I am always interested, and quite envious, about people who are completely convinced of an afterlife. People who believe in the afterlife, do you feel that you KNOW there is life after death and if so how can you be so sure?
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Nicely said, CV.
I don't want proof myself I just want an explanation of how people can be so sure about something without proof if that makes sense.
Wow. Good answer!
Nice answer. But, I beg to differ that science is not based on faith. Scientific conclusions are peer reviewed by the scientific community and then approved. Whereas, faith is a subjective experience that cannot be proved empirically.
Science is not based on faith, CV. Atoms, protons, and neutrons have all been OBSERVED and anyone can see them. The claims of religion cannot be observed but rather they are believed without evidence.
Thanks for your answer- let me know when your novel is finished I would love to read it. Did you ever study possible naturalistic explanations for NDEs and if so did they convince you at all?
I want to read your novel when it is done! Very compelling. I just love faith!
Yes :-) I did read the naturalistic explanations and no, they did not convince me. What I studied was far beyond the tunnels, lights, and feelings of flight, love--accounts that include information that naturalistic explanations have no answer for.
I am very much interested and love to read your novel .
Yes Kolin, that's the thing. If we want to know, we have to study. One can't just speculate or look at the Bible in terms of Western views. The Bible is a middle eastern book & an excellent historical reference regarding those times. It teaches w
H'm. Sounds quite interesting in conjunction to the above question related to " faith " and " belief " . Do these ' Theresa Capputo and John Edwards have something extra supportive to the FAITH's origin ?
Yes I teach about NDEs and so am familiar with them but I am also familiar with plenty of naturalistic explanations for them too so they don't provide enough proof for me.
No that makes sense- guess you shouldn't believe in God just for potential rewards- God would see through that , that is why Pascal's Wager fails.
Nice. Good life is surely a good reason to believe.
By the way, Meg, I think your comment just sent most of the believers to hell.
I wonder what fails here - pascal's wager or abrahamic religions
I do not think Pascal's wager fails. He was simply saying that the bet is that there is a God, not that there is not. At least, I do not read into it any more than that. If nothing but evil existed, we would most certainly hope for God & goodness
That's right. Our inner selves only crave for love, beauty, and harmony. Without serving a higher power that epitomise these three qualities there is no true happiness derived from our senses. Gross enjoyment leads to misery.
Yes what people believe happens in life after death is a whole other kettle of fish or more likely, can of worms- maybe I'll go down that road for my next question...
My answer would be cos life is unfair- because we are the product of evolution and sometimes there are mutations- surely disteleology is evidence against God!
Disteleology does not prove that consciousness is a product of matter. Therefore it is not an evidence against God. Also, the word 'Unfair' assumes a moral principle. I wonder where that comes from.
Well for me the idea of an all loving all powerful God creating things badly seems absurd. Fairness and morality can exist without God- they can be an evolutionary trait to help humans live in societies
For me the theory of 'chance' seems absurd. We ourselves ask such intelligent questions that no other species thinks about, and yet we deny an intelligent source. Just as a person born and living in a dark cave will never agree that there is a sun.
Yeah there are a lot of potential awkward moments if the afterlife is real- like if a widow remarries who are they with in heaven? I always think about that
Meg Moon, Cute! I do too! Apparently we'll be beyond all feeling of envy, anger, and so on and exist in a "beatific" state, but Meg, it's way beyond my meager mind's capacity to understand.
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Matt 22:28-30 In other words, who you had married won't be an issue, even for widows.
Meg Moon, we had several families in past lives and we'll have several of them in our future lives. Like this we wander in cycle of birth and death across earthly, heavenly, and hellish planets. The goal is to escape this cycle by turning towards God
when you see a ghost can you tell it is a ghost- do they look different?
OK, I get that on a theoretical level. But it is still all about ifs. So for instance IF we assume God is just then there must be some kind of recompense in an afterlife but what if God is not just or doesn't even exist?
I have seen quite a bit about youngsters who do remember some stuff- this makes a very convincing case for reincarnation I have to admit- even for a skeptic like me!
OK so it seems a believer's conviction in the afterlife comes first from their conviction in a divine being.Perhaps unless you have this then you cannot always be so certain of the afterlife.
Of course my sister, do you have another authority ?. Is it difficult for Him who created you from smudge of water to resurrect you after death ? The difficulty is only in your mind . He can only say to anything ''Be'' and it becomes tangible .
yes I believe in life after death in that sense- but I meant a more traditional religious view of living on in heaven or else in a new life etc
The answer would only rely on what you perceive and believe your thoughts can only be true to you when religion is mixed with reality truth is we have no proven evidence of a heaven but we do have proof of myricals which the BIBLE is built on.
I never said I knew anything
Let me rephrase my question, if there was no life after death then why are we all debating here?
I think we can debate concepts without their necessarily having any objective existence- I don't know whether there is an afterlife but there is certainly the concept of it so we are able to debate it- even though this is more trying to understand*
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Oh go on then. Give us some examples ;-)
i have witnessed loved ones who have experienced death, angels, and demons. seek truth for the peace it brings. question to find truth not to avoid it. fear is a state of mind overcome by what speaks to us as truth. i hope you find what you seek.
But again- if I base belief in the afterlife on the Bible that begs the question how can I know the Bible is the word of God when evidence suggests it is the words of men- and even then only the words the Church wanted us to see?
Meg, readers must first realize that the gospels were written in the 1st century AD, within a generation of Jesus. The authors were careful about accuracy; this is significant.
Evans is a renowned scholar
When the Gospels was written does nothing to prove they are the word of God though savvydating. Many other gospels were written but not canonized why is that? Many contradict each other- all evidence they are written by men and no proof of afterlife
Criteria exists for what is accurate and what is not & it is based upon eyewitness accounts & historical evidence. The average person knows nothing about these things, but they can be learned with study.
Faith is found in all holy books not the bible alone .
Because you're in BIG TROUBLE if you die and it turns out God exists, and you never believed in Him nor lived a life pleasing to Him!
If you don't believe there is life after death and there really isn't what have you lost by believing there is? Try vice versa, and there is a heaven and a hell - you've lost eternity.
I don't think God would accept belief based on a calculated effort to attain some reward in the hereafter- I like to think God, if real, is not such a megalomaniac and will judge you on your works rather than your faith- whole other debate I know...
There are no contradictions on the Bible? Seriously!Genesis has two different accounts of creation. The Gospels give two separate accounts of the birth of Jesus. Also re the prophecy- there is no historical evidence to back them up
could you give me the passages you are speaking of for the genesis account and the birth of Jesus? the historical evidence is the old testament writings occurring 400+ yrs prior to the events. which are then written about by people within a lifetieme
First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3) Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25). Re Nativity they differ over conception, place of birth, adoration, star. angel, murder of innocents. The OT was known to NT writers so they just fabricate their tale to match prophecy
Thank you. I'll answer the contradiction on those accounts on my next few comments. How could the NT writers fabricate the tale to match the OT if they didnt know about it?
They couldn't if they didn't know it but they were mainly Jews or Jewish converts to Xy so they would be v. familiar with their own scripture- The OT! Matthew 13:14 for instance actually says how a prophecy from Isiah had been fulfilled so they knew
lol. sorry i misread your last response. the genesis account is really a matter of it just not being intended to be a chronological order of things. Its actually very apparent when read in its entirety and context. character limits dont allow detail
I know limits are annoying hey? Hmm maybe re- Genesis but what about nativity. Also my biggest inconsistency is St Paul- IMO going against everything that JC stood for- I like JC, not so much Paul/Saul!
yeah they are. the nativity is definitely a more complicated issue. you have inspired me to write a hub on the inconsistencies in the bible. could be a while though. if limits allow would you mind give me some you think are the biggest contradictions
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bibl... This might help- written from an atheist perspective but will give you something to go on/look further into- I look forward to your hub :)
awesome. an atheists perspective is what i want. thank you.