I've heard people try to convince atheists that there is a God by quoting the Bible or some other holy book. But quoting from such materials won't work. You have to believe in them before you can accept them as plausible explanation.
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I appreciate your views on this. thanks. the challenge of putting forward a physical proof is one that is difficult.
It is quite right. Why unnecessarily waste time and energy in such discussions and meet the ire of people. If anybody seeks your help, then you can try to guide him. But not go uninvitedly pouncing your beliefs on others. There is much more to do.
dashing--Out of all this you speak to what should be and I would applaud your words.
@Dashingscorpio - I understand your sentiments. But I'm not keen on just focusing on things that people agree upon. It's the differences of opinions and views that help shape our society. Whether good or bad, it helps create our world.
It's definitely a difficult task to explain the existence of something that has no concrete evidence. If he exists, maybe he doesn't want everyone to know?
You're funny junkseller. The comedic relief is greatly needed here. LOL
Amen - no pun intended! - to that. It very much depends on the atheist in question - some of them are open to discussion, if not faith, while others are just looking for the easiest way to ridicule you.
Very well put Venkatachari M. As God is personal, finding out what they do believe may help. Many people who self-identify as atheists might accept the possibility of God or just be unwilling to call what they do believe in God.
This is a wonderful comment my friend. I have friend both believers and non-believers and we get along perfectly. I suppose that's why some call it faith. Believing without much explanation or proof.
I wish I could delete this. I was angry when I rote it because I felt insulted by the question. The question presupposes that atheists have not heard all the arguments before and come to their own conclusion..
If I believed that when you died you were going to Hell because you did not accept Christ as your Savior, how much would I have to hate you NOT to try to convince you to accept Christ?
Asa - and if I believed that yr belief would send you to a place I would not wish to go, how much would I need to hate you not to tell u? Yet you would not appreciate me telling u as it would be seen as an insult by u. Same goes 4 the vice versa
I understand the frustration. I think we all grow weary of having the same arguments from time to time. I do think it helps when people talk, just to know decent people can disagree and be friendly anyway.
Even Jesus had a hard time with the Bible, obviously.
The question is how to explain it to atheists. You and I can believe God's existence and his wonderful world to be his creation. But when somebody not believes it to be God's creation nor accepts His existence, how to convince him? I think we can't
You are right. At that point it is hard to convince. It is like trying to force somebody change which is not possible as one changes his behavior on his own will. Well, we pray for them and leave it God after trying to explain.
I can understand what you are trying to explain here. However, i don't really think atheists will be convinced.
Evolution and the Big Bang do not disprove God. Christians can accept the findings of science and believe in God and Jesus as their Lord and savior. It shouldn't be a question of either/or.
To say that holy simply means without flaw seems to be an oversimplification. I would say holy more clearly means "of God" in some form or another. Obviously imperfect mortals will muddle that which is "of God" but it can still be holy and of worth
Thank you for the response. it's quite interesting. But I asked the question not to save anyone nor to fuel my ego. I just hate it when some believer just quotes from some book and thinks he/she can convert someone over to his/her beliefs.
Donald--If fact is difficult to provide then is it not obvious that theists should not claim gods factual or having truth. The claim requires proof or simply make no claim of fact.
Interesting symbol of the flag, have you ever read what the Star Spangled Banner totally said in the song? As an atheist I am surprised you shroud yourself with religion and then question the people who provide you that freedom to be an atheist.
think--America was founded on secular principles as contained in the Bill of Rights, not theistic principles. Certainly, freedom of religion, freedom of speech cannot be found in the bible.
I just found it quizzical you symbolize a flag versed with "In God is our trust" within the Star Spangled Banner, yet in the next breath disparage those who believe in something, paralleling one to a used car salesman or a teenager. Fascinating.
think--Yes! Understandably confusing. My great loyalty is to the Constitution, not to songs, although I like them and not to a would be theocracy, which without the Constitution there would be.
Thinkocrates, I'm glad we don't live in a Christian theocracy. The only freedom people would have is to follow the Christian religion. The founders of the USA wanted to ensure that NO religion could dominate the government and laws.
It's just fascinating how humans have devised ways to trump each other. Whether it is about religion, politics or whatever. Ultimately, we choose what we believe in. Thank you for responding to the question.
"The best evidence are personal experiences." --- This makes Christianity unaccountable. Everything supposedly happens after death. If you are wrong, who will know? A god who loves people would not base his truth on "personal experiences" alone.
Not everything. His spirit can be felt, miracles happen & prayers answered. Just saying, if science isn't convincing you; Perhaps one has to have faith before experiencing. It's based on faith. Seek (w/ faith) & find. A loving God gave us Hi
I have, Crissy. I held the same beliefs as you a few years ago. Science does not prove God. You think it does because you are ALREADY convinced of him. Christians see science through there own colored lenses.
*A loving God gave us His Word
Yes, you say...though I was talking about science. Science is based on facts and evidence.
Thank you for the reply. The question is all about existence of god without any holy book or some scripture or ancient text. I was just wondering why many believers keep on quoting books. Don't they have anything else?
Not really JP. the only other evidence I have seen people present is "I feel/met god", which obviously means nothing to anyone but them self and other believers since they can't prove it actually is god
Other than their personal experiences, which aren't necessarily proof to another who has not had the experience, I don't think they do. But I also think thats the inherent issue in any religion - it's personal, therefore convincing another is difficu
I think it is freeing to define yourself by what you do believe. Humanism is one of my favorite non-theist religions!. I am partial to Jainism too.
If a Muslim comes to me to "spread the good news" of his religion and I don't receive it, am I condemned?
Possibly. The objective is Truth, not a mortal religion. Ego perverts these physical organizations. "Condemned" means cut off from the spiritual, but this is not punishment from outside. It's only the natural result of their internal decision.
You know, none of that is even an valid argument seeing that God and Jesus of the faith of Judaism and Christianity are nothing more than a man made myth by using other religious beliefs to create one god and one so called savior. Best is not trying!
Pastor Wolfe, to seek to debate solely by attempting to invalidate someone else not only is the lowest form of debate but generally reveals nothing more than your own inability to debate your side logically.
TL you are clearly ignorant! I am a Pagan Minister who is on a quest to take back that in which Christianity has stolen from us! You have no damn right to use our symbols and celebrate our holidays and change the name of our gods and then condemn us!
Pastor Wolfe, If you believe in a higher being, and I believe in a higher being, than we should not be fighting each other. Instead of setting sights on each other, we should be defending each other, hand in hand, against secularism.
TL the only way I would find peace with you is if you admit that Christianity has stolen our beliefs, symbols and Holidays by claiming them as their own, then falsely condemning us! Thus it is Osiris that demands Justice for what Christianity did!
Pastor Wolfe, may you find peace and love in any way your spirit guides you.
TL classic Christianity BS!
What argument have I made? Not one. Where does it state that I am a part of any religion. Nowhere. Moreover, this OP is not about the bible, but any holy book. A religion is not a person and as such incapable of stealing anything. Peace.
Oh but the people Who created Christianity did in fact stole from other beliefs thus creating a fake god and savior! Although you may claim no religion. The correct answer is that you shouldn't even dare try to explain for their will is free!
Pastor Wolfe, how do your comments here in anyway paint what you are trying to share in a good light? True religion isn't about some obscure argument over where religious ideas came from, its about lifting people up in a dark world.
Unfortunately I am incapable of understanding your statements. I do see that you have self proclaimed yourself as a guru and a living Christ on your page - good luck with that.
Atheists don't fight against god, anymore than they fight against the Toothfairy or Paul Bunyan. They fight against what people do in the name of their make-believe friends.
Oh, yes, Christians do so much evil in the name of their make-believe friends. You see it everywhere!
So-called atheists DO fight against God. Let's see….Evolution vs. God…"The God Delusion"…"God, No!"
Well, when religious people slaughter (semi-past) and discriminate (present) against people who do not think the same things...kind of understandable for them to fight back. Your statement that man "knows" god exists is a lie by the way.
You nailed it, junkseller.
Advocating for evolution isn't fighting against god, it is a fight against people who want our children to be scientifically illiterate. Just like they fight against inequality (same-sex marriage) and other stupifications (e.g. abstinence).
"Atheists" discriminate just as much if not more so than religious people. Atheists also have a higher death toll than any religious people I've read. Hitler and Robespierre were atheists.
Your title of atheist: a person who denies existence of God
A lot of Christians suck as well. Point? The majority of atheists really don't care about your God. Sorry, but that's the way it is. They care about how people treat others.
You can always find someone in a group is a jerk, but to then denounce the whole group as bad is ignorant and narrow-minded. You reject God because you enjoy your sinning; you fight against Christianity because you know it's the truth.
"denounce the whole group as bad is ignorant and narrow-minded" Says the person doing the exact thing!!!
Where and when did I denounce a whole group? Or fight against Christianity? You're just making stuff up. For that matter, who said I rejected God? I'll happily stack my sins up against anyone.
Saying Christians are scientifically illiterate, stupid (stupifiications), discriminate etc, is fighting Christianity. /And do you not see in your first comment you say you FIGHT Christians??
Slick comment though.
Why fight for something that you do not "believe" in?? I do not believe in Santa Claus.. but I'm certainly not going to fight with anyone or debate about it. So, why even bother?
Whether you believe or not believe in something, it is your right. Why should anybody fight for or against it?
Venkatachari M....... That is my question... why fight or debate if there is no God if you do not believe? It is rather pointless don't you think?
Exactly JTHomp! Christians "fight" for their BELIEF. Why should atheists fight for an Unbelief? There are millions of things each of us don't believe in!
But if I believed you were going to Hell how much would I have to hate you NOT to tell you that?
My position is plain. I fight against what people do, not what they are. That doesn't change because you mischaracterize it. Believe creationism if you want, don't try and teach it to my kid. It isn't complicated (except for you apparently).
junk.. now do not get childish and start labeling people and try to make fun of someone else's beliefs. What really gets me is you would argue until you are blue in the face and waste so much time and energy about a topic you do not believe in... GOD
Where did I label someone? Or make fun of someone? Or argue about God? You too are just making stuff up. What I believe, and I believe it very strongly, and what I argue about is keeping people's gods out of my life.
And how would you want people to that? I mean really?
Very easy to do JT. Anyone with the smallest amount of common decency would simply not talk about their god around people who are not of the same believe.
How are people going to know this link? What if you are doing the same talking to your atheists friends and a Christian walks up.. are you going to stop your conversation? Or will you continue your conversation?
I dont know why you assume that one needs to know another's religious background in order to talk to them. If religion comes up, you let them know. If it doesnt then it doesnt, you act as if atheists talk about atheistic things all the time.
And vice-versa Link.
And vice versa what, exactly?
It amazes me at the extent you go to say so and so does this and they do that. What you are really saying is what you are saying, how you are acting is exactly the same behavior you are blaming everyone else on.
Don't limit options, or force options onto people, if those options trace back to a god, a church, or a holy book.
junk... and you are saying that you have the right to do exactly what you are telling everyone else not to do? Amazing!
I am not limiting or forcing options which trace back to religion. So again, you're just making stuff up. Amazing!
You are saying what you expect from people around you and how society better act around you or you have been wronged. Im afraid this is not the way it works. Normally you get what you give.
If you can point us in the direction of statistics that prove atheists proclaim their non belief more than christians proclaim their belief when completely unwarranted, I think your comments would make more sense JT.
And again Link... can you or junk do the same?
So rather than provide a source and then ask me that question, you ignore me completely but still reverse ask the question.
junkseller Not all Christians reject evolution or are against ALL people having all the same rights. There are Christians who care very much how non-Christians are treated. Being a Christian doesn't make a good person or a bad one.
quildon--The words you used are Pascals. It is called Pascals Wager. It is only a fear tactic used to nullify human reason, but that is the essence of thesim.
Interesting point. Facts supporting the existence of God may be difficult for some to find.
I'm not sure our environment can be said to be "fact" for the existence of God. A Christian can look at a flower and see god's design, while an atheist sees evolution at work. I think you need to redefine what a fact is.
and what if you believe the wrong god?
You're right quildon: It doesn't cost them anything and they will reap "benefits" that they've never experienced before even in this life! Education and the belief that they are "I AM" seems to be their basic belief! However, science has not proven
There is no reason to try and explain anything to you people. You are as set in your beliefs as I am mine. You people are actually terrified that the Bible is true that you feel the need to be very condescending and just rude. Read instead of listeni
Sumerian/Egyptian/Shamanism/Buddhism need I go on? The bible is nothing more than made up stories and stolen beliefs! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKNF_Rvw_18 This is what I think about that book!!
wolfe...... Then stop obsessing about it and leave it alone. What do you think you are going to do? Convert everyone to atheism? Just watch your videos and enjoy yourself. Why do you call yourself Pastor anyway? Pastor of hate and manipulation?
I am a high priest that declares war upon Christianity! For Christianity attacked me, I now return the favor, thus exposing the lies you all preach! I am not obsessing I am doing what I was called to do, defend my ancestors and destroy Christianity!
Called by who? The devil/evil/Bugs Bunny? Just another excuse to spread lies. Do you answer to this entity. What if you fail your mission wolfe? What then? You had better know and be prepared for the circumstances.
I was called by Marduk, Ra, Osiris, Horus, Isis, Ishtar, Nut, Nu, Nunet, Ma'ati and numerous other gods and goddesses of my ancestors! I will not fail, I will prosper! My words are my power, my strength thus all in which are truth! I speak no lies!
I am no more terrified that the bible is true than I am that Harry Potter is true. Why is it rude to question bible stories? You find it rude because it is impossible to explain and could not have happened.
Gen 7:2! Not 2 but 7 "clean" animals! God was in the midst! Watch the signs in the sky come to pass as told in the Bible! How could they have know 2000 yrs ago if not GOD?
I rest my case!
Link 10103, it is not correct to say that religion is the total rejection of facts. It is through religious and spiritual beliefs that science emerged. Man has become curious to know about facts, only through his religious lessons and curiosity.
I suppose you're not one of those who are willing to convert others. but this is not about converting people. I can feel the futility of convincing and atheist about the existence of god.
No. I do not like such things. I am of the opinion that everybody has his own right to follow his beliefs.
Ven that doesn't make any sense (unless you have proof?). If a believer has total acceptance that God made everything, why would they search for facts?
Venk, you are incorrect about science. Mankind has a naturally inquisitive natural (like some animals). Curiosity about science does not come solely through religious lessons.
Wynter--Witch burnings were not lead by Atheists, so too, the Inquisitions, Crusades, the KKK, the blatant and savage zealotry of Christianity, and Islam.
I never implied any of those things, CJ. I'm well aware of history and the violence within religion, and I do not agree with or condone those things, so I don't see the point in your comment. Hate is a cycle, but the world has made progress.
Wynter--"Internet" Atheism is a bit aggressive and tends to actively target people who believe in a god." Theism tends to be a bit aggressive with many targets, that was the point.
I call it internet Atheism because I doubt it's veracity. I'm not talking about actual Atheists who happen to use the internet, but rather a large group of people who go around insulting religion under the guise of Atheism simply because they can.
Actually sir a car can in deed move without a driver, a country can in fact survive without a government, matter of fact, the government is what's destroying their country. So with that being said, the Universe can indeed survive without Your God!!!
Except that they can, Ahmed...
A car can move but astray and into pits. Country can survive with some leaders and guiders in groups or jointly and it means they are the governors. Same thing with universe. And it means some power (God) guides and leads them. All science is Power.
Venkatachari M - I agree with science being power but in all honesty, people do not need your God to survive. IA makes it possible for cars to move without drivers, perfectly too I may add, not into pits. We don't need governors either. We are Gods!
sorry sir if you think that the car can move without driver that is wrong because the computer is also driver and the human developed this program .. so it is impossible to move .
Ahmed delli- just like the car, AI is also a creation of mankind, AI is not just a computer it is the brain of the machine, making it possible for the machine to think, thus making the car more alive than when it has a human driver.
Padre Wolfe, if You are a God, then a very sorry one, because you're destined to die. the only way you can live after death is through an eternal God. otherwise it will be eternal death. God says "in me you live and breathe and have your being".
Cutie--Can you please supply just one fact, but first perhaps, it would be good if you defined, 'fact'.
It is very silly. You can't find God in books and internet. You will get only descriptions and citations and some images. That 's all. Real God can be found in yourself and your feelings.
I admire your enthusiasm about this however, quoting from the Bible will not do any good for someone who does not believe in the Bible.
Christians have their own definition of the word "fact." To them a fact is ANYTHING that remotely COULD signify the existence of god. To them, a flower or the universe is a "fact" of god's existence. Their definition of fact is skewed.
There are great trinkets of wisdom and inspiration in the Bible, even if you're not a Christian. I'm a Christian, and yet I gain knowledge from Ghandi, Confucius, and even the Quran. True peace comes when we respect what each of us has to offer.
Whatever you may do, you can't make the non-believer to believe in your doctrines. So be happy with your beliefs and let other atheists also live happily with their non-beliefs.
Absolutely, each person needs to make up their mind for themselves
I appreciate the info you gave here. But like what you said, the premise is believing in the Book before accepting the info in it.
You mentioned the apostles giving their lives for Jesus. This is not proof of truth. Muslims blow themselves up for their faith...does that make Islam true?
What is your demonic explanation PASTOR?
LOL JThomp42 give it up, I am wiser than you! We all know you worship evil just like the rest so go play with your dick ok?
You have crossed the line Pastor.. you have been reported and will soon be banned from Hubpages. Good day!
LOL really, I have seen worse on here even the F bomb was slung! I doubt one little report is going to do anything. You trash talk me all the time and I don't report you lol! Just like a cowardly Christian, bet you want your mommy now huh?
Paster Wolfe - what you wrote was inappropriate. You really don't play fair. You owe JT an apology.
Oh and saying that I give demonic explanation is fair? That to me was a personal judgment! So how is what I said not fair and his is?
No comment....... you have totally violated Hubpages agreement against personal attacks.
You are full of lies. You will not be victorious, for Satan and his minions are already defeated. There is no way you can win, and make no mistake, you are on Satan's side. He is headed toward the lake of fire, where do you think you're going?
Well seeing that I have yet any violations on my account, the most will happen is I get a warning. It was my first violation, if they consider it as a violation. I just simply watch what I say next time around!
Not this type of attack..... be warned!
I used the d word, I said go play with it, lol! Oh and Lybrah Satan is not real, he never was even mentioned till the formation of the book! That is why my first comment was Sad, JThomp42 then personally attacked me! I shall prevail! DAY AND NIGHT!
This is no place for such vulgar language! Enjoy your days off PASTOR!!
Personal attack? Lol, what rock are you glued under?
Link..... Read through this thread..... PASTOR crossed the line!
I'd rather have someone tell me to play with my dick than call me an abomination. Food for thought and all.
Better watch that language Link. And nowhere did I call anyone an abomination in this thread.
Yeah link lol watch your language because it is bad to say the DE eye see Kay word! And you may not use the Ef you see Kay as well so please refrain from playing with the DE EYE SEE KAY AND find another way to enjoy thy day! T-I-A-I-H to say!
@THDMMCoven is really Pastor Wolfe. I looked at the new site and it is obvious.
Deleted - cause I really can't be bothered with all this today
Lybrah Um news flash maim, I never said I wasn't further more who cares anyways! I am using this account to express my feelings about you and the rest of the madness within this world thus I deny not of being Pastor Wolfe lol I clearly could care les
If the science once can prove that there is an almighty creator should we wait for that time? If I die before that proving what will be my after death fate? So, we shouldn't wait for that time. That is risky.
God was a scientist, geneticist, botanist, etc.
Thinkocrates i am not speaking about that because modern scientist cannot put their foot in GOD 's shoe who created the whole earth etc. I am speaking about the scientist that try to explain away God etc by talking about the big bang theory etc.
Really? So accusing atheists of being controlled by Satan and Science is the best you can do? And you spout this while using a computer, and many other items invented by science. This world view is the "problem to the answer"
Getitrite this world is satan's kingdown and all these inventions has its goods and bads . We as christians ought to use it wisely the devil do not give nothing for nothing. Many evils can be accessed from d comp/net more than gud. Satan's tool
Im sorry, but what reasonable explanation can you give for god's existence? Real quick: the bible does not count and you "feeling" him does not count either. For that matter, how do you know Satan exists either?
I suppose you're suggesting there is no saving atheist unless there is divine intervention.
LadyFiddler, what if God was behind the Big Bang, thus resulting in both creationism and preprogrammed for evolution to take effect. Thus he was the first mover of both. God, or a creator. Link, for their to be a positive, a negative then exists.
Think, we are talking about God here. People constantly claim he is beyond all known rules of the universe, so by that logic a negative does not need to exist. Regardless, wouldn't that mean Satan is just as powerful and not a creation of God?
Just watch the signs in the sky! Read what the Bible says about the signs and ask yourself, "How could "man" have known about things to come over 2000 years ago? Same thing with the wars spoken of in Scripture! Explain!
Norine Williams.. they will ask us as Christians to give them concrete evidence as far as God existing. But, when asked to give evidence that he does not exist they somehow stop answering?
I think I agree with the overall message of your comment, but can you prove that a spirit/soul exists either? I do not find your claim much different from believers claiming god obviously exists bearing love and peace etc..
Well, to me its like a car. If you take out the battery, it stops working, if you cut the circuitry to your house, no electric will flow, so when I think of spirit, I think of how when I go to a funeral and there is this body there but dead.
Except that a car battery is something you can take out of the car and circuits are something physical you can cut. I do get your meaning, but to then say its the same when talking about the spirit does not make much sense in this regard.
I'm sorry that it does not make sense to you, but that's the beauty of our world, some things we don't understand, and some things we do. I myself choose to understand it this way, and you can disagree, isn't that a wonderful feeling?
As long as you do not claim your belief/understanding is an absolute truth to everyone with no evidence to support such a claim, then yes it is a wonderful feeling to be able to disagree. Otherwise, it is incredibly frustrating.
Did you watch the video on the link I posted above. After learning this some scientist who did not believe in God pryor to learning that scriptures from the bible were decoded in our junk dna.
I was struggling to put my own feelings into words but now after reading this, all I need to say is ditto.
That's what faith is all about. Whether it is in God or in something else. The hope that fuels our actions can be a powerful force.
Hey Lybrah so true thanks for coming by :)
God says he created all men to know he exists in Romans 1. I recently wrote an article on this https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Atheists-...
Tusitala--Your story is interesting and I believe it true. Essentially, what you are saying is that a god originates from minds that do not reason, that are fearful and have no knowledge of what they see. Is that correct?
Jthomp42 your question sure got plenty answers and what i love with questions like these it brings ALL zandolees out of their holes. You see and hear their true colours. Atheist just wants us to believe their garbage and shut up. BUT NEVER EVER!!
You are spot on Lady.
Actually if you all want to get technical, Christianity itself is not all that is cracked up to be either considering they condemn Pagans and yet celebrate their holidays and use their symbols along with using their gods and etc., so yeah Bite me!!
Pastor wolfe........... what's the matter? I've sat and watch you spew your lies about Christianity. What I have come to a conclusion about is you have no idea what you are talking about! You seem to be so caught up in hate you can't see the "truth!"
Tell you what JThomp42 provide proof that I am lying! Your god does not exist seeing that your bible is made up of more than one belief! Christmas and Easter are pagan holidays, the cross pagan, the fish pagan, your so called Christ is fake!!
wolfe........... You have no idea what you are talking about! Pagan, pagan that, the only pagan is you.
JT, are you denying that Christmas and Easter were originally pagan holidays?
Jthomp42 Proof says that your faith is nothing more than stolen beliefs twisted to fit your sexist needs! Christmas and Easter, all our symbols and even our gods are within your teachings!
Christian holidays were not originally pagan holidays, in the sense that they are copies of pagan holidays. The Church designated a pagan holiday as Christmas, for example, to deter people from celebrating the pagan day.
Lybrah Easter and Christmas were originally Pagan Holidays, for They were the first to celebrate the birthday of Osiris, thus the Death and Resurrection was first celebrated on Easter thus being Osiris before Jesus Christ, case being, Christ = Osiris
Christmas is not a rip off of another religious holiday--the pope wanted to eradicate the pagan day (what ever it celebrated) by announcing that Christmas had to be celebrated on Dec. 25.
Lybrah I researched this many times over and discovered that Christmas was first Celebrated by Pagans in celebration of the birth of Osiris, thus in which Christian Christ is copied from that very same god, so I am right thus I have proof that I am!
No, you are wrong and I making a new question about it.
Lybrah http://www.facebook.com/theholydivinityministry and two of my Hubs have all the proof plus the fact that you say a Pagan is wrong of knowing his own Holidays is quite amusing seeing that I have all the proof to back up my claim!
I do hope you have proof that proves Pastor is wrong, Lybrah.
Just go to this site that has all religions and beliefs and find out for yourselves: http://www.religioustolerance.org/
Can Pastor prove he is right? That his information is legit? How do you know?
Lybrah Considering that I am not the only one that did his homework, lol Oh I bet my life on it child!
Lybrah, there is this magical thing that can give you any and all information you could ever possibly want at any given time of the day.
Its called Google. Hell, its called history but I figured I should start simple.
Considering nearly every ancient civilization had one festival or another at the time of the winter solstice and the spring equinox, we're wasting our time straining for nats here. True religion is about a spiritual conversion, not a vague argument.
It is the Arguments TL that bring light within the spiritual fight, this undoing the wrong and finally making it right! While Christianity points fingers to the fake existence of a Satan, others are seeing their true colors. Truth wins over lies!
No my friend, only true spiritual experiences can bring spiritual light. I do not believe light can come from darkness, and contention and hatred is darkness.
Expanding our horizons a bit here. Light and darkness cannot exist without each other, so how can one not emerge from the other? A very bleak outlook on things, especially from what I assume to be a spiritual person.
darkness can give way to light, just as the night gives way to the dawn.
TL Flanigan do you think that it was just for the earlier Christians to kill our earlier Pagans, destroy their texts and all their temples and take possession over their land, their traditions and their symbols along with the stories and use them?
Pastor Wolfe, purity received from God has often, in history, been twisted to justify the evil and dark side of humanity. EVERY RELIGION has had militants who shout "Glory to God" before doing just the opposite.
That doesn't answer my question TL! Do you think that it was just for the Earlier Christians to Kill the earlier Pagans and use their symbols, land and their gods as their own?
"You have heard me called by many names but there is only one true name that stands out from the rest, the name of Christ and that Christ is you! Believe in yourselves and walk the path as did Osiris/Jesus/Yeshua had walked and you too will be seen a
Is Christ proof of God?
We are our own Christ and Savior for with our teachings alone helps people look up to us thus giving them examples of righteous living! Jesus is based on myth but yet is a very inspirational fantasy story that teaches good morals!
Thank You Pastor Wolfe!!!
You are welcome Lady Guinevere, and to finish the cut off, I said you too can be seen as a Savior, as a Christ/Messiah!
Exactly Pastor Wolfe and Jesus stated the same thing in that Bible.
think--You provide no proof here, not even a theory. You make a statement and call it a truth. If all things need a creator who created the creator. Sophomoric but applicable.
@thinkocrate and cjhunsinger. Interesting exchange of views. :)
Instead of giving me problems hunsinger, why don't you give solutions. As evident above, the thought requires circular logic. For one to exist, one had to be given existence, and there had to be a force greater than us to cause creation/evolution.
think--I do not give you problems, they are of your making. I simply ask for validation of your claims. The big bang happened. The universe exists. and evolution is a fact and gods are assertions of a belief.
Hunsinger, then why did they happen if there was no first mover?
think--quantum mechanics is now beginning to explain how something can come from nothing or that nothing cannot truly exist. Easy to research. I cannot truly say gods do not exist, but it is unreasonable to think so.
Interesting, I do not, nor claim to know anything concerning quantum mechanics or physics. However, my premonition of a God is not like a Zeus or Apollo, or the essence of a Godlike persona, one because he would not know he is a God.
think--If that is what one needs to feel secure, it is good. But then let us call it a belief or a premonition and not a fact or a truth, as that is where the problems begin. We exist, a fact, let us deal with that.
God + Mother Nature created the world + each one of us, we're "still" in Mother Natures womb growing/learning how to become a human being built out of love not our ego..When we die if we really love life, + have followed the law of nature we're born
Pastor Wolfe, I can see you are very passionate about your feelings. But you may want to compare what you tell people to do and what you do yourself. In one post you say not to condemn people, and then in others you condemn a whole religion.
TL DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD WANT THEM TO DO UNTO YOU! Christianity for years condemned us Pagans along with Atheist and Gays, thus Justice must be made! Confess and Judgment will end with a guilty plea! I am simply doing what I was chosen to do!!
Thank you for proving my point. God bless
You had no point as I have said before TL judgment stops when ye confesses to the truth that Christianity is using Pagan based beliefs, symbols and gods, even the Holidays! Don't give me that God bless Bull spit for I know you have no real god!!
Once again, you have condemned me by your opinion right underneath where you say not to condemn others and to keep opinions to yourself. That my friend is my point.
When Christians stop condemning others then I shall do the same. See my point moron?
Have I condemned you? Some of the best soldiers that have had my back were pagans, and they represented their faith much better than you have.
TL I am doing what Osiris has chosen me to do. The record must be set straight about how Christianity came to be!
Romans took from Greeks and Greeks took from Egyptians and then we have enter the dark ages with the burning of the library in Alexandria. Muslims took from Christians and Christians took from Jews. So what? This is how the history of ideas works.
Thus being Randal, spiritual war far and the victims of Christianity and Judaism are fighting back! Only way peace is even possible is for all to stop pushing their beliefs because if Atheist wish not to believe then that is their choice and freedom!
I agree that nobody should be convincing another to believe what they believe. It is best kept private. Otherwise it become filled with anger and exclusion. I respect a person't right to their beliefs but prefer not to engage in judgement of anyone.
Pastor.... you hit the nail on the head. It is our right and our freedom that allows us to worship God in this country. Your beliefs would get you killed in some countries; as would mine.
Just wanted to point out, Christian beliefs are getting people killed in other countries, right now Christians are the most persecuted religion. But, can we please stop drawing lines hear, I believe we should all be in this together.
Thus agreeing to disagree and coexisting would be a world wide truce within all beliefs, in which no one is put to death for their own beliefs! Which means no judging anyone, I just want Christians to stop condemning Pagans seeing that they 2 r pagan
Pastor Wolfe, I hope one day Osiris, or whomever you choose to believe in, tells you to clasp hands with your fellow man and help end the cycle of violence and hatred. That should be all that matters. Goodbye and God bless.
TL like I said before, when Christians stop judging and admit to being apart of Paganism then I will agree, but I will not stand by and watch Christians judge, thus I by the power of my Gods will judge them and will only stop when they do!
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