What many people do not realize is that the Trinity is dogma from those not empowered by the same spirit as those that wrote the Bible. It is not sacrosanct. I happen to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and one in the same as God and that it is a Holy Mystery. But I can get down with someone who says Jesus is the Son of God and not one with God.
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Thank you for weighing in Venkatachari, I think a great many hold your sentiment - belief.
Eric: Ven's got it ("SAME SPIRIT" not a "Being" or "Person!")!
If not "WITH ONE ACCORD" (Acts 2:1) w/"rightly divided" WORD (II Tim 2:15), where r u?
There is no n btwn! Either GOD or SATAN!
"Choose" (Josh 24:15)!
I think maybe.
Law: "U think "maybe" what?
Jm 1:5 "If any man "lacks wisdom," let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, & upbraideth not; & it shall be given unto him."
Very interesting Tim. I understand also the the Trinity came from the Nicene Council. It works for me for a way to understand the oneness concept.
If "it works for you," Eric, SATAN (Nicene Council) has "bewitched" U (Galatians 3:1)!
U need to "go back" & "WAIT" (Acts 1:4) for Holy Spirit "leadership & guidance" (Jn 14:26; 16:13)!
U sure don't! U should have "WAITED" for the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4) & NOT "Lean to your own understanding" (Prov 3:5)!
Cool. That is a really interesting stance. I like the "incarnateness" of calling Christ the Word of God. He certainly speaks so that I can hear. Great insight as to how the ancients viewed and the Muslim. Thank you.
Norine. Please explain as you're not making much sense!
Law: What Trinity? U limit THE SPIRIT (I Cor 12) to 3?
If so, u should have "WAITED" for Holy Spirit "guidance" (Jn 16:13) instead of Prov 3:5 being "taught" by "man!" Comprende?
Eric: If "HE" speaks so u can hear, what happened? He's not diff!
Norine you are doing it again -- you have so much to say it is like you cannot catch your breath. Lighten up a little. You cannot make every point on every comment. Take one point at a time and say it. This abbreviation stuff is manic.
'In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning'
Seems pretty clear to there's more than one! Yet singular in purpose!
More than 1?
Rev1:8 JESUS said "I AM Alpha & Omega, the beginning & the end..." ONE SPIRIT (I Cor 12;(v12) "SO ALSO IS CHRIST;" Eph 4:4-6; I Tim 3:16; Jn 4:24)!
Why did ALL these Scriptures LIE?
See what "teachings" v "Holy Spirit" leading
Norine you are writing like you have lost your mind. Try to focus. You are doing great but take one thing at a time and write it. You are looking like a lunatic again. Gibberish. Please gather some control. Breathe and exhale easy.
A more correct translation is; 'In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. It (the word) was with God in the beginning' all things were made through it (the word) without it was not anything that was made. In it
Eric: When Law said "more than 1" & WORD says NOT (I Cor 12), I've "lost my mind," going to fast," etc? What r u on? I HAVE WORD u all have "teachings!" Don't TRY & discredit msgr!
Rich: "..BEFORE Abraham was, I AM!" (Jn 8:58)!! Remember t
We're not trying to discredit anyone. Eric asked a question and I answered that I believe in it but can't fully explain it! Three seperate yet united or one being with three manifestations? Could be either! When we get to heaven we'll find out
A 'Being' can be both! That's why we use the term! Jesus was/is a physical person hence the term is correct!
No one is trying to limit anything or anyone! Just give an explanation in what I believe!
Law: Really? Being=person! NOT! ALL SPIRIT!
2 Pet 1:3 Wait for heaven?
Not “separate” but ONE SPIRIT (I Cor 12) THAT SAME SPIRIT who operates n MANY GLORIES-simultaneously, if HE wishes, yet ONE SPIRIT!
Eric: U deleted or malfunction?
If Jesus is "In very nature God" then yes! He took his body into heaven! Or is scripture wrong?
Law: There's NO flesh & blood n heaven (I Cor 15:50) ALL SPIRITUAL!
"SPIRITUAL" WORSHIPERS r "TRUE WORSHIPERS" (Jn 4:24) those ANOINTED w/HOLY SPIRIT who can "SEE" (Jn 6:44)!!
I checked the Greek for Phil 2 vs 6 very clear 'same' not 'like' or 'similar'! Being in very nature (same) God! Maybe they are three manifestations of the same being? As for 'flesh in heaven' Did the ascension physically happen? (I believe so)
Law: I give WORD! I Cor 15:50 LIED? I Cor 15:44 "raised a spiritual body!" Give Scripture for what u blv!
Why do u keep saying "being?" SPIRIT! Read I Cor 12:12 as such: "For as THE SPIRIT is ONE, & hath MANY GLORIES.."SO ALSO IS CHRIST" confirms
Norine -- good for you, I know that causing others to disdain you is what you see as great. It is working again. Perhaps you could take a Psalm break and get it together before you alienate more folk.
Eric: IF they'd BLV WORD instead of "justifying self-righteousness," it wouldn't be a prob! U can perceive me however, I will cont to GIVE WORD! Didn't I say WORD cuts, unkind, esp when 1 is WRONG? 1 should "Search" to c if TRUE v run(Acts 17:11)!
You still haven't answered the question! Was the resurrection and ascension physical? I believe it was!
Law: U really don't READ verses given, do u?="I Cor 15:44 "raised a spiritual body!" (if we, as followers of Christ, r "raised a spiritual body;" then HE was) nor do u answer Q asked of u: Give Scripture(s) for whats u blv!
Norine. I did give the scriptures! Read my comments! Answer to you I'no prob with those scripts, I want to know why you think it was only 'spiritual' when JC makes it plain it was both? Paul argues ours will be too!
Give Scripture ea x (I Cor 14:40="decent & n order")!
Please REPEAT Scripture & give Scripture v "your opinion!"
Where does Paul say so (I Pet 3:15)?
John chp 1 (whole chp)
Physical body resurrected John 20vs 24-7
Physical ascension Acts chp 1
Physical resurrection for us 1 cor 15 vs 1-18
Physical blood within the heavenly sanctuary Hebrew 9 vs 11-15 (hence the physical body there)
MY GOD! How can u get "a physical body" out of these Scriptures? Are u so far from "worshiping in Spirit?" He told Mary don't touch (Spirit) needed body for doubting Thomas & MAN (u)!
Flesh & blood not n heaven & u know this (I Cor 15:35
He said "don't touch, I've not yet ascended to my father!"
He also told Thomas to "put your finger where the nails were!" You can't do that to purely spirit can you?
How about Paul's statement in 1cor 15?
STOP trying 2 justify “twisted” ? & ACCEPT what IS WRITTEN!
HE rose as Spirit why HE needed body for (still trying 2 relate 2 mere-man) “doubters” (u)!
“How about” it” (I Cor 15:44)?“It is sown a natural body; it is raised a “SPIRITUAL BODY..."
Wow I got a lot out of the last 6 or so of these comments. Thomas touched him he could not do that if He was pure Spirit. All the other requires a personal translation. Really cool.
TRUTH is “cool!”When w/”doubting Thomas,”HE had already “been to HIS Father”&had a “physical body.”But w/Mary, was Spirit & why HE said “Don’t touch!”
WOW! Can’t y’all“see”GOD has ALWAYS “Tried to Relate to Man?”
But Man uses carnal v Spirit
So, you're saying when Jesus spoke to Mary on the Sunday the body was still in the tomb? When did he come back for it? What about Peter? Why was there no body then? It was before he met with Mary wasn't it?
THE POINT IS:No one could touch HIM until "HE had gone to the Father" (or HE had materialized a phys body) but had the CAPABILITY to walk thru walls, manifest fm 1 spot to another n matter of seconds, etc, even in phys state!
DON'T LIMIT GOD!
I agree with not limiting God! That's what you're doing not me! To me it was both!!
Law: Well, in that case (if u don't limit), u know HE is Omnipresent! Voice fm heavem, dove & standing for bapt @ same x!
YEAH! U GOT IT!
Absolutely! Amen to that!
Law: Then how can u blv HE'S "beings" or "persons" or in the "trinity" when I Cor 12 says "THAT SAME (ONE) SPIRIT?"
"Omnipresent" contradicts ur belief in "trinity" which LIMITS GOD to 3 "beings" or "persons!"
I didn't say I understand it! Maybe the Trinity is three ways of seeing the same (Lull proposed like ice, steam and water as a picture) at Nicea Athanasius argued Christ was of the 'same substance as the Father/
"Substance?" Is SPIRIT "substance?"
If u would STUDY Scripture, Eph 4:4-6; I Cor chptr 12; google some Bible verses that say Jesus is GOD which confirms ONE SPIRIT, u would "see!"
Eric: I BLV WORD (ONE SPIRIT; I Cor 12) not "s/t close!" I Cor 2:10-16 "HS compares "spiritual to spiritual!" How Mary conceived is n WORD (Matt 1:18 "..of the Holy Spirit")! "Leap of faith?" NO! Spiritually minded!
DON'T LIMIT GOD (Billionity)!
Thank you for that fine answer with testimony. The concept of praying unceasingly sure does work for me. I surely can squeeze in a bunch of "oops" during a day, and he always helps me get back on track.
Spark: "A lot of questions will not be answered for me until I get to the other side of eternity."
I Pet 1:3 "...ALL thgs that pertain unto life & "godliness" hath been given us in WORD" if we allow Holy Spirit's "leadership & guidance!"(Jn
I don't understand why you all separate the three elements as distinct from each other and nomenclature them as Trinity. God, Son of God and Holy Spirit each name refer to the same God. No separate Beings. You call whatever you like but all are one
Thank you for that well thought out answer Rich. I think all are wise to at least understand your position. Certainly real knowledge can only increase one's faith.
Ven: IF they don't have eyes to "see," they will NEVER "see," nor ears to "hear," they will NEVER "hear!"
I pray "...that the "eyes of their hearts" be enlightened" (Eph 1:18)!
I see where you're coming from but how do you reconcile Phillippians 2 v 11 "Who being in the very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped"?
ALL need to "thk Spiritually!" WORD is NEVER speaking of "flesh" (father & son) nor Father & Son but THAT SAME SPIRIT (I Cor 12) who chgs into ANY or MANY Glories HE wishes simultaneously IF HE DESIRES!
Think "Spiritual!"(Jn 4:24="True Worshi
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
God made Jesus His Son Lord. Confess it and bring God Glory.
I think you are referring to Philippians 2:6. Since space is limited, here is a link to a deeper study that may answer your question.
I've listened to part of this and his premise is wrong because if Jesus is 'in the form' then how can be not be equal to? Are there 'lesser gods'?
ALL: JESUS CHRIST (A GLORY) IS "LORD GOD," WHO GLORIFIED “HIMSELF” (CHANGED “HIMSELF”) INTO THE “GLORY” OF JESUS CHRIST (FLESH)!
GOD MADE “HIMSELF” (JESUS CHRIST) OR I TIM 3:16 LIED WHILE FILLING HEAVEN & EARTH IN OTHER GLORYS!
That is correct (Psalm 82:1and 6) Jesus confirms this (John 10:34)
We will be partakers of God's divine nature, just like Jesus.
We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. (1 John 3:1-2).
ALL: Yes P&N is correct "we are gods" ONLY if we believe WORD & the MYSTERY of THAT ONE SPIRIT (I Cor 12)!
I Jn 4:17 says "...because AS HE IS, SO ARE WE (LISTEN) "IN THIS WORLD" (NOW)!
This link is about Phill2:6 http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trin...
The video is 51 min hard to get through. I prefer reading, this link is but a few pages.
Rich: One can "ignore" & remain "ignorant" in "twisted" belief, but I give WORD (I Cor 12:1)! It's x ALL put on their "Spiritual eyeglasses" (Jn 4:24) & STUDY (II Tim 2:15)! The x is nigh! To remain "complacent," defies WORD (II Cor 3:18)!
Very interesting. Although I must say I could not really follow you. Perhaps a little normal speaking might help get your point across.
Matt 13:10-13! Is this "normal speaking?"
U know ERIC, if you don't have "ears" to hear, u will NEVER "hear," r eyes to "see" u will NEVER "see!"
Talk to JESUS!
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
Eric: "FIRST," one MUST learn to LOVE GOD, "BEFORE" they can love their neighbor! HOW? "Go Back" & "WAIT" for Holy Spirit's "leadership & guidance" for "UNDERSTANDING" (not man's; Prov 3:5) of HIS WORD! Then, LOVE is a "by-product" or "benefi
Too much deep insight provided here. It is true that God has no limits, no death and rebirth. But when God arrives on earth in human shape, He himself limits His duration in that form. Jesus came to show us path twice. We have Rama and Krishna here.
"God has no limits, no death and rebirth" I agree, yet His son Jesus was born, lived, died, and raised from the dead all while His Father remained in Heaven on the throne. Two people, two places not one.
I like that Norine. It makes good sense. I would add that one also has to love oneself after God.
Rich: U defy Jer 23:24="HE(GOD aka SPIRIT) fills the heaven & earth?"Can't u thk SPIRIT instead of "PEOPLE?" Peanut brain="carnal!"
Father&Son=1 less than Trinity!" Sounds like u blv Trinity (-1)? Spin off?
Norine, maybe you would do well to make one point during a comment. That way maybe we could follow you. As it is you appear manic jumping from one abreviated point to another. Impossible to follow. The hearer is as important as the speaker.
Eric: Can u comprehend Scripture? Do I have to "chew it up" for u? (I Cor 13:11; 14:20)
Read ALL of I Cor Chptr 12 & pay "special attention" to v12!
What does it say?
I can follow that Norine. Thank you. I think it is unchristian of you to insult me like that. So I take the rest of what you say with a grain of salt. You yell your position instead of acting your position. Good for you. But you make yourself petty
Eric: Please STOP looking @ msgr & listen to MESSAGE!
Tell me, what did I Cor 12 say, especially v12?
That is very good Norine - I can follow this. And what gift have you been given Norine. Certainly not one of communication I hope. I try to follow your messages but you are so on fire that you switch from on to another in a hurry. Why do you hurry so
Eric: As U know, when commenting to Q "Why r Christians Afraid to Follow Jesus?" GOD called me fm my sleep to see author's statement (like) "It would behoove u all to listen to this prophet" confirming my belief! TRUTH (WORD) is ALL i have!
Sorry Norine that makes no sense. Take it easy and we shall listen.
Eric: "Taking it easy" is why the world is in the shape it's in now re: "Christianity!" Do u not know, TRUTH hurts (insults, rude, unkind, etc) esp if 1 is WRONG?
GOD hates RELIGION & what man has created of HIM: 1 who is "Religiously Correct!"
Norine you make a fine point. That fine line between being fanatic and not heard and being too careless and not active enough. The balance is there and I am sure you are working toward it with the Holy Spirits' help and love.
Eric: 1 can NEVER be "fanatic" enough re: JESUS=TRUTH!
IF 1 has "ear," let him "hear" or II Cor 4:3-18!
Go to youtube & listen to Helen Baylor="Live!"
Gal 5 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
ERIC: "Fruit of the Spirit"=ON ONE ACCORD w/another w/"Fruit of the Spirit!" Did JESUS display "Fruit of the Spirit" w/Scribes & Pharisees or those "selling in Temple" (SATAN)?
Another display of 1's "Religiously Correct" JESUS!
I am a bad guy to ask that question of. I believe that the gift of the spirit of giving is inside all of us, so that the notion of Santa Claus is alive and well.
Why does SATAN always attend "church service?"
Scribes & Pharisees r ALWAYS there!
santa clause is real he lives in the north pole.
Dan: Got another demonic spirit?
The Nicene Council did not think of it as a "misconception!"
SATAN (Catholic Church) "deliberately interpreted" to lose souls!
Spirit of SATAN entered to Jn 10:10!
Why JESUS said Matt 7:14!
U sure? Who "possesses" u? "One with whom?" A LIE=SATAN? The Nicene Council has "bewitched" u!
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interesting. And well said.
RELIGION (man) taught not SPIRIT (JESUS aka HOLY SPIRIT) taught! JESUS SAID (thru Paul) in Eph 4:4-6 ONE SPIRIT; & I Cor Chptr 12 ("MANY GLORIES;" MORE THAN 3 OR TRINITY)(v12)LOOK "...AND SO IS CHRIST!"
HEAR?"ONE SPIRIT" W/MANY"GLORIES"AS CHRI