Grammar Mishaps: Farther vs. Further
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Farther versus Further
Throughout history, farther and further have been used interchangeably. Even the Merriam-Webster Dictionary states that the words are interchangeable; they are the inflected form of far. It is not until recent history that they are becoming distinguished by grammarians.
Farther
Farther shows a relation to physical distance. If you can replace the word farther with "more miles" then you have done it correctly.
- Our car drove farther than I thought it would on one tank of gas.
- I wanted to run farther, but I became too exhausted.
- Our house is farther away from the restaurant than yours.
Further
Further relates to metaphorical distance or depth. It is a time, degree, or quantity. It is also another way of saying "additional".
- I asked that there be further discussion on the matter.
- I need to look further into the logistics of moving farther from my office building.
- I hope that gas prices drop further for our road trip vacation.
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Any other thoughts about grammar?
Yes, thanks for the comment!
I'd disagree with you here. They always have been interchangeable and always will be in practice. Some usage manuals have argued otherwise, but they have no basis for it usage or logic, in my opinion.
I was taught the same way you were, Robin. But I suspect the distinction has pretty well disappeared outside the ranks of English professors as is the case with many other nice distinctions.
Another of my pet peeves is the NY Times and some other publications' insistence on punctuating plural numbers with an apostrophe "s" as if they were possessives. For example, the 1990's was a period of prosperity instead of 1990s. I can see no logical reason to use an apostrophe in this case. Anybody else?
I agree! In Britain it is no longer customary to use apostrophes in plural numbers (1990s) or in abbreviations (CDs), but we're a little behind on changing this rule here in America. I prefer to leave the apostrophe out in these instances, even though some may think it's incorrect. It just makes me cringe to use it. I'm glad that I'm not alone on this matter!
Another fairly common mistake which I heard just last night on the ABC "docudrama" is using "hone" (sharpen) when the correct word is "home" (as in homing pigeon). One of the characters was talking about a drone honing in on a target or something to that effect.
Our language - the specifics of correct grammatical usage, is going FARTHER and FARTHER away from its former correctness; hence, I hope many will try to use words as they were intended. "Farther" only relates to "far" - i.e., distance. The rest is all about "further" and its various usages. This comes from a retired English teacher - so may have some value for you. :)
Thanks Pam! I agree completely. I like they way you explained it, very clear. Please feel free to add any grammar hubs that strike your fancy. ;) Robin
OMG Robin and you're and an English Teacher. It's funny my grammar is terrible which is why I don't punctuate. So far I've gotten by on content (thank god). Most people like what my poetry is saying not getting to technical about the structure and grammer...but you could (smile) and you haven't. Thanks for liking my picture anyway.
I'm sorry, I mean't thank you for liking my poetry any way. (Oops)
I think I'm too blown away by your prose to notice your grammar. You have grammatical poetic license! You are legit!! Do you have any short stories you are willing to share? I'd love to read them!
I've just realised, after writing in a hub "further information", that I couldn't use "farther" in that context...
So, is it fair comment that there are occasions when "futher" is used metaphorically that you can't replace it with "farther" but that, in common usage anyway, many use "further" for distance?
Or am I confusing the business more? I'm afraid that I have gotten into the habit of using "further" for distance myself. But sometimes rules like this are useful for learners when Native speakers can get away with breaking them.
Interesting. I don't think you should use "farther information" either. I think most people use "further" more than "farther" in sentences. I feel for second language learners. English is such a difficult language to learn; especially since there are so many rules that are not agreed upon. Farther and further are a perfect example of this incongruity. Thanks for bringing up this distinction and for the comment!
Yep, now I've got to edit another one of my hubs! LOL! Thanks, Robin. Great hub.
Ha! Sorry about that, but actually this is one you could leave and it would be fine by some accounts. I just prefer the distinction ;)
I am afraid that 'farther' can not replace 'further' in your examples, whereas 'further' can replace 'farther'.
'Farther' may suffer from its identical pronunciation to 'father' in BE; I at any rate seem to manage with 'further'/'furthest' in all cases where I need to use a derivative of 'far'. My childhood usage even extended to 'furtherest' I seem to recall.
Harzer
Thanks for the comments, Harzer. "Further/farther" is a distinction some choose to use and some don't. I do not think they should be used interchangeably. "Farther" should be used to convey distance, "further" to convey everything else.
Why wouldn't you use "farther/farthest" when using a derivative of "far" instead of "further/furthest"? I do not believe that "furtherest" is a word; you can say "furthest" though.
Thanks for the comments!
Robin
I think Robin looks a lot like Britney Spears... does anyone else think alike?
Hmmm, well I hope the former Brittney Spears and not the present one. Thanks for the compliment...I think. ;)
I am editing a document that concerns individuals who deliver educational programs in outdoor settings in different areas of the nation. One statement in the document is written as follows: "Participants in roles further from the field tended to encourage a softer approach and more incremental expectations in an attempt to mitigate anxieties regarding time."
Although this could be referrring to people who are physically distant from those working in the field, I am guessing that the author may be making a reference (on purpose or not) to the familiar phrase "further afield." I was tempted to replace "further" with "farther," but I am now leaning towards leaving it the way it is, assuming the author did not really infer physical distance.
dtl,
I agree, I think that "further" is the correct usage. I'm glad the hub may have helped!
Robin, I don't want to be picky, but in an earlier post you said "I would error on the side of..." I just wanted to let you know that "error" is not a verb-- I think you meant "to err".
Just trying to be helpful!
Kyle,
Thanks! You were right, a mistake on my part. Thanks for the catch!! ;)
Stuart J,
The Merriam-Webster agrees with you as well (the link is above), but many grammarians do not. Personally, I would err on the side of being more specific and find a distinction between the two. It's up to you. Thanks for the comment!
How about "more" in the context of "further information." "More miles" almost fits inthe context of Farther, too, but not quite.
My opinion, "farther" is a distance distinction, further is, mmmmm, a philisophical and/or metaphysical measure. Anyone?
I'm a grammar teacher. Everything just got more confusing! Hehehe. How can I explain this to my student?
THANK YOU. Your/You're hubs on/upon grammar should/ought be required reading in/during school.
Seriously, though, if not in school, then most definitely a prereq to writing hubs.
You are definitely doing a public service with your grammar articles :) Good stuff.
Farther isn't actually an English word. We always use 'further'. 'Farther' is only a word in American-english
Just what the grammar doctor ordered!
I do understand how to use them, buuutt ...
farther comes from more far , so we should never say more farther. If farther has the same form as further , why do we say further more ? is it the same if i say further and further more ?
i hope i am clear enough , english is my second language.
Robin , btw , its not that hard to learn english , it might be the easiest one . At least to get to understand it and speak it. If you want to go FURTHER it may be harder.
"I believe that farther work is required on that document." Hmmmmm!! Sounds odd to me. I agree with your definition above. Further, deponent sayeth not.
juice it was a good argumentlement
what do you think taste better cake or pie?
This was quite interesting, I was hoping that you would branch off into other words on this hub like affect and effect (i never get that one) : )
Howdy, I've one for you. My Mother, bless her soul uses, despite my constant corrections, (with love of course) the non-word FORTHER. She goes forther down the trail and that's just the way it is.
I've no further comment.
Peace
Two other misused or incorrectly-used word forms that have always annoyed me include 'bad' vs badly, as in 'I feel badly about your misfortune' vs the correct form, 'I feel bad about.......' AND
Loan vs lend. I hear newscasters and reporters discussing the Fed, for example, 'loaning' money to banks during this current financial crisis instead of using the correct form, 'lending' that money. You 'lend' money or you make a 'loan.' You don't 'loan' money.
The concept was powerful!! I really get how grammer is important farther and farther.
awesome, thanks! =D
Hi,
I'm a grammar teacher and still get confused with all this. 'The more she tried to visualise her goals the further/farther away they seemed'? Which one would you think is correct?
Seawolf31 Boy I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets annoyed when hearing presumably educated people say "lend" for "loan" or vice versa. Will you please lend me your pen? I would like to take out a loan with your bank. I hear it all the time today on TV, so and so loaned so and so something. Like fingernails on a blackboard to me.
sherry
I'll stick with the old tried and true....farther for distance and further for moreover, in addition to, etc.
This is fun. I love to learn. Even though I'm a native English speaking person, our language is hard. So many exceptions to the rule and it seems new ones are popping up all the time.
Hi, Robin =D Do you have a hub on "in behalf" vs. "on behalf"? Thanks!
Now, I was wondering, I am reading Henry IV Part 1 and I just came across a Falstaff quotation:
I'd starve ere I'll rob a foot further (2.2.22)
Would this still be considered correct in modern English grammar? Yes, it is a hypothetical distance, but it is connected with the concrete unit of "feet." What do you think?
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biff says:
3 years ago
Further can also be a verb (further one's agenda), but I don't think the same is true for farther.