Sin is defined as "transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). But where there is no law there is no transgression - Romans 4:15 What your parents do, or what Adam did, does it make you a sinner at birth? If sin is an act of disobedience to the will of God by choice, then why shift the blame? The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. - Ezekiel 18:20
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It is true false pagan Catholic concepts and doctrines have infiltrated and hi-jacked what is called "Christianity," and that is why infant baptism is mandated for babies to "cover" them for being "damned" from birth. Of course this notion is false.
I Tim 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, & to come into the KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH." How can an infant "Come into the KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH?" Get real!
II Sam 12:21-23 David KNOWS "child in the arms of GOD" hadn't reached understanding!
IIsam12:21-23 has nothing to do with the child being a born sinner. However the child was like what David said in Psalms 51:5, Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. Bathsheba and dad had sinned the child not so.
ALL kids "forgiven" IF they don't have the capability to "come into the knowledge" so says II Sam 12:21-23! U can't "twist" TRUTH! Rm 5:12 "DEATH (sin) passed upon ALL men..." Ps 51:5 & 58:3 say SO!
You LIE (SATAN)!
You are not being civil, and care nothing about what the scripture is really saying I'll leave you to your misguided name calling.
Both Catholics & Christians have the 'salvation' message of Jesus seriously twisted through 'the trinity', baptism and the resurrection. It is the reason why so many have deconverted into kabbalah. Do your research - Jesus REAL message is powerfu
I agree with your statements about babies. I agree with your comments about Catholics and Christians. I have studied your referenced religion and don't agree with it.
You guys are calling GOD A LIAR! I started to write a HUB (flesh) entitled "I'll kick your A**!" but HS stopped me! Well, when unsaved IF u talked about my father (FATHER) the way y'all do, that's what I would have done!
I feel the same NOW!
Norine, no one has called God a liar. It is the spirit of anger, hostility and ignorance that has clouded your mind. Repent from your Pentecostal oneness modalist doctrine.
IF you don't BELIEVE WORD, you do! How many Scriptures did I give testifying that GOD is ONE SPIRIT & came in the GLORY OF or "AS OF" JESUS CHRIST? You don't accept WORD; therefore, call my FATHER - A LIAR!
Now how do I feel (Ps 139:22)?
Repent from your Pentecostal oneness modalist doctrine!
Just accept Norines psychotic rantings with a pinch of salt and a good laugh. That's about the best they will do for you.
P&N and Jonny, as scattered as Norine seems to be - she neither needs to repent (judge as much as she does, much?) nor is she psychotic - shes impassioned for good reason. "Spirit" exists even if her diehard focus is on a 'wrong' salvation messag
I love u girl for u know TRUTH but have allowed Satan (defying Scripture doing Holy Spirit's job) enter his playground (mind)! Spirit already KNOW what u r "Researching!" We teach same but diff routes; man v Spirit w/exception of no HELL! Heb 13:8!
You know, for some dumb reason I love you, too - I used to freakin BE you; which is why I stick up for you, sometimes. You're at the end of one road & ready to take off onto another - but, you're still stuck in muck. No need to worry about me. :)
Is 42:8 "I am the LORD, that is my name: and I WILL NOT give to another, neither my praise to graven images." You see? I KNOW GOD! HE doesn't want anyone doing HIS JOB or "sharing HIS Glory!" Please STOP! I love you!
Rich all humans have Adams Dent.
Jesus as perfect adopted Adams. Imperfect offsprings. because he wants us to continue life.
You can't tell the these guys NOTHING they don't believe what WORD SAYS just what they "feel" & when not in agreement, you stand in danger of being deleted causing others to "STUMBLE" which is AGAINST HIS WORD TOO!
Norine, figure out why your God needs vindicating before you start tossing stones. Quoting WORD of word out of context is bad. Come on girls share with the forum what sin/sins did you do at 2 minutes old?
You speaking of your "god" who needs "vindicating?" You have Bible that says yours does? You got to stop believing those "translations" & rely on the HOLY SPIRIT then you become Christ-like! I knew there was a problem!
The holy spirit make up that deception? You are the big 1Tim3:16 person with her KJV saying God was manifested in the flesh, vindicated etc.I asked you to explain, forgot all ready? Must be your infant sins catching up.
Holy Spirit doesn't LIE (Num 23:19)! Translations do! Did they "twist" Jn 1:14; Lk 1:35; Jn14:9-11; Jn 20:28; Titus 2:13; Rev 1:8; 22:13; Is 9:6; 43:10-11; 44:6 2Pet 1:1; Is 44:24; Jn 1:3; Col 1:16; Jn 8:24; Jn 10:30-33; Heb1:8-9;Col 2:9;Phil2:5-7+
One at a time Norine. What is wrong with 1tim3:16 in your KJV.
Original sin, what was your in the womb or shortly after birth?
Is that all u can take; one @ a time? U study! U should know these! U studying wrong thing (foreign languages) & not the most foreign of all languages to u - Holy Spirit! Get w/HIM & you'll "understand!"
I see that your answer to incorrect assumption about scripture is to run to another, I can understand this. I also understand the way you eat an elephant is one bite at a time.
Rich: if you want to believe man's "translation" of a bible (1Tim3:16) vs Holy Spirit & want to believe "your interpretation" of WORD vs what IS WRITTEN (Rm 5:12), your "choice!" "ALL" have to stand before judgment seat of Christ, baby 2! Why?
The False Original sin doctrine is like knocking over a domino, what follows is many incorrect beliefs. These seem like an elephant but are just one misunderstanding upon another. You are right it is your choice.
Exactly, along with teaching kids that they are ALL born as 'unworthy sinners' - Christianity is actually beating every single one of their followers into submission without laying a finger on them. I used to be a C, and that is SO HARD to see.
We are all born in sin. But there is the age of accountability. Babies and very young are not accountable. Nobody is "extra-sinful".
"All born in sin" - Amen!
I don't see "age of accountability" in Scripture! As GOD "looks @ the heart," (II Sam 16:7), HE also "looks @ understanding" (Eph 1:17)!
Who knows BUT GOD when child comes into "understanding?"
Next Rich not all created from the heavenly Father die.
Even though satan will die he has along with his band of demons have outlived humans. Not dead yet.
Jesus is now granted immortality from his faithful course and love for the Heavenly Father.
K&T: I don't care WHO you're "talking to" it should be done "decently (According to WORD) & IN ORDER" (ICor14:40) for "GOD is NOT the author of confusion" (ICor14:33)!
So, who do you represent?
Please tell me that the queen of hub pages confusion is not wagging her finger at someone else?
Is that how you see me? No one else does; what's your problem?
I give WORD & IF one can "hear," he's blessed; otherwise, Satan loves you & will continue to use you to be a "facetious" mean, deleting, prideful man who represents him!
No one else does? OK
It doesn't matter what ppl call me!JESUS SAID"If the world hates you, ye know that it hated me BEFORE it hated u.If ye were of the world, the world would love his own:but bcuz ye are not of the world, but I have chosen u out of the world therefore..
What costume are you wearing now, oh ya that of a martyr, that is not an original sin is it? What are your original sins, the laws you broke?
Not the one you're wearing claiming JESUS!
You bore me! I'm going to bed!
I've given u enough homework - many Scriptures testifying JESUS IS GOD!
As usual you want to make Jesus God big surprise.
This question is not about Oneness doctrine, it is about original sin. What is/are your original sins?
Oneness doctrine I never heard of before coming to HP! "Revelation" is my life not of man!
Why do "ALL" (babies too) have to "stand before the judgment seat of Christ" (2Cor5:10) if babies sinless?
Gut "feelings" is not WORD!
Nice but Nope!
Doesn't matter if you know what your incorrect beliefs are called or not, they are oneness doctrine, now you know. You mistake your gut feelings constantly as the HS. Your revelations are nothing but thoughts and many are wrong but you are stubborn.
Despite the fact that "the oppression of religion" isn't a biblical term, you are right on this one.
True, Adam's sin was his own; no inherited sin (Ezekiel 18:20). Sin is an action, Paul explains this further in Romans 7, also backed up by 1 John 3:4 as transgression of the law. We will ALL be judged for our own sins unless we repent of them.
Norine, I'm coming to realize that English may not be your first language. Hostility, ignorance, arrogance and anger makes for an obvious communication barrier. You have been told that your comments are not welcome. Put this into Google translate.
The sinner and the righteous both die. One's condition when they die determines what will happen later. Because sin entered the world by choice the unborn child is given the same choice to sin or be righteous and blameless. Christ chose righteousness
Believe whatever you wish to. But it is all, obviously, a load of superstitious nonsense to think a fictitious, human-designed and Trumped-up "god" is going to take revenge upon the likeness of "his" being for being totally independent.
I don't agree with "Moroni" but I do believe that children are not born sinners. Picking a specific age for something to happen is making a lot of assumptions so that is more than likely not right either.
I don't think God wastes his time thinking about sin all the time. He's got a lot of work to do, like running the universe.
I agree God is not the one that needs to think about sin, we are.
Luk 12:5 "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
K&T, hopefully you can find this... I can't answer u on thread where u asked why 393 AD. The bible that you use today is ancestor of that first bible... previously the 66 semi-related books were not bound in a single volume.
You guys r worrying about the wrong thgs! Book not real=Holy Spirit SAID HE WOULD "teach all thgs" so u DON'T BELIEVE (Heb 3:19)!
Sin="I will remember their sins no more" (Heb10:17) so AGAIN you DON'T BELIEVE (Heb 3:19)!
"UNBELIEF" then Lk12:5!
We are believers we believe you know not what you cut and paste. One thing at a time, vindication, do a study why God doesn't need it.
Why don't u try to "understand" the list of Scriptures I've given but possibly can't since you display you didn't "WAIT" (Acts 1:4) for HELP from the Holy Spirit (Jn 14:26;16:13)! Those who did don't have problem "understanding" although CAPPED!
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Do you believe this?
IT IS WRITTEN + other "witness Scriptures!" I've given Jn 1:14 "And the Word (GOD) was made flesh..." What part of that don't u understand? Is 9:6 "He shall be called ...MIGHTY GOD, EVERLASTING "FATHER"..." What part of that don't u understand?
I'll take that as "OK Rich you got me I have been believing KJV in an area I should have been questioning". To use one of your catch phrases study Norine study.
Nope! Satan got u using his strategy (your mind) to misinterpret Scripture justifying w/man's translations vs Holy Spirit! Not lol!
GO BACK find Holy Spirit to HELP! Ask HIM for "guidance" w/PURE HEART! Can u?
You need to stop the satan concerns you have already shown a lack of discernment, your thoughts and emotions are not the Holy Spirit but nice try.
Thanks for your comment Benji. God does not cast babies into hell.
You were blameless in your ways FROM THE DAY YOU WERE CREATED, till unrighteousness was found in you - Ezekiel 28:15
Who was Ezekiel talking to? A cherub (an unearthly being) not a man (Ezk 28:14;16)!
You've got to stop taking Scripture "out of context!"
Ezekiel is speaking in figurative (metaphorical) language to the Prince and the King of Tyre who represent the people of Tyre/Phonaecia. They are both represented as mortal men (dying, turned to ashes). Ezekiel 28:9-10; 28:18-19.
Jesus DIED (flesh) as the cherub (an unearthly being; not man28:14;16)28:9-10; 18-19!
You see? That's the "GLORY" of GOD in operation as with JESUS CHRIST!
Heb 13:8 "JESUS CHRIST the same yesterday, today & forever" still operating in "GLORIE
Jesus died bcuz he was nailed to a cross since they didn't like his message that people didn't NEED pagan rituals. The 'belief' he was making peeps AWARE of was about our KoG/christos within - not HIM, directly. Corrected interpretation - find it!
Jesus a cherub??? You are being nonsensical, plus you are cherry-picking without surrounding context. Hebrews 13:8 is about the FAITH of Jesus Christ that is the same yesterday today and forever. Read the previous verse 13:7 and it becomes obvious.
I didn't say that! I said "a cherub"- The King in Ezk (an unearthly being) was as JESUS-seen in flesh but "an unearthly being!" Scripture LIES? Mal 3:6 "I the LORD do NOT CHANGE..."Heb13:8; Jm 1:17!
BELIEVE WORD-not *me*
GOD operates in "GLORIES!"
Actually, we are all 'cherubs' - angels with human bodies, exactly like he is/was. Every. single. one. of. us. That was Jesus' original message, that we are 'just like him', but we don't realize it - because religion keeps us in the dark about it.
I do believe Scripture, but not presupposing your twisted Pentecostal oneness modalist doctrine into it. In Malachi 3:6, It is Yahweh (God) who is speaking, not Yahshua. Check your Hebrew concordance. You are not rightly dividing the word of truth.
P&N: I asked u to create a link! You've GOT TO BELIEVE SCRIPTURE ="ONE" SPIRIT not Catholic thinking (3)!
MF: Rt killed bcuz chg'd their "religion!" BUT "unless" we BELIEVE what HE taught, KoG not activated w/in us but "lies DORMANT" as in unblv
Why talk in gibberish? You make no sense. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace - 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. - 2 Timothy 1:7
You've both proven that you have that book embedded in your mind. NT was written over 300 years after Christ's death; and the church destroyed & replaced ALL 'original' texts with their own pagan ones - look up 'Imperial Cult' & how gospels h
CAT: Don't u BELIEVE? Your comments do NOT display BELIEF! Not in a Book, but the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT to "reveal" ALL THINGS? Don't you BELIEVE in GOD?
What that means is that the Principal can record each year and write what he thinks is most remarkable or most remembered in his school files.
Our Heavenly Father gives us just enough info from the past as references to guide us
If we value him.
Benji: I Cor 7:14 *1* of the couple MUST be a BELIEVER n Gospel of Christ* (Gal 1:6-9) or not married & "unclean" children!
Now where does that leave MOST?
If neither parent BELIEVER* & children "unclean" how can they be "sinless?"
With your incorrect foundation everything you try to build falls apart with just a glance at your claims. The false "man's doctrine" of original sin has blinded you. We are trying to do what Ananias did for Paul but you won't permit. Your choice.
"Misinterpretation" of Scripture can do NOTHING for me! I don't look at LINKS, listen to MEN, go to SEMINARIES, listen to PREACHERS, PASTORS, PRIESTS, POPES nor FOLLOW TRADITION (as u can see) BUT Gal 1:12 "...by "revelation" from JESUS CHRIST!"
Norine, I understand that Paul is talking about the children of believers. But what does that do to our theology if some children are already holy just because of the faith of one parent? It just shows that God has a plan greater than He's revealed
There was no difference between us or Jesus once we were born, it is the choices we made later in life that separated us from God, choices that Jesus when tempted in every way did not chose, resulting in a sinless life.
Nudely why do you start me from 393 AD
I am way before that error.
Besides any human no matter how intelligent is still imperfect from Adam .
Means they are limited , they error, they die.
Not a 100 % source to rely on.
YHWH says he made the heavens and earth in 6 days, Allah says he made them in 6 days... I think what we need is a good old fashioned TNA caged wrestling match between the two, and settle this dispute honorably. The 1st one bleeding and pinned loses.
Nudely I like discussion, not debate.
The main point is truth. I value that.
Well you sure don't action like JESUS if not "debate" When one withstands another it is to oppose with determined effort Gal 2:11 "But when Peter came to Antioch, I WITHSTOOD HIM TO THE FACE, BECAUSE HE WAS TO BLAME."
Is that a "discussion?"
You are not Paul and don't have his discernment. This is not Antioch or Galatia. What you read as dogmatic confrontation was more than likely a conversation without hair pulling and the lot.
Please give Scripture which says "babies are born innocent?"
If you can't, wishful thinking!
Norine, stop damning innocent babies and hindering little children. Repent! Yahshua said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
R we Lk1:15 "filled w/Holy Spirit fm mom?" If so, don't need to be "born again!"
Was mom Lk 1:35 "overpowered by the Holy Spirit" for conception?lol
Babies are marked genetically imperfect.
Which means they have Adams mark.
Why do we have babies who are born with genetic abnormalities.
Which prove a point it's not what a baby does which he does nothing it what he inherits.
You will find the sin gene right next to the gay gene. The only thing we got from Adam was death, righteous or not all die. (See Christ, Abraham, Peter, James etc.) The trick is are we raised from the dead to eternal life as Christ is.
What ever you call it Rich it still exist.
Jesus only died a human death for good reasons. 1 to purchase humans from eternal death.
2 . To return to a spirit body and present this value to the Heavenly Father.
These are the basics why.
Getting a little off track, the gene "human" explanation was said tongue in cheek. There is no sin or gay gene. Babies are born as sinless as Christ was. The hope believers should have is that Christ was like us in everyway yet ...................
Not true Rich then explain why babies are born with genetic abnormalities ?
True they do not act out sin .but they inherit traits.
So until you can explain that you are not correct.
So far what ever a person does sexual is their decision .
So babies without abnormalities are sinless and those with abnormalities are sinners? Where is that in the scripture?
A sexual decision can be a sin, what decision as a babe made you a sinner?
K&T is RIGHT according to Scripture (Ps 51:5; 58:3; Rm 5:12) we are "born sinners!" We can't change WORD! No matter how we "feel!"
K&T: re: born w/abnormalities-"Who sinned this [blind] man r his parents JESUS Said "For my GLORY"(paraphJn9:1
KT and you are both wrong, those scriptures if understood do not support your catholic beliefs. Norine have you figured out why your god needs to be vindicated yet?
Jehovah Witnesses and Pentecostal oneness cults are both wrong with their man-made doctrines.
Rich you did not answer the question.
Why are babies born with birth defects ? Planks you are not answering questions but throwing stones in the name of religion.
Is that the way to answer your questions? I never mention your religion .
There is no way I can answer with scripture, I'd have to make something up, kind of like the question you made up. The bible doesn't address genetics sorry. It does address sin, breaking of the law, what laws did you break as a babe?
Since when is having a birth defect a sin? Sin is a choice.
You guys r IGNORANT to WORD. Stop DELETING & u might learn something! Men!
Birth defects ARE mentioned in Scripture (Jn9:2-3)!
I don't see where either of you have provided Scripture saying "Born Sinless!"
Tell me please your law breaking as you screamed your first breath? Tell me the sins of your birth? Don't be calling people ignorant, you still have not answered why your God needs to be vindicated. Your scripture doesn't say you were.
I said MY GOD was "manifested in the flesh" (ITim3:16)! What does your god say of Jn1:14? Man couldn't find a word to "twist" via translation? See! Listen to Holy Spirit not man's translations! U don't BELIEVE Rm 5:12? I'll kick ur..LORD forgive me!
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Does not say we are born sinners.
Death by sin passed upon ALL men via Adam so, if born, ALL have sinned! What part of that don't u understand?
Don't worry infants don't have the capacity to understand & until then MERCY!
What a wonderful GOD we serve!
"Don't worry infants don't have the capacity to understand & until then MERCY!" Did you make this up with the Catholic handbook of how to rationalize what isn't true to start with. What sin did you commit as a baby? One lie begets another.
You & your brother in crime need to READ Scripture & BELIEVE what IT SAID rather than "interpreting" IT to mean what you "feel; like Glenis!
IF ALL would GO BACK & start your "RELIGIOUS" journey over to a "SPIRITUAL" one, WORD would be "
I can see you have no desire for discussion as your superior knowledge will not permit. Let me know if you decide other wise.
This is not a "discussion" as FACTS (WORD/Scriptures) have "PROVEN" ur analogy wrong yet no decision has been reached that WORD is right!
You are as "man," - "Prideful" & as such GOD can not use (I Jn 2:16)!
Fabulous , the world would be ignorant and lost without this lady's Norine William expertise teaching...Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy.
We become sinners once we sin, not before. It is a free-will act of transgression of God's laws that leads to a sin nature by actively and deliberately making sinful choices. We have to accept some responsibility for our lives.
Dash: RT! "until one is aware of & acknowledges GOD you're a sinner" (UNBELIEF)! "Even if you're a [proclaimed] Christian [& don't BELIEVE Gal 1:6-9], you're still a sinner." RT AGAIN! Amen!
P&N: Not "once we sin" but we're born sinners
Either men are born with a sinful nature and thus Yahshua was born with a sinful nature, or Yahshua was not born with a sinful nature, which would mean that no human being has ever been born with a sinful nature.
Who "begat" JESUS? HIMSELF (aka GOD; I Tim 3:16/HOLY SPIRIT; Matt 1:20)! Then HOW can you make that statement? Lk 18:27 "Not impossible for GOD!" Are your "teachings" more important than what IS WRITTEN (Rm 5; Ps51:5)? You don't CARE do you?
Is Yahshua God, or is Yahshua's God your God?
Yahshua stated,‘I am ascending to MY FATHER and your Father, to MY GOD and your God.’” - John 20:17
Grace to you and peace from God our Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ. - 2 Corinthians 1:2
"The "Man" JESUS CHRIST was talking while THE SAME SPIRIT was EVERYWHERE else! Can't you wrap your peanut brain around the "Capabilities" (GLORIES) of the CREATOR?
You've been "brainwashed" by RELIGION (Three entities or "TRINITY") but Jer23:24!
"THE SAME SPIRIT was EVERYWHERE else!"
Perhaps today you can be civil and explain why the "same spirit" your god would need vindicating in your KJV version of 1timothy 3:16
Jer 23:24 has nothing to with the conversation.
EVERYWHERE ELSE? Jer 23:24 says HE "fills heaven & earth" SO "EVERYWHERE ELSE" FOOL!
"Vindicating?" That's your problem! You don't KNOW the POWER of GOD! You've placed HIM "in a box" via "the letter" (II Cor 3:6)!
ISAIAH 14:27! READ IT!
lashing out with irrelevant scripture quotes doesn't answer why your bible says God needs vindicating. God fills the heavens and the earth not His son Jesus, the one that needed to be vindicated in the spirit.
Romans 5:12 states that all became sinners because "all sinned," not because Adam made them guilty of his sin. He brought sin into the world, and that is the way all become sinners. Sin is a choice, not that of Adam or parents.
You're misinterpreting Rm 5:12 "By one man sin entered into the world & death by sin: & so death passed upon all men for [so] that all have sinned" otherwise Ps 51:5 LIED "I was shapen in iniquity..."
Dash RT "We must be born again" (Jn 3:3)!
No misinterpretation. Yahshua partook of the same nature as every other human being. The fact that he never sinned proves he did not possess a sinful nature thus proving that not one baby has ever been born into this world a sinner.
No HE didn't! What other "man" hasn't sinned(Rm3:22-23)? How can HOLY (GOD) be compared to "man" (Lk18:27)GOD (aka Holy Spirit) conceived HIMSELF(I Tim3:16)& ain't NOTHING unholy about MY GOD (PURE; Prov 30:5)!
You're upsetting me (Ps 139:22)!
Christ God's promise finally came in the flesh. Christ was vindicated by the spirt, (God doesn't need vindicating), Christ was seen by angels, and man (God made angels and was already seen by angels) Christ take up, God was already up.
You FOOL! If GOD SAID there is ONE SPIRIT (Eph 4:4-6) & HE "fills the heaven & earth" (Jer 23:24),why would u say this?GOD "Promised" HE would come thru prophets Is 7:14;9:6; Micah5:2;Zech9:9;Is 53:3-7;50:6; Zech12:10 & HE DID (I Tim 3:16
I have explained 1 timothy as simply as I can, if you don't want to believe it flooding your answers with more scriptures will not change what 1 timothy 3:16 actually means.
I Tim 3:16 means EXACTLY what IT SAYS: "GOD was "manifest" in the flesh" as JESUS CHRIST for who else was "justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, PREACHED unto Gentiles, believed on IN THE WORLD, RECEIVED UP INTO GLORY!"
U IGNORANT FOOL!
"Was vindicated in the Spirit"
The God I serve does not need to be vindicated I'm sorry to hear the god you worship does.
Nice NW the Bible speaks of outcome to blunt calling names, so let both religious and secular world know that 'whoever says you FOOL (moros= a wicked reprobate, destitute of all spirituality), shall be unable to escape the hell (Gehenna ) of fire.
If "man" is IGNORANT to HIS WORD; Paul (aka JESUS speaking thru him) called them "FOOLS!" Gal 3:1 "O FOOLISH Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the TRUTH..." I use the word FOOL in the same context to "bewitched individuals"
You need to bridle your anger, don't blame Paul you are not Paul and you are not talking to Galatians. Back to original sin, or you can take a stab at why your God needs to be vindicated. Jesus became flesh and he was vindicated. Not God.
When u CHANGE WORD remember what Rev 22:18-19 says! Sorry for u!
Again, I Tim 3:16 says GOD (Did u hear?) "GOD" was manifest in flesh" & there's NOTHING u can do about IT! Jn 1:14 says "& the WORD (GOD) was made flesh...&we beheld HIS "G
I'm sorry Norine, but your anger, arrogance and ignorance towards others will no longer be accepted in this discussion.
If your bible says God was manifested in the flesh keep reading and figure out why God needs to vindicated in the spirit. Your bible (KJV) is a bad translation in this particular issue. KJV translators were "Trinity" folks.
Jerome mistranslated into Latin as “in whom all sinned,” of Rom 5:12. Greek construction eph’ ho (i) (ἐφ᾽ ᾧ) as ‘in whom,’ rather than its correct meaning in this context of ‘because.’ This is the reason that Augustine and you make your claims.
Did they change John 1:14; Is 9:6; 43:10-11; Jn 8:58; Jn 10:30-33; Col 2:9; Heb 1:8-9; Jn 20:28...+
I've given Scripture after Scripture! Your "translations" couldn't have changed ALL! If so, you need to talk to the Holy Spirit!
Until you understand 1timothy 3:16 there is no need for you to kick up your scripture count.
There's "no need" to BELIEVE all those Scriptures (WORD)?
Who are you SATAN?
I Cor 10:21 says "Ye CANNOT drink he cup of the Lord, & the cup of devils; ye CANNOT be partakers of the Lord's table, & of the table of devils."
Did they chg that
No one doubts the word, it is your keyboard that is in error. No discernment when and when not to quote something. It is good to know something it is better to known when to tell someone that information.
The genetic make up "theory" would mean there is a sin gene. Knowing that Christ was born a man and tempted in every way and did not sin debunks the gene or I was born that way belief. The go and sin no more statement of Christ debunks the sin gene.
Jesus Father was not of human flesh origin.
His Father is Jehovah.
Planted in Mary.
His Father is Perfect in every since.
So Jesus even though born in flesh was not equal to a regular human.
K&T, If Yahshua was not equal to a man, then how would we explain his sinless nature. He would either be born without the sin gene incapable of sinning, or he is "God." Neither option would work if we are to follow his example.
HE IS GOD!
Why won't you accept Scripture? Jn 1:14; I Tim 3:16; Rev 1:17-18; Is 43:10-11; Is 9:6; Matt 1:23; Jn 8:58; Jn 10:30-33; Rev 2:8; Jn 14:9-11; Jn 20:28 Phil 2:5-7; Titus 2:13; Heb 1:8-9; +
You can't "follow HIS example" IF unbelief!
Click on this link and all the verses you claim that "Jesus is God" are addressed on the left hand side of the page. Your Pentecostal oneness doctrine is modalism heresy. http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trin...
Norine, you need to repent for trying to force your heavy man-made Pentecostal oneness modalism indoctrination on others.
God was the father and mother of Adam and in spite of that he chose to sin. Jesus came out of Mary after 9 months born just like us, flesh and blood, tempted in every way. His choice was to be obedient and not sin. Remember God cannot be tempted.
True God the Father Jehovah does not be tempted. But His Son Jesus was challenged by satan.
Jesus refused satan offers.
Nudely we have access to Hebrew , Greek , Aramaic translations.
The bibles today our modern translations but there are errors.
But not the principles ingredients is still intact sorta speak.
Who cares? Holy Spirit "REVEALS" or are you not a BELIEVER of John 14:26 & 16:13?
Jesus was tempted so ........ He was not God, correct. Now what are your sins at birth, what law did you break? Norine the Holy Spirit does a lot of things but incoherent scripture quoting is with a caps lock key stuck is not one of them. ysab?
Satan KNEW JESUS was GOD in (LISTEN) "FLESH" & that's the part of JESUS Satan was working on - THE "FLESH" like he works on all of us & u're letting him win by not believing GOD'S WORD! BLASPHEMY! I'll klck your...LORD FORGIVE ME!
Ooh ! Ooh ! As the little girl or boy says Somebodies cussing !
You two shame on you!
K&T: I told them earlier (he deleted) when I was a child & someone talked about my father I'd tell them that! I feel the same way about Jehovah "I'll kick their ..." for calling HIM a LIAR! We should feel same way when some 1 speaks against F
Satan knew more than you, he knew he was tempting the son of God, satan knows God cannot be tempted. Even the demons know Jesus is the son of God. Now back to the sins you did at birth?
No! Satan knew more than u that JESUS had a "FLESH" side although GOD IN THE FLESH (Heb4:15)! Got WORD for that 2! READ IT!
GOD doesn't leave me alone to "heathens!" Notice that?
You're TWISTED & there r too many Scriptures to PROVE u are!
R u Christians seriously still believing tales from 2 - 3,000 years ago that involve demons and devils? ARE U SERIOUS? Of course BABIES are innocent! Use your skulls for something other than foreign superstitions! Please join us in the 21st century!
Yeah Nude! "Common sense" tells u babies r born innocent but we're talking what WORD (GOD) SAYS! However, that explain why Rich feels that way too (common sense) bcuz "Birds of a feather flock together" (Ps 119:63)!
U did stop by (Job 1:6)!
Jas 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
Satan cannot tempt God, yet he tempted his Son with scripture 3X.
Being the main humans anything that effected them would effect anything coming from their bodies .their offspring was effected by their sentence of dying forever.
But if a purchaser could adopt us from Adam we could continue to live.
KT, the adoption has conditions and that is that we return to our original condition, without sin. If we were created by God to sin all the blood in the world would not change that. The blood is for forgiveness, we still have to repent and can.
Heb 4:15 "High Priest" (GOD) FELT our infirmities, but was TEMPTED like we are, yet w/o sin." Half man/half GOD! Why u thk JESUS judges right bcuz HE knows what we feel (in the flesh)!
"Adoption" has 1 condition-"BELIEF" (Heb 3:19)! Repent=BELIEF!
The doctrine started with
Church Father Augustine claimed that baptism removes the stain of original sin and that infants who die unbaptized are damned.
That belief promoted the practice of baptizing babies as quickly as po
Norine if you don't repent you will not be adopted, sorry that is the way it is, you don't get to continue in sin a be part of the kingdom of God.
The problem with your opinion is not based on shifting the blame to babies.
The whole problem which you ignore is genectic sin.
Again if I took ink and and poured it on a stack of paper how many pieces would be effected by ink .the first the 2, 3, 4,
Please provide Scripture which says "Babies are born sinless?"
The idea that an innocent baby is born damned is just disgusting really. Who can look into the face of a tiny baby and see a foul sinner? I guess Norine does. Repent! for we will see aborted babies in the Kingdom of God.
You sure will! Because they never acquired an "understanding!"
Please provide Scriptures which state "Babies are NOT born sinners!"
Dear Augustine of Hippo, please see these 3 witness and repent of your unbelief and apostate doctrine.Lk1:15 John full of the holy spirit in the womb.Mk10:10 the kingdom of God belongs to such as these and 1Pet2:22 the man Jesus who never knew sin.
Rich, See response under Glenix!
What Mk10:10 have to do w/born sin free?
No matter how u "try" u can't chg Scripture! Thanks to Adam, we were "born a sinner!" Provide Scriptures other than GOD "manifesting HIMSELF" in flesh & his forerunner(J
Christ (a man) was not born a sinner nor John nor other babies.
"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." The zipper is showing on your sheep costume.
How do u justify Ps 51:5; 58:3; Rm 5:12? Do they LIE? JESUS' birth was 1 of a kind whereby the Holy Spirit overpowered Mary; Same w/Jn! Did the Holy Spirit overpower our parents? lol
Adam was one of a kind but still a man just like Jesus. What law did you break as a new born infant that made you a sinner at birth?
My Question to you Rich what sin did these children commit born with genectic diseases? They did nothing but Adam did it for them or us
We come from his dented pan.
Adam was like GOD until disobeyed then passed sin to ALL men (Rm 5:12)! NO ONE "BUT GOD" was EVER conceived by the HOLY SPIRIT except Adam (lost that) & JESUS.Jn"leaped in womb" @ that pt filled w/HS not during conception! Man=sin! How born holy?
Your romans quote does not say we are born sinners. Name the law you transgressed at birth. While you are trying to find that work out God having to be vindicated.
You say your god needs vindicating due to man's translation of WORD! Sorry! I get mine straight fm Holy Spirit (WORD) & HE doesn't LIE as man!
Mom/Dad had sex (man=sin) I was conceived in sin due to the fall of Adam! WORD says SO & u can't
Mom and dad having sex is not a sin if they are married. Even if they are not that doesn't effect you, try again what was your sin or law that you broke. You are the 1tim3:6 quoting person not me. I told you KJV was wrong what say you?
I'm the Jn 1:14; Lk 1:35; 1Tim 3:16; Is 43:10-11;Matt1:23;Is9:6Phl2:5-7;Col 2:9; Heb 1:8-9;Rev 1:8;22:13 quoting persons also! JESUS IS GOD!
GREATEST ALLEGORY in SCRIPTURE!
Caps perceived as shouting: LISTEN! ADAM PASSED SIN TO ALL MEN (Rm 5:12)!
You have become a resounding gong, nothing you say can be taken seriously. you are over 110 incorrectly quoted verses now. Good job.
I give GOD'S WORD = HOLY SPIRIT & YOU DEFY WHICH IS BLASPHEMY calling WORD "not serious!"
What do they teach you at that church?
I very much respect the written word of God. questioning your misuse of it doesn't mean I don't take it seriously. It is you that is in question not God, His son or the written word. Your exclusive claims to understanding is what is not serious.
I give Scripture! Do you?Now provide Scripture saying "Babies are born sinless?" Ezk 28:15 "Thou WAS made perfect in thy ways fm the day thou wast created, TILL INIQUITY WAS FOUND IN THEE." After iniquity ALL born sinners & ALL must stand before
Eze 28:15 "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you. Does not say babies are born sinners. You and I were blameless until we sinned.
Amen! IF we BELIEVE!
P&N: "The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies" (Ps 58:3)!
IT IS WRITTEN!
Don't be silly. Psalm 58:3 is written is in figurative language. You should know babies don't speak lies when they are born because babies can't speak yet.
U can ask a child if he ate the cake w/proof of cake on mouth & he'll LIE & say NO! Did u teach him? NO! We're born LYING & u know it!
No matter HOW MANY FACTS (Scriptures) are given, U "sink your heels in deeper!"
Don't be silly. We don't give cake to babies as soon as they are born and question them. I suggest doing a study on figurative language in Scripture.
It is your knowledge of the scripture is what we are trying to help you with. You refuse to study the several links provided. You haven't resolve your misunderstanding of 1 Timothy 3:16.
You can't "help me" with another TWISTED "man" interpretation of WORD! Did I not say "a child!" Since MEN don't know about raising a child (SAD), ask ur wife for they LIE & parents didn't teach! Resolve your understanding of Jn 1:14???
If you won't look than you don't know. Your comments are unfounded.
Now you want to discuss a child (not babies in the womb) and men not knowing anything about raising them. you are diverting again.
My understanding? 1Timothy 3:16 work on it.
U guys have character of Scribes & Pharisees (SATAN/hate WORD)!
If u look back, I said, "U can ask a child..." The FOOL P&N said "baby!"
Explain Jn 1:14??? + Jn 8:58;10:30-33;Matt 1:23;
You are name calling, Before you say Jesus did it, you are not Jesus and we are not Pharisees. Resolve how you are going to apologize to God for saying He needs to be vindicated. You still don't get 1 Timothy 3:16
ANYTIME I give HIS WORD JESUS is talking (Jn 1:1;14)! You are SATAN for I Cor 10:21 says "You can't eat at the Lord's table & the devil's!" You DEFY WHAT IS WRITTEN; you are SATAN!
Why does your god need vindicating? Study I know you can figure out where you went wrong.
Resolve 1timothy 3:16 then you might understand Jn 1:14
So I Tim 3:16 & Jn 1:14 BOTH LIED? BOTH said "GOD was manifest in the flesh!" EITHER GOD LIED or "YOU ARE A LIAR" from HELL (SATAN)!
Now "try & FIGURE OUT where u went wrong" (BLASPHEMING DEMON)!
Your same bible (your WORD) say He was justified in the spirit, God doesn't need to be justified so perhaps your bible should say he(Jesus) was made flesh, a man would need to be justified in the spirit.Jesus was a man.
I know you can figure this out
I'm sorry Norine, but your words are angry loud and hostile. Please move on somewhere else to vent.
"Christ died for all of our sins past, present and future."
This belief can cause an incorrect attitude towards sin. Read the below Hub.
I agree with your statement about children.
IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins - 1 John 1:9
But whoever lacks these traits is nearsighted to the point of blindness, having forgotten that he has been cleansed from his PAST SINS. - 2 Peter 1:9
Are you all NEW COVENANT believers? READ Jer 31:34; Heb 8:12; 10:17! Why Rich would you say that statement is wrong? Ps 103:12-READ!
GOD SAID "past, present, & future" "I will remember their sins NO MORE" under NEW COVENANT!
Original sin is the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.
Excellent study materials in the below link
BIG "PROBLEM:" You study "man," I study GOD (WORD)! ONLY HIS WORD STANDS!
Forget the other "dung" (aka shit; Phil 3:8)!
Catholic faith & their "spin offs" is the BIG PROBLEM for those who "wants to" BELIEVE!
READ WORD & WORD ONLY!
Php 3:8 ....... and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ.
Learn who Jesus is and you can gain Christ and feel the same way that Paul does.
You know what? We are discussing something that DOESN'T EXIST "IF" one is "IN CHRIST" or "A BELIEVER!" “And their sin and iniquities I will remember no more” (Jer 31:34; Heb 8:12; 10:17)!
Does WORD LIE?
Therefore,who doesn't BELIEVE Paul (aka GOD)?
You are being silly now, Paul is not (AKA God) but you know that.
The topic is original sin, read the links provided might help you lose the catholic doctrine you are defending.
Catholic faith? YOU need to stop w/Trinitarian (Catholic) thinking that JESUS is NOT GOD (I Tim 3:16)! Acts 9:15 JESUS (aka GOD) SAID "Paul is MY vessel" Gal 1:12 Paul said "I didn't rec fm man but REVELATION fm JESUS" (HS; Jn14:26) who is GOD!
The topic is original sin, read the links provided might help you lose the catholic doctrine you are defending.
Your diverting again as usual.
YOU keep reading links (man) as I continue rec "revelation" fm Holy Spirit who says there is ONE SPIRIT while you believe The Father Son & Holy Spirit r "names" & 3 diff entities AS CATHOLICS!
Explain Jn 1:14 since u can't understand I Tim 3
Until you deal with 1timothy 3:16 nothing I say about anything else matters, diversion doe not a lesson teach. If I was God I'd be mad at you for thinking I needed to vindicate myself.
You DEFY HIS WORD "PROVING" U are NOT GOD or "of GOD!" Paul (aka JESUS speaking thru him) "GOD was manifest in the flesh" What part do u want to chg? GOD is "mad at u" for wanting or trying to "change" HIS WORD!
Jesus was manifested in the flesh not God,
Why does your god need vindicating?
Why do u BLASPHEME against the HOLY SPIRIT (aka GOD)? Did not WORD SAY in I Tim 3:16 "GOD" was manifest in the flesh?" Sure HE was "manifest [AS OF] the Son of the only begotten of the Father" (JESUS CHRIST) but JESUS is another of HIS "GLORIES!"
Why does your god need vindicating? You are dodging the question, it is in your bible, "He was vindicated in the spirit", God is spirit and He doesn't need vindicating. Figure that one out.
I'm sorry Norine, but you can take your anger and rage somewhere else.
It's time to say goodbye Norine. No more name calling. Rage and anger with outbursts is not the best way to communicate to others.
Rich you totally do not understand.
Two perfect cake pans one is Adam
One is Jesus.
Adams pan falls get dented. But it still can make cakes , but every cake made has adams dent in the cake . heredity.
Jesus pan never fell. No dents
The dented cake pan supports original sin and like I've already said no scripture to support that, only Catholic doctrine. You catholic? What is your sin from the womb? What is John the Baptist sin from the womb?
Lk 1:41 "Jn leapt in his mother's womb bcuz she (& he since attached) was filled with the Holy Spirit!" When Jn was orig conceived, he was conceived in sin until the above! Why can't u "understand" Scripture? No "guidance?" Didn't "WAIT?"
Sorry sex is not a sin. IF you have been taught that it is just one more thing you are going to have to unlearn. You are in bad company Augustine of Hippo thought sex was bad as well.
See how one "struggles" with TRUTH when didn't "WAIT" (Acts 1:4) for POWER (Acts 1:8) to "understand" (Jn 14:26;16:13)? GO BACK & "WAIT!" It's not a matter of READING (II Cor:63) but "understanding" (Prov4:7)!
You are not answering questions but adding more confusion. What is your sin at birth? What law did YOOOOOOU break as an babe?
I didn't! Adam did! Rm 5:12 "Death by sin passed on ALL men who are born because of Adam's disobedience so whoever's born are sinful!
Don't WORRY a child is given MERCY until they come into an "understanding!"
GOD IS MERCIFUL!
And because of the sin Adam chose to do he died. You also have a choice like Adam to sin or not to sin. From birth you had a choice because you were not born in the womb a sinner.
The sin Adam chose, we “ALL” DIED (“passed on;” Rm5:12)! We have a choice to “BELIEVE or NOT TO BELIEVE” is the ONLY reason we won’t get in (Heb 3:19)! There is “NO SIN” under New Covenant (Jer 31:34; Heb 8:12; 10:17) ONLY “UNBELIEF” (Heb3:19)!
Death was passed on not sin, if sin was passed on Jesus would have sinned as he was born flesh and blood.
GOD KNEW man wouldn't believe HE could do this & is why Lk 1:37 says "With GOD "NOTHING'S" impossible!" Lk1:35 says THE HOLY SPIRIT overshadowed Mary (this Holy thing) was conceived w/no sin by the Holy Spirit!
DON'T LIMIT GOD!
HE FATHERED HIMSE
" HE FATHERED HIMSELF"?! That's what she wrote.
Children are born "sinners" yet ONLY GOD KNOWS what age a child has "knowledge" of HIM; for HE "looks @ the heart" (II Sam 16:7)!
There is no yet, you commenting on what you think God knows, and combining it with a false statement that children are born sinners doesn't make it so. Your scripture reference has nothing to do with the conversation.
Children are "born sinners" or Ps 51:5; 58:3 & Rm 5 LIED! Rm 5:12 "...and so DEATH (aka sin) passed upon "ALL" men (babies too)! However, when 1 gains "KNOWLEDGE" (aka understanding), they're accountable & could be @ age of 3! ONLY GOD KNOWS
None of your scripture references say children are born sinners. You are reading into what you want the scripture to say. Even your KJV doesn't say what you are claiming. Study the links, they will free you from your doctrines of men. (Augustine)
You study "links" from man but I'll stick to WORD!
You clearly don't understand the word so you might want to let "man" help you out.
Frumpleton-voted up :)
The truth of an automobile maker's claims can't be evaluated simply by that company's claims... it takes an OUTSIDE unbiased perspective to evaluate such. THAT is where the bible falls terribly short. FACTS don't support scripture--using term loosely
Again, I use Bill Gates as "an example!" If he has enough resources ($) to gather "FACTS" and NOT "waste his time" worshiping GOD, he would've done so! He is "intelligent" enough to KNOW, this is a SPIRITUAL journey which doesn't rely on "FACTS!"
For example Nudely a cake has basic ingredients no matter what people add.
You may add your own touches. But the cake is still under the added changes .
The theme is still there in the bible and has not changed.
GOD "looks @ the heart" (understanding) of child! Of course, infants don't understand to come into the knowledge of Christ but GOD determines!
ALL "must be born again" (Jn 3:7) once they "come into the knowledge" or "understand!"
Tell us, Norine, how God looked at the hearts of the Amalekite and Midianite children in Numbers 31 and elsewhere. Thank God the bible is fiction stem-to-stern.
Nudely if what you claim was truth, would that also make you also fictional ?
Isa 45:12 I made the earth and created man on it. I stretched out the heavens with my own hands, And I give orders to all their army.”
Humans are not fictional nore bible
K&T: You may come from Holy Bible circa 393 AD, though if I must come from a book, I prefer it to be Darwin's Origin of the Species, published 24 November 1859. Isaiah is only useful to me where God commands Isaiah to prophecy for 3 yrs NAKED (20
Also Nudely what you read and what it means is not in our simple English language. Words written in Hebrew and Greek are not the same meaning as in our own languages.
6 days does not mean 6 days in our Language. It is Hebrew and Greek Jargon.
If our Bible is mistranslated, where do you go for your Christian instruction? Have you learned Aramaic? What do the ancient texts really say?
Nudely I am happy to answer any question you ask.
But to answer would not fit the word characters in box provided I will personally write a Hub to you as where do our christain instructions come from.To Planks thank you for allowing for the question
Kingdom: "Physical" DEATH makes Eph 2:1 A LIE! Sin brought "Spiritual" DEATH as well as "physical!" Why do ALL "stand before judgment seat" if physical when we will be in spirit? The spirit will be judged for thgs done in physical&spiritual!
salvation is not about original sin the penalty for which is death. Its about DELIVERENCE FROM death which is decreed on ALL by adams transgression. the fact that babies die show they inherited the penalty -- DEATH otherwise how could they die?
Rich if Jesus was of Adams seeds he could not pay any human life out of death Adam could not save them or their offspring ,a perfect substitute was created by the Heavenly Father ! His son became the second Adam.1 Cor 15:35
He adopted us .
What were your sins at birth? I had none, not one and I was not conceived via the Holy Spirit.
You keep DEFYING SCRIPTURE!
WORD is GOD/GOD is HOLY SPIRIT/YOU DEFY! YOU BLASPHEME!
Rm 5:12 "...by one man (Adam) sin ENTERED THE WORLD, & DEATH by SIN; (LISTEN) & SO "DEATH" PASSED UPON "ALL" MEN, FOR THAT ALL HAVE SINNED!" What part don'
I already told you quoting romans out of context saying it says something it doesn't, will not make you right.
What are your sins in the womb? Just one real sin, not implication by out of context scripture.
We don't need a Savior based on you guys "interpretation!" All we have to do is be "morally" right & no sin since we're born sinless, right? Why did Christ bother to come & die?Why were we DEAD in our trespasses & sins(Eph 2:1)if no sin?
The difference being that we allowed temptation to be conceived and birth sin. Christ didn't. The unblemished lamb became a sin offering accepted by God for us. Disciples that follow Christ can do the same. Eph 2:1 is not referenced to babies.
NO! Adam "allowed temptation to be conceived and birth sin" which "passed to "ALL" men" (Rm 5:12)!
Eph 2:2-3 "children of disobedience" Who was "initially" disobedient? (v3) "fulfilling desires of flesh & mind; & were BY NATURE children of w
The Sin of Adam birthed death not sin. Paul's letter to the Ephesians was not sent to babies, read it like the adults the letter was sent to. Even a reading of KJV doesn't say or imply babies.
Even aborted babies are innocent. In Jeremiah 19:4 the human sacrifices of children to Baal are called the "blood of the innocent."
Grandmothers are wise. Mine was my spiritual teacher, too. When I first started to come out of Christianity; I was led to stick to Jesus 'red letter' words. There is much truth in there & so much healing. Jesus & God R both real - 'salvation'
Planks birth defects is from being imperfect.
It's a mark in the genes .
We all have some genetic flaws.
Some visible some not visible.
But it started from Adam. He flawed his offspring.
K&T That's NOT what Scripture says Disciples asked "Who sinned blind man or parents?" JESUS SAID "Neither, but the works of GOD should be made manifest in him" (Jn 9:2-3)!
However, DEATH via sin did come by Adam (Rm 5:12) & "ALL born sinners
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- (KJV)
does not say babies are born sinners.
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If one is BORN,
he is BORN a sinner or Bible LIED (Rm 5; Ps 51:5)!
Norine, you might want to re-evaluate your Augustine doctrine "proof" texts by doing a little more research on your presuppositions.
Interesting Scriptures Norine,read and understand; "the Old Testament contains no theory of the origin of sin" -
P&N would you please make a "link" for discussion! 250 characters not enough!
But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.” - Matthew 19:14
RIGHT! They are "born sinners" & they have to "come" also! ONLY JESUS KNOWS the "accountable age" of a child for HE "sees" the heart! One child maybe 5 & understand as another 12 before understanding!
Check David out in II Sam 12:21-23!
David was praying that God would heal the son that God said he was going to take, this scripture has nothing to do with original sin. The sin was David taking another mans wife, that didn't make the resulting child a sinner.
Why do u address me? Didn't your daddy tell me to get off "causing his brother to stumble?" The discussion is "born sinner?" II Sam 12:23 "Why should I cont to fast? can I bring him back? I SHALL GO TO HIM (in heaven) but he shall not return to me!"
2Sa 12:23 "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
This has nothing to do with the child being a born sinner.
It has to do w/a child is "forgiven" until he comes "into the knowledge" or have "understanding" of GOD!
You can't "twist" WORD SATAN!
There is no word twisting going on, however I do see a total lack of reading comprehension. When you can come out and play like adults should and leave your name calling at home where it belongs I'll consider talking further with you.
I have characteristics of JESUS! "Hypocrite - FOOL" (Matt 23) as HE was speaking to your brothers (Scribes & Pharisees)!
When u get off bottle & are able to take "meat," (I Cor 3:2;Jn16:12) then we can "comprehend" on the same level "HS leve
NW Once the living Christ will reveal himself to you, you would let Him to express himself in loving manner instead the ugliness of "I Norine Williams"...
Good words Michael.
Sorry, no more name calling Norine.
Yes babies have Adams flaw of genetic imperfections which comes in many forms some times birth defects. Yet the baby did not sin .Adam did this to us.
KT, I'm still having problems with the genetic connection thing. If you are comfortable with that fine as long as you realize an infant, deformed or not isn't born sinning.
MM: *I* "repeat" HIS WORD! "Ugliness?" Take it up w/HIM! U forgot Matt 23?
K&T: U forgot Jn 9:2-3 "Neither [blind] man nor parents sinned" but for the Glory of God?" Yes Adam!
Rich: Baby didn't sin-Adam caused us to be "sinful BY NATURE" (Eph2:
The spirit that directs your ugliness to posters doesn't come from God.
Correct babies don't sin they are not born a sinner. Finally
NW, you are "outsmarting" even yourself by talking too much... My concern would be WHAT does Jesus have out of all this. How about the sinners who might searching for the Kingdom & righteousness? For you Matt 25-"whatever you didi for one..Udidit
Babies are not kept accountable for their state, they will go to heaven if they die as a baby. But there came a day in each person's life when he is matured enough to take his own decisions. Then spiritual accountability starts!!
You and Norine have been well indoctrinated; but it is nonsense that was carved out in ignorance from a man-written book designed to enslave the human mind over 1000 years after it was collected. http://charlesdailey.net/churchhistoryrev2-11.pdf
How many say, "I was born this way." There is even a song about it. This is the anthem of those who make excuses for their carnal behaviours blaming God that this was how they were made rather than the choices they made.
Canavan-Van Bogaert-Bertrand is an example .please view pictures .
Some babies do not phyically show Adams heridity. But you can see those babies who obviously do. We are talking sin in heridity we all have it.
I'd don't buy the connection you are trying to make sorry. Sin is transgression of the law, what sin as a newborn did you commit? Christ was a flesh and blood infant what was his sin?
Christ was begotten by the Holy Spirit which I've given Scripture several times & John "leaped in mother's womb" or filled w/Holy Spirit AFTER conception! JESUS is ONLY "man" born sinless due to Holy Spirit conception! I pray u "leap" & u wi
Not being able to understand that God doesn't need to be vindicated leaves me with not much confidence in your cut and paste witnessing. I'd still like to know the infant sins you were born with.?
Again, u listen to "man's" translation stating "GOD needs to be vindicated" & believe if u want to! I listen to the Holy Spirit (aka GOD/WORD) & HE SAID; HE Fathered HIMSELF(Lk 1:35) & "manifested HIMSELF in the flesh"(I Tim 3:16)!
You have quoted over 100 scriptures in this question most all without understanding and out of context. Your dogmatic 1tim3:16 quoting is wrong. I know it speaks of Jesus being manifested not God.
From the Heavenly Father's info as written
Ps 51:5 Look! With error I was brought forth with birth pains, And in sin my mother conceived me.
This is so clear.
Sex between Husband and wife is no sin.
But that has nothing to do heredity .
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
This says nothing of Davids sin it is talking about the sin of his mother. (Clearly)
lol ! as Rich said your zipper don't work anymore and my ! MY what big teeth you have my deer !
And Rich My what big eyes you have ! lol
You saw the zipper !
Why must we be "born again" if sinless? All we have to do is live sin free & saved because born sinless? Why were we DEAD in sin (Eph 2:1)? We've done nothing wrong & sinless fm birth so why? We don't need Jesus; done no wrong after birth why
Sinless at birth, God doesn't make sinners, we decide to sin. We decide later after birth having been tempted to sin, not as infant.
each and every single comment is correct and right. Right ?
Who can understand God the creator then, when babies are born imperfect?! ? Exodus twenty, five.
What I am trying to get understood is this point.
Say your have to copy a photo on a copy machine. What ever is on the original will also copy on on other copies . Adam and Eve had no children before they did wrong.
The were main humans not copies.
We have been copied perfectly as God intends, with a choice to sin, if we were born a sinner there would be no choice. Adams/Eves choice resulted in death. Christ choice resulted in life. What is our choice. Life with blood for repentant bad choices.
Rich do you believe the scripture as written ?King David says !Ps 51:5 Look! I was born guilty of error, And my mother conceived me in sin.
Job says !Job 14:4 Who can produce someone clean out of someone unclean? There is not one.
Very clear !
Why we DO have choice 1) born sinner, 2) come into “understanding,” 3)Choose to leave sin by BELIEVING!
Our UNBELIEF results in "SPIRITUAL" DEATH (Heb 3:19)!
I BELIEVE (Gal 1:6-9)!!!
KT what religion do you get your original sin from? What scripture translation are you quoting? Spend some time reading at the below link.
Jesus got baptized to experience what man had to go through.
Planks the ink effect the paper because they connect to each other.
Adam connect to each and every human generically.
What effect him touched us the minute he ate.
Jesus was our rescue. So God is righteous in all things he provided a cure .
Thanks for the answer. Augustine doctrine is deplorable. If you believe you were born a sinner, then you must also believe that you’re not responsible for your sin; there is no escaping this conclusion.
I cringe when someone calls himself a Pauline Christian. To me it is an oxymoron. You either follow Christ or you follow Paul.
Gosh, there are the two current versions of Christianity - thank you, MizB. What IF Jesus original message was the SAME as Paul's and the 4 'saved' gospels out of HUNDREDS destroyed were manipulations? Check out my hub or search Christian + Kabbalah
We have a perfectly righteous God who never expects from anyone something which he is not able to do. Babies wiil only be kept responsible for their own decisions once they can MAKE them.
Paul: Why, if u live under THE NEW COVENANT (Jer 31:34;Heb8:12;10:17; Ps103:12)?
THANK GOD SOMEONE "KNOWS" SPIRIT IS OUR "COMMUNICATION LINE" TO GOD & NOT WHAT RELIGION HAS "TAUGHT" = "SPOOKY/CRAZY!"
As in the testimony given of a car accident, it's told in "each person's view" but same story! So is Scripture! Christ came, taught, died, ascended! Same story! It doesn't matter "when" written but "what" written! Inspiration fm GOD not timeline
I find it odd that God "inspires" his writers : 1.) with different details. 2.)decades after the events 3.) 100s of miles fr where they hapnd. [Mark written in Rome, etc.] 4.) with stories no one else can verify 5.) to be pro-Roman/anti-Jewish. Hmm..
The most astounding thing is that the Heavenly Father has always been.
He see a generation coming and going.
Like a Principal in a school .he sees classes come and go. He sees the overall view of his school. The student only the years he attends.
Nudely these Doctors might have Education but they are just as human as you and I and make mistakes.
They live and die . Which means they were born in sin.
You will believe an imperfect human , Over God who you say you believe in.
Yes, the Heavenly Father has always been, K&T - but, religions and their various holy books are man-made things meant to LIE to humans to put their souls in bondage in this world; and Christianity succeeded, nicely - and continues to divide &
Misfit I agree with you to a point their is alot of misleading going on.You say this faithfully.
But our Heavenly Father is stronger then satan who is misleading many.
Some people like to be in that position. It's to restrictive to do as Jesus ask