Kim Davis, county clerk in Kentucky had now been jailed on charges of contempt of court for refusing, on God's authority, to to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples. Her appeal was denied by the state and by the Supreme Court. She is claiming that her religious freedom is being infringed upon. Does religious freedom exempt you from following the lease or conducting the job you were elected to do? If yes, please indicate where to draw the line. For example, since the bible orders gay people to be killed, should a Christian who murders a gray couple get a pass?
sort by best latest
I would agree, but Kim Davis is not being forced to have a gay marriage. She was ordered to issue the marriage license a a function of the job she was elected to perform.
I gathered that, but if marriage was private, no clerk would have been requested to issue a government license in the first place. Arrest the Supreme Court, release Davis, and make marriage private.
If marriage was private and not regulated somewhere, then how would surviving partner and next of kin and health decisions if one person is incapacitated be feasible?
Marriage does not require regulation. If one is wishes certain 'rights' over property and health issues of others, one would simply draw up the necessary contracts. This is common place.
Until the 16th-century, Christian churches accepted the validity of a marriage on the basis of a couple’s declarations.Since 1837, the proof of a marriage has been by a marriage certificate. The court should rule on legal processes.
JG: Marriage "contracts" are throughout Bible (ex: I King 3/Solomon)! What "man" fails to realize, "marriage" is btwn "male & female" so says Rm 1:25-32! GOD "allows man" to enact evil laws to "test" blvrs & KIM DAVIS "passed!" Thank GOD f
Marriage existed long before the bible, Norine, although the bible says you can sell your daughter into marriage and have multiple wives and women should marry their rapists. Sounds good, right?
Why don't you "upgrade?" It's a new day & we're under a New Covenant! Why not spend more time studying that instead of of "history?"
Because the new covenant is interpreted in a million different ways just like the rest of the bible is, and not even believers agree on it. History is a lot more interesting.
That's where you go "against" Scripture! II Cor 3:18 says "We chg from glory to glory." How do you do that if remaining in history? Move forward! Come out fm Old Cov (history)! It's a new day w/New Covenant or lost (Gal 1:6-9)!
Because, Norine, I don't believe your book is actually true, giving me no reason to follow it. This is a simple concept. People who do believe are welcomed to, but more people world Wide don't than do.
What other book have prophecies prophesied over 2K yrs ago & have come true? Ex: 9/11 Is 9:10! "...but more people world Wide don't than do." Do you go w/flow? WOW! I thought only Christians "flowed" in "faith!" At least we have a "hopeful" end!
You have a very loose definition of prophecy. Do the prophecies in Islam and other religions make them true, too?
Have we seen them fulfilled in this day & age? Name them?
Ask a Muslim. They'd say yes. You'd also have to prove that ties are actually prophecies and meet the criteria. It's a weak argument to make.
Gary, we're all so happy that you feel "she done right."
True we are to obey theGoverment to a point because even Jesus says so ,
Mr 12:17Jesus then said: “Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.”
But notice we are not to give God things to Ceasar.
Ac 5:29 God is a higher ruler .
Romans 13:let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed.
True Scripture Julie as posted , but this is about Basic law and order we are to obey , like paying taxes, human endangerment, street laws, the reason that does not apply to this Subject because God himself condemn homosexual relationships.1Co 6:9
Did u continue reading Rm 13:14 "...make not prov for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts." If they would've, none of this would be happening!
If man's laws conflict w/GOD'S law, then Acts 5:27-29 applies "...We ought to obey GOD rather than man!"
There was no such thing as exclusive homosexual relationships in biblical times. It was tired to pedophilia and cult temple prostitution. Applying it here is composting apples to oranges. She defied an order from the Supreme Court. Period.
Do you think the Muslim flight attendant should get to keep her job after refusing to serve drinks to passengers over her religious freedom in deference to islam?
A flight attendant does not have a governmental position. She is not paid by taxpayers. In this situation there is no issue of following established law. A private company should have the right handle things differently.
So you think that because Kim Davis is an elected official, she should be free to break the law in denying equal rights, while others who act for equal rights should be punished? I'm going to understand your position here.
The point is that since so many other government officials in the past disobeyed the law of the land, as did Kim Davis, and were not put into Jail for it, she should not be put in jail.
Do you have verifiable links to the other two cases you mentioned? As well as the "many other examples"? Did either of those people defy a court order from the Supreme Court, because that's what she's actually in jail for -contempt of court.
What I mentioned were from news stories. If you can do research and find them then maybe you can't. The Supreme Court did not issue a court order. They deferred to a ruling from a lower court. She was in jail for contempt of court..
Amen! Straight from the Word of God! Love the sinner, "hate" the sin!
Norine Julie is Atheist and really she is a very respectable allowing others to speak ,
You can not represent your case with the bible alone because she does not belief in God , or in his word the Bible , the Father forces no one to come understand
WORD doesn't say "leave atheist alone!" I know Julie is Atheist but has a soul! I appreciate her kindness but WORD is for ALL!
True Norine the word is for all and you have a zeal to share it , but we should be argumentive.
Me as well! But "TRUTH" will prevail!
Julie the scriptures says this at 1Co 6:9The Bible was written for the Jews in the old testement, but Jesus upgraded in New Testament .
Notice if God allows an Authority To Stand or exist
He is higher then that Authority.
We agree on that K&T! GOD RULES!
So if Christians are to throw out the old testament, you've lost both original sin (the reason Jesus came at all) and all of Jesus heritage, since he was a practicing jew. He said heaven and earth would disappear before the law did.
Julie Jesus words at Mt 5:17“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.
He came to upgrade the law to better it,
Example no more gifts of animal sacrefice,
No more circumcision not required
Keep reading verses 18-20. Has the earth disappeared? You're taking the words of Paul, who never met Jesus, over the words of Jesus himself.
JM: Read Jer 31:31-33; Heb 8:10;10-16 re: New Covenant's origination! Jn14:26 &16:13 Promised Holy Spirit.Came Acts 2:2; began"puting laws n hearts & minds via Holy Spirit AFTER Jesus ascended telling Apostles what to do. So NOT "Paul" but HS
And how do you prove that? Didn't the holy Spirit think to inform Jesus of that in Matthew? I know you believe that it was the holy Spirit, but believing something doesn't make it true.
Read Jn 14:26 ("..in MY name..") so Holy Spirit's NAME is JESUS!
He did as He said in Matt "fulfilled law" by "puting laws in hearts & minds" vs. "stone!"
New Covenant is ALL Spirit (Jn 4:24)!
Lol so no proof, just more baseless claims that go against trinitarian doctrine now. Do you understand that saying something doesn't make it true?
Are you saying the Scriptures (WORD OF GOD) I just gave you are LIES? Did u read? Do u care or just talking? Acts 17:11 Read to "see if these thgs are so!"
I'm saying that the bible is the claim, and something cannot be the claim and the proof that the claim is true. By your logic, you also have to agree that the Koran is true because it says it is. You're using fallacious circular reasoning.
Did I not tell u that "proof" is in "belief?" PK1-PhD? Action has been shown me by Holy Spirit which inc my "faith!" Read II Chron 7:14! Try It to "see" PROOF!
Taking something that says it's true does not make it actually true, no matter how much you believe it. Thank you for admiring you have nothing but hot air. Please stop invading my question with your twisted rhetoric or it will be deleted.
Norine we should not be argumentive, you do not argue with sheep , they come by Jesus call. we just feed and help.
If you read my question, you will see that I stated that the bible orders people to kill homosexuals, and Paul states in the new testament that they are worthy of death. someone could conceivably take that into their own hands.
240 millions Christians in the U.S. and no a single example of murder. Paul says they are worthy of spiritual death if they do not repent; does not call for killing them. Atheist could "conceivably" kill Christians for their beliefs but so what?
You're saying Christians have never committed a murder? I could prove you wrong with actual facts, but you'll hide behind the "no true scottsman" fallacy and say they weren't "real"Christians. A convenient, yet fallacious excuse"
JM: You're mixing "spiritual death" with "carnal death!" Paul wrote of "spiritual" things or did u not read Jn 4:24? Yes MANY (before coming to Christ) Christians killed in Scripture but due to "ignorance!" Did u find 1 "AFTER" coming under NC?
Norine, all of the entire list of Christian atrocities were after the nc, because there were no Christians before it. I'm not sure why that's hard to understand.
'Christians' have murdered abortionists, that's a fact, and in doing so shown that they have not understood their bible, for nowhere does Yeshua allow us to kill others, except possibly in defence of others.
But they must pay the price.
Thank you for not saying they were not real Christians, they just misunderstood their bible. Your honesty is refreshing.
JM: After NC Christians came over fm OT;I Pet4:6! But who "murdered" another after NC was my question?
PAUL didn't say ANYTHING according to Jer & Hebs! Why u say PAUL said when JESUS talked THRU Paul R Scripture LIED (Jer 31:33;Heb 8:10;10:
Norine, thousands of people were killed under the banner of Christianity for almost 2000 years. It's almost like you know nothing about the history of the church at all. Before Jesus, there were jews, not Christians.
If u would move under NC, u would know that Jesus offered the same Grace to the dead before ascending into heaven & though not written became Christ Followers or Christians so says Scripture!
History is being taught but neglect NC?
And where does the bible day that, Norine?
I Peter 3:19 When Jesus went into grave & spoke to prisoners (souls) & I Pet 4:6 "...that they may be judged according to men in the flesh..." He afforded EVERYONE "GRACE" so they could be judged as the living have been afforded. The same GRA
Da 7:10A stream of fire was flowing and going out from before him. A thousand thousands kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The Court took its seat, and books were opened.
The courts in the heavens stands.
K&T: Yes, "The courts in the heavens stands" but let's see how Fed Govt reacts since they enforce BOTH Religion (Davis) & Sex (LGBT's) under Title VII of the Civil Rights Acts of 1964, as amended! I'd like to see them weezle themselves out o
Though, I had an acquaintance that was following an intense training to get married to his Jewish friend in a synagogue in New York, so???
Huckabee wants to visit her, maybe she will run for an office later… no Sarah Palin though, please...
The Supreme Court did not create the law, they interpreted the law. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/0... Davis swore an oath to uphold the law and failed to do so in contempt.
The KY Constitution says marriage is between a man and a woman. Kim was doing her job up until the SC changed things. Right or wrong, she has integrity.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/0... it doesn't really matter what Kentucky says. Someone full of such hypocrisy cannot be acting with integrity.
So there is no integrity for someone who holds to what they believe to be absolutely true. Got it. Thank you. Unfollowing now.
That's not at all what I said, and you know it. It has nothing to do with how true she holds her beliefs. Prior to the SC ruling, she had no problem issuing marriage licenses to people who had been divorced. It's hypocrisy and discrimination
JM from an earthy sense this seems to be the only law, but it is not, the law of God still stands and operates his own court and he is the higher Judge, look up because we are not alone nor uncountable in his court of LawPs 50:6, God does not change
Definition of marriage according to US Government Publishing Office. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title1/ht... the word “marriage” means only a legal union between one man and one woman
Yes, from 2011 and the defense of marriage act. Baker was overturned by the Supreme Court in Obergefell.
Well let's see what happens because BOTH are of a "protected class" under Title VII of the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 (as amended)! Davis under Religion and LBGT' under Sex!
Fed Govt is a hoot trying to appease all men now they have their behin!
Freedom of religion protects you to worship and practice your religion, but not to discriminate or break the law. Davis is free to have her religion, but not to force it upon others, which is what she's trying to do by denying civil rights.
JM: Not SO! Title VII of the Civil Rights Acts of 1964, as amended, "protects" religious beliefs! If against her belief, she should've been "ACCOMMODATED" which would have eliminated the problem. But let's see OBAMA sweat is the name of the game!
You're misunderstanding what freedom of religion means, Norine. If I'm on a diet, I have no right to force you to eat diet food. Having a religion does not give you the right to force others to adhere to it.
We're not talking "freedom of religion" but violation of Religious rights (beliefs)! Accommodate & would've been no problem! Now she has a "basis" to file under Title VII! I've seen "no Sunday" work violations win bcuz "Accommodated!"
You don't have to accommodate someone unwilling to do the job they were hired or elected to do. You do not get to use your religion do deny another person's rights with impunity. You have to face the consequences for breaking the law
Not according to Title VII. Religious accommodations decisions were made quite often under Title VII @ EEOC for beliefs of Sabbath Day (Sunday)! But this is diff. Homosexuality overrules religion according to Supreme Court! A mess US placing us n
Norine, if you got a job at a butcher shop and your religion forbade you from eating pork so you refused to sell pork for other people to eat and wouldn't let your coworkers sell it either, you should not keep your job. It's that simple.
Heard of accommodation? Someone else could've issued license as they've since done since she's gone to jail. What's wrong w/that?
IS THIS POLITICAL OR RELIGION VS US SUPREME COURT?
She refused to allow any of her deputy clerks to issue the license either, effectively forcing her employees and the citizens to abide by her religious beliefs. You are not legally allowed to discriminate. That's the bottom line here.
They got married while she was in jail. They could've done it before she went to jail. FORCING someone to go against "religious beliefs" is unconstitutional & so is denying the "legal rights" of same sex marriage! Govt enacted both. Needs revisio
I don't know how many people have to repeat this to you, Norine. Davis ordered her deputy clerks not to issue the licenses either. She is also saying that licenses issued during her imprisonment are invalid, but she's wrong about that too
How many x's do I have to tell you, they could've done what they did while she was in jail if "valid"-"Accommodate!" I still smell "Politics!" See Religion vs. Immorality? See US' response? See "Satan's Kingdom" becoming more prevalent in societ?
I'm not going to go around in circles with someone who just says the same thing over and over again despite having it explained to them.
Great! Until you read the laws and protection is gives, it's futile! As one doesn't read New Covenant & protection thereof!
I understand the law and it's protections. You're the one that thinks it means something that it doesn't.
1 answer hidden due to negative feedback. Show
1 answer hidden due to negative feedback. Hide