It is mentioned a lot that Morals are dictated by Religion, and the inference (or the direct statement occasionally) is that therefore Atheists are immoral. What makes people think this? I'm curious. Has anyone considered that doing of good deeds only because God is watching is a scary thought - what would that person do if God wasn't watching? (Not atheists...but..religious people who ONLY do good due to GOD). Atheists - how does it make you feel?
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".. recently revealed that, toward the end of his life, Albert Einstein wrote a letter in which he dismissed belief in God as superstitious & characterized the stories in the Bible as childish." The inevitable is coming! (retr Einstein&God, 9
I understand the sentiment of the quote "if people are only good..." however; on what grounds is that comment based, and on what basis is it any more valid than another's opinion on how we ought to arrive at our moral destination?
Truth: True! For what is "good" to 1 may be perceived otherwise to another! The "only" righteous is Jesus! Admit it or not, morals are "innate" from God for we were "created in His image!"
Without a supreme being and leadership from higher ups, Humans could not even wipe their butt! I guess you were taught to wipe your butt or did it just happen? I guess Einstein was born with a roll of toilet paper connected on his pencil!
@ginosblog I'm pretty sure there are no instructions in the bible on how to wipe your butt.
Gin: The ("innate") "feeling" 1 is born with when "doing right" comes fm GOD for our spirit is "connected" bcuz we were "created in His image" (righteousness) then persuaded via society, env, &/or religion!
Einstein repented & so will ALL!
Norine - Einstein did not. Your quote means he thought of the bible as superstition and children's tales. Don't sound like a repentant soul to me.
Jacq: You wish! Continue living! You'll see!
Did u ever find "ANY" book w/as many prophesies fulfilled written before bible?
No one can answer?
I don't need to wish - it's terribly obvious by yr quote Einsteins not positive thoughts on religion.
U want preBible books? But u don't believe anything existed pre God..or do u? How many ends of the world has it predicted now? 9??
Jacq: Why cont w/Einstein? U "lost 1 of yr own?" Jun 2015 his ltrs auctioned re:"not atheist!" Hurt r u? Yes, "pre-bible" books! NO! Nothing existed before GOD! Man assigned dates (lies)! Where's book?
When 1 dies, "end of world!" Ready?
It is quite simple thank you. So simple in fact that one would think even the religious could understand it. But one would be wrong. They do not seem to be able to grasp this concept at all.
You can still give to charity and have a crooked heart. Sometimes, the people receiving the charity, have been praying, and God has the unbelievers work for them.
Meow, Timmy...Did you just suggest that God answers prayers by delivering his miracles through CROOKS? God "uses" the unbelievers as his UPS/FedEx?? How old are you Timmy? I see you like bedtime stories. How cute.
Paula, that reply was priceless! You're a lovely person!
Yr final paragraph is EXACTLY what I mean - no independant thought is scary.... they scare me because they are ONLY GOOD because they think God is watching...what would they do if they thought he'd looked away?
Joey & Billy in lunch line, saw basket of apples & sign "Take only ONE! GOD IS WATCHING!" They took ONE ! At the very end of line was a bowl of cookies. Joey took 8. Billy screamed"WHAT R U DOING?!" Joey said, "It's OK! God's watching the app
Jacq: Did I not say "We were once as u & did as society does & what's "taught" as right? But once blv found we're "made n the image of GOD" which is "righteousness." Society instills morals which r in His WORD. Since we blv, morals r estab by
Take a look at the book of 'Judges'
"In those days there was no King and everyone did as they pleased!" (Judges 21 verse 25) Now look at the mess they got into and the mess we're in! Not so different!
Law: Ur're right! Then blame GOD! The "worst" is yet to come for they r moving farther fm His Word!
I'm sorry to correct you. No one is born with an innate sense of right & wrong or good & evil. We learn these things from our elders, our society, our schools, and our experiences. If it were innate, there would be no disagreements over what
DW Davis, thank you for being the voice of reason! If humans cannot agree on a universal code of ethics, how could morality possibly be innate? Even assuming that we did have a universal code, on what grounds can we tell who's seeing right or wrong?
Guys: If u blv GOD is Creator, then "created in HIS image" says it all! How we differ is then acquired by " learned things from our elders, our society, our schools, and our experiences." Problem: NOT ALL TAUGHT BIBLE; therefore, differ!
Kylyssa - thanks! Glad it doesn't scare you - it was phrased that way because many fundamentalists assume Atheists are inherently immoral, so it seemed logical to 'assume' for the sake of this question, the fundies r merely moral out of fear.
With the sort of Media items that are out there the people are becoming more and more unsocial and that has a lot to do with the fix the world is in now. No one has the balls to speak face to face or they are lying about themselves. PS4 & so on!
Ginosblog, why don't electronically assisted communications between people "count" in your belief system? If you didn't use anything but face-to-face communication you wouldn't even know about troubles in the rest of the world.
It is the Father to Judge ,and next people are telling you they do not believe in the bible but you are using the bible tell them something.
That is like singing a song to a death ear.
Or showing pictures to some one blind.
Listen to people
Listen to ppl? Why world is today, "gullible!" Blv ANYTHING but HIS WORD! Jesus said "Judge "RIGHTEOUS" judgment (only fm WORD) which I do by "repeating!" U r @x's SO FAR fm Scripture! "TEACH!" WORD falls according to Matt 13:18-23! RDMatt 13:10-
Great answer! Now if we could only get these words to the people who need them.
Shannon - YES! Hypocritical isn't it, to 'dictate' morality, when the history of the faith trying to do so is riddled with Godly condoned immorality.
Ladies: When u *create something, it's urs to do as u pls! So it is w/God! When HE SAYS "It will be done," it's so! If "ANYTHING" gets in way of HIS WILL, "Move!" U fail to blv HE IS GOD - THE CREATOR (*as u) like decision or not! NEW COVENANT=CHGS!
I only wish that right and wrong were as absolute as you seem to believe. But people differ on what is right in some instances and what is wrong in others. Hence we have arguments, fights, killings, and warfare.
DW: Hence, different perspectives re:morality! But if aligned w/Word of God ALL would be on "ONE Accord!"
"Hence we have arguments, fights, killings, and warfare."
What book do you follow?
Gin: What other "Book" is there?
The "Gospel of Christ" doesn't reflect last para actions under New Covenant!
In Old Testament "WHATEVER" prevented the coming of Christ so Scripture would be "fulfilled," was removed! If GOD says He would do, He DID, so Scripture's "fulfilled!"
Thanks Austin. A lot of what you mentioned is part of what annoys/confuses me about Religion - righteous, yet murderous...hmmm, doesn't work for me. Thanks for sharing.
What about the killing of your own children simply because of inconvenience? We recognise that the Ancient 'morals' may not be current, but the principles behind many are still valid and the foundation is the ancient! Recognise the base!
lawrence - do you approve of your country going to war and killing our young men and women? how about the death penalty, do you approve of that? Death at any age is wrong (including the fetal age).
I do believe in the 'just war theory' and in principle I believe in the death penalty! My problem with both is we can never be really sure we get the right people!
Hope this helps (by the way I am an ex soldier!)
Historically, common sense rules became laws became commandments became religious edicts after the invention of religion. Morals arose when humans started living together in communities and killing and stealing to survive was no longer needed.
Oh really and where do you get your research? Morality goes further than kill, maim, and harm other humans. Respecting yourself is included. So your saying Islam is wrong, right? I'm just saying. Faith is bigger than some of us can comprehend.
Gin: Agreed! "Faith is bigger than some of us can comprehend." There is POWER in "FAITH!" 1 can "move mountains!" I guess "unblvrs" call it "Mind Over Matter?" More Powerful than physical, logic, reasoning, their understanding!
So righteous and murderous or non righteous and murderous, which is best? By the way, who teaches ancient morals. These fat ass women tweaking or whatever, don't even know that!
Ignorance of bible creates conversation such as this! The Old Testament ways r no longer! OT prepared for coming of Christ or MOVE! Bible written in dispensations! New Covenant in effect NOW! ALL SPIRITUAL/ALL LOVE!
And who among us is so moral that we have the power to judge? Even religionists are not supposed to judge others, but they do it all the time. Like you say, it's up to an individual to be "moral" or not. And it has nothing to do with religion!
Yes, religionists judge as to prove that they are somehow "better". However, upon close scrutiny, they do worse things than those who they have judged. Such hypocrites, many religionists are hiding skeletons....they DO things also.....
Religionists judge to prove that they're somehow "holier", "better." But religionists DO THINGS ......sometimes WORSE things. So hypocritical, isn't it? They say one thing, DO QUITE ANOTHER!
Yes some religious people do behave like hypocrtites. There's a special kind of low IQ types who think they have wisdom. However the silent majority don't behave that way. Added to this is the intolerance shown to all religions by certain atheists
We are intolerant of the PREACHING! I am sick and tired of religionists trying to explain to me how and why their "god" exists. They present no evidence yet expect us to just "believe" BECAUSE.....
Hard core atheists are also preaching but they deny this. Because...? Denial?
Oz - what exactly would atheists be preaching? I've seen a few things that may be but are in answer to being preached at, but you are the one saying they preach - so about what?
Many atheists preach against all religions, they preach about a whole new wobbly social paradigm, about vague new ethics based on "empathy", about stopping religious influences in schools, about a huge range of philosophy re: nearly all of society
Some, not many. Just like SOME Christians preach, but not many - it's just the only ones many people know of either, are the noisy ones. I don't preach, but I REALLY don't like being preached at, or being misrepresented (immoral etc). I see yr point.
Oz will never understand that atheists do not preach. They refute what religionists are preaching. There is a difference, but most people can't see it. Atheists have no god or gods to preach for. We only care about humanity.
Preaching is preaching. I feel like I'm being preached to by atheists as well as religious people. When someone tries to tell us what to do=preaching. It's not necessarily a bad thing.
Why don't you do your own research and figure out what to do all by youself? Why do you need to be told what to do or what/how to think? You are an adult, right? No one should be preaching to you at your age.
Austin - just because WE don't preach, doesn't mean that some others don't do something close to preaching (I no a few who come in 1st rather than wait 2 b preached @). I can see what Oz is saying. It's not always "religious"
I u derstand, Jacqui. But Oz accusses people of preaching to him and they are doing nothing like that. If one doesn't like to hear hard information, then change the channel and don't listen to it. Walk away.
GM: U spk of blvrs as "judging!" We use WORD-IT judges! WORD says "Judge righteous judgment" (Jn7:24) & We r not "righteous" as indicated in my resp (Growing)! We "blv" as commanded "Teach!"
As Austin said, "Chg channel..Walk away!"
Have you ever watched, Survivor on TV. Or Big Brother. They show that you lie, cheat to get ahead. They are not Religious, and they show that every man for himself. But a Group who Honors a higher power, will work together to benefit the group.
Inspir: Have u noticed the "disagreement" btwn "disciples" re: " circumcision?" Also, Acts 15:7 shows "much disputing!" How else can we "..prove, correct, instruct in righteousness" (II Tim 3:16) w/o dispute? Only when on "One Accord" no disputes
You have to have some kind of guideline or what do you compare to, your peers? Good luck!
Gin: What do "I compare to?" Not "man!" Spiritual is ABOVE man's thinking! Why most can't "relate!" "GOD is not man that He should LIE" (Num 23:19)!
Don't need "luck," only FAITH!
True to a point, but religion comes in verieties, Babylon was the empire of many deities, as Jpark mention the Hammurabi was written by a king in BCE time period.
It has laws, as well, but the laws was based
on business practices,and few others.
K&T: Why do u cont to "follow" me trying to discredit as did the Scribes & Pharisees? U have READ & KNOW but "teachings" in err & u hate to admit, so discredit TRUTH? U "will" stand before GOD & then what?
I will stand with NO d
Norine we are not in the position to judge anyone, nor use God's word to force a judgment, if that was the case the Angels would personally be used,
Can you see a person's heart over the Internet, No !neither do you know their plight in life,stop!
Why so far fm Scripture K&T? Matt 7:24 "Judge "RIGHTEOUS" (WORD) judgment! Who lies?
Why "appease" ppl rather than TRUTH which is LOVE! STUDY!
Matt 15:18 says "Out of mouth comes fm heart" so we "know" ppl's hearts by their words! U no?
P.S.: No, it doesn' scare me. Even if God has absolute control, it's still up to the individual to decide.
That's an excellent observation. Even fundamentalists should agree on personal salvation (or not) - except the ones that believe that once you have been baptized, you are "saved" forever.
That first sentence felt as though you pulled it out my proverbial "soul."
Yo: What's "detrimental" about "God looking down to Man?" Yes, we have "free will" but how is "..one is just as good as any other?"
Austinstar and 1000 Words - thanks for your comments. Norine - all religions are merely speculations made by different nations. No Voice ever boomed out of the sky, telling people if God exists. Anyone expecting to be spoon fed will be disappointed.
YO: When belief in "speculation" produces "proof" how does 1 explain? Holy Spirit does "speak" ("reveals" His WORD) to "blvr!" How "spoon feed? "Believing" WORD?
"No Voice ever boomed out of the sky, telling people if God exists."
Completely illogical statement. In order to make it, logically, you will have to know everything there is to know.
NO: how many Holy Books have you read? Sure, the Christian Bible says it's Absolute Truth, but so does the Qu'ran; who's to say who is right? SirDent: Shouldn't everyone hear that Voice? What if I spoke only to some of my children, and not others?
YO: Those who have tried GOD & "benefits" rewarded KNOW! If Qu'ran works for others, OK by me! I've tried GOD & "benefits" plentiful so it works for me! "Thou shalt have no other god before me" is enough for me w/"benefits!"
NO: I'm glad Christianity works for you. I respect the rights for Christians to practice their religion however they see fit. I also respect the rights of other religions; all are valid. Likewise, I demand the same respect from others.
YO: We all have "free will!" What u fail to realize is that we all have "freedom of speech" as well! If I blv Jesus said "teach," I have no choice whether u "demand respect" or not! If I see 1 err, I corr w/His Word,not mine! Don't reply if disrespe
Speak to your children, Yes, Yo. Do you speak to my children? No.
The children of God know His voice. Those who are not His children do not know His voice. How will you recognize the voice of God when He does speak?
He created us all, didn't He? Aren'wecall His children?
Not all are His children. Jesus stated it in the New Testament, speaking to some who thought they knew better than God. "You are of your father, the devil." John 8:44 Also read verse 33 first to really see what He said about hearing.
Sir dent- the bible plainly states that "god created all things, including evil" do I need to look it up for you? Or is the bible something you only believe in when it's convenient?
AS, is this an elementary school yard? Are you trying to bully me into submitting to your ideas? Is this your attempt at shutting me up? I have not addressed you at all on this question.
All I am doing is asking you a question regarding your comment. You may choose to ignore me, not answer the question, or whatever. You do not have the right to attack me verbally by calling me a bully.
Be honest now, AS. Sir demented was what you wrote first.
Yep, and then I changed it because I realized it would be stooping to your name-calling level. I have the power to admit my errors. Do you?
Well, at least you were honest. I asked you if you were trying to bully me into shutting up. A simple question, nothing more.
God said, "I create evil." Jesus said, "I came not to send peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34.
LOL, you guys!
SirDent and NO - this is where bigotry comes from. People of ALL nationalities and countries were created by God; why should He favor one nationality above all? Many Christians don't even realize their religion was originally ARAB!
YO, Christianity was not originally Arab. It stems from Jesus, the Christ. It has nothing to do with Arabs but everything to do with Jesus.
Jesus was faithful, even to death. Because of Him, we can have life, not mere existence.
SD - Jesus was an ARAB! A Middle Eastern JEW! Check out where He lived and wandered on a map. He even traveled in Syria (Damascus!)!
Yo, I think you need to find better resources. Jesus' mother was a Jew, (Hebrew). His Father was something else. His Father is God. This would make Him more like a Samaritan.
Here is my resource: http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-categor...
Jesus was still an ARAB!!!
Of course, there is absolutely no bias on that site. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. His death was for life for those who believe. The only hope there is for anyone is to believe upon Jesus. Unfollowing this question now. We are off topic
You know YO, when ppl suffer "traumatic experiences," instead of "leaning on Jesus," I have found MOST "turn fm Jesus!" Job did not "turn!" Why r we weak? Why can't we have "faith?" The "test" provides "Growth" if passed r 1 resorts to sin!
If you really know Christianity, you should know that it is Not a Religion. It is The Way of life for all men. God wrote morality on man's heart before Christ. Now Jesus is Here and you dont have an excuse or choice.
Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism.... ALL religion is a system of BELIEFS. You "believe" the words you just said, but that does not make those words true. It makes them "religious". You need a hefty dose of reality.
By the same token, so is your religion of nonbelief!
NO: What if the trauma came from the church itself? I had to watch helplessly while my niece dropped out of high school to join a cult. If things had worked out in Seattle, I could have rescued her, and she could have attended a great church there.
YO: Satan was on his job which is USUALLY thru "the church" not "THE CHURCH!" JESUS went into Synagogues (churches) & devil ALWAYS there! So it is today!
Child 2 young to "seek 1st the kingdom of GOD" WORD (Matt 6:33) & easily persuaded!
Key word....Cult! There is where you made your mistake.
If you want to get into it - all religion fits into the dictionary definition of cult - be it what we see as 'cult' in the modern sense, or any religious beliefs held by a large number of people.
Jacq: Religion: "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe,.." (Dict.com)
Do atheist not have the "belief" there is no God? Therefore, by your analogy, they're a "cult" also!
Norine - the ONLY shared belief of atheist is the lack of a belief in God/s. We all differ greatly on beliefs around nature etc. so there is no set shared beliefs. So no, don't fit as a religion - at all.
Jacq: And as you can see by "constant" disagreements w/in "religion," the only belief we have in common is belief in GOD! "A belief" equals religion according to Dict.com & "cult" according to your analysis!
Thanks Bruce for your answer. I like the quote!
BS: I'm blvr! Innate fm God so how can 1 blv unblvr immoral? Sounds unscriptural! W/O God more likely! Get drunk & see what "could" happen! Holy Spirit leads us! Unblvr has no Guide! Just get drunk!
I really think God is watching is crutch to say why christians will not do bad things,
Because you can teach your children and tell them not to do something , and they will still do it behind your back or in front, some willing to take punishment.
K&T: As "preacher's kid," I know this is TRUE! Most "rebellious" kids n the world! But when "HE" (The Spirit aka GOD aka JESUS) "Calls," different for HE "puts His law n mind & writes in heart!" SPIRITUAL!
"Religion" wrong word! GOD! Not scary if GOD!
YO: Pray for your niece! God can do ANYTHING but "fail!"
You are on the right path of logic but you are missing a premise. You are saying A -> B, therefore A-> C. You need a premise to connect B (religion) and C (morals) otherwise you are making an association fallacy.
Fine. Religion, B, was created by man, infusing morals, C. My point is that religion is a man-made thing used to control the masses.
Pop: "Control masses?" I guess "Religion" is but not Disciples of Christ! There's a diff! Have u ever heard "preacher's kids worst?" No Lie! I am! Couldn't "Control" me! But HE (JESUS) "Calls!" Then u "want too!" SPIRITUAL!
Religion was created by the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Man revised it to suit their philosophy's and ideals.
Gin: "Religion" was not "created by..." Did u not see Christ "fulfill religion" when He went into Synagogues?
Religion="WORKS!" James 1:27 gives biblical definition of "religion!"
I am so sorry, But the truth is, that everyone is born in sin.Or born Bad. That is what the bible teaches and thats why we need Jesus. If parents didnt teach morals, and God removed His hand, We would have destroyed ourselfs long ago.
Inspir: I am sorry, but if we were "created in His image," how r we born sin? "Born in sin" means born into a sinful world! Even Christ was "lower than the angels" having been "born in sin" (flesh/the world)! SUBJECTED TO SIN (World) but DID NO SIN!
CC: Why do u thk Christians r "controlled" for "Fear of GOD?" Yes, we "fear" Him bcuz we realize He has ALL Pwr! We were"created" by Him & "He Controls" but to assume just bcuz "He's watching" displays "ignorance" of His Word & denies His P
You say I'm ignorant because "I deny his word", how do you know it's a he? Why have you personified something? The word is also "Because" not "bcuz", it's lazy abbreviations that destroy languages and wreck communication. I didn't know he had P prob?
CC: Why angry? Limited space! SPIRIT can b whatever 1 desires but GOD is Who He is for as He said "I AM" which means Whatever/Whomever! A relationship w/GOD provides "benefits" which 1 cannot perceive if nonbeliever! "..denies His POWER!"
That's not entirely fair Norine. We can have the same benefits because we have total trust in ourselves and have inner strength (not religious) which is not to unsimilar to what you get from a relationship with God. Just without the nonsense verses.
CC: GOD rains on the just as well as the unjust so those can't "see" rt fm wrong w/o the help of the Holy Spirit but "benefits" not same! "Trust n self" against WORD (Prov 3:5)! Where do u thk u get that "inner strength?" Evolution?
I will tell you where that inner strength comes from. Certainly not from nonsense mumbo jumbo. It comes from a lifetime of experiences - sad ones, happy ones,hard ones and even harder ones which have given me friends whose support gave me strength
CC: So morals come fm "friends?" Where did u come fm? Evolution? A monkey? They have morals?
I did not say that Norine. I said I got my inner strength brought out by my friends. You are just twisting it for your own ends. You are not a Christian, you use religion as a weapon. A true Christian would listen to another point of view!
A true Christian would listen to others. How true. Some people are controlled totally by the fear of being wrong about god and religion. They tend to insist that what they believe is true to the exclusion of all other rational thought.
Thank you Austin Star - I am not a Christian, but I do believe that everyone has the right to do whatever they wish, be who they want to be and live how they want to live, as long as they do not infringe on another persons right to do the same.
CC.Should've warned U, dear man. but let U C 4 Urself. Best U STOP now. She will NOT stop.( obsessed, possessed & fanatical). Constant, repetitious babble. Rude, disrespectful, snarky. Claims 2 B "Christian" Does NOT behave like 1. Let it go.
Paula! U R starting to sound like her! Step away from the comment box and let it go. CC is a smart man and he has already figured it out, LOL!
Lela....LMAO! I see it's happened. I let myself get pushed over the edge!! HELP!
Thanks Paula and Austinstar
I had her rumbled quite early on. Truth be told, I was giving her enough rope. It worked and she hanged herself, you'll notice she went awfy quiet after the last comment. Laughable really, but thanks xx
Unfortunately, she will be back with another boatload of copy/paste and unintelligible comments on any and all empty comment spaces she can find.
That's true Austinstar, however for now we are safe because she's gone to do penance. Smack herself with a bush or something, like on the Davinci Code, as she said God had a pee problem? The naughty dear! Hell's escalator will be busy tonight.
CC: I'm back! Yes we ALL have "free will" but if against WORD, can't respect! Did Jesus?
Austin & Paula: I'm sorry ladies, but in order for you guys to insult me, I must first value your opinion(s)! Nice try though! (You too CC!)
SOmeone doth protest too much, me thinks. If there was no value placed on the comments, one would not bother responding to them......just saying.
Norine: I can understand the sentence we all have free will. However you keep writing in abbreviations, Now I am sure the big JC would not be happy at his words being shortnend.
Jacqui: I quite agree with you :)
CC: Thanks! I'm sure JC is "looking at my heart" and not as "man!" I Sam 16:7!
Have a Great Day!
I agree that religions often forget the laws of naturalism. That is when they become cults. People need to realize though that most consequences are experienced in this life. Morality is an issue for those clever enough to get away with bad behavior.
False logic - "Immortality in any form or shape, even for inanimate objects, is impossible for naturalists because everything will eventually end." - Immortality MEANS that there is no end! No beginning, no end - Infinity is real.
Hence: "for naturalists." (this is not my logic)
It sounds as though you are against naturalism.
Neither for nor against. I consider it a perspective: nothing more, nothing less.
Bran: So SAD! When u do rt do u not exp a "good feeling?" Where does that come fm? Righteousness=GOD (morals=innate) for we were "created in His image!" When baby born "clean (righteous) slate!" We teach "unrighteousness" if not WORD!
Exactly, Lawrence: "As for the Atheist, I'd say they can be moral, but what do they use to set their standards?" If an atheist abandons the idea of the afterlife, reconciling moral obligations with just the plane of humanity is a tricky task.
I'm an atheist and it's not tricky at all to be a good moral person. Why would you think that?
It is a puzzle to define 'good' and 'moral' within the atheist worldview because the lack of empirical evidence. There is no empirical evidence that suggests the existence of something being good or moral: same argument used against god's existence.
Oh I think the empirical evidence for morality is simply to do no harm to others.you know, like a doctor or.like a responsible human being. Doing harm to others is wrong, no matter your religion.
So self-defense is wrong? Does this include all life-forms as well or just humans? So harming vegetation is wrong? Using mouthwash to 'kill' bacteria is wrong? Slaughtering chickens, cows, and other livestock for food is wrong? Explain yourself.
If you ever studied Jainism (I'm pretty sure you haven't) then you would know that killing anything (even bacteria) is wrong. Self-defense is an instinct, not a "moral". & I'm talking about deliberate harm, not accidental.
So you went from being an Atheist to Jainist? You cannot use any worldview and religion to take what you like about it and then discard the rest! You are setting yourself up for contradictions! Define: 'right' and 'wrong' using empirical evidence.
Wow! You really need to READ the comment instead of assuming stuff. I did not say I was a Jainist. And ALL religion is taking bits and pieces of history and choosing what to believe and NOT believe - ie: cherry picking.
If you are an Atheist, as you said, then you need to play logic on your own playing field. Don't take a baseball onto the basketball court. Also, you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with Sartre, Mackie, & Kant: no god = no base for moral
No, it looks like I am arguing with YOU. Those other people are not commenting here. You really need a healthy dose of reality, don't you?
You argue with them through a concept called intertexuality (look it up). Ad hominem attacks are ineffective means for debate. Even atheist leaders, past and present, argue that morality was invented by man, not innate; hence why morals are relative.
Don't take this debate personally. Ideas grow during moments of challenge and opposition (Socratic Method). If I seemed too difficult it is only because I have a love for the game in which there are no determinable answers. Thank you for playing.
Because they were "invented" by man doesn't mean they are tied to religion in any easy, so what exactly is your point?
The point is "if an atheist abandons the idea of the afterlife, reconciling moral obligations with just the plane of humanity is a tricky task" and "as for the Athiest, I'd say they can be moral, but what do they use to set their standards?"
LOL, you guys!
Lawrence01 - "As for the Athiest, I'd say they can be moral, but what do they use to set their standards?" The Laws of Cause and Effect.
So if everything is reduced to causation then you would be arguing an ethics of consequentialism. We would run through an entirely new vein of questions and puzzles in which there would be no answers to-- again -- if we were to embark on this trek.
LFFL - that's the point. It's not really a different path, because all religions are originally based on Cause and Effect. They become cults when they stray from that - example, snake handlers.
My thought is that ALL FAITHS have the same root! Some have 'wandered' more than others but they have the same source, GOD! He gave us the morals, he gave the Athiest their (conscience) all morals have the same source GOD! Without him it doesn't work
LAW: Amen! That's why we shouldn't listen to what MAN has interpreted as "truth" but STUDY for ourselves for Satan operates thru "religion" to lose souls!
"Throwing stones," r u? I'm always willing to "Grow," BUT according to WORD! Show me where wrong? That shows "Love!" Would u allow 1 u "Love" continue in error? R u not 2 "Love" ALL! "Truth" is "Love!" Would 1 allow their child to cont in err?
Norine, there is a burning Flame inside U. If you want to swim, then enter the water. To love God, spiritual practices are indispensible. Prayer, silence, solitude, meditation; service to man and an imitation of Christ is needed. Much Love
Man: YES! "Fire shut up n my bones." (Jer 20:9) Do not quench (I Thess 5:19). "..an imitation of Christ" is "service to man" when teaching His Word! (Matt 28:19). WDJD? "Teach!"
You see my Sweet Norine,
You're a good person; a very special human deep down. Continue to Love. Follow the six things I mentioned. Feel no hate; do not consciously offend. You have God's Love and my good wishes. Peace.
Man: Those 6 r "your" desire (for me to be quite)! That's not what I've been asked to do by Jesus! He said "teach!" Who do I obey?
If I see ANY err, (you or another), I "Correct" by giving Scripture. If u don't accept, at least u KNOW!
Yet, atheists avoid doing bad things, generally because bad things aren't good things to do. Loving God doesn't prevent someone doing bad things - priests anyone?, so why would being without God make people more likely to do bad? It doesn't
Jacq: Just saying, Love of God, "More reason not to do bad things" vs laws or conscious! Being w/God less likely! Holy Spirit "guides" & righteousness instilled (convicted)! Whereas "self effort restriction" w/o God varies!
...Bur not out of love of their fellow man? Isn't that part of being a "good Christian"?
Zarling: Holy Spirit "EXCEEDS" righteousness man cannot comprehend! Holy Spirit is Jesus & "man" can't come close to His righteousness!
Have u read bible lately? Heard of "Love thy neighbor as thyself?" Or "If you love me you'll keep my words
Thanks for your answer Lisa. Thats my query - why would atheists be immoral merely for non-believe? Yet do good things, for the sake of doing them, not because they're being watched? I like your answer
Jacq: They r NOT! Taught beliefs against WORD! U should say "yet do SOME good things.." When Holy Spirit (Jesus) leads, do ALL "good things" whereas we MIGHT "sometimes!"
CW: Do u blv in God for that is not what HE said! We were "created in His image" not as "simple animals!" I agree "innate!" This is Satan's Kingdom, which is why I cont to "teach" His Word!
JN: When anointed with Holy Spirit, one exceeds "morality!" "..preach water & take wine." Not if according to "Gospel of Christ!" Water should b given for Communion & Scripture says so! Why "inner conflict" if no spirit fm GOD?
Thanks for your comment Jeremiah. Your final paragraph was part of my theory - along with the "if you are only doing it for God, what WOULD you be doing if He wasn't watching? Atheists do good, because they want to, not because they're being watched"
Jacq: The Q is irrelevant if u knew the function of the Holy Spirit! It "leads & guides 1" so why would it lead u to unrighteousness? See how "unlearned" n Scripture u guys are? Sounds really.......?
Quite excellent answer Jeremiah!
For the "unlearned in Scripture," it is what the "world" perceives as "excellent answer" but not TRUTH!
Your last sentence says it all! A good person is just being a good person. Religion or lack of religion has nothing to do with it.
I'm always a little confused about this blaming the entire population of an organization for an opinion an individual gives. Makes no sense. It's like saying all atheists are satanists.
What organization are you referring to?
Using the word organization loosely to refer to Christianity. Never heard atheists complain about what Muslims or Buddhist etc say.
Then you haven't been reading it right. Atheists do not believe in ANY god - Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or otherwise. ALL religion is flawed and there is no way to prove which religion is the RIGHT one! Because there is no evidence for a god or gods
What I'm saying is atheists only complain about what christians say. Never heard atheists telling a Muslim Allah doesn't exist. I'm ok with my beliefs. If you were confident with yours, you'd move on in your life. Obviously you have doubts.
It's so nice that you know what is in my head! Doubts? No, I do not have any doubts. Why must you ASSUME these things? I am an atheist and I am saying that Allah doesn't exist. There is no evidence for ANY god or gods.
To those who say religion bad, atheism good, look at the atheist Soviet Union and Red China. Not a whole lot there to brag about human rights wise. Neither was exactly a bastion of morality. People do bad things under any banner.
Who is saying that? Atheists are saying that no god exists. Atheists are unable to find this god. Believers are the ones associating "good" with this invisible god. To us, humans are responsible for their own goodness or badness. Not religion.
Austinstar, I was responding to Northeast Timber's concern that certain anti-religious persons would bring up all the bad done by religious. I was offering a balance to their argument.
I was doing the same thing.
Nope! Parents teach what they've learned yet we exp diff influences! We exp diff ppl o/s home & sometimes adhere to their beliefs + other.
As "preacher's kid," doctrine differs fm parents' so not "ingrained..."
Holy Spirit "tells" bible confi
I'm not saying they are, Glenda. I think you misunderstood the rest of the question. Good to hear it doesn't scare u.
".... and the beauty of what I do is that I make people strong and happy" from your Profile, Glenda. You "make people...?" You don't think "people" make their own ways in life without your intervention. Maybe you "help people to..."
I do have a follow up though - can you tell me where exactly in the modern times Christians are being victimized? Yr Freedom of Religion is not compromised by disagreement with yr faith or being asked to do a secular job under secular rules.
Jacqui....I flagged "Sarah" for SPAM.
Al: Why mean? I no what she meant "People r "inspired" by her writings!"
Jacq: "tell me where exactly in the modern times Christians are being victimized?" "For the people" (laws) r usually against God's Word! (Gen 6:5)
Norine - being denied the right to deny others their HUMAN rights, is not being victimised. It's preventing people from victimising others. Which God's word? Because if we took YR God's word, we'd be victimising all the others....
Jacq: What u r not taking into consideration (as the world doesn't) GOD'S WORD is FIRST v HUMAN rights! If "laws" conflict w/WORD, victimizing GOD (Blvr)! What "man" wants is "irrelevant!" If WORD "victimizes" 1, they err!
What you aren't taking into consideration Norine is that maybe Allah says different, or Buddha, or Shiva. What makes yrs the only? Can I suggest u write hubs 2 get yr message out rather than messages here on questions - you'd be taken more seriously.
Jacq: It doesn't matter if I'm not taken seriously that's not the point! Just spreading truth in His WORD! Read my resp to ur Q "Why is context relevant..." WORD given!When 1's "self effort" is gone,1 will be as Einstein & return to GOD not other
I think you've read Einstein's quote wrong. Why I tell you to write hubs is because you can then get your point across more clearly (And not be seen as harassing..which u often are in yr haste to 'spread the word').
Jacq: U google Einstein & God since I can't comprehend!! ALL will come 1 day!
I'm not trying to be rude or harass but give Word which some may have never heard! I pray no one is lost for hell is eternity! Lev 19:17 TRUTH r NO "love!"TRUTH hurt
Norine - I did google it -in his final letters Einstein dismissed religion and god as superstition (like believing blak cats r bad luck), and the Bible as 'children's tales' - he was at most an Agnostic. He spoke on God, but it was not supporting u.
Jacq: "I" have nothing that needs "supporting!" I speak WORD! I guarantee you will remember GOD in that "final hour," as did Einstein!
Jacqui, you are absolutely, 100% spot on. Unfortunately those in the throes of religious fanaticism can rarely see logic.
Norine - Google it yourself - Einstein denouced God until his death. His letters were denouncing religion as a supersistson, and children stories. Look up his "God" - it is NOT what you think....but, I suspect I'm talking to a brick wall anyway
Jacq: Well, the inevitable will come then determine if it's a LIE! Unbelievers can continue for they do have "free will" but when they stand before "the judgment seat of Christ," He will say, "U didn't listen" then u will KNOW!
Funny how most of the 10 are no longer followed - adultery, Murder (death penalty...killing to show killing is wrong??). But I do see what you are talking about. Thanks for sharing.
Helen: We are moving more in that direction (" Imagine living in a world where people can do what they think is right,") for this is Satan's Kingdom & "man" estab "laws" to appease "men!" Man's heart is evil so evil laws estab! (Gen 6:5;8:21)
Problem is "Confucius" was "man" and "The Gospel of Christ" is ALL "Spiritual!" Who'd u rather blv, "man" or "GOD?" The Catholic Church is in err! That's why we have to "STUDY" HIS WORD, not Catholics'!
Yet, we don't even know is the Christian god the real god
Unfortunately, whatever the word of God might have been, the greatest error was giving it to mankind. There may have been a beautiful message, but it was lost the moment man got ahold of it and began twisting it for his personal agenda.
That is why I like Confucius view, he believe the most important thing is don't harm others, betray your country and society and as long as they did that, respect them, even if they are not moral, Only persuade moral on people, never force.
INteresting Peter. I have no issue with religion or Catholicism. Confucius was a wise man. As an aside - interesting how several different branches of Christianity disagree with the others being "Christian" enough...same god, + still don't agree! Heh
Pete: I do! Try & find out!
Shan: Holy Spirit will reveal ALL!
Jacq: It's called "maturing or "Growing" in Christ!" Babes (less study/belief/faith) disagree w/maturity!
Norine you all believe in the same God, you are all branches of Christianity - Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, Protestants, JW - yet you all argue over who is actually Christian. It's not mature - it's childish
I believe that every religion is praying to the same diety, just calling it different names with the message askewed to fit the different agendas of those who first received it. And everyone's going to feel mighty silly when the time comes
Jacq: Immature to unbelievers, but II Tim 3:16 says The Word is for "reproof!"
Zarl: "And everyone's going to feel mighty silly when the time comes." Everyone? You meant "unbelievers?"
I too was raised to fear atheists. Having surveyed other religions, I have discovered all teach empathy. Some religions are atheist; all that means is they don't believe one supernatural power controls everything, but still subject to Cause & Eff
The only thing keeping an atheist from being amoral is fear of consequences at the hands of the secular government. If there is no God there is no good or bad, only rules (laws) and consequences for violating those rules.
DW - no, not quite. Atheists can be, and many are, inherently moral. Doing good 4 goods sake, not Gods nor laws. THere R laws that could b seen as immoral - ie death penalty killing another 2 prove killing is wrong? Many atheists r anti-death penalty
Again I say "Unbelievers" exp "good feeling" when doing right also! Why? Morals r innate! We r connected to "righteousness" (GOD) & why we exp that "good feeling!"
Not if a "believer" in GOD!
Lovesamrat - thanks for your answer.
Lov: "Before bible put together?" GOD="the 1st and the last"=CREATOR! If "Believer," dates (man-made) don't matter! When bible compiled DOES NOT matter for He ALWAYS WAS/IS/WILL BE!
Yes, "religion" created by Satan (man) to lose souls! Jn 10:10
Because "unbelief" limits "proof" of GOD and is why you THINK some "follow dictates w/o question."
I tottaly differ from your opinion. Atheists become more in tune with humanity when they give up the notion of religion. We no longer seek out invisible dieties to save us from ourselves. We are humans!
As I mentioned elsewhere, religion grew out of human kind's need for moral values, which need arose when we went from being hunting/gathering tribes to living in agricultural groups that eventually became cities and towns.Religion sprang from there.
Kyle: It is "why our society is falling..." Most r confusing "religion" w/GOD & there's a difference! Religion=organized beliefs v GOD="Spiritual!" Morals (innate) r fm GOD not "religions!" We ALL get "good feeling" when doing rt="Connected!"
"life have a preset and true value " True - GOD! 1 Hubber said they get "a good feeling" when doing right! Why? Bcuz our spirits r "connected" to "righteousness" Who is GOD!
Liz: I've left too! Yes, "natural trait" from GOD (innate)! Yes, "some people it takes a while to flourish" for they rely on "SELF" which He allows (free will) limiting GOD!
Prime example of one who doesn't KNOW the FUNCTION of the HOLY SPIRIT who is ALL LOVE! I don't KNOW other "religions," but Disciples of Christ are anointed with HOLY SPIRIT which equals LOVE!
RL: Keep "listening" to that "inner feeling" (GOD) which tells you right fm wrong! We're "created in His Image" is why you have that "feeling" for u r "connected" to that SPIRIT!
They say women are exploited over and over, but you see women taking money everyday for showing their body off whether it be Hollywood or pornography! So which is it. It's like the black's not liking the "N" word but using it on each other w/o fail!
For A to exploit B, two things must be satisfied. B must be at a disadvantage to A who has the upper hand. A must then use the disadvantage of B for it's own gain and to the detriment of B.
So Norine acknowledging holy spirit is not enough, God grants his gift , if you are not right, not truthful not peaceful, or peacemaker, then you will not receive his gift, but you can receive a spirit that is not the Father's.
Gin: The "N" word is term of endearment w/in culture. Outside=derogatory! Like saying "What's up bro" or What's up "N?" When others use culture perceives as "slavery" or "degrading!"
RL: Yes, it's all about "the money" no matter who is exploited!
Thanks for your answer. Not quite what I was asking.
You're right Pande! He "KNOWS!" They will 2!
SPIRIT (GOD)+spirit (man)="righteousness" (morals or "good feeling")= GOD for we're "created in his image;" therefore, "INNATE!"
Whether 1 wants to "believe" or not, WE R CONNECTED to the CREATOR!
I also believe that morals are not something that still needs to be taught. You should yourself know if you're already stepping on someone's foot.
Troy: This Q comes fm "unbeliever" who doesn't have any idea what Holy Spirit is! Trying to explain "Spirit" to "unblvr" like trying to explain "evolution" to "blvr!" They rely on "self" but we KNOW GOD is Higher than man!
Thank you Troy, that is the correct answer
Based on the same with relationships, if your children just did things out of fear
You would not have a relationship based on love but fear, Even in a husband and wife relationship that would be abuse.
K&T: Well if one "yearns to do the right things in life," why not do what IS WRITTEN? (Eph 4:4-6) ALL "ONE" who is GOD (Jehovah) whose Name is JESUS! (Phil 2:9-11) Either He LIED or 1 doesn't "yearn!"
My parents "originated" fm Baptist! Do you think I'm one today? Why can't president also change? I don't see Muslims in White House for worship service or it would've made "headlines!"
If Obama's a Muslim then why is he criticized for having attended the controversial Trinity United Church of Christ when he lived in Chicago?
You said "he was raised in three Muslim Countries and that's all he know's" which contradicts your statement re" Trinity United Church of Christ!" Are u saying "that's all he knows" or beliefs in line w/ "Trinity United Church of Christ?"
The statement "I believe in what I want to believe in, and nothing will change that" goes against Scripture! (Prov 3:5) Not how YOU perceive, but what IS WRITTEN in His Word! Did Peter not "succumb" to Paul's revelation under New Covenant re: circu?
I believe in God. I believe in miracles. I have never been a perfect Christian, but I love God, and would die for God, country, and for my family. God saved my life when I was a police officer. God saved my life many times. God helped me save lives.
Star439, humans judgments are imperfect,
God's is always reliable and just. I am happy you share your faith , this up builds others. Thank you.
Star: I love you for that & so does He! Study! (II Tim 2:15)! Gal 1:6-9 "After the Cross" is where we should live today! Please Study His Word (not man/religion) if you love the Lord!
IM: Morals "innate" for we were "created in His image!" "Doing wrong deeds" (flesh) GROWING into SPIRITUAL (likeness of Christ) II Cor 3:18! Religion doesn't "spare fm neg deeds" but Holy Spirit by STUDY (GROWING) & blving His Words!
Glen: As stated, "unbelievers" foundation of morals came fm GOD as u state "..the 10 commandments in the Christian Bible might be a good starting point for the instruction of children." (Gal 3:24-25)
JQ: I covered "BOTH" God looking & Blvrs r Gr
If you check your history, morality came from religious belief. It didn't come out of the goodness of man's heart. God was talking to men back then too.
Spirit: True! How can 1 be "made in the image of God" & w/o morals when He is "Righteousness?" If one doesn't know this, they don't believe there's a GOD! SAD! Unblvrs blv blvrs do right bcuz "God is Watching" & don't no Holy Spirit's func
There were moral cultures well before there was religion. Hammurabi's Code has punishment for rape, murder 100s of years before the Christian religion (and their God) had anything similar...(and God condones murder in some cases....moral?)
Jacq: When 1 is a blvr, "GOD created heavens & earth" so how could ANYTHING exist b4 Him?
ANYTHING that impeded the coming of Christ had to go! THY WILL be done!
If u created robot,became disobedient=destroy! If we're disobedient, destroy!
Nice cop-out - there is proof Earth is older than Bible claims. You also can't explain away the condoning of incest, murder, genocide, infanticide, etc in the Bible. Hellfire threats or death for Disobedience is abuse, not love.
Jacq: Where is that book w/prophesies? Tell me! If can't then something is amiss! If ANYTHING stood n way of Christ coming, MOVE! Mama love u but disobedient, punished (mine felt like death), but loved!
Norine true the spirit of God's power works,
But people still do wrong knowing of the spirits power, that is the very reason of the meaning to Blasphemy. Judas walked and even ate with Jesus did that stop him from betraying God's son. NO !
K&T: Back to Judas? Thank GOD for Judas or we wouldn't have "GRACE!" Jesus told Judas to "GO, quickly!" If Jesus TELLS YOU, what do u do? He wouldn't tell u wrong! Scripture HAD TO BE FULFILLED! Then He went into grave & who knows?
Jpark, you said occult was even a large number of people, the definition says the opposite, cult
noun , often attributive
: a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many
See! That's why 1 should listen to "MESSAGE" not "messenger!" U "look" @ Judas w/"carnal eyes" not realizing w/o him, NO "Grace!" Yes, I get angry (as Jesus did when He tore up Synagogue when selling in temple)! Angry @1 for not STUDYING n SPIRIT!
Yet, cultures with morals existed before religion or at least before Christianity - Which is the religion most often used to say 'see Morals from God'. Maybe the evolution was into religion from those cultures?
I disagree, Oz. It would be more likely that religion evolved out of a set of principles and practices that suited the community and those who wanted control over their community.
these kinds of opinions invariably start to resemble conspiracy theories so they are hard to take seriously.
Oz - since cultures existed before religion, it's not really a conspiracy theory. It actually makes more sense to develop a religion around the good parts of society already established
Bcuz MOST consider "when written" (history), apparently "non-believers! 'The earth was w/o form" (Gen 1:2). Hypocrites or unblvr?
Norine - cultures existed prior to religion. Genesis is a "creation story" - an explanation for those of the time as to how we possibly could have got here - there are thousands of different ones from many cultures/religions. Science states different
Jacq: Either u blv "science" or "GOD!" "ALL THINGS" were created by GOD if "Believer!" Until 1 blvs that, disagreements will continue! Science continues to display 1's "self effort" in finding facts! Can 1 save "self?" The inevitable is coming!
There were cultures before your religion came into existence. How do you explain dinosaurs? Fossils 100,000s yrs old? When the earth is supposedly 6000yrs old? Yr garbled answer still doesn't disprove science. Just that u r against thinkig for self
Jacq: One doesn't blv Bible if they thk GOD didn't create heavens & earth before dinos,etc. Man arrived @ those dates! I blv GOD rather than man. Give another book in which prophesies have been fulfilled in our lifetime? How could this be?
Adam + Eve created on day 6 - no mention of dinos in bible. Not long enough to explain the existence of 100,000yr old fossils.
Nostradamus' prophecies - yet as a Catholic he was denouced as evil by his own faith..
Jacq: Blvrs blv GOD created "ALL" mention or no mention. If dinos not mentioned & bible written "after" must be irrelevant for salvation!
Biblical prophesies by Prophets in Scripture? What other book has as many, if any?
The truth is actually quite the other way around, religion came about as a result of rules on morality handed down from generation to generation until their origin was lost and they came to be treated as commandments from above.
The legal Code of Ur-Nammu was written around 4,000 years ago so a lot of religions probably got their rules from it. Unlike the Bible, it recognized rape as a serious crime against a person rather than as a property crime against her father.
Babylon is the Mother of most deities and mixture of many pagan beliefs.
These existed before Jesus, but when pure worship was cleaned up while Jesus was, present and his disciples,the oppostates
Infiltrated after their death. That is why it' mix
K&T: R u a "BELIEVER?" "...These existed before Jesus.." Why would u say this? NOTHING "existed before JESUS (aka GOD)! Explain "Let US..?"(Gen 1:26) Explain Rev 22:13? "FIRST & LAST?"
U listen to "man" (dates) again & they'll be the d
Norine where is the name Jesus in the old testement, show me . Prove with scriptures.
And quit judging people, You act out of harmony with Jesus purpose trying to look self righteous by condemning others.
You mis the mark of Jesus purpose.
STOP acting like u don't KNOW! Is 9:6 for starters!
Again, the WORD "judges" which I give!
Was Jesus "in harmony" w/Scribes & Pharisees? U KNOW just trying to discredit His WORD but ALL "will stand before the judgment seat of Christ!"
Morals r "..dictated by religion." NO! Religion="man made!" You meant by GOD?
Thanks for your answer. My issue is - if people are ONLY doing good because they think God is watching - are they really doing good, or just selfishly making sure they 'get in' to Heaven? (not doing good for the other, just for their own benefit)
Jacq: By the same token, r u "just doing good bcuz the law is watching?"
Nope. I do good, because its the good thing to do. Law just happens to agree the majority of the time.
Jacq: Yes, it "feels" good! Why? Your "spirit" is temp connected w/GOD (righteousness)! This is the feeling ALL will acquire w/ the Holy Spirit!
Not just mumbo jumbo! Wonderful! Feeling associated w/"roller coaster ride" when worshiping! PROOF
I think that you'll find I meant it's scary what a 'believer' would be capable of if the ONLY reason they do good is cause they think God is watching, not because they think it's the right this to do.
Otherwise, thanks for your answer
@Jacqui. By the same logic, isn't it scary that the non religious only do good because society is watching? I mean, morals dictated by society are no different, according to your logic. What would non religious people do if not for society?
Could be. I do good, cause it's the right thing to do, not cause anyone or anything is watching. But, it's us without God that are often called immoral - yet many do good for goodness's sake, not for God or society. I do see where you are coming from
@Jacqui. I am glad you can see what I meant. Thank you.
Then there are my wise Dad's words and manner of teaching. We heard all the time: "Do the right thing, BECAUSE, it's the right thing to do." Pretty simple, wouldn't you agree? and TRUE!
Paula: Yes, I agree but bcuz a "believer" statistics gives even more "confirmation" that God's Words r true! IT Works! (Proof)
Jacq: I got the gest! Covered both "God watching" (u err) & "man watching" (We're "Growing" may not "APPEAR" OK to ma
Norine.It matters not 2 me that you "agree." U R so filled w/pride, anger, self-righteousness,fairy tales & ancient quotes, I PREFER U not comment to me at all.U R pathetic.I pity you. Preach UR self silly,but NOT to me! Find a mountain somewhere
Paula, "a million people with a million shovels could move a mountain," but in Norine's case I think you might at least need one bulldozer!
P: When giving WORD all who err run! Welcome to the "world!"
Al: There u go again! WORD says "If u have "faith" the grain of a mustard seed u can move mountains!" No need for "bulldozer!" Use that "mind!"
"Studying" v "arguing" shows "immaturit
Alan..sigh.. relating to the "Q", what is most SCARY of all, is the outrageous fanaticism, narrow-mindedness & ignorant boldness directed at ALL who choose to use intelligence, common sense & realism. I've resorted to listing 50 uses for a sh
Brilliant r u? "It was recently revealed that, toward the end of his life, Albert Einstein wrote a letter in which he dismissed belief in God as superstitious and characterized the stories in the Bible as childish."(Einstein & God) And then,THE E
Just because one is not religious and still moral does not mean they do it because society is watching. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Some of us simply lead good lives because we have a conscience and don't lack empathy.
By the same token, we don't do good bcuz God is watching! Our spirits have been chg'd exceeding "man's" perception of righteousness! The Holy Spirit (Jesus) guides us! U no Guide!
Reason man's perception conflicts w/others' re: morality!
That is why in the example of Jesus the son of God as the disciples walked and believe him to be. The missiah did they still do wrong , in the end Judas betrayed , Peter denied, yet they tasted and witness the power of God through his son Jesus.
K&T: U still LIMIT the POWER of GOD? I Tim 3:16 says "GOD was manifested in the flesh..." Did HE LIE? Explain He wasn't when IT IS WRITTEN? U see the Word "MYSTERY?"
GET SPIRITUAL! (Jn 4:24)!
Ex: U blv ventriloquist but not "GOD?" Why LIMI
Isaiah 9:6 says what he will be, not his name , list the name of Jesus in the old testement. That was the request, not what you listed.
Who else is "The Mighty GOD," "The Everlasting Father"...? Jn 14:9 JESUS SAID "Have I been this long w/u & yet thou hast not known me..?"
It seems u MUST prove u're rt when IT IS WRITTEN not me rt & u wrong (irrelevant) but WORD!
Norine that is in the New Testament, I was clear request Old testement, you refuse to answer because you have a ego that you have to be right .
I only respond to you to speak truth, but your pride is more important then truth.
You argue over words
If u say Is 9:6 LIED YOU R A LIAR & THE TRUTH is NOT IN YOU! A child is born & will be called "....." Wasn't that Child (Jesus) born or did Prophet LIE? You're "ego tripping" & would rather call bible a LIE than be wrong!
Norine, Isa 9:6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder:and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God,The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Where is his name ? Jes
See how "UNSPIRITUAL" u r? Who else have ALL of these GLORIES, ROLES, TITLES? Know u so little of Scripture? I thought u knew WORD! Blaspheming against Holy Spirit is "unforgivable!" Your "ego" will b ur downfall! (Lk 16:14-31) Did that LIE 2?
Norine you judge me , and even tell me I am going to hell.
We'll I am Glad that God, and Jesus is nothing like you. they both are merciful and loving , you lack those qualities from your dialog.
That is why we do not agree.
Baby "I" don't have a heaven or hell to put u in & didn't write Scripture just "repeat!" His WORD judges, not me! I didn't say "Let him b accursed" Jesus did! Who wrote the WORD (JESUS aka GOD)? Eph 4:4-6 says 1 SPIRIT who r "they?" Trinity?
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