This appeared in a forum post recently: "They are led to stand before the doorstep of a dark room ~ and encouraged to discover if there is any light-switch ('God') inside it. The only way to find out ~ is to enter the light-less room, and physically search for the switch on the wall (using one's arms)." Believers say that in order to find god, you have to walk into the room and believe that there's a light switch before you can find it for yourself. In other words you have to believe and "faith" evidence into existence. Why is it so hard to simply show the "light switch" to a non-believer?
sort by best latest
Seek N you Shall Find Knock N the door is answered for there is always somebody Home in GOD's House Yes Prime the pump which is your Heart in which your soul lives Invite the Comforter In N the teachings will begin Factual beliefs of a difrent world
Very insightful answer, Thomas. Believers see what they WANT to see. If they want to believe that a god holds their destiny, then they will find "evidence" in everything around them. But there are some of us who require actual evidence.
The switch is but the means 2 the end Clap/clap off soon these old devices will B out dated but the Electricity will not B GOD is liken unto IT powers the Light Blind people navigate very well only after they have felt out the room in which they Rin
Could it be argued that the person who relies on the light is experiencing less? The blind man tests everything and learns from it. The man with the light just accepts what is in front of him.
A non believer does not want to believe and has a strong stand on it.
It's not that they don't want to believe, I'm sure they would rather believe, they just haven't seen the light.
Many nonbelievers do not believe because there is no solid proof. Show them real, verifiable, repeatable proof and you might have someone who believes. I say "might" because the god in question would have to be worthy enough to follow.
I would agree, but if there was a light switch in a dark room, and you wanted someone to find it, why would you not walk them to it, rather than Insisting that they believe it's there before it can be found? It seems backwards.
And why use analogies in the first place. If the light switch is there, why can't it be found? If it isn't there, no amount of belief will make it appear.
Maybe the person is looking in the wrong place? For instance, would one hope to find a light switch near the floor, on the ceiling or on a wall at shoulder height?
Faith is not blind. It is "the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen.” — Hebrews 11:1. http://bit.ly/135BKl7
THANK YOU, TOTALLY AGREE!
Lol Joseph! Faith is necessarily blind, or it wouldn't be faith! If you CAN SEE something, no faith is required. If there's no evidence of something, then you have a blind belief. Wow. You can't see the forest for the trees.
Take for instance our sun. It appears revolve around the earth— soaring in the east , rolling through the skies , and afterwards setting in the west . Nevertheless , proof from astronomy together with math makes clear that the earth is ...
Joseph, If one needs to "see" or have "proof" in order to believe something they lacks faith! Faith means never having to ask "How?" It's supposed to be a (knowing) things will be fine despite contrary appearances. Faith is one step beyond hope..
That's the point. Atheists don't believe in a god because they cannot quantifiably prove the god's existence. What you take on faith, they need proof. Empirical, repeatable proof. If you can't prove it exists, there's a huge chance it doesn't.
What do you mean by "real evidence?" Are you perhaps alluding specifically to scientific evidence?
God is scary. Knowing god exists is scary. And when you experience it. You don't doubt. Doubt and questioning itself takes you further away from the truth. People who would demand proof in anger and attitude are angry themselves and frustrated at the
I will never understand the mentality of worshiping something that scares you into doing it. Even when I was a believer, I wasn't scared of god.
that's what I mean..that's questioning. When the fear comes not from mind but from spirit. It is different fear. Different feeling. God is love but still a holy entity. You can not fast at the top of a mountain but converse over a bowl of ice cream
Rae-Leigh you said, "Knowing god exists is scary". I think for believers it would be just the opposite! It's what allows them to endure the harsh waves of life, that there is a reason (why) things are as they are. Believers should feel assured.
every individual is different..a holy experience IS scary. I had one, I speak for myself. I could lie, but why would I.
I would never seek anything that was supposed to be good with fear or trembling. Fear isn't love, and following something out of fear isn't faith - it's extortion.
If you love some one or some thing Fear is always involved for you fear the loss of that which you love, trembling because old age causes trembling. Yes Fear in the Good book is often translated incorrectly. Endurance is what you give or seek to find
I love my spouse, I love my friends, I do not have any fear in my love. We all die. Fearing it doesn't keep it from happening, so I enjoy the time I have. Your premise is then unsound. If mistranslation then why initially use it?
I use it because we live in a world of lies N It is ruled over by a murder I don't fear death 4 I know who he is But I have lost many who are dead but alive. GOD is life itself so yes I fear the loss of GOD 4 the Good Book is full of truth N of lies
It's well and good to say that, and I respect your choice of belief, but believing they are true doesn't make them true. Saying it doesn't show that light switch any more than just saying it's there. I'm sorry, but I don't believe it.
You were a Non believer from the start I could lead you 2 the switch but I can't make you throw It or even touch it you have deemed yourself not 2 from the start your unwillness 2 believe or walk by faith is your use of freewill Not 2 repent 2 truth
It's funny you think you know me. You don't, and you just proved it. There's really nothing more that I need to say to you, since you think you know me already and made absurdly false assumptions.
"As an atheist, I like asking questions and understanding what people believe and why. I think these conversations are instrumental in I'm not afraid to ask questions recognizing our similarities and our differences as a species"~ Julie McFarland
You read my profile. So what? Did it say I was always an atheist as you assumed? I think not. You made three posts saying it was true. I didn't buy it, then you started in with the assumptions and attempted barbs. Is that all it takes?
I don't buy It I believe you N others R here seekN 2 destroy all N any beliefs that R not about your GOD of Unbelief who I believe 2 be Death N the destroyer as well as the Father of all lies We must believe 2 our end 2 have true faith or a switch
How can asking questions destroy anything? Only weak beliefs cannot tolerate being questioned. Now that your true colors and position has been revealed, however, there is no point continuing. Believing something does not make it true, however.
Many New Believer haven't the staying Power they need in these end times N those who seem 2 be asking are often entrapping 4, 1 reason or another It will be 2 their hurt on judgment Day when the GOD of Unbelief is revealed 2 Nonbelievers jilted hurt
1. I wasn't a new believer. 2. Comparing people to or saying they're being influenced by Satan doesn't help your case. 3. That's of judgement day or he'll is simple speak to emotion and it's fallacious.
Of course you went None of us are because we all fell Satan is not the only influence he has many minions N now atheist R included in this group of antiChrists/ anti GOD. Your ? was a snare or trap for those on the edge of salvation or destruction
It was a legitimate question. I'm sorry you don't like it or the additional discussion, but no one is forcing you to participate. Your repeated assertions are just that - assertions. That doesn't make them true either, sorry. Why so angry?
Even if atheists took you in the room and physically showed you that there was NO lightswitch, you would still not believe it. You would just keep insisting that Satan was hiding it. If you want to believe in dark empty rooms, that is your right.
While it's amusing, sinbad, that you think you know my intentions or motivations better than I do, it's not exactly polite. All I'm doing is asking questions. No need to be defensive or upset.
A child walks onto the ice believes that it is safe and then suddenly falls through the looking Glass Wow I am defensive and anger? I must be a horrible Man of Christ Or the Un believer wishes not to Believe the switch That I have shown them turns on
Sinbad, I'm not sure how you're perceiving this conversation, but no one appears to be upset but you.I'm just asking questions, you're calling people closed minded an making assumptions & linking them w/ Satan. There's no need for that.
I would never seek anything that was supposed to be good with fear or trembling. Fear isn't love, and following something out of fear isn't faith - it's extortion~ JMcFarland I would Never Seek anything that was SUPPOSED to be good GOD Is GOOD U Dnt
Yes, you copied and pasted, just like you did with my profile. What is that supposed to demonstrate? That I was rude to you? It doesn't. It has nothing to do with you, but addresses what you originally said. Do you see the difference?
there R those who R blinded by GOD N given a gift of slumber 4 sure you can see why A believer cant lead a non believer or vis a versa to the water of Life they R destroyed because of lack of knowledge truth you hold is a false reality I don't hold 2
I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say. English, please.
We are Miles apart but in the same room your Non belief cancels my ability to show you anything where as my belief does this to you we have nothing to offer each other I am not buying what you R selling and U R not Buying either stalemate.
Why is it reasonable to expect someone to believe what you're saying prior to you being able to show it to them? That's backwards. Can you think of any other situation where that would be true?
dont require you 2 believe/ disbelieve anything air is free even though for centuries we could not or can we still not see it But remove It or replace It N Death occurs The invisible will be seen one day in the twinkling of N eye The very Air breathe
You said that my non belief cancels your ability to show me anything. Now you seem to be taking that back and asserting that I'm somehow trying to sell you something. I do not understand what you're talking about.
Extortion at it's best...
What is the name of book from 1982?
Autobiography of a Western Yogi, by Swami Kriyananda. I write books also. You can see both books on amazon.com. Mine is called: My Guru, Sri Chinmoy: Life And Teachings. Thanks for asking. I am here. email@example.com
Just want to set the believers to reality
are you not taking into account the many, many of us who WERE believers at one time, or the innumerable people who have genuinely searched and found absolute silence in response?
Well, sometimes it feels like a person writes something just for you. That's good writing. Thank you for replying.
But the Bible is the claim, not the evidence of that claim. Something cannot be the claim and the evidence of the claim at the same time. For example, if I say "aliens exist", the statement that aliens exist is not evidence that they do.
"Believe' then you will see evidence of the claim!
No, that's backwards. The time for belief is after being shown evidence. Otherwise, you're just guilty of confirmation bias.
No "faith?" Won't work! You will never receive benefits!
I'm not interested in benefits. By your logic, you could decide one morning to believe in unicorns and then stumble on a stick and use it as evidence that a unicorn dropped it there. That logic is absurd.
Not interested in Benefits? What can I say but I'm sorry! What if the Bible is right as you claim it not to be? You loose nothing in this life, but will gain benefits!
That's called Pascal's Wager - its an emotional appeal used when there is no evidence. There's a 50/50 chance there's a god. There's a .01654384 chance that YOUR god is the right god out of all proposed gods. Those aren't great odds.
JMc: No "FAITH!" Sorry!
If the definition of faith is believing something without evidence, do you use it for anything else except religion? Do you have faith in gravity? Do you you have faith in health, or do you rely on evidence based treatment options?
Yes, I have "faith" in WHATEVER is written in the Word of God! Isiah 48:13! Healing, yes!
I understand that you do. I'm asking you why. Why did you decide that "faith" but not evidence was appropriate for religion, but not in any other aspect of your life. Why this religion, and not any of the hundreds of others?
Because I "Believe" with all of my heart and have "faith" in the Word of God "supernatural" things occur in my life that have "never" occurred before (BENEFITS!) 1 Ex: I laid hands on a person once in a revival and the "power" of God overtook him.
That didn't answer the question at all.
Except it's comparing apples to oranges. We have no example of food preparing itself, but there's no evidence beyond assertion that the earth was created by an invisible, undetectable deity that can't be produced. You can produce a chef.
JMc: You can also produce evidence of things if you "believe" such as raising people from the dead! Read Jn 14:12, which says that we would do "...GREATER THINGS.." than Jesus! BENEFITS!!!
No, you cannot produce evidence evidence of raising someone from the dead. What are you talking about? Show me proof of your miracles, then.
3 answers hidden due to negative feedback. Show
3 answers hidden due to negative feedback. Hide