Who or What Do You Need To Forgive?

1. 72

   LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years ago

   We know that we will be better off if we forgive all of those things and and all of those people that have caused us pain....
   
   In this thread, ask for or give forgiveness. You don't have to give specific in details if you don't want to.
   
   I ask that Christians who have hurt people be forgiven.

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      RFoxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That's a nice sentiment.
      
      I've spent the last year in forgiveness and letting go mode...so I think I'm good now but I agree it is an important step.
      
      To forgive is not to condone or to forget but to simply be able to release the pain and give yourself permission to start anew.
      
      So forgiveness is big in my book. (This includes forgiving ourselves of our own misgivings.)

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      Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The Bible says we must forgive our "brother" seventy times seven times.
      Who is our "brother"?  That's a good question.
      
      A Christian must forgive others for their own sakes, else our hearts become hard and vengeful and WE will then not be able to receive forgiveness from God.   We cannot provide God's ultimate forgiveness to them, though.  They are the ones who must ask God for forgiveness.
      We can forgive someone who doesn't even ASK us for forgiveness, for OUR sakes, but not for theirs!
      Some people will quote where Jesus said "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do".  .....After Jesus died and was resurrected, it was a testament to the fact that THEN there was a way for them to get forgiveness, so THEN they DID "know what they do"/did.   Paul even rebuked them in the Scriptures, for killing Christ, in order to show them that they WERE accountable, but that they could obtain forgiveness. At the same time, he was rebuking himself, while being glad he was able to obtain forgiveness.
      
      If we have hurt someone wrongly by some kind of personal attack, we should ask them for forgiveness, sinner or saint.
      But...a sinner will often say a Christian has "hurt" them by preaching to them or trying to show them the Way.  That's a false claim of "hurt" and the Christian has no obligation to ask for forgiveness from them, nor should they.  The sinner has taken offense at the Gospel; that's not the Christian's problem nor responsibility; it's the sinner's.

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         Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         If someone showed up at your door every day for months on end trying to convert you to Islam, Judism, Hinduism, Buddhism, or some other ism, you would be "hurt" because you'd be tired of it. You would probably become offended.
         
         So sinner, don't take offense at another person's "gospel." We all should probably learn how to forgive each other.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I don't think I'd be "hurt" or "offended" as much as being irritated, and sad for them.  I'd simply tell them the Truth of the true Gospel and exercise my right to tell them they're not welcome at my door anymore.
            
            Same as if I were to go door-to-door "preaching" to anyone.  They'd have the right to tell me not to come to their door anymore.
            Different from the public arena.

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            LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Daniel and Brenda
            
            You got it....hurt" and "tired of hearing it" are two different things....
            
            They killed Stephen because they were mad, not because they were hurt. But, Phillip as a believer,it was Phillips job to ask God to forgive them their actions against him. Acts 7:54-60   
            
            I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ for it is God's power unto salvation....

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      2. 72

         LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Brenda...
         
         You are right about sinners taking offense at the preaching of the cross of Jesus  Christ....they are not hurt, they are just annoyed.....
         
         I am talking about folks who hurt by folks not by the gospel or by open rebuke.  But by some flesh action. This thread is for them.....Telling someone who is a sinner that they are a sinner and that Hell is real never hurt anyone. At least not by my definition of hurt ...it made them angry-yes, but hurt- no....
         
         We, the representatives of the Lord Jesus Christ have to gentle as lambs yet wise as serpents... 

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            Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            That's what I did, LeslieAdrienne---I hurt someone by making an assumption, from my flesh reaction.  I was out of line.
            Thank you for this thread.  I got forgiveness in it from a man with a good heart!
            Don't worry;  I never apologize for speaking the Truths of God's word!  Hell and heaven are real, and I'm so glad today that our God is real, aren't you??!!

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            1. 72

               LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Yes mam'.....

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   3. 66

      ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      first i forgive myself...

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      1. 72

         LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Absolutely,
         
         Most people overlook the fact they have hidden anger about themselves. But in our forgivng,we need to forgiv ourselves.

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2. 62

   Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

   I don't necessarily buy that forgiving is always the healthiest or best thing.
   
   I don't have a problem forgiving people who have done something without intending to. 
   
   I have a big problem with forgiving some scum bag who does something he knows will hurt someone else and who does it anyway (and a good part of the time scumbags who hurt others intentionally plain old don't care or have remorse once they do).
   
   Here's an example:  If some scumbag knows he's doing something that will cause serious heartache and sorrow in my children's lives (and I don't mean physically harm them), and he does it anyway; refuses to stop, refused to fix what he's done, refuses to apologize to them or to acknowledge what he's done - forgiving that kind of person would mean I "sold out" when it comes to my own maternal instinct to protect them (or at least get some kind of justice for them).  Someone who doesn't deserve forgiveness shouldn't get forgiveness.  He shouldn't be let off the hook (even if just in mind or his own mind).  I could live happily knowing that I would never forgive someone who intentionally caused sorrow for my children.  In fact, if sold out and forgave them, THAT is what would make me feel as if they hadn't just hurt my children, but had changed me (and in a way that wouldn't be good).
   
   If there's a God I don't believe He forgives people who go around intentionally hurting anyone else. I don't believe He'd want us to forgive scumbags either. If I EVER do anything intentionally to harm anyone else I don't think I ought to forgive myself either.  Believing "everyone should forgive everyone else, and God forgives all kinds of horrible things" is a baby's way out of having to face the consequences of doing bad things and - who knows - having to worry about rotting in Hell forever.
   
   I am happiest and sleep best knowing that I don't sell out and forgive someone who isn't worthy or deserving of it.  If there's a God, and if He doesn't like that I won't forgive some things, whatever....    I'd rather die an early death because of living without forgiving than live a long life of feeling like a sell-out who forgave the unforgivable.  The victims of those who do the unforgivable deserve the "wrath" and utter "un-forgiving" of everyone else in this world.  It's possible to "write off" someone and move on without forgiving him.
   
   It's possible to process and work through/deal with whatever crap some unforgivable person has caused without forgiving that person. When life gives you lemons you don't "make lemonnaide".  You throw them back.  Maybe you'll hit whoever you want hit and really hurt him.  Maybe you'll just show yourself and everyone else that you still have one hell of a pitching arm.  Either way you won't feel like you "just let go" of something unforgivable, gave some piece-of-scum person a pass, and - by doing so - compromised your own soul, sense of right and wrong, and values.  (Again, though - only when someone intentionally hurts someone else.)

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   1. 73

      sofsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You need to forgive for the sake of your self, as long as you hold on to bitterness and anger you find your body reacting in different ways  ulcers, hypertension, insomnia, acidity etc...
      
      I do it on a daily basis, before i go to bed i just say 'I let go of what you said or did' and i sleep get up refreshed, happy and chirpy.
      
      This works for me!!  always

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         LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         sofs
         
         Me too...it just isn't worth the repercussions....

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      getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I gotta go with this answer.

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   3. 72

      LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Lisa,
      
      Your reaction and reasoning is natural and the way that seems right. Far be it from me to suggest that forgiveness is easy...Look at child molesters....I see absoultely no reason to even remotely want to forgive them because it just doesn't make sense to me that they can stoop so low....
      
      But, and I do mean but, God's ways are not our ways. He promotes forgiveness, for the sake of the person who has been offended and for the sake of the person who has caused the offense. He loves everyone, Jesus died for everyone....we are limited in our ability to do anything, but God is not....That is the power of His love....even the child molester is forgiven by God....that is some kind of love....wow!!
      
      See Brenda's first comment.....

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   4. 72

      LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Lisa HW
      
      Your reaction is normal....it is natural to protect and defend yourself from anything or anyone who is a threat....and a person who has hurt is always a threat....but, if you allow God to love you....that is, if you accept that fact that He loves you and wants the best for you, you will find that forgiveness can be a part of what you do....
      
      Is it easy....no....is it necessary, yes
      God bless you.....

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3. 52

   jcalesposted 14 years ago

   I need to forgive my intuition and go with it from now on instead of fighting it.

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4. 68

   alternate poetposted 14 years ago

   Forgiving in the Christian sense is not a useful excercise in my opinion.  Some things need to be forgiven while others should not - some things need to be punished to deter their re-occurance.  Forgiving a wife beater feeds the problem, punsihment is the clear answer to stop the aberrant behaviour, when the perpetrator has reformed then forgiveness is appropriate.  To just 'forgive everybody' is just smug, self-conceit.

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   1. 58

      Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I see your point and agree.   But  to forgive someone for their misdeed does not mean that the issue should be ignored.
      
        Ya still gotta deal with whatever it is.
      
        Parent - child example.  I've done this a time or two.
      My child does something wrong.  I forgave them for that incident before they got their spanking.
         Forgiving someone isn't only for their benefit.
         If we don't learn to forgive people we end up very resentful as time passes.   Not good! 
         When We can Forgive someone, that doesn't mean that they don't have to rebuild your trust in them.
         forgiving someone doesn't mean that they get another opportunity to do it again and again.
        Forgiving someone means that we are not damaged by their behavior for ever.
        When our mind is focused on unforgiveness we are not thinking about other more productive stuff.

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         lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I can just see it now. "I forgive you, Little Johnny. God forgives you, Little Johnny." SMACK!
         
         Sheesh

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         1. 58

            Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I Forget that some people don't believe in corporal punishment.  I did say spanking .. not a "whopping".
               And there would be a hug coming soon after.
             
               I don't think that it should be our first response but I did use it a few times when it seemed to be the last resort. And then it was done LONG before it got to the point that I was angry.
            
              Just because forgiveness is granted doesn't mean that restitution of some kind can not be expected.
            
              That's the way I did it and if I was wrong please forgive me.

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      2. 72

         LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Jerami,
         
         I agree absolutely....I did it that way also...

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         IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I agree with you.  I think we need to also explore, the thing that get us to that point of wrong first, and forgive later.

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   2. 72

      LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Alternate Poet...
      
      You are taking it farther than it needs to go...Punishment has nothing to do with forgiveness... although we often defer punishment based on forgiveness...
      
      We are just talking about the initial step in the process of healing...not letting you go without correction.

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   3. 72

      LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Alternate Poet...
      
      Forgiveness and punishment are 2 (two) different things.....If you are getting mauled by a man-beater, you should get away and purpose to never reunite with that person again....but, for your total healing to manifest,  and to assure that you don't repeat the cycle of abuse at the hands of another "fool" you should forgive your abuser or whoever hurt you....
      
      Forgiveness helps you grow and move on in your life...unforgivenss chains you to the past.
      
      There are many men and women who cannot sustain a healthy relationship simply because they "cannot", or "will not" forgive their past hurtful, situation....
      
      It is not ever easy to forgive a deep hurt, but unless you want to live in the sting of that hurt the rest of your life, it would be best to work on forgiving....

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         Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Very well-explained, the part about forgiveness and punishment!

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         1. 72

            LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks Brenda....

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5. 62

   Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago

   I don't forgive easily. It took me 47 years to forgive the perpetrator of my abuse. But I forgave, and held his hand as he died. That forgiveness is real.
   
   I struggle to forgive four other people. Most of the time it's not a problem, but sometimes all the anger boils up again. I have learned forgiveness can't be forced. It has to come as it needs to. It's process I work with daily.
   
   And yes, I've asked for forgiveness from the four people. I don't know where they are in their process, and it doesn't matter. I just know what my process is, and I'm continuing.
   
   Forgiveness is not about forgetting the valuable lessons we had to learn in protecting ourselves. Forgiveness means that you are ready to free yourself from the chains of hate and negativity associated with another person. It means you are ready to let go of them and walk away in peace. It doesn't mean letting them offend, abuse, or attack you again. It just means that YOU are at peace with them. Forgiveness is NOT about enabling people to continue bad behavior. Forgiveness is about You being at peace with others and your environment.

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      Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      @ Daniel.. You are right.  Forgiveness isn't just a word to say to make people feel better.
          When we don't feel it, it does no good to say it.
      
          Forgiveness is a real emotion or state of being.
      Forgiveness is Peace of mind for the person that gives it.
      
         And like you said  ...  There is a time and place for it.
      
         But the sooner we can come to that time and place, the better we are for it.

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      1. 72

         LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Jerami,
         
         Truly...when real forgiveness manifests in your heart there is a "real change". Unforgiveness is like a prison sentence. It seems the deeper we have been hurt the longer we are inprisioned.
         
         But, what a glorious day when the fullness of forgiveness swings the prison doors open wide....no more hurt, no more pain, and, no more biting memories.

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well said, Daniel.

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   3. 72

      LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Daniel,
      
      We support you in your efforts to forgive....hurt is a mess and no one knows how deep it can go....I love your response....and am praying with you for the completion of your process.

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6. 0

   Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago

   Daniel,
   Was it you who I said Obama was your "master" the other day, or something to that effect?

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7. 0

   Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago

   Well, you're not back here yet.
   
   Daniel, I'm sorry I made an assumption and referred to Obama as your "master" in that one thread.   I remember you saying you didn't even vote for him, so if I offended you, I apologize.
   Will you forgive me?

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   1. 62

      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yup. Already forgiven. No big. It bothered me for a bit, but you know, Brenda we will disagree about a lot of things, but I do respect your right to what you feel you know is true. I have a lot of loved ones who feel similarly as you, and I absolutely love them. Always will. But I will absolutely disagree with them, too.
      
      
      
      Hopefully you'll forgive me for my smart mouth replies here and there.
      
      I can agree to disagree. I just want to make my point first, but that's an ego thing I have, I think. Gotta keep working on that too.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you for accepting my apology, Daniel.
         You have done an awesome thing;  it feels good and is good to be forgiven!

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            Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            
            So from now on, we will both know that we are really friends, but we can have "animated" disagreements at times. But no matter what, I'm still your friend. That's all I've tried to be all along.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               If that means we can be friends, yes, I'd like that.
               We can at least try to be "friendly", right?

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                  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Daniel and Brenda,
                  
                  God bless you both....your exchange of understanding is just what this thread is supposed to generate.....God meant us to dwell together in peace, one with the other and just reading your exchange has blessed my heart....

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                     donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     
                     This is awesome..................

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8. 61

   luvpassionposted 14 years ago

   I forgive the Maître d' for serving my girlfriends and I a chilled Merlot.

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9. 82

   donotfearposted 14 years ago

   I think the most difficult situation I had to learn to forgive happened in 1994.  I was seeing a man who boosted me up & made me feel really appreciated. I cared for him a lot.  He was obviously crazy about me, at one point. The relationship was friendly for 3 months or so, then we were romanticlly involved for 6 weeks. I sometimes pulled away from him mentally, afraid of getting hurt, but I finally let my walls down. The word Love was never brought up.
   
   All of a sudden, he disappeared for 1 week. I had a really bad feeling about it. Then I found out through a friend he had answered a woman's personal ad in the newspaper & had begun seeing her, leaving me hanging with no explanation. There were a few other factors involved that I won't go into, it would take too long, but the gist of it was it was a deliberate action.
   
   I was very hurt & angry, really beat down. I felt like He had rubbed dog crap in my face. I confronted him & his explanation was weak. He said he was 'remorseful' but I just didn't see it. It ended badly.
   
   For many months I grieved this situation. I had dreams about it & it haunted me every day. But one dream stood out.... I was at a flea market & knew he was there, but tried to avoid going near him. As I walked away from the market, he called my name....I turned around and said "I forgive you.."  I've continued to keep that mindset. His life hasn't gone well since then.
   
   I suppose I've forgiven him for what he did to me. I would welcome a discussion with him now, but it would not be appropriate. Needless to say, hurtful actions cause devastation beyond belief. It's up to us to release it.

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      LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      donotfear,
      
      You are so right....hurtful actions cause devastation, and only we can release it. Sometimes I think that we are more hurt because we ignored the warning signs than hurt by the action of the other person.
      
      It is good that forgiveness is your mindset. I wish we were perfect in that we always followed the wise thing, but, we are not perfect and so, we are hurt... sometimes we invite it by our actions and sometimes we are blindsided by the actions of others...
      
      For the sake of our sanity, we must practice forgiveness always....and, most often, the first person we need to forgive is ourselves
      God Bless You....

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         donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         
         You are so right here, Leslie.  Even though we may not actually FEEL the feeling of forgiveness, if we continue to speak it, it will evolve.

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10. 69

    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    Who or What Do You Need To Forgive?
    
    I don't need to forgive and never felt the need to forgive anyone of anything. I learned a long time ago, acceptance of my fellow human beings is all that really matter.
    
    I accept them for their strengths and weaknesses. They are flawed like I am and we are no different, except on a conscious level of awareness and wisdom of life.
    
    Forgiving is for those who haven't learned acceptance.
    
    Just a thought I'd figured worthy of sharing.

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       RFoxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I like this thought.
       Acceptance is key.

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          Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Thank you RFox. I'm glad you like it.

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    2. 72

       LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks for your thoughts Cags.....they are worth sharing.

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          Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          You're welcome.

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11. 58

    Jeramiposted 14 years ago

    When I am standing before the Lord expecting to recieve love and forgiveness  ....
      I do not want to be standing there with a heart full of hate and unforgiveness.
    
       He might look at me with a frown on his face and say...
    
    Did you not hear ?  when I said  You are going to reap what you sow in equal measure.
    
        I think that salvation is one thing.
        Rewards is another!   
       The absence of rewards is punishment?   ??????????

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       LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Jerami,
       
       That's interesting...."the absence of rewards is punishment"...I see what you mean, but I don't know. I think there is something in the middle....can't you be unrewarded yet unpunished? Maybe it is the way I think of punishment....I think of punishment as a strong verb....and I equate it with pain.
       
       If I didn't get a reward, I would be dissapointed, but I don't think I would consider that a punishment....I don't know.....
       
       I do wholeheartedly agree that when I see Jesus, I don't want my heart to be full of hate or unforgivenss either! ------ It just isn't worth it.

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          Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          It all depends upon how we understand reward.
          
             I do not expect even a small measure of the rewards that    I would expect a Mother Teresa type to recieve.
          
             It is my understanding that Salvation is free.
                  AND
             It is our rewards that are earned.
          
             I might be in heaven, emptying outhouses and be perfectly content.  Those sitting at the banquet table might see my position as a lack of rewards being my punishment?? 
             Something like that anyway.
             I don't know?  but I expect it to be fair.

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             LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I gottcha.....

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    Rajab Nsubugaposted 14 years ago

    To me forgiveness takes two levels. On one level it is the person, on the 2nd level it is the community or society. On a personal level forgiveness is much easier as it can take on variant forms. However, where communities are involved, forgiveness becomes more complex. In the latter situation it only occurs if justice is seen to be done.

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       LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Rajab,
       
       I absolutely agree....the community, society demands punishment or justice that fits the prescribed norm....the lack of "justice" as the community sees it has resulted in many a mob riot.....

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