Are Mormons really Christians?

1. 61

   Hokeyposted 14 years ago

   If Mormons are Christians than why the discrepancies between tThe Book OF Mormon and The Bible?
   
   Ex-  The Bible says believers were first called Christians after Paul's ministry in Antioch.
   
   Acts 11:26 "And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
   
   However, the Book of Mormon claims people were known by this title as early as 73 B.C.
   
   Alma 46:15 "...yea, all those who were true believes in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come."

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      Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It should be remembered that the Book of Mormon is a translation of an ancient Nephite text. The English word "Christian" is not the word that was originally on the Nephite record, but is the English word that Joseph Smith used when translating the original Nephite word. The word "Christian" simply means "Christ-believer" in common use and in the Book of Mormon. We don't know what the original Nephite word was for "Christian", but it signified something like "Christ-believer." The word "Christ" is a Greek word that means the same thing as the Hebrew word "Messiah." The concept of a future Messiah was taught in ancient Israel, and anyone who believed those prophecies would have been a "Messiah-believer". Therefore, all pre-Christian era Israelites who believed in the coming Messiah/Christ were Christians in this sense. This is the sense we find in the Book of Mormon.

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         Timothy Donnellyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         This is an excellent explanation, thank you for that. Quite simple and concise, really.
         All the rest of the arguments are presently not worth my time (I'm on a borrowed computer, as mine is On The Fritz).
         Let me make a bit of a stretch ... Since we, as members of the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Later-day Saints try to follow the teachings of Christ as we understand them, and the Catholics and Protestants try to follow the teachings of Christ as they understand them, it is satisfactory to refer to all of us as "Christians". Now, I would  like to to suggest (and I reverently hope that I am not mocking God's Word) that the people who try to follow the "GOLDEN RULE" are ALSO trying to follow the teachings of Christ, whether they believe it or not, OR admit to it or not; (they may actually credit the origin this wise adage to someone other than Christ, while unthoughtfully, ungratefully, - or pridefully - expousing the virtues of this idea to the source they profess to follow in this regard - perhaps even including themselves). I humbly suggest to them that every GOOD inspiration and compulsion COMES from (the Preeminent Grace of) God, whether this compulsion has been credited of late, or in a different culture, or from wherever/whenever ... I submit that this GOOD has ORIGINATED from the God of Earthly Humanity, who is known as Jesus Christ or JAHWEH, they are the same. Note here too that God has always given the metaphysical credit to His Father, the Most High God.
         So, to reiterate, because this GOLDEN RULE is GOOD (but perhaps not COMPLETE, as it leaves out the Divine admonition to Love GOD THE FATHER with all our might, mind, heart, and strength), it has been brought to us by Christ, and therefore, in the appropriate measure, ALL the above are followers of Christ.
         As a follow-up, we may recall that "taking upon oneself the Name of Christ" requires the sacred inauguration of the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. This inauguration, by rights, has got to be performed (even vicariously) by those in proper authority who have been directly commissioned of Christ to perform this function. Note also that this invitation is available to ALL who choose to do so, even as Christ Himself has done so.

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            goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Thoroughly agree!  Howdy!

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   2. 61

      eoveryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The Christians in talked about in The Book of Mormon, Or christ followers were people in the western hemisphere, so this is the difference.  If you would have read The Book of Mormon, instead of finding someone's quote and quoting it, you would not have written the misleading statement.  Please get the correct facts.

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         Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         The facts are correct. Your answer makes no sense.

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2. 62

   theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

   Is a banana really an apple

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      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Are you saying they're all fruity?

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      Disturbiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ah, but bananas and apples are both fruits.

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3. 80

   Sa Toyaposted 14 years ago

   Who knows Hokey...to be honest I've never really given it much thought since you posted this....
   
   
   Other than that much love to you and Irish

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   1. 61

      Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Love you too. In the other thread What do you know about Mormons there is an inner debate about Mormons being Christians. The Mormons say yes. The Christians say no. That is why I brought up the contradictions in the two books.

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4. 61

   Hokeyposted 14 years ago

   So which book is right?
   
   
   
   During Jesus' ministry He spoke of His church as something in the future.
   
   Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
   
   After Christ's resurrection and the day of Pentecost we read "And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." (Acts 2:47)
   
   However, the Book of Mormon claims the Christian church was established as early as 147 B.C.
   
   Mosiah 18:17 "And they were called the church of God, or the church of Christ, from that time forward."

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      Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The word "Christ" is the Greek word for the Hebrew word "Messiah". It is no more anachronistic for pre-Christian era Book of Mormon peoples to believe in a coming Messiah/Christ than it was for Old Testament prophets to believe in a coming Messiah/Christ.

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   StormRyderposted 14 years ago

   Which book is right?? Mormon, Christian???
   
   Can't say I am really familiar with either..So I'll stick with my book:

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      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Lmao.
      
      It's probably the most honest, anyway, so good choice!

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      moonphlowerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      LMFAO!!!! 

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6. 61

   Hokeyposted 14 years ago

   # The Bible says believers were first called Christians after Paul's ministry in Antioch.
   
   Acts 11:26 "And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
   
   However, the Book of Mormon claims people were known by this title as early as 73 B.C.
   
   Alma 46:15 "...yea, all those who were true believes in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come."

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7. 37

   liswilliamsposted 14 years ago

   describe a christian

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8. 60

   Disturbiaposted 14 years ago

   I'm a shopaholic myself. Can shopaholics really be Christian?

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   1. 61

      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yes. But not mormon. There that proves that mormons aren't christians.
      
      Geez, it always takes a woman's point of view to figure these things out. 

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         earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         

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      IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Very good point.

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9. 0

   Onusonusposted 14 years ago

   Why be so selective towards the Book of Mormon? There are plenty of socalled discrepencies among the various books of the Bible.
   The answer to the question, "are Mormons Christians" should be based on the evidence of what we do and who we worship.
   
   So we worship Jesus, and we adhear to his prescribed commands in our daily lives.
   
   Why does it have to be such a big debate?
   We are Christian to the core!!!!!

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10. 55

    eleymarposted 14 years ago

    Yes. Trust in God and ask for everything because thats what God wants to give you. its in the bible

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11. 63

    Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago

    The argument about "Christians" in preChristian times is rather circular, but as pointed out, the Old Testament does apparently foretell the coming of a Messiah.
    
    The greater question about the Book of Mormon is whether or not Joseph Smith actually was "inspired" by a book that preceded the Book of Mormon by about six years called "A View of the Hebrews." It was basically a novel, and while there is no true evidence to show that Joseph Smith actually read the novel, there isn't any to say he *didn't* read it, either. Apparently, there are a lot of similarities between the "Hebrews" and The Book of Mormon. More info about it can be found here: 
    
    http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/voh/voh.shtml
    
    Additionally, Joseph Smith may also have been "inspired" by the Masonic Temple rite to produce the version Mormonism uses in their temples today. The rite in Mormon temples has been modified several times over the past decades, just as The Book of Mormon has.
    
    However, the basic doctrine of Mormonism is to believe in the Messiah of the Old and New Testaments, that he did, in fact, atone for mortal sin, just as common Christianity believes. To refute that they believe otherwise is really silly.
    
    But as I say, the larger questions lie in whether or not Joseph Smith's contributions were truly original, or whether they were based on previous works.

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       Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Darn you ruined my hub. Yeah I think it's pretty clear he made the whole thing up, borrowing his ideas from the View of the Hebrews and maybe a couple of other sources. I think it's likely Crowder, his school teacher buddy and scribe, was in collusion on it.
       
       You have to admit, he was a very clever businessman to pull it all off.

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          Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I don't think I ruined your hub. I'm just not in the mood to write such stuff, and if you are, I'd like to read it.
          

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    All of the current tomes came from earlier stories anyway.

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       Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I think that's more accurate than most people want to admit.
       
       It's like how extremely similar the stories of the immaculate conception of Christ, the atonement and ressurection are so parallel to mythological and traditional legends. The Tree of Life appears in the Bible, the Book of Mormon and in countless other ancient and modern cultures. But each culture or religion claim each item as their own and build their own "doctrines" around it.

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          earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Precisely! Some of the Jesus stories reach back almost to the sun-god.

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          Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          So this is where the "teeth gnashing" sounds were coming from! Did I miss the heathen dance around the crosses again?  I'm not too late for the snake handling, am I?

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             Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             You reprobates always like that teeth grinding and exotic dancing with snakes.
             Oh, wait....so do I....
             

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13. 0

    Will Bensonposted 14 years ago

    Ques - What's with all the Morman bashing lately?
    
    I don't know any Mormans but I've read Goldenpath's answers in another thread. I haven't read any answers from him that weren't patient and courteous, although he's received some rough treatment.
    
    Isn't LDS just a belief -- we all have our own beliefs? What's the crime here?
    
    Threads like this are NOT the path to enlightenment. Maybe a little respect for others is.
    
    My thoughts.

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       Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Eh, I'd say consideration is due to all. Respect however is earned.
       
       And I'd also say that pretending lies are truth is not the path to enlightenment.

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14. 73

    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    We have great Television in Australia. About 10 years ago I watched one of those snake handling churches like Sara Pailin's
    in a well made documentary.
    They spoke in tongues many times, (it was filmed over some months) that was side splitting, and the snake handling also.
    They interviewed many of the participants, one old man had been bitten many times over the years!
    
    I think that even being associated with a belief system that includes this stuff is laughable!

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15. 0

    Will Bensonposted 14 years ago

    Pandoras Box wrote:
    Eh, I'd say consideration is due to all. Respect however is earned.
    And I'd also say that pretending lies are truth is not the path to enlightenment.
    
    Will wrote:
    My question was why are Mormons singled out more than any other religion? All religions have beliefs that seem off-the-wall to non-believers. What's different about them?
    
    Respectfully.

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    1. 63

       Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I don't know that Mormons are particularly bashed than other conservative religions. There's been a lot of muslim bashing, I have observed. A lot of conservative fundamentalist Christian bashing as well.
       
       I have lots of loved ones who are Mormons and other conservative Christian religions. They are all very lovable people. The discussion turns to bashing by several, true enough, but there are those of us who know and understand the people and their religion(s) and are not afraid to dig through the one-sidedness to try to get to some truth.
       
       Truth is what the claim is to begin with. That may or may not be, according to real evidence. Evidence is not bashing, it just leads to truth.

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          earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I agree with this. Any religion that seeks to impose it's beliefs on others will cop a fairly equal amount of flack.

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       Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       The bashing is not all one-sided and you would know this if you have read the threads.  I have no problem with Mormons as long as they do not expect me to believe things which are patently untrue.
       
       To call me names and curse me because I ask for proof of their claims about the beginnings of the cult, is not only insulting but a form of cop-out on the so-called High Priest's part.
       
       To be told I am not worthy to understand by the likes of him is one of the worst insults ever given to me.

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          earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          True, that is insulting. I have not seen one fundie in my whole life so far who can see their own stuff. Just doesn't happen. Like they have shutters on. Totally amazing to watch!
          
          I have tried to describe some of their questions as the "are you still beating your wife? type of question, then when answered their built in superiority and use of insults goes straight over their heads.
          Why is that?

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16. 0

    Onusonusposted 14 years ago

    "Elder James E. Talmage, a man who is remembered for his doctrinal teachings, showed great kindness to a neighbor family in distress. They were complete strangers to him. Before he was an Apostle, as a young father, he became aware of great suffering at a neighbor’s home whose large family was stricken with the dreaded diphtheria. He did not care that they were not members of the Church; his kindness and charity moved him to act. The Relief Society was desperately trying to find people to help, but no one would because of the contagious nature of the disease.
    When he arrived, James found one toddler already dead and two others who were in agony from the disease. He immediately went to work, cleaning the untidy house, preparing the young body for burial, cleaning and providing for the other sick children, spending the entire day doing so. He came back the next morning to find that one more of the children had died during the night. A third child was still suffering terribly. He wrote in his journal: "She clung to my neck, ofttimes coughing [germs] on my face and clothing, . . . yet I could not put her from me. During the half hour immediately preceding her death, I walked the floor with the little creature in my arms. She died in agony at 10 a.m.” The three children had all departed within the space of 24 hours. He then assisted the family with the burial arrangements and spoke at their graveside services. 3 This he did all for a family of strangers. What a great example of Christlike kindness!"
    
    
    Is there any doubt that this man was a Christian?

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       Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Not in the only sense which Jesus probably ever would have wanted.
       
       Onu, you must know I'm not out to get mormons. You were there when mr.-save-the-christian-name-from-mormons came along. Did I not treat his idiocy the same way I treat your's? Er, ahem, I mean in the same way I treat the idiocies of mormons?
       
       The mormons are or are not christians isn't my fight, really, to me their both pretty much the same. I can of course see the christian point that there are some differences they feel are significant, but frankly I really don't care.
       
       If you weren't a religionist I'd say you have a point here, but you are a religionist and as such you know the mindset is that the doctrines must be adhered to and protected, at least until such time that certain doctrines become a hindrance to the church, or a threat to the survival thereof, which has occurred a couple of times at least for the LDS. Then you guys just create a new prophecy, whatever, but the christians don't really do that on a doctrinal basis. They only create new interpretations of old doctrines.
       
       So posting an example -a touching example even- of an act of kindness on the part of a mormon doesn't really change the fact that mormons and christians have some relevant differences in their doctrinal beliefs. By the way, a hindu, muslim, buddhist, or atheist might have done the same in the scenario you post.
       
       Well, I'm turning in. Take care and good night.

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          Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes I agree, you are equally zelous against most Christian denominations from what I've seen.
               I would never claim that the people in my religion are perfect. There are certainly wonderful people all over the world, and every religion, creed, race, nation, has it's bad seeds as well.
          I heartily disagree with the Changing Doctrines stuff, and to preserve both of our Egoes I'll cop out with the old "let your communications be Yea Yea or Nay nay" motif.
          
          I am most interested in the action of being a Christian rather than doctrinal differences, and I think that my church does very well in this regard, so I'm going to continue with being a Mormon no matter how silly it sounds.
          
          Isaiah said "Surely the turning of things upside down will be esteemed as the potters clay"
          I see it as being like a South Park episode,
          "What It was the Mormons all along!? Awh crap!"

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             Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             LOL at the South Park episode.
             
             It is a fact that the mormons have changed their divine revelations a couple of times. That whole racism issue is a perfect example of how religion can affect the way its adherants view the world and other peoples.
             
             I understand the desire to do the right thing, but I think that stubbornly activating that desire under the umbrella of a false belief system only perpetuates the problems.

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                Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                You can say that Mormons changed their beliefs but it is not a completely unbiblical idea. There are plenty of examples of racism in the bible, Isac forbade his sons from marrying a Cainanite, Sampson didn't like Philisteens, Jews hated Samaritans, the Priesthood was only given to levites.
                Jesus and his apostles made big big changes when everything went from the law of Moses to the laws of Christ.
                So many of the biblical prophets and apostles were the same way, and it kills me when people say; Oh no! Not Joseph and Brigham! they're over the line!
                For doing the exact same thing.
                
                Further The desire to do the right thing as a consecrated offering to the Lord actually enhances my willingness to do more good in the world which I believe is a thing to be desired.
                
                But thats just the way I feel take it or leave it, I now here by extend to you the ability to do or think whatever you want. Just don't kill anybody.

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                   Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Sure christianity is equally wacko. I agree.

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17. 49

    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Hi friends
    
    The Mormons say that they are the only true Christians; Catholics and Protestants are only heretics.
    
    Thanks
    
    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Once again, you lie about being peaceful.

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    goldenpathposted 14 years ago

    From the words of a great individual(I think it was Jabba the Hut), this is "bantha fodder."  Crap, for short.  You love to stir the pot.  Mormons are Christians, for we proclaim it.  To be Christian is something only the self can proclaim as it is a relationship between the self and Jesus Christ.  To say who is and is not Christian is only the ramblings of self imposed pride in judgment of others. 
    
    Hey, paar, it's not peaceful slandering other faiths.  Take note and study of this and past threads on religion.  They are fruitless and are only the playgrounds for those who take religion and the faith of others lightly.
    
    

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19. 74

    Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago

    Are Mormons really Christians?
    
    
    Are Modern day Christians, really Christian?

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20. 75

    skyfireposted 14 years ago

    Yes. They always talk about goody-goody stuff to portray their image as un-harmful....They can be sarcastic when their beliefs are challenged or when they want to hide their ignorance..
    They can be offensive when they can't prove their point..
    They pretend to be a good person and yet they think about non-believers and hell.. They don't even help themselves to argue from science perspective leave logical reasoning aside.. These symptoms are similar to medieval Christians so yes Mormons are Christians...If any mormon don't want to get into this generalization then feel free to *think*...that is enough..

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    exorterposted 14 years ago

    are we to judge whether they are or not

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22. 49

    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Hi friends
    
    In reality niether the Mormons are Christians nor those who call themselves Christians are trutly Christians; because they do not blieve what Jesus believed or did. Christianity started with Paul and his wrong concept; it did not start with Jesus.
    
    Since both the groups call themselves Christians; and it is their article of faith; so they should be called Christians irrespective of the fact that they have nothing to do with Jesus' teachings and his acts.
    
    Paul and Joseph Smith the Junior are both False Prophets Messengers; hence their fate as per Torah and Quran; they both were killed.
    
    I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
    
    Thanks
    
    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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       sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Hmmmmm.........I wonder who this is? Hmmmmmmmm........it sounds like an anglo-arab, you know, a pajama people!

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       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       The Quran is a book that teaches violence and killing, not peace.

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       cgavicposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       sadly, Mormons are not born again Christians.  They are a cult.
       
       Mormons believe God is one of many gods.
       that jesus and satan are brothers.
       they pray for the dead.
       they have a separate book they must  read inconjunction/book of mormon
       
       all of the above points are not scriptural.
       jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life, he that goes to  the father must go through jesus." Jesus is the risen messiah.

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          Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Same old anti-Mormon garbage, different face. Have you ever even read the Book Of Mormon?

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    Sab Ohposted 14 years ago

    ...........................

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    Onusonusposted 14 years ago

    Mohommad was an AntiChrist hence he was a false prophet. All true prophets declared, and foretold the mission of the Messiah. That same mission was fufilled by Jesus Christ, who took upon himself the sins of the world as a vicarious sacrifice.

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       paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/40719

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25. 67

    goldenpathposted 14 years ago

    Hi, kids!  Just thought I'd drop in and see how this thread is panning out compared to the others.  Heck, we had over a thousand entries on the other Mormon thread.  Come, on!  Let's hear some real meaty fodder of the Mormons.  Since so many not of our faith seem to hold great first-hand knowledge of us I am surprised the frenzy hasn't taken hold yet on this thread.  Come now.  I know you are out there. 
    
    How's it going Onusonus and Sneako?  It's spring and time for a diet.

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       sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I need more than a diet I need a plug! Hey Bro hows it going?

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          goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Not too bad, rough day at the "office."  Today was Ward Conference so we, in the Bishopric, were quite busy with the Council Bluffs Stake reps.

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             sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             What position do you hold? I just recieved a new calling I'm the Sunday School secound counselor, I was the secretary.

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                goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                First Counselor to the Bishop.  I was asked today from the Stake to serve as the Stake Public Information Officer for the area.  Oh, joys!  They must have caught wind of all my efforts over the past year in working with other faiths and communities.  Actually, I just finished a hub a couple days ago outlining my thoughts on the Good Friday services we were invited to by the Catholics.  Check it out if you like.  It's on Reconciliation.  It makes a good bed time story.  Guaranteed to put you out - or your money back!
                
                I just got done saying something nice about you on a different thread.

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                   sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Thanks! You are exactly what any stake would want to hold those keys!

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                      goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Now you are just being mean!   In fact, every time a conference is approaching we pray and wish for the "phone call" from the Stake to meet with us for notification of release.  After five-and-a-half years we are still being tortured.  Actually, I do love the work.  Especially when called to officiate over funerals and also interviews.  However, dealing with some of the older women is monstrous as it is in or outside the faith.  They just seem to have their own little mindsets that act like fingernails on a chalkboard.
                      
                      Oh well, persevere and endure to the end!

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                         Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         My ward had four funerals last month.

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26. 58

    exorterposted 14 years ago

    The word of God tells me I AM NOT TO JUDGE, I can give it thought, but if I get my tounge involved, then AM I JUDGEING

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27. 49

    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Hi friends
    
    If the Mormons say they are Christians; then there is no harm in accepting them as Christians. One can always prove their tenets to be wrong.
    
    I accept Mormons as Mormon Christians; but Joseph Smith Junior was not a Truthful Prophet/Messenger of God Allah YHWH; he was a false one like Paul; got killed as per Torah.
    
    Thanks
    
    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You can no more prove their tenets wrong than you can prove your Islamic tenets are right.
       
       
       
       Yet, Muhammad was a despot dictator who created a cult through warfare. You are following a mass murderer, just like Hitler and Stalin.

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