Many online atheists openly despise religion but have a warm soft spot for Bhuddism which is also a religion with temples, chants, prayers and reincarnation etc. Why is that?
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If these people went to a real temple and saw real prayers, real rituals, chanting, and bowing before a statue, they would not act like it's SO different from other religions.
Of course you are correct.
Atheists crave for some spiritual feelings and they try to change bhuddism into a pop cultural practice to rationalize their yearning for God.
it's your life. By definition Buddhism is a religion with numerous gods. Logic dictates that what you are describing is agnostic not atheist. We can't change the dictionary to suit an argument.
What you are describing is an Agnostic view.
Once an atheist admits to having spiritual beliefs in a religion like bhuddism or in supernatural phenomena they have come out as closet agnostics. Atheists don't "do religion" unless they "come out".
You make many very good and clearly thought out points in your response Titen-Sxull.
"It is very common in the West to assume that very ancient or very foreign beliefs have some sort of enhanced wisdom. " Yeah basically.
Many atheists are agnostics. The only supernatural belief you can't have if you're an atheist is a belief in god(s). Unfortunately not all atheists are skeptics or apply their skepticism properly, and thus we get atheists giving Buddhism a free pass.
for the purposes of rational debate it is wise to stick to dictionary meanings. What you are saying is contradictory. Think about: what force is organising all this complex higher Buddhist consciousness and reincarnation etc?
This is,without a doubt,the best answer I've read so far.I would Love to have your depth.All due respect...
Thank you cheaptrick. Much appreciated. :)
Every bhuddist altar has a pantheon of God's. We are all potentially "Bhuddas" or as they say we are sleeping bhuddas. Certain realized beings are said to return to earth as quasi God like beings to teach others. A God of enlightenment.
Sorry - it is not 'incorrect'. As I explained, belief in a God / gods is not absolute in Buddhism. Many do not believe at all. For those who do, the concept is entirely different to Christian concepts of a God, and not central to Buddhist teachings.
It may not require you to affirm Buddha as God, but in Buddhist scriptures it's clear that he is a being similar to YHWH, eternal and all-powerful. "Enlightenment" and "righteousness/holiness" are similar concepts. Not so different.
It is different in that there is no 'all powerful' god of the Christian kind in Buddhism. requiring worship, and no compulsion for Buddhists to believe in an interactive god.
All bhuddist altars in all bhuddist temples have statues of Bhuddist gods and goddesses. These personages are central and are bowed down to and supplicated. Even pop culture atheists use a fat jolly Buddha as their main bhuddist God.
Oztinato all I can suggest is that you look at websites compiled by Buddhists, including teachers and institutions. I can provide the links, but it's difficult in these short exchanges to fully explain Buddhist belief / disbelief in the god concept.
It's OK I've studied Buddhism and other religions for years. I don't see Western pop Buddhist ideas as accurately defining Buddhism. I still think it's a good thing for agnostics or atheists to join a religion.
Who do you say Kwan Yin is?
Oztinato, it's not a good idea for an atheist to join a religion :) You seem to be fixated on Kwan Yin who is just one 'deity' (enlightened being) very popular in one school of Buddhism (and Taoism) mainly in China. But not comparable to Buddha
I mention Kwan Yin to give you a lead into researching bhuddist gods. We both know there are numerous gods and goddesses in bhuddism. All temples have images of deities.
Oztinato, whatever point anyone makes, you just keep repeating the same two or three absolute convictions you have about Buddhism. Tell me, why did you delete my reply to another comment in which you insisted I was agnostic rather than atheist?
Try reading up on Kwan Yin one of the main Buddhist Goddesses.
I think you're confusing the existence of deities in a pantheon with 1), Western conceptions of deity and 2) mandatory worship.
I can assure you I'm not.
It is well known that Bhuddism has a range of dieties. Also their universal consciousness runs the universe. This is a more refined view of an ultimate God.
I mostly agree. However many atheists online have a stubborn stereotype of religion as right wing back woods fundamentalist Christian which is wrong.
Maybe bhuddism is like the "token" black friend a racist keeps for convenient arguments sake.
Astrology, ghosts, esp, reincarnation are firmly and forever religious phenomena. Atheists need to stop stereotyping religion as right wing fundamentalist or just plain "come out" of the closet as plain agnostics.
Lol astrology, ghosts etc? The question is more what do they take from Buddhsim and which buddhism. Most often just words from buddha, meditation, zen. Rarely the mystical, otherworldy denominations...
It's all about the mystical. There's a lot of astrology in it. See Tibetan bhuddism etc.
Buddhism is full of deities. Read up on Kwan Yin for example.
These many gods and goddesses reside in a Heavenly realm never quite reaching complete merging like a math asymptote constantly approaching zero but never reaching it.
Bhuddism has dozens of God's. If you try to Google "bhuddist deities" you will easily be enlightened about that.
Well, now we get into a definition of God versus gods (or deities). As I understand it, deities in Buddhism are human beings with greater spiritual powers than normal humans. They are not the God of Judaism, Islam and Christianity.
Yes, Buddhist 'worship' (if anything) enlightened teachers who were/are just like us. This is probably the biggest difference. As I was saying in my answer, ALL of those 'holy men' were human & taught the same message: followers deified them late
Please read about Kwan Yin and the other Buddhist God's who are spiritual beings.
There is only one God who is the God of both Christianity and Buddhism and all religions practicing compassion and tolerance to other races and religions.
Please Google Kwan Yin who is the main goddess of an entire pantheon of bhuddist gods. Gods, temples, monks, prayers, reincarnation, rosary beads, etc. It's a religion bro with Gods.
I disagree . . .
Wow, kind of like a Wiki understanding. Oz I expect more from you. My wife went every day after school where the Buddhist caretakers of the monastery helped her with homework and spiritual stuff -- She had no notion of a God.
Every encyclopedia and book of any authority ever written by a historian or religious leader classes bhuddism as a religion. Maybe your bhuddist friend was trying to please your friend to get them involved.
Reincarnation is a central precept of bhuddism. Their temples have altars with their main gods as statues etc. It's a religion with numerous gods and goddesses.
One of the Buddhist gods is called Jesus. He is the god of all Christian Buddhists. I don't think Christian Buddhists consider Buddha to be a god and they likely don't worship other gods. You bring your religion with you into Buddhism .
All historians, encyclopedias, studies etc agree that bhuddism is a religion. To deny that is ignorance. Atheists who like bhuddism are closet agnostics but they are welcome to join a religion too.
Yes of course it's a religion. This is a truism. I appreciate you saying that religion is a part of history and society as it's rare to hear an atheist say that. All culture is linked to religion.
I agree. Science also Co opts many ancient practices. Eg so called entanglement in physics was practiced by Neanderthal and early humans as "Sympathetic magic".
Inoculation was used by ancient cultures etc
I looked up Carlin again. Unlike Will Rogers Carlin was strictly a pay to see comedian. His jokes were to make money.
Eric!You had to Look Up George Carlin???You must live in a Box!!! "His jokes were to make money" doesn't make them any less true brother.
Alright I did not have to look up one of my fav guys ever. Just your malstated quote. Which is AWEsome. Man does cook up some crazy stuff. But if man was not the cook, who would be.
Please Google Kwan Yin and the pantheon of bhuddist gods and goddesses.
Of course. Kwan Yin is the main goddess.
Bhuddists say we are all "sleeping bhuddas" which acknowledges the God like nature of everyone's soul.
I may be wrong here (as I often am) but...Isn't the definition of the word Buddha "awakened";that would make"sleeping Buddhas"translate to 'sleeping awakened' ones?I suppose that makes sense but...it seems kinda not right?
Bhuddists believe that most never quite make it to full enlightenment and remain godlike in heavenly realms or they might return in human form to teach others. It's a religion.
People are welcome to enjoy it.
I guess there is a sort of irreligious way to follow the ethical and philosophical teachings of many religious figures like Buddha and Jesus, but that's not the same thing as actually practicing a religion.
Only to those in denial.
I welcome them anyway to secretly practice their special religion as everyone needs such spiritual nourishment.
Every encyclopedia ever written lists bhuddism as a religion.
Is it important to be right or right to be important?
So the aim of this question is to get a discussion going or just to prove you are right? I may have misunderstood where you are coming from?
I really have a hard time believing that Oz has read a Chinese or Arabic or Hindi dictionary or encyclopedia. Of course those would only account for about 8 tenths of the world as we know it. Does anyone even know what a WAPP is anymore.
Dude!That is a Bold Statement! 'EVERY'?!?
Minus one point of credibility from the 'big "O" for that one'...
This is not a forum so we can't be overly detailed. Western atheist authored encyclopedias was implied. See you at the forum for long winded detail?