What is the agenda of either side?
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Jacq: I hear "respectful?" Jesus would have NEVER "fulfilled law" if "respectful!" How do u chg 1 or tell TRUTH (which dff fm "religion") being "respectful?" TRUTH "hurts!" Heb 4:12 "...sharper than a two edged sword..."
Jesus sat with lepers, comforted prostitutes, conveyed himself with respect. If only his more extreme followers were the same, they might have more luck.
Thanks for the best answer.
Jacq: He did & said "Go & sin no more!" (REBUKED)! You'd love for WORD to be "respectful," (respect "ONE'S" sin) but TRUTH doesn't "respect" SIN!
Did ur mom "respect" ur "wrongdoings" (SIN)?
Wake UP "world!"
But he still respected the person no matter the sin. I'm no Bible expert but I'm pretty sure Jesus was very much about forgiveness, even while being tortured and executed.
Yes, due to their "ignorance," as is today, He said, "Forgive them for they know not what they do!" And He did love the sinner, yet "hated" the sin as do I! I love ALL but do not "respect" their "opinion(s)" yet ALL r entitled (free will)!
Yet Nor, your judgement is sin as you are doing Gods job as though u know his will. All sin is equal is it not? So why see fit to judge others on theirs? Hating the sin is forming judgement on a person - Let each answer to their own sin, but not 2 u
Jacq: Doing what's ASKED! Jn 7:24; I Cor 6:3! Seems "harsh" if don't KNOW Scripture! (Heb 4:12). Judging 1's "actions" is not judging 1's spirit, only GOD can do that! REPEAT what HE said is my job then HE 'judges," not "me!"
Haha Jacqui. I thought the days of scratched vinyl and stuck in a grove were over. We will never have the last word. Waste of time as ever.
Alan: If 1 has a "belief" PROVE! So say MY JESUS (HIS WORD)! II Tim 3:16!
We'll see, Nor. Assuming yr sin is less when all sin is equal is arrogance.
Alan - I know. Trying to be nice, respectful + attempt intellgent discussion rather than having verses thrown at me...may get there some day, may not. Can't hurt to try!
Norine, if there is a "heaven," and I am ever permitted to enter it, being the evil man that I am, then I will pray to god you are not there....you would turn it into a hell for me! A place without rampant christians would be nice.
Jacq: There's no definition of "sin" but GOD'S (WORD)! "Whatever is not of "faith" is sin" (Rm 14:23). "Faith comes by hearing & hearing by WORD..(Rm 10:17)
Alan: BELIEVERS won't care whose there, they'll PRAISE GOD 24/7! Amen!
That would make one hell of an incestuous gathering. Noisey too. Not my idea of a heaven!
Alan: Why do u (unblvr) have an "idea" of a heaven? If 1 blvs no God, then no heaven! Or do I hear differently?
Have you no sense of humour?
Yes, and we are all sinners and all sin r equal in Gods eyes -including yrs. You go about telling people to repent as though u r free of sin or as tho yrs is less than the sin you are rallying against - be it homosexuality or anything else.
That raises a good point, Jacquie.
Norine, in which department does your major sin reside? Sexuality? Sounds like there might be a few secrets which make you so up-tight about the "sins" of homosexuality. Does this feed your Beliefs?
Hmmm, Alan, you could be on to something. What is it that they say about the most vehement homophobes? :) Someone either 'doth protest too much" not to be, or has a fixation. I'll continue to attempt conversation, tho, see what happens!
Guys: Y'all STOP "playing the devil's advocate!" GOD sent ppl will NEVER be defeated by Satan! He's ALREADY LOST! READ! Teach=judge w/WORD, not what 1 (I) thinks! GOD'S WORD ONLY!
After talking to unblving Hubbers, homosexuality exist in MOST
But why the fixation for you, Norine? There are many more sins commuted by both the believing and unbeleiving - adultery, idolatry etc. Why fixated on homosexuality?
What utter rubbish Norine! Come out of the closet....the World awaits you. No time like the present. At the moment of death Tomorrow Never Comes. Live it up, Luv!
Jacq: My "fixation" is JESUS but unblvrs on HubP seek blvrs to harass & intimidate due to exc knowledge (fun) n which I discovered MOST=homo & told TRUTH which hit sore spot! So here we r!
Al: What a WASTE!
You've still never proved that most atheists are gay, nor that most gay people are atheist with any stats (PEW is small number). So yr statements re: most do appear to be a coverup 4 yr fixation. I'm sorry, but it comes across like yr hiding somethin
I can't think what the waste might be. My body will be recycled into very useful biproducts when it gets composted, as is my wish.
RL: Name calling isn't childish?
Jacq: I've provided! "Reprobate mind!" Sorry! Rm1:21-32
Alan: UNBELIEVERS "can't" insult me! SATAN has already been defeated!
WORD is ALL I have & ur unvalued "opinions" r irrelevant!
TRUTH hurts? Heb 4:1
Homosapien means human. If that's what you mean by name calling. It was a joke meant to lighten and counter the word "homo" which is a derogatory term for gay.
RL: I know. Thought you were using in derogatory term for all "human" (flesh=sin) is derogatory to me! Gay (happy) seems more derogatory to me. What's "gay" about having "A Cross to Bear?"
Norine, unintelligent self-brainwashing. Repeating your few selected texts from your book trying to convince yourself. Yes you have an audience of relatively intelligent people. You are laughable yet pathetic imho.
Alan: Well, I'm not the only 1 who "believes" n God! 75%? "Intelligent?" Yet remain in flesh (thinking)? Again, SPIRIT ABOVE!
Let's "see" who gets the LAST "laugh?"
The one who laughs last is the one that's seen a funnier meaning.
You are funny Norine. That's at least one attribute under your belt.
Yet you aren't as vehement about other just as equal sins, so it comes across as though u may have an issue yrself. Provided? The research u provided proves nothing but that some LGBT r less religious, bt doesn't prove yr claim at all
I find this adamant rejection of anything human as being "sinful," as coming from a very sick mind. Norine's is not the only one. Several others in this thread have displayed equally sick notions. Sad, when there so much beauty to be seen.
Alan: And "we" TRULY see the "beauty!" Sin free is "beauty!"
What other manipulative organ does a human possess but "the mind" fm which sinful actions (EVIL) derive because of the lust (not only sex) of the flesh?
I Jn 2:16
Lately as ever, I quit this thread.
Norine you and your silly stuff are a waste of time.
Your "god" continues to exist only in your mind.
Your attitude of not being able to enter into any discussion without invoking that god makes it impossible. Bye.
Alan: Why don't u come up w/another book written BEFORE bible w/as many accurate prophecies as the bible, then u can say "NO GOD" IF u only use "reasoning & logic?"
Bye. Good luck!
Jacqui, you are welcome for best answer selection. And, your respectful responses throughout this thread has been noted. Thank you for that!
Alan: If u ONLY KNEW Scripture! I Cor 3:18 says (we) ".. chg from glory to glory..." into HIS likeness! If we're "changing," must not be "perfect" yet! GOD "looks @ heart," whereas "man" looks @ "actions!" GOD "will judge" ALL (even me)!Jer23:1
Alan. You make a good point except for one thing. The real believer knows that God sees everything and they might hide it from their neighbors but not from God!
The one who really believes knows that hiding this stuff is ultimately a waste of time!
@Law: Amen! Therefore, who CARES what "man says or sees" for GOD "LOOKS @ "THE HEART!"
So agree with this!
Dan: I just told unblvr this! Ex: If 1's "mind" tell him to go n opposite direction fm planned & avoided danger=GOD but when 1 tells ppl of exp, no "proof" to them but u KNOW bcuz "experienced!"
Same w/blvr telling unblvr="no proof" but REAL!
Here is the problem, Danny, with the term "non-believer", it has no meaning without being put in context and given a definition. Am I a NB of the monotheistic God ...yes; am I a NB of a spiritual God ... no. From my perspective, you are the NB.
Do they know the ability to operate in the "Supernatural realm?" They limit themselves studying man rather than connecting to Power given by Holy Spirit!
Low intelligence? Carnal v. Spiritual (God)? Get real!
Science nos spiritual v physical win!
Firstly, you're asking me to get real while comparing intelligence with supernatural power. Ahem... really.
Secondly, as I made explicitly clear, the answer was purely objective, without judgement.
Again, spiritual v physical=No Comparison!
"Power" in Spirit v physical ("knowledge")!
Objective="based on FACTS rather than feelings or opinions" (merriam dict)
U said "FACT"=blvr="lower intell?" Get Real!
Spirit v physical=Spirit=POWER!
Google "objective opinion".
I did not say fact equals whatever so that's just bull,
Because you didn't understand what I meant by objective, you responded in defense of believers. If intelligence is no comparison to spirit, why are you comparin
RL: Just saying, "spirit" more POWERFUL than "physical ability" & proven by ur science! The "supernatural" realm is ABOVE "physical" & can do more! Why argue?
1 day ALL will "see" when they "grow up" SPIRITUALLY, if they "humble themselve
Not arguing. I believe thers reason 2 think ther might b other realms or planes of reality besides the 1 we perceive with our senses. The diff btwn u an I is I speak from personal experience, an even then its mostly stated as opinion.
RL: I have also exp'd what IS WRITTEN in WORD as TRUE! Spiritual realm=have placed hands on one & the POWER OF GOD released upon him. LIE? NOPE! He "works" thru us IF one "believes!" TRY HIM for "PROOF!"
What have you experienced that is written in the Bible that can only be explained by the supernatural?
RL: MY GOD! Too much! His POWER works thru me "EVERYDAY" revealing "supernatural!" Atheist "unbelief," HE told me where to go 2 "show" proof! "PROPHECIES" n Bible! GOD tells EVERYTHING "when connected!" BEYOND "man's" thinking! HE "leads &
So the Nobel prize winning believers (and there have been quite a few!) are of 'lower intelligence' than the non believing ones?
That sounds to me like a very dangerous and offensive statement!
If "intelligence" is the ability to say, "I don't know," then look for answers, then listen to and consider the answers, and come up with possibilities, before making judgment...and reaching a reasonable conclusion....judge yourself on this, first.
Alan: Who "..come up with possibilities..reaching a reasonable conclusion..?" U (man)?
That's the PROBLEM!
"Lean not to OWN understanding" (Prov 3:5) rather let the HOLY SPIRIT "lead & guide" then CORRECT "understanding" or "revelation!"
" MY GOD! Too much! His POWER works thru me...."Norine, If your utterances here are the "power of Him," then god help us all! If "His" intelligence is limited by yours, that accounts for all the problems he has made for us in this world.
Lawrence hebb. My opinion is a generalization hence the word "generally".
Betwn 1901 & 2000 nonbelievers have won between 4.7 & 8.9 % in chem, med, phy & 35% lit.
No go do ur own res abot relig pop stats between 1900 & 2000.
Alan: So speaks Satan who "looks @ flesh" & not as GOD! Child, academics nothing! Take it w/u when u die! Only 1's spirit counts! U look @ wrong thg! Look @ MSG not msgr! Both u & RL go read those "accurate prophecies" n bible, then talk to m
You continue to talk rubbish Norine. You are making it all up as you go along. If you see me as representing Satan you had better not even speak with me. Might steal that precious soul of yours.
Alan: I don't worry about Satan for my soul is "hidden beneath His Wings" (Ps 57:1)
Why don't u study bible prophecies then say "No God?" Goggle book with "most accurate prophecies" & see GOD has spoken!
You know Norine at the end of the day if you were hanging off a cliff I would pull you up, and I'm just going rest in the assumption that you'd put down your Bible if just for the moment and do the same for me.
RL: The diff between u & I, I would tell u BEFORE "hanging off cliff" of danger! Don't u get it by now?
Study those prophecies! Google! What other book does this written BEFORE bible? What man has such accuracy?
The thing is I'm not smart enuf to validate to my own mind everything written in the Bible as true. Yet you might be surprised to know that I say the Our Father about every other day, not knowing if there is a God. And I'm not afraid to admit it.
RL: I love u for the "Our Father!" THE CREATOR asks "Lean not to ur own understanding" (Prov 3:5) & "relinquish self to HIM" (II Chron 7:14)! Flesh & material "pass away" but we (in Christ) keep Growing & Growing (II Cor 3:18) into HIS li
So you do have a pleasant side!
RL Pleasant=GOD=LOVE=morals! Human=Evil heart (Gen 6:5) to which I cannot be "pleasant!" Was GOD (aka Jesus) "pleasant" when "rebuking sin?" (Matt 21:12)
When we "agree" on Him & His Word, "Nothing BUT!"
Norine, are you human?
RL: Human w/a "spirit" trapped in this "sinful flesh" as we ALL are.
"Thoughts" need to be brought under subjection & sometimes u guys take me there w/your insultreous minds (EVIL)!
Join me="Benefits" fm "Our Father
I am going to UCLA to study, so that I can enter Law School, and after I become a criminal attorney, I will run to be a judge. I get all As and yet I believe in God. What career are you in?
Norine, Why did your god make "sinful flesh" in the first place? Was that "loving"?
Esoteric do not misunderstand to believe is important ,like now you believe that if you write on your device I will communicate with others,you believe that first before you actually did the action.
Believe also plays a part in what we feel is proof
What I have is a reasonable expectation (not belief) that this reply will b available 2 others 2 read bc that is the the way hubpages, computers, the Internet r intended 2 work. What I "believe" is their is a universal God, I just can't prove it.
Mara: BA Psych/Hrs twd Theology Masters/Realtor/Retired Govt employee so what? Carnal v Spiritual=Nothing! MY: For PRAISE fm BLVRS! PROOF=What other book? Provide?
Of yes! It's "answerable!"Can u provide a book written BEFORE bible w/as many fulfilled prophecies? If not, there's your "proof!" Ex:Has ur "mind" told u to go 1 way u hadn't plan'd an u avoided danger. GOD! Proof 2 u not others!
The problem, Norine, is that the Bible is not proof of anything either. It is a compilation of thoughts of earthly men, manipulated by the Catholic Church to tell a message THEY want told, not your God's
To myeso, your question makes no sense to saywhy did God make sinful flesh.
Is like saying some one makes a perfect cake, but the people you give it to throws it on the floor,
So the question is why would these people use their free will wrong .
Somehow I conflated two of Norine's comments. What I meant to refer to is "(GOD=HOLY=LOVE) while the "universe" (world=sin=evil)!" My statement still stands. What the above says is since God created the world, He must have created sin and evil.
I still do not see God creating evil, or sin,
As an example , you bring a child into the world as loving parents, you teach your child it is wrong to steal and lie,and the child grows to be an adult and decides they will lie and steal, who's fault
Then you disagree with Norine's comment that World = Sin = Evil?
MY: No one can find a book. Proof for blvrs! WORD (Holy Spirit) directs path (Jn 14:26)!
K&T WRONG! Is 45:7 He "created good & evil!'
Problem MY, u don't BELIEVE which prevents "PROOF!"
She can't disagree or DEFY SCRIPTURE (AS USUAL)!
Norine , the scriptures is very clear ,
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man:
Jas 1:14 (inticed by his own desire )
Norine says "Problem MY, u don't BELIEVE which prevents "PROOF!"" BUT "Proof" requires an observation that looks same 2 all observers, logic based on premises which reasonable people agree is true, or mathematics. "Belief" plays no part, does it?
In this case ones beliefs can be wrong,but that does not mean the truth is missing , one can be given wrong instructions to travel a journey, it will lead them nowhere but a dead end.
The real map read right can get you to your destination of truth.
K&T: I gave WORD in Is "GOD created good & evil" but u call a LIE saying "inticed by own desire" (WORD)? Really? You are LOST K&T not BELIEVING what IS WRITTEN! Being self righteous (taught) is path to "dead end!"
MY: U need HELP! U blv
If the WORD of GOD separates, then what? LOVE=TRUTH! Would u tell "Johnny" (or others) a LIE! If so, not LOVE! Get real!
Norine, why is it that only a handful of people on earth in all time have ever actually practiced 90% of what Jesus preached? What does that say about alleged Christians today?
My: Have not been told TRUTH which is to exercise "FAITH" to realize "results" from this "Spiritual journey!"
It's not the sheep, it's the shepherds! Sheep follow ANYTHING if they thk it's fm a "legitimate" source! Don't realize JESUS made ass tal
Myeso, I do not agree with Norine believe.
True she believes in Jesus , but she does not believe in his Father spoken at Psalm 83:18 and other scriptures. Rejecting the Father is rejecting who he sent his Son Jesus. She believes Jesus is God .
If you scrutinize all of the Gospels and other contemporary documents, or listen to the lecturer I did, even Jesus didn't believe he was God. ..
And Norine, who is left to tell your "truth"? You certainly can't trust any of the clergy, can you?
"even Jesus didn't believe he was God?" Really? What about Jn 10:30???
And Norine, who is left to tell your "truth"? THE WORD of GOD which "does not LIE" (Num 23:19)!
I ONLY give WORD which "man" hates!
Here is link to my hub -
I Tim 5:20 "Them that sin "rebuke" before all, that others may also fear!"
The minute a person says "All Religions" you reveal yourself as someone who knows little or nothing about any religion. Muslims are different from Buddhists, who are very different from Hindus, who are extremely different from Sikhs and on and on.
"Religion"="man-made organizations" in which there is a supreme being that proclaims "LOVE" but r not "Disciples of Christ"
There is a "HUGE" DIFFERENCE! Spirit v. carnal!
Your a bit off on your assessment. If you know the Muslim religion they're to kill unbelievers.
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Re: Muslims: Apparently they have LOVE for their god by following his commands, To them action=love; whereas, we rest (no action) believing His Word allowing Holy Spirit's (WORD) conviction change or WORK (action) for us!
Not all religions say love everyone, there is one religion which has thousands of people from several countries that teaches different than love. In the Old Testament there were wars with God's people, but war is not what I am speaking of
Re: BLVRS: A: Pwrlss w/GOD? B: Divinity o/s w/GOD n/s? C: Why do we "argue" amongst selves? D: As C; E: As C; F: Growing; G: RIGHT!
Welcome to HubPages, Jeramey. A sensible and logical point of view that has not so-far attracted debate. Maybe it can't!
Ha, thank you Alan! I'd like to think that's a common thread among my all of my points!
On the contrary, there are many scientists including Einstein and Newton that believe in God. In fact, the more scientists dig in whatever discipline, they discover more mystery and see the amazement. Science is only a subset of the Universe.
GO Jack Lee! ONE DAY, I SAID "ONE DAY," ALL will come to the realization "THERE IS A GOD!"
Amen Jerry! "Gravity is not "open to interpretation" like the scriptures and science seldom comes under the sway of a charismatic leader who changes.."
Sorry Jeramey, I disagree, you are stereotyping, and that's not fair. Some of us who believe in God do search for proof
Monkey: Then u r not a "true worshiper" (Jn 4:24) per Heb 11:1 "not seen!"
"Faith" is absent if u still seek "proof" (hard evidence)!
When 1 blvs & have "Faith" so much (w/pure heart) actions ("proof") are "manifested" to ALL men!
Jeramey obviously got bored with the nonsense you keep coming up with, Norine, so he left months ago. You continue to spout nonsense, believing yourself to be intelligent. What a delusion!
Jeramey left but ALL will return to inevitable (death) which will then "make sense" but too late! GOD (WORD) is "unintelligent?" LOL! U will find out when u "appear before the judgmnt seat of Christ" ((2 Cor 5:10)! "Bored?" U'll see!
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"Proof" demanded by Atheist is a demand for "physical" or "carnal" results!
GOD demands "Spiritual" "PROOF" fm (1's heart) His Worshipers then HE gives results (Jn 4:24)!
Makes sense ONLY to those who "Walk in the Spirit" (Gal 5:16)!
Yes! They "Lean to their own understanding!" (Prov 3:5)
Well said DS.
DS: "..atheist thinks religion may be the world's greatest con!" THEY R RIGHT! "Conned" by "establishing "dates" & "chging wording" to "lose souls" for this is SATAN'S Kingdom & his job to "Kill, steal & destroy!" (Jn 10:10) BUT GOD (H
I know the Universe is billions of years old, and I'm a believer, I'm just not Christian. Only the Christian related religions believe it is thousands of years old
Monkey: How can u be a "blvr," but not a "Christian?" There's contradiction! You study "man" who says 1K's of yrs old! If GOD created ALL (Christian's belief), who do u have problem w/timeframe of creation which "man" has created & produced fact
Spoken as a believer "...cut out the middle man..."
It's ALL "Spiritual" (HIS WORD) not "man" (flesh) or his belief, understanding, interpretation but "revelation" from the Holy Spirit which is in agreement w/WORD!
But isn't the one who created the universe and the universe simply two sides of the same coin?
MY: The One who "created the universe" (GOD=HOLY=LOVE) while the "universe" (world=sin=evil)!
How can it "simply (be) two sides of THE SAME coin?"
Although GOD created ALL, He has NO PART w/sin & allows ALL "free will!"
Only GOD can chg their "stinking thinking" & renew their minds. It's our duty to "Teach!" (Matt 28:20) for "...GOD gives the increase." (I Cor 3:6)
That is a very good point, Virginia Allain. That very well may be a major difference. To simply say I will pray, yet take no actual action is a contradiction in itself.
GUYS: What happens when 1 who says "I believe" doesn't utilize the "GIFT" of the Holy Spirit who "WORKS" given us (Jn 14:26;16:13)! BELIEVERS "should" know this! HOLY SPIRIT "works," not we ourselves! (Eph 2:8-10)
One's best bet is to believe in a Creator that gave you the tools to lead an ethical life and then sent you on your way. Life will be good if you use them, life won't be if you don't.
My: "(GOD) gave you the tools to lead an ethical life and then sent you on your way." "Ethical life" is written in HIS WORD! "Sent u on ur way?" He'll NEVER leave us! Who told u this?
Yes, God said His Spirit would not with man, because he was flesh
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Monkey: Did u notice v2? Man began to "sin" & His Spirit does not "strive w/man" who "sins!"
This is another subject re: Marrying w/o knowing God which isn't a Marriage "As GOD intended!"
Great example of one "leaning to own (man's) understanding" (Prov 3:5) & not relying on Holy Spirit! (Rm 1:25) "Open minds" kill!
Yes, Consuelo De Bilbao Luzarraga, I have seen Ancient Aliens and other similar theories. Some are fascinating to say the least. In this day and age where graphics are able to have us see things like never before, it does give cause for pondering.
Norine, I don't want or need you to "Amen" anything I say. They closed the other thread just before I told you off
Monkey: If u speak TRUTH fm WORD, whether u "need me to Amen" or not GOD Amen's via HIS WORD! When I write Amen, GOD has said IT no matter who (YOU or anyone else) writes!
Why do u feel the need "to tell ME off" when WORD (GOD) is given?
Another difference is that I, as a "non-believer," can respect and allow your belief and not try to change it. There are not many "believers" who will return the compliment.
I have no need for a "hoped-for" after death.
Alan: Think in advance. On dying bed, "afraid" to enter "unknown." (Unnatural to say "I'm not" so don't go there!) What then? You'll SEE!
Why not b prepared ("in the event")? Doesn't "cost" anything but "denying" SELF & rec "rewards" n THIS LIFE
fascinating deflection. I only answered what you yourself asked. Who told you I was doing something to you? Your deception to yourself allowed you to feel it was not simple reality tugging at you by shifting you to something you could question.
Max: I beg your pardon? Were u speaking to me?
"I'd wonder why we're here in the first place." SELF reliance, SELF righteousness, SELF capabilities, SELF, SELF, SELF! Spirit man doesn't exist for unblvrs! Very "shallow" yet think INTELLIGENT? Haven't ARRIVED yet!
Define "believers" and "non-believers". "Believers" in what? The Christian versions of God, the Jewish versions of God, the Muslim versions of God? Then there are Buddhists, Hindus, etc. What of them?
BELEIVERS in the ONE & ONLY TRUE & LIVING GOD! The GOD of ABRAHAM, ISSAC & JACOB who stated "Thou shalt have NO OTHER god before ME (Exd 20:3) which includes Muslim, Buddhists, Hindus, etc.
Not "all equal in god's mind" Eph 2:5 says "..we were DEAD in sins.." (Spirit thing)! So for those "in sins,"=DEAD (spiritually)! This is why "marriages" in sin, GOD doesn't recognize for marriage is a spiritual thg as is worshiping GOD! Eph 5:23!
"Many have missed this important detail that states kingdom meaning Goverment is totally throughout the bible even in the end." "Kingdom"=LIVING WORD until "leavened" into His likeness! (Lk 13:20-21). I AGREE "New Govt"=no citizen if not n SPIRIT!
Esoteric you use the word expectations,
True, but expecting is still believing in the situation. You may feel comfortable with the word , the bible uses the word as well,
Heb 11:1Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for,
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