Firstly Yes, I am a christian and a very passionate one at that. I don't want to cause any stir with this question but I only seek new responses that I myself may not already know.. You see I was asked this question Last week on my campus and was then involved in a long tiring discussion leading into the night. And if you're wondering, I defended god pretty good! But after all that, it lead me to wonder what other persons Christians or non-Christians thought about this topic. Maybe I or someone else could learn some new knowledge about the truth. I hope this question isn't out of place.
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That's a really good answer Dawn...I Like how you are able to identify that you are a christian but at the same time abide in safe net . Decent :). I like that as Christians we don't shy away from the tackling questions but can defend our faith. Thks
Thank you Dwight. :) I grew up "Southern Baptist ". I never like to be labeled anything but the definition of "Christian " is more of who I am than any denomination. I was taught to witness to people, but witnessing has always been hard for me to do.
Cool.............Did you know that baptist songs from the USA play a huge role in almost every denomination in Jamaica. A lot of their songs are either re-written so much so that I used to think that these songs came from Jamaica when I was a boy.
Hi again Dwight,
I did not know that about the baptist songs! That is really cool and interesting! :)
Thank you for you're comment dashingscorpio. Glad you could stop by.A few questions your way. Why is there a BC globally and not something else. Why when people swear or die they're quick to call on Jesus. Stand for something or fall for everything.
The term BC & AD are designations are numbered years used with the Julian and Gregorian calendars. The Roman Empire influence. Dionysius Exiguus had a desire to replace Diocletian years with a calendar based on the incarnation of Christ in 525.
Thank you again dashingscorpio, especially for verifying the facts. Now, for there to be a BC or AD Isn't that a proof of life of christian core characters and values. What do you think existed -50 to +50 years around the BC era?
I'm sorry, you're saying that because a Catholic monk set up a calendar around what he believed to be the time of Jesus, there must have therefore been a time of Jesus? That's a logical fallacy. Now, incidentally, it's CE & BCE.
Dwight, There is a whole slew of history regarding the various calendars including the Mayan calendar. Lots of folks believe A.D. stands for "after death" of Christ. It really stands for the Anno Domini dating system. Calendars prove nothing.
Thanks for your comment Julie McFarland. And no, I'm not basing my entire argument on just that unproven fact. But it does add to the puzzle. You see what you don't know can sometimes be evidence. Can you tell me 100% if Christ existed then.
No, it is not 100% proven that a historical jesus existed as a single person in first century Judea. What you do not know cannot be used as evidence, that's the argument from ignorance (fallacy) or the god of the gaps (another fallacy)
How closely have you studied science? Reading as a layman, or are you a physicist?
Well I Am an Engineer, sooooooo I'd land myself somewhere in between.
Ah. .. I see. I've had experience with engineer apologists. Have a good one.
Thank you so much for stopping by Julie McFarland.....It was nice talking to you.... I hope I'll soon stumble into you once again on hubpages :)
I'm sure you might.
Dwight it appears you've had a change of heart. In your new question asking how can you "prove" anything, you said:
"My conclusion is that NOTHING is really factual or true. NOTHING can be completely proven".
I assume that includes religion too
I'm glad that you came back over....and (LOL) no i haven't had a change of heart at all! I knew that some of you might have thought so..But in fact the reason why i asked that question is quite the opposite because it tramples the atheist's logic.
Atheist say you can't prove there is a God and therefore they don't believe. Christians however frustrated usually will attempt to prove there is. As you stated nothing can be proven! That's why it's pointless for them to argue. Live and let live
My friend, my friend....you continue to not see what's being said. Christians shouldn't want to prove god, because it's about faith (anti-proof). It's atheist that want's the proof. Go back to the question how do you prove anything.
hallelujah Sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're speaking my language :) You sound like someone who is filled. Where have you been all my life....umm I meant for the duration of this question :)
Hi it's nice to see you Yoleen...You know i weep because of the fact that people are being deterred from Christianity because of the negative groups and individuals professing god (past and present). I beg you to try him for yourself PLEASE :).
Dwight - tx for your concern. I DID try Him for myself. I was also in a cult, putting my life in danger. Because Christ didn't make me a new creature, I couldn't save my niece from joining a cult. I don't believe Christianity is right for everyone.
That's sad to hear my friend. But you're are right....Christ isn't for everyone (M't:22:14:) even though he wishes for all to be saved. (2Pe:3:9). From what i understand you had a bad experience that shaped your beliefs. Get back up brush off yourslf
Dwight - you may want to check out the series I wrote on the 10 most practiced religions. Here's the link: https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/What-Take...
It's my attempt to get back up.
Wow Yoleen...very detailed and factual. But then again you're just stating most of what is already known dabbled with a few of your perceptions. I felt like i just asked you who you are; you choosing to describe all your organs and their functions.
Yes, I described those religions from an objective point of view. I have written 3 other hubs describing other religions; the link to each next one is at the bottom. Since Christ didn't make me a new creature, I'm exploring other avenues.
I can see you're a good person Yoleen and i like how you have a thirst for knowledge and the truth....that is a good thing :)The major difference between me and you would be my strong spiritual back ground and experiences. good luck getting back up:)
Dwight, I'm curious. You keep telling people to try Jesus for themselves, not knowing anything about them, or whether or not they have. Have you tried Allah for yourself? How about Buddah or Thor? how else would you determine truth?
I'm glad you asked Julie. Ever since I was a boy in many religious debates, including my physics teacher all told me try other religions.That's why i asked this question! I want to learn more than what I already know to become a better minister :)
Do you not think it's arrogant to think that people who do not believe in your version never tried it? Or to tell them to "just try it" without reason to, when you haven't tried any of the others out there?
I have a knowledge of other religions but I want more. Mind you...I've been in a lot of debates throughout my life and still I can't see why not to choose god. There is more to Christianity than just a book and ordinances. We need to accept god wholy
Knowing about other religions in a debate setting is hardly trying them for yourself, as you are encouraging others to do with yours. Why not to choose god? Perhaps because none of them are proven to be true? That seems like a great reason.
Ahh.... I'm glad you said. You're looking for proof my friend and that's where you'll surely fail! Christianity is not about proof in fact it'st the complete opposite; it's faith Heb:11:1:. wish we could talk face to face writtenwords are so limited.
Could you have faith that gravity didn't work and then fly? Why is faith a good reason to hedge your bets on a god, but not in any other area of your life?
That's a fallacy my friend "a false analogy" you're comparing something fictitious and imaginary to a completely documented historical and well debated concept for centuries that merely requires a small leap of faith to complete the deal.
Regardless, do you use faith to make any other decisions in your life, absent evidence? Can you give an example? Why have faith in your God, but not in any others? Are you admitting you have no evidence for god?
Faith is not evidence of anything except faith. When you go into work, do you rely on faith to perform engineering, or do you rely on facts, evidence and science? Why do you think that is? Faith is belief without good reason.
You speak with a lot of fallacies and self defining terms my friend :) Non sequitur. But nonetheless Julie you should know that everybody has a little faith in them even you. don't you try to first believe that you'll do a good job before you do it?
Okay, which statement was a non sequitur, and why assume they all have to logically follow each other rather than stand on their own as individual points? I believe I can do a god job because my track record shows that I can, and do. no faith.
"Faith is not evidence of anything except faith" A conclusion without sound facts. You said "(believe).....good job" belief and faith are kin Julie. definition-"accept that (something) is true, especially without proof" no one can 100% prove anythg
You're confusing faith with confidence and trust, and that's what my belief is made up of. You brought up doubting Thomas. When he asked for evidence, did he get it? According to the story, yes. So what's wrong with wanting evidence?
Like I said Julie in my previous comments. Atheist can't accept faith because it is ant-proof. which really makes this a cyclical non-ending argument. YOU CAN'T PROVE FAITH :)You can't tell me what evidence you're looking. Isn't there even one to see
Let's try this a different way. If god desires all to be saved, why don't you pray and ask him what will convince me and then answer with that. your God, if true, surely knows. should I just make something up that would convince me?
Who looks worse. Wondering in the dessert for evidence of a castle or staying home with faith to believe for a castle. You know the fact that you can't tell me what evidence your looking for also means you have no evidence that god isn't real.
Shifting the burden of proof is just a glaring admission that you can't/won't do it. I'm not claiming that no gods exist. You're claiming that a specific god exists. I don't accept your claim. demonstrate it's true. The onus is on you.
Not bad Julie i like that :) so at least we've made some progress so we know that there is a god. but............mhhh.....which god to choose right? I want ensure that i'm interpreting the correct thing..so you do believe in (a god)?
You misunderstand. No progress has been made. My atheism is and always has been a lack of belief in any gods. I do not assert that there are no gods. That is strong atheism, and it's incredibly rare. a lack of belief is far more common.
Umm julie you do realize that you're kinda contradicting yourself in your last 2 comments right? First you said-
"I'm not claiming that no gods exist"
Then you said-"My atheism is and always has been a lack of belief in any gods"
You understand, don't you, that not believing in something is not believing in the opposite? Atheism is the lack of belief in Gods, not necessarily the belief that no gods exist. There are spectrums of belief and non belief, this is pretty basic
are you sure that you said this right?"not believing in something is (not) believing in the opposite" shouldn't it be believing in the opposite. the enemy of my enemy is my friend. however i'm glad to know that you've some microscopic belief in god(s
You're putting words in my mouth. Since you don't seem to be understanding, I'll make a comparison. not believing in aliens doesn't mean that I positively believe that no aliens exist. I do not have a belief in any God. The null position.
Continuing from above....me along. I've had enough spiritual experiences for myself and as a group of people. when i was younger I used to wonder about those who aren't as privileged as me. I've seen and taken part in most of the 9 gifts.
That has nothing to do with the continuing conversation. You saying you've had most of the 9 gifts sure may make you feel special or superior, but saying it doesn't mean anything. you've refused to demonstrate a simple request. Why?
Sorry I did not see your comment until now. Thank you for the correction on the longevity of the religions. I read a while back that Christianity had been around longest. Thanks for correcting. -DawnM
Hi Julie...sorry I took so long to respond to your comment...We don't always have the internet in Jamaica....Plus I needed some time off from hubpage to get some work done...I'm not sure I remembered what your last comment was about."simple request"
Yoleen, I agree with you. I am not a religious person, but know that I treat others much better than most who claim to be religious that I have met. It saddens me how wars have been started in the name of "religion." I believe in empathy and nature.
High chelsea it's nice to see you again..I like the your hair :) I regret that many people judge the entire scope of religion off the bad apples. PEOPLE PLEASE NOTE---THERE ARE BAD CHRISTIANS!!
But then there are the good ones :)
Thanks, Dwight, you're sweet. You are correct. There are bad and good people in every walk of life and within every belief sector. That's why I hold true to empathy and nature. With that I cannot go wrong.
In error I thought you were from Nigeria, Dwight, sorry for that. Are you minister of a church there in Jamaica?
Ummm nope...I'm just passionate about god..But i don't have an office as yet :)
You seem to be passionate about your own self-esteem, being closer to god via your "faith" and talking down to those whom you think are less "fortunate" than yourself. Ego.... Christ-like? I don't think so. Only my opinion, of course.
Hi I'm glad you used words like "you seem" And "my opinion". If I've ever talked down to anyone I'm really sorry and i try to make that evident.And so I have to disagree with you there. I realize that you're mostly here for sarcastics and as a critic
I highly favor your response manatita44; very enlightening and true. You see ever since my younger days in high school I've always been battling between the softer loving and the intellectually rigid ministerial approach.
Thanks for your warm words.
No shame. Insight is noble. Work with what you have, accept without expectation and move on. Most significantly, continue daily prayers at quiet periods. Allow Grace in and you will be fine. Much Love.
God bless you manatita44 : )
Emporers of Commerce, Religion and Politics continue to derail our World today. Selfishness, greed and desire for control continue as singularly human traits.
God's Chosen? Most definitely not!
Excellent.... I enjoyed reading your answer. It was very informative. And I have to get my hands on that book too. I agree that Christianity has been diluted
Question though....from your tone I'm not sure if you saying you believe in the "past god"
I liked your response to the question "What is God?" Could you have done it in the "10 words or less"?
And can I ask you one more thing my friend...What would it take for you to believe in god....Describe to me what grand event must take place before you can play the character of one falling to her knees before Christ ?? What's the evidence you want?
Any evidence would be nice. Truthfully, it doesn't have to be a grand event. I don't know what would convince me, but if your God is true, it sure does - and doesnt seen the least bit ingested in doing it. I guess it doesn't want my salvation
You see Julie that's what I wanted to bring out. This constant talk of wanting evidence from atheists has for a long time seem like a hyperbolic version of doubting Thomas. the truth is if god stood in front of you,you still would ask for evidence.
How do you know? I care about truth, and if I'm going to believe something, I want to have confidence that it's actually true. How do you determine truth without evidence, and why believe something not proven to be true?
Julie that's the problem you see. Nothing can be 100% verified so there has to be faith. Nobody can prove that this all isn't a dream. If you tried that you'd be crazy. So we have to all have belief. faith is apart of everyday life.
Trust and confidence is not the same as blind faith in something. Is good capable of providing evidence? Yes. He doesn't. He demands faith, expecting us to ignore the way or brains work in every other aspect. Appeal to faith is absurd.
I like how you called god "he"....It seems that there's some history there :). I can see you have a difficulty accepting faith which just leads me to the same thing over and over again. Atheist can't accept faith because it denies logics 1Co:2:14
Being able to speak in Christian language is simply because I used to be one. Looking for deeper meaning there is silly. you're just saying I can't understand you because I don't have your magical spirit Being. That's silly, too.
you know Julie I realize that you keep asking for evidence and the truth is i used to ask when I was younger until god started showing up A LOT IN MY LIFE! My advise to you is to ask him to reveal himself to you. If you mean well he WILL ANSWER. :)
Appeal to emotion and personal experience? That's not convincing to me, and there's no reason for me to believe that you're telling the truth. How do you differentiate between perception and reality?
Ummm...I wasn't appealing to your emotions or trying to but if i did that's good to know.
Check this video out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKsnt8J_E6o
I hope you understand Jamaican patois.
And no laughing okay :)
Personal experience is emotion based and entirely subjective, doubt you think? How do you verify it? How do you test it? Without that, how do you believe it is external?
Are you saying that the billions of Christians are all self-experiencing the religion? cause I can definitely say otherwise....On the other hand did you enjoy and understand the video :) He was lost and had a lot of questions like you but found god.
Do you think that the thousands of Muslims, Hindus, etc. That have personal experiences that they attribute to their gods is equal proof that their gods exist? Is it not special pleading to say no?
Haven't you ever heard of Muslims converting to Christianity and what they had to say.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3lHueRXvh0
even the last video I sent to you; the man was a Rastafarian thought he had seen a vision telling him to serve sillasy.
Haven't you seen the videos of Christians converting to Islam? Does that make Islam more true? That argument works both ways, you know. Personal experiences are not solely exclusive to Christianity by a long shot.
Lol! Yes that's the cliche response to such a question. but there answers to all that....you're even proof, I mean how strong was your belief and dedication to god..did you have any real experiences with him and finally what caused you to leave?
My faith in God was probably as strong as you think yours is. But that didn't make it true. Any more than the faith of Jews, Muslims or Hindus makes their beliefs true.
You know the bible speaks of god's people being drawn away from the faith. But i have to tell you that you're faith was not anywhere where min is today. Like is said I'm a radical christian for Christ I've had all the evidence iIve needed to guide
Did you know me when I was a Christian? Were you in training to be come a missionary? Did you go to Bible college? How do you feel that you are in a position to judge my former faith just because I no longer have it? This is baseless assumption.
when you start having miraculous events taking place in your life day in and day out you can then understand where I am. When can start communicating to god on a hear and answer basis you'll have an idea. education has nothing to do with salvation.
And you know I didn't experience any of those things how? Because I no longer believe? That's incredibly arrogant, don't you think?
OK Julie if you did that's great....and if not then you're just playing with me.
Dwight, if the existence of "God" could be proven, then you would not need belief. You are free to continue believing whatever you choose. Neither you nor anyone else can "prove it." "Faith" is of your own making to suit your need.
Good day jonnycomelately I think that it is the complete opposite. You see if god could be proven then more people would believe however sad that would be; simply because there are many "doubting Thomas's"
Thanks for your comment Nyc.....and yes we must learn to try and have respect for everyone.....However even though I'm not handing out any objections, why do you believe that there is no right religion? Or were you just playing it safe?
Very nice Cynthia hoover :) ....Sorry I took so long to respond. This is exactly why I asked this question; to get the opinions from those who are both Christians and non-Christians...so i can learn something....I think i just did :)
I wish other religious people could be like you, Cynthia. Then the world would be a better place!
I like you Cynthia. We have the same thinking:) Yes, a (real/ good) Christian will not judge others. I believe also, but never look down on anyone if they don't believe as I do. Like Dwight, I am interested in others' thoughts and beliefs. --DawnM
"You've got me all wrong" quote from 'God's Message to the World' by Neale D Walsch. Whilst I cannot uphold the premise that Christianity is the best religion, I think your last two lines show that your view of the God may not be right either.
Oh, I think Maggie's view of a vengeful, jealous, spiteful, murdering god is definitely the very picture of the "Christian" god.
Have you read your bible, Marie? Even if you just take the New Testament writings only, you'll find a vengeful and petty god. The Old Testament is worse.
Hi Maggie, I could not insert my comment under yours. I do not follow the Bible teachings. Again I quote ""You've got me all wrong" quote from 'God's Message to the World' by Neale D Walsch. That is my Bible now.
Hi again my friends I find that the definition of a religion many times is stretched beyond what it should mean... 5000? Most of them aren't short of an "old wife fable" "bed time story" or "culturally flamed" which spreads through a social build.
Dwight -- I am offended that you consider my gods to be an "old wife fable" "bed time story" or "culturally flamed. " Educate yourself that there are people who do follow the old gods and who consider Xianity nothing more than a bedtime story.
Sorry maggie I'm just seeing your comment. I apologize if i truly offended you...But what I'm saying is true a lot of so called religions were just tales. In Jamaica for example there are a lot of spiritual stories which sometimes sparks panics.
No, Dwight, your religion is just made up tales. You have no real proof. This is why you think that other religions are hogwash. (Now, how did that make you feel? Angry? Good. That's what you do to other people when you discount their beliefs.)
My friend no religion has full proof in fact, nothing in this world has ultimate proof. there's just faith..and i'm used to conversations like this so it felt normal but again i apologize if I'm still out of line. In fact I'll stop if you want??
Surely "faith" has no substance. So there is nothing to prove/disprove.
But at least no one can disprove your theories, Dwight. You are safe there in your own little world.
Did you know that u contradicted the bible by saying that faith has no substance when the bible says that "faith is the substance of hope".But then again you claiming that I'm in my own world is opinionated,without any proof;soI cant take it seriosly
Dwight -- faith is nice; proof is better. Your religion isn't the "right" religion anymore than mine is. Your just happens to be the one that has half the world's followers. The other half are pretty sure you're wrong.
Maggie, Christianity does not have half the world as followers - more like one third. 2nd is Islam, 3rd is Hindu.
Suit your self, Dwight. You are in charge of your opinion, me of mine. The main difference is you take the bible seriously, I don't - nor you interpretation of it. Is that "faith" self-designed to suit your opinion?
Sounds like an Interesting question Johnny (can I call you that?), but I'm not really sure what your trying to ask and how that really steps on the bigger picture?
Lela -- I think I saw something on Wikipedia (yeah, it can be wrong) or something similar that said about half, when you count all the denominations. But that (and I) could be wrong. Regardless, it is not in the majority when you consider all others.
I was a Christian, and got a degree in theology with every intention of becoming a missionary. I have read the Bible in many languages. I could no longer believe it was true. The answer you described can be found in followers of every religion.
that's too bad.......you know they say that the most avid atheists were Christians. Whenever you start looking for too much logical proofs and allow yourself to be poisoned by babbling knowledge 2Tm2:16, U unknowingly are slipping away from "faith".
That's actually not what happened at all. I attempt not to make blanket accusations and assumptions about complete strangers, especially believers. You may want to try the same sometime. It might lead to a more productive, longer conversation.
Okay......cool. I'll However pray that you'll one day truly reconnect with him. If you've ever had any true experience with god VS knowledge, I hope you'll remember those and rekindle the fire.
If that God out of all proposed gods is real, I wouldn't want to - but thanks anyway.
"the natural man like your self just can't simply fathom the things that I've described above, in fact it says that you'll see them as foolishness." If true, why are you explaining it, and why was the Bible written as God's explanation of Himself?
".. looking for too much logical proof.." i.e.,stop using your brain. ".. to be poisoned by babbling knowledge.." Slipping away from "faith" is the only sensible way to go. IMHO
that is so true Chris, why am I trying to explain? But you see what i found over the years is that atheists still crave explanation even when you tell them that the bible says that they won't understand.
Wow I'm really getting some nice answers..Sorry it took me so long to respond....But nice answer. I can only hope that some of the non-believers on this site will take what you had said :)
I love your answer also, All4Jesus! I like when you say, "The bible says the only sin God cannot forgive is the close heart." I have not heard this before; but when I think about it, this makes sense. Thanks, DawnM
I noticed that our comments are being ignored here. Perhaps we have valid points?
He's adept at side-stepping around uncomfortable questions. If there's a chance he will be "caught out," then such questions will be ignored. This is how I see it, but might be mistaken.
Hi guys I'm sorry that i took so long to respond.You see I don't always have the internet in Jamaica :).... Anyways yes i'm not afraid of being an ambassador for Christ, even though I'm not the most righteous person. I still have much to work on :)
You may be right, he may be from Nigeria, LOL!
I see you guys are enjoying yourselves with this topic...I'm really glad for that. Hopefully you can have a change of heart and see the light. :)
No, you don't have valid points...keep flattering yourselves. Your comments are ignored because they are confrontational, and less than polite.
Thank you so much strgrrl it feels really good to have some one defend you. I realize that the same thing they are accusing me of they do ten folds. Guys I'm really sorry if I offended any of you but plz know that I'm just here to share Christ :)
Hey Chelsea it's nice to have you on the matter :) I like the new perspective you're bringing to the table.However what you're saying is all based off theories, and because we can't answer them doesn't mean religion is excluded. theyre only questions
Religion is based only on theories as well.
Interesting point Chelsea..But could you tell me one of those theories?
For one, the bible is only a book of stories. For those who say it is more than that, these are simply theories.
How do you know that they're all stories???
That sounds very enlightened, pleasure to read, Kd, Is that just your personal view, or do you feel your church promotes this as a general rule?
One of our apostles shared this idea in an address at the last general conf. that responded to the question, "Why do Mormons Share their Beliefs So Actively?" Quote is too long to paste: See 2:51-3:32 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBzKAFF4Sdc
Thank you again. I have looked at the video and make my choice to not accept the existence of god or the claims made about Jesus. I get the message that I am absolutely free to choose, without being judged by other humans for doing so.
You're spot on about not being judged. You'd like that church leader. He gave an address in a recent conference on respecting the agency of those who choose not to accept our message. :-) Thank you for being able to respectfully disagree.
Wow kbdressman....Thank you so much for your comment...I like the new variety of answers I'm getting. I really hope that somebody learns something from all this :) Yes we are free to choose jonnycomelatel its one of the golden Ideals of Christianity.
Interesting Mitchell. I applaud you for your facts. However you trying to demystify from the lexicon "religion" is kind of a fallacious argument. In fact it's Non sequitur. Even when the word didn't exist,the core ideals of religion did from creation
Interesting your viewpoint. Nice! (Nice is a one word comment with the meaning of speechless I use mostly with poetry, which I truly Love :-) I ponder your last statement lending toward truth speculatively being maybe a cause for creating the word.
Good Morning Tim Mitchell, it's nice to see you again :). thank you for your comment.
It beggars the question, what do you mean by pleasing God/Christ? If that pleasure is all about your perceptions of what is "right" or "wrong" according to your interpretation of scriptures, then your perceptions may very well be "wrong."
To jonnycomelately - It is the religious Christians that seem to choose ways that they say "please God". My view is that God does not need our feeble attempts and Christ is purely an example of goodness.
Ahhh interesting view Marie...Thanks for bringing more color to the topic :) I'm glad that you believe in Christ...I also implore you to seek him out fervently, wholeheartedly and truthfully, and in your search I pray that you find him completely.
Thanks for your comment Krzysztof; very thoughtful. I like where your coming from, and in away I myself believe that in the far future much of the fight over religions will fizzle out. I mean look at us now we can discuss it without a fight, right?
Hi Rachel. It's nice to know that your serving god. I which out non-believing friends on hubpages could understand what we are experiencing.
He speaks from Nigeria... a country with a very sad reputation for distorting the message of Spirit which christians claim was taught to them by an enlightened man called Jesus. Ugly "christianity," in my view.
ummm Hey guys..Just poking my head in here:) Lela everything you said Is well known already, but again it's just facts and in no way discredits Christianity..Like everything else religion evolves with time but god remains the same.
God is a man-made idea as well. Just because people believe a god exists doesn't mean it is true.
I thought he said he was Jamaican? A country even more brainwashed than those in Africa perhaps. The deal is that what he has been told all his life about Christianity isn't the truth. It's the same as the Santa Claus fantasy.
Wow isn't it also a stretch to believe that you can have over a billion brain washed Christians as opposed to a few millions of atheists. The way I see it it is more plausible to believe that atheists are brainwashed.
Christianity's membership is currently declining while atheism and agnosticism are experiencing a dramitic increase. Again, you are. believing in the equivalent of Santa Claus. There is no evidence to support god or santa
Not a "stretch" really, Dwight, when you consider it's the atheist mind that refuses to be brainwashed.
But you see the term brainwashed you use is totally opinionated, and just comes back to us not being able to tell who is brainwashed, which again is just another means for nobody actually being able to prove anything..Hence there is belief and faith
Awesome my friend :) thanks for your comment
Interesting view.....but I'm not completely sure i get what you're saying. are you saying that there are less ordinances/rules........less rituals and more grace?
I see that sort of teaching as the reason many people stop even trying to do the right thing. They lie, they steal, they exploit in greediness and selfishness... yet call themselves "saved." BS ! Just drop the religion and be real.
So, If I just say those magic words, "confess and believe in our hearts that Jesus Christ is the Son of God", we will all go to this ephemeral place called Heaven? Sweet!
Hey jonnycomelately I totally agree people use this teaching as a free pass to sin freely but it's not meant to be. The Apostle Paul addresses this in Romans 6 "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!
Dan, if you can really know what that man said, to whom, in what circumstances, then you will know he was not talking to you and me. When your christianity brings you into this century with relevance to me, then I will listen.
Thank you so much for your comment, I really appreciate. I like how you were able to give a less than a biased view.
Thumbs up good comment. :)
Lela confessing and believing in your heart aren't things you say to be forgiven but things you must do. Saying the words won't save you but believing it will. Also Heaven is not ephemeral I think you may be misusing this word. Thanks for the comment
I was being facetious, of course. I don't believe in your magic gods. But keep on believing if it helps you to be a decent human being.
Lela Don't U realize that the concept of god and his love is everywhere. Even the Judicial systems benefited largely from religion -In god we trust- Come on America! When you swear, I bet a time or 2 you called on Jesus;God is everywhere. No Escape!
The physical universe is everywhere. Your mythical sky daddy is nowhere to be found. There is no evidence for a god or gods. If you have evidence of a man-thing that lives in the clouds, please share it with us.
My friend again because there is no evidence of your liking for god. that doesn't mean that he isn't real. A lack of evidence isn't grounds for disapproval.
So you still believe in Santa Claus in spite of the lack of evidence that a big white guy can deliver presents to every good little boy and girl in the world in one night. No evidence for Santa exists.he's not real either. No evidence for god= no god
Lela I already told you that Santa clause is a bad example and in anyway most Jamaicans don't know who that is. But yes a lack of evidence isn't grounds for what you don't know. Haven't you heard of the god particles, dark matter and etc...
Dwight. You are boring me. Please continue your self delusion because it seems to make you happy. Just know that not everyone in the world is hoodwinked by your make believe god things.
Ummmm..actually the god particles and dark matter are scientific theories now being highly pursued. Sorry you didn't understand
I'm sorry YOU don't understand. Dark matter, and Higgs-Boson particles are all still part of the NATURAL universe. They are NOT "gods".
@Dwight "A lack of evidence isn't grounds for disapproval." If you sat in a courtroom, being tried, and the judge said this to you, would you be happy about it? Of course you would not. So how can your "faith" allow such a situation?
"Maybe I or someone else could learn some new knowledge about the truth." I see you delete my comments now... ok. But how about opening your mind to other aspects of "the truth?" Your god surely does not need you to protect him?
No Johnny I didn't delete your comments, what do you mean? And Lela your missing the point those scientific theories are highly pursued but are not proven just like my god. by the way johnny how did you get to comment twice, that's pretty cool.
The Higgs-Boson particles HAS been detected in the Hadron collider. Dark matter has been found, but is currently not understood. That's just a matter of time. And yet a god or gods still has not been detected even after thousands of years searching
You're giving false statements when typed in google the first thing you see is "Dark matter is a hypothetical kind of matter that cannot be seen with telescopes but accounts for most of the matter in the universe.." (real but no proof)
You are not getting good information in your search, try physics.org instead. And learn to keep up with fast paced and recent news.
How to comment twice?
I have a pssionate belief in Gremlins and they answer my every need!
Lela those 2 scientific theories i mentioned are not fully yet proven.The standard model that Higgs particle is found in is to this day still not complete and is still a variable. In fact both theories had no proof but were still pursued blindingly.
A couple of other site: ScienceDaily, Natgeo, Smithsonian
Wow. That's the same exact thing that I am saying about your god theory. But you are misinformed about physics for sure. I suppose you'll be telling us that gravity is still a theory too, right?
Come on Lela you're taking this in circles. These theories started out as just pure guesstimates without any proof (blind statements). But yet scientists still pursued. So like I said a lack of evidence doesn't mean something isn't real !
This started as an interesting debate. Seems to me it has been degraded into a brawl. I have lost interest.
Obviously there is no getting through to you, Dwight. So believe what you will.
----Asides from the topic---- Just came out of a test awhile ago and it was horrible! anyway I'm sorry guys that we don;t seem to be getting anywhere . I suppose that's why the debate between Christians and atheists are perpetual :(
Dwight, it can get us somewhere useful if we learn to - accept, unconditionally......I am happy to accept that you have your belief(s) and "faith," and not wish you to change that. Can you accept my position without wishing me to change?
Yes sir :) You know you just gave me about the most unbiased heartfelt comment since the entire duration of this discussion. atleast It felt that way. I won't force you to Christianity nor anyone else.
You did not answer my question. You side-stepped it.
Ummmm....no actually I did I started by saying "Yes sir". Meaning Yes I Can accept your position without wishing you to change.
Ok, thank you. My error.
Cool...... Well as a human being I can tell you to keep searching until you find where you belong and is comfortable.But as a Christian I MUST share with how great our god is and that accepting him will put all your doubts to rest; replaced by joy:)
Thank you i would love to learn some more about your relidgion i mean if you are willing to talk about it i am interested in things like this i might even blog about it x
where's your blog ?
just click on my name it will come up
(LOL) Oh I thought that you had a blog outside of hubpages :)
Let me check it out......
Okay so just returning from my short journey and i saw that you're new here. So let me be the first one to say welcome to hubpages! :)
What a prodigiously interesting response my friend. I like the build you develop before arriving to a conclusion. As a christian though I want to tell you that Christ is real. The evidence is to have faith in him wholeheartedly then comes proof.
Dwight, your need to keep telling people is your "stuff." It's like you are trying to convince yourself by getting others to believe the same. If you really have "faith" then give up wanting to control. What you want is irrelevant.
Sooooooooo......you want me to stop ministering?
Previously you said this: "Yes we are free to choose jonnycomelatel its one of the golden Ideals of Christianity." You do not know another person's needs. You only presume you do. Evangelism presumes your way is the right way. It ain't!.
I will tell you about the goodness of Jesus and how wonderful he is.....Then you can choose if you want to follow him. I would love to see you one day following Christ. I CAN'T AND WON'T FORCE YOU. But I will pray for you tonight, i promise :).
Dwight - Please write a hub presenting your evidence that "Christ is real". I would love to read it.
LOL....I'm sorry It's just that I find myself having to repeat the same response over and over again....I Keep telling my Non-believer friends that as a christian YOU DON'T LOOK FOR EVIDENCE TO PROVE GOD. IT'S ABOUT FAITH (ANTI-PROOF/EVIDENCE).
So,you don't have any credible evidence, then. You just believe what you have been told to believe on faith. Good luck with that.
Ahh now that's the comment I'm looking for.....My friend I've already passed through my time off asking questions and seeking evidence from I was a child...You now need to seek him for yourself so that you can find that proof in him you look for.
Let me be blunt. In praying for me you have made a judgment about me. Don't. The only responsibility you have is your own life. Just make sure it's in no way hypocritical.
Ummm..........okay cool. But everybody needs prayer, so if you can pray for me too please do :)
".....okay cool. But everybody needs prayer,...." in your humble opinion, whether they think they do or not.
Ok, very free-thinking......
My friend you keep thinking that I believe that someone or you did something wrong but that's not the case. When i said that everybody needed prayer it could mean any basic life struggle. I'm just praying for a a happier trouble-free life for them:)
Darrell, I like your conclusion very much! I may not agree with the God part, but living in peace, trying to be happy and helping others to be happy as well is well put!
Thanks Mara :)..... And that's an interesting view too. It's a unique answer, and I can understand it. It's like I've been telling people I don't serve Christianity or religion but god, because a lot of it as become more corrupted over time.
Wow I never saw that one coming :) Interesting spin to a question. So you're saying I should ask if Christ is real as opposed to Buddha, Zeus, Muhammad and etc... But you know that would group a couple of religions (judaism, islam, Bahá’í and etc)
Yes vink21778 , your input is highly valuable along with anyone else who wishes to add their thoughts. I like the colorful flavors that you brought to the topic. You see i asked this question so that I and others could learn something new.
It's an interesting one. I like that it is an open-minded one. That is something that is needed more in our world.
Very true :) instead of an argument people should know how to just share, assimilate and regurgitate a non-hostile, fair and well thought out answer.
tvs290. Please note that this is a 'safe place' where anyone can voice an opinion. Insults are NOT in order here. Try to understand the other person & respond in a kind, civil way.
Thanks Marie but it's okay....I understood that when I had asked this question that it had the likelihood of affecting a lot of people personally....I however accept that and am willing to take all the lashing with it. tvs290 thank you :)
if you have nothing nice to say dont say it at all he has an opinion
Thanks himanshi singh......I ask this question because it is one of those questions that can never seem to find it's answer. While on the other hand I am a very fervent highly convicted man of god have found my evidence in Christ.
seems tht you are highly devoted!! gud luck...
lol thanks... but umm I really mean no disrespect. I'm not overly righteous nor do i want to trample anyone's belief...i'm just compelled to share my joy :)
thn thats gr8 !!
You know......You crack me up :) why am I not following you on hubpages ?
the answer lies within you
Cool then I won't wait another second : ()..I see you're new on hub pages...Can't wait to read some of your stuff.......A writing freak huh :)
Thumbs up!!! Thumps up!!! what I liked:
Segregating religion from spirituality :)
Identifying the spiritual similarities in different religions:)
Your unbiased and understanding tone :)
Christianity isnt the sole cause of war:)
ran out of words:(
Ummmmmm...Interesting I can see that you've brought some difference...Short and spicy :) But it kinda makes what you said opinionated.
All religion is man-made. Therefore, there is no RIGHT religion. The universe exitsted well before that of man.
We have a saying in Jamaica "Way up stay Up!" basically I'm just saying Great Answer stargrrl!!! And mostly because it's nice to have some support around here. I was seriously pondering where my brothers and sisters were :)
Yes, the universe existed before man...as did God, who created it.
Nice one :)
You evidently are not familiar with all the gods who became men. Take a look at "incarnation" on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation
ummm me or stargrrl
All true sayings my friend....Sorry it took me so long to reply...I can see you have some wisdom :)
What is right to some right is relative.Religion is man made.It is best to believe in the Creator of all that was made. I do not believe the big bag theory and I believe the earth was created by a Superior . being. Does that make me a Christian
No. But I urge you to continue seeking out that superior being that you speak of..Hopefully you'll find yourself serving Christ....Believe me when i say there is a wealth of joy with him...However the journey is still not easy :)
Hi coconelly you're so right.... It's really nice to see another fellow christian I almost thought that hubpages was void of them. I can only hope that those who are non-believers can see what you have had to say.