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Mike Tyson, The Myth - Flawed Boxer and Overrated Champion

Updated on June 3, 2012

The Synopsis

Mike Tyson made some noise in his time, both in and out of the ring. In the ring much of it did not "ring true" (no pun intended) and this will be the focus of my commentary. I will not delve into the man's personal life, except to say that his legacy in this regard is grossly disdainful and far from the "sweet music" we heard delivered by other Champions, and I refer of course to Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali as incontrovertible American Icons. I will stick to the technical boxing facts, staying on course here to bear direct light on the man's professional skills and abilities along with his pugilistic reputation, often regarded, mistakenly so in my opinion, as among the "Best of All Time" and having the capacity to annihilate any Heavyweight in history on a given day.

I am the quintessential skeptic of Mr. Tyson's boxing efficiencies. I gravitated to sports at an early age and knew well the likes of Sandy Koufax, Bill Russell, Bobby Hull, Yury Vlasov (1960 Rome Olympics) and Cassius Clay (1960 Rome Olympics) before my contemporaries where even aware they were in possession of a penis bone. So, not bagging here, I know athletic genius when I see it. I was the only kid in my grade school who wanted Clay to win (and knew he would do so) vs. Liston in 1964. He has been my hero since the age of 7 when I saw him in the Rome Olympics. I draw inspiration from him on a daily basis still. I can say with a resounding certainty that "Kid Dynamite" a.k.a., "Iron Mike" Tyson is no genius.

The Appeal

Tyson's ferocious fighting style created an air of invincibility. He wore black...shoes, sox and trunks, and stared down those adversaries who felt he functioned without civility. He moved straight ahead with no resistance and KO'ed opponents with either hand by uppercut, cross or hook, often within one or two rounds. The public's fascination with him can be readily seen on You Tube (do a search on Tyson vs. Ali), or for that matter, look-up "Top Ten Greatest Boxers of All Time" (The Ultimate List) right here on Hub Pages (Tyson at #5 for Christ's sake, http://druhepkins.hubpages.com/hub/Top-Ten-Greatest-Boxers-of-All-Time#comment-8355730). Here you will find that his enamored supporters willing show their ignorance with statements pointing to Tyson's "invincibility" and possessing the "psychological persona" to defeat any man on the planet, past or present.

The Biggest Upset in the History of Boxing

In Tokyo on January 11th, 1990 Mr. Tyson was KNOCKED-OUT and lost his Championship at the ripe old age of 23 to an unknown by the name of "Buster" Douglas who was a 45-1 underdog. The fight is rightfully regarded as "The Biggest Upset in the History of Boxing." When queried about this inexplicable loss his supports rage that he was overweight (?only 2 lbs. heavier than when he won the Championship?), he didn't train for the fight (?a Champion?), that he was at a loss because he was fighting without his former "corner men" for the first time (? OMG, really ?) and that he was "past his prime" (??? at 23 yrs. old ???). It is unfounded excuse after unfounded excuse from his supporters, all totally uninformed and invented gibberish. He was never the same boxer after this fight; "invincibility" and "psychological persona" gone. Myth exposed.

The Flaw

Tyson was, by any measure of heavyweight standards, a diminutive slugger; barely 5'10" tall and with a reach of only 71 inches. Not helping matters any, he was a one dimensional fighter in style. He worked flat footed, and his only tactic was to move in on his opponent straight ahead with a lunge and use his best attempt to batter the foe into submission. Inadequate "tactics and strategies"...he walked directly into punches.

The Counter Strategies

"Buster" Douglas worked behind a stiff left jab and moderate amount of footwork. This led to combinations and right hand leads. When Tyson lunged in with his traditional "arsenal" the taller and stronger boxer simply tied him up, smothering the dwarfish boxer and thus limiting him to one punch retaliations. These counter strategies were used by Holyfield, Lewis and Danny Williams who all had KO's over Tyson.

The Question Marks

1.) His stamina and ability to deliver the "knock out punch" after the first few rounds is a major question mark. 2.) Physical strength as well was called into question when going into the "Championship Rounds" (those fights past 10 rounds). 3.) His jaw, the ability to take a punch, was regarded as "minimal." 4.) As a result of taking a left jab, his eyes would regularly grow in size to that of a large egg, resulting in him becoming a "one eyed boxer." 5.) Courage; take a look at Tyson vs. Holyfield II. 6.) The caliber of his competition; most all were regarded as true "tomato cans."

The Intangible Strengths

Foremost in the character traits of Champions is that they are in possession of "intangible strengths," i.e., "mental abilities" and having the capacity to deliver on "tactics and strategies"...and most noteworthy of all...HAVING THE ABILITY TO OVERCOME ADVERSITY!!! In this world Muhammad Ali was without an equal, bar none. These were his greatest weapons, they are the strongest competitive advantage possible. Opponents have no counter strategy to defend against them. Tyson was one dimensional, no strategy, lacking in mental ability and courage, and lastly, certainly without a trace of strength to overcoming adversity.

The Truth

Tyson was not the only fighter capable of delivering a knock out blow. I submit the fight records of at least 3 superior Champions whose KO records (before they faced Ali) stand as proof and testament of my position.

Sonny Liston (35-0 with 27 by KO)

George Foreman (40-0 with 37 by KO)

Joe Frazier (30-1 with 26 by KO)

These men were a combined 105-1 with 90 by KO who fought one another, or Ali, and were all HW Champions during the "Golden Era of Boxing."

The Greatest of All Time

There can be only one...he is Muhammad ("Worthy of All Praises") Ali (Most High"). He defeated, by KO I might add, all of the above and was in charge of all men from start to finish. It is a "sports sacrilege" to have Tyson anywhere near Ali on a list of "Greatest Boxers." At his best, in his prime, Tyson would look like a single engine open cock-pit crop duster vs. an Ali who was a Northrup B-2 Stealth Jet Fighter.

The Summation

In just sticking to the technical boxing facts, the Myth is exposed and I submit that against any of the following (there are tons more) four Champions, i.e., Ali, Liston, Frazier and Foreman that Tyson goes from "Kid Dynamite" to "Boy Craps His Pants."

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    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 18 months ago from Chicago

      Not knowing that Muhammad Ali was as fierce as a lion, that he took a punch better than anyone and had immeasurable Intangible Strengths (no doubt that you cannot even name/mention 2) leads me to believe you are...

      1.) A twelve year old

      2.) from across the pond (Ireland precisely)

      3.) you believe in wearing green and Leprchans

      4.) and, yes, that you regularly kiss the Blarney Stone

      I have studied the life of Ali in depth. Fyi...you are challenging someone who is universally magnificent...not a good character trait of yours to lead your life by.

    • profile image

      Conor Mcgregor 18 months ago

      He was a "little man" by todays standards, your failure to recognise this and the last "small man" to be successful was Evander Holyfield who was a mere 6ft 2" almost a foot shorter than Fury. You may not like it, it may ruin your romantic notions as to what sport is, but it's how it is, the sweet Science is just that. Sorry to burst your bubble.

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 18 months ago from Chicago

      Fury and Klitschko (no, I guess you didn't see the two clods fight one another)...more athleticism in an maturer women's figure skating contest.

      Referring to Ali as a "little man" tells me all I need to know about about your boxing and overall sports acumen.

      You are on "Cloud Nine and a Million Miles Away From REALITY."

      -The Temptations

    • profile image

      Conor Mcgregor 18 months ago

      You don't have to be great fighter if your reach is longer than the other guys. Fury's arms are probably longer than Ali's legs a stiff jab means a good big man will always beat a good little man. The heavyweights of the past are little men. You may not like it but its true.

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 18 months ago from Chicago

      WIN OR DIE...

      In this order...

      1.) Muhammad Ali

      2.) Secretariat

      3.) Sandy Koufax

      Taking Babe Ruth in a Must Win/Live or Die Game is a viable 4th choice.

      Klitschko or Fury would lead your Death March.

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 18 months ago from Chicago

      @CM...

      What sports are you watching??? Speed and agility = athleticism, ...ask any pundit, manager or trainer of any sport WHAT QUALITIES HE WOULD CHOOSE IF HE HAD TO WIN OR DIE (ONE EVENT).

      A super-heavyweight champion you say, a contemporary Klitschko???

      Did you not witness the TWO CLODS in action recently??? One word description here...PATHETIC.

      Ali would have these clods gasping for air with their hands down to their knees by Round 3. Thinking otherwise has you listening to a Symphony of Delusion.

      Think b/4 you speak Mcgregor!!!

    • profile image

      Conor Mcgregor 18 months ago

      Tyson and Holyfield were the last Heavyweights of the old Heavyweight division, the guys from then on, Lewis, Klitschko and Klitschko and now Tyson Fury are so much bigger, they are like another wright division. Ali simply is not big enough or strong enough to compete with twenty first century heavyweights. To say otherwise is like saying boxing has never progressed in terms of nutrition and conditioning and peoples diets aren't better and the boxers aren't naturally much bigger.

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 18 months ago from Chicago

      @Papi Sorrels...

      Can I use some of your comment as part of my Epitaph???

      You and I may not be in the "Circle of Greatness," but we have the clear vision of who is.

      "Champions have something deep inside them. A vision, a dream a desire. They must have the skill and the will...but the will must be greater than the skill."

      -Muhammad Ali

    • Papi Sorrels profile image

      Papi Sorrels 19 months ago

      Royal (the author) is SPOT, DEADLY, ON!

      Some of the desperate junk you're tossing back at him should be embarrassing you!

      A: Tyson was a 1D fighter. End of story.

      B: He never beat anyone that mattered. NEVER

      C: He never got even w/ anyone he lost to like countless others did

      D: And to compare him to Ali???!! Are you ________ing kidding me right now? He couldn't beat Douglass at 23 how in the world would THAT young and in his prime Tyson had a PRAYER against the Louisville Slugger. Tyson probably couldn't handle James Braddock let alone Ali!

      E: He ducked everybody that would have mauled him. And the ones he did "fight" ( If you call BITING ears fighting)? CA-REEEEEAAAMED the little train that couldn't.

      I'll stop there.

      He was "unstoppable" against tomato can smokers, but had no chance against true contenders. Michael STINKS is hands down the OTHER most overrated champ. He didn't fight Holyfield, or Lewis, for good reason.

      Royal! You're not a Tyson hater, you're a boxing aficionado and pragmatist. They're not ready for someone like you buddy. Keep writing and keep driving the followers of a 2nd rate fake crazy.

    • profile image

      Brandon 21 months ago

      Why the Pete Rose hate lol?

    • profile image

      Conor Mcgregor 22 months ago

      Tyson was overrated but you are underselling him. He had flaws but great lateral movement. As for Lewis, he beat anyone who beat him and he beat Klitschko. Ali would have been destroyed by him.

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 23 months ago from Chicago

      Finally, some truly bright responses from top-flight boxing fanatics...and here's a lil ' somtin more for the Tyson folks...

      TYSON WAS KOed MORE TIMES THAN ANY OTHER CHAMPION IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT!!!

    • profile image

      Ig88 2 years ago

      Lewis's KO losses to McCall and Rahman respectively easily prevents him from being considered 'all-time-great' material. Not dissing on Lennox, in his prime he's likely better than any '90s heavyweight - prime Evander (if only due to weight advantage), Bowe, and '90/'91 Tyson included - but putting he and Ali in same sentence is insulting to The Greatest who, btw, never did get KOed ever. Lennox could beat '78 (vs Leon Spinks) Ali and that's about it; and how much does that possibly say?

    • profile image

      Dante 2 years ago

      Great article. It disgusts me when people put tyson amongst the all time great heavyweights like ali, lewis, louis,foreman,frazier, holyfield etc. Tyson was an overrated boxer who brought excitement back to the american heavyweight division after ali retired. Tyson knocked out bums and was knocked out by bums. He didn't even avenge his losses like all historically great fighters do. Anytime he faced truly great fighters like lewis and holyfield he lost. Most tyson fans are so deluded that they compare him to ali, lewis, joe louis etc. Anyways he was an exciting boxer with power and speed. But definitely not an all time great!

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 2 years ago from Chicago

      final note Tom...

      Liston, Frazier and Foreman were a combined 102 wins (90 by KO) and 2 losses before met and lost to Ali. All were HW champions. Ali was in charge of all men and K'ed all three.

      He's all by himself in the world of sports Tom. The best that ever drew oxygen. Babe Ruth was his runner-up. They changed the sport they played forevermore.

      Ali had far too much handspeed and accuracy, Lewis would be sucking for air by round 4. Say goodnight Mr. Lewis, lights out.

    • profile image

      Tom 2 years ago

      Would of loved to see Ali vs lewis. I think lewis would handle him though, his mass and skill would be too much I believe , but then again maybe Ali on points. Who knows? Both great, but Ali greater (not better) with his fights and wars he went to places lewis didn't , but then again I cant see lewis beating joe with ease, just the size plus the skill. Ali would of done better agsinst Wlad, and if he juiced like they did lol he'd finally have a knock out punch.One thing I'd say to all the Tyson fans , go and watch everyone one of his fights. There all on youtube. I did. Just to ensure I wasn't wrong, seriously these guys are weak, in fact most dont have wiki pages and jobs! Its just insane to think mike could be beat anyone after tillis and greene.

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 2 years ago from Chicago

      For the most part, we think alike. Just a word of caution in comparing ANYONE to The Great Man...we never saw "the very best Ali" due to his assassination, the 3 1/2 year exile were his prime athletic years.

      Another tidbit on "Boy who Craps His Pants"...he was KO'ed more than any other Champion.

    • profile image

      Tom 2 years ago

      Great writing. I'm sick of Tyson fan boys in their blind idiocy. Fan boys when was Mikes peak ? Was it was he got bust up by tillis an ali wannabe or greene? Lol. Tyson was good and exciting but was never in the big boys league. Everytine he stepped up to elite he got exposed. Lewis and ali are the best . Ali you can say was the greatest in a way, but i think lewis would of handled him thats just how sport goes, it advances. One thing I'm sure of though the golden gen didn't juice. Ali would of beaten tyson , tyson was on steroids we know this . Now imagine a juiced up Ali.

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 3 years ago from Chicago

      What the hell are you talking about??? Bring on whatever you can muster-up in that deranged, limited and and fragile mind you possess. Can't you "friggin" read???

      The Magnificent Man is in the Circle of Greatness. Read my other HUB dumbass..."Muhammad Ali- "The Facts on his Assassination." There you will find the cure for your complete exasperating ignorance.

      I pity your offspring. Take the Tonic and read or it's a certainty you will soon be committed. OMG!!!

    • profile image

      carl green 3 years ago

      I.m coming back here soon with a huge writeup about the hugely overrated ali. As spoken by the very knowlegable steven lott......watch this space...........

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 3 years ago from Chicago

      Tokyo, 1990 - Godzilla was found to be only just painted green...Myth exposed. Tyson never, not once, got up off the canvas to "settle accounts" with his opponent. Youngest to win the title...youngest to lose it.

      "My career was over in 1990."

      - Mike Tyson

      He was knocked out, I SAY KNOCKED OUT NO FEWER THAN SIX (SIETE, VI, 6) times. Any HW Champ you know who has even a remotely similar statistic...I DIDN'T THINK SO.

      Tyson, was a product of "American Dream Makers"...his business management team who chose each and every opponent to get to the title: It's Called the Tyson Manifesto.

      HE WAS ONE DIMENSIONAL AND LACKING IN BOXING 101 ESSENTIALS...A DUNCE IN AND OUT OF THE RING.

    • profile image

      George 3 years ago

      You are so wrong ! " one dimensional fighter in style. He worked flat footed, and his only tactic was to move in on his opponent straight ahead with" .. One dimensional or not, this WORKED ! That's how he used to KO his opponents. You make statements and call them facts. THEY ARE NOT FACTS ! That's just your opinion. You say - Tyson's chin was considered as "minimal". You want us to believe that this is a fact, when in fact it is a lie. Who decided how strong is his jaw ? Is there some unified tests, some testing machine which measures boxer's resistance to a punch ? Who is in a position to say definitely that his jaw was weak ? Which expert ? Who said so ? Name them ! If you are the only expert who says this, than you are just a hater, blinded with hate. Yes, he was knocked out during his career, but George Foreman was knocked out by feather fist Ali, Ali was Knocked down also, are their chins also "minimal" ?

      You never mentioned Tyson's head movement and why ? Cause you could not find a flaw in it. When Tyson was in his prime, his head movement was brilliant. You just chose to be quiet about it. You never mentioned his punching power. All the world agrees that Tyson's power was one of the most devastating in history. On par with Foreman and Shavers . You are quiet about it also. That all makes clear that you are biased and a hater. Tyson beat two champs when he was a kid ! Yes they were past their prime, but they could still box and box very well. If you are 40 years old and you were once a phenomenal boxer you can still box very well in your 40 s. George Foreman is a clear proof for that, when he became a champ second time at the age 45. There is no boxer in boxing history who knocked out heavyweight professional boxers so quickly. You won't name even one ! Tyson could do that, cause he was a phenomenon. That's it. Bums or not, they all were professional heavyweight boxers, trained athletes of the highest class. Any of that guys, who's been knocked out by Tyson in first rounds, could kill a guy like me and you with only one punch. YOu have to respect that! Is Marvis Frazier a bum ? Why ? guy has only two loses out of 21, 8 knock outs. He lost only to Tyson and Holmes. Donovan Ruddock..why is he a bum ? Just cause he could not beat Tyson ? Frank Bruno, a monster. Big, strong guy with a good reach and heavy punch, won 40 fights out of 45 and 38 of them with KO, WBC heavyweight champion, yet knocked out by Tyson twice. Andrew Golota was Knocked out by Tyson, but than they found out Tyson smoked Marijuana and changed win to NC. Very funny. Marijuana does not make you better in boxing. All these guys were not bums, they were good professional athletes, but eaten for lunch by Kid dynamite. Now, I say these are real facts and according to them Mike is one of the greatest ever. He lost some fights at the and of his career, there are lots of great boxers who did the same. That proves nothing, everybody gets older and becomes weaker. He lost 3 years, best years in a prison, that also made him weaker, but in his prime he would eat alive just any one. If you can't understand this, well, it's your problem, not Mike's, cause unfortunately for you he is already a Legend and you will never touch him with your articles.

    • profile image

      jdog 3 years ago

      Tyson and jerry quarry would be nice, god bless him and god bless this forum for freedom of speech, that's what's we do , bullshit about shit that don't really matter

    • profile image

      jdog 3 years ago

      In my opinion mike Tysons best fight was when he fought botha, botha was outboxing and out slugging him soundly. Tyson was able to sustain and showed great durability and knocked botha out. When Tyson fought kevin Mcbride, and McBride showed up in great shape , Tyson just seemed to get disappointed when he he hit McBride and McBride was laughing.

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 3 years ago from Chicago

      Never thought of that jdog, but it certainlt explains why most of time during his in-fighting he was led around by his opponent like he had a ring in his nose. Good point.

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      jdog 3 years ago

      Tyson couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag, that little man had no punch, no heart, every time he got tagged he got dropped. Next summation-- you can't fight with chicken legs, when deontay wilder gets into a fight with any good puncher he will be finished. jeez, the the dudes legs look like strings

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 3 years ago from Chicago

      reviveheavyweight,

      Awesome stuff, I couldn't wait to get on to your next sentence or point. Mike's career and resume broken down in a way even the common man (such as myself) could easily grasp.

      You are right-on for all the issues you brought up, in particular the design and fabrication by Tyson's management team...how interesting that was for me. Your description of their input can be called the Tyson Manifesto...the step by step process of American Dreamakers hard at work on our psychye,and those of his adversaries as well; though you appropriately give Cus his rightful credits, and when Tyson manifested Cus' will he was within reach of the Greats, barring Joe Louis, Jack Jackson (what a Real Man and Boxer this guywas) and Ali.

      Your writing style is very compelling...I am going to read over again all you points, then head directly to your hub Pages profile.

      It is my good fortune to have your association. I have some other Hubs on Tyson and Ali which I , frankly, would love to have you critique.

      Highest regards,

      -R.W.

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      reviveheavyweight 3 years ago

      Correction from my above post although I'm sure you can figure - I meant to say that Tyson after his fight with Holmes said he would NOT have beaten him in his prime.

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      reviveheavyweight 3 years ago

      Royal, I mostly agree with your assessment on '80s/'prime' Mike Tyson, but I think there should be SOME allowance of credit given to his skills if however (as you and many experts state) not exactly multi-dimensional. Always keeping his head moving/the peek-a-boo technique implemented by Cus, and by all means, the ferocious KNOCK-OUT power of either his right OR left at any given moment. Though not as hard a hitter as, say, Liston/Foreman/Shavers/Weaver, I don't feel that any all-time-great - Ali included - would wish to feel the full brunt of that even if Ali himself and many other all-time-greats would have been able to withstand such a blow without hitting the canvas, recovering, and then going on to eventually defeat Tyson or even knock him out which certainly would've been the case with Ali be it the '64 (Clay) version or the mid-'70s version (Zaire, Manilla, or even as late as '77 before bottoming-out for the Leon Spinks bouts a year later). End of day, more so than those skills/knockout-punching-power mentioned, '80s Tyson was mostly a promotional man-made 'aura' of invincibility with management perfectly setting up the RIGHT line of 20 tomato cans for he to knockout 1st Round hence appearing God-like. And once the effects of the late-Cus wore off shortly after the Spinks fight, bad habits developing such as ignoring the body (head-hunting) and no more head-movement...forget it!

      Michael Spinks, before his fight with him, admitted publicly that he was scared. He WASN'T being modest, and it obviously showed in the ring that night - Tyson's entrance dressed in black trunks and shoes, no robe, the sound of raw 'noise' being the music that played; again, the 'aura'. Even Larry Holmes was fooled/taken-in by this 'mystique' in his fight against him months earlier. If not scared (I wouldn't say he was), he at least fought rather cautiously the first three rounds only to finally attack (go down in a blaze) when it was too late/Tyson having already hurt him. For what it's worth, had they fought in '91 instead (invincibility cloak already lifted), Holmes strategizes better and goes the distance and most likely doesn't get knocked down once - as remarkably was the case his entire '90s comeback. As for Spinks? Had he went into his fight vs Tyson with a smart, fearless boxing approach (as the case vs Dwight Braxton) but, yes, still careful enough (fully respecting Mike's punching power), not saying Spinks actually wins or averts a knockdown or KO in the later-rounds, but he at least avoids sheer embarrassment. '91 seconds' a total injustice for a great boxer's career to end in that way. AGAIN with the 'aura' Tyson's management strategically created for him.

      Had Tyson KO'ed Douglas early in Tokyo, hence elongating his aura, I don't think Evander the following June gets 'taken in' by it at all. He flat-out was a true Warrior! Although I feel Evander still needed his fights vs Cooper, Foreman (just as much a remarkable performance for HIM as was for his 41-year-old opponent) and Holmes to become fully 'initiated' into the Heavyweight division, I think in all likelihood he knocks out Tyson in the same way he would end up doing so 6 years later - withstanding Mike's early assault and then owning him as the rounds wore on until going in for the kill. All this and, let's face it, Mike would not have taken Evander lightly being all the pre-fight buzz and legitimate hype over him perhaps "being the ONE" who could possibly be able to beat him.

      Another one who I think KO's Tyson at around this very time is 40-something George Foreman. It's pretty easy to look it up online as to why there never WAS a Tyson/Foreman fight in the early-'90s. It's well-enough documented that Tyson actually DUCKED Big George! In addition to my limited defense of Tyson early in this post, another thing that should be said about him is that he WAS a student of the ring and boxing history! Cus indeed gave him proper education of the all-time-greats, both would watch old films of their fights. Tyson respected the Greats as well. He always said Ali would have whooped him, and upon KO-ing Holmes in '88, he was quick to say post-fight that he would have beaten a prime-Larry. As for Foreman, apparently TOO MUCH respect! According to something I've read elsewhere in regards to this, when going over Foreman with his young apprentice, and assuming the two would never fight anyway (no anticipation of a late-'80s comeback), Cus told Tyson that a fighter as himself would have not done well vs Big George, comparing such a matchup between the two as when Foreman railed Frasier 6 times within 2 rounds. Apparently that stayed engrained in Tyson even in lieu of the comeback that Foreman, indeed, ended up making. Tyson saw through Foreman's 'happy-go-lucky' 'old-man' comedy shtick. He knew he still had his power, granite chin, and that he had nothing at all to gain by fighting Foreman; and when King tried getting it going in '90/'91, Tyson yelled back something along the lines of "YOU fight him if you want him so much!" Had that fight actually ever took place at that time, being that Tyson would have gone head-on right into Big George, it wouldn't have been pretty. Tyson, I think rocks Big George pretty well in the 1st Round (as Cooney also did in their '90 bout), but George rocks him as well, and TO THE CANVAS! Tyson does get up, but only to get knocked down again that very round and that would about do it. Tyson was smart to dodge that fight for his post-Douglas legacy would have suffered an even greater blow. Not dissing Tyson, but it simply would NOT have been a match for him unless he would do what Morrison did against Big George in '93 and try to keep away from him/out-point him which I still don't think would have fell into Tyson's favor; he would have so been out-of-his-element and Big George simply ends up winning anyway be it a decision or finally catching him with a late KO.

      End of day, Tyson was a shooting star in the '80s. Not best-of-all-time nor IN that convo, but definitely great though beatable during that short period. And I don't leave out the possibility of he knocking down (though not actually beating) ANY of the Greats, INCLUDING Ali. Decent-enough chance he does manage to connect and knock down one of the Alis I previously mentioned ('64 Clay or mid-'70s version), but in EACH case, both get right up off the canvas (in LESS THAN 4 seconds, mind you) and...well, you know the rest!

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 3 years ago from Chicago

      How right you are Big dickie!!! Tyson did not have either the courage or the ability to overcome adversity vs. Marciano...unsustainable Intangible Strengths makes Rocky an overwhelming Victor!!!

      like I advised one other comment or, If Tyson saw Marciano coming at him with his nose split in half and blood coming from God Knows Where, then Tyson would do one of three things

      Feint

      Run

      Or crap his pants

      thankfully, someone who understands the difference between Great and Mediocre.

      You are welcome here any time B. D.

      my Best to you!!!

      You also have the right version L. c....ditto on the Dempsy fight...a FIASCO!!!

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      Lil cheezie 3 years ago

      Lol. Can you imagine jack Dempsey vs tyson,? Tyson would be on awe of his ferocity, who would win?

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      Big dickie 3 years ago

      Tyson would have knocked down Marciano then piss himself when the rock cones back with a vengeance

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 3 years ago from Chicago

      I am going to be rather hard on you also.

      I graded-out your comment as an "F," as in failed to make a valid point, but that's better than what I gave carl green...he had his Certificate of Intelligence REVOKED.

      My essay provided 1,133 words related to Technical Boxing Facts (TBF's)...and you pull Pinklon Thomas out of your ass. He couldn't punch his way through a wet paper bag with his right hand, that's why he very rarely ever threw one. P.K. was a joke, but typical of Mike's competion. Once a contender vs. Tyson he went 1 win and 5 losses in his next 6. Smith was 5 wins and 4 losses going in to the Tyson fight. Is this the best you got Joe R.???

      How about doing some homework before you pop-off. TBF's, ya know???

      How well would Mike have done against the fierce Joe Frazier...4 losses, 2 to Ali and 2 to Foreman. Sure he got bounced around by Big George, down 6 times, but got up 5 times!!! Tell me how many times Mr. Tyson got up off the canvas. And oh,...by the way, Joe was the winner in the "Fight of the Century." This is a TBF you see.

      And vs. Foreman at 6'4" and 79 inch reach. He was 40-0 with 37 KO's before he went down to Ali. He'd smother up your little guy with Mr. Tyson's one punch retaliations. This is a TBF you see.

      And vs. the "Great Man"...6'3 1/2" and an 80 inch reach. Sure let Mike walk into that Man's arsenal. This is a TBF you see.

      Tyson "would have done very well against any HW in History???" Surely you jest Joe R.

      I don't mind you coming around to share your vast ???KNOWLEDGE??? but leave a comment that holds water, will ya??? I REALLY DON'T HAVE TIME FOR IDLE "CHIT-CHAT."

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      carl green 3 years ago

      Your wasting your time joe, he has a pathalogical hatred for tyson....

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      Joe Rodriguez 3 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      You are being rather hard on Tyson. During his prime he would have done very well against any HW in history. That was only for a few short years. However, he was a 'street animal'. He didn't have the warrior mentality, and he didn't have the mindset of a fighter. He was a boxing bully. However, most of the heavyweights that he beat during his prime were good solid fighters. Guys like Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tubbs, Tony Tucker, James Smith, etc. These weren't bums. They were all good fighters, not great, but good.

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      Royal Waldorf 3 years ago from Chicago

      Don't just read C.G.,...COMREHEND..

      Mike Tyson - Boxing's Biggest Stiff or American Icon

      https://hubpages.com/sports/Taking-Issue-with-Mike...

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      Royal Waldorf 3 years ago from Chicago

      The "You are a Tyson Hater" has already been addressed in a comment (directed at you) above. So, you want me to continue with you're argument which doesn't hold water...NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!

      I will say this much...

      1.) I create Hubs to express my position on a topic, as I have command of the Written Word and in getting my point across in more than just a 25 words explanation (an intellectual achievement). You should try it!

      2.) I create Hubs to inform the uninformed, and therefore, those so much like yourself, become enlightened and stop being ignorant.

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      carl green 3 years ago

      Your a strange man...I mean, why did you create this blog in the first place???, why not just create an online discussion called...was ali underrated? ???? , I think you love to hate tyson...cmom get out the closet......

    • Royal Waldorf profile image
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      Royal Waldorf 3 years ago from Chicago

      What really matters is what goes on his epitaph...and it is certainly not going to be FASCINATING.

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      carl green 3 years ago

      He was underrated and over rated in equal measure..that's what makes him so fascinating to a lot of people.

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      Royal Waldorf 4 years ago from Chicago

      @ Johnson

      Ali is the Greatest ever...and here's why...

      read "The Assassination of Muhammad Ali." Become enlightened~!!!

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      Royal Waldorf 4 years ago from Chicago

      @ ET

      You're right on, Tyson was one dimensional, and that's a FLAW in anybody's book. He walked directly into punches, a no-no in Boxing 101.

      If that's how you see the "sweet science" then I guess he was "GREAT." I have a different opinion, in fact...I wrote the BOOK on Tyson and you should bone up on why he is Boxing's Biggest Stiff. It's just my opinion, but it's a published one.

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      Johnson 4 years ago

      Yes, Tyson lost some fights. Was he supposed to be champion forever? He defended it 9 times. No one in that era to now can even compare. Weak chin? He took a beating from Buster Douglas and Holyfield. He never got knocked down by one single blow until way after his prime.

      A fighter can only go so long before he loses motivation. What more did he have to accomplish after defending the belt 9 times and being the youngest champion? Also, he went to jail for 3 years.

      I think he just stop caring. He stopped bobbing and weaving, stopped throwing combinations. He got lazy and lacked the heart.

      The stats of the older greats you mention were from a different time. Bobby Hull wouldn't be shit today. He would never get 50 goals in today's league.

      Even if there was a boxer who was obviously greater than Ali in every way, there will always be people who will say Ali is the greatest ever.

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      ET 4 years ago

      Well you obviously prefer a certain style, some prefer another. Mike brought an attitude with his style that has left boxing and has contributed to the decline in boxing. Mike didn't come out to dance and feel you out in the first round, he came to KO your but right from the get go...and was doing it. This style is great and is rarely employed because most do not want to go for it and let it all hang out. I would rather watch fighters go into the ring with the objective to Knock You Out...the nwith the idea to dance around, stall or try to collect as many punch points as possible. Mike's style was GREAT whether you prefer it or not.

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      name is not the game 4 years ago

      your one sided as well , Ali was nothing much too . Plenty of guys who wold have eaten him up .

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      Royal Waldorf 4 years ago from Chicago

      You are completely mad, aren't you. Are you on the same meds as Mr. Tyson? That's below the belt, sorry.

      Henry was worthy. Who in the hell ever KO'ed Muhammad (Worthy of All Praises) Ali (Most High).

      None of your comments were blocked; unthinkle, I haen't had this much fun since 1964...when I predicted Ali (7-1 underdog) over Liston.

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      carl green 4 years ago

      you blocked my previous comment?, why?, tyson champion at 20, 9 successful defences , 7 by KO,oh here's a TBF for you to chew on, its not tyson,s fault he was top dog in a time when the heavyweight league was not the strongest we,ve ever seen, but he did wat he had to do , he cleaned up the division, unifyed the championship , something mr ali never accomplished , oh and what about that HUGE thorn in ALI,S side by the name of ken norten, remind me sir how many times did ali loose?????????????????, wat was that mediocre european heavyweight from london who barely weighed 190 pounds who knocked ali flat on his ass,(not a 5 punch combo that douglas threw at tyson to put him away...............),tyson a very tough dog indeed....

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      Royal Waldorf 4 years ago from Chicago

      As I expected, an ancient Mayan manuscript...do you read hyrogliphics too??? And throw confetti at the same time???

      So, Rock lost it, but won it...now that's quite entertaining!

      Please reread and assimilate the "Intangible Strengths" paragraph. Tyson was a bully, w/o sustainable "IS's." He was ok until he caught a straight left jab and some one with courage.

      Now, so far as being ignorant let's just stick to the "Technical Boxing Facts" (TBF's). NEVER GOT UP OFF THE CANVAS, NOT ONCE, to settle accounts. Bowie, Gollata and also those other "Champions"...true tomato cans and more confetti from you. TBF's win the day here. Try giving me one of substance. An don't even mention the 9 second KO in the Junior Olympics. I'm sending the "Confetti Police" to put you under survellaince. C'mon Brit, do your homework.

      BTW..Liston was rated #15 in Ring Magazines 100 Greatest Punchers." Your guy was #16.

      True, Rock was a bit underweight for Tyson...but you can't leave out the IS's, which go to Marciano in a big way.

      TBF"s only, PLEEEAAASEEE.

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      carl green 4 years ago

      i heard a story that joe louis and joe walcot,s combined age was somewere in the region of 178 years when mr marciano fought them, lol, AND walcot was winning the fight very comfortably, until marciano got lucky with his suzie cue.......tyson was a full 2 stone heavier than the rock, he,d of knocked him out in 3 rounds, ideal opponent for tyson, very similar hight, he just plods forward throwing hooks , tyson would of seriously hurt him.

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      carl green 4 years ago

      lol, u got issues bro, the rock lost his 1st pro fight but the judges gave it to him, i,m interested that you didn't mention the quitter sonny liston during your ramble, i,ll take it that you agree he was a quitter and MASSIVELY overrated, tyson tried his best to get up from the douglas onslaught, he got up in the 1st holyfield fight and he even managed to finish that fight on his feet, he was a brave fighter, hey wat about my bowe, gollota point of view, you never answer all my arguments, your like liston my friend, your overrated lol,like when you said tyson was the youngest to ever loose the title, you were to ignorant to mention he was the youngest to win it and the youngest to unify the title as well, your unwavering unappreciation of the great tyson is very alarming.........

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      Royal Waldorf 4 years ago from Chicago

      I cannot believe I am going to have this dialogue...49 Wins (43 knockouts, 6 decisions), 0 Losses, 0 Draws. 1st pro fight was a win, 1–0 Lee Epperson KO 3 17/03/1948 Valley Arena, Holyoke, Massachusetts, United States Pro debut for Marciano who used name Rocky Mack. Are you getting your facts from an anciant Mayan manuscript???

      Frazier was 32-4-1. The four lossess were to Foreman (2) and Ali (2)...and you want to throw insults at a fighter who was the winner in "The Fight of the Century."

      Yes, Ali was hit so hard his head snapped sideways, his knees buckled and he landed flat on his back with his feet up in the air...UP BEFORE THE COUNT OF 4!!!

      And I'll leave you with this last little tidbit on Mr. Tyson...he never, not once, got up of the canvas to "settle accounts" with an opponent.

      You could go on forever doing what?...throwing confetti around???

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      carl green 4 years ago

      one final point i,d like to make, sonny liston was a coward, he quit on his stool in the 1st clay fight,(hardly a sign of greatness imo), then he took a dive in the rematch, extremely overrated fighter, now onto mr frazier, 31 wins? , 4 losses? , is that it?, hardley legendary status is it........?, he got bounced around like a bascket ball for 2 rounds by foreman, very mediocre at best,hower, he did manage to knock mr ali the greatest clean off his feet...so you see my point........i could go on forever, riddick bowe was holyfields bogeyman, but andrew gollota gave bowe 2 good hidings in there match ups, BUT what did mr tyson do to gollota?, yup, he owned his ass on a plate, bonecrusher smith was an extremely strong human being, hense the reason why he was able to hold onto tyson like he was his boyfriend for 12 rounds and totally spoil the fight, it takes 2 to tango....L8tr.

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      carl green 4 years ago

      its easy to pour scorn on a greek trajedy, oh by the way, if you do your homework, you,ll realise that rocky marciano actually lost his 1st pro fight, look it up...........

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      Royal Waldorf 4 years ago from Chicago

      I must admitt CG that I respect your unwavering appreciation for Tyson, though I don't share in the opinion that (in his prime or whatever) he could of handeled the very best.

      There is no getting around him being the youngest to lose the title (Age of 23) or the debacle in Tokyo. Yes, he beat some Champs...Seldon (1), Burbick, Bruno, Smith and Tucker. However, the 5 of them have a combined total of ONLY ONE SINGLE SUCCSESSFUL TITLE DEFENSE. So, I can't rate him anywhere near being able to beat the best. How is it, specifically, that you do???

      IMO, if he saw Marciano coming at him with his nose split in half and blood everywhere, I submit that Tyson would do one of three things. Run for his life, feint or crap his pants.

      He is not worthy, that's my posititon and I have the truth to back it up.

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      carl green 4 years ago

      there was a 2 year spell when you could of put an undamaged tyson in with any heavyweight in history and it would have been very interesting indeed, i,m just amazed that you seem so reluctant to give him any credit for what achieved at an astonishingly young age, especially for a heavyweight,and a small one at that, 5ft 10,220pounds?, not big at all for a heavyweight, and lets not forget mr larry holmes went 12 rounds with holyfield about 2 years after tyson destroyed him,(only guy to ko him), i love mentioning that.....tyson was a shooting star, he was brilliant but he was gone so quickly, he had 5 yrs, from 19 to 24, ish.......i have to admit that's no were near long enough to cement a legacy, but hes still right up there imo....oh ps, don king is a bastard and the sooner he dies the better, yes i,m a king hater, look how he treated gerald mcllelan

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      Royal Waldorf 4 years ago from Chicago

      I hate my ex-wife, Pete Rose and Lance Armstrong, and resent you throwing the "hate flag" on my arguments. I am using "Technical Boxing Facts" (TBF's). I am not enamoured with the man but don't hate him. I merely call into question his championship qualities.

      Possible you have a TBF that supports him otherwise???

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      carl green 4 years ago

      wow, your a genuine tyson hater.....

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      Royal Waldorf 4 years ago from Chicago

      Hardly redemption for Mr. Tyson. In fact, this is more of the fabricated "aura" of his supporers in claiming him "invincible."

      Holmes was retired and 38 "something." "Jinx" was a legitamate light heavyweight, though a great puncher, an nothing more.

      Don't buy into this nonsense. Take a look at the"real goods," i.e., Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Liston. You'll never go back to this pretense.

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      lesliebyars 4 years ago

      I partially agree with Tyson being overrated but we must remember that he knocked out the undefeated Michael Spinks, which looking back was a great accomplishment and also knocking out Larry Holmes who was never knocked by anyone else.