I left the church, because of hypocrisy. I was tired of hearing the church called a place of love and healing when all of my interactions with Christians had been full of judgment and hurt. I learned there wasn't room in the church for me, because of my mental illness and my love of dark clothes.
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Bill: What is this "love" I here "sheep" speak of? Did not Jesus say in Jn 21:15-17 3x's) "If you love ME, feed my sheep?" I see the MAJORITY on HP not doing this! So, what is this "love?" Lk 8:16 "hiding it?" Lk 6:45 "1's mouth tells ALL!"
Well said. We might have left behind a building or an organization but we are still apart of the universal church. The church unseen.
Kris: U asked "Why do 1 thk ancient religion is increasing" then u say we're part of the "universal church?" The "church unseen" follows Bible which says"If ANYONE preach any other gospel than the Gospel of Christ="ACCURSED" (2x's) Gal 1:6-9. Who?
Norine, there is a a "universal church" it is made up of all the Christians around the world and the "unseen" church is the church throughout history starting with the apostles until now. I believe CS Lewis uses the term in the Screwtape letters
Kris: I've never seen "universal church" in Bible? CS Lewis has "opinion." BIBLE says "one accord" believing AFTER THE CROSS or Gal 1:6-9. What "univ church" does this? Satan has "twisted" those who don't STUDY WORD! GOD'S concerned! TIRED!
norine and kris, do you both believe in GOD?
William, the church may leave you but GOD is not. As long as you beleive inb Him. There is no church that can SAVE YOU. it only depends on what track you are walking (MATHEW 7:13)
H: James 2:19 "Even the devil believes there is 1 God!" STUDY!
Until believers worship "After the Cross" or "After the Day of Pentecost," then Galatians 1:6-9 = "ACCURSED" & He (JESUS who spoke thru Paul; (Jer 31:33; Heb 8:10;10:16) TWO TIMES
Anna: If they "judged" & not according to WORD=sin! Study WORD & you'll KNOW if they're correct. Until then, ask them to "prove" (II Tim 3:16) w/Scripture & verse, if can't=LIE! Scripture tells us to "judge righteous judgment" (Jn 7:24)
Okay Norine but what if I don't care about/abide by your scripture. If scripture is about judgement then I want nothing to do with it. I refuse to worship a God who uses his power to judge and hurt his people. Whether he's real or not.
Anna: It's about accepted the FACT that HE IS GOD & we r only "creations!" If 1 "believes," who'd u rather follow you (creation) or The Creator (GOD)!
If you'd rather follow you, Rm 1:21-32 applies & "anything goes!"
Hey I'm not saying I don't worship God, and I certainly don't worship man. I just don't believe you have any right to interpret scripture the way you want to judge other based on their lifestyle. It's one thing to encourage people. Another to condemn
Surely God is capable enough and doesn't need human assistant in matters of divine litigation. Come to think, maybe he positively doesn't want us to interfere since we are so prone to sin and impurity. So maybe... people just shouldn't judge.
RL: HE ALWAYS DID (use man) fm the beginning! We're "chging fm glory to glory?" (II Cor 3:18)
Scripture says "judge" (I Tim 5:20)! REBUKE=Judge (w/WORD)!
"Did u know that we will "judge" angels (I Cor 6:2-3)? Why 1 thinks, not now? ONLY W/WORD
Then why did Jesus say we shouldn't judge?
RL: Give Scripture! If referring to Matt 7:1-3 HE DID SAY "YOU" JUDGE NOT but DID NOT SAY "I" (WORD) JUDGE(S) NOT! One of the most misconstrued Verses in Bible. How will 1 know not doing according to WORD if not TOLD & doesn't STUDY? Why I give W
RL Jesus did say not to judge, and this would be the type of judgment we are all referring to.
Norine: That verse in Timothy is specifically for church discipline and goes with the verse James to "gently correct" or Matthew 18 to approach privately
Anna: A lot of churches have just turned it into a religion or a business trust me I feel you there but pray god will lead to a church that you want and where you will feel his warmth and love like we are suppose to.
Thanks Matthew. Honestly I think it would take a decrease in the rampant judgement and a tolerance of diversity would bring me back. And that doesn't look super likely (tho I like many individual communities) Otherwise I can be spiritual on my own.
Anna: Well if you need help with an spiritual guidance more then happy to help to be stronger keep doing what you are doing just remember god is not about religion his about relationship with him and I bet you ha be a great one with him
Anna: If "in Scripture, NOT THEM "judging" BUT GOD! Read (Heb 10:25)!
Kris, Rd Heb 4:12! Word "judges" & "cuts!" Why they leave! "Church discipline?" Thought u were "universal church?" Isaiah 55:11.
Matt: Whose gonna tell them right if 1 leav
Norine: What you mean by 1 leave
Matt: "STAND" on HIS WORD Scripture says (I Cor 16:13)! "Leaving" doesn't display "STANDING!" How will they learn HIS WORD? (Acts 8:31)
ALWAYS give Scripture (WORD) & they can't say "U" said but u can say "GOD SAID!"
Norine 1 John 2:1-6 will explain it if your feel his a lair leave if he speaks the true you will stay and follow him
Matt: I Jn 2:1-6 "if u keep commandments" but who knows what they r if 1 doesn't STUDY?
"..if your feel his a lair.." Not what "1 feels" but what WORD SAYS!
Keep "mind stayed on Him" (Is 26:3) (WWJD) when responding or "feeling!"
Feeling wise I hope alot of people are reading this comments cause stuff like this will help us gain more wisdom and grow
Matt: I "literally" cried & THANKED JESUS for using me as a "vessel" after I read your comment! Thank God for you Matt & I hope ALL "see" (my goal) if GOD SAID IT, IT'S TRUE. Our "opinions (feelings) count for naught! (Prov 3:5)!
Get: Just as breathing "seems crazy" but we do it!
"...we needed to help God win..." Who told u this? "Help" GOD? God doesn't need "help," WE DO & Holy Spirit sent to help us (Jn 14:26;1613). REALITY! Try SPIRIT v. physical for maturity!
Norine: Breathing doesn't seem crazy. This is an example of the fact that indoctrination causes people to say the most unreasonable things. Please come up with better arguments. Who told u that WE NEED HOLY SPIRIT? Maturity?...NO. Childish?...Yes!
Yes! Breathing "seems crazy' when 1 doesn't realize that he will be "reconciled" to GOD . Why HE allows 1 to cont breathing then "seems crazy!" GRACE! That's how much HE loves us! Your "maturity" has exceeded GOD'S? Ex of "immaturity!"!
Religious beliefs are like an extended belief in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus. At least in that aspect of the believers life...development of critical thinking is arrested...and it doesn't mature. Religious programming is heartless and severe.
Interesting Getit the very first time you answered a question I been looking for.
If that is what you get from the story , then
You welcome to believe as you wish,
As I listen to your story I find some truth, very little though.
You also said !
Get: "dev of critical thinking is arrested?" BIG MISTAKE in 1's thking! GOD'S thking (SPIRIT=THE HOLY SPIRIT) "EXCEEDS" man's "critical" thking! WHO can "exceed" CREATOR'S thking & "maturity?" Get real! Holy Spirit "programming"= "MATURITY!"
K&T: My assertions are TOTALLY true...at least in the real world. Of course anyone who has been programmed with an INDOCTRINATED directive must support their programmed orders. Ergo, reality has to align with abject absurdities. Frightening!!!
Getit you have said the words (my) assertions ! true for you , that is like saying your clothes fit me , they do not, because we are made different.
You think and feel this way , but others feel and think of their own assertion.
K&T: True..reality does not fit everyone. Especially those of the group think mentality. They put on the clothing that Authority tells them to.
Norine: Sorry, but your God has done no thinking at all.only dependent upon man to do ALL of his think
Getit the problem with your thinking is that you think you are the only one that thinks a certain way, you assume everyone else can not see because they disagree with you.
Did someone tell you how to put your clothes on, nobody told me.
"Getit the problem with your thinking is that you think you are the only one that thinks a certain way, you assume everyone else can not see because they disagree with you"
UNTRUE. STRAW MAN. Its not me u disagree with. Its reason and logic!
Who told you you have logic, and why do like to use the word strawman this only makes since to you.
This is what I am saying some one feels as strong and convincing as you believe, that does not mean they are wrong .but that simply is your belief.
Get: THE SPIRIT enables man to "tell" others by entering hearts & minds of "vessel" (I agree, HE uses "man" to speak) yet what greater POWER to have than THE GLORY (ability) to do that? Again, provide book w/as many accurate prophecies as Bible
Go Ponce! You're talking to me! The (flesh) gets tired of unbelievers! I did! They treated me as they do on HP but I find consolation in HIS WORD! (Jn 15:18; Jn 16:2)
We are talking about more than 'mistakes', we are talking about active, planned, plotted, and intentional evil.
Bill: If you've encountered such a church ("more than 'mistakes', we are talking about active, planned, plotted, and intentional evil"), give Scripture where "actions" are AGAINST WORD! They can't say "U SAID" rather u can say "GOD SAID!" STAND!
wm-- what else would you expect of a system that rejects the truths of scripture to follow apostate men into their kingdom instead of The Kingdom of God and their man made doctrines, You must read and UNDERSTAND your bible
I love God, but I find myself disliking Christians more everyday. I feel like no one remembers what being a Christian is really supposed to be about anymore and it has become all about feeling better about yourself and using God to make money
TEACH them Kris! It was commanded of you (Matt 28:20)!
getit , I noticed in the very beginning you
Say adults were telling you these things.
so young, and yet they had the story wrong to.
Reality is this why do humans live and die.
Who can change the good and bad of what effects us all.
No...the story was and is pretty accurate. Our Christian belief is based on a morbid and monstrous death cult philosophy.
Who told you that getit, while I will agree there are bad examples of christains, there are bad example of humans without religion
So far I have really seen nothing but people who reject religion for many reasons some very valid some not.
K&T: "U" cont to "disrupt conv saying "NO SPACE" anywhere will do" but subtly playing "The Devil's Advocate!" GOD "SEES" & so do I! Spirit of Discernment is "ALIVE" (WORD) Heb 4:12 & well!
Kryssy, it's time you do as II Timothy 2:15 says (STUDY what HE says) and find a church that is in line with HIS WORD & Galatians 1:6-9 or "After the Cross!" Or did Jesus die in vain?
I understand your hurt. Don't give up yet! They may be few and far between, but there are good churches out there that actually follow the word of God.
Getit that is your mental conclusion, you can not say all people are the same , we come in different shades different sizes, different sounds, tastes, conclusions could not be based on your experience which is real, and people will follow their own
K&T: What WORD given do u not agree & r u stating "used out of context?" JESUS "IS" GOD? See "Promise Keeper" by Hubber "LIFE!" "See if those thgs r so" by STUDYING Scripture "IN THE SPIRIT" erasing "taught" fm mind & He will reveal TRUTH
"it had to make sense" (Prov 3:5) If belief founded on this, not Christ-like! Jn 4:24! He "reveals" not "sense!" "trying to make some one feel bad, mentally and physically. " If WORD does=It's Working! Heb 4:12. Spirit of discernment "if u r a child
Norine I shared my experience not to be analyzed to feed your ego ! You need to mind your own business and analyze that
I am happy with my choice and I do not have to attack others to feel good about myself, you need to learn about why you do this
K&T: Ego? Did I not "repeat" God's Word? Prov, Jn & Heb? Who analyzes? K&T: It's time SOMEONE tell TRUTH! I "feel good" about myself with or without anyone. I have JESUS! "Learn why I do this?" He told me to tell "taught" sheep TRUTH!
True, I appreciated that the pastor at the church I now attend took the time and walked me through Scripture to answer my questions. I didn't have to accept an answer just because he taught it or because it had always be taught that way
Kris: True, that is what a shepherd is to do "teach his sheep" but Jer 23:1! If shepherd is not teaching "After the Cross," Acts 2:42 you'd better rethink ur belief! No matter who "tells" u what, u STUDY (II Tim 2:15) & learn to "rightly divide"
Matthew Harvey I just wrote a hub because of the length of explaing this fact. If you like a company do you just walk in and say I Am hired? Do you start working and doing things your way and say you are hired.
No! The same with God, many not saved
K&T: ANYONE talking to me MUST "prove" (II Tim 3:16) their belief w/SCRIPTURE; otherwise=LIE & "not saved!"
Spirit of Discernment (revelation of indirect subtleness) is alive & well!
Don't say "not talking 2 u" based on # of x's u disag
Mt 4:6 and said to him: “If you are a son of God, throw yourself down,for it is written: ‘He will give his angels a command concerning you.
This scripture proves satan also repeated the word of God
Just because you use scripture does not make right
In all of life anyone can quote Scripture the question about the scripture is knowing it believe in it and people have the same view of it everyone takes scripture differently it may make a meaning for you but a different meaning for others
K&T: ALL I teach is "AFTER THE CROSS," ("ONE" reason JESUS DIED: Sent HOLY SPIRIT Jn:14:26;16:13) Is this a LIE? & JESUS is GOD (See "The Promise Keeper" by LIFE), IS this A LIE?A "MYSTERY" but NOT A LIE! For those that can't "SEE" II Cor 4:
1Ti 4:1However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons,
You continue to use false infomation in teaching , one is cross . Mark
K&T: Reverse Scriptures given to yourself, STUDY "to see if these thgs are so" (Acts 17:11).
I use WORD (to judge), since u can't "see heart" to judge & to say "demonizied"=blasphemy!
"Taught" v "Holy Spirit" exactly what I Tim 4:1 talki
I have started attended a Lutheran Church. Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. I enjoy that they are so Gospel based. At first being in such a traditional church made me nervous, but now I see the value of traditions and how they can enhance ones faith
Kris: STUDY for yourself starting w/baptism (Heb 6:1-3). Research Matt 28:19 (Only 1x n Bible although II Cor 13:1; Deut 19:15; Matt 1816) and NO ONE DID! Why?
Haha, I hear you there. I've had to leave services because some lady's perfume caused me to have an allergy attack.
RL: You're funnY! lol! You crack my sides!
Leaving was good for allergies but what about your "soul?" Get a face mask & "get busy!"
Jesus never said thou shall attend church. He said love god with all your heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as you do yourself.
And it's still good to see your pleasant side again. Glad to hear from you.
RL: Thanks RL! I'm always "pleasant" but "perceived as unpleasant" for speaking TRUTH (Eph 4:15), might I add, "w/o tact!" Some x's it takes!
Heb 10:25 "Not forsaking assembling...but exhorting 1 another" according to WORD! See why GOD put me here?
Well I'm here everyday contemplating, talking and reading about truth, justice, good, evil, life, love, happiness and God. That is my form of assembling and exhorting. My physical self and the name of a denomination or book are a hindrance?
RL: I agree, the "physical" is a "hindrance (spirit v. flesh)," but can't say ANY spirit will do!
Scripture did say "test the spirits" to see which 1 was of GOD!
Go ahead! You'll return to GOD, if seeking TRUTH!
We all go with an expectation to church to receive something from God or from the people. We can be the church to people as well and we can give to others as well. Who are we if we are not the church of God?
"Religiously Correct"=no adversity (Jesus?); no confrontations (Jesus?); personal thing (Jesus?); no suffering (Jesus?); respect other beliefs=sin (Jesus?); live & let live (Jesus?) I got mine u get urs (Jesus?) not led by Holy Spirit (Jesus?);Qu
I have found a new church, thanks to my husband. I love the people there and the Pastor. I have started blogging as a way to address certain issues in the church. I asked the question to better understand why people leave the church.
Kris: Sometimes we (flesh) get tired (still growing) of ppl being unChrist-like proclaiming Christianity but reflecting none & leave not remembering what He said "Teach" (Matt 28:20) & II Tim 3:16 "Correct!" If we don't who will?
Also get it, existence of the flesh of man and animal are reality, not impossible you are you as getit, why should it be impossible that other life exist just because it is not in our vision.
Many undiscovered animals are on the Islands existing.
Norine, you are not helping your cause with your rhetoric. It's a litany like this one that pushes people away, and does not draw them in.
Wm: What "portion" of GOD'S WORD do you consider rhetoric? If you have a problem with something "I've" said, there most be a problem w/HIS WORD for that's ALL I give (I repeat)! So where's the problem?
Anything in the above comment you made that is YOURS and not Scripture is rhetoric, Norine. Your approach and tone is destructive to the church and the mission. Just stop it.
Bill: What church-Catholic? Not THE CHURCH who teaches "The Gospel of Christ!" What WORD "cuts" you? "Wiser" ppl? "Stand fast"=I Cor 16:13? "Have Faith?" "Don't run!" What?
wm- Though I frequently disagree with norine, she is growing and does make some excellent. Her mistakes are certainly less then most people on here. You are much more dangerous with your blending ungodly psychology w/scripture/ leave her be
Liz: When u "lost" & "found" x w/GOD, HE WAS "DRAWING" u! "...restoration and healing must take place before the day when Jesus comes back again." THE X IS "NOW!" Satan has used device ("religion") to confuse & we MUST "Study" not b as "sh
I came back when I found a church that taught the truth of Scripture. Jesus says we are not of the world, so I don;t think we can find a middle ground, but we are called to carry on his work in the world ie sharing the Gospel, Baptizing
Kris: We're called to share "rightly divided" Scripture! If not living "After Christ Died" (aren't we?), under NEW Covenant, After The Day of Pentecost, in err! Why didn't anyone baptize according to Matt 28:19, which was under Old Covenant? Ask
Kris. There is not a perfect church teaching the absolute correct doctrine that you are looking for. People are not perfect either and they might preach it in a way that you don't like. Your perception might be different. Let God teach you first
Liz: R u saying those who FOLLOW "The Gospel of Christ" as taught by Paul & the Apostles isn't "The Perfect Church?"
Read Eph 2:19-20; Rev 21:14; Gal 1:6-9;!
Why did disciples "FOLLOW PAUL?" (Acts 2:42)! THEY KNEW AS I! I Cor 3:6!
Lizelle: I didn't mean it to seem we teach perfect doctrine, only that the LCMS is the one I found that is most Biblically accurate
Jesus spend time with the Apostles and He taught them the gospel; Jesus said that they must go out and spread the gospel in the same way. Paul preached the gospel and wrote parts of the gospels in the Bible as well, Paul was a good example to follow
Ash: NO! IT MUST teach "AFTER THE CROSS" or Jesus DIED IN VAIN! Read Galatians 1:6-9; Acts Chapter 1+ & follow as they did in Acts 2:42 & thereafter. If not living accordingly, serving "man" just "saying GOD!"
Matt: Scripture says "Judge "righteous" judgment and NONE is "righteous" but HIS WORD. If 1 doesn't judge w/WORD, "they judge" & NO ONE can judge but GOD (WORD)! I Tim 5:20 tells us to "REBUKE SIN" & 1 can't w/o "judging:" ONLY w/WORD!
Keep looking...there are those all-inclusive's in the strangest subgroups of large unlikelies. I found one hidden which is amazing. And it is easier to be good with do-gooders than alone. Believe me.
Matt: Read I Cor 6:3! Tell them to "prove" (II Tim 3:16) their judgment of you w/SCRIPTURE! Then Ask God (Jm 1:5)!
JK: "Keep looking?" Do what WORD says in Matt 18:15-17 then "keep looking" if they refuse to agree w/WORD!
I was the same. I stopped attending church, but never stopped believing in God. I continued to read my Bible and pray and listen to worship music. It took awhile but I found a new church to call home.
oh most definitely if we use scripture we can judge cause its gods work but ive seen alot of churches make up false scriptures to judge and say its gods word cause alot of people listen more then read the word so they think is god.
Great answer Matthew Harvey , Jesus said leave , get out of her ,
Why? Because religions have been judge as a disgusting harlot who controls many by the power the Government gives her.
She really does not represent God in truth , but claimbs to.
Matt: If 1 can't "prove" w/WORD=LIE! That's why Scripture say ("YOU") "Study to show thyself approved unto GOD, a workman THAT NEEDETH NOT BE ASHAMED, (but) "rightly dividing" the WORD of TRUTH" (II Tim 2:15)! Some x's GOD put us w/those to TELL!