The Subject is TORTURE
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The Torture Debate in America
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Torture and Truth: Abu Ghraib and America in Iraq
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Monstering: Inside America's Policy of Secret Interrogations and Torture in the Terror War
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Torture in Brazil: A Shocking Report on the Pervasive Use of Torture by Brazilian Military Governments, 1964-1979, Secretly Prepared by the Archiodese of São Paulo (Ilas Special Publication)
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I’m not sure why I haven’t written on this subject up until now. There is a part of me that sits in disbelief when I hear the topic on the news or in discussion. There is a part of me that thinks how can we even be discussing this topic as an option in a reasonable way with intellectual people. I have visions of Nazi Germany and death camps. I find it chilling.
The subject is torture.
To me, the question regarding whether we should use torture or, as Joseph Goebbels would put it "enhanced interrogation techniques", in order to gain information is bad enough, the fact that we have been using it paralyzes me. First of all, I have a son that almost went into the military. Maybe that fact alone gives me perspective. When I think about my son being put in a situation where he is told to torture someone or being tortured is more than I can bear. It’s always easier to think of subjects like these when they are being done by someone else, to someone else, far, far away. To personalize the subject is to clarify the subject. And, make no mistake, if we torture, our troops will be tortured. We will reap what we sow.
For all those who would make the argument that waterboarding is NOT torture; I disrespectfully disagree. I suggest before a panel is arranged before any argument is taken, before any discussion is entered into that you try it yourself. And I know, I know you aren't going to do this but why not just do this one thing. Next time you are in the shower tilt your head back and let the water flow into your nose and mouth, see how just that one little act feels. Now try, just try to understand how that might feel with your hands tied and someone else doing this to you. In fact, I think it would be a great idea to have the entire Congress, The Supreme Court and the President waterboarded, then get back to me (or us) on the subject.
Some have argued that torture is the only way that we can ensure our safety and get the information that we need. I have only one question regarding the efficacy of torture…who would not make up anything, say anything, confess to anything to get out of being tortured?
Finally, the path that we have taken is evil and needs to be corrected. It violates all standards of good including the Geneva Convention as well as the Judeo Christian standard of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. Do you disagree? Then I challenge you to try it yourself, and please get back to me with the results. Germany still has the stigma of the Nazi era and more than likely it will never be forgotten, is this what you want to be known for as an American?
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Comments
I don't know about truth serums, somehow the character of the human race seems to want to hurt others...it's sad.
Sounds to me like liberal talk.
In Germany you could not talk against government as you do here.
I cannot stand someone can compare America with the Hitler Germany. I lived there.
Do you think it's right to torture people?
I'm not saying we are like Germany yet, but to ignore something like this is a very dangerous thing.
These men that try waterboarding have the ability to stop it at any time. Imagine that going on for hours. It is torturous. waterboarding does not leave marks which is one of the primary reasons that it is used. However, torture does not work. History has shown us that and other countries have come to this conclusion and have stopped practicing it. The United States using torture at Guantanamo Bay has brought shame on this country and that is the primary reason that the prison needs to be closed.
The climate in germany before the national socialist party took control is very close to what it is here in the United States today. A collapsing economy and citizens that were for the most part, blaming foreigners and welfare case for their countries troubles. The National socialist party in Germany unleashed the hatred that was already seething there within the people. Yes, it is liberal talk. liberal is about liberty. look up what the word means. True patriots will talk and stand against an oppressive government. That is what real freedom is about.
Hitler would not have bothered with an open discussion about it, he would have just killed everyone there and walked away
I agree, if we don't do something now, it might be too late tomorrow. What a shame.
That video is frightening
I know! I can't imagine what it must feel like to be shackled, tipped down, have you nose held and have water poured into your mouth. I just can't imagine and I can't help but think that anyone who would experience that would agree that it is torture. The guy who did it was originally for waterboarding. Please pass it on.
Terrorists or unlawful combatants (people shooting at you from within a civilian setting without uniforms that belong to no army of a recognized nation, for instance) are not covered under the Geneva Convention. Sawing the head off an unarmed American reporter with a dull butcher knife while he squeals like a pig and putting it on the internet for his family to see (or hear about) is covered under the Geneva Covention—but our enemy doesn't give a twit about it.
Hitler brutalized his own unarmed private citizens with, among other things, live operations on their internal organs without anesthesia and they always ended up dead. To even think about mentioning that when talking about trained murderers captured while shooting at our sons and daughters, without hearts, who's lifelong mission is to kill any westerner they can find unprotected is . . . well I don't want to say what it is.
I just don't think that Jesus would ever approve of torture, do you?
hmmm . . . I would to lean toward no. But he did tell that soldier it was OK to be a soldier and a Believer and soldiers in those days did far more atrocious things than waterboard. Then enslaved their enemies for life and whipped the tar out of them regularly and sometimes poked their eyeballs out or cut out their tongues. Of course in the Old Testament God told some of His chosen leaders to kill every man, woman and child of their enemies on some occasions.
I think killing and torturing are two very different things. No where does God advocate torture.
Perhaps you should prepare for a visit to the remote portions of the MIddle East and see if krumpits and tea work. LOL.
Here's a lil' diddy I wrote recently: Pret-ty please Mr. Tal-i-ban, tell me what you know...I know, I know dem Dems a little slow, almost laughable. Pretty, pretty, please Mr. Tal-i-ban...tell me what you know...
Good luck with your entirely-too-weak approach at obtaining pertinent information.
I have a nephew and he is 10. His mother believes entirely in "timeouts and this green light, yellow light, red light thing that he finds most pleasurable. Don't get me wrong, I love him but he is like Dennis the Menace on crack and steroids and time outs don't seem to be the answer.
How do you suggest we accomplish obtaining pertinent information from those willing to eradicate the "great infidel?"
Majicat, you stated that torture does not work. Do you think we'd be any safer as a nation if those administering the technique(s) told you the plans the enemy has for us? LOL
Torture doesn't work, people just say whatever in order to stop the torture. Besides that these people have been apprehended without due process, representation or trial. It is unAmerican to do this...would you want your nephew taken like that and be judged and condemned for years without any evidence or trial.
No; but you've missed my point entirely. My nephew isn't looking to lop my head off, shoot me or kill my fellow citizens if given half a chance to do so.
I hope you are not one of those folk that believe that Islam is a "peaceful religion." *So I raise my initial point try the krumpits and tea and see if that works. Best of luck.
And how do you know if the people we have put in prison for years are trying to do that? You don't! Unless of course you just trust the government to do the "right thing" and if that's the case there is no sense talking to you.
I know because I've served in the military. Let me paint a scenario for you. You, Brie Hoffman, are in Afghanistan. You and your company are walking thru a neighborhood when your unit comes under fire.
You can only see 7 or 8 of them but before long nearly every window holds a gun pointed directly at you; thankfully you've managed to find cover around the nearest corner.
Let us imagine for a moment that their are ten of you and you are certain there are upwards of 30 of them. (You know the type -- the kind that never use human shields and/or religious buildings as cover -- LOL)
You and your men manage to pick off a few of them BUT realize that you need to call in enforcements. It takes a little while but the enforcements finally arrive and your team is able to overcome/subdue the building.
You've conducted a room by room check and you are almost certain that you've either killed or silenced those attempting to kill you.
All of a sudden from out of a small back room jump three men with guns and you and yours shoot them and you see two men retreating because now they are not so tuff -- seeing that approximately forty of theirs have either been apprehended or killed.
The two that are running have guns but they decide to drop them and wave a white towel. (Pay close attention to my last sentence now; are the men that dropped their guns your friends?) Will krumpits and tea all of a sudden work? No, for example, they should have killed Muqtada al Sadr and his men but they let them go a couple of times simply because they knew they were outnumbered and they weren't quite sure if they were ready to meet their virgins just yet.
Oh, you are impossible...You probably think out having bombed the mountains of Afghanistan just after 9/11 was unjustifiable and inhumane. *The taliban claimed partial responsibility for 9/11.
Let me guess you are probably for women's rights, right? Where were the libbers that cry on tv programs but do not hale victory when women are loosened from subjective, often fatal coercion. Only in America. (North America to be exact) is such fluff allowed to run rampant and that not in a petri dish in some lab.
No, but I certainly don't trust this government to do the right thing when it's okay to go after a baby not once but twice should it live outside of the vagina.
Oh, but let's tip the scales and not look at that subject and save some whales and cry for the whales. (By the way, I believe we should be sensitive when it comes to how we view wildlife) but lefties are so wrapped up in the wrong things that they cannot see that when an egg and sperm collide it at that point is either an apple tree or a human. (Want to talk genetics now? Read my post prior to this first.
By the way, I also believe that we should pull every troop out of the Middle East and let heathen men kill each other.
Even here in the United States, in though sad, we should rally all gang members -- offer them a chance to get out; perhaps something akin to the witness protection program and then fund a war where thugs kill one another so they are unable to terrorize law abiding folk. (As sick is this nation is we could make it a pay-per-view event and use the money to take care of bastardized children with pigs for fathers and mothers. Lazy pigs.
Tackle this..YOU ARE AN IDIOT! First of all I am against abortion. Second of all we never should have been in Iraq or Afghanistan, we were lied to about both wars and you have bought the lies hook line and sinker. I'll tell you this...if the Iraqis were walking down our streets, occupying our street like we are they would be in danger just as our troops are in danger. YOU are full of preconceived notions that are 99% wrong about me and about this war. It's people like you (that are so easily manipulated) that have caused this countries downfall.
I never said that Iraq was a good move. Ever.
By the way, I am sorry if I offended you in any way but most people that take this topic on are highly leftist. Doesn't mean you are of course but even your first responder responded in similar fashion. *Kudos that you are against abortion.
You shouldn't put people into boxes. If you had read some of my other blogs you would know that I am quite independent.
Tackle This, I would ask you to rent and watch the film "Taxi to the Dark Side". What we are doing to innocent people will not go unpunished. We punished the Germans for what they did in World War 2 and we are not above God's law.
In addition, I would also like to point out that I am all for capital punishment for people who commit capital crimes but when it comes to the innocent, one had better examine himself to make sure you are on the side of the good and not in league with the devils agenda.
Do you think Waterboarding is torture?
See results without votingThe Subject is TORTURE in the News
- Sarkozy is half right: all Europeans must understand the Swiss mistake | Timothy Garton AshGuardian Unlimited3 hours ago
What really matters is not minarets, but that we all, Muslims included, commit to the essentials of a free society So Nicolas Sarkozy, responding to the minaret ban in Switzerland , admonishes us to practise our faiths with "humble discretion" . To be recommended humble discretion by President Sarkozy is like being counselled modesty in dress by Lady Gaga, or self-denial by a banker. But France ...
- MPs order release of Afghan detainee torture documentsToronto Star1 second ago
The Liberals narrowly pushed through a motion in the Commons that forces Harper's government to release waves of unedited documents related to Afghan prisoners.
- MPs order release of torture documentsToronto Star1 second ago
Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government has lost its iron grip on information about detainee treatment in Afghanistan after a showdown that pitted the power of the ruling party against the power of Parliament.
The Subject is TORTURE in the News
- Sarkozy is half right: all Europeans must understand the Swiss mistake | Timothy Garton AshGuardian Unlimited3 hours ago
What really matters is not minarets, but that we all, Muslims included, commit to the essentials of a free society So Nicolas Sarkozy, responding to the minaret ban in Switzerland , admonishes us to practise our faiths with "humble discretion" . To be recommended humble discretion by President Sarkozy is like being counselled modesty in dress by Lady Gaga, or self-denial by a banker. But France ...
- MPs order release of Afghan detainee torture documentsToronto Star1 second ago
The Liberals narrowly pushed through a motion in the Commons that forces Harper's government to release waves of unedited documents related to Afghan prisoners.
- MPs order release of torture documentsToronto Star1 second ago
Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government has lost its iron grip on information about detainee treatment in Afghanistan after a showdown that pitted the power of the ruling party against the power of Parliament.
US/UK complicit in torture
someonewhoknows says:
7 months ago
There seems to be something about so called truth serums that don't work .Why arn't they a viable alternative? Are they reliable or not?