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Hotmail Fails To Deliver Up To 81% Of All Attachment Emails

Updated on March 20, 2011

If Intent Can Be Proven, Microsoft Could Face Millions Of Mail Fraud Charges

Microsoft's market capitalization is approximately $300 billion dollars. Let's put that into a bit of perspective. That's enough money to feed and provide medical care for every single AIDS orphan in Africa for 227 years. To put it another way, it's a pile of stacked $100 bills 10 feet wide, 24 feet deep and 38 stories high.

You would think that someone in Redmond, Washington could take time out from counting all that money to actually do something to earn it? Like maybe fix the ridiculously obvious and painful bugs that have been haunting Microsoft users not since the launch of Vista, not since the launch of XP, not since the launch of Win 2000, not since the launch of ME, but since before the launch of Windows 98?

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Haha, you say! What bug could possibly have survived Microsoft's insecticide for so long? Since Microsoft took over Hotmail in January 1998, almost a full decade ago, Hotmail users have decried the loss of attachment emails. For the uninitiated, here's how it works.

Whether you are:

- Sending from a Hotmail account to another Hotmail or any other email address

and

- Receiving from another Hotmail account or any other email address to your Hotmail account

...you will lose many of your attachments. The emails simply vanish in transit. No mailer daemon, no bounces, no nothing. Gone like Bill Gates' sex appeal.

Microsoft has forever denied this. Hotmail's delivery statistics are next to perfect and there is no discrimination against attachments, they've said for almost a decade. And for almost a decade they have been making millions of Gigabytes of documents, spreadsheets and photos of grandma's quilts disappear.

On the heels of my controversial Mac Plus Beats AMD Dual Core Test which raised quite a ruckus around the Internet, I figured it was time to drag Hotmail kicking and screaming into the secret laboratory and concoct a perfectly fair test that it was up to Hotmail to succeed at or fail.

I created one hundred emails. Each one had a different attachment. They were all .txt, .rtf, .doc, .jpg, .xls, or .ppt and of random sizes, the smallest being a 6K .txt and the largest a 1.9MB .ppt.

These one hundred emails were split up into five groups of twenty each.

Two different Hotmail accounts were used, let's call them Hotmail-1 and Hotmail-2.

Two different "generic" ISPs email accounts were used in different locations on different servers, again, ISP-1 and ISP-2. To make it perfectly fair, ISP-1 was a Canadian provider in Ontario and ISP-2 an American provider in California.

To allow for different traffic patterns, these times were chosen for the testing, all times Eastern.

9 am Thursday

Noon Friday

3 pm Saturday

6 pm Sunday

9 pm Monday

Five different originating computers were used, one for each day. Each PC was linked to the net via a different ISP, so five different ISPs were used in total to send and receive the files.

Each day, I would log onto Hotmail-1 and send/receive that day's twenty emails to Hotmail-2, ISP-1 and ISP-2. Then I would log onto Hotmail-2 and send/receive that day's twenty emails to Hotmail-1, ISP-1 and ISP-2. Then I would log onto ISP-1 and send/receive that day's twenty emails to ISP-2, Hotmail-1 and Hotmail-2. And finally I would log onto ISP-2 and send/receive that day's twenty emails to ISP-1, Hotmail-1 and Hotmail-2. Only the relevant web interfaces were used, no email clients as Outlook, Thunderbird, etc.

This schedule was determined to make it as fair as possible. There is no way that the delivery or lack thereof was caused by a particular ISP, as we used five completely independent ones from five locations. Neither could it be said that we only sent during peak times as we spread out our sends across five days and at various times of the day. Each email was sent separately, no ccs or bccs. The test was devised to be as unbiased as possible. Either the emails would be delivered or they wouldn't.

Each email was given 48 hours for delivery. If it was not delivered in that time then it was considered Vanished. Interestingly only one email fell into this group, being delivered after 72 hours from Hotmail-2 to ISP-1.

The final results bore out the "conventional wisdom." If emails were donuts, Hotmail would be HomerSimpsonMail. I don't need to reiterate the figures, there they are in blue and red. But for a Hotmail account to destroy up to 81% of all emails with attachments prior to their delivery to a "generic" ISP email account is nothing short of absurd, as these Hotmail accounts were not the free variety, but the fully paid ones. Compare those figures to the ones where the generic ISP email accounts exchanged emails with attachments and you will clearly see the difference. The worst performance was in making 2% Vanish.

It has long been suspected that there is a silent policy that makes Hotmail automatically delete the majority of attachments to save on bandwidth and internal disk space. Therefore it really doesn't matter if every client has access to 2GB of storage since they don't deliver the attachments to fill that space up anyway. If that truly is the case, then Microsoft may be liable for several hundred million cases of conspiracy and mail fraud.

Hotmail is no longer a free only service where you get what you pay for. There is simply no excuse for ripping off users who have paid a significant fee to obtain the reliability and confidence which the Microsoft brand should deliver. Either that, or it may be time to ask the DOJ to step in and investigate what could be a multi-billion dollar scam.

 

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    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto

      All the majors are guilty of this to some extent. I have been contemplating doing a massive test with all the majors with thousands of emails sent from four separate IPs located all over the world. We'll see if I get around to it what the results will be.

    • profile image

      imnotrich 7 years ago

      Some years ago hotmail deleted the contents of my entire inbox - but it didn't appear in my trash. Tech support tried to say that I had done it. WRONG!

      The insidious thing about missing e-mails, besides the fact they leave no trace is...who has those photos and attachments now and what are they doing with them?

      Next, you should check gmail's file attachment disappearance rate. I had 6 of them disappear this weekend, but at least the recipient got the empty e-mail so we knew to try again.

    • adorababy profile image

      adorababy 7 years ago from Syracuse, NY

      Thank you for the heads up. I do not actually use hotmail because it's very difficult to sign up for an account.

    • Hal Licino profile image
      Author

      Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto

      I AGREE!

    • AlanSwenson profile image

      AlanSwenson 7 years ago from Las Vegas, NV

      This is why I do not use hotmail!!! Microsoft hates human beings.

    • Hal Licino profile image
      Author

      Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto

      Hi Johannes, by all means, thanks for the link! :)

    • profile image

      Johannes 7 years ago

      Hi Hal,

      Thank you for your post.

      I added a reference to it in an article I just wrote.

      (Drop me a line in case you don’t like being linked!)

      Cheers!

      10 reasons why not to use Hotmail:

      http://www.johannes-eva.net/index.php?page=2010-01...

    • Hal Licino profile image
      Author

      Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto

      Completely erroneous. Zipping files does not give them any better chance of being delivered.

    • profile image

      Kosovar 7 years ago

      Listen guys

      If you want to Send an email with a picture or any document.Before you send the file Compress (Zip) the file,and then Atach it to your Hotmail and it's ready to be sent.

      This is a very simple step,and your E-mail is sent,and you will never see any Delivery Failure in your Hotmail.

      It's a safe way,so Give it a try.I allways do it in this way,and No Delivery Failure will be there.

      Best Regards : Lulzim Abdyli ; Rep. Kosovo

    • Hal Licino profile image
      Author

      Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto

      Wow, that's a great reason to ditch Qwest! :)

    • profile image

      Cindy 7 years ago

      I use Qwest DSL and they use hotmail to run their q.com emails - so paid, but still hotmail!

    • Hal Licino profile image
      Author

      Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto

      Good. You're entitled to your opinion even though there is no evidence whatsoever to support it. :)

    • profile image

      Postmaster 7 years ago

      I still think that hotmail is the best provider on email service,

    • Hal Licino profile image
      Author

      Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto

      Yeah, it's hard to believe that it's as bad as it is... still after all these years!

    • ajparker profile image

      ajparker 8 years ago from North Carolina

      I used to use hotmail on occasion, but there were too many annoyances with it. Mistagged junk was just one of the headaches I remember with it.

    • profile image

      me 8 years ago

      I myself have never experienced a single problem with hotmail going on 9 yrs now

      maybe i'm lucky, who knows, I have sent an email on yahoo occasionally an it seemed to take forever I use both, but primarily the yahoo addy is used for website registrations and the like, better spam filters

    • Shirley Anderson profile image

      Shirley Anderson 8 years ago from Ontario, Canada

      Hal, I seem to get at least most of my hotmail mail, but my PAID sympatico mail doesn't reach me a lot of the time. I've had clients claim that they have never received my emails, as well.

      Through hotmail though, I did receive an email from my mom a week after she died. Don't think that didn't creep me out a little.

    • profile image

      devicepedia  8 years ago

      I usually use gmail and yahoo mail, but anyways, thanks for the info.

    • thebenro profile image

      thebenro 9 years ago from Chicago

      So glad i ditched hotmail years ago!

    • Hal Licino profile image
      Author

      Hal Licino 9 years ago from Toronto

      The amazing thing is that Microsoft has never lifted a finger to fix it, which leads even more credence to the belief that it is fully intentional.

    • profile image

      easybullet 9 years ago

      this has been happening to me for years!! I KNOW FOR A FACT that certain attatchments just disappear. i notice that it happens from certain addresses only. and only at certain times. I have no idea why, but there is no postmaster and no one is the wiser. the sender believes the message is sent and the recipient hasn't a clue there was a mail for him/her.

      its just another reason to not use hotmail,,, just a shame that I opened this account 9 years ago and need to keep the address!!

    • tcnixon profile image

      tcnixon 9 years ago from California

      I just had a similar problem this week with my Comcast account. No matter what the sender did, it was not going to make its way through. Finally, had to send it to my Gmail account.

    • profile image

      Thames Cruises 9 years ago

      I completely agree with you. I think hotmail is a complete joke!

    • profile image

      bestimtools 9 years ago

      I really welcome that big email companies try to fight spam. But very often they do it in a strange and funny way, cutting their users OFF legal possibility to get what they deserve.

      I am an internet marketer and many people join my lists (surely vie double opt in procedure). And I know from my personal experience that usually an average user with Hotmail email has pretty high chances to get problems when joining the list, because Hotmail will block the automatic message sent from me to make sure that a subscriber is a real human being that wants to subscribe and get info from me and can click the confirmation link (this is what double opt in is about - these are the legal and etiquette requirements in the net).

      And, Hotmail is very likely to block portion of these automatic emails that ask a potential subscriber to click the subscription activation link.

      I am not the one to experience these problems. I saw that some Internet marketers even explicitely write like "If you are Hotmail user, please register us from another email account, because..."

      I think big brands must keep fighting the spam and do that in a smart way. They have enough money to do that.

    • profile image

      John 9 years ago

      Very well written, I enjoyed reading this article.

    • profile image

      Hotmailuser 9 years ago

      I had a hotmail account for the last 6+ years with several emails. Today suddenly I found that all my emails were DELETED from my account. I did NOT delete it.

      Does anyone has any clue how this would have happened? Does Microsoft deletes emails from users account without users permission.

      Your reply is highly appreciated- please reply to vpampatt@yahoo.com

    • profile image

      Dan 9 years ago

      Hotmail is a joke! Microsoft is a joke! Just a matter of time before Apple take over and I can't wait. Been a pc users for my whole life and now I can't take anymore. Windows, Hotmail, Live, MSN and Microsoft all suck. Good hub ;-)

    • profile image

      Shannon 9 years ago

      I must admit that I never liked hotmail anyways. I've always used outlook express until the past few years which I switched everything over to gmail. I absolutely love gmail. Not only does it do a wonderful job at managing emails, they also give you a load of space.

      ~Shannon

    • profile image

      VinceSamios 9 years ago from Australia

      Hotmail is good for one thing, and one thing only... Catching all the emails people still send to my old address....

    • JonnyBRock profile image

      JonnyBRock 9 years ago from New York City

      This doesn't surprise me too much. What does surprise me is that anyone still uses hotmail! :)

    • profile image

      Akira 9 years ago

      Have to say I use Hotmail a lot and have very few complaints.

    • solarshingles profile image

      solarshingles 9 years ago from london

      I've never used it. I don't like Microsoft's software at all, even though it is such a big corporation. It have to be something very wrong with that company, if they treat their customers so badly, though.

    • profile image

      Matt 9 years ago

      Firstly, to all the people going "LIAR! I NEVER lose emails" - no-one is saying that Hotmail eats e-mails for *all* accounts, maybe it is just possible that some (appears to be the older accounts from comments seen here) aren't as badly treated as others.

      I'm a network manager at a school and we see the same problems all the time with students e-mailing work to/from hotmail and it never arriving at the school's e-mail system - anything we send outbound is accepted by Hotmail's SMTP servers (with a 250 OK) but occasionally never arrives in the user's accounts. I've done some testing and it did appear to be partially dependant on the client used (Outlook 2003 vs Outlook Web Access (Exchange's webmail) and it was dropping the OWA ones more) but nothing consistent.

      With inbound mail, the hotmail SMTP servers never even attempt to connect to either of our MXes, and in some cases the messages aren't even saved in the Hotmail 'Sent Items' folder.

      I've not investigated the difference in reliability with attachment vs no-attachment, however it does seem to be fairly random in my experience.

      I also run a small ISP, and we (and other small ISPs we've been talking to) have the same problems in sending *to* hotmail - 250 OK received, then message vanishes. The SNDS system they provide for ISPs to see what is being blocked/delivered also shows 0 blocked 0 delivered for us all - useless!

      Matt

    • profile image

      Bill 9 years ago

      This is disturbing information. One of the things I do is teach the visitors to my site how to connect Hotmail to Outlook. Thanks for the warning.

      --Bill

    • profile image

      Runsrealfast 9 years ago

      Just out of curiosity, was the possiblity that some of the emails were believed to be spam taken into account. I wonder if that is part of it?

    • profile image

      Janice 9 years ago

      I have been using Hotmail as my primary personal and business e-mail account for almost 8 years. I initially signed up in April 1999. I have had excellent reliability. I don't know what you are talking about or why you would want to distribute misinformation. I hate when that happens.

    • profile image

      Karl 9 years ago

      I will freely admit, I have had a lot of fun reading these comments, and have laughed quite a lot. I am not going to tell you that you are a liar, as I have no reason to, and I'm not going to praise your intelligence, as I am sure you know how intelligent you are...

      In my experience, I have only ever once lost emails, and that was sending "to" a hotmail account. Every hotmail account, not just one. This, after investigation was down to rDNS. The email I was sending from was a domain name on a corporate server, purchased with email accounts. If pinged, the mail server used (for example, lets say: mail.outserver.com) would give the IP Address (i.e. 212.221.112.21). If you pinged the IP address, asking to resolve to a DNS name, it would come back as something like no-dns-212-221-112-21.theisp.net.

      Hotmail reads the DNS to IP, and the reverse, IP to DNS. If the two DO NOT match, Hotmail hates is, and 99% of the time thinks it is spam and rejects it, sometimes without a bounce-back.

      As I said, this has been my only experience, and could account for some of the issues brought up in the comments, as not all ISP will give Reverse DNS unless you specifically ask for it, AND pay for it, as they use their generic no-dns tags. In addition, ISP's release their static IP Addresses in batches to business clients. The pool of IP address may be 212.221.112.20-29 for example. "If" a spam server of an ISP detects that .23 is blacklisted for spam, they sometimes block that whole IP Pool. I have had personal experince with this and two weeks of trying to convince an ISP that our mail servers were not Dynamic IP Address's of spam, but statically assigned as a pool.

      Had the same issue with @aol.com email addresses.

      Other than this, I have personally had no problems with Hotmail. The only thing I could think of is that a new account was set up, fr testing purposes, a lot of mail was sent out, all with attatchments, and hotmail's automated servers said, "ahah, a new spammer! Let's get him, boys!" and got personal with your test. This is the only explaination I can think of as it would be "out of the ordinary" in "alot" not, all, but alot of cases for a new account to be set up, and all that mail to come shifting out the door all at once. I could be wrong, as it is only a suggestion.

      Any comments? You can email me at karl@buonacorsi.com where I use Hotmail, quite happily, to receive my domain emails now.

    • profile image

      ang3lz 9 years ago

      Nice information. Keep up the good work. People can learn a lot from you!

    • teluguswan profile image

      teluguswan 9 years ago

      I think the problem is with the technology what they are doing or working with. i.e it is taking much bandwidth to make more userfriendly but forgetting the base needs of people. Just now people started to use this email as their daily need after postal mail. So they have to work hard

    • profile image

      Education Articles 9 years ago

      If anyone could work out the deliverability of this sort of thing, you'd think it would be Microsoft. Why don't they invest some of their hard earned to sort this issue out (and therefore build value in their service), instead of pursuing pointless law suits over minor copyright infringement?

      Great article, thanks for exposing them. - Paul

    • Misha profile image

      Misha 9 years ago from DC Area

      LOL How come they are still afloat? They can't be THAT terrible, people would have dumped them long ago... Never used them myself, though - been with yahoo from the start, and added gmail to it recently... But my wife uses them as her regular personal account, and she never complained...

    • profile image

      Daniels 9 years ago

      Well, here's another Hotmail issue:

      The first email from hotmail to my work address disappears. An email from my work address to hotmail is received. A reply at the received mail is received at my work address. Every next email from hotmail to my work address is received. I tried this with the 3 domains I got overhere and the final conclusion was that every first mail to a domain disappears. I found this interesting article: http://www.securepoint.com/lists/html/Qmail-LDAP/2...

    • bwsot7m profile image

      bwsot7m 9 years ago from Toronto

      One of the list of reasons why I've switched to gMail. Moreover, if i have any friend that have a hotmail and a secondary address, I usually send it to the secondary.

      I'm an email snob like that.

    • profile image

      munroenet 9 years ago

      Hotmail is not what is used to be. If you are looking for a new E-Mail address i suggest this hub review on The 4 major email clients:

      http://hubpages.com/hub/What_EMail_Service_Should_...

      Great hub Hal Linco

      Munroenet

    • rrd257r profile image

      rrd257r 9 years ago from NY

      I love the post; unfortunatly I must question your methods. I have never experienced even close to the amount of "vanished" emails you claim to have. I constantly send back and forth from my business email to hotmail and even have my business email auto forwarded to hotmail (of course I keep the message stored on the server for a # of days). All but one time my messages as well as attachments have come through. To post something such as this really throws me off. If it were true it would be very informative and helpful, but through my own experience, and after consulting with several coworkers from our IT department I can only come to the assumption that you have some sort of personal vendetta against hotmail. No one; and I've asked at least 30 informed individuals at this point, have experienced anything remotely close to your results. I'd ask that you provide more detail as to how your "experiment" panned out, as this is obviously flawed; although certainly worth looking further into.

    • profile image

      a few more facts 9 years ago

      I used to have one of those free hotmail accts in order to use it's instant messaging function, until my computer broke down for a month and they deleted my spam-stuffed acct because i couldn't keep up with filtering the all the inbound junk, which is neither here nor there.

      I'm involved with a company that does business online, and we have ongoing issues with yahoo, hotmail accounts, and their canadian variant. We dont use attachments, but hotmail has us classified as a spamming source even though all we send out is a verification and upgrade email reply on request and currently don't transmit a newsletter. I think it would be of more interest and to the point if someone looked at why hotmail.uk works and incountry hotmail doesn't, attachments and address book entires notwithstanding.

    • profile image

      Michael 9 years ago

      Find the blog interesting as one of the customers we support was trying to send encrypted pdfs through email and only hotmail accounts would fail. Yahoo accounts and accounts to a business email would work, but everytime we tried to send to Hotmail, it would fail.

    • profile image

      Steve 9 years ago

      Not sure about my attachments getting through, but how about Microsoft's recent stellar effort to "update" Hotmail? All my nicknames in my contact list no longer work (have to scroll down the long list and click on the recipient instead of just typing the short nickname), the print function is completely screwed (I get the previous email I opened in the print box instead of the one I want to print), I can't access other MSN sites like Money directly from the Hotmail page (so that I am logged in when I want to check my portfolio) anymore, and there is no way to get any feedback to Microsoft that I can figure out. And that is on my Windows PC, I have an Apple at home where I can't even reply to emails as it doesn't get the address off the mail I want to reply to and selecting the recipient from my contact list doesn't work either, the only way is to copy and paste the recipient email from the incoming. All in all a bad product made much worse, I am switching to gmail despite the hassle of telling everybody a new mail address.

    • profile image

      808admin 10 years ago

      Nice Job. Here's another little example for you.

      I have a BofA account and request my statements to be emailed to me. They invariably have failed for a year and bank of america sends me a "failed delivery attempt" notification of this every month. It never ends up in the spam forlder or anything, Just flat out rejected. Thanks!

    • Hal Licino profile image
      Author

      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      Thank you all, and I mean each and every single person, who has supported my test results with your real life examples. Not only do I thoroughly appreciate your time and effort, but it justifies the fact that Microsoft should be called to task in a court of law to justify their actions!

    • profile image

      Wang VS 10 years ago

      Thank you, Hal, for this small but rigorous test. Don't let the morons and idiots get to you. For some reason this page has attracted some of the worst clueless nitwits and shills the Internet has to offer. What's scary is to think that those people are around us in real life, pretending to be sane, functional individuals.

      We have had trouble with Hotmail, too. Our CEO uses it because he must, must have easy browser access to email from anywhere at any time. Not long ago I was in IM with him, forwarding a message under discussion to his hotmail mailbox. It didn't arrive. I sent it again, and again, maybe a total of 20 times. It never arrived. I sent a different message; it did arrive. This indicated to me that Hotmail's dropping of messages is dependent on content. I doubt it's a filter; more likely it's a data-dependent processing problem -- hotmail chokes on certain char sequences. Internal conversions of message formats and processing bugs in the inbound and outbound gateways could explain the differences in percentages in your various scenarios. I think, though, that it is not probablistic -- I think that certain messages will always disappear no matter how many times they are sent or received by Hotmail.

      A few observations:

      1. Contrary to what many of your commentators seem to believe, it is not that easy to tell that one's inbound or outbound messages are being dropped. Many inbound messages are not explicitly expected, and so their disappearance is invisible to the operator of the destination mailbox. Many outbound messages have no explicit followup and their disappearance is similarly invisible to the sender if no bounce occurs. The conduct of person-to-person business email is more likely to reveal indications of lost messages than is casual non-business use of email. Even so, it took an incident in which two of us were communicating by IM outside email, one saying, "Forward me a copy of that," the other saying, "OK, sent," and the other saying, "Hasn't arrived" for us to develop the one confirmed case of hotmail eating email. Most lost email isn't visible... it has delayed and indirect consequences.

      2. Most of the comments posted here that include, "I am not an xxxxx, but..." indicate a very bad sort of thinking and expression that is all too common on the Internet. If you're not an xxxxx, then STFU, because you probably don't know what you're talking about.

      3. All the comments about routing and ISPs indicate an abysmal ignorance of how email works. Email moves from origin to destination by a fail-safe protocol. Assuming the sender's mail server is RFC compliant, the only way outbound email just disappears is if the destination mail server accepts it but then makes it disappear. If the originating mail server can't hand it off to the destination mail server, the sender will receive a delivery failure message from his own mail server. This is true no matter how screwed up the destination mail server may be, and is true no matter how many intermediaries relay the message.

      4. It may come as a rude shock to the many amateur legal commentators here, but not only is the use of the U.S. Mail not a necessary element in the mail and wire fraud statutes, but the U.S. Postal System's Inspectors will investigate all forms of non-delivery and fraudulent conduct of remote commerce whether or not the U.S. Mail is involved anywhere in the process. In the cited cases of eBay scams in which sellers actually deliver a photo snapshot of the item instead of the item itself, the U.S. Postal Inspection Service will accept and invesigate such complaints even though the item was purchased over the Internet and the item was shipped (or not shipped) via, say, UPS or FedEx.

      5. The people calling you names and attacking you for your test are just very sick puppies. You shouldn't let them get under your skin. If I were you I would ruthlessly delete and ban them, because they do not contribute anything worthwhile to the discussion. They are like a small crowd of lunatics screaming at top volume while you're trying to take reasonable questions from a large audience you have just addressed.

      6. To the several people who claim they have used Hotmail for years and have never lost anything, I say you obviously can't tell what you may have invisibly lost. Almost no one follows up each and every inbound and outbound message with additional messages to confirm receipt. Detection is more likely in business, where one party says, "I'm going to send you the Purchase Order" and the other party says, "Where is it? I haven't received it." If those control messages are also subject to silent loss, it gets more complicated and message loss may be mistaken for an unwillingness to do business -- "I guess they just don't want to do business with us after all."

      7. All those speaking of email attachments should step back and consider that they probably don't have a clue what their email client is actually doing. In email formats there are inclusions and attachments, and MIME blocks. The user of an email client usually has no visibility nor knowledge of exactly how his email client is doing things. There are quite a lot of variations, almost all of them invisible to the user. Old-fashioned mail servers dont' have to care -- as long as the gross format is compliant, they can receive, store, or forward messages no matter what the content. New twists like examining inbound messages for virii and whatnot bring into the mix the active interpretation of email content by programs other than the end user email client. The possible consequences of stupid programming are endless, and silent disappearance of messages is probably one of the most likely outcomes.

      8. Microsoft is, in my opinion, the most flagrant violator of Internet standards. This became very apparent with the early proliferation of Outlook and Outlook Express, with phantom binary attachments containing garbage, and text lines longer than is permissible in Internet mail. I received one such today, in which line breaks were used as paragraph breaks, leaving entire paragraphs as individual lines, often becoming truncated at the 2048-char Internet line limit.

      Microsoft's Web IIS servers brought a new kind of server misbehavior to the Internet, something never seen before. They are the only Web servers I have ever seen that can simply fail to return anything at all, leaving the browser spinning until it times out. All other Web servers I have ever contacted (and the one I wrote) always return SOMETHING. It's a requrement in what pass for Internet standards.

      --

      Thanks again, Hal. The fact that more needs to be done doesn't diminish in any way what you have done. It's a good start, and confirms that there is a problem with Hotmail, as many of us have long suspected and a few have confirmed in very limited circumstances. Keep up the good work.

    • profile image

      volter 10 years ago

      i've used hotmail since they were taken over by microsoft, and even though i hate it, i have to say, my mail ALWAYS gets to me, with attachments in place. and i might add, it's the free account i use.

      i'm thinking there has to have been something wrong with your test.

    • profile image

      scooter 10 years ago

      I have run into problem after problem with attachments going to hotmail accounts. Whenever I follow them up to find out why I didn't get an answer, the response is invariably the same. NOT RECEIVED. How can this be fixed?

      It doesn't seem to happen with near the same frequency without attachments.

    • profile image

      Blah 10 years ago

      Just out of interest what bays were you on?

      I think its people on common bays (servers) that have all the issues

    • profile image

      Gurn 10 years ago

      never had a problem receiving attachments with hotmail.

      But your objective and professional reporting style convinced me completely!

      got enough of an ax to grind?

    • geordiewhiz profile image

      geordiewhiz 10 years ago

      Great experiment even greater post! It was something i had long suspected but never quite put my finger on. Keep up the great posts

    • profile image

      Try This 10 years ago

      1. Sign-out hotmail account 2. Sign-in again with (v) "Save my email" check box3. Download to hearts content

    • profile image

      Chris 10 years ago

      I signed up for hotmail long before it was a Microsoft product and I definitely agree with this. At one stage I was losing so much email from some of the mail servers I operate to hotmail that I emailed them asking if I had been blacklisted as an open mail relay.

      +3649213694 for "If you're not getting the mail, how do you know you're not getting it?"

      I sent hundreds of test emails from other servers to my hotmail account to verify external accessibility and was questioning my configs until I realised they were fine and hotmail was eating them.

    • profile image

      Karl 10 years ago

      I duplicated your experiment and came to very similar conclusions. Thanks again for the heads up from your friends @ http://www.askTheAdmin.com!!!!!

    • profile image

      A webmaster says 10 years ago

      Hotmail not only loses many attachments going back and forth with other ISPs, but it limits the number of attachments too, without telling users what do to do succeed. Generally, 3 attachments at a time seems to work for images in recent years. Worse, hotmail addresses randomly bounce with no-such-account messages, when the following day the same messages to the same addresses go through. The problems started when Microsoft took over and they continue. Hotmail is less reliable than any email service I know of. Hotmail users have a false sense of reliability because they don't see the bounces, everyone else does. I get 30,000 email messages per year or so, most with image attachments, and the problems are obvious from my POV.

    • profile image

      Jake 10 years ago

      Response to all that say the emails were sent to a spam folder:

      I've always known hotmail to have annoying spam protection which will send many clean emails to my spam folder.

      However, the study proves this couldn't be the case. The user sent emails from his hotmail account to his ISP-1 and ISP-2, and emails were still lost. Hotmail's aggressive virus protection features couldn't have been the cause of this, because the emails weren't being received on a hotmail account.

      Of course, the ISP email addresses could have been marking the emails as spam too, but the statistics again prove that couldn't be the case. When sending an email from ISP-1 to ISP-2 and viceversa, the user loses next to no emails. Therefore, the user couldn't have been losing emails due to spam protection, because he only lost the emails when they were outgoing from a hotmail account, but not from another ISP account.

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      A grad student 10 years ago

      This sounds like the kind of exercise I will do when determining the dissertation project:

      a) a test to see if this is really a good question/problem

      b) a test to see if this question/problem can be answered in a reasonable grad-school timescale with grad-school resources.

      So, before my advisor commits to 3-4 of a project, he wants to see if my idea passes these two tests.

      I think your test passes both parts. If you get a group together, or someone has already started to take this more seriously, I want to get on board!

    • profile image

      vaporland 10 years ago

      Great post, amazing how many idiots and losers cannot comprehend American English. My wife is from the U.K. and is always reminding me that there is a difference!

      hotmail = loser

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      Steve 10 years ago

      People don't want to switch mail providers... its effort to let people know that you are changing your address, mailing lists all have to be changed etc etc. If there was a simple 'switcher' I'm positive more people would. I set my sister up on gmail but she still uses hotmail... despite admitting gmail is way better.

      I suppose you could always forward all mail to the new address, but then there's the hotmail 30-day-no-logon-timeout bull...

      Useless service (and you cant even get it via POP/an external client these days unless you get the 'special' account - well last time i checked)

    • profile image

      The Odd Byte 10 years ago

      OK - I'm puzzled...

      I've never had a hotmail account, so I have no personal experience to apply to your experiment. Therefore I asked some friends who do use hotmail, and EVERY ONE OF THEM made comments similar to those above - "I've had a hotmail account for X years & regularly loose emails" Mind you, none of them have experienced losses as high as yours, but they all admitted readily to losses.

      My response to all these people... WHY??? If I had an email account that lost my emails, I'd close it and go somewhere else real fast! Why do you stay with hotmail?

      If every hotmail user who lost an email left hotmail & went elsewhere, either MS would fix it, or no-one would be left using hotmail. In either case the problem would be solved.

    • profile image

      Interesting 10 years ago

      As a long time and regular Hotmail user I found your test results to be very interesting. While to my knowledge I have never experienced this problem it is still cause for concern. To test your results for myself I took a very small sample of 4 messages with attachments and sent then from Hotmail Account 1, 2 and 3 and IMAP account 1 to Gotmail account X usoing first an email client (WLM) and all four messages and attachments came through fine. Then I tried sending 4 emails from my IMAP account to Hotmail account 1 using the ISP's web interface and again all 4 messages were received. I used a combination of doc, jpg, and pdf files in my small experiment. I'm not disputing your results but I can't seem to replicate them using a small sample. It would be interesting if others responding would do some small tests themselves to see what results they get. My Hotmail accounts are paid accounts as well so not sure why I would get a 100% success rate when you obtained an 80+% failure rate. Again my test was not nearly as exhaustive as yours but it showed me that my own experience seems to be different than yours.

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      A Real Sysadmin 10 years ago

      Some of the commenters here seem to think all undelivered email should generate a non-delivery notice. I'd just like to point out how wildly impractical that is. If you believe recent figures, 75% or more of email is spam, and almost all of that is sent using forged or nonexistant return addresses. If you can generate a rejection before the end of the SMTP conversation, great. Otherwise, generating a bounce for these messages accomplishes several things: 1) Makes your mail server look like a spam-generating entity 2) Amplifies the spamming effect by hammering some bunch of hapless users whose email addresses were appropriated by a spammer with a bunch of rejection notices 3) Uses up your server resources and bandwidth for email nobody cares about or wants 4) Quite possibly generates a bounce that will itself bounce because the address for which it is destined is invalid... and that will bounce, generating another bounce... In other words, you're wasting everyone else's resources as well as your own. For those reasons, expecting non-delivery reports on messages deemed spam (or virus-laden, or whatever) is just unrealistic.

      81% seems awfully high, but I haven't got the data (or desire) to refute it. Interesting work.

    • profile image

      Jonathan Stein 10 years ago

      Hal,

      You and several others seem to be pissed at me, so I've posted a followup at my "hapless blog". I liked the phrase so much I bought happlessblog.com. I wonder if I'll ever use it?

      http://opinionone.blogspot.com/2007/07/followup-wo...

      Yep, another shamess link-building attempt. Well, it's working! :P

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      Gort, your experience is very similar to mine and many of the people I know who use hotmail. That was the primary driving force behind my doing this test. I also wonder why I can't get an attachment of a photo of the beach, but I can certainly get 50 offers to BuY vIaGrA! Thanks for the input.

      Yannick, I'm all for reproducibility (except with my gf where we practice planned parenthood heheheh) but I think that it is fundamentally wrong to mess with parameters that the average Joe Hotmail can't and won't do. It will skew the results to meaninglessness, IMHO. I'm also all for supporting any effort that can get to the bottom of what this mysterious attachment eating function is, so all I can say is more power to you. If you can figure it out your way, you will have my unending gratitude.

      Now I'm gonna catch some shuteye. See ya all in the mornin'! Bye!

    • profile image

      Yannick Gingras 10 years ago

      My whole point is that with reproducibility we can pin point the problem. Is it that I have to much text in my messages and that the emails that are dropped just have "Yo check this out?" Is it that 500k jpegs are fine and that Hotmail's virus filter actually chokes half of the time on power points? With a reproducible methodology you can tweak one parameter at the time until you know what goes wrong.

    • profile image

      Gort 10 years ago

      I honestly can't believe that ANYONE that posted here claiming only a 1-2% loss rate of attachments loss via hotmail isn't fibbing a bit.

      I've had a hotmail account for about 8 years. For about the past 3 years or so, I've considered myself lucky to get 3/4 of the email sent to my hotmail address. As far as attachments go, if it only dropped 81% of them, I'd almost be happy. And to all the smarties, they're not in my junk mail folder. Hotmail IS pretty good at delivering the PR0N spam, though. :-(

      Thank goodness for gmail...

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      Tepid, the whole point is to find out why real humans are not getting their attachments and that is why I don't agree with Yan's scripting. When you look at what A Friend and ScaryFast have recently stated, it does leave an interesting trail that points at some sort of nefarious "something" happening inside the Hotmail servers.

    • profile image

      tepid 10 years ago

      Still, Yan's script does show that emails can get through with high success. That may indicate that the problem is not with the mail servers themselves but rather with the web interface or some other part of Hotmail's setup. It may be that sending through the mail interface is what fails. Of course, the nature of the attachments may be a factor as well.

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      A Friend, thank you for the thoughtful analysis. Yes, you are absolutely correct and a glance at the charts will prove that the 81% is the highest data loss, not the median value. That is why in the title I used "Up To 81%."

      Yannick, your methodology is completely skewed. You're using scripts, and configuring Exim with "smarthost", and doing all sorts of crazy things that the average Hotmail user wouldn't even know how to spell, let alone use. It's funny how you criticize my methodology then apply a pocket protector, propeller beanie nerd overkill approach that negates your efforts. The whole idea is to use Hotmail the way real people use it, not programmer megageeks! :)

      Bowman, I've had more than enough of your insults to me and now you're insulting the other commenters. Keep posting and I'll keep deleting your posts and we'll see who gets tired first.

    • profile image

      Yannick Gingras 10 years ago

      I tried to reproduce your results but all my exprerient reaches a different conclusion. Could you comment on the differences between my methodology and yours? Here is my write up:

      http://ygingras.net/b/2007/7/could-hotmail-drop-ma...

    • profile image

      A friend 10 years ago

      I had an experience about a year ago as an ISP support professional; I would receive complaints from numerous customers using hotmail and msn email that they received blank messages in their email which should have been their billing invoices. The invoices in question did have a somewhat graphic quality to them, but the invoices weren't attachments, and that specific problem never seemed to be an issue with any other email provider the customers in question dealt with. True, that's a little different than losing the message altogether, but I feel it does offer credibility to your argument. Secondly, to anyone offering that the ISPs might have had something to do with this, you might want to clarify whether or not the messages you sent from either hotmail account to the other showed up in the sent items folder; once those specific messages arrived on the hotmail server, not one of them should have ever left; I'll admit that I don't really know how a mail server works, but it seems to me that any server that sends in-house messages outside of its network has something seriously wrong with it (I am a technician, so I do know something about what I'm talking about; data transfer from one part of a computer to another never leaves the computer, for example).

      Regarding your post, however, I found your analysis as thorough as you could make it; you stated your thesis, you outlined the steps you took to study your thesis, you stated the results, and you presented the conclusion based on your thesis. I never once found the article losing my attention and I found your overall conclusion accurate, though possibly a little misleading, as for some reason, everyone who's read it seems to reach the conclusion that the average data loss was 81%; I calculated the actual averages for you and found that the internal, hotmail to hotmail turned out to be 76% and the overall results for hotmail to/from hotmail or other isps came out to be 70.4% (including the transfer between the two ISPs would have skewed the averages, so I excluded them).

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      Sune, all I can say is: :) !

    • profile image

      Sune Mølgaard 10 years ago

      Purportedly-Dr. Bowman: Even if the reasoned interpretaions of the data are somehow wrong, that still leaves the data. And most interestingly, that data suguggests that at least in these cases, mails are dropped without notice.

      If indeed you are a doctor, you should be aware that there is ample data for reasoning, both "fantasising" and otherwise. In short: The motive is unclear.

      But still, the loss has ocurred. This may very well contradict your dreamworld, but drawing any conclusions from that fact is subject to interpretation that would, if stated, probably get me demoted.

      If indeed you are a doctor, do pick up your old introductory courses notes validity of scientific papers, and either 1) Accept this as such (with the limitations stated earlier), or 2) drop the "Dr." from your nick, as you are most probably only flamebaiting...

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      Dr. Bowman... somehow I think there's a disconnect here. Go to Blockbuster and head directly for the Kubrick section. You'll catch the drift. :)

      ScaryFast: That is extremely important information. It's fascinating to learn that the messages are actually received by the Hotmail servers and it is there that the disappearing act happens, as that could be a smoking gun to the function of the "suspected email killer algorithm." Thanks for the great info!!!

    • profile image

      ScaryFast 10 years ago

      I work for an ISP in Canada and have been getting complaints from some of our customers about this same problem. I've done some testing myself using Email addresses on my ISP, Gmail, and using my webhost located somewhere in the United States.

      Looking at the logs on our mail server we know that the messages are received by Hotmail servers, they just dissapear into the nether somewhere on the other end.

      You can blame junk filters if you want, but if this is the case why do all the penis pill ads end up in the junk folder while a Jpeg from a camping trip just plain dissapear?

      I'm sorry but something else is happening and they need to figure it out.

    • profile image

      Dr. Bowman 10 years ago

      What is madness? To have erroneous perceptions and to reason correctly from them.

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      Yeah, well just see if you get past the pod bay doors! Go join your buddy Poole spinning through space for eternity! I've got an appointment with a monolith I'm late for. :)

    • profile image

      Dr. Bowman 10 years ago

      It pleases me greatly you are upset Hal.

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      Who's the jerk, me or you who didn't read through this page and see that argument conclusively negated? Go back to outer space Dr. Bowman. This time around, this HAL is going to leave you out there for good! :P

    • profile image

      Dr. Bowman 10 years ago

      Hysterial nonsense.

      No doubt the twerp

      renamed the same attachment

      with different file extensions and

      Hotmail legitimately deleted the spam.

      Jerk.

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      Read The Statute: Thank you profoundly for bringing a comprehensive description of the prevailing laws well beyond my limited legal knowledge. I really appreciate it. I would also be very interested to learn of your take on 1343!

      So... who's going to be the first bright and prescient attorney who is going to figure out that leading a class action suit or other action on this matter against Microsoft is going to turn them into the next Johnny Cochrane? Or Perry Mason? :)

      Seriously! I'd love to hear from you!!!!

    • profile image

      Read the Statute 10 years ago

      It seems that many of the critics posting to this blog assume that mail fraud must somehow be a fraud involving actual mail, such as stealing letters out of someone's mailbox (which would be a different crime altogether) and so would not apply to Microsoft “stealing/deleting” emails out of someone’s inbox. But that is not what mail fraud is about at all. Here is the actual text of 18 USC Sec. 1341, straight from the House of Representatives at http:\\uscode.house.gov (although, I have added some line breaks to assist people in reading it):

      “Whoever,

      having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud,

      or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises,

      or to sell, dispose of, loan, exchange, alter, give away, distribute, supply, or furnish or procure for unlawful use any counterfeit or spurious coin, obligation, security, or other article, or anything represented to be or intimated or held out to be such counterfeit or spurious article,

      for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice or attempting so to do,

      places in any post office or authorized depository for mail matter,

      any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by the Postal Service,

      or deposits or causes to be deposited any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by any private or commercial interstate carrier,

      or takes or receives therefrom, any such matter or thing,

      or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail or such carrier according to the direction thereon, or at the place at which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, any such matter or thing,

      shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

      If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.”

      The beauty of this statute, and probably why it (and the similar wire fraud statute) gets so much use by federal prosecutors, is that it is really, really hard to execute a scheme to defraud people without using the mail in some way. Basically, any person who has come up with a plan to defraud (or is even trying to come up with a plan to defraud) or who, in connection with obtaining money from another person through false representations, sends (or asks someone else to send) ANYTHING by US Mail, FedEx, or Joe’s Interstate Shipping Service, or RECEIVES anything from the US MAIL, FedEx, etc. (apparently, even if it is not specifically addressed to them) in order to carry out their plan or to obtain money through their false representations, should be spending the next 20 years in the slammer.

      So if the folks at Microsoft have ever received a letter complaining that emails with attachments weren’t being delivered, or sent a box of paperwork regarding Hotmail server usage to an offsite storage facility via FedEx or DHL, or done any number of other ordinary activities that happen everyday at corporations, and they are collecting fees for paid Hotmail accounts based on false representations about the service being offered (e.g., that your email will be delivered) it seems very likely that they would be committing mail fraud.

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      bradley: Thanks for the info. Very interesting indeed!

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      bradley13 10 years ago

      This may be relevant: our micro-company has its own SMTP server, and we often have trouble sending to hotmail accounts. The mails don't bounce - they just never arrive. Our belief is that this is due to aggressive spam-filtering - not the sort reported to users, but the kind where e-mail from certain sources is just tossed in the bit-bucket.

      The situation improved a lot when we hung a dyndns.org name onto the naked IP-address of the mail server, but it has not gone away entirely.

      Of course, this doesn't explain the results of this test, since presumably hotmail isn't going to mark itself as a spam source...

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      e: Irrelevant given the clear and obvious judicial precedents. There have been many people thrown in jail for placing a listing on eBay of some expensive piece of electronics, accepting the payment and then sending a photo of the equipment to the buyer, pointing to small print stating "you are bidding on a photo of the equipment." A consumer is entitled to what they reasonably expected to receive. Anything else is a scam. Believe me, the old joke is not true: What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 85... Your Honour. Most judges are smart, savvy, know the law inside and out, and have years of experience fending off futile technicalities from hordes of attorneys.

    • profile image

      10 years ago

      I'm still wondering where Hotmail makes any promise to deliver e-mail. The limitatin of liabilities does not make any such promise. It only attempts to place an upper limit on damages.

      What you need to find is something from Hotmail that says "We will deliver all of your e-mail". I really doubt that such a document exists.

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      AndreyT: Actually, I do resemble a troll. Short, fat, balding, and lots of hair hanging out of my large ears. But my young hottie gf still sleeps with me, so I guess I'm not that bad. :)

      Let's see. In the past couple of months on Hub I've been accused of being anti-Windows, anti-AMD, anti-Google, anti-SEO, anti-BMW, anti-Buell, anti-literary agent, anti-Ocicat, anti-American pizza, anti-baseball and anti-Bart Starr, Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, Joe Namath, Troy Aikman, John Elway, Brett Favre, and Tom Brady. And all the time I thought I was an uncle. :)

      If I'm such a planted mouthpiece for Apple, Intel, Harley Davidson, The International Bengal Cat Society and any of the other plethora of organizations, where are my secret slush fund royalty cheques?

      Heck, there's even a blogger today who disagrees with this Hub's conclusions but really loved the toilet graphic!

      Again, please feel free to agree or disagree to any level of vehemence. Bring it on. The more the merrier. But you call me a liar twice and I delete your comments. You can sit in the corner by yourself if you can't play nice with the other kids.

      JT: Captchas were correctly entered several times when sending from Hotmail. I am not an AOL user so I can't comment on their aspects of file loss, but it would follow that if it is indeed a purposeful algorithmic implementation to be able to defraud users by promising them bandwidth and storage levels which do not exist, then I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft wasn't the only corporate Goliath which utilized it.

      Spencer: FTPing attachments for download is certainly a valid alternative. It would be nice if we could just use that email Attach button for something other than decoration though! :)

    • profile image

      Spencer 10 years ago

      I work at a vocal production firm, and we used to email a lot of files (primarily 1MB-ish mp3s). Not always, but the majority of the time, if a client or talent complained that they didn't receive the email, lo and behold... it was a Hotmail account.

      To work around that issue, we began keeping all the files on our website, and just sent automatically-generated emails with links to the files- it saved a lot of hassle.

      While there are formulas to determine margin of error and accurate sample sizes, it's been too long since my Political Analysis class for me to remember any of them.

      Still, if those figures are even remotely accurate and representative- ouch, Microsoft.

    • profile image

      JT 10 years ago

      I would like to see if the same files were being "eaten" every time to see if the attachments were blocked. The files may have been deemed suspicious by the builtin Trend E-mail virus scanner. This does not necessarily justify the block without notification, but could provide an explanation.

      I have been using Hotmail for quite a number of years and have never seen a significant number of emails lost - with or without attachments. And I regularly send files back and forth from work to home via my hotmail (several times a week for the last 4 years). I have surely sent many more than a hundred and I cannot remember the last time one did not arrive.

      I do know that files with certain file extensions (though none of the ones mentioned in the original posting) are often automatically dropped without notice and that some emails, when sent, require entering a captcha to prove you are not a spambot. Either of those items could potentially explain (again, not necessarily justify) the result. Interesting to note, I have a certain subset of people I email on a regular basis (all AOL users) who regularly don't get my emails with attachments, but they are the only ones, so I assume it is an AOL issue.

    • profile image

      AndreyT 10 years ago

      I've been using my free Hotmail account for sending/receiving attachments for several years already. I've never run into any problems with "Vanished" Emails. It could be your spam filter interfering with your experiment, or it could be something else. You could simply be lying. The beginning of the article literallyy screams "anti-Windows troll", so the "lying" version feels like a rather safe bet.

      Of course, any poster here can easily reproduce the experiment with their own accounts pretty closely and see it for themselves.

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      another: Thank you very much. I really appreciate the kind words and encouragement.

    • profile image

      another perspective 10 years ago

      Hal - nice experiment given the time and resources you were willing to commit to doing this. I've read it thoroughly and am taking from it exactly what I think you've intended -- it's more data for me to use in forming my own conclusions. I know that this is not a bulletproof, all encompassing study that covers every conceivable perspective on the subject and you've been very clear about that. Readers shouldn't expect this to be anything more than what you've presented or try to read more hidden meaning into it. I think a lot of people have a hard time accepting your data at face value. I found myself ignoring a lot of the non-constructive criticism here because it's the easy role -- to criticize someone elses work without having supporting data to suggest otherwise.

      In this respect, I'm with "amused" in giving you the benefit of the doubt, especially since you are the only one out of everyone here who's taken the time to collect some data in order to formulate and support an opinion.

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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      Evan, you get the free embossed invite too! :)

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      Evan 10 years ago

      It's amusing to see so many people willing to bash the results of this test and NOT provide results of their own test to back up their argument. All the time spent on bashing the author and no-one is willing to take the time to do their own test...it would be rather intersting to see someone else's results with the same parameters! Take the article for what it was...one person's thoughts and findings. If you don't agree, don't. If you do, do. I'm sure there are hundres of other sites that support and don't support these findings...go flame them!

    • Hal Licino profile image
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      Hal Licino 10 years ago from Toronto

      A guy II: It's a conspiracy! You're right! You can fight it! Go set yourself on fire in front of the Redmond campus! :)

      Nick: Most of the enjoyment of blogging on Hub is to engage in spirited interplay with the cheerers and the jeerers, the wise and the demented; the genuinely concerned and the sneaky link builders. It's one of the most fun things you can do with your clothes on! ;)

      Saskboy: I have no problem with spam filtering. That's what Junk Mail folders are for. I would expect that delivery be completed and I would be given the choice to make that determination, not some algorithm designed to maximize Hotmail's profit margins while cutting the need to invest in infrastructure to handle the real load.

      tepid: 100% agreed. You may now have a free embossed invitation to join the Official Hal Agreement Club! :)