Why, if you don't believe that something even exists would you waste your time in these threads?
And don't tell me that it's because we are spreading lies. We aren't in "other" forums talking about God and Christ Jesus. We are in a forum designated to what we believe.
To "spread" something, we would have to go beyond our category to impress on others. Anyone can read the forum titles just fine. (Or you would think at least)
And yet, you don't believe, and are consciously by choice going into a forum of a subject that you don't believe in nor care to discuss, but simply demean.
Ah yes, we can't "see" God. But we tell you that's the point, and that you don't have to believe.
But you choose to come, and then call us liars and tell us we are irrational.
Then don't come, just like all the other "rational" people who don't like Christianity done when they very clearly read the title...
Please explain your "mission"...
It's not a waste of time, then it isn't your time. You do what you want to do with your time and others will do what they want with their time. You are not of any authority, that which, requires anyone to explain themselves to, because YOU cannot nor have any power, to hold others accountable.
A lie is a lie. It's a shame you cannot see that.
And, you fail to realize it is a public forum. Not private to just religious. Got it?
A prime example that you don't understand more than you realize. Spreading is you opening your mouth about your belief and claiming it has authority over others. When the TRUTH of the matter is what you believe is for you alone.
Demean? Is your subjective view and nothing surprising that it would be skewed toward the negative. Do you know why you do that? I do, but I'm willing to bet that you don't. (btw- don't ask, because it's on a need to know basis and YOU don't need to know- I'll leave you to figure it out)
Yes, I choose to come and make sure that lies that are told are dismissed. Any irrational statement must be handled with rationality(sane thoughts).
Awww...sounds like someone should get out of the kitchen if they cannot take the heat. Yes, many rational people don't bother coming to the forum to talk about religion or their beliefs.
That's their choice to not come. And it's a choice to do so. Both, you have no authority over, so deal with it.
My mission is a path to peace. Something you won't know anything about. And, if you think you do- then please do tell me the common fundamental ground(foundation) for peace to come to be. If you don't know, just admit it.
"Awww...sounds like someone should get out of the kitchen if they cannot take the heat."
"My mission is a path to peace."
Wonderful how you compare heat with peace.. Very rational...
The continued argument that has gripped humankind is mysticism versus reality.
Religion was born from mysticism. It documents humankind's history of specific people. It tells you all about mysticism without ever using the word itself. This is all of the mind kind of things. It stems from an overabundance of the right side of the brain.
Reality is Reality. It's the real world, which we live in. Reality was a discovery of humankind. It's understanding is most often confused and distorted in context of sentences.
It's already known that nothing exists outside of reality. The "spiritual" realm is mysticism. So, when people like yourself claim that there is a god in a spiritual realm, it's dismissed as nonsense, because the "spiritual" realm of mysticism was debunked as being non-real and not part of reality.
Of course not, but you do believe that something exists and your beliefs cause conflict.
We aren't in other forums talking about gods, either. What's your point?
Which is exactly what your religion teaches you to do, go beyond respecting others to spread your message.
If your religion didn't cause any conflict, there would be no need to discuss it.
But, you do claim to see gods and you do believe, hence the problem with conflict, again.
It has been demonstrated many times with many believers here that they are lying are irrational. Those are facts.
The attempt to save mankind from religions, of course.
"Of course not, but you do believe that something exists and your beliefs cause conflict."
It takes two to tango, and I never challenged your belief.
You are challenging mine, hence you are starting the conflict simply because I state "I believe in Jesus Christ."
I'm not telling you what to believe. You're telling me what to believe.
I'm just telling what I believe.
"It has been demonstrated many times with many believers here that they are lying are irrational. Those are facts."
I do believe you lied about Marconi, whether it be out of ignorance or not, it was a lie. Need me to quote?
"The attempt to save mankind from religions, of course."
Another admission to shoving ideas down other people's throats. Wonderful.
sound of the buzzer
we do not take our beliefs to YOU.
YOU come to our beliefs (which wouldn't be so bad if you did something else other than moan and groan)
When you come to our beliefs we are not spreading the gospel anywhere. YOU are impugning YOUR beliefs UPON US, just by the intractable fact that you are here with the attitude, not to learn, not even curious, just to demean. So to coin an term, YOU are calling the kettle black, which creates intrusion (which you are, public forum or not - remember YOU impugn yourself UPON US).
We also cannot be shoving OUR ideas down peoples throats. First off i don't believe people in general are insipid enough to storm into a room and announce with a loud voice, "YOU people are shoving your opinions down my throat", when nobody but yourself pushed you into the room.
truly hilarious! I cannot grasp how you string thoughts together.
Let me put this clearly and i hope this clears up another of your dilemmas..... I'll parallel this as close as i can to hubpages forums so you maybe will grasp the meaning... beware!!! context is included
There is a meeting going on over there behind that door. There is a sign on the door says "public meeting". So in you go, and after having listened to the opinions of a few you stand up and say, "look i have a right to be here, the sign said public, so here i am and i think you people are shoving your ideas down my throat".
It is every human beings right to debate something that imposes itself upon their lifes against their will. Religion is a key topic in todays society and as such it needs to be discussed.
Would you sit by and let the KKK have their beliefs and not question them?
This is a public forum on a public site. It is not a religious site. Go to a christian site if you wish.
Would you demean the beliefs of the KKK?
But it HAS to be taught in schools right? What about abortion and stem cell research? Wether we believe or not is not the issue. It is having your beliefs forced upon us that is the issue.
Many theists I have spoken to ARE liars of course not all.
My mission is to better humanity by means of abolishing superstitious beliefs.
"My mission is to better humanity by means of abolishing superstitious beliefs."
Wonderful. We have another to admit that they want to control other people's thoughts.
"Would you demean the beliefs of the KKK?"
Don't be ridiculous. We don't hang people because of their skin color.
"This is a public forum on a public site. It is not a religious site. Go to a christian site if you wish."
No one cares if you're here. I care that you intend nothing more than to impress your opinion on others, and shove things down Christian people's throats.
Do you actually think that is an answer to the question? That is what I would call a non-answer.
Do you demean the beliefs of the KKK or not? Would you stand by and let them have their beliefs and persecute black people or would you challenge their beliefs?
If you dont want to answer the question I understand because it reflects directly on why I question religion and you're probably not going to admit it.
Unless you want to prove me wrong?
Do you want me to compare you to Hitler? He wanted to abolish religion as well..
Hitler was a religionist. Read his history.
He was even a choir boy in a catholic church. I love when people try to fob Hitler off as an atheist.
But you try to say Hitler was a Christian?
He clearly was not!
As for the choir boy thing ,means nothing ,even Satan goes to church
If youre going to attack Christ ,it would be good to get some spiritual facts straight.
He clearly was. Read his history.
I judge people by their actions.
You seriously have to have a wild imagination to think Hitler had a Spiritual bone in his body.
He hated Jews for goodness sake!!
If I was born in a garage Earnest ,would that make me a car ?
No Hitler was never a Christian.
Don't let the truth get in your way!
Please refer to my prior post for your "truth"..
I read it, now read Hitlers history.
His history includes his entire life. And the end is not the same as the beginning.
He used religion to kill millions of people.. And twisted it to serve his evilness.
Meaning he WAS NOT a religionist, because he DID NOT actually believe in it.
Why are you attempting to change the obvious truth?
Truth? Conway was yet another indoctrinated religionist. Read his history as well!
"He is now a member of the Anglican Diocese of New Westminster's Refugee Liaison Committee."
It won't ,plus my driving is quite impressive
Yes he was, and also used religion as a weapon when he felt it would further his agenda.
"Hitler was a religionist. Read his history."
"Yes he was, and also used religion as a weapon when he felt it would further his agenda."
So therefore you were lying, because he didn't actually believe in the religion he was abusing for leverage and you knew that.
Which means he wasn't a religionist at all... Just someone that twisted religion to suit his madness..
"Hitler was a religionist. Read his history."
Speaking of lies...
"His private statements, as reported by his intimates, show Hitler as critical of traditional Christianity, considering it a religion fit only for slaves; he admired the power of Rome but had severe hostility towards its teaching. Here Hitler's attack on Catholicism "resonated Streicher's contention that the Catholic establishment was allying itself with the Jews." In light of these private statements, for John S. Conway and many other historians it is beyond doubt that Hitler held a "fundamental antagonism" towards the Christian churches. The various accounts of Hitler's private statements vary strongly in their reliability; most importantly, Hermann Rauschning's Hitler speaks is considered by most historians to be an invention.
In the political relations with the churches in Germany however, Hitler readily adopted a strategy "that suited his immediate political purposes". Hitler had a general plan, even before the rise of the Nazis to power, to destroy Christianity within the Reich. The leader of the Hitler Youth stated "the destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the National Socialist movement" from the start, but "considerations of expedience made it impossible" publicly to express this extreme position. His intention was to wait until the war was over to destroy the influence of Christianity."
My my my... All the lies lies lies...
Actually Hitler was an ex-Catholic as many athiests who post here are.
What are you saying Sir Dent?
Are you saying that Catholics are the wrong religion, or are you saying that he is not a christian as Catholics are not Christians?
You know what I meant. How many of the atheists who post here are ex-christians? Ex-Catholic?
I remember a thread about being de baptised a few months ago.
I think most of them were Christians.
hence the avarice which comes from bitterness which comes from failure after which self justification is needed and if that does not work.. denial is evident.
I was never catholic. I was christian of the pentecostal variety (by indoctrination). I recall my mother saying that catholics & anglicans weren't 'real' christians
I knew you wouldnt answer the question.
You want me to tell you that I don't agree with killing people because they have a different color skin?
And that I don't agree with putting separate bathrooms, and water fountains, and schools because people have different colored skin?
And that I don't agree with unloving acts against all which Christ Jesus taught?
No, I absolutely don't agree with any of that..
I do care that they are here; they are human beings, they have a right to co-exist peacefully.
One must have some tolerance.
perhaps it is because religion is pushed on us from birth. if your over 35 then all through school you were exposed to religion whether you wanted to be or not. perhaps it is also because if a person is not shown any better, then how are they going to realise that god is nothing but a figment of some peoples minds. perhaps one of the reasons that religious people are bothered by athiests being in on the religious threads is that we make too much sense but due to the teachings of religion, religious people are afraid that god is a hoax and that when you die, it's over. no life after death, no heaven with all it's glory, etc., PERHAPS.
"if your over 35 then all through school you were exposed to religion whether you wanted to be or not."
Don't push yourself into a corner..
If your under 25 you've never heard anything but "evolution, evolution, evolution."
"perhaps it is also because if a person is not shown any better, then how are they going to realise that god is nothing but a figment of some peoples minds."
Like I said, we welcome your opinion. Thank you..
"perhaps one of the reasons that religious people are bothered by athiests being in on the religious threads is that we make too much sense but due to the teachings of religion, religious people are afraid that god is a hoax and that when you die, it's over. no life after death, no heaven with all it's glory, etc., PERHAPS."
Don't be ridiculous. I've been over the "logic" thing in this thread and others. We obviously all don't walk in the same shoes.
Some people don't believe in ghosts, some do. Why?? Because of personal experience. We don't care about your "sense" because through what has happened to me, your idea makes absolutely no sense at all.
Your science makes absolutely no sense either, and they claim all sorts of things.
But the fact remains science is a puzzle that isn't even close to being solved, hence the reason I think it's ridiculous to try to base your understanding of life on it.
I guess you know what the picture looks like in a thousand piece puzzle with only 25 pieces connected.
And I don't fear death. I think it's irrational to think something as amazing as life could come into being, just to vanish again. All of existence doesn't exist for NOTHING. That would be absurd...
No. I believe in God because it makes perfect sense as we are designed intelligently just like very invention in this world was. A TV's intelligent design did not come about by itself just because it works, or new stations with better picture quality show up...
Your "sense" doesn't make sense because you don't have answers to any questions. You just deny things just because you can't see them with your beady little eyes..
debate is fine
do you know where one is?????
Vector, this is the Religion and Philosophy forum. And religious beliefs can be considered a philosophy. And religion includes more than christian faiths. Wicca and Satanism are religions as well. Maybe not your cup of tea, but religions just the same. Freedom of religion, means all religions.
Copied and pasted.. Top of the screen.
* All Forums
* Religion and Philosophy
* Christianity, the Bible and Jesus
* Why do atheists spend so much time here?
And I still don't mind them being in any forum. I mind them choosing to come into forums knowing what "I" believe trying to tell me to hush.
I'm not attempting to silence them. Why should I not have a voice?
I have a brain. I choose to believe something. I'm allowed to tell people what "I" believe. And what the Bible says as well, considering this IS under "* Christianity, the Bible and Jesus".
I don't start conflicts. People telling me what "I" should believe is what starts conflicts.
Still falls under Philosophy in my opinion.
I don't think anyone has a problem with beliefs of anyone...Only when those are claimed as factuals truths...not as personal truths. There are things that I consider to be truths. But, I don't claim them to others as anything other than my personal truths (and normally add that disclaimer). So, I would guess that sometimes the perception would be that beliefs are being posted as factual truths, even if they are posted as personal truths and beliefs only.
I can go with that partly DS..
I do personally believe the things I say as absolute truths.
Just as everyone comes to what they believe is true because they think it is an absolute truth, or they either believe you make truth.
I can say that "I" believe it is an absolute truth.
The "I" is the personal part. I don't intend to make anyone believe something they choose not to. I may have pressed too hard in the past, but it was never my intention to make anyone do anything.
I personally believe they are factual truths. Other's can disagree as they have their own personal belief of factual truth.
So I agree that it is my personal belief, but if I were to say I believe it only applies to me.. Well, then I really would be a liar wouldn't I?
But I agree that the things which I believe are factual, are MY beliefs.
Ok. I understand your points...But, remember others on this site also have beliefs that they consider to be truths as well. And chances are, even if you share similar beliefs, at one point or another you will find differences. If we are going to educate each other to what our beliefs are and expect them to respect our right to hold those beliefs, then we must in turn show them the same courtesies.
Hey Vector..I felt compelled to respond to this. Because you said that same thing to me once. I think we all come into the forum and look at all of the topics under the primary heading. It looks like you think everyone should click on the subcategories. I doubt you do that, or anyone else either.
You're going to wear yourself thin trying to argue this crazy stand. I only say this because I watched a guy run around a thread trying to disprove god about a month ago. It gets ugly. You should stop while you're behind.
"I doubt you do that, or anyone else either."
For starters, more assumptions. You doubt wrong. I'm not like everyone and therefore my actions can't be predicted by others.
"You should stop while you're behind."
And this is EXACTLY the thing I have a problem with.
Do I tell you what to do? Do I tell you what to think? Or post? Or not to post?
NO. I don't. The whole shove what I want you to think and do in your face.... Is getting old.
Bombarded with the same repetitious comments telling others they are wrong and to hush and to not do this and not believe that.
"It gets ugly."
Yes... It does when people start telling other people what they should and should not do.
I would like to hear what other people think themselves. Not what they think about what I think. I don't put down their thoughts, and would like them not to put down mine.
And telling me to "stop" is attempting to silence me. I find that very disturbing.
vector, I completely agree.
Vector. Yes, I see this.. You are unique..most of that was just a joke, making light of this whole thing.. And it appears you've taken offense.
Wait..I take it back. It seems everyone here wants to feel persecuted. So it appears you are more like others than you believe yourself to be.
Yes. We can see you take people's right to state their opinion without being demeaned light.
And telling other people that they should quit posting their opinion because you think it's irrelevant.
Yes. I see exactly how much everything is a joke to you.
Until you are the one with the problem...
"I have spent a lifetime counting to three and smiling through gritted teeth at this type of hateful mentality, but I remained quiet because it was simply directed at me."
And then nothing is a joke and everyone else is the problem..
No. I think maybe you should say what you mean and mean what you say and forget the joking, IF you want people to actually know what you are attempting to convey..
And not only. I believe it's a double standard to become upset about someone stating their opinion.
And THEN expect me to be delighted when you tell me I don't deserve to post my opinion..
Attempting to point these double standards out to you is getting very, very, verrry tiresome...
Vector, you really really need to lighten up. I have never advocated that anyone should not state their mind.And I think you know this. If I find a post reflects a brutish mentality, I will respond. I have never seen your posts come off that way and, quite frankly, I was surprised you stepped up in support of him.
Anyway, I'm on a droid right now. I can't see the rest of your post. If I somehow gave you the impression that I thought you had no right to speak, you misunderstood my intent. I have already said I was going to stop offering apologies. No one else does, no matter the need. So, if you were offended, get over it.
"So, if you were offended, get over it."
Let me help you..
"So, if you were annoyed, get over it."
You are definitely what you are vector. Enjoy your little tiff. The atheists aren't going anywhere. And for good reason. The christian threads would lack common sense without their presence. They're doing you a service whether you see it or not.
when i ask a question on any section in here, religious folks answer using god as a reference or an example. when i ask how the world will be in 100 years, religious people throw their silly concepts of how judgement day is coming and in 100 years the planet will be nothing like it is now. if that's ok then why have a problem with an athiest speaking their minds about questions asked in the religious forums?
You seem to be overlooking the problem I'm attempting to point out...
"So - It is not worth trying to stop it?"
That is not just his opinion. That is him trying to "stop" us from posting ours.
He doesn't want to just state what he thinks.
He wants harass us because he doesn't want us to post our opinion..
They are welcome to speak their minds.
The childish repetition, name calling, and attempts to "stop" us from stating anything we think is what we don't particularly welcome.
Sorry you don't think it is a good idea to try and stop the conflicts.
Quote me out of context in order to make it look as though I said something I did not again. I love it when Christians demonstrate their "moral code."
No wonder your religion has caused so many conflicts.
Let the atheists agnostics skeptics join the discussion here; only expose their untruthfulness with reason and rational arguments; that would be polite.
It would also be impossible.
The only thing that gets exposed here is the gullibility of the terminally religious.
The word you wanted was reality.
In the face of the bible, reality takes a second seat to the one who created the reality. This is displayed frequently. Even the future is predictable to God.
the waves and wind stop at Gods whim. How can they? Do they have ears or an intellect to control their own actions? No. So God must work at a molecular level, which is where everything is created from.
therefore do i say, that to believe only in reality is limited thinking and to put reality as being above God or in place of God, in my opinion, is insanity.
no buzzer cuz im feelin all lovey dovey
Are you implying that god attacked Japan?
...i'm over here...i'm waiting too....
Good things take time. In this case it seems a lot of time!
this is the response i get.
Am i implying that God attacked japan
I have less and less regard for your ability to comprehend with every post from you.
You claimed your god controls the elements, then you don't have the honesty to admit it. Don't you read your own posts?
Want me to go get your post again so you can see for yourself.
In truth you left it unanswered because you did not have the goolies to deal with it.
Attempts to simplify things to.. "God controls everything, and all bad comes from Him." is absurd.
God has limited mankind's knowledge of Him to what we need to know for our own good. And you attempt to use it to undermine Him.
If you think God doesn't exist then it should be noted that you can't know much about something if you presently think it is non existent.
Not only, but considering something that surpasses all understanding of simplistic creatures and something that transcends all knowledge and wisdom itself, how can you possibly attempt to claim that He is bad? Or does bad things?
If childish behaviour consists of one enjoying the pain of another because one doesn't understand what pain is, then how could God possibly be subject to such?
He understands all things. All things were created by Him..
Do you design a machine without knowing everything about it?
Can you build a race car from scratch and not know every detail within it?
So how can you apply a nature of childish behaviour which is the cause of lack of understanding to a being that understands every detail of minute proportions pertaining that WHICH HE CREATED?
That's like saying as well, that a man plants a garden and finds pleasure in cutting all his vegetables down with the lawn mower for pleasure.
Or.. A man builds a machine to perform a task, just so he can put obstacles in it's way to laugh at it..
A being of infinite intelligence would also not waste time on something, just to destroy it.
There are reasons you are unaware of.. And even still, obviously, you are unaware that there are reasons you are unaware of..
God existing, renders God all knowing. And if God knows all then your childish accusations are very keen indications that you don't understand just what the fact of God being God is...
how can not believing in something that you can nither see, hear, smell, taste or actually feel be insane. i may be wrong but those kinds of beliefs are what usually cause some people to end up in nut-houses.
Do I need to go over Marconi's story with you too??
Yes, please do, this should be interesting.
"You are lying, again. Marconi was never locked up for inventing wireless radio telegraph."
"It may interest you to know that Marconi's "friends" had him taken
into custody, and examined in a psychopathic hospital, when he announced he had discovered a principle through which he could send messages through the air, without the aid of wires, or other direct physical means of communication. The dreamers of today fare better."
- Napoleon Hill
THINK and GROW RICH
Yes. Please do claim things don't exist because you cannot see them at the present time.
For they did not have tools for radio waves then, and prior to radios thought it ridiculous to consider transfer of information through the air.
But now, we see how ridiculous it was to consider that just because we couldn't [past tense] see something, doesn't mean we won't [future tense] see something...
And stop lying and then calling me the liar...
Ah, so Marconi was NOT locked up as you originally claimed. So, you did lie.
Of course, your quote comes from one book and is not substantiated anywhere else.
But, the fact is you did lie.
Radio waves obviously have a measurable and tangible effect, whether we can see them or not. Of course, you dishonestly use this as a support your irrational beliefs.
The evidence of your lies is in many of your posts, and they have been exposed one by one.
"Ah, so Marconi was NOT locked up as you originally claimed. So, you did lie."
No. "locked up" is referring to being taken into a place by means of authority against his will..
"...Marconi's "friends" had him taken
into custody, and examined in a psychopathic hospital..."
The underlined word to note is "custody."
Get technical if you like. They TOOK HIM AGAINST HIS WILL.
That was my point. AND that he was extensively mentally examined .
That... Is obvious from the quote from the book.
"Of course, your quote comes from one book and is not substantiated anywhere else."
Notice, that here as in every time a source is used, you would like to invalidate it simply because of it not supporting your personal agenda.
Napoleon Hill had no reason to lie about anything within that book.
But of course, we see that anyone, including a third party author not engaged in the discussion, is dismissed as a liar because it does not support your accusation.
You have no evidence of any lies. Just an attempt to dismiss an author's witness because his claims prove your efforts useless.
So, now anyone who doesn't believe a god exists is untruthful(for a better word- liars) themselves.
The pot calling the kettle?
paar, Do you mean the atheists should join the discussion by fighting christians who are discussing their faith in the forums? Barging in the forums and attacking believers because of their faith is not hardly a discussion.
"Even more funnier stuff" is not correct grammar. I would expect better from the Almighty.
You'd think god would be grammatically impecable - I'm disgusted. D minus God, back to school.
Do you think the Lord realizes that the angels behind him are laughing at his terrible grammatical faux pas and not the book?
You got to admit that their are some posters that are somewhat fascist, and will not allow the lesser versed types to post, so convinced are they apparently, that opposing views to their own are a danger to world.
"...opposing views to their own are a danger to world."
The opposing view is not the issue, nor is it a danger.
The way it is gone about is, as I just tell what I believe, while they tell me what to believe.
Notice the difference?
vector, Exactly, It's a big difference.
Vector, shame on you. Everyone has a right to be here and, think about it. How much fun would you be having without the atheist presence? Who would you call beelzebub? Who would you warn of hell? Think of all the scripture you wouldn't have the opportunity to post. You love us. That's what you said anyway.
"Everyone has a right to be here..."
Good point, just like I have rights to believe things without being demeaned because I state so. Right?
"You love us. That's what you said anyway."
I do love you, not the constant accusations though.
Well, I agree that no one should feel demeaned. That being said; you made a comment that one of the christians on another thread calling non believers heathens wasn't harsh. I think the comments were demeaning. The point being, it appears everyone does it and feels justified when that do, and receive support for doing it. I'm afraid it may simply be you're feeling demeaned when, maybe, that isn't what an atheist thinks is happening.
And, you have to admit, telling people they are headed for hell is an accusation that you think they've done something wrong. Again, a different point of view; which you feel justified in having.
It's all relative.
"Telling people they are headed for hell is an accusation that you think they've done something wrong."
Yes but I don't chase them around telling them.. 'Your going to Hell.' ... 'Your going to Hell.' .... 'Your going to Hell.'
Post a scripture that I believe is true on a forum dealing with "The Bible" means "I" believe it.
If they don't think it's true, then how can they be threatened?
That's like saying I believe I'm not going to exist when I die just because they believe God doesn't exist.
I'm not threatened because of what they think, and I don't tell them not to think God doesn't exist.
"That being said; you made a comment that one of the christians on another thread calling non believers heathens wasn't harsh."
No I most certainly didn't. And those are the accusations I don't like. You didn't even quote him about it like I asked.
The explanation is simple, as the definition is someone who doesn't acknowledge the God of the Bible. They don't acknowledge the God of the Bible.
That's like saying it's offensive to call me white when I am white.
Ok. I looked. you are right. You said you didn't think it was a hateful mentality to refer to non believers as heathens. Since the definition can mean an uncivilized person, I think it's hateful.
As to the rest. It is simply something you will have to deal with. Stop being so negative. You have an opportunity to profess and defend your faith. They are arguing what they know to be true. We all have a chance to share our views. Everybody wins.
Besides. It's the christian thing to do. Many of these people don't feel comfortable sharing their thoughts in the real world. You should be kind and considerate, in the face of what you consider to be adversity.
This place would be boring without all of the voices and you know it. It would be about as interesting as the pets or relationships forums.
"We all have a chance to share our views."
That's exactly my point. I want to see people who believe in God be ABLE to share their views without being called names and told to hush because they are spreading lies.
Our beliefs are our beliefs. And no one has the right to tell us not to talk, just like we don't tell them to stop posting what they believe.
You were saying?
Your word I believe.
"Then don't come, just like all the other "rational" people who don't like Christianity done when they very clearly read the title...
Please explain your "mission"..."
Don't come if all you want to do is tell other people not to post what they think and believe.
Read what you posted.
"Our beliefs are our beliefs. And no one has the right to tell us not to talk, just like we don't tell them to stop posting what they believe."
But you do don't you?
I posted that people who don't want to hear what Christians think have the option of not coming to read it.
You really should start trying to objectify your points more clearly...
<------ sits back with popcorn and a comfy chair
You laughing because you don't understand that I was calling you irrational for coming into a forum about things you "don't" believe to tell other people what not to believe?
It's wonderful to see just how confused you are.
Or either in desperate attempts in childish pleasure to appease your lack of purpose to try to portray something as is was not intended.
This is exactly the ill-mannered approach to things which promotes self pride..
You're a waste of time. Maybe you should attempt reading the rest of the thread before thinking you can make it look like I'm saying something I am not.
No Vector, he is trying to point out that you are claiming a position that is "do as I say, not as I do", and you know what, he's right.
You are accusing people of doing something, you yourself do.
"You are accusing people of doing something, you yourself do."
Quote me. And I'll apologize...
Pick a post of your choosing.
You have a belief in a god. Yet, there is no god. When those who tell you there isn't a god, you continue to claim there is one.
The probability of one existing is non-existent. Therefore, is impossible, regardless of what you yourself believe to be true.
What has been proven is that the probability of a god existing is non-existent. You spout like it's true that a god exists and when you do so in a public place, regardless of whether or not, this is a religious forum, those who know the probability are going to let you know about it.
If you don't like it? I cannot do anything about that. What I can do is inform you that the belief you spread is unfounded.
Don't waste your time then. I don't think the world will be stood on end.
Earnest, here, you are being petty, and consciously not triying to understand what vector7 is clearly EXPLAINING, without any affront to you. You must be tired, because I thought you are normally a more intelligent converser than that; and I make no claims for myself.
Having said that, I find it opportune to say that I am very impressed with both Vecor7 and Brotheryochanan -guys, you are quite the articulate fellows, concise, respectful, and knowlageable in your posts; thank you -it is the most refrehing thing I have seen here for a while. I hope you both continue the good fight (that's a cliche).
Read the threads.
Everybody gets frustrated, but they still explain themselves so clearly, I wonder why there is [consitant] retorts of a nature that would not be tolerated in any school of thought (especially an in-person venue). You can agree with that, can't you? You know, in-person venues (like schools) don't tolerate petty bickering and the like, because it interrups the learning process. Loose tongues cause arguments and more nasty stuff. Post replies in an organized, intelligent, and respectful way in this school (and uncontrolled venue) in order to learn the subject, even if the subject is one you find appropriate to attend, it deserves more than just a twitter type of interjection of organized thought. That way, we can all benefit from everyone's viewpoint. Backtalk is childish.
Vector. I didn't read the whole exchange between you and Ernest when he responded to your comment to me, but he made a very good point. Your beliefs are yours, and you revel in the joy of sharing them. Yet you would silence every other voice.
Christianity is an option. It is not the only way. People have a right to be heard.
"Yet you would silence every other voice."
You should really consider reading the rest of my posts in this thread before stating obviously false claims...
Vector, now that isn't fair. I cannot be expected to read everything you say. You say a WHOLE lot of things. I'd spend all day trying to keep up. I can only go by the conversations we have.
Anyway, truce? This is really silly, don't you think? I get your frustration, but I think everyone gets frustrated. Across the board. It'll pass.
"You state your opinion, and I'll state mine."
Wasn't hard to find. Directly at the bottom. No clutter at all...
Heavy sigh. Repeat. Repeat.
Ok, I use this thing in chronological mode. We're at the bottom. I have no idea what your are talking about.
You are as insufferable as beelzedad can be at times. It seems you simply want to argue, for the sake of argument. I was trying to be nice. I'll stop now. You go on being mean.
the irony here is that as a kid i was beaten for telling a minister that god wasn't real. people are hurt everyday for going against their religious background. religion has hurt millions of people in the name of god but somehow debating religion isn't right or just. please,.
Christ Jesus never hurt anyone. Nor have His teachings of love..
Don't compare your parents actions with those of Christ's and people who believe in love.
And disrespect is a very common problem with people today. I'm not saying your parents were right. I'm saying just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean you get to tell everyone else what to do with their brains.
What don't you understand about everyone gets to have their own opinion?
You think because you can't see God you get to be dictator and push your ideas into everyone's heads?
How do you think you get to choose what you believe, but we don't get to choose what we believe?
We already know what you think. And we would love to discuss why...
But we don't get to do that because of all the false accusations like that personal junk you posted about your parents like it applies to all of humanity or something.
Debate and stop making accusations..
"Delusion is a danger to the world. Is it not?" Ah yes you are the missionary. Think we have had this argument before. And I don't mind having it again. Bit of a stretch. Eat all your dinner because there are children starving in China.
Its not that Atheists or Hindu's or Christians shouldnt be here ( I think)...
It is quite simply why do Atheists feel the need to chair the meeting
Sure by all means jump in wherever and add too,or refute ,or cheer on ,but every single post ,its like a watching a game of ping pong tennis
I would like to see them begin a thread or two of their own,or dont they talk to each other?
Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god. An atheist forum would be like a forum for people who dont collect stamps.
Sounds a little bit silly dont you think?
Sorry that tickled my fancy.
So maybe you can answer this for me.
Why refute a fact you dont believe is true?
Mock a God that they say doesnt exist?
Could it really be that Atheists dont want Christians to have a voice?
Refute a fact? You're funny. I'm sorry- "God" is not a fact. It is something believed true. Just because something is believed true does not make it fact. Nor does it make it truth.
It's not mocking a god that doesn't exist. It is trying to explain to those who claim the existence of one is improbable.
First, are you human? If so, then you have a voice. I don't care if you're Christian or not.
You have a right to say what you want. But, I reserve the same right to keep the conversation based on reality and keep it away from mysticism which was debunked as not real.
yah i went into the math forum and started talking geography with them
after a while they wanted me to leave and not come back
but i persisted! The door was open and the sign said PUBLIC
odd, we never agree that 2+2= north america
they are such fools in the math department
they tell me i am wrong
i won't let them silence me, I am on a mission that they cannot purport their insane math ideas!!!!
geography rules and thats that. Why? because its more realistic!
i can see land and water
i can't see math except on a chalkboard or a BOOK written by man
dem sum krazee peps
Primes do not exist they are just a man made idea! written by some ignorant shepherd
sort of like god and the bible yet you believe in it with all your heart. math was created by man and is based on facts created by man so to say that 2+2=north america doesn't make sense. the whole point is that it is reality whereas religion is based on aasumption and belief.
We can see where your logic gets you.
Things go right over the top of your head don't they?
We have a saying here. "If I want you to bark, I'll pull your chain."
Here is you quote, now try to make it say something else.
"Even the future is predictable to God.
the waves and wind stop at Gods whim."
I guess if they stop at his whim, it would seem he has control of the elements that have rained havoc on the world. Japan is in the world.
I guess it is OK to lie for jesus?
We see your accusations based on simplistic assumptions..
Not discussion. Accusations with no base. Slandering of character. Disrespect.
"I guess it is OK to lie for jesus?"
I do believe those who would like to see the liars may follow this thread to my posts about Adolf Hitler.
Oh. And Marconi being taking into custody to be examined as well.
Yes.. We see the liars. And how the liars are lying on others...
some didn't see the depth. You're a smart one
Yes they don't want christians to have a voice.
"I would like to see them begin a thread or two of their own,or dont they talk to each other?"
Kiwi, I guess they think christians should be doormats, and allow them to walk all over us. I would love to see an atheist thread also.
Just look back a little, there have been such threads here in the past.
You may even learn something.
I think were done with you shoving your personal learning down our throats.
We don't live by your rules, and we are sorry you don't like it but it's not going to make us think what you want us to.
You science is irrelevant to us. That is a fact.
But keep shoving, I'm sure no one will notice...
Learn something. ..
Maybe learn to agree we are different and you can't force your thoughts into our brains.
There is something for you to learn.
Science is not irrelevant to you. It is relevant to everyone, and the reason many of us are alive today, whether you like it or not.
I'm speaking of the science that isn't even fully put together yet.
Millions of years this, and billions of years that..
Someone here stated humans are flawed. He is right. But you think you can measure things in millions and billions and be accurate??
Give me a break. I think we have a lot of amazing information. But we are limited.
I love science. But none of you can give me a reason for how life initially came about.
And if you do... It's a theory.. Puff it up, blow up the balloon, try to make it look good all you want. THEORY.
Just something you BELIEVE...
"But none of you can give me a reason for how life initially came about. "
Yes it is a theory, and no I dont "believe" that it happened like that due to lack of evidence although the main point here, is that the theory of abiogenesis demonstrates how life can arise from non life and do so completely within the parameters of physics.
This basically shows that no magic force was necessary to poof life into existance. It can happen on its own, within the laws of physics.
You might also want to look into the research conduted last year where scientists created self replicating and mutating RNA strands from mere, non living chemicals.
You might say they created life.
Of course Im pretty sure you wont.
I could give you a reason ,but I doubt whether youd like it(based on your other posts) ,so wont bother.
Why ask questions ,that you only want to disagree with?
Makes no sense.
I wasnt asking a question, I was answering one???
Jesus was a hippy wrote:
"But none of you can give me a reason for how life initially came about.
That is what I was replying to. That is why I put it in quotes.
You are not going to get any sense out of that one.
So you asked ,then answered your own question?
Sounds more like you are speaking about things in which you have little understanding.
How important is it for that kind of accuracy when you're talking about billions of years, for example, to be off by a few million or so years?
Does that lack of accuracy somehow support your argument for complete refutation of the evidence and your claims that your god exists?
Why is it always the most fervent believers are the ones say "we are limited"?
Then, you contradict yourself when you say you love science.
Then it should be no surprise based on your rationale that believing in gods waving their magic hands is no more plausible than the theories you dismiss.
"Then, you contradict yourself when you say you love science."
I do love science. Have you checked out the Clarifying Christianity page linked to from my page?
Scientific. Scientific. Scientific..
"Why is it always the most fervent believers are the ones say "we are limited"?"
You are limited.
Can you travel to even one single other planet in your very own galaxy?
Can you see every galaxy in existence?
Can you live on the sun?
Mankind can't even get beyond their very own earth's crust to study the mantle. It's too hot. And you think you aren't limited???
"Does that lack of accuracy somehow support your argument for complete refutation of the evidence and your claims that your god exists?"
No. It supports that you have no further indication of having all the answers than do I.
And no matter if you did, our opinions are still granted, wrote up by our founding fathers no doubt. But you don't believe in what they do I suppose either... The American thing you know? Freedom..
You state your opinion, I'll state mine.
Yes, I saw that and was laughing my head off as the site tried to explain why the earth is less than 10,000 years old.
Garbage. Garbage. Garbage.
What utter ridiculous examples. Living on the sun?
No, you'll state your indoctrinated beliefs. And, you will not consider them opinions but instead the absolute truth. And, nowhere in your scriptures will it explain how to live on the sun.
I'm not particularly saying I'm an atheist, but I'd think "religion and beliefs" or "religion and philosophy" includes the beliefs and/or philosophies of people who don't believe the same things religious people believe. Religion, beliefs, and philosophies can all be either very personal matters, or else be public, social, or political matters. Either way, I don't see why people of any belief system would be excluded from discussing such subjects. (Generally, I don't discuss any of that stuff on here - but obviously, lots of other people want to and ought to if that's what they want to discuss. Diverse opinions are what make discussions/debates "dialogues" instead of "monologues". A lot of people like that.
Discussion is fine.
The attempted forcing to make Christians believe and say what they want us to believe and say is the problem..
I don't mind them stating what they think.
I don't want them telling me what to think.
I agree dialogue must continue between different sections of the society.
Where have any religionists attempted to do that? Like many others I have posted plenty of peer reviewed information that has links to real information. In two years neither myself, Mark, Cagsil or any others have ever had a single person read them then make an intelligent rebuttal.
No, you guys are not open to learn anything.
By ditto do you mean you are the same as the others I mentioned.
Where is your evidence peer reviewed, I have posted dozens, I have never seen one reply from you to any of them or any non biblical source for any of what you have posted.
Using a book to prove itself true is hardly scientific!
We don't "believe" in scientific facts that need correction every week.
Need I say again.. "Faith"
You are trying to "push" .. "scientific fact" on us. You cannot prove God is not there. Never will.
You may claim evolution. But who cares, the fact still remains that doesn't mean there isn't a God even if it was possibly true...
Your telling us to stop having faith. Which is telling us what to do..
I have heaps of faith that your faith is unfounded and based on a myth.
Hey vector. I'm curious what exact sect of christianity do you hail from?
I don't hail from any sect.
I follow Christ Jesus from the scriptures in the Bible and everything else the Bible teaches.
Christ Jesus is my Lord, my God, my Savior. He is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. He died for my sins and I owe Him my everything.
That is where I stand. I hope it suffices.
So, you aren't a member of a church?
I'm just trying to get a handle here. all christians think differently, and they say they're christian, but don't agree on interpretation.
Are you more like the pentecostals or the fundamentalists?
That's what they all say vector. Fine. I'll assume you're pentecostal too.
No. They claim sects.
Your hint was I'm not one of them...
How many times do you need to hear "faith" before your brain understands it is a word with a meaning?
"away from mysticism which was debunked as not real." I am mystic and a Pagan.
You dont count either
See what I mean ,by wanting to chair the meeting
It's not about chairing the meeting EK and you should know it.
It's about being on the same page within the confines of reality, because there is nothing outside of it.
"It's about being on the same page..."
To be on the same page you would have to tell us what to think.
You don't want us to believe what we want to. You want us to believe what YOU want us to believe.
Stop pushing your beliefs on people.... It causes conflicts..
No, not actually. But, it would be nice if you understood more about the human species than you do presently.
You can believe whatever you like. However, when you open your mouth to discuss them, the conversation must remain within reality, because it must be rational, sane and logical. You spouting of things you believe true, but are not actually true, is by definition lying.
Actually, I would hope that you wouldn't even have a clue as to what my beliefs are to begin with. You keep interpreting my statements as a belief, which would be wrong. I don't share my beliefs, especially when it comes to life topics.
My beliefs are my business and you have no need to know what they are.
I don't. It's your skewed view that things everyone is just like you, spreading their beliefs.
It goes to show how one-dimensional your thinking is.
"My beliefs are my business and you have no need to know what they are."
That's not a very smart statement, as your "beliefs" are posted all over this site by you already..
Your statement goes to show you lack any honest with self.
Here is one of my beliefs okay? I believe the RedSox are going to win the world series. It could be true, it could be false, but will most certainly be answered either way.
I don't spread my beliefs, because my beliefs are personal. I usually don't bother telling anyone what my beliefs are, because I refuse to argue about my beliefs.
I do however, pass along things which I have learned over the course of my life and every experience I have had, can be explained in language that is understandable to each person who reads what I write.
You can claim a god all you like. And, while you do so, I will take pleasure informing the improbability of one to exist is non-existent.
Your a bottomless pit of endless, useless, circling words..
I don't know why I bother.
I still love you buddy..
Have a good one Cag..
It's your usage of language which is getting you into trouble. Yeah, quit while you're behind.
Cagsil said (couldn't find that word in the dictionary, so i must assume it isnt a real word but lets keep this in reality)
"the conversation must remain within reality, because it must be rational, sane and logical"
when in rome do as the romans.
You cannot keep christian conversation within the realms of reality.
Did parting the sea or jesus healings remain within reality? To take out the supernatural would make christianity, umm something else. You cannot separate the supernatural from christiandom. The opening sentence of genesis ... and in the beginning GOD CREATED the heaven and the earth... and all through the bible are miracles, signs and wonders, incredible reality shaking events and the bible ends with GODs supernatural power being displayed for all to see!
Sorry but you are completely and totally wrong on this idea of yours.
"He hated Jews for goodness sake!!"
Jews as the chosen people. Germans as the master race.
"See what I mean ,by wanting to chair the meeting". Thought that was a really astute comment. Guess it gives a psychological bent.
"of reality, because there is nothing outside of it." Who gets to define reality?
That kind of thinking is what was wrong when humankind thought the earth was flat....
Correct. So what's your point. Humans are flawed, just like you.
But, like I've said a good hundred times-
Life doesn't require any knowledge of any god, to be understood.
Life doesn't require any knowledge of any god, to be lived.
Therefore, no god required.
sound of the buzzer!
Life does not require any knowledge of God, (correct) to be understood (incorrect) Life doesn't require any knowledge of any god (correct) to be lived (incorrect)
lets look at the corrects first:
People go through life without knowledge of God. (setting aside the fact that pretty much everybody has some knowledge of God). Yes they do and some have nice, comfy lives. Now compared to the bibles teachings, this is NOT the life that GOD wants to give them.
summary, life does not need, require, demand any knowledge, understanding of god to exist day by day until cessation from this life and all that life had to offer them. A life not so good for some and great for others. I can drink water and go to the bathroom and function at my job without the knowledge of god. Yep.
lets look at the uncorrects:
Since i previously mentioned that God does not want to give us THIS life, which is the life you suggested, we need to take note of the life that God wants to give us, so there must be another life that your post does not account for.
Existence on this planet and daily living doesn't require knowledge of god to be understood or lived BUT to live the life that God wants to give, knowledge of God is paramount.
can you dig what the rock (jesus christ) is cooking!!?
All you're good for is mocking. Again, nothing new.
Cagsil you're always in here downing someone for believing in God and yeah I meant to capitalize that.
Interesting. I don't know you. However, apparently you've paid close enough attention to my posts, to warrant the above post.
Okay, no problem. So, apparently you want attention now and now you have it. What can I do for you?
As for downing people for believing in a god. If you want to see it as that, then what I say or do isn't going to change that. You apparently have an issue with me, otherwise, you wouldn't have posted.
So, if you want to, I'll give you a hint. There is no god. The god people claim exists, supposedly exists in another realm, outside of reality. They make claims god is a spirit, but fail to realize that "spiritual" is mysticism and it's not real.
So, what next?
"My beliefs are my business and you have no need to know what they are."
"So, if you want to, I'll give you a hint. There is no god."
Not two minutes goes by and you contradict yourself yet again...
No contradiction. Your skewed view is seeing something not there.
That is your repeated phrase when you do contradict yourself.
Telling me I'm skewed is a last resort.
There is no God to you? does not mean there is no God.
Do you know how pathetically ridiculous that statement is?
The question was not pathetic nor ridiculous to me. Oh does that mean you choose not to answer?
Your question wasn't a question- There is no god for you. It's just like your following statement- does not mean there is not a god.
Neither were actually a question, even though you put a question mark on it.
You have "hope" and "faith", not knowledge and understanding of your own life. Thus, you gave into the spiritualism of mysticism.
But, nice try. On a side note- how many people, you included, have made the claim that a god exists, and it governs everyone.
Yet, in your two statements above, you are claiming "individual" god. If that was the case, then you've opened the door to an infinite possibility of any number of gods.
So that would make the FSM just as likely as your god.
And, you don't claim there is an infinite number of gods, but claim to know just one exists. This is irrational thinking.
If the probability wasn't non-existent then I would say okay, there is a possibility of a god. But, there isn't a probability of one.
I'll answer any question you want to give me. If I am able to answer it, then I shall. If it is something I've yet to learn, then don't be surprised.
I am ignorant in some things, just not life itself. The topic, I have covered.
I am also smart enough to realize that all questions can be answered, while being wise enough to understand that not all questions will have a need to be answered, and that the answer to certain questions "no need to be answered" is actually the answer.
Hi Cagsil. FYI, respectfully, the LDS faith (me included) believes that God is a person, and Jesus Christ is a resurrected Living, Glorified (by His Father) immortal person, with flesh and Spirit reunited. Only some religions of Christiandom say that God is just a Spirit. We say that He Is a Spirit, AND a corporeal being. Perhaps that would be eaiser for you to consider. Nice to have your (I think) interest. Peace.
So, if you want to, I'll give you a hint. There is no god. The god people claim exists, supposedly exists in another realm, outside of reality. They make claims god is a spirit, but fail to realize that "spiritual" is mysticism and it's not real.
"There is no god" say you Cags.
Saying there is no god ,does not make it so.(Me)
But the collective knowledge available to humankind does. So you are wrong.
The probability doesn't even exist anymore. Get it?
Collective what? lol
I get what you are trying to say ,I just dont agree with you.
Do you get that
I understand that. You choose ignorance over learning. I get it. It was one of my many reasons for writing the hub I wrote on it.
"Is It Chosen Ignorance or Lack of Knowledge"
If you are insulted, don't be. It's not meant as an insult. In some aspects, everyone is ignorant to an extent or on some level.
But, to actively choose ignorance over learning is a conscious choice, which apparently you lack understanding of the consequence, which actually isn't anything new for me, but might be new to you.
The choices you make have rippling effects throughout the world. Every interaction you have with another, sends off ripples, to all who see or hear what you say or do.
That might be too much for you to grasp, and if so, I apologize. The average person has no worldview.
Truth? Conway was yet another indoctrinated religionist. Read his history as well!
"He is now a member of the Anglican Diocese of New Westminster's Refugee Liaison Committee."
Yeah. You would attempt to discredit an unbiased wiki page with more than once source..
And I'm sure Adolf's actions portray his absolute humbleness which Christ taught. He was so into loving even his enemies...
Read Conway's history, then read hitler's.
There is nothing unusual about believers being violent psychopaths is there?
I guess you're going to tell me he didn't murder millions of Jews?
Why would you draw such a conclusion? Are you prepared to use any tactic at all to further your nonsense including calling others who don't believe as you do holocaust deniers??
You really hit bottom here!
Nonsense. I said no such a thing. I never said you denied anything.
I ASKED you. And you side stepped the question, and put words in my mouth.
I'm not using anything. I'm stating a point.
My point is that Hitler obviously does not believe in Christianity.
Christ teaches to love even your enemies. Hitler "hated" the Jews..
Therefore, he was not a believer in the religion you claim he believed in.
What sort of argument is that? A no-show entity who never wrote a word in it's supposed life said so?
The entity you put so much of your life into does not even exist. The christ story is repeated from all the other fanatical nonsense that preceded it.
What a crock!
I did not sidestep anything, you attempted to make me look like a holocaust denier, and that is disgusting.
You obviously did no research on either hitler or the religionist you support.
Are you lost?
The question is not about Christ.
IT IS ABOUT HITLER CLAIMING CHRIST AND BEING RELIGIOUS OR NOT.
It doesn't matter if it's real or not. It's a RELIGION. You're off on a tangent.
The point is Hitler claimed Christianity to use and twist it's already in place power.
Then was attempting to abolish it (THE RELIGION) BECAUSE HE DIDN'T BELIEVE IN IT.
Back on track yet??
He murdered millions of Jews, which is in complete opposition to what Christ taught (in SCRIPTURE) whether anyone claims it real or not.
I didn't attempt to make you look like anything. You're doing a mighty fine job of looking distracted all by yourself..
you were a believer once.. should i think that you are a violent psychopath?
I don't think i want to read the answer to that
What's next is that you spout off all this crap like "mysticism" and "your god" and you sit behind your computer all day telling people God isn't real. WHY DO YOU SPEND SO MUCH TIME DOING THIS????
Why not just let people have their beliefs. There has to be more to it than you're bored and have nothing better to do. You're always so full of hate and anger simply because someone chooses to believe in God.
Actually, I don't spend all day here. I do have the page for the forums open, but I'm not here all day on some days.
Because, there isn't one. Sounds like a good enough reason.
I have no problem with their beliefs to be honest. I have a problem with them making the claim that is true or truth. When, they themselves cannot prove to themselves beyond a shadow of doubt. Doubt is human nature and it cannot be completely erased. Doubt is the failing humans cannot get over. So, that leaves "faith" or "hope" of an afterlife or a god. Nothing more.
There is more too it and it's on a need to know basis and you have no need to know.
Hate and anger? You're not too observant. But, if you says so.
So, this makes you the religion police? Having to run around all day proving to the people that God isn't real.
No god, no fairies, no Santa, no tooth fairy, no living gnomes or goblins.
But if I am so heavenly (or worldly minded) to be of any earthly use -what use am I to anyone.
I doubt they are all athiests. Most are agnostics, not believing until sure. I suppose they come to debates like this because you ask a question of them, so maybe you would be a little disappointed if nobody rose to the bait.
I don't believe in any god, but I do believe in good and bad, which is within us. Believing in a god tends to absolve people from any responsibility,in their minds at least. And there's that old chestnut about people doing wrong deeds all week then confessing on a Sunday. Absolved from crime!
"Believing in a god tends to absolve people from any responsibility..."
Another assumption and false accusation about the way God works and how people are held accountable.
"And there's that old chestnut about people doing wrong deeds all week then confessing on a Sunday. Absolved from crime!"
You actually think people that continue, and continue, and continue in sin have their sins forgiven over and over and over when they prove that they actually don't care???
No, it works based on the man's (or woman's) heart. Do we fail, and do wrong things? Yes.
When are we forgiven? When we ACTUALLY FEEL REMORSEFUL AND THEREBY SINCERELY DON'T WANT TO COMMIT SIN, especially the ones we are particularly guilty of.
Wonderful how we can notice from a simple assumption based on the absence of any true knowledge of what the Bible teaches, how lies and rumors are spread.
God knows who those people who commit a sin consciously thinking they will be forgiven while they enact on what they KNOW is wrong and do it anyway. They have no "remorse".
And until they change within, they will not be forgiven. NOT absolved from any crime. With no exclamation point.
That.. Is what the Bible teaches..
I would not swap my life for the life of any religious loon I have ever seen.
Poor cringing little sheeple, afraid to live their lives, making excuses for being human, lying constantly about "the good book" and what it says, hating all of mankind as sinners, pushing their crazed myth on one and all in the vane hope of convincing themselves when their own mind knows it is a pile of old cobblers, what sort of life is that?
You trying to tell me I'm not happy now?
My life is great. I live in a world in need of love.
Which I intend to give..
Ive never met a christian like earnest describes. I can barely see their faces for the huge smiles that reside thereupon.
i'm the most joyous i've ever been and wish i had have done this from birth!
Ahhh those wasted years....
Vector, Agreed. It was the best day of my life when I accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior, and I have not regretted one day of it.
...at the original post...just cuz....
To quote an atheist in forums, "I feel it is my obligation to spread my beliefs that there is no god to the benefit of mankind." The sad reality is that these same atheists who have used this rhetoric logic fail to realize it sounds awfully similar to their other previous gripes on how they feel people of religion feel obligated to push their beliefs on them. Kind of funny that its okay for them to spread their beliefs, but god forbid if a religious person does. Then again, mankind has always been a hypocritical species. This is what the MAD PROPHET foresees!
...i just liked this one....
"Why do atheists spend so much time here?"
Because those whom you call atheists are in reality evangelists deep in their souls.
Nowdays you can't even get a good laugh out of one of these absurd discussions.
It is also a NewWorldish attitude.
We just want to stop the Nonsense and Conflicts. Don't you want to see peace?
Still - at least we won't convert you at the point of a sword.
"We just want to stop the Nonsense..."
More admissions to shoving ideas down Christian's throats.
Just doing what you asked me to. You are treating others the way you want to be treated - right?
I wonder if any of you have actually read this majik book.
I want in Which version are we going to use? (I am not being funny. We all need the same one, makes for an easier discussion)
lol Well I like the N.I.V but Im open to suggestions.
The King James is a good study bible (but oh so boring )
I got both of those. And about 10-12 others
I think the NKJV is a good one to use. It keeps mostly to a context alot of christians are familiar with, but uses a more modern form of the english language.
I like the ASV and ESV as well. But those are personal choices.
ASV..Ive used it,but dont really know it.
What would you say the style is like?
King James I first looked at when I was in Sunday school...I must have known how to pronounce 2 words
The American Standard Version (ASV) is considered to be the most up to date word for word translation. I like it because it is easy to cross reference. As far as style, I think is it a cross between the KJV and the NIV/NLT. but that is my opinion.
Ok great, Youve inspired me to look out for a ASV version.
Here is a website that I enjoy.
Multiple versions of the bible. And if you select a version and then use the Lexicon. it will give you the Hebrew for the Old Testament and the Greek for the new. Plus it has commentaries and other nice biblical items.
And the New American Standard Bible (NASB) is the ASV
and if you keep studying all of them diligently, you may even be able arrive out the other end a nonbeliever.
Kiwi...here is another site that you might enjoy.
It is 2 courses taught by Yale University covering the Old and New Testament.
And I have a few other places you might like, if you enjoy studying biblical history or religion histories. Let me know if you are interested.
You are assuming. Just because I study religions doesn't mean one thing or the other. You study religions as well, that automatically makes you a believer as well?
And if your comment was a generalization to include anyone. I apologize for taking it to be directed at me
Aww he just be pushin ya buttons -dont worry about it.
It was a general statement, I admit to not being fully awake at the moment. I apologize if you felt it was directed at you personally, and you would! I did put it in a reply to your comment.
Coffee is coming to the rescue!
It is ok. That is why I added the disclaimer. Just in case I misunderstood.
Yep! I thought I should explain myself anyway.
Tis better than reading the daily newspaper,gosh now that news will make ya look for therapy!
You should check out this little set of videos..
I don't know how you'd like it but it's about the differences with the Biblical translations.
The link is only to the first video, but I'm sure you can follow the series.. lol
Oh Brave Knight Knowles.
Thou shalt not be able to stopeth Conflictual Nonsense.
You have the Quixotesque attitude.
So - It is not worth trying to stop it?
OK - Unleash Hell!!!
out of no where a rock hits the windshield of the Popemobile!
"...trying to stop it?"
Thank you for pointing out that you aren't here to state your personal opinion.
But to force your opinion onto us, and attempt to force us to think what you think.
I like discussing the Bible. I've always found it a very interesting book of stories. The fact that I don't believe it's true isn't so important - I don't believe Lord of the Rings is true either but I like to discuss it.
Same. I have been studying religion and psychology for many many years now, yet still enjoy discussing both.
But your posts rarely include anything without a reference to a fairy or santa claus..
What's to discuss if your objective is only to dismiss it as useless?
Rendering something not useful to discuss, is not discussing it.
It is attempting to make it disappear..
i thought i read the word discussion too? and so i cleaned my glasses and the word is still there.
But despite the evidence i still don't believe it.
Agree, the bible is a fascinating book. I tend to find that the non-religous lot have a far better undertanding of the history of the bible and other religions than christians do. I guess there are a few uncomfortable truths about the good book!
I've just been reading about Abraham in ancient texts - is claimed he was an Egyptian pharoah and an astrologer
they were all semetic
There's a fair amount of evidence from the Hebrew bible to suggest that in fact Abraham believed in more than one god, this wasn't unusual at the time of course, but it's claimed obviousy by Jews and Christians that it was he who firsat had the idea of one god.
You just put "suggest" and "in fact" in the same sentence.
Please choose what you intend to convey..
so far, I've gathered that christianity was borrowed from zorosteraism (sp?) & Egyptian mythologies (and judaism which was borrowed from ugaritic texts. Can anyone explain how this all fits together?
And atheism gathered from confusion and doubts.
Nothing confusing or doubtful about not taking myths as reality.
No such thing as an atheist anyway, the word is a religious construct.
If there was such a thing as an atheist you would certainly be one!
You deny every god except yours, so that would make you an atheist by your own values!
The Atheist could not coin a suitable name for them since inception; since they were not sure for themselves.
Wrong again. The word is a religious construct. Do you have some sort of problem with reading and comprehension?
Do you think you would be a muslim if you were born in Arkansas?
I don't think so!
Definitely. You definitely could be born a muslim in Arkansas. John Lind was born in California. That was Jihad Johnnie/Abdul Hamid
Zoroastrianism is a persian belief that believes in a god of good and a god of evil who are at war with each other. Sound familiar?
This is why god was so determined before israel went into exile to express that there is only one God and none beside him. (isaiah 43:11, 44:6, 8; 45:5,6; 45:21, 47:8,10 and more)
But it didnt work, the jews assimilated into the beliefs of their conquerors and hence afterward their faith became mingled with Z. This belief was in full effect when Jesus appeared on the scene.
Demon possession too.
That's interesting. From my observation of christians on hub pages I assumed christianity was forged in the fires of hell. I wonder which take will prove to be correct.
Another personal contradiction. You're building a reputation..
You said Hell does not exist. I can find the statements...
Respectfully. I would like it if you quit attempting to demean me.
And other Christians as well.
You demean yourself each time you fabricate lies to support your beliefs.
Vector, hell is a simply a figure of speech here. I do not attempt to demean you. Christianity, as it is practiced by the masses, attempts to demean everyone else outside of their belief structure. Stop demeaning me and others and I will have no complaints at all about christianity. Fair deal?
I think atheists spend time on here for many of the reasons christians or any other god botherers do. A bit of fun.
Aside from that, I think it's important that there is a point of view added from the side of logic. If a kid was to stumble across these forums then they'd be exposed to all sorts of awful BS from the religious bods without any moderating influence or reason being injected from the non-religious side.
Any debate should have two opposing sides. I leave your forums where you debate specific christian points of view alone, but I'm not letting you spout crap about science or morality without someone to pull you up about it.
"but I'm not letting you spout crap about science or morality without someone to pull you up about it."
I'll give you your science. But the people who intend to tell me not to post scripture, or state my opinion can forget the notion.
You want two opposing sides? Tell that to Mark, who thinks the other side should disappear.
We talk about faith, and I did claim scientific fact as a part of my opinion. But lets face it, things can be manipulated by people quite easily.
What cannot be manipulated, is what my Bible teaches. And therefore I will admittedly stick to it only and the faith I claim in it..
There will not be any question about whether the words are from it or not, as I can quote very easily. And some even attempt to tell me not to quote the Bible. Apologies, not going to happen..
And the Law of Moses, yes is strict, but was not meant for all of time. Otherwise God would have implemented it long before Moses..
"Aside from that, I think it's important that there is a point of view added from the side of logic."
What logic? The parting of the Red Sea? Plagues against Pharaoh? Jesus healing the blind? Jesus healing the sick? Jesus calming a raging storm in an instant? Jesus walking on water? Jesus making bread multiply to feed thousands? Jesus raising the dead? Jesus Christ's resurrection from the dead???
Yes, you would need to force your logic in there to attempt to discredit the Bible. God transcends logic..
That's why Jesus said He is the light of the world. Light transcends everything in the physical realm we know of. Including time itself..
You state your opinion, and I'll state mine.
Q. Why do atheists spend so much time here?
A. It is cheap "anger-management" therapy!
Lol, you're quite a card! I love ya, man. Nice to have you perusing this site Manlypoetry man. But of course, your comment does have a ring of truth to it. I have had the notion before.
who cares who is an atheist who is Christian or otherwise? what are all the religious posts trying to prove? I have always felt it is a private thing, the relationship between yourself and god, if any - I, for one, seldom come to the forums anymore because I'm sick of seeing obviously confrontational religious threads that serve no purpose other than to trumpet Christianity and it's so-called superiority - tired of it.
"You might also want to look into the research conduted last year where scientists created self replicating and mutating RNA strands from mere, non living chemicals."
Please ask me why I'm laughing..
I'm begggging you..
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