I have an ongoing debated with a friend of mine and I disagree with her premise. I believe God loves ALL people. He wants ALL people to be saved and not JUST the ELECT or shall we say CHOSEN. I have a hard time struggling with her point because in my heart I believe God loves all people and by giving us his gift of Jesus sacrifice, we choose to accept or deny him, otherwise it wouldn't be love. It would be predetermined and cold, which is not love at all. Any thoughts on this?? In my defense I turn to Romans 3:22. "...And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are."
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Definitely helpful. Thank you.
I had much more to say, but I ran out of space. I just want to say that we believe because He enabled us to believe. God elects people to believe in Him. His election is an act of mercy and grace to ill-deserving sinners.
cr-not true. we free will and ALL MEN are welcome to the Kingdom of God-but- not ALL MEN will accept His terms and actually make it in. 1Tim 2:3-4For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved
Both passages are equally inspired by God--one inferring to God's desires and the other His decree. We can conclude that God has multiple wills (will of command & will of decree). God desires all to be saved but in His great mercy He decrees some
typical church gobbledygook
I'll just make one more defense and I'll be done. I implore you to read the ninth chapter of Romans from a good translation. Please tell me what's the controversy that Paul addresses in verses 14 & 19? Why does he anticipate the reader's objectio
these verses in no way prove the point you are trying to make. they prove that God has the right and ability to do as He wishes, show mercy or not. Has nothing to say about your doctrine of pre-ordination
Oh really? So verse 16 has nothing to say about? "So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."
The whole chapter is dedicated to prove this verse. Okay, now I'm done. Not here to debate. Peace.
Chris---God has two wills? This is utter foolishness. It's an attempt to make a heresy fit into the Bible. How foolish it is to say that God is loving when he only gives a few the ability to believe and be saved. You are given to a cause, and blind.
Thank you so much. This makes perfect sense. I just saw this for the first time. You really made it make sense.
Melissa, I have two hubs that explain these things in detail if you're interested: "Divine Election of the Saints" and "Golden Chain of Salvation."
Ahhhh good point. Thank you for sharing that.
this is not biblical
Acts 10:34 - (Peter speaking) "I perceive that God is no respecter of persons; But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."
i mean the three here afters is not biblical
I was stating my personal belief and I specified that it is. How do you read the scriptures as to what eternal life will be like? Is there eternal damnation? Separation from God is possibly justice enough for some. And for those ignorant of Christ?
personal belief is worth NOTHING. What the bible say is the only belief with value. mormon doctrine is not biblical. There is ONLY ONE hereafter.
It starts after the great Judgement
"Personal belief" IS what you believe. Celafoe, you believe that you have a right interpretation of the Bible...that is your personal belief. Every interpretation of the Bible passes through your personal belief.
That's beautiful. I feel that if you love God, you will desire to obey his commandments. It is not for what you can get but rather for whom you love. I feel ALL humans slip up and thank God we have a redeemer in Jesus Christ our Lord to forgive us
Ahh very nicely put. Thank you. :-)
and you see it correctly.
Calvinists say that God chose certain people based on no action of their own. They do not even teach that God chose them based on their FUTURE BELIEF in Christ. If God has chosen some, the rest are by default chosen for destruction.
Robert, I have two hubs that address the very thing you speak about and explain it biblically. I suggest reading first "Divine Election of the Saints" then "Golden Chain of Salvation." Together they should help clear up any questions you might have.
I'm familiar with Calvinism and predestination, Chris. You believe that God gives people the ability to believe. The rest are doomed to destruction. If this is the case, your god is most horrible.
How is that horrible? Would you rather He leave us all to our natural free will which no one would believe and God would then justly throw us into hell? That my friend would be horrible.
I don't need to explain this to you. It's horrible that god would only give a small group of people the ability to believe and leave the rest to perish.
You know, Robert, it is such a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE thing for God to make a way for EVERYBODY to come to Him but many still refuse it.
Well, according to Chris, it's not everybody. Only those who are chosen.
That's not what I say. I say what scripture says. That the cross is sufficient and offered to all people. The good news is that salvation is offered to all but the greater news is that it is made certain and effective for some--the elect.
You can't disguise it under all the spiritual jargon. It's contradictory. Offered to all but only some are made able to receive it---then it's NOT truly offered to all!
Robert, I bet you haven't even considered any of my arguments from Scripture that support exactly what I am saying. You're turning a blind eye. At least read and consider what I've written (here and elsewhere), weigh the Scriptures and then decide.