Is Faith in Rationality/Logic Just as Illogical as Faith in Religion?
Most believers do also. Whether they are prepared to admit it or not. Under normal day to day circumstances, they make decisions based on rational criteria.
Then throw that all out of the window when it comes to god.
If everyone made all their decisions based on faith alone, we would have a pretty short life span. At least - shorter than we currently manage. In fact - we might be extinct alredy.
Amen!
not sure how logic can be illogical. anyway, too many religious doctrines just don't make sense, whereas logic and rationale do make sense, and can be proven in some way through mathematics or physics or quantum mechanics etc.
i use Occam's Razor a lot, as do a few other hubbers i have seen.Skipping over inevitable references to Remington and Gillette
, how do you 'know' they make sense. Isn't the experience of recognizing that something 'makes sense' simply an emotion, or a sort of 'flash of realization' or something (not sure what to call it)? In other words, something runs through your whole body saying 'that is right.' - sound like religious ecstacy to me 
the process of elimination. for example, the Bible talks about a white man and a white woman siring the entire human race.
creationists talk about the grand canyon being formed in weeks after the great flood.
the bible talks about burning bushes, people being turned into salt, and rivers turning into blood.
science has proven these things are impossible. eliminate the nonsensical and trust the practical. see?But isn't it true that when you look over your argument, you have this 'feeling' that 'yes, that feels right'? It 'appeals' to your 'sense of logic.' So, it appeals to one of your 'senses.' So you, like me, are a monkey with a nervous system that gives you the shudders, or the 'pleasures' when something we see *seems* to "make sense". (Very angry emoticon for which I have no picture, but it looks really, very furious
)No the angry emoticon was irony. Geez, you Americans, when will you ever learn British irony (more irony
). Let me send you some Monty Python Youtube videos to train you up. Oh dear, oh dear 
And I do have a beard, so references to razors always freak me out 
who?
i kind of like that "train you up" thing
Mmm, but strictly speaking I am just some ape that found himself wandering about a big rock hurtling through space (not going to burst into song, a la Eric Idle, but I could if you wanted me to
). So, I have a suspicion that I simply have a 'taste' (like my taste for bananas and swinging around in trees ) for logic and rationality...
I can pretend that I have come to this 'taste' because of all my experiences where logic and rationality have worked out for me in the past, but I'd be pretending, because it's not really true. (I hope all these monkey references are not going to bring out the anti-evolutionists... that was NOT my intention
)All that monkey stuff !!!!
I'm lost.
what are you trying to say, Mr. Monkey ?Let's put it another way (a less simian, Charlton Heston sort of way... )
.
I grew up (like you(?)), in secular British post-war (waaay post...) society, where something like 6 percent of people attend church.
In other words, I inherited culturally my secular, rationalist, more-or-less materialist outlook, from my background and upbringing. I didn't come about it rationally. I didn't deduce it. I took and still take the 'leap of faith' that what I was brought up with is true. So, that makes me a sort of hypocrite, says meI'm not British I come from Catholic Argentina, and I rationalized my Atheism, because I find fault in Christian God / Jesus Christ.
Becoming an Atheist at the early age of 13 was a family drama ! I remember well !
The question is irrational. Logical processes locate reality and test it. Religion assumes there is an invisible entity without any evidence to support it, then simply believe it.
Our basic beliefs and actions are grounded in the assumed reliability of experience, not rationality. When we experience seeing a car moving towards us, we don't rationalise.
What's the probability this car is real? How likely is it that I'm dreaming? Am I in the Matrix
We just get out the way. We assume our experience is reliable unless we've got good reason not to. That's what stops us getting run over by cars. That's what stopped us getting eaten by lions.
All our most basic beliefs are essentially assumptions. If they were based only on reason and logic we'd get very dead, very quickly. That's pretty much the opposite of what you just said.No. You are wrong. That is not what I said at all. I never said all our "beliefs" are based solely on reason and logic. Of course there is experience and learning involved.
I said we do not make our decisions based on faith alone and if we did, we would probably not live very long.
This goes out the window when it comes to believing in a god.Thank you. I do think some things are safer to assume than others.
All very logical, but you are missing the elephant in the room. What is written in these tomes.
Any biblical interpretation takes me to the same fact. it is psychotic in content, the god therein is described as a psychopathic murdering maniac who demands worship.
I have experienced the bullet-proof religionists ferver in my own life and understand the megalomania associated with it simply by reading it and the posts of religionists.
I have also discovered through psychology that same light is not believed by the subconscious mind which rails against such obviously unsound processes causing religionists to post this crud trying to prop up their own incredulity.
The belief system itself is more than nonsense it is vile.I do not disagree with the fundamental truth of what you say, but I am not in agreement with your conclusions.
Making people "other' is a part of the belief of religions, that is why there are hundreds of them. not because they are reading from a different script, the script itself is not understood by all of them to be the same in meaning. Meaning is bent to suit the particular neurosis that is being promoted by that group. There is no evidence of a tooth fairy, it is a fabrication. there is even less likelihood of an omni-everything invisible sky fairy who kills people who do not worship it. No, I believe this sort of insanity is the cause of "other than self" thinking.
Like you, I would treat fellow humans identically and love them as myself. no chance of the same coming from someone who has already condemned oneself and loved ones to "forever torture" simply because we do not believe the unbelievable!Don,
This would make a great hub Holly
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