I recently read an account of why God permits suffering in the Jehovah's Witnesses leaflet Watchtower and it totally failed to explain to me why the loving God who cares for his children, feeds the birds and clothes the lilies of the field allows the most innocent of his creatures to suffer so dreadfully. Image below - Public Domain - Wikimedia "Two battalions of Viet Cong systematically killed 252 civilians in a "vengeance" attack on the small hamlet of Dak Son. Tears are streaming down the face of little three-year-old Dieu Do, now homeless, and fatherless., 12/06/1967"
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AMEN my friend!
Yes, because the Guinea Worm, Brazilian Wandering Spider, and Box Jellyfish are human inventions. So are droughts, tsunamis, earthquakes, and firestorms. Yes, indeedy.
Build--As you make a decision based on free will, does this god not know the decision you will make, before you make it? What does all-knowing mean to you?
This answer is far from the best for one simple reason. It begins by quoting scripture that to some "thinking" people not brainwashed as a child totally disagree with. Ancient scriptures have no proof as to their authenticity.
Such a kind response, Marie. It would be nice to do some good - at least.
How can we make a better place for all? Let us start in West Africa and clean their polluted water along with the other unhealthy conditions. This is what caused the rise of Ebola in that region. Whatever became of the World Health Organization?
Because the world is not responding to "humanity issues" according to the Word of God, there will continue to be consequences! Thanks Jane for that comment!
I have over the yrs found understanding in books like " A Course in Miracles" [at first very difficult to grasp,& books of Neale Donald Walsch, -written in ordinary layman's language. You will find a lot of info on the net abt these if interest
This is the "blame god paradox" whereby those who blame god are admitting He must exist.
At the absolute level of awareness of spirituality, what you have stated indeed is true. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, a famous Hindu saint says that for one who has realized God there is nothing like free will. Everything is God's will.
This is the God of the Old Testament - the revenging God of the Jew, Yahweh or Jaldaboath. Just forget this whole Old Testament, for Jesus came to earth to show the way to the God that stands above the revenging Yahweh.
As I mentioned in the previous paragraph God is a concept which humans interpret with their own theories.
No, Buildrep Jesus came to fulfill the law not abolish it. He was the only one that could live by the law (in this fallen world). That is why He came, to give us a way to Heaven. The reason for evil is that we live in a fallen world.
Its called bad parenting. Happens quite a bit actually. Is gods definition of bad parenting diffetent from ours as well?
Very well said ComfortB. Man's ways are not God's ways and the answer to all questions can be found in the Bible, but I wouldn't recommend consulting a cult like the Jehovah Witnesses for wisdom. Just search"Jehovah Witness cult" and you will see.
Great answer comfort. @Link how is it bad parenting if the parent does all they could and the child still does that? In some cases agree that it is bad parenting but not all cases
Comfort: Great parenting! Once exposed, children make choice, as we do today-called "free will!" Making wrong "choice" = consequences as with us today! God loves us as we do our children, but we will suffer consequences from our actions!
Perhaps the Jehovahs Witnesses were right - if we can believe in God we can at least make some sort of sense of the suffering and if not then we have someone to share the suffering with. Maybe the suffering comes first and God comes from that?
If that's the case, then he's all yours...
God is a concept created by us humans. I feel that some rich and powerful corporations have exploited humankind and our planet's resources.
@Les I think you hit it. Without sufffering we would have no need for God
Omnipresent is How I see our Father Creator and GOD. GOD is the very fabric of Space and Time but until a freewill being chooses the Knowledge is or can not be Known even of by GOD the fact is GOD knows IT before You act upon It and can stop it
Thats really good. What good, though, is a god if he/she or it is not all-knowing? But then you say god does know it. A bit confusing, no?
GOD lives in HIS ever present NOW there is no Past or Future for GOD He Knows Our future for It is HIS present Hence The Knowing comes into play. Until we choose there is no present for GOD to Know we are in a state of flux or vibration out of sync
By far the best answer in my opinion!
What bad decisions did this child make to warrant his punishment?
So if a serial killer barged into your home, slaughtered your family, and maimed you for life, on some level that would be perfect because it was a circumstance you somehow Created?
Or did i not understand your comment?
'Reap as you sow' - a nice idea, but is the triumph of hope over experience (to misquote Samuel Johnson). Life is quite, quite random. Wish, by all means, for good luck and fortune, but don't pray for it. You can get locked up for talking to yourself
Evil also exists on its own in the form of "Original Sin".
Galatians 6:8 for those that "believe" in Scripture!
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sounds like another ACIM devotee here. I took up the book many years ago, and it is always near me. When I give it time - to read and reflect, I very often experience peace and contentment.
Karma is the only scientific explanation for unknown causes of suffering. Cause and Effect.
Because you are a mere "human being" created by God.
Job went had somemotions in his fight against Satan in the Bible. Which is a good place to get this question answered. As you see Satan coming to the throne of God after looking whom he may devour (my interpretation). God asks him if he noticed Job.
Why does god intervene with "miracles" then? Or do you personally not believe it is divine intervention?
Link.... I would think as an atheist/agnostic that you would not believe in miracles?
So why is it that when humans do something good, they thank God, or people say "God gave that person the ability to _____." But when it's something bad, it's just humans being terrible by their own choice. Not giving ourselves much credit, are we?
If you have so many questions why don't you just read the Bible. You could learn much more than I can write with only so many characters.
I have read the Bible. I'm asking you a question based on an attitude that I see a lot. If you don't have answer, that's fine. :)
Aime. this is something that you cannot wrap your mind around because you do not believe. If you were a believer you would already know what the answer is because it would be found in your heart. Giving all glory to God is being faithful to our creat
That's kind of why I put it in quotations JT. Do you have an answer for either of my questions at all?
God intervened, and drowned Pharaohs entire army, yet you still use that free will scam to explain away this folly. Could you explain why God could suspend free will and intervene in ancient times, but cant intervene now?
Because of Moses perhaps. getitrite.. it seems that you have heard stories of the Bible without really following it up for yourself. Read these chapters and you will learn what you seek. God has performed many miracles for his people in the OT. Jews.
Yep...God performed many miracles back then, right in the presence of many "eyewitnesses" but not one single miracle since the invention of the video. Ever wonder why that is?
getitrite... God has performed many miracles in people's lives that are not even documented. Jesus Christ performed many miracles that are documented in the NT. Again read it for yourself instead of listening to others.
JT, Please stop misrepresenting me as some uninformed novice. I was "saved" at the age of 10. Father was a minister. Went to Sunday all throughout my youth. I have read the OT & NT. This is a blatant straw man fallacy. I prefer honesty. Thanks.
I thought you said you were christened/baptized as a baby? What denomination were you?
JT, No I was not baptized as a baby. Infant baptism is not a customary Pentecostal practice. In the Pentecostal faith, the stages are:
Receiving the Holy Ghost/Baptism By Fire
...I LOVED Jesus so much. Really. I did!
Why the conversion getitrite?
I was taught that conversion meant turning away from a sinful life, and accepting Jesus into your life, because its your conversion from a life of sin to a life dedicated to serving God, thru His son, Jesus Christ.
Being a Pentecostal I'm sure you were also taught that you could never do enough to please God or assure that you would go to Heaven based on works and salvation rather than just salvation. They follow more of what the Church says rather than God.
Actually the Pentecostal faith is just as valid as any other denomination. Its a matter of interpretation. Every denomination actually follows the interpretation of the elders. The bible makes no sense anyway, so no one can actually follow it.
The problem with "religion" is certain ways of living are passed down from generation to generation. Even if these ways are not biblical i.e. women wearing dresses. This is why we must be spiritual and read the Bible for ourselves to learn it properl
He understands the Bible well enough to know that he wants to reject its redemptive message. The best help one can get would be from the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 2.14 It is the Holy spirit who enables believers to *welcome* the things of the Spirit of God.
Please revise the "blame god paradox" whereby blaming god for misfortune implies god exists. Remember?
Not sure why a whole conversation was skipped to address my one comment, but where was I blaming god Oz? People attribute good things to god, so is it not a logical question to ask why no one attributes the bad to him? Dont start deflecting now.
Apparently it is impossible either by math or logic or reasoning to get away from the "blame god paradox" which is a proof of god in itself. I understand your embarassment at constantly making the same error. Its like struggling in quicksand
Of course the only thing you do is deflect, should have known better.
Coming from someone who repeatedly makes the mistake in assuming atheists are pushing for infantcide and bestiality to be legal, cant really take that seriously.
Unless you have sp
Why did he give is free will? Why did he bother creating us in the first place, come to that? Was he bored or something?
Doesn't wash; doesn't compute and never bloody did.
It does not compute because you do not want it to. But, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They just have to live and die with it.
But I can understand the need to make sense of chaos, to have someone out in the darkness watching over us, to be there when we feel lonely and to go to after all the suffering...
The ancient people had no scientific answers to explain nature and human behavior.
The answer to all your questions are in the Bible, our miniscule brief time on earth is not even significant compared to eternity which God promises all believers. A life of suffering is well worth the reward. The apostles didn't have it easy.
I fully agree. Amen, brother.
"We have to believe in justice and retribution in this world, on this earth" but not believe in God? Where do you think those concepts come from? The whole reason for the existence of evil is rejection of God from whom morality originates.
Have you ever seen a seven year old child buried up to her neck in a mud slide and is about to die many days later from pestilence and dehydration?
If you have and still insist god loves us I would be forced to classify your reasoning as insane...
See many Horrific scenes n do not hold Our Father accountable for a single 1 Because of HIS love we are still Here still growing n learning 2 trust HIM n not the god of our world. There R 2 One is n one claims 2 be do you not understand why U r Here
What you claim Sinbad doesn't make sense. Sure we are still here, the ones that are STILL ALIVE that is...
Known that None of Us has yet died in GOD's Kingdom Only the Illusion of Death no matter how real has occurred. This Illusion has been greatly multiply by the god of this earth Satan. We are here to figure this Out who shall we follow Satan or GOD
Stick to one point. How can you justify the torture of that one 7 year old girl. There is no Satin. He's simple a invention designed to scare the pants out of you believers and fill in where religious doctrine can't be explained. Works doesn't it?
True Believers believe in Satan they Must if they understand Why we are here as we are here. The Little Girl has nothing to do with Us or is she Dead Spiritually All flesh dies for we were never design as Flesh beings but Spiritual Bodies uncorptabl
I give up. It's like your from another planet. I'll leave with this; I can prove just about anything I say way beyond any reasonable doubt. I challenge you to scientifically prove absolutely ANYTHING religious you believe in.
An GOD said Let there be Light GOD Created the Moon the Sun and The Stars GOD Placed a Bow in the Sky after every heavy rain to remind Us of His Promise. The Season Have not Cease or will they Until HIS return The abundance of Life andthe variety of
I respectfully suggest you see a cult deprogrammer...
I'll go as far to say that the BIG Bang Theory is also in the Good Book. We believers call it "the Fall" or the "Katabole" Heaven United and Then divided by war. Tiny weeny living space infinitesimal amounts of Power and stuff now spewed about Space!
Craig, you don't understand,those little children who suffer and die wind up in heaven for eternity "He will wipe every tear from their eyes.There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain..." Rev 21:4