(mc) built an un authorized business inside the temple (pastor) made an office of a non existingposition (mc) sold animals for sacrifice that were not perfect (bringing sin into temple) (pastor) sells books,tapes,videos with false doctrines "freely you received freely give" (bringing sin into church (mc) took money from temple that was not authorized (pastor) takes money not authorized from church ( salary, special benefits, tithes) ( takes advantage of church sales tax free , ilegal- more sin in the church) and much more error in the church of men. what do you think?
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ann- agreed, flip over some "churches" and cast out some "pastors" as both are not found in the new testament. done away with by Christ, but better be ready to go to jail as Paul did when he upset the hierarchy. they appeal to the cops not to God
p&n-- amen brother
Planksandnails, it's a good analysis, I think. I'm wondering what the alternative is to the megachurch. The same issues can be found in many smaller churches. Is the house church the answer, with no paid clergy, using money only for missions?
The only way for an alcoholic to clean himself up is not to change one type of booze for another, but to walk away from it completely. Alcoholics are found in any type of bar, big or small, but those who don't drink are found elsewhere.
What an interesting concept to compare "religious church goers" to addicts. An included symptom of the manic side of Bi-Polar is extreme "religiosity". Not extreme spirituality. Is there a genetic predisposition here? All nurture or some nature?
The Starbucks and credit card ideas I agree with you on. As far as daycares, could these be legitimate if they weren't for profit, but to provide a real service for the poor so they could work? But I can see how it could be abused too.
And spoke in such love I appreciate from my friend of years. But by golly jingles are there no leaders?
Eric, Thanks for seeing the spirit in which I said this. Are there no leaders? I believe there are and will be. It will require a departure from how things are currently and have historically been done, a cataclysmic restructuring of the Church.
Chris refer to Lk 10:7 which you refer to. the "wages" were food and shelter only that which God promised us, not a paycheck and all the xtras
Charlie, yes, the context defines wages here as food/shelter. The word is used broadly as compensation including money. Here is another misstep which opened the door for corruption. The step to money was inevitable. Better to say "no pay" of any kind
Chris- I agree
That may be a first. haha. Thanks, Charlie.
I have the idea that compensation does not disqualify a preacher. I have been researching, personally, that notion. I am sorry to report that I find no exception. Many attendances at many congregations of all walks. They are compromised by need.
eric-of you research ways men which of course support their way of doing things. We are talking about what SCRIPTURE SAYS, which they reject and devise their own ways as they do in everything. there is no scripture to support modern church ways
Eric, I would buy Joel Osteen's book from Walmart. But hopefully he's not just selling at his church, know what the Bible says about it. Christ isn't just referring that Bible verse to the sellers but to the buyers also. (Matthew 21:12)
ann- he is under investigation for tax evasion etc because of the way he uses the "church" as his cash cow. Why would you buy or read anythnig from that apostate deceiver of the brethren??
How easy to accuse, how hard to approach a man and set forth standards.
Eric, The children under the Norfolk pine and the preacher man are a good pattern. If there is a need, then there will be those who step up in spite of the lack of financial gain. Only when wealth is not an issue will the church find its place.
I am just having trouble with this. Don't get me wrong here, but I really do want a pro and not an amateur as designated team captain. I know about Paul working and toiling so as not to be a burden on the church. But for 3 years Jesus had no job?
Per the biblical record, Jesus stayed at homes of supporters. When he needed money for taxes, it was donated by a fish..sorry, don't mean to be sarcastic, but it's in the gospels. When he needed food, he created it by miracle, i.e. bread and fish.
Chris why are the day to day expenses not talked about. Did I read something poorly about Judas being the keeper of the "purse" of the group? God provided him with needed things, doesn't a congregation do the same it is just that God works different
It's a good point, Eric, and really cuts to the chase. John 12:6, Judas, keeper of the bag, helped himself to what was in it. Corruption started even among the disciples. It shows that Jesus did have income but doesn't state the source. Donations?
And we are so well reminded that Jesus the chief of all priests did not wear the robes of a rich man but allowed himself to be cleansed by the most expensive of oils. -- for himself. And we must wonder of the donkey rode instead of walking.
Hi Chris, Christ was a Carpenter, I don't think He had to pay for much of anything. Especially if He did Services, He healed the sick, cast out demons, taught the Word, raised people from the dead. And did I mention He was a crafty Carpenter?
HI Ann, I see you've chosen Mark 6:3, "Carpenter," over its parallel passage Matthew 13:55, "Carpenter's son." Also, you seem to know a lot about Jesus' activities as a carpenter when these are the only two references to that in the New Testament.
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Jesus Christ never received pay during HIS ministry form spreading the gospel of the Kingdom of God. Jesus set the STANDARD for the ENTIRE ministry. It is HIS example of a ministry we should follow. NOTHING more and NOTHING less.