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The 10 Greatest Race Horses of All Time

Updated on February 24, 2011

Needless to say, this list represents one man's subjective opinions as to the greatest of all time, and the horses represented here are only those who have raced on American soil. Those who argue that many non-American horses deserve inclusion will get no argument from me. I've tried to include the very best of the best without regard to gender or racing surface. Great fillies like Personal Ensign and Ruffian did not make the list simply because I don't think that on their best day they could beat any of the horses on this list on their best days (see also my article about Rachel Alexandra, about whom I would say the same.) Without further ado, the 10 Greatest Race Horses of All Time:

  1. Secretariat - 16 wins from 21 starts. The greatest of the great, his triple crown campaign, during which he set official track records at Churchill Downs and Belmont Park, and an unofficial track record at Pimlico, will never be exceeded or even matched. Pity poor Sham, an outstanding racehorse in his own right, who was a game second in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness before being annihilated with all the rest in Secretariat's incomparable Belmont Stakes win, during which he set a world record for 12 furlongs that still stands to this day.
  2. Man o' War - 20 wins from 21 starts. Man o' War was the first great race horse to really capture the public's imagination and raise horse racing in the public consciousness. His lone loss, ironically to a horse named Upset, came during his 2-year-old season in the 1919 but hardly mars an otherwise dominating career.
  3. Seattle Slew - 14 wins from 17 starts. Undefeated as a 2-year-old, Triple Crown winner at 3. His Kentucky Derby win, which came despite being rushed to the lead by Jean Cruguet after an awkward start, may be the greatest ever. Crushed Affirmed in their two meetings a Belmont Park in the fall of 1978.
  4. Spectacular Bid - 26 wins from 30 starts. Champion two and three-year old. Only denied a Triple Crown by a poorly judged ride in the Belmont Stakes by Ron Franklin. A threat to break the track record every time he stepped on the racetrack, his astonishing 1:57.4 in the 1980 Strub still stands as the record for 10 furlongs at Santa Anita
  5. Kelso - 39 wins from 63 starts. The only gelding on the list, "Mighty" Kelso, as he was inevitably described, was named Horse of the Year an incredible five times from 1960-1964, a feat that will surely never be matched. Perhaps not as consistent as others on this list, but his durability and willingness to take on all comers more than compensates.
  6. Native Dancer - 21 wins from 22 starts. Only a narrow loss to Dark Star after a rough trip in the 1953 Kentucky Derby blemishes an otherwise perfect career
  7. Dr. Fager - 18 wins from 22 starts. There's fast, faster, and Dr. Fager. Twice named champion sprinter, and once Horse of the Year, he was among the best from 7 furlongs to 1 1/4 miles.
  8. Miesque - 14 wins from 18 starts. The only filly, the only foreign-bred, and the only turf horse on this list, which says something about her greatness. 15 of her 16 starts came in Group 1 or Grade 1 races, but her crowning achievement is surely her back to back victories in the Breeders Cup Mile, both in utterly dominant style.
  9. Holy Bull - 13 wins from 16 starts. Brilliant, precocious, altogether the greatest horse of the 1990s (only Cigar can rival him). He might rank higher on this list if not for an unaccountably disastrous performance as the 2-1 favorite in the 1994 Kentucky Derby.
  10. Affirmed - 22 wins from 29 starts. His Triple Crown battles with Alydar will never by forgotten. His heart and intelligence combined with speed and stamina to make him one of the all time great champions. Beat Spectacular Bid in their only meeting, but was beaten handily by Seattle Slew in their two races.

Honorable Mentions: Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Buckpasser, Ghostzapper, Count Fleet, War Admiral, Seabiscuit, Damascus, Cigar, Personal Ensign, Ruffian, Risen Star, John Henry, Swaps.

Other Horse Racing Articles By This Author:


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      Mike O'Farrell 3 years ago

      Evidently Zenyatta has been overlooked. She is a legend in her own time. Not involved in a triple crown, but she was the best horse, male or female, since Secretariat. Without a doubt she was the best female of all time.

    • SilkDepartment profile image

      SilkDepartment 3 years ago

      :

      Franchise "NO HORSE runs two 1-1/2 mile races in back to back weeks, let alone doing it and posting incredible times like that!" Umm in 1957 and in consecutive weeks incredibly Tulloch ran in and WON the mile 1/2 AJC Australian Derby (breaking Phar Lap's track record winning by 6 lengths) travelled 800km's south to win the 1 mile Caulfield Guineas, the mile 1/2 Caulfield Cup (against the older horses when still a 3yo in WORLD record time) and 2 weeks later won the mile 1/2 VRC Victoria Derby (won by 8 lengths) then backing up 7 days later to win the mile 1/2 wfa CB Fisher Plate (again against older horses incl Washington DC International winner Sailor's Guide) then 7 days later travelled 2000km's north & won the mile 1/2 QTC Queensland Derby (won by 7 lengths). What a freak

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      Big Red 3 years ago

      The times say it all and Secretariat holds the records for the fastest times on the biggest races and those records have stood for 40+ years. The competition is secondary as his Belmont masterpiece was done by himself.

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      darren williams 3 years ago

      What about trigger ridden by that great jockey Roy rogers.

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      darren williams 3 years ago

      what about Mr Ed wasn't the quickest but could talk a good race. haha

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      BobS 3 years ago

      I agree with most of the list. One point, I believe the greatest race ever run by a race horse was the Dr Fager mile record run at AP. He carried 134 lbs. didn't break particularly well and was very wide on the turn. That record time has stood up for over 45 years.

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      Silk Department 4 years ago

      Shaun don't just read the form that suits your point....read ALL the form. St Nicholas Abbey has finished behind the likes of Frankel, Farhh, Solemia, Orfevre, Danedream, Nathaniel, Windsor Palace, Cirrus Des Aigles and many others in the last 12 months or so how can anybody proclaim him "world's best" ?? Obviously a big hole has been left in the middle distance category with the retirements of Frankel & So You Think however the horses I listed above, with the possible exception of Windsor Palace are at least equal if not superior to St Nic........

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      Diana 4 years ago

      What about Phar Lap?

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Once again just to show how great Frankel was ...... St Nicholas Abbey has just today won his 3rd coronation cup on Derby day, this is a record he has also just become the biggest money earner ever in Europe, and is also a breeders cup winner ... This is a horse Frankel destroyed by 10 lengths without getting out of 2 nd gear over 1 mile 2f last year. As the comentators have just said this horse is the best middle distance horse in the world at the moment and proves what a monster The Great FRANKEL was.

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      St Nicholas abbey

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      Stillkrsfromprp 4 years ago

      Ever heard of a little horse named, "Zenyatta" ?

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      colinr52 4 years ago

      its all greek to me?!!!

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      Mylindaminka 4 years ago

      Недавнее замедление на рынке недвижимости означает, что только 45000, как ожидается, будет завершено в столице в ближайшие четыре года, увеличения дефицита выходом жилья.

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      OK - when Blood-horse Mag voted on the TOP 100 horses of all-time it is true MOW finished first & Secretariat second. HOWEVER, did you know one of the panelist voted Secretariat #14 to skew the results in favor of MOW.....FACT!!! Had that complete idiot simply placed Secretariat in the top 5, SEC would have claimed the top spot. Also, when ESPN did their top 100 athletes of the 20th century, Secretariat finished #35, MOW #84, Citation#97. FYI, these were the only 3 horses considered top 100 athletes with Secretariat easily besting MOW & Citation. Greatness is NOT only based on W/L record. More significant is the manner & types of races in which the horse excelled in. With that said, Secretariat's supernatural-like feats on his continents BIGGEST RACES have earned him his unparalleled world-class stature!

      Ron

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      beverly 4 years ago

      don't know where this info came from but Man O'war is #1, Secretariat follows. They already had this vote/arguments about 12 years ago and settled it. This is NOT how they are listed in the hall of fame.

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Once agian...I am NOT knocking Frankel. A top ten horse for sure, but to say he was superior to Secretariat who notched WORKD CLASS fractions bewteen 8 & 12 furlongs is ABSURD. I am NOT a Timeform fan but even Rowlands acknowledged Secertariat with a 153 figure. If Frankel had run the ARC or Epsom at 12 furlongs and was dominate in either race at 12 furlongs, I would place him right alongside Secretraiat. DON'T BLAME ME for Cecil's ridciculous conservative approach. As an example, Dr. Fager & Spectacular Bid fall short of SEC in all U.S. polls/rankings because they have ZERO 12F triumphs to lean on. Frankel was truely a remarkable horse, but my opinion as well as COUNTLESS of OTHERS is that he isn't in Secretariat's class. FYI, while some enthusiasts side w/Frankel, the WORLD does NOT think Frankel is the greatest horse ever, that is simply your emotions talking.

      Ron

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      Kat 4 years ago

      I will have to agree with you on Secretariat. I was just at his birthday celebration at his birthplace over the weekend and it was amazing to see where "Big Red" got his start. The foaling shed, the yearling barn and the training barns were so cool to see! Two of his descendants (Covert Action and Rainaway) were there as were Charlie Davis, Ron Turcotte, Penny and Kate, which made it even more magical. Also, this year marks the 40th anniversary of his Triple Crown win!

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Fortunately for Frankel the racing world believes in him and not you ... Case closed ..... And once again today we saw st nicks abbey win at he world cup in Dubai comfortably, a horse Frankel destroyed by 10 lengths without getting into a top gear then animal kingdom beat red cadeaux and planteaur 2 & 4 lengths respectively in the Dubai world cup over 1.2 .planteaur a horse Frankel beat 2o lengths again without getting in to a top gear ..... On that line Frankel would have beat animal kingdom 14 lengths in the Kentucky derby ... Without getting into a top gear , Frankel never had a race, never got into top gear ..... ....... He beat breeders cup winners and Dubai world cup winners without breaking a sweat. Those are the fact and the racing world now it ....... And that really is the case closed

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Shaun - One additional note. I too am very disappointed in Cecil's "over the top" conservative approach. I truly regard Frankel as a remarkable horse who merited the right to be placed on Europe's grandest stages. NO EXCUSES, whatsoever, to dodge the ARC and Epsom Derby. A complete sham and a TOTAL DISERVICE to that wonderful thoroughbred!

      Best Regards,

      Ron

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Shaun....Highest ranked race horse of all-time??? On who's account....biggest croc of &^%$ I have ever heard. Forget North America....Europe's Sea Bird II, Ribot and Nijinsky are ALL superior horses! Here is why Frankel's short-sided ranking is an embarrassment my good friend:

      1) Frankel NEVER ran more than 10.5 furlongs and it took him 4 years just to exceed 8 furlongs. Not a single 12 or greater furlong race on his resume??? Give me a break!!!!

      2) NEVER posted a world-class time...NEVER! While I know you don't place much stock in speed records, in the SAME races Frankel ran, MANY other European horses easily bested his average at best times so how do you really measure his TRUE potential speed???

      3) Cecil's over-conservative approach is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE for the "so-called" greatest horse ever...LOL! Frankel DUCKED the most prestigious races including the Epsom Derby & the ARC as well as many others. WHY???? You cannot claim title to the finest horse ever WITHOUT your continent's premier races on your resume...CASE CLOSED.

      Great horse indeed Shaun, but his resume is filled with more holes and question marks than a block of swiss cheese. Any sensible/knowedgable racing enthusiast should know that with Cecil's RIDICULOUS conservative approach an eternal stigma Frankel will NEVER be able to dodge.

      Ron

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Congratulations Frankel on being official ranked as the highest race horses of all time today ........ Terrific and well deserved ....... Enjoy retirement ...... Hopefully it should not be as boring as your racing feats where there was no other horse in the world worthy of racing against you .... Some tried and were tragically destroyed by you, you beat the best rated milers and 1.2 horses the world had to throw at you and never had a race in doing so ..... you are a one off

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      colinr52 4 years ago

      Silkes, you've nailed it!! They were indeed a bunch of excretia booters!!Why was this race held in the mecca of racing , sleepy ole MEXICO ?? Not in the U.S.A.Simple, prohibition,No money!! No legal that is, No booze,Who put up the money for the so called richest race in the world??Work it out.Colbert the USA invaded GRENADA about 30 years ago,They may have been better off sending SEC,at least there would have no casulties and probably the same result.

    • SilkDepartment profile image

      SilkDepartment 4 years ago

      colin it was the worlds richest race at the time of the great depression, when money was almost impossible to come by. Are you telling me it was a field of shit kickers are you ? Give me a spell.......whilst you research Phar Lap a little more you may as well look up Tulloch. This bloke won 11 Grp 1 races in his 3yo season alone !!! He beat the best 3yo's and the best older horses and ran a world record mile 1/2 time when beating the older horses in the Caulfield Cup as a spring 3yo. 53 starts ONCE unplaced with 36 wins incl Grp1 wins from 7f - 16f at 2yo, 3yo, 5yo & 6yo. And he missed his entire 4yo & most of his 5yo years due to illness.

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      colbert 4 years ago

      colin52r stop being a loser. The Red Terror is the Ultimate Racehorse. Look for ways in words to downgrade this ICON in many parts of the world but the joke is on you. Frankel who ?. Not in the same breath. No Arc & no start outside home turf but you claiming to be the best. I SPIT ON YOUR BELIEVES. Remember when you think of THE RED TERROR. He INVADED another country and conquered. I won't even go in details of the stories behind the scenes or the LEGACY of his career back in Australia because just that race alone is already greater than FRANKELIA did in whole career.

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      colin52r 4 years ago

      sorry silkes but the field in mexico contained only one horse who had raced at premium level,Dr Freeland he won the Preekness as a 3yo . he was long past his best and was racing in claimers in around the time of the Agua Caliente,So stop propigating the myth!!!

    • SilkDepartment profile image

      SilkDepartment 4 years ago

      " Frankel could have carried on racing for another season or 2 , but whats the point when there in no other horse around in the world to give him a race " That comment is farcical, at best. He never raced outside of England, let alone Europe or the rest of the world. Champion horse who, sadly, was raced way too conservatively. It's not the horse's fault but the great Sir Henry Cecil looked after his prized horse rather than testing him out in the world's best races and his wealthy owner was plain selfish imo. Rather than showcase him to the world and seek greatness they chose not to risk defeat and thus ensure his future valuable stud fees remain intact.

    • SilkDepartment profile image

      SilkDepartment 4 years ago

      What are you on about colin52r ??? Let me set you straight. For starters there were NO Grp1 races in 1931. Group classifications for races came along later. At the time when Phar Lap won the Agua Caliente it was the world's richest race, which attracted the best horses from North America. So yes, he beat the best horses on 2 continents. No matter what you say you can never take that away from him. The facts are Phar Lap travelled for over a month by ship and then 1000 miles by road just to get there. Bit differnet from the 24 hour trip by plane these days isn't it ? To get him there fit and in one piece was a feat in itself, let alone he had to race on a surface which was totally foreign to him, he had a cracked hoof, carried top weight AND broke the track record after racing wide throughout after jumping from a wide barrier. As far as I can see it that makes him 1 from 1 internationally. That's after winning Australia's 2 biggest Derby's, Australasia's best race the WS Cox Plate (twice) as well as winning a Melbourne Cup and a multitude of other big races, all of which are classified as Grp1 races today. To denigrate his feats only makes you look foolish. So seeing as you mentioned the mighty Phap Lap I hope that sets you straight on a few things about him.

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      colin52r 4 years ago

      based on that,your NEW ZEALAND champion only won group one races in australasia. Since when is MEXICO a racing power house??.also the AGUA CALIENTE was never a group one race.

    • SilkDepartment profile image

      SilkDepartment 4 years ago

      Muttawaffa nobody could ever say Frankel was not a champion. He was. That is unquestionable. He was not afforded his shot at greatness due to the connections being over cautious with him to maximise his stud value and before you say his wealthy owner doesn't need the money if they were not doing that then he'd be still racing. Saying Frankel beat horses who won Group 1 races " WORLD WIDE " as you put it simply doesn't tell the whole story. How about you name those " WORLD WIDE " winners but before you do I just want to reinterate that Europe is not and has never been the whole world. The land area of Europe fits comfortably into single countries like the USA & Australia, the 2 countries with THE biggest thoroughbred horse populations. Excelebration has won 2 Group 1's in France, a proverbial hop skip and jump from Ascot. He has NO Grp1 wins outside Europe. St Nicholas Abbey is a 1 time Grp1 winner away from Europe. Cirrus Des Aigles is a 1 time Grp1 winner away from Europe. Immortal Verse NO Grp1 wins outside of Europe. Ditto Rio De La Plata. Canford Cliffs never raced outside of Europe either has Nathaniel. Who are these " WORLD WIDE " Grp1 winners ??

    • SilkDepartment profile image

      SilkDepartment 4 years ago

      Mike S writes "PHAR LAP won 37 of 51, not 32 of 35." Cannot recall anybody saying Phar Lap won 32 of 35. I have said on numerous occasions Phar Lap won 32 of his LAST 35 races, with 2 seconds. Phar Lap was a staying horse who was a late maturing horse. That didn't stop his trainer running him in his first 8 starts at distances NOT exceeding 7f and 6 of them were as a 2yo. Surely he wasn't expected to be winning early 2yo races at 5f, 6f & 7f when he was a world beater at 10f+.....So as you can see, at his next 43 starts, he won 37 of them. At 9.5f and beyond Phar Lap was beaten twice in 27 starts. Both were in the world's greatest 2 miler (he also WON it), once as a 3yo against the older horses and the other as a spring 5yo when he was asked to carry 10 stone 10 pounds (150 pounds) or 68kg's. If a horse were assigned that weight today the handicapper would be fired on the spot ! He won Group 1 races from 7f - 2 miles and had a winning distance range of 6f - 18f. Pretty handy horse wouldn't you say ?

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      stl4565 4 years ago

      The great horses all did different things under different cirumstances. The Belmont was the 6th race of 12 in Secretariats 3 yr old season and the 11th of 20 in Citation's season. How well would Secretariat have done in the Belmont if this had been his 11th race rather than 6th? Could he have won 19 of 20 as Citation did if theey added 10 more races to his 3 yr old schedule instead of 9 out of 12? Who knows? Sure, Secretariat had EXCUSES for his losses, but truth is people LOVE to make excuses or find a reason when their favorite loses. Bottom line is he lost just like every single other horse who lost -- he wasn't good enough to win all his races. I don't buy the notion that you can reasonably compare horses who raced at different times, against different horses, under different conditions. Ranking horse in this way is pure nonsense.

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      The only possible defense I could offer Lauren is that sometimes a horse's incredible ability (as was the case with Secretariat), fools the trainer/owner into believing they can overcome even illness or poor training which is obviously NOT the case. Horses CANNOT perform well when ill...PERIOD (e.g., did you ever try working out in a gym with a virus??? Let me tell you...it's not pretty!). As an example, I remember the great trainer of Ruffian, FrankWhitely, appropriately scratched Ruffian the morning of the Frezette Stakes because she wasn't eating right the past 12 - 16 hours. THAT is a SMART trainer! In fact, it turned out Ruffian was feeling under the weather because she had recently developed a very diminutive hairline fracture that upset her eating habits. GOOD FOR WHITELY! Before SEC lost to Onion, Turcotte BEGGED Lauren to scratch him because Turcotte KNEW something was wrong and running a low-grade fever, but Lauren threatened to find another jockey so Turcotte reluctantly rode a virus stricken SEC in the Whitney Stakes to a 2nd place finish. SEC wound up not being able to race for nearly 6 weeks. Of course, politics were involved here because 30,000+ people turned out at Saratoga to watch SEC with millions watching the race on TV via network coverage. NO WAY were Tweedy and Lauren scratching SEC under that microscope which I found absolutely despicable!

      Ron

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      Sounds like Lauren made a mess of things , patience is the key to training horses , the horse will let you know when he's ready and not joe public or the money men

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Honestly, at times I wish Lucien Lauren would have been somewhat more conservative with SEC, instead of carelessly thinking he could run him with a virus, massive abscess where the bit lies, and with zero trng for 2 weeks before a 12 furlong race! I HATED Lauren & EVERY sound racing ethusiasts surely knows SEC would have NEVER been bested (post first race of course) if his owner/trainer didn't ridiculously think he could overcome illness. SEC should have only lost his first race (another one of his losses he easily won by nearly 4 lengths but was disqualified & placed 2nd for light conatct in the stretch run - Champagne Stakes), but fortunately his incredible legacy is soundly secrured via the extraordinary manner of his many world-class performances.

      Best Reagrds,

      Ron

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      The reason FRANKEL didn't attempt 1 mile plus till he was 4 was because he wouldn't settle as a 3 year old and pulled far to hard for his own good. Nobody ever thought he would get a mile and a half after the way he won the guineas

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Future embarrassment??? You are kidding me right? I have NOTHING to be embarassed about. UK Frankel enthusiasts on the other hand have SO MUCH to be embarassed about since their "so-called" legend NEVER participated in the continent's most prestigious races...what a joke and I don't need the internet to back that statement up. The FACT that Frankel never exceeded 8 furlongs until he was COMPLTELY physically mature (4+ years) adds to the absolute JOKE of mentioning his name with the likes of Secretariat, Sea Bird II, Ribot, MOW, Spectacular Bid, etc. You VERY WELL KNOW the difference between a 3 and 4 year old horse is synonymous to a 15 and 21 year old male...anatomical fact! With that said, Frankel's ZERO races at 8+ furlongs prior to 4 years of age will forever hinder his all-time legacy.

      Great horse indeed my good friend, but Cecil's ultra-conservative approach will forever leave too many unanswered questions.

      Ron

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      Ron if your going to use extracts from the Internet to further your argument you really should do a little research before posting them, this will save you from any future embarrassment if you need to know any future information on world horse racing just ask me and I will be only to glad to help. I have now completed my list, FRANKEL beat 8 rivals with open age group one wins who between them won a total of 21 open age group ones world wide !!! I repeat WORLD WIDE, that means more than one country . Hope that's cleared things up and looking forward to being of assistance in the future.

      Many thanks

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Don't get sarcastic with me!!! I am ONLY the messenger laying out that YouTube individual's claims, and if YOU READ MY NOTE, I am asking for some assistence on assessing his G1 comments. I have NOT followed Frankel's career extensively to know off-hand the G1 horses he has beaten nor do I CARE! Just like most of you Europeans/UK people DON'T know SHIT about the nuances of many great American racehorses. What I DO KNOW with 100% certainty is that Cecil bypassed the most important UK/European races that typically determine a European horse's legacy as well as waiting nearly 4.5 years to run Frankel more than 8 furlongs. NOBODY can duck those FACTS...they are undebatable...and REAL horse racing enthsuaists surely know Cecil's approach was too damn conservative. Whatever floats your boat, and you continue gathering up a list of Frankel's G1 victims! Next time, engage your brain before you engear your mouth because I was simply looking for some insight on the G1 matter with your sarcasm totally unecessary.

      Ron

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      Good evening Ron , you'll have to bear with me a moment I'm just adding up the all age group one winners that FRANKEL has beat and there's a few more than you suggested as you can imagine taking on horses from all over the world it takes some checking I will be back once I've added them all up

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Here is another quote from the same indivudual...wow!

      "SECRETARIAT RATED 153 BY TIMEFORM!! Simon Rowlands, head of R+D at Timeform, rated SECRETARIAT (Belmont) 153 !! My research (I've done Weight and Speed ratings for 20 years) has him at 153. The U.S king of Speed, Andrew Beyer, also has him at TF equivalent 153 !!! All Ratings Authorities: SECRETARIAT 153...Frankel's "147" is completely fraudulent (really 138): 2nd + 3rd horses in his '147' have won ONE open G1 between them from 37 starts; their 'ratings' say they're 'world class' B.S"

      I am NOT a big fan of the Timeform Ratings (since I think they are ridiculously biased) so let me ask you guys....does this individual have a point (it certainly appears he does)??? Also, is it true that Frankel's 2nd & 3rd opponents in his 147 have won ONLY ONE G1 race in 37 starts? If that is the case, the combination of Frankel's less than superior times and easy victories don't amount to much. I will defer to the European analysts on this issue!

      Best Wishes,

      Ron

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Yes Sir! I found it while tooling around on various YOUTUBE racing forums. If you enter: "Secretariat A Moment Of Eternity" on YOUTUBE it will bring up the Belmont video and the various comments. You might want to watch the full video, since the addition of the wonderful music makes it very inspiring.

      FYI, understand I DO agree Frankel is a great horse, but he was simply handled too conservatively to be place above horses such as Sea Bird II, Ribot, Secretariat, MOW, Nijinsky, etc. If I was a Frankel fan I wuld be furious with Cecil. Waiting until 4+ years to run over 8 furlongs is UNACCEPTABLE and bypassing Europe's most distinguished races just doesn't cut it. Just my opinion.

      As always, best regards,

      Ron

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      Very interesting indeed Ron can you tell me what website that was on ?

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Gentlemen...I just found this statement on one of the internet's horse racing forums from an avid UK horse racing enthusiast....VERY INTERESTING:

      “I’m from the UK and not American, but its easy to see what a phenomenal horse Secretariat was. Belmont Stakes TF was 153, without a pacemaker! Frankel's BEST ever was '147' claimed (really 138). Interestingly, Simon Rowlands, who worked for Timeform, also assigned him a 153 (not credited by TF though...all those U.K stallions to sell, sell, sell). U.K people are blinded that 'their boy' Frankel is the 'best ever' - his career is a bad joke. Arc? Breeders cup? King George? derby? Oz? H.K? no no no no...pathetic career”

      .......VERY INTERESTING INDEED!!!!!!!!!

      Ron

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      There seems to be a common link regarding these records,I just can't put my finger on it. Can anyone help me out ?

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Following is a list of WORLD RECORDS (on any surface with a majority of the mainstream distance records on TURF). FYI, the California based Santa Anita Turf course is/was widely regarded for their "speed of light" TURF surface, resulting in 3 world record times:

      DISTANCE/HORSE/AGE/WEIGHT/TRACK/DATE/RECORD TIME

      4F Ameri Brilliance 4 121 Timonium 08/23/2003 :43.76

      4 ½ F Valiant Pete 4 121 Los Alimitos 08/11/1990 :49.20

      5F (T) Procreate 7 116 Gulfstream 04/09/2005 :53.79

      5 ½ F (T) Pembroke 5 120 Hollywood Park 07/05/1995 1:00.46

      6F G Malleah 4 120 Turf Paradise 04/08/1995 1:06.6

      6 ½ F Sabertooth 7 118 Emerald Downs 05/22/2005 1:13.00

      7F Soaring Free 5 126 Woodbine 07/24/2004 1:19.38

      7 ½ F Awesome Daze 5 119 Hollywood Park 11/23/1997 1:26.26

      1 Mile Mr. Light 6 118 Gulfstream Park 01/03/2005 1:31.41

      1 1/16 Miles Told 4 123 Penn National 09/14/1980 1:38.00

      1 1/8 Miles Kostroma 5 117 Santa Anita Park 10/20/1991 1:43.92

      1 3/16 Miles Toonerville 4 120 Hialeah Park 02/07/1976 1:51 2/5

      1 ¼ Miles Double Discount 4 116 Santa Anita Park 10/09/1977 1:57 2/5

      1 3/8 Miles With Approval 4 118 Belmont Park 06/17/1990 2:10.20

      1 ½ Miles Hawkster 3 121 Santa Anita Park 10/14/1989 2:22 4/5

      1 5/8 Miles Tom Swift 5 110 Saratoga 08/23/1978 2:37.00

      1 ¾ Miles Paper Junction 4 123 Lincoln State Fair 11/10/1985 2:50 2/5

      2 Miles Petrone 5 124 Hollywood Park 07/23/1969 3:18.00

      Following is a list of World Records on DIRT (of course, primarily North America):

      DISTANCE/HORSE/AGE/WEIGHT/TRACK/DATE/RECORD TIME

      2F Pensglitter 7 116 Penn National 10/09/2004 :20.71

      2 ½ F Nice Choice 7 121 Nuevo Laredo 09/25/1984 :26 1/5

      3F Eclat 5 123 Remington Park 11/28/2005 :31.01

      3 ½ F Steel Penny Black 2 115 Northlands Park 06/14/1984 :38 1/5

      Spiderwoman 5 122 Douglas 04/23/2000 :38.2

      4F Ameri Brilliance 4 121 Timonium 08/23/2003 :43.76

      4 ½ F Valiant Pete 4 121 Los Alimitos 08/11/1990 :49.20

      5F Chinook Pass 3 113 Longacres 09/17/1982 :55 1/5

      5 ½ F Plenty Zloty 5 118 Turf Paradise 04/18/1995 1:01.0

      6F G Malleah 4 120 Turf Paradise 04/08/1995 1:06.6

      6 ½ F Sabertooth 7 118 Emerald Downs 05/22/2005 1:13.00

      7F Rich Cream 5 118 Hollywood Park 05/28/1980 1:19 2/5

      Time To Explode 3 117 Hollywood Park 06/26/1982 1:19 2/5

      7 ½ F Awesome Daze 5 119 Hollywood Park 11/23/1997 1:26.26

      1 Mile Dr. Fager 4 134 Arlington 08/24/1968 1:32 1/5

      Najran 4 113 Belmont Park 05/07/2003 1:32 .24

      1 1/16 Miles Hoedown's Day 5 119 Bay Meadows Fair 10/23/1983 1:38 2/5

      1 1/8 Miles Simply Majestic 4 114 Golden Gate 04/02/1988 1:45

      1 3/16 Miles Riva Ridge 4 127 Aqueduct 07/04/1973 1:52 2/5

      Farma Way 4 119 Pimlico 05/11/1991 1:52 2/5

      1 ¼ Miles Spectacular Bid 4 126 Santa Anita 02/03/1980 1:57 4/5

      1 3/8 Miles Demi's Bret 4 116 Aqueduct 10/26/1997 2:12.31

      1 ½ Miles Secretariat 3 126 Belmont Park 09/06/1973 2:24.00

      1 5/8 Miles Swaps 4 130 Hollywood Park 07/25/1956 2:38.20

      1 ¾ Miles Paper Junction 4 123 Lincoln State Fair 11/10/1985 2:50 2/5

      2 Miles Kelso 7 124 Aqueduct 10/31/1964 3:19

      Hope this helps!

      Ron

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      Can someone please post all world record times for all distances on here please. Thank you

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      To: colinr52 - I would have to say that Kelso was the greatest "mature" champion to ever grace an American race track, and his 5 horse of the year awards certainly back-up that statement. Honorable mention would go to the 2 horses you mentioned (Swaps, John Henry) as well as Forego. You make a fine point of rating "babies" during their TC 3 year-old season which is why Secretariat's speed performances as a 3-year old were so amazing. A horse reaches full physical maturity between the period of a mid-4 year old and 5. The anotomical difference between a 3 and 4 year old is synonyomous to a 15 and 21 year-old male....that is a biomechanical FACT. While the sport tries to offset the age variance with weight differentials (handicaps) it simply doen't work out that way with the older horse carrying more weight still at a decided advantage. Once again, this philosophy works in Secretariat's favor because SEC CRUSHED 4 and 5 year-old champion horses as a 3 year-old including Canadian Champion Kennedy Road (twice), Riva Ridge, Couger II, Key to the Mint, and the finest North American turf horse Tentam (that is until SEC treated him with absolute contempt in SEC's 1st turf race!).

      Regards,

      Ron

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      colinr52 4 years ago

      Once again Secretariat was a freak of nature,So was Man o War,The Tetrarch,Eclipse, Sea Bird II and of course the mighty Ribot.Frankel deserves the same accolade, no doubt.These horses were so superior to there generations that here we are in the 21st century still discussing there different virtues and comparing respective performances.There is no way you can denegrate any of the above if some had been defeated the human factor must be taken into accont. I personally do not go along with the Triple Crown concept of eternal and historic greatness in any country or continent,A thoroughbred has stopped its bio developement and at it's peak of powers at five, so why should we rate babies? Yes we still can laud the young ones but lets not exalt them to a celestial status.Ron,Can you tell an ignoramous,What are americas age classics(dirt and turf) ?.How do you rate the US's mature champions?Example Swaps,John Henry etc,

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      You got me Mike??? While I am certainly not downplaying "relative speed" (that concept truly exists in thoroughbred horse racing), you have to be absolutely ignornant to downplay a horse consistently running world-class times in their continent's premier races! The FASTEST time to the wire wins the race....period! Does EVERY European horse coast along with significant "reserves"? Give me a break because Secretariat coasted in some of his record setting performances!

      Let's place aside Secretariat as well as all North American horses and look at other EUROPEAN thoroughbreds that ran outstanding races on the biggest stage. Sea Bird II, Ribot and Nijinsky are the 3 horses that immediately come to mind. How can ANYONE state Frankel is better than ANY of those 3 horses??? Ribot was undefeated and won the ARC TWICE so why is Frankel's 14-0 better than Ribot's 16-0 with 2 ARC wins...are you kidding me??? Nijinsky is the LAST horse to win the English TC and had it not been for a notable "jockey error", he would have also won the ARC. Sea Bird II's performances in the 1-1/2 mile ARC (as well as other races including Epsom) speak for themselves. NO WAY can Frankel be placed over these 3 horses when he NEVER participated in either the ARC or Epsom Derby. Had Secretariat not claimed the TC in World-Class fashion, his legacy would likewise be severly hindered. This is why Spectacular Bid is always slighted on US all-time listings. Along with SEC, Spectacular Bid was one of the fastest (if not THE FASTEST) 1-1/4 mile thoroughbred EVER, but his failure in the Belmont Stakes as well as other 1-1/2 mile races (he NEVER won at that distance) severely hurt his all-time legacy.

      Once again, let me make this PERFECTLY CLEAR.....it is a horse's performance on his continent's biggest stage(s) that secures their place in history. Simply stated, Cecil's ultra-conservative approach with Frankel will forever hinder this great horse's status among BOTH European and North American horses.

      Ron

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      Mike S 4 years ago

      Muttawaffa wrote: "Ron secretariat does not have global status he might in America but no where else. World record times mean nothing we've been racing horses over here for over 300 years and we don't use clocks because they have no relevance to a horses ability."

      Oh my goodness. Unbelievable.

      World record times, or track records, aren't everything, but they do say something. I will take a "SECRETARIAT" any day of the week over a horse who ran somewhere else and ran 5 seconds slower all the time while defeating cream puffs.

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      I guess times shouldn't measure a horse's greatness because why would consistent world-class times matter in a sport where the FIRST horse to the finish line is declared the winner...LOL. Let me guess...now is your time to jump in and utilize the term "relative times" which for realists is the biggest COPOUT for a horse that NEVER exhibits world-class speed. Oh, I forgot, Frankel had "plenty of extra reserve in him if needed"...another "BS" statement utilized for horses that fail to produce lightning fast times. Ron Turcotte virtually never went to the stick with Secretariat. If you watch SEC's stretch runs in ALL 3 TC races, the Marlboro Cup, MOW Stakes, etc., he was being hand ridden by Turcotte, easily coasting the final furlong or two while still shattering the clock BOTH on dirt and TURF!

      Frankel was handled more conservativley than ANY horse EVER and that is a FACT. NO ARC or Europe TC....why????????????? NO 8+ furlong race until 4+ years old...an absolute joke for a horse that is supposed to be considered an all-time great. Secretariat & OTHER true champion race horses ran G1 middle distance races every 3/4 weeks races and if Lauren/Tweedy had been equally cautious with Secretariat he might have won every race until he was euthanized at 19. FYI gentlemen, your "so-called" European champion thoroughbreds likewise mean absolutely NOTHING in North America so it works both ways. Cecil handled Frankel as if he was made of glass - 14 races at 4-1/2 years old (with virtually all of them 1 mile or less) and you want to mention him as an all-time great??? Let's forget Secretarat for a moment & talk about Sea Bird II so you clearly understand this is not just about America vs. Europe. Sea Bird II would have likewise BURIED Frankel over 12 furlongs based on his world-class performances in Europes most prestigious races such as the ARC. To reiterate, Frankel is no doubt an outstanding horse but his absence from many of Europes most exalted races should eliminate him from ANY all-time greatest discussion. Horses like Secretariat & Sea Bird II performed in a breathtaking manner on their respective continent's biggest stages and THAT is the mark of a true champion thoroughbred.

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      Ron secretariat does not have global status he might in America but no where else. World record times mean nothing we've been racing horses over here for over 300 years and we don't use clocks because they have no relevance to a horses ability

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      blake63 4 years ago

      No doubt Sec is a champion in the U.S. But honestly in many parts of the racing world, Sec is not mention in debates as one of the great. Not because of unknown. Its just the way it is. You talk highly of Sec about this & that but we too speak highly of our champions. But you went for World Domination, using words like I DONT CARE WHO..NO ONE Blah,blah. AT HIS PEAK. Everyone says that about their champion. . At the end of the day, Sec too got rolled in his career, while Frankel stayed unbeaten in TRUE WORLD CLASS races. Talk to the Turf. Or more your liking. Talk to the hand.

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      What in God's name does America's standard of race horses have to do with Secretariat's supernatural ability??? Are you learning impaired??? If a horse from "Bolivia" or "Puerto Rico" came along and shattered world records and accomplished incredible racing feats does that mean you wouldn't be able to compare it to the all-time greats??? Secretariat was an absolute freak of nature with his overall conformation, massive heart and atypical combination of world-class speed and "stayer" ability. That is FACT and NO ONE can possibly dispute SEC's supernatural like status. I don't care WHERE he ran, who he ran against, what tracks he ran on, etc., etc. etc. At peak value, he was the most gifted and superior race horse that EVER graced the sport. Take a sedative and go back into your coma because your sterotyping of American race horsing blinds you to Secretariat's possible GLOBAL status as the greatest of them all!

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      Ron where talking about the best racehorses in the world if you want to say secretariat is the best in America then that's a fare point. But to say he's the best in the world is insane as American racing is of such a low standard

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      blake63 4 years ago

      Pathetic Jealousy Of America. Frankel's connections decides whats best for Frankel. If stepping over a mile was when at aged 4yrs+. W(ho)TF are we to say LASIX! They say NOW, we say WOW. At the end of the day. Frankel did stepped up over a mile and....BANG BANG! At any middle distance Secretariat ( i wish ) would've buried Frankel. What if he dislike the jockey. Or his breathing was not in good order. Or he came down with the flu. Or his trainer chose to be an *&^%$#@ on race day. Secretariat (All 1,200lbs) is one of the best......in America. PS. ( I am jealous because you make the best burgers ).

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      And the beat goes on....NO ONE continues to answer the question why it took a horse of Frankel's caliber until 4+ years to run over 1 mile....you are ALL PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep on focusing on the Lasix "bull$#%@" and duck the REAL issue....Frankel didn't run over 1 mile until nearly 4-1/2 years old....an absolute JOKE!!! Secretariat would have BURIED Frankel at ANY middle distance run. Oh, and by the way, if Lasix strips a horse of 20-30 lbs I found it iunteresting that Secretariat was nearly 1,200 lbs consistently throughout his 2/3 year campaign! Your jealousy of America is absolutely pathetic!!!!!!!!!!

      Ron

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      I'm afraid it's true Blake . Canadian slaughter houses have stopped accepting horses from the US because the level of steroids and other drugs is to high. Which means the meat can't be exported to Europe for human consumption

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      blake63 4 years ago

      If this is true that Horses from Europe winning in the U.S is common, while the U.S horses are still struggling to win in Europe. Then the U.S can take their steroids and stick it. Secretariat was a champion in the U.S but that's it. Frankel too stayed on home soil but the difference is the quality of opposition. Frankel's faced a thousand times better than Secretariat ever did. Ron you need to get a life man.

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      Ron of course lasix is performance enhancing why do think they use it , if you have two horses of equal ability with bleeding problems but only one is on lasix the one on lasix will win. Lasix is also a diuretic and will strip a horse of up 20 to 30lbs of weight before a race while still retaining its muscle condition, this equates to multiple lengths advantage depending on distance travelled. Lasix is banned everywhere else in the world because its also used as a masking agent for steriods and other substances . if you keep using lasix you will only breed horses that bleed and need lasix to race and thus the cycle continues .Also every single world record time from distances from 2 furlongs to 2 miles is held by American horses on American tracks don't you think that's odd ?? Every single record !!!! I agree I think American horses should come to Europe more often I wouldn't expect them to enter in our classics as you've got your own but there's no reason why they couldn't come to royal ascot or the arc. Hell Ron you could even come over and stay !!!!!! I've got a spare room

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      FYI, anatomically speaking Lasix is NOT a performance enhancing drug guys like HGH & any other form of anabolic steroids, etc....LOOK IT UP! European enthsuiasts LOVE to utilize the drug stance with supernatural horses such as Secretariat (I will use "Big Red" as my example for US horses), but it DOESN'T hold water. During SEC's years, performance enhancing substances were strictly tested for via post-race "Saliva tests". Also, if SEC had used steroid related products, his massive physiological structure including his 22lb+ heart would have significantly shrunk over 16 years. Once you STOP ultizing steroid related substances, ANY muscle related structures/organs (e.g., heart, standard skelatol muscles, etc.) begin a vast shrinking process....LOOK IT UP! Secretariat's vet who performed his autopsy duely noted ZERO...and I repeat...ZERO evidence of any steroid related drugs in his system, noting the PROVEN "X" chromosome for his unparalleled structure and heart. I use SEC as an example because it was his massive heart that allowed him to produce and synthesize oxygen at a greater rate than virtually any horse, thus responsible for his heartstopping performances....simple physics gentlemen that cannot be refuted. With that in mind, DON'T EVER TELL ME SEC would NOT have been able to handle Epsom & The ARC....his heart was made for tough courses like that and its a shame Tweedy didn't send him overseas....it would have been great to see! I do agree that some of the exceptional North American horses should start attempting your classic races.....it would be great for the sport.

      I also find it interesting that neither one of you responded to the comments relating to Frankel's ultra-conservative career with regard to the extent of time it took him to exceed a 1 mile course? While I truly believe Frankel is an incredible horse, you CANNOT wait 4-1/2 years to exceed 1 mile and be considered the greatest horse ever...nonsense! Not Frankel's fault at all, but it is what it is.

      Sincerely,

      Ron

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      RON wake up and look around you it's a big world out there. Until US horses venture out of there comfort zone and compete in the worlds best races they can never be taken seriously on the world stage. If they don't sort out there drug problems they are going to fall even further behind the rest of the world. I've a lot of respect for Wesley Ward bringing his horses over to Royal Ascot and having a go,hopefully there will be more to come over the coming years

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Frankel running on flat US tracks in drugged environment would have had even more of an advantage ......... To put it in perspective imagine the horses you mention running in a clean environment on undulating tracks with camber that unbalance a horse ........... Their performance against the clock would not have been anywhere near what it was ......... Had Frankel been born and trained in the US he would have won the US TC without any trouble at all ........ Not sure you could say that about some American horse if they ran at Newmarket or Epsom ........ Many European an British horses have won in the US including ones that could not win in Europe ........ How many US horses have won in europe ...... I can't think of one ....... US horses cant cope with the challenges presented by european tracks especially when they also have to run clean ....... Just ask Lance Armstrong the difference drugs make ........... Anyhow better judges than you and me say Frankel is the best they have ever seen, he is definitely the best I have ever seen ........ St nich abbey won the breeders cup turf and Frankel destroyed him whilst never needing to get out of 2 gear

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Shaun...go easy on Mike & understand that Zenyatta is truly a great horse. Now let's get down to business & let me get this straight. You & other European enthusiasts have the absolute GALL to claim Frankel is the greatest horse ever when he didn't run a post 1 mile race until he was 4+??? Are you kidding me Shaun!!! A horse physically matures at 4 versus 3 similar to a 21 versus 16 year-old male...look it up...an absolute anotomical FACT. Also, why didn't Frankel ever run in the ARC & Europe's TC if he was so great??? These are THE "MAKE OR BREAK" races in Europe similar to America's TC. I'll tell you why...Cecil was too damn cautious and over time that ultra-conservative approach WILL hurt Frankel's legacy (not the horse's fault of course). I only wish Tweedy/Lauren would have been so conservative with Secretariat instead of running him at will regardless of his physical state. Also, to think that Frankel would have bested Secretariat with BOTH horses at peak value is insane. Forget about 4.....SEC would have feasted on Frankel as a 3 year-old, and God only knows how SEC would have crushed him at the age of 4. Believe me this goes far beyond SEC vs. Frankel beacuse at 1 mile, horses like Dr. Fager, SWAPS & Ruffian, just to name a few, would have been simply too fast for Frankel. Also, you cannot place Frankel over Sea Bird II because of Sea Bird's breathtaking performances in midle distance races such as the 1-1/2 mile ARC. It almost amuses me...ONE 10.5 furlong race it took 4-1/2 years to run and you guys are making this horse out to be God....it borders on insanity!!!!!!!!!

      Ron

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Oh and by the way Frankel faced horses that were higher rated than Zenyatta that's official so your right he did not face a horse as good as her he faced better .......... She never faced a horse as good as him though or a horse rated as high.

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Enough with mentioning Zenyatta in the same breath as Frankel ....... It shows no respect to the world of racing ....... Mike s you should be ashamed of yourself ........ Frankel was different class and like the rest of the world you know it to ........ Even with the advantage of flat tracks. And drugs Zenyatta could still not get anywhere near the international rating of Frankel ........ If Frankel had had her advantages he would have Been rated of the scale, as it was she still came no where near .... That bell that's clear to you must be ringing in your ears and has done some damage to your brain

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      You must be the only person in the world with that view mike even in her prime she was rated over a stone behind FRANKEL that equates to nearly ten lengths over 1m 2f. thats not just my view but that of the official handicapper so unless FRANKELS leg fell off Zenyatta would be no where near good enough to get even close . A good mare that she was I don't think she was even the best of her own sex over that distance the French mare Zarkava surely has that crown

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      Mike S 4 years ago

      It's clear as crystal, clear as a bell, to me, that ZENYATTA is better than FRANKEL. He is a great runner, too, but he wouldn't be able to hold her off unless she had an off day, then she might lose by a head. Other than that, ZENYATTA, at the age of 4 or 5, would have been just too much for FRANKEL. He never faced a horse nearly that good.

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      colinr52 4 years ago

      Muttawaffa,i hear what you are saying and acknowledge it but think of the slow ones the Prince has had, He no doubt was born into this affluence but seems to be a canny businessman so i would think most of his associates and he would jump at an asset he owns making a lazy 100 mill or so.He may treat this racing game as a hobby but i have found most billionaires are often driven to make an increase in what to us paupers are staggering sums.Perhaps we should feel sorry for them(billionaires that is) On second thoughts .lets hope he breeds something similar that we mere mortals can share with him as we have with this mighty horse.May he be blessed again.

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      Colinr52 I agree but they are no longer bred to race they are now raced to breed . But it's not about money with FRANKEL his owner prince khalid abdulla is a billionaire and doesn't need the money but he's also a very successful breeder with juddmonte farms. FRANKEL is too much of an important asset to risk fatal injury on the racetrack. On another note I read today that lasics will be banned from this years breeders cup, for two year olds only though . It's a start but they need to ban All drugs in all races this will allow visiting horses to compete on a level playing field and stop the further decline of the American bloodstock industry.

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      One other thing had Frankel stayed in racing, he was already scaring a lot of the worlds top horses away, he might have ended up with walkovers anyway

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Collin52 ..... I agree I would much rather see Frankel on the race track and in that respect had he been a gelding or a filly then he would have carried on , especially as unlike a lot of the greatest horses he was still improving and was not yet at the top of his powers ....... The only thing I would add when you say they love to race is that Frankel never really had a race it was all to easy for him, they might as well been walkovers

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      colinr52 4 years ago

      The point is they ARE born to race not languish in a paddock earning some corporate ideal zillions of bucks.They love to race ,to compete,you will see it, every raceday all over the world running their guts out not just to win but to run.That's what makes this animal unique and to lose one so blessed as FRANKEL is premature to say the least.He is healthy and still not at the peak of his powers.What a loss!!!

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Frankel could have carried on racing for another season or 2 , but whats the point when there in no other horse around in the world to give him a race ........... In the end even he must have thought when am I actually going to have something to race against ....... Race days were just like a morning canter to him. ........... More chance of him getting bored than beat ..... My word Frankel getting beat, I'd have a better chance of winning the lottery than that happening

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      The International horse racing federation rated Frankel at 140, they did not even have Zenyatta in the 130 's at her best ........time form gave Frankel there highest ever rating in there history of 147 ........... If you take away national bias then Zenyatta would not even have been in the same straight as Frankel .......... Frankel is an all time great, Zenyatta was just another good horse. ....... And remember Frankel achieved this by running clean on undulating tracks with varying cambers that can unbalance a horse .......... Zenyatta ran on the flat and regular tracks of the US were horses can drug up ............most agree that Frankels ratings are conservative ....... Had he done his racing on the flat tracks of tha US and had the opportunity to be drug assisted ...... OMG his rating would have been of another universe ....... Just ask Lance Armstrong

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Mike s better than Frankel ....... I would agree but then we would both be wrong ....... Fortunately the rest of the world knows better ...... The only way Zenyatta could get on the same track as the mighty Frankel is as his pacemaker ... And then that would not last long as Frankel in 2nd gear would just cruise by and laugh

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      Zenyatta never beat anyone so can never be considered great and only raced in America so her form can never be taken seriously and even of you did consider her form to be correct / clean she would still HAVE 14ib to find with FRANKEL

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      Mike S 4 years ago

      ZENYATTA is a better horse than FRANKEL, although the latter is also a great horse. It's just that she's greater.

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      colinr52 4 years ago

      Great horse. no doubt.Pity his connections never went to mile and half and showcased him on the international stage still nice way to celebrate racing into the new millenium.We now wait with great anticipation for his sons and daughters.

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Frankel said to the best of the rest you want to beat me ... I'm here you come and beat me, some tried and were destroyed , others knew better and stayed away ........... Breeders cup winners, the next best rated horse in the world ................. They all went the same way when Frankel toyed with them .......... Never has there been a horse who is unbeatable at any distance ...... The ultimate equine machine ......... Enjoy your retirement ........ Just wish he had been allowed to race at 5 as even though he is the best ever, he was still improving , yes imagine that, still improving, an even better Frankel at 5 , OMG ............ Could we ever have stood it .....

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      Muttawaffa 4 years ago

      FRANKEL the best horse ever to grace this earth I doubt there'll ever be another like him. Just lucky that he came in our life time , the best there's been for 300 years and they'll still be talking about him in another 300. FRANKEL the king of kings

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      col simon 4 years ago

      Frankel's 14 wins has to be the Greatest Ever on British turf. He is a monster. One expert is saying that Frankel doesn't need to win a Arc or other World class race to be the Greatest of all time. You think ? Still i rate Frankel as one of the Greatest of all time. Hail to the Mighty Frankel.

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Why Frankel is the greatest horse racing has ever seen

      In the 473 years since racing was first recorded, on the Roodee at Chester, the Turf has not come up with a more poignant story than Britain’s greatest trainer fighting stomach cancer while brilliantly marshalling the career of the ultimate horse.

      Every biographical detail marks him out as No 1. Born at Banstead Manor Stud in Newmarket on Feb 11, 2008, Frankel was named after the popular American trainer Bobby Frankel, who died from cancer in 2009. His namesake has the largest feet and the biggest appetite of all Cecil’s horses.

      He covers a huge 22 feet with each stride and is thought to possess an unusually big heart. Most top racehorses gallop on size-five feet or thereabouts. Frankel’s are size 7½ in front and seven behind.

      The 23lb of Canadian oats he consumes each day are the equivalent of 600 Weetabix.

      Frankel, who has been nicknamed ‘Usain Colt’ and seeks his 14th victory from as many starts in his final outing, at Ascot today, was described by one bloodstock agent this week as “the point to which the thoroughbred has evolved”.

      “It’s like looking at a piece in a museum. I just watch him and I think he’s the best there’s been,” says André Fabre, France’s foremost trainer.

      “He has a combination of power and charm and has a great personality. For me Mill Reef was the ultimate thoroughbred so far but Frankel is better.”

      If there is a comparison with Frankel’s domination it might be Eclipse, the best horse of the 18th century. He won all his 18 races and scared off most opposition. More than 90 per cent of all modern thoroughbreds are descended from him in the male line.

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      FRANKEL ............ He's Big, he's bad, he's the best there has ever been ........he runs clean and he's British .............. what a year for Britain ...........a clean Tour de france winner, a great olympics with many many clean olympics champions, a clean US open tennis champion and the greatest race horse of all time who runs clean ........ you just can't beat it ................. can you Lance

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Aidan O'Brien, trainer

      "One word describes him - incredible. He's the most incredible horse we have ever seen. He's just unbelievable."

      Johnny Murtagh, jockey

      "He just kills horses, he wins Group Ones by six or seven lengths - it's hard to win a maiden like that. He's just the ultimate champion."

      Frankie Dettori, jockey

      "He's been an amazing story and an amazing horse. He doesn't just win, he destroys the field every time. He's not only got a great physique, he's got that will to win. I've never seen anything like it, and I probably won't for a long time. To have such a beautiful creature in our sport is fantastic."

      Andre Fabre, trainer

      "I don't know what else you can say about him. He's probably the best horse who has ever been bred, he's a combination of power and charm. He has a great personality. He's extraordinary. The best I had seen before was Mill Reef, but Frankel is probably better."

      Nick Skelton, Olympic gold medallist

      "I think Frankel is a freak; he has to be the best Flat horse of all time."

      Scott Brash, Olympic gold medallist

      "Every time I've see him he just looks like he's playing with the field - he's in an absolute league of his own. I think he's the best of all time and it's a privilege to be around when he's racing."

      Mark Evans, Channel 4's 'Inside Nature's Giants'

      "I've been lucky enough to travel the world to study the anatomy of some of the most extraordinary animals on earth - from polar bears in the Arctic to hippos in Zambia. But, as a scientist, the one animal I would love to get my hands on is Frankel. With their huge hearts, cavernous lungs, self-doping spleens, built-in biceps catapults and light, long pogo-stick legs, all champion race horses are extraordinary biological machines. But, as an equine athlete, Frankel is clearly in a class of his own."

      "Like all athletic greats, Frankel has a knack of making exceptional opposition look inferior, or in his case, proper Group One horses shape like mere handicappers. His talent transcends our sport, like no other horse I can remember during my lifetime."

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Average horses have broken track records, if times were the only measure then no European horse would have ever won in the US let alone a breeders cup race as all the record times are in the US because the tracks are so flat and easy, never mind the dugs, but as we know loads of European horses have won races in the US ...... So times may fascinate Americans like all stats, but as we Europeans know there are stats, stas and dam lies ......... Greatness is measured by the eye you can not explain the x factor

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Frankel ....... 14 out of 14 ........ As the comentators and experts said champion of champions, greatest of the greatest ......... He races clean and triumphs on undulating tracks ........... Zenyatta huh don't make me laugh, Frankel would beat that animal with 3 legs ......... So how do you compare a time on a flat furlong to an uphill furlong, oh of course you don't as in the US there all perfectly flat ...... My god that's easy meat .......... The experts agree Frankel there has never been better, don't ever mention Zenyatta in the same breath, ............ 30 mins before Frankel won the champion stakes over 1 mile 2 f ...... The horse who is the 2 nd best miler in the world after Frankel who has beaten him 5 times easily won the champion miler race easily himself .......... Frankel does not just beat champions he destroys them........ "the greatest race horse of all time" so says 5 time champion and 4 time derby winning jockey willie Carson ...... And after him they are queuing up to agree ....... Oh we who are not worthy salute you Frankel ........ Just a pity you never had to have a real race as no one was good enough to push you into top gear ..... Imagine that Frankel in top gear, we can only imagine

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      Mike S 4 years ago

      I would like to help clarify a few erroneous points that have been made.

      PROVE OUT won the Jockey Club Gold Cup by 4-3/4 lengths, not 30 lengths, as someone posted. Big difference.

      SECRETARIAT won the Marlboro Cup on September 15th, then was second to PROVE OUT in the Woodward Stakes on September 29th. That's two weeks, folks. If they trained him on turf, so what? He was more than familiar with Belmont already, and was fit as a fiddle. It's not a big deal that he lost, he's still the greatest horse of all time. There's nothing like his Triple Crown, it was otherworldly. Even the greatest horses lose (ZENYATTA even lost!).

      PHAR LAP won 37 of 51, not 32 of 35.

      Someone asked why is SECRETARIAT's 31 lengths like the second coming and yet Count Fleet's 25 lengths is ho hum? Well, because SECRETARIAT broke the track record by 2-2/5 seconds, running a 2:24, while Count Fleet ran a 2:28-1/5, while facing two opponents.

      MAN O' WAR won the Lawrence Realization by 100 lengths, but it was against 1 opponent, and that "challenger," who was a 6 furlong runner being asked to go 13 furlongs, ran the day before! He didn't do any running at all against MAN O' WAR, he was as good as pulled up. He must have had a nice walk that day. I fail to see what's so impressive about this "victory." 2:40-4/5 is a good time, and it smashed the record, but that might have been a function of that distance not being run very often back then. SWAPS' record for the distance is 2:38-1/5...quite a difference. Also, when it comes to MAN O' WAR he was one of only 1,680 horse born that year, and on 12 occasions he faced 3, 2, or 1 opponents, so I surely cannot buy into this "greatest of all time" stuff, although he was a great horse, of course, and should rank in the top 12 or 15 of all time. It's sort of like propaganda...it sounds real good...until you examine the facts.

      "CITATION and NATIVE DANCER would beat SECRETARIAT 8 of 10 times," and "Eddie Arcaro said SECRETARIAT is better than CITATION" are opinions, not facts.

      Here's an opinion...FRANKEL is a great horse, although nowhere near to being the greatest, and he's lucky he never had to face ZENYATTA. Also, he has done the same thing over and over again - win at a mile on soggy turf. How does that prove anything besides he's able to win at a mile on soggy turf against rather modest competition? I don't see any "SECRETARIAT" or "SPECTACULAR BID" type stuff here. If I compared him to anyone it would be MIESQUE and GOLDIKOVA, both fantastic milers on turf, but I think they ran faster.

      FRANKEL's fastest mile time was 1:37-1/5. His latest win was pretty fast for 1-5/16 on turf (2:06-2/5).

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      PeteS 4 years ago

      I would like to mention one not mentioned here. My choice is ECLIPSE for being the greatest ever. Note that all these ponies mentioned here, including Man O' War, Black Caviar, Kincsem, Pharlap, Frankel and Secretariat all have Eclipse blood running through them. Eclipse was unbeaten like Kincsem and Frankel, winning 18/18, and they said of him "Eclipse first, the rest nowhere". The US awards for horse of the year are named after Eclipse also.

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      Charlie 4 years ago

      If that list was extended, where do you think Alydar would sit? I remember him being pretty good and if it weren't for Affirmed, probably would have won the triple crown.

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Shaun,

      As always, you make vaild points EXCEPT TWO which I must dispute. First & Foremost, Secretariat's legacy lives under NO CLOUD whatsoever. SEC did NOT...I repeat NOT take performance enhancing drugs. Like Frankel, he was a "freak of nature" and his 22 lb. heart (proven to be from the "X" gene) and 1,150 lb. muscular mass irrefutably prove that point. If SEC had taken any form of steroids, his massive heart would have shrunk over the years; that is an anatomical FACT, and medical experts confirm his heart showed no signs whatsoever of substance enhancement.

      Another factor strongly supporting SEC is his incredble weight. SEC was 1,100 to 1,150lbs throughout his 3 year old campaign or roughly 100 - 150 lbs heavier than the standard thoroughbred! It is this fact that makes me laugh when anti-SEC disclaimers point to the fact he never carried more than 126 lbs in a race. Do you really think an extra 6 - 10 lbs would have made a difference to SEC a s a 4 year-old when he was already dealing with an additional 10% - 15% body weight? The answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT! Considering the anatomical difference between a 3 and 4 year old thoroughbred is synonymous to a 15 and 21 human male, the additional weight for SEC would have been "rounding"!

      Please understand I am NOT dismissing Frankel's greatness. He is an absolute beast of a horse and the best on the planet as we speak. But over distances of 10 to 12 furlongs, Secretariat's unfathomable times and/or performances clearly support his "top of the heap" status. He galluped to two unofficial world records for 10 and 13 furlongs on a dirt track, ran what is considered the greatest single racing performance ever and embarassed 4, 5 and 6 year old G1 champion race horses on dirt, wet and dry turf and the mud....ALL AS A 3 YEAR-OLD!!!! Secondly, I firmly believe believe the issue with European racing continues to be the downgrading of time significance. It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to compare horses from various generations without some baramoter of performance, and while" times" are certainly not perfect, they do add some measurement of speed comparison. While track conditions and a race's "pace" certainly put a spin on the time factor, there is really no other measurement any racing enthusiast can effectively utilize to compare race horses. I have never been a big fan of "Timeform" ratings since it amounts to nothing but subjective analysis for the sake of hyperbole. Even though Andy Beyer re-calculated Secretariat's rating several years ago to a ridiculous high number (it escapes me at this time), I never use that angle in my debates even though it clearly supports "Big Red's" unquestionably place in horse racing history.

      Please understand I am a strng Frankel supporter and agree that he will go down as one of the greatest race horses ever, no questions asked! You make a GREAT point regarding his trainer being over-cautious because of his undefeated record. I wish Lucien Lauren and Penny Tweedy would have showed more caution with SEC. I firmly believe SEC's incredible ability made them believe he could overcome any obstacles including illness and limited training. We both know horses simply CANNOT perform at their expected level when dealing with illness and/or poor training, and both Lauren and Tweedy should be ashamed of themselves for succumbing to the political aspect of "having to" race SEC beacause of her investors, network TV pressure and the overall hyperbole surrounding Secretariat (there was no way Tweedy would "scratch" SEC before a race unless he was standing on 3 legs!).

      I close in stating that with both Frankle and SEC at 100% I firmly believe SEC would have bested him more than not in middle distance races. However, that is only my opinion and NOBODY will never really know with 100% certainty who would have reigned supreme. Yet with repsect to all-time ranking, Secretariat's world-class performances in North America's most significant races strongly support his highly regarded pinnacle staure.

      As always...best regards,

      Ron

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Oh and don't forget The following

      Frankel runs his races on undulating tracks, secretariat and other US horses runs there races on flat tracks .........

      Frankel always runs clean ......... US horse always run under the cloud of drugs ..........

      I wish Frankel was not unbeaten and had lost his first race, the longer an unbeaten run goes the more conservative the trainer or coach gets .

      I m sorry but times do mean nothing, most if not all record are set and held in the US , now this would seem strange if not damned right impossible, because as good as horse racing is in the US , horse racing around the world , particularly in Europe is and has been just as strong, horses are bought in the Us and sent to Europe and vice versa, so the breeding is mixed, this only leaves the stile of racing and the flat tracks , oh and yes the Use of drugs, ...... Even nothing horses in the US have held records, why because they are better then European horse .... No that would be stupid to believe ....... It's not a straight comparison, America is a stat driven sport nation , the rest of the world just sees and knows brilliance , it does not need to look at stats.

      When you are in the company of the greats you just know it

      I have every confidence that Frankel would beat the horses in the list at the top, with secretariat it would be a very interesting race ......

      You also forget at in the US the triple crown races start at 10f whereas in England they start at 8f ....... In the US Frankel would have started his 3 year old career at 10f and raced on flat regular tracks, definitely running on dirt and having the aid of drugs on occassions ........now how does that enable a comparison between his career in the England and a career in the US ...... As I said you don't need stats you just know when you see greatness ........

      Throughout the 60,s and 70's soviet and east German athletes used drugs and the records the set still last in many instances ....... But we all know the reason why .............. They were not playing on a level playing field ........... Any athlete coming from the soviet union or east germany in that period wether using drugs or not lived and lives under a cloud ...... US horse racing lives under that cloud and it will not be lifted until the US joins the rest of the equine world .......

      The horses at the top of this list while no doubt great horse live under at cloud ....... One thing Frankel can says is it's all my own work .......... I and other have no doubt if he had done his racing in the US he would have set all records a light .....

      Frankel is the deal and what ever we think and for the most part the racing fraternity all around the world including the U S agree

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Shaun, unfortunately, your outlandish statement that Frankel is the greatest horse ever is a far fetched assumption. While certainly a beast of a horse, I will give you SEVERAL "rock hard" reasons why he simply doesn't compare to Secretariat:

      1) It took Frankel nearly 4-1/2 years to run 10 furlongs! Are you kidding me??? Secretariat and a slew of other great horses (US, European and Australian) dominated at long distances at 3 years old. Considering that the anotomical difference between a 3 and 4 year old horse is synonymous to a 15 and 21 year old human male, it is obvious that Frankel's trainer has "pampered" him beyond comprehension. At 3 years old, Secretariat ran twice with illness at 9 furlongs and once at 12 furlongs without any training for 2 weeks! Obviously, those factors contributed to his losses while Frankel's ultra-conservative trainer kept him under serious containment until the age of 4+ years!

      2) Frankel's winning "turf" times at 8 furlongs simply wouldn't cut it against the premier horses over the past century, with many 1:36 - 1:37 "turf" times falling far below world class speed. Reviewing many of his racing times, it is obvious that other premier European horses have recorded far better times with their winning performances in the SAME races. You say "times" don't matter and Frankel was "cruising" but that doesn't cut the mustard. EVERY horse enthusiast says the same thing about their beloved thoroughbred but it typically winds up being a "copout". Secretariat "cruised" MANY races and was even hand ridden in the Belmont Stakes yet his world class times have still withstood the test of time, including TWO unofficial world records after 1/8 of a mile "gallups" AFTER the wire! NOBODY really knows for sure just how hard Frankel, Secretraiat or ANY horse for that matter ran in their races. As far as I am concerned, stating a horse was running on cruisue control is just another form of hyperbole used by its closest fans, and I have certainly been guilty on several occassions of having gone down this road.

      3) Nice try with your following statement: "Generally a horse’s ability is limited by his whereabouts in the speed-stamina spectrum. Horses have either one or the other (indeed a lot of horses I have encountered have had neither) or, in the case of middle distance horses, a blend of both but, until Frankel, never lots of both. What makes him unique is his ability to go a top class sprinter’s pace over distance"........... "Unique".......once again are you kidding me! Secretariat displayed the greatest combination of speed and stamina in thoroughbred history and his 1-1/2 mile times/performances in the Belmont and Man o' War stakes prove it. Also, Frankel runs ONE 10.5 furlong race at the age of 4.5 years and all of a sudden he is a long distance "sprinter"???

      4) Secretariat ran on dry dirt, in the rain slopped mud and on wet and dry turf (over distances up to 13 furlongs) while absolutely CRUSHING 4, 5 and 6 year old champion race horses as a 3 year old....I repeat as a 3 year old!!! As a 3 year old, Frankel's trainer was nursing him at 8 furlongs...I rest my case! Furthermore, Secretariat owns ALL 3 North American TC speed records for the 3 most promient North American races that have been run for over 140 years. This covers over 425 races and approximately 4,500 horses! That, my friend, is the mark of greatness and irrefutable proof that Secretariat's legacy will echo for eternity.

      Bottom line is ANYONE can make subjective statements about a horse claiming the title as "the greatest ever", but in Frankel's case, he still falls far short of Secretariat's supernatural brilliance. Also, I would pit such great thoroughbreds as Spectacular Bid, Ruffian, Sea Bird II, Man o' War, Dr. Fager, Nijinsky, Count Fleet, Citation, Sea the Stars, Swaps, Seattle Slew and Kelso against Frankel ANYWHERE...ANYTIME. I think it is time for you to look in the mirror and decide if you are actually trying to convince "others" of Frankel's all-time status or "yourself"!

      Ron

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      colinr52 4 years ago

      Cease the drivel about So you think, He is a good horse, that is simply it!!He is not to be classed anything but that,He can not be compared to past great horses racing in australia. so why do some people try to rate him equal or superior to a horse who has been rated the best horse in Europe since Brigidier Gerard,As someone said,Whats that stuff your'e smoking?

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Having just watched the video of Frankel destroy Farhh and st Nics Abbey over 1.2 miles at york again not only did the horse not get out of second gear, but Tom Queally his jockey took several furlongs to pull him up after the finishing line ................... oh my oh my this horse is truly the greatest ever ................. just what could he do if there was a horse good enough in the world to push him ................. probably destroy it as well

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Silk department ..... By the way your so called remarks about so you think and Frankels run at ascot fail to state that so you thinks race was on official good ground , whereas Frankel was running on good to soft ..... And never needs to get out of 2nd gear ..... Also so you think beat Farhh by 3 lengths, whereas Frankel beat him by 8 lengths over the same distance 1 mile 2 furlongs .... Again without getting out of 2 nd gear ....... I hope in his next race Frankel actually runs flat out because he would just blow the records apart ..... But unfortunately as no other horse can get close to him, so he will just cruz home in 2 nd gear again ....... so You Think ".......... so you thought ........ But you were wrong ...... Frankel just laughs at you

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Silk Department "......... So you think had his chance to turn up at York over 1 mile and 2 furlongs against Frankel and didn't, we all no what would have happened , he would have dispatched him the same way he did st Nicholas abbey who won the breeders cup turf last year ........ Frankel does beat the best ...... No disrespect to the US but they have no top middle distance horses at the moment ....... He won the 2000 Guinness which is a triple crown race and as older classic group one race there is ....... He has beat all the best milers, there are no class ones outside of Europe , he has beat .... No sorry destroyed last year breeders cup turf winner over 1 mile 2 furlong .....he runs he wins 6 furlongs, 1 mile, 1 mile 2 furlongs ...... There all the same to him ...... How about these so called great horses you talk about ..... Where ever they are ..... Turn up and race him over 6 furlongs, 1 mile, 1.2 miles ..... Or what ever ..... They won't because there trainer know what the result would be ........ Hardly anyone wants to race Frankel because they no it would just be for 2nd. If your even trying to suggest that so you think could be anything but a lead pony for Frankel, then you really are mad ....... Aiden o'brien his trainer knows the score.

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      Shaun 4 years ago

      Frankel is the result of a lightning strike of genetics that may not be repeated for 100 years

      Forget ratings, handicappers’ assessments or any other method by which you measure one racehorse against another, it is unlikely that the world in either this or any previous generation has ever seen a better racehorse than Frankel.

      Sir Henry Cecil’s colt did not need to be at his very best to win Wednesday’s Juddmonte International at York but, in coming home seven lengths clear of Farhh and St Nicholas Abbey, he proved to me that, although restricted to eight and 10 furlongs, had connections tried he could have won a Group One over any distance between six furlongs and a mile and a half, an incredible range for a racehorse.

      ‘Best ever’ needs putting into historical context. At the Battle of Buda in 1686, an encounter between the Holy League and Turkey which certainly didn’t trouble any of my history lessons, the Byerley Turk was captured among the spoil of war and eventually returned to his owner’s home near Knaresborough in Yorkshire - some 20 miles from the Knavesmire.

      There, before the arrival of the more influential Darley and Godolphin Arabians, the Byerley Turk was put to heavy-boned English hunter mares to produce the origins of the modern thoroughbred. In that respect Frankel visit to York was a return to his roots.

      Ever since man has sought to breed the perfect racehorse; beautifully conformed, powerful both in front and behind, deep of lung and large of heart, robust, sound, athletic, of sound temperament, and fast with a will to race and win.

      Generally a horse’s ability is limited by his whereabouts in the speed-stamina spectrum. Horses have either one or the other (indeed a lot of horses I have encountered have had neither) or, in the case of middle distance horses, a blend of both but, until Frankel, never lots of both. What makes him unique is his ability to go a top class sprinter’s pace over distance.

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      Franchise01 4 years ago

      Hey Wally...if Citation would have beaten Secretariat 10 out of 10 races, why did CITATION'S OWN JOCKEY state Secretariat was the greatest horse he ever saw? I guess you know more than Eddie Arcaro who just happened to ride Citation his entire 3 year-old season! Next time, you might want to engage your brain before you engear your mouth before making ludicrous statements. ANYONE who says ANY horse would best SEC 10 out of 10 times is an absolute idiot!

      Ron

      Ron

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      Wally Hefner 4 years ago

      What about Citation? Citation and Native Dancer could have beaten Secretariat 10 out of 10 races. Why is Man of War second?? WallyHefner