presume upon them how to practice their ministry and how they should believe. Only Ignorance breeds your kind of contempt.
As an individual who provides charity to others, you are not viewed as an atheist. If you demand that Christian articles be removed from a public consecrated area you will be revered as evil. Those who walk the path of righteousness do not hide.
you dont think this kind of thing is normal practice though do you? really how many christian run programs have you heard this kind of thing from?
Truthfully Christiananrkist 87, I've never heard of this happening but then, I don't really get involved with organized religion. I suppose it is possible...
Ironically you are judging them without knowing the whole story, so why do you get a pass and they don't?
As a Christian, I am taught to rebuke evil. This includes accepting false charity from those who wish to be recognized as good when they spread evil. No one goes hungry when Christians provide the table cause God always provides a way. Blessed be God
I completely agree with the no strings. No one should do that - it's just not right. Who cares? I can't understand why our common humanity isn't enough. We have to be divisive even in giving.. smh.
You guys just do not get it. You just have to project --- how it would be for you. Homeless that patron a church soup kitchen go there by choice. Or possibly without choice because the community gives them none --- shame on atheists.
Shame on atheists? for what? wanting to help others? shame on self-righteous "Christians" who would turn away help due to their own prejudices.
ChristinS, One time handouts or little rallies do not help the Homeless in any meaningful way. They are drive by's to make the giver happy. You make it clear that the action was taken for atheists by atheists. Not a commitment to help.
Ericdierker, Wow, you're assuming a great deal about Christin and me. You don't know who we are or what we do in the world. I wouldn't preach to those who "get it" and r active for consummate social change that would make soup kitchens unnecessary.
Eric, you have no idea what atheists like me do in our communities, and guess what? no one knows I'm an atheist or they'd turn down my help. Stop pretending you know everyone's motivations because you don't.
Yes you two are still missing the point. Homeless people have thoughts and attitudes also. Ones who want to go to a Christian Church go there. Many do not want atheists there. Is that clear enough. Church Soup kitchens have patrons --- not idiots.
Erickierker, Oh NOW I get it. Thanks so much! I thought Christ's message was something totally different! I thought Christ, if homeless,would embrace me n say "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.(and pure of heart-see God) My bad.
No you still miss the point. I am sorry but it is not about you. That might be cool, but it is not. When you are homeless you have freedom. No bones to hold, and that is all you got. You want to make a person going to a church atheist? Why?
as usual, the non-believers demand they be equal to the believers. in order to be equal, one must believe in God. this is a choice just as in everything else. the choice to serve God & his Church soup kitchen demands that the individual serve God
http://www.hlntv.com/ Scroll down to story number 6, http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/24/jesus-w... The last is more in depth
peeples - these 2 stories do not tell the tale, they simply portray selected quotes from the people interviewed.
The atheist group discriminates by stating:
"This group is open to all atheists, agnostics, humanists, etc."
I am part of this group and so is my Christian husband, even though the name is upstate atheist. There are Jews and Wiccas also. We don't attempt to convert but welcome any and all who are looking for a charitable organization to be part of.
Peeples, I hate to see that type of ignorance from the director and she needs to get her priorities straight. I have moved around a lot n my life and been to a lot of churches, so I would not say this is an exception and not the rule n my experience.
peeples - since you state you are a member of this charitable group, would you mind if I have a Priest come to your charitable site and consecrate it for the goodness God has provided? Or do you discriminate against such activity?
tbHistorian. You are anonymous. It is one thing to give anonymously. But NO Christian can preach anonymously. Skidaddle back to under a rock. You hurt Christians intentionally. That is bad juice.
Ah, a breath of fresh air - there is always "the rest of the story"
Seems a little harsh since we only know one side of the story. We are not in a position to judge the director or her motives. She may not have seen the preparation of the bags to know that they were suitable to hand out. Truth is we don't know.
They did it b/c they knew the reaction the religious group would have. Bad PR for a church is good PR to atheists. And BTW, you said "atheistic beliefs". They have no beliefs, they are atheists because they are against a belief, not b/c they have thm
I see your point. i think what they did is wrong still, but there really was no need to mention they were atheist.
if what you say is true, that means they had no intention in volunteering. atheists do have beliefs. such as no god exists.
Then why do it in the name of Atheism? Why not just do it for the deed its self?
okay a) I do not have a belief that no gods exist. I think it's not accurate to characterize all atheists that way
b) as opposed to church groups that sermonize and proselytize that are only doing the good deed for the sake of the deed, yes?
Ok, from my understanding, an atheist is: " Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist"
So, I think it is accurate to characterize all atheists that way if they consider themselves atheist. elaborate if wrong.
your definition would be correct. I lack belief in a god because no god has been sufficiently proven. I was responding to the other comment that atheists "believe no gods exist"
Renee, as a business person I find it a daily occurance that when I do something I introduce myself as Hi I'm (insert name) and I am with (insert company/group). This is a common approach to adult life for many.
So the Atheist group was not a volunteer organization, it was an atheist company? Do they only hire atheists or can anyone apply?
If you see I said company/group. If a group of people walk in to any place to volunteer the first question asked is what company/group are you from. Get a group together and go to any charity and this question is asked. They are a group.
It's true. If you have more than one or two people and you walk into a shelter, a lot of the times the first question they ask is what organization or group you're from. A lot of times, they skip group and ask what CHURCH you're from.
Necessity is the mother of invention, so is the atheist group going to just complain or are they going to do something constructive and make a positive from a negative. Put up or shut up so to speak. That would show the true intentions were honorable
They already did. This past Saturday they stood on a street corner and passed out all the 300 bags they had for the homeless. We've already moved on to the next project.
I don't necessarily think that asking a question is complaining or whining. Since the time this question went up, I've volunteered twice for a couple good causes. How about you?
Once, but not to toot my own horn or because a question on the internet inspired me. This is just what I do every week. I have to say that my church is very proactive and organized, like many churches, so I would have to tip my hat to them.
Sure. And I'm sure the rest of us do it for poor or nefarious reasons.
and by that you mean?
Your opening comment asserted that these atheists volunteered to make a Christian organization look bad, and you later implied tha atheists would volunteer their time only because of this post. Neither assertions are true, and it appears arrogant
Computers lack empathy as do conversations on the internet. If you gathered these feelings from my post, then maybe you are projecting some insecurities of your own.
Maybe. Or maybe you should re read your first post and reevaluate your approach.
"They did it b/c they knew the reaction the religious group would have and bad pr for Christians is good pr for atheists"
maybe you should read my last post and re-evaluate yourself
Sure, whatever you say. I'm willing to admit that I may have been reading things into it that weren't intended, but you aren't willing to reevaluate and do the same. Got it. No longer worth the effort to find common ground.
Wow, you are just getting that now? I have been reading your posts for a long time, so I knew better than to expect you to find common ground with me.
I think I see part of the reason right here. Better to say no and be done. Than to give it time to work it's way into the minds of all of those involved. Kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario.
The rancor is clear. Avoid it.
hey JM. sorry to comment 2 days later. i dont mean characterize anyone a certain way. However, what exactly does the term atheists mean?
im unclear if your question from 2 days ago was directed at me.
I'm sure the kitchen knew who they were, it was a small town. What they made known was that they promised not to make known they were atheists, they wanted Christians to agree to deception - wolves in sheep's clothing? - no God no punishment for sin.
The director should neither be ashamed or proud, the director followed the path of righteousness by rebuking evil. We cannot side with evil if we follow in the footsteps of the Lord. Jesus did not eat with Evil Kings but with the righteous poor.
Jesus ate with the tax collectors and was scorned for doing so. Jesus would welcome anyone and everyone. No one is turned away from him if they will only receive his grace. Hate and scorn are not the way to Christ.
Yes, Jesus ate with the tax collectors. Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick." If you believe that the director was a doctor, then God would have permitted atheist to enter the soup kitchen. But the director was not.
Neither Jesus nor his disciples ever invited unbelievers to be in ministry. Christian Ministries do not allow unbelievers to participate in serving...in any capacity. That does not mean that unbelievers are not welcomed in the congregation.
The verse you are talking about is a parable. Jesus was teaching that the lost need him more than those who have already accepted him into our hearts. Where do you think Jesus would go if he walked the earth? Where he is "NEEDED."
We don't know what their intentions were! Or the directors. She could have been prioritizing the spreading of the Gospel over the need for more physical help. It is alarming to see so many quick judgements made by Christians about a vague scenario...
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