1 Thessalonians 5:2-10: If Paul believed a physical 'rapture' of the saints would occur seven years prior to the return of Christ, widely taught by scholars today, why did he tell them to diligently wait for the 'Day of the Lord' and not the 'rapture?
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Misfit: "Probably truth?" The Truth is in His Word!
Until you "humble yourself" (II Chron 7:14) and do as He said when "studying" (Jn4:23-24; Is 28:10), you will NEVER be able to understand the Word of God!
Except that YOU limit 'his word' to the bible - which has threads of truth running through it that are twisted in with complete (and ancient) pagan fabrications. Awaken, Oh Pricness of God!!! ;)
Again, You "doubt" the Holy Spirit who said He would "reveal ALL truth!" Does that sound like a "believer?" Either you believe or don't! That's all I'm saying!
Is 2:22 "Cease ye from man... for wherein is he to be accounted of?"
Right. Either you believe what men put in your head or you let the Holy Spirit reveal the truth to you. God gave you a brain with logic & common sense, also. To deny those gifts is to insult him; and his 'followers' insult him every day.
Misfit: I guess Prov 3:5 (Did you read?) LIED! "Lean not to your OWN understanding..." So what is this "logic & common sense" according to the Word of God? "Denying" His Word "insults Him!"
DD: When one is "in the Lord," as you say "bending Scriptures to fit the theory" is unnecessary! Jn 14:26 & 16:13 says that the "Comforter would lead & guide us into ALL truth" so no need to "bend Scriptures" for Jesus (Comforter) will "reve
I believed the rapture theory for 35 years. Eleven years ago I re-examined the doctrine and I'm now convinced it is not scriptural.
My Hub explains why:
I used to believe it, too - wholeheartedly. I also used to believe in Creationism. It is amazing how freeing the truth is - Jesus was right, the truth will set you free and you will be free, indeed! ;)
Your comment is clear, I agree. I believed in the rapture for 35 years, until I re-examined the theory 11 years ago. I have learned to allow Scripture to interpret Scripture. Like Norine I try to depend totally on the Word of God.
Mr.Gibb: Info is OK but man's view infiltrates "spirit!" Jn 4;24. Nothing "imposed upon Paul" but Holy Spirit (Jer 31:33;Heb8:10;10:16)! Until world "sees" HS (JESUS) talked thru Paul telling us how to live under NC, they will be lost Gal 1:6-9!
Again, if the bible was actually 'The Word of God' things would be different. NONE of the gospels were written by any of the disciples - there was a contest with hundreds of entries. Four were chosen because 'there are 4 corners to the world'.
Misfit: WOW! You are "funny" or one misled person! Are you even a "believer?" Why would "things be diff" when ALL have "free will" to create their own & world chaos?
LoL! Sounds like you are admitting that I'm right! Here's a pic. It might help you see HOW your heretic ideals came about. The chaos & bondage put on people is UNCOOL! http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2010/01/...
Misfit: I will NEVER "admit one is right" if AGAINST the Word of God!
The link you've provided has been "deleted!"
Look at JESUS!
Precisely what I'm talking! Holy Spirit will "delete" all LIES eventually. The devil's already been defeated!
LoL! No, Norine the link is still there - I just ran out of room. You are being taught a lesson. Don't believe everything you think and don't assume anything. http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2010/01/...
Misfit: You're still searching in the "wrong direction" - man who LIES! You continue to do as stated in Rm 1:25!
Here's where we differ: I "believe" GOD, you "believe" man!
No, it is definitely the other way around. NOWHERE in the Bible does it claim that all 66 books are God’s word or infallible. The “Scriptures” referred to in Tim. refer to the OT; and the term “inspiration” does not mean “complete word of God".
Misfit: Do you know Holy Spirit? I Tim 3:16 said "ALL SCRIPTURE (whether ALL there r not which Holy Spirit will reveal & don't have to go elsewhere) is inspired by GOD.." I "believe" Jn 14:26;16:13 don't you?
I Pet 1:3 He has given us "...ALL things pertaining to life & godliness.." so it's in Scripture! Holy Spirit "reveals" mysteries not "our hearts!" Believers will be involved according to I Thes 4:13-18! You do have to worry! Talk The Word only!
Sorry Norine, I was talking about the tribulation, which IS something to be concerned about. My mistake! It still bothers me that 'rapture' is not mentioned in the Bible. I only know I am saved, and covered by the blood of Jesus. Thank you!
Spark: I made mistake too! "Walk & Talk the Word" also for Scripture tells us to "talk" (teach) His Word!
"Rapture" (not in Bible) is Spiritual not as man understands but according to Scripture (I Thess 4:17)! "Flesh & blood..." (I Cor 15
Norine: I taught my kids; Sunday School; Awana, and will share my faith with those who give me openings. I lost my son to preaching...he has nothing to do with God or me :( I was an idiot, too sanctimonious...so now I am hesitant to 'talk.'
Spark: We may "suffer persecution" but MUST do according to His Word (Matt 28:20) "...teach all nations." Be example for son! Do as Jesus said, & pray He chgs his heart & believe He will! Your son will return as the prodigal son did!
I just wanted to say that I have much respect for you. There is a lot of back and forth arguments over scripture. You come off, to me, as someone who follows rightly. Please continue in your walk because you are doing fine. Be the light...peace :-)
Yeah, my mom lost me, too - mostly bcuz of her fanatically religious bs that she both forced on me and raised me with - because she believed all the lies to begin with like most people in here obviously do. Best advice: DO YOUR RESEARCH on the bible!
Misfit: Ur mom did "the best she could," which was according to Scripture "Train up a child in the way he should go & when "he's old" he will not depart from it." (Prov 22:6).
Pls realize Holy Spirit will reveal "man's" chgs to bible!
Oh shut up, Norine - go do your damn research. Every Christian needs to do it for themselves before they continue to lecture like they do.
Mis: It seems u've violated Prov 3:5 "Lean not to ur own understanding" & have done "plenty of research!" I blv WORD, GOD doesn't LIE but "man" does! Keep Studying man's words & see what it gets u! Listen to mom!
Levi: Paul was chosen for "Gentiles" & NEW COVENANT teachings w/out LAW mindset such as Peter, James & John! Paul is NEW COVENANT teacher where we should be TODAY!
I agree Paul did not teach "rapture!"
I know what the Christian church teaches about what you're saying, Norine, but I'm approaching it from a historical, critical perspective, not a theological one.
Levi: Theological question deserves biblical answer! It doesn't matter what "history" or a "critical perspective" is, only what Scripture says!
The "Holy Spirit" spoke thru Paul changing others (law epistles) teachings!
And that's where you are incorrect, Norine. Historical criticism DOES matter. To say "history doesn't matter" is utters stupidity.
Levi: Yes "to man" spiritual things are "stupidity!" Studying diff versions of man's interpretations (confusion) & do not study only the Word of God, strays ! One MUST "believe" what is written & allow Holy Spirit guidance!
To ignore certain facts because they are inconvenient IS stupid, yet that is what YOU are doing when you ignore historical facts. But hey...it's your choice. Fortunately your type will never have much influence.
LL: Not "inconvenient" rather "irrelevant!"
Apparently, JESUS hasn't "much influence" either! Prov 3:5?
Norine, you seem like one of those unfortunate believers who 'knows' that The Bible is the only authority on this planet. But, Jesus himself warned his followers against writing down his words for a very good reason. Research why or remain ignorant.
Misfit: (Revelation Chptr 1-"write"): If 1 doesn't consider bible "only authority" - "unbelief!" I "believe" Jn 14:26 & 16:13! Jesus (Comforter) will 'reveal" ALL "lies" including those "historical facts" that He knew men would "add/take away
Norine: I would agree with that statement - Jesus / the spirit will reveal all. But, will God's children recognize it and be receptive to it when so many of them are SO SURE that they already know everything?
Misfit: A "believer" can ONLY rely on the Holy Spirit which doesn't contradict the Word of God! If Scripture, TRUE! When presented, do as the "Bereans" in Acts 17:11!
The Book of Acts is largely recognized as being a forgery imposed upon Paul - completely different from his 'letters'. Why don't Paul's letters mention things that the Gospels insist upon? Why is the message different? JUST cuz it was for gentiles?
Misfit: "The Gospels" were under "The Law!" New Covenant effective n Acts! Law fulfilled! Laws "put in hearts & minds" afterwards (Jer31:33; Heb 8:10;10:16)! Paul then taught what Holy Spirit (Jesus) told him to teach & write under New!
Quote: 'The Book of Acts is largely recognised as being a forgery imposed upon Paul', could you provide the source for your statement, I am interested in reading? I would like to answer all of your comment, but limited by Q & A rules.
Ah, Alexander, there you are! Unfortunately this thread was hijacked by Norine at the beginning. I was hoping you would have answered first. :)
Levi: Read Isaiah 5:13-25 w/emphasis on Vs15; 20-21; 23! V25"...but his hand is stretched out still." Look @ how many x's the Words in V25 is used in Isaiah!
Paul didn't write Acts. While *I* did much more indepth research on this, you can find the information why that book is in question simply by looking in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_Luke%E...
MrGibb: Precisely what I'm talking! Infiltrating! The link provided by Misfit makes Gal 1:11-12;16-20 a LIE! But this is "man's" job Jn 10:10! Holy Spirit revealed to Paul same as Luke's interpretation! Man doesn't know Holy Spirit (JESUS)!
Well now, that is the problem, isn't it? Logic & common sense are just not a part of the Christian curriculum. :)
You got it, Catherine. Christians are told NOT to use their reasoning abilities. They are taught that it's sinful. If a person truly wants the truth and begins to apply their reasoning, Christianity falls flat! Maybe that's why reasoning is off limit
Yeah, I grew up in a home like that where looking at anything other than the bible was a sin. SHAME on you for wanting REAL answers to your spiritual questions. http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2010/01/...
Levi/Misfit: NOW you have IT! That's why I've been telling u to read Prov 3:5 and Jn 14:26;16:13! The Holy Spirit does a MUCH BETTER JOB of "reasoning" than you are I can!
Norine, we are talking about the BIBLE and how it is designed to teach you to behave. The Holy Spirit is an entirely different subject. We ALL are made of 'spirit' without exception. Who do you think 'revealed' all this to me when I was seeking?
Misfit: II Tim 3:16 "ALL Scripture is inspired by God..." who is the Holy Spirit whose name is JESUS (Jn 14:26 "IN MY NAME")! Not "diff subject!"
There are spirits & there is the Spirit (I Jn 4:1)! When man puts "his reasoning" vs Jn4:23-24???
Well yeah, Norine... That is one of the main scriptures they use to make sure you do not seek information elsewhere. What was TIMOTHY identifying as 'the scriptures' when he wrote that? Do you know that many of them were destroyed or are still hidden
Misfit: Again, Do you not "believe" Holy Spirit will do what He said He would in Jn 14:26;16:13 "reveal ALL truth?" Why is this an issue if u "believe?" Are you a "believer?"
"Man"can"add or take away" but Holy Spirit teaches discernment! Gift!
I agree with you that the rapture is not scriptural. I take history into account to affirm events in the Scriptures, however, I believe the Bible is the Word of God and my faith is built upon it.
Q & A, limits comprehensive answers.
Mr.Gibb: Why do you need "affirmation" if you say "I believe the Bible is the Word of God and my faith is built upon it?"
Men will confuse! (Is 2:22)! They LIE! God doesn't (Num 23:19)!
I do not depend on history to assure me the Scriptures are true, I believe the Word of God.
eg Jesus said His generation would see the destruction of the temple, this occurred in AD 70. The reason I know, it was recorded in history.
Mr. Gibb: Give Scripture where "Jesus said His generation would see the destruction of the temple..."
Mr. Gibb: When studying Scripture, one MUST read ALL "in the Spirit!" Don't look for bldgs, temples, etc. It's ALL Spiritual!
Does the preceding vs not have wars, hypocrites, false Christs, etc today? "THIS" generation? Not "HIS" generation!
The destruction of the temple was the most amazing prophecy declared by Jesus. Its fulfilment to the letter and timing in AD 70 is God glorifying, yet you are unmoved by it.
Is "THIS" generation? Not "HIS" generation! a spiritual response?
Mr. Gibb: Bldg was "symbolic!" Jesus is the Temple! Yes, Spiritual! The Word of God is "ALIVE!" Didn't stop @ "HIS" generation! "THIS" generation goes on forever & ever! Jesus KNEW this! Your parents saw it & those "after" us until He retu
Yes Misfit "Discernment!" (Gift)
One of those "brainwashing" gifts or "benefits!"
Again, Too many "study" man! (Rm 1:25)
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