I'm so glad I'm not a man

I just had a chat with a bunch of girls that started off on the topic of weight loss. When one of them mentioned "most men are pervs", the others immediately agreed. In fact, I found myself the only one to disagree after which I was attacked as a traitor to my sex.

Conversations like this are very common - not just on the web but in every day life too not to mention the media. I only mention this particular one because it was the most recent - a few hours ago. If anything, this was a mild version compared with some I've seen. We're basically living in a kind of glorification of anything feminine. Check out my article on female supremacy for lots more on that topic.

I can't help but wondering how it must be like to go through life with everyone you meet having the first impression that you're a pervert, potential rapist or violent sociopath. Myself I only started wondering from my acquaintance with my dear love who seems to suffer from this more than most guys. Well if I was in such a situation, I would find myself over compensating by being extra nice and kind and to make sure my 'potential victims' don't get too scared. I'd try my absolute best not to show any sign of attraction or even DARE to touch them without a formal contract. I would stay far away from any form of body contact or remarks on a woman's looks.And that was exactly how my boyfriend was behaving when we started dating. Now, I love sensitive men and I like being the initiator so we clicked perfectly. Fortunately, there are a lot of men like that now days and its not surprising. The only problem is, that those men are nearly always rejected by women because they say they want a "real man". Don't ask me why cause I love the unreal men but I'm a freak.

So as a man you're either a pervert or you're a wimp. You can even be both but you're definitely going to be at least one of the two when you leave your home.

All men are useless


The other popular belief is that nobody needs men and that they're useless. It is soooo untrue and shamelessly childish to say or even think that. If this was true, then who's running the farms and power plants, the steal, coal and gold mines? Who built the houses we're sitting in right now? Who invented all of those things that we take for granted every minute of our lives? What about sewers for a really nice example? Still think men are useless with all that in mind? Perhaps you should reconsider. The truth is, and it took me a few years of growing up to admit, that without men, society wouldn't be better. There would be no society in the first place. We'd just live like wild animals - our only aim in life would be naked survival from one minute to the next and with no time for complaining about gender inequality.

Being a man in today's feminist society has got to be a living nightmare compared with what it's like for women. Honestly, most of us women have no idea how much easier it is for us on average (if you have doubts then you should become acquainted with the male suicide rate. Not a nice statistic at all). It's not surprising that men are becoming more feminine (which I like). Don't blame them for it when they're only trying to survive in a world that despises and punishes maleness.

With the increasing influence of women, this will not be feasible much longer. I wrote in my article on the matriarchy, how we will sooner or later not have a choice but to start caring about the male gender. With this more optimistic thought I'll leave the rant for today.

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Comments 188 comments

Gavin 7 years ago

Actually, you assertion that without men we'd be like "wild animals" is completely false. There is good archeological evidence which shows that women were the inventors or agriculture, alphabets, and even mathematics. On a different note, we absolutely do not live in a "feminist world" right now. Maybe among your feminist girlfriends this seems possible - but in the "real" political and capitalistic world we all live and work and die in, society is still utterly dominated by men, with very few exceptions. I'm a feminist transmale, and even I can see this. It's not fair, but it's the way things are - at least for now.


Steven 7 years ago

Thank you Lucy. I'm a 19 year old male and I have felt like that all the time in my life. I'm always wondering if the girl im talking to is afraid of me thinking im a rapist or something. women constantly make me hate myself for being a guy. Saying things like "All men are the same", like my mom has, or "I hate all men", it really makes me want to just kill myself sometimes. I realize there's a lot bad men out there, but we aren't all like that. My girlfriend would agree. Thank~you Lucy =] If we all had the maturity about the opposite sex like you do, I think the world would be a much better place. Both genders are equally great and important.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 7 years ago Author

Thanks 4 the comment Steven. Actually I think there aren't that many bad men around. Just for some reason they get all the attention so it seems like they're everywhere.


Jane 6 years ago

As for women who say all men are alike, my come back is all women are alike in the fact they are so negative about everything. As for trying to be extra nice to women so he won't be considered to be a pervert, I have had this action blow up in my face. Women will start thinking what is he up to because he is so nice. There are times I think women deep down wants to be treated like dirt. I for one do not wish to lower myself to this action.


dreamreachout 6 years ago

Its so much more sublime if women stick to their feminine beauty which makes the world beautiful!! The other point is that men cant stay without women and viceversa!! It is thus best that we dont get judgemental about supremacy or usefulness of the sexes!!


Anon E Mouse 6 years ago

Its not so much that women want to be treated like dirt its more a control issue. I certainly do not profess to understanding the mind of a woman but I certainly believe they like to get their own way and if they dont then the most common form of defense seems to be that they "Play the victim" I will get shot for this comment but in my 38 yrs of life I have had the whole victim thing thrown up in my face more times than I can count. This is evident when they start to generalize "All Men Are......" and even when a woman is in the wrong she will attack and say "Its because you did ....." its never a womans fault and if it is they can not accept it is their fault so it must be the mans fault in all situations.

And that is exactly how the most insincere of male 2 word replies was born. Its a common answer that many a nagging or unreasonable female partner would have heard.

"Yes Dear"


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 6 years ago Author

Yes I know and agree. But it is a problem caused by both men and women. In society we tend to think of things like this:

If a man does something bad, he's evil.

If a woman does something bad, it's because someone drove her to do it - usually a man.

People just can't seem to want to assign the same responsibility to women as they do to men. That ultimately holds women back.


Sherman 6 years ago

Thanks for your article Lucy83.

Also, I would like to see a good socio-psychological study of pop literature--including movies, videos and TV shows for how female and males are portrayed, their traits and how they treat each other. I suspect we may find some support for your observations there. There are precious few portrayals of healthy male-female/husband-wife relationships. I would rank Bill Cosby as an exception. It seems nearly all others are whiney, dysfunctional, contentious, self-centered, stubborn, etc. I have a hard time watching them. All In The Family was contentious and dysfunctional but at least ended each episode on a fairly level playing field--for the moment.

I think its time men turn over the sewer jobs, vehicle maintenance, heavy construction, roofing, steelwork, sewage treatment, etc. over to women for at least a quarter century and see if that will temper attitudes.


scrappycoco profile image

scrappycoco 5 years ago from Ohio

Lucy yet again a very good post. I can agree with you on most of the things you say. I mean walk into the young girls dept and what do you see tshirts for young girls that make fun of there brother's for being boys, or ones that say girls are better than boys. I am an air force vet and I can rember back to when the tail hook scandle went down in the navy. It was not long after that Uncle same came out with a manditory training program done once a year calle EO200 (Equal Opertunity 2000) a fancy term for sexual harrasment. Now mind you that kind of behavior has no biz in the work place, but the thing that got me upset right out the gate as the military did like it always does and made the male to be the aggressor. Long story short I made the female officer that was instructing the class so upset that I almost got an LOR from her (Letter Of Repermand) because she allowed to to speak freely and did not like what I have to say.


saharaheve profile image

saharaheve 5 years ago

"I'm so glad I'm not a man"

I think thou dost protest too much, but I will say this is one area you and I agree on.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 5 years ago Author

@ Saharaheve.

Well isn't that a confidence boost - having your approval.

Actually, when I wrote this I was kind of worked up. That's me when I see injustices affect somebody close to me.


Josie 5 years ago

Im so glad im not a guy, loved your article : ) I felt like a legend when I gave birth to my son ..without any pain meds I might add. My husband works at the hospital but was too scared to be there. He will never live it down. Even his friends call him soft now haha. Hes gonna try and be there next time so he gets his mates and relatives to stop calling him names.


Patrick 5 years ago

Although this is an older post it is still very timely, Lucy. This has been going on for years but I was never all that sensitive to it, until this past year.

It seems that it's acceptable to bash men wherever one may find them. I remember a family function a few years ago, the topic of television shows came up, and I said that I hated how wives are always portrayed as the intelligent partner, while the husband is always portrayed as a bumbling idiot who can't do anything right (think Ray Barone).

Well, this brought uproarious laughter from my aunts, with comments like "that's because it's true," and initiated a flurry of conversation amongst themselves about all the stupid things their husbands do. I couldn't imagine the opposite occurring, with all the men that were present, just going to town mocking their wives. It wouldn't happen.

The worst part about it is that you can't defend yourself. If you stick up for men you get the old "take it like a man" speech from other men, or the women's favorite, "suck it up buttercup." I guess that's the wimp branding you talked about.

The "all men are useless" example is a favorite of female supremacists and proponents of matriarchy. To your examples of the work that men do that makes society livable, they would dismissively reply that someone has to do the grunt work. Slaves are good for something. They're not going to get their pretty little hands dirty. One female supremacist even wrote something similar about male soldiers. She claimed that men are expendable, by design. If danger rears its head, it's the man's job to lay down his life for the more valuable female.

Well yes, men will risk their lives to protect women and children, and the more vulnerable of their fellows. I responded to her saying why not just show some gratitude to the men that do that, instead of talking about them like they're disposable pieces of garbage. She didn't have the courage to publish or respond to my comment.

That's where all of this talk is going. That's the ultimate end of this thinking; when you look down on men with such disdain that you feel it was their life purpose to be sacrificed so that you could exist.

It makes me sick and I've had enough of it. This is about to become a rant of my own, so I'll just end it here.

Thank you for your continued level-headed assessments of gender issues.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 5 years ago Author

Hi Patrick,

it has become pretty bad hasn't it. The problem lies with both men and women I think. Men because they usually won't stand up for their gender and women because they get a selfish confidence boost from bitching about the men in their lives.

I really hope this will improve soon because it's not fun. It has given my boyfriend a lot of trouble and that means I got a piece of it too. And the thought that young boys are growing up in such a hostile society is maddening. Those poor little souls being bombarded with man hating. Sick.


Patrick 5 years ago

Yes Lucy, I think about my nephews, three of them between the ages of 9 months to 5 years old. It makes me angry when I think of them being indoctrinated. They won't be if I have anything to say about it, but how to go about addressing those issues with children, I don't know.

I'm not so sure men won't stand up for their gender; they just haven't, yet. I believe it is mostly due to the cultural memories of the worst of the oppression of women; most men feel guilty about defending the male gender. They probably feel like they are saying something inappropriate about women. I did at first.

When I started to become aware of the ideological gender war, I thought, "but who could argue against equal rights for women?" Because that's what it felt like I was doing by speaking out against any aspects of feminism, even though that wasn't and isn't what I'm doing. I went from being a long-time feminist supporter, because I assumed that it was about respect and human dignity for women, to realizing the modern version is very anti-male.

It's a politically correct minefield to navigate. You have to stand up for equality, for BOTH genders, without sounding like a misogynist. One also has to be careful to not actually align with misogynists who use this as an excuse to attack women. Often the types of men that do speak up are not the best representatives for males.

So, I believe it will get worse before men realize it's OK to stand up for themselves, and that it doesn't necessarily make them anti-woman.


M.F. 5 years ago

I can assure you Lucy that you're right in your assertions. Being male is to live half a life. Ordinary everyday social interactions, clothing choice and freedom of expression are either off limits to males or confined withing rigorously narrow and confined social boundries. You'd have to exprience life in a male body to understand what an unpleasant and quietly desperate experience it is for many. Masculinity is largely an entirely artificial construct which seems to have evolved to eradicate any individualism in males. When was the last time you saw a guy in a pin stripe kilt on his way to the office ? Can it really be that half the population reject the freedom to dress their bodies as they see fit - or is the the subtle yet powerful T's & C's of being male which prescribe what a male may or may not do without risking societally endorsed ridicule and humiliation / violence. Wearing a kilt's an interesting experience if you're interested in the reaction of others. Many males feel obliged to comment or ridicule fellow male who's kilted - I know from experience that this generally is a manifestation of jealousy or resentment that a fellow male has had the temerity to 'break the rules' and escape the prescribed role imposed on males from birth onwards. I've got no desire to be female. Makeup and elaborate hairdos baffle me - but it would be nice to be able to live, dress and communicate with my fellow humans free of the perverse and unwaveringly rigid boundries imposed on those with male physiology. Women may adopt a 'dual gender' role in today's society - and have practically unlimited freedom of self expression. If you're male - you claim anything other than your prescribed role limits at your peril.

Henry David Thoreau observed that most men lead lives of quiet deperation. I can't speak for all males - but I assure ou he wasn't wide of the mark.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 5 years ago Author

Patrick, everything you said in your last comment I completely agree with. The only thing I might add (for the sake of being complete), is that it's also hard to tell separate the extremists on the side of feminism from those who stand for equality. So really we have much the same problem from whichever angle you approach it.

The only thing is, that the male angle has hardly been used at all in the gender discussion. Even if only for the sake of balance, we should.

@ M.F.

thanks to you too. Much of what you write is what I've seen in men who have become "aware" of their gender or at least started to talk about it openly.

I'll have to Google Henry David Thoreau.


magictinopener profile image

magictinopener 5 years ago from France

"Being a man in today's feminist society has got to be a living nightmare compared with what it's like for women."

I wouldn't say it's a living nightmare. I'd say it's challenging. When I hear such comments as "all men are pervs" (or anything else negative that can be said against all men), it motivates me to show that I'm not like and this, and thus prove that certain men are different.

I'd never blame a woman for saying something like this no matter how extreme she is. Because somehow it's our (men's) fault if certain woman now hate every man. Someone who've had bad experiences with every man she met might start to think that they are all the same, I can understand that. I believe women are still the biggest victims of today's sick culture, it's no surprise that they're feeling revolted and acting accordingly.

Anyways, good article, thanks for writing this :)


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 5 years ago Author

First of all, when I wrote this article I was p***ed off and so I went a little over the top. Still, I believe the basic message.

I sense some problems with your comment though.

"When I hear such comments as "all men are pervs" ..., it motivates me to show that I'm not like and this, and thus prove that certain men are different."

It is not your job to prove anything about half the population to the other half of the population and if you try, you will fail. If people are so sexist that they judge you by your gender, then that's their problem. Perhaps you shouldn't let them make it yours.

"Because somehow it's our (men's) fault if certain woman now hate every man. "

How is it your fault? What exactly have you personally done to that certain woman? And why do you speak for all men and cast blame and guilt on so many people you've never even met. If anyone hates people for no other reason than their gender, then that's their own fault alone. They've got to learn to think in other terms and treat people like individuals. In other words, they have to grow the hell up.


magictinopener profile image

magictinopener 5 years ago from France

"If people are so sexist that they judge you by your gender, then that's their problem."

This is true but don't you think they need to realize that doing this is not right?

"How is it your fault? What exactly have you personally done to that certain woman? And why do you speak for all men and cast blame and guilt on so many people you've never even met. If anyone hates people for no other reason than their gender, then that's their own fault alone."

I think I didn't express myself correctly, this is not exactly what I meant.

I don't believe anyone would start hating people for their gender for no reason. I'm not saying there are good reasons to hate people, what I mean is that such individuals feel like this because of their past experiences.

And I'm not blaming men as individuals, but rather certain types of behaviors. Because it's clear to me that there's something very wrong in the way most men I met treat women.

Thank you for replying :)


SanXuary 5 years ago

In the work place it is a very difficult double standard. We live in a society where roles are becoming difficult from one place from another. Be a highly productive woman in the work place and take that home for instance. Men are not trying to be discriminating at times but our often lost in what role they are expected to play and even worst, circumstances often change the role. The result is that people are becoming less compatible and finding less in common and men feel that the risk is to much of a chance to take and we simply fill no role.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 5 years ago Author

Hi SanXuary,

I think you were trying to make an intelligent point there.


kenneth avery profile image

kenneth avery 5 years ago from Hamilton, Alabama

Lucy, I owe you a big apology. I am already one of your followers. I offer no excuse for my ignorance. I might say in my defense that today, I have been sick with a sinus cold plus the Accelerated Fibromyalgia and Neurothopy to deal with, well, the line in THIS hub, all men are useless....Lucy, I feel useless now. Sorry for the error but I DO ENJOY your hubs. Kenneth


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 5 years ago Author

Um, making men feel useless wasn't quite my intention with this hub. Sorry you're battling with all those health problems.


kenneth avery 5 years ago

Dear Lucy83, I know. And you DID NOT. "I" feel useless many times in my personal life. YOU are innocent. But I am glad that I am your follower and fan. You are an amazing person. And writing talent. Sincerely, Kenneth


John 5 years ago

Women don't need men! I'm being told this by women more often. Not sure what to think of it, or why I have to be told that. I didn't ask, I'm guessing TV shows are telling women what to say. Or?


John 5 years ago

Most men are Pervs! Yes this is true. But, on the other hand, I've had six female close friends in my life, long term friends. All of them have had more sex parteners than I, and one is so much a perv. I've spent a three day weekend with here and met all four of her bed buddies she had that weekend. I don't care who sleeps with who, pointing to a gender and making a blanket statement is not always true. Having two years of phsycology classes that delt with male and female sex, it seems we are equal.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 5 years ago Author

Hi John,

when women say they don't need men they are nearly always just comforting themselves or each other. It has absolutely nothing to do with truth or fairness.

"Most men are Pervs! Yes this is true. "

That depends on what you consider to be a "perv". I sure as hell can't see women as any less pervy than men - especially since I'm not exactly vanilla myself.


kenneth avery profile image

kenneth avery 5 years ago from Hamilton, Alabama

11/04/2011...DEAR LUCY...sorry to take so long, but THANK YOU, SINCERELY, for the nice comment to ME on ths hub. I shall remember it for a VERY LONG time. And I admire you and your talent as well. Kenneth


BereniceTeh90 profile image

BereniceTeh90 4 years ago

Hi Lucy, I just read this yesterday; sorry I didnt have time to comment as I was celebrating my granddad's birthday! Thank you so much for realizing that the grass is not always greener on the other side. I know that women don't have it easy either, as they have expectations to fulfill (e.g. being a good wife, being a perfect mother, and keeping up apperances), but it doesn't make the issues men face any less valid. I notice that when women take up certain "masculine" pursuits, e.g. Crossfit, Thai Boxing, gymnastics, engineering, etc, it is applauded by society. She is seen as being independent and strong. However, if a man were to take up traditionally "feminine" pursuits, e.g. Cross dressing, make up, nail painting, etc, he is seen as "debasing" himself. At best, those who criticize male femininity will question why he would want to degrade himself to such a state that the first-wave feminists have fought so hard to eradicate. At worst, he is labelled "not a real man", or "gay". I once asked a female friend of mine her opinion of crossdressers, and she told me bluntly, "Well if a man is wearing women's clothing, then he's automatically unattractive to me. I love real men." Which begs the question: What exactly makes a "real man"? Does a "real man" mean sticking to a traditionally rigid set of gender roles, just as "real women" stuck to their traditionally rigid set of gender roles in the 40s? (e.g. No trousers, no tank tops, no working out, No joining the corporate world) My hypothesis is that society is reluctant to permit men to explore the world of femininity because it would mean that they might be less obliged towards chivalry (yea i read your article on that one as well) and breadwinning, which would mean that it would be more difficult for women to find a man to take care of her in the financial sense. As I've said, men don't really have it easier. In Malaysian culture (I'm malaysian), many women leave the workforce after they get married because it is socially expected that men make the dough, while women spend it. I know of men who work from morning to night, while their wives spend the day shopping, catching up with friends, doing facials, etc. We typically hire maids to take care of the children, so that is not the reason why these women don't work. It is simply because while it is seen as a man's responsibility to earn money, it is seen as his wifes responsibility to look pretty and be a wife he can show off to his mates. Feminists may say it is debasing to womanhood, but they should also consider how debasing it is for the man. While she is an object; an ornament to decorate the house with, he is simply a moneybag who is expected to provide. Is it any wonder why Malaysian men age so much faster than their wives? They have a lot more stress on their minds!

p.s.: This is not to say all Malaysian women are leeches, but a great many of them are, and I do know many admirable, independent Malaysian women e.g. my mom!


mark 4 years ago

hi if i could change my gender i would have years ago but at that time in the 60s you never heard of such a thing im happly married yes have a good life but struggle every day with being a man ask me if i could have changed back then when iwas 15 yes i would have in an instant girls always have it made just look at the fashions and the media if your female your lucky as finding a trillion dollars


NAme 4 years ago

Thanks this was a pretty good article.


Jake 4 years ago

Good article! I see you have upset many female chauvinists (more commonly called feminists).


NWOslave 4 years ago

Don't take this personally, but this is why men really don't pay much attention to what women are saying. After the first hundred times you've heard it, and it's blasted out over the media and in schools over and over it becomes backround noise.


SilencingNarrative 4 years ago

I just followed a link from reddit to your blog. Thank you for writing this piece. I have read some of your other posts and I appreciate the way you ground your arguments with scenes from everyday life that most people could relate to. That's a rare skill and you do it well.

My eyes were opened up to the negatives of the male gender role a few years ago when one of my male relatives was destroyed by the family courts when his wife falsely accused him of battering her. He was promptly arrested and separated from his daughter based on no more than her say-so.

Since then I have been watching society more carefully in how it discriminates against men and my attempts to broach the subject among my family and friends are usually shut down pretty quickly. I have learned to keep my mouth shut and use the internet to have open, anonymous discussions as an outlet.

It means a lot when gifted writers like you wonder aloud what's going on and take non-trivial heat for so doing.

Thanks again.


Chris 4 years ago

Men are perverts? Than ladies, stop wearing skimpy clothing and posting pictures all over the internet.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Hi NWOslave.

On the whole I think men pay a lot of attention to what women say - far more than is good for them. Not only that, they often take an individual woman's word as representative of all women's taste. In all fairness, many women express their taste as if that were universal.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Oh is that were all the page views are coming from? In the last day or so there are like thousands on this page.

Thanks for your kind feedback SilencingNarrative


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

@ Chris.

what are you saying?


BereniceTeh90 profile image

BereniceTeh90 4 years ago

Chris: A woman who wears revealing clothing is no more asking to be raped/sexually assaulted than a man who wears skimpy clothing is asking to be gay bashed/sexually harassed. TBH, I have a thing for flamboyant, daring outfits as well, but it's just my personal style. I am not asking to be attacked, I am not asking to be called names, and it certainly DOES NOT make me sexually open to just about anyone!

=)

Lucy: I know, right! Even I tell people not to take my word for it when taste is concerned; because everybody's taste is... subjective! When a woman who'z put great pains into her appearance wants to know how she looks, I always tell them the same thing - Gorgeous. Because, even if she isn't exactly my type, there's 100% bound to be some man out there who will find her gorgeous. That way, I'm always telling the truth, because truly; beauty is in the eye of the beholder! And there are all kinds of beholders out there! =)


Sam 4 years ago

Most men these days are such spineless cowards because they don't stand up for there gender. Feminists do and say things about men all the time that if it were about women it would immediately be labled sexist and women always get away with this. I have heard of men being falsley convicted of rape and the women who lied got little to no jail time if this is what it means to be a man these days then I am ashamened to call myself one. Women are always blaming all or most men for things that some men do well how is that my fault or my dads or my brothers and they say there is no sexism towards men what a croc of b.s. I think anyone who says there is no sexism towards men is either ignorant or a liar.


Sam 4 years ago

There's a branch of feminism called separatist feminism heterosexual and lesbian now what they aim to do is to create women's cuture by rejecting mainstream culture by creating women's only spaces you know women's only gatherings. For heterosexual women they would go into celibacy or periods of celibacy and lesbians would sometimes by land grants or something for lesbian women only what they call lesbian utopias for lesbian women only. They have been criticised by other feminists saying separatism runs counter to many of the original goals of feminism and instead of creating equality it creates female centered societies in which men are subjugated to misandry. Separatists say that other feminists dont understand separatism and that many women dont respect womens culture well if that is what separatism is about then what is there to unserstand what is there to respect if men did something like that it would be labeled sexist how is it ok when women do that isnt that sexist.


Sam 4 years ago

Why do some women particuarly feminists judge all or most men without even knowing anything about them like there are some men who demand to be let into womens only gatherings and some women say these men are trying to control those gatherings like they think they control all or most other things in life well how do they know that they know nothing about those men feminsts are ignorant jerks. Some of them might even say men bother women ok just because those women are bothered by men that dosent mean all women are. I hate feminists, feminists have made me hate myself for being male. I think feminists deserve a bad rap if this is what it has come to. I am so confused and I dont have any straight answers I dont know what to do. Even though I have stopped reading those things they are torturing my mind. Lucy please I need your help I need advice please respond.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Hi Sam.

wow you really don't like feminists, huh? Can't say I blame you. I've never heard of these separatist feminists. Neither am I terribly interested in them.

Fanatic idiots exist in every aspect of human identity. Look at some of the religious fanatics or racists and the stuff they write. Radical feminists are only different in a sense that they seem to have a lot more public support (or less public scrutiny). I think that might be a leftover of old fashioned chivalry. Basically men in power are mistaking supporting feminism with being chivalrous towards women. When a male politician pushes forward a feminist agenda, his mindset is probably the same as if he holds the door for a woman. He not only mistakes feminists with women but also chivalry with courtesy.

That would explain why it's so easy to shut up men who criticize feminism - they just get labelled as somehow "un-gentlemanly".

I wonder if that won't eventually backfire. I mean the younger generation of men are a lot less chivalrous and more open to equal treatment so they probably won't be so easy to wrap around the finger.

Either way I don't think you can do much about that on a societal level (unless you're rich and powerful perhaps) but you can do something about it in your own personal circle. You can decide to not associate with idiots and not deal with the stuff they spit out.

It's the same thing I say to crossdressers. They can't expect everyone in public to accept men wearing women's clothes - but they can expect their friends to accept it. You'd be surprised how many of them allow their own partners to forbid them to wear what they want.


BereniceTeh90 profile image

BereniceTeh90 4 years ago

Actually Sam I had this EXACT same experience with a fellow a couple years back, a young male feminist bout my age, who used to live in the same apartment building with me back in my undergraduate days. My God, it was exasperating! You know, I once brought up the topic about how generally, the male body is seen as being less aesthetically pleasing than the female body, and how most heterosexual men in our society cannot possibly see their body in a "sexual" way (believe it or not, most straight guys I know subscribe to the stupid 1950s notion that the female body is more aesthetically pleasing than the male body, and that women don't have any kick out of seeing us nude as the male body is "boring" to look at), and are somewhat repressed by dress codes (because in many establishments, the dress code is such women can wear pants suits, sleeveless dresses, knee-length skirts, skirt suits, etc and be allowed in, while a man would have to wear a jacket and a pair of long trousers to gain entry; and in many nightclubs, women can come in in practically anything, but men would have to wear a sleeved shirt and long trousers, at least). So really; our condemnation of the fundamentalist Muslims and their attitude towards the female body is strange, considering our own cultural attitude towards the male body. And this was what caused him to hound me for the next few days. AND, to rub salt into the wound, he even marked out some pages in his feminist sociology book for me to read (so as to "educate" me) and passed the book to me, the ultimate form of passive aggressiveness.

Then one day he asked me, "What do you mean by "repressed""? And I explained, and he was like in his "daddy knows all" tone, "Ohhhhh I don't think so, man. A woman still has to wear a bra while a man can walk around topless". Then I explained that GENERALLY, women have alot more leeway as to how much skin they can show (e.g. dress codes at black tie events, nightclubs, weddings, cocktail parties, etc) while men have to cover up, AND THEN he went on by saying about how "women still got paid less than men (actually to be fair, I can't deny that), and proceeded to remind me that men are currently in a relatively privileged position compared to women, and blablabla, and how badly I would offend people (women) if my views became public", blablabla

So I argued that if women had the right to show X amount of skin, then men should also be allowed to show the same amount of skin in public without being labelled gay/discriminated against and vice versa. And he was like, "I'm still trying to understand... What is your rationale, for arguing for so-called male liberation. Because these complaints that you've made (about male fashion), are what one would typically associate with the... homosexual male community. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not calling you a homosexual, but I'm just saying that your choice of words is what people would commonly associate with the homosexual men."

Now I'm not saying discrimination against women is right, but the problem with many of these male feminists is that rather than fight discrimination on both ends of the spectrum, they try to somehow justify discrimination against men, by making it seem as if women are still the real victims in the end. It's almost as if they are afraid, as you put it, to stand up for men, and instead resort to victim blaming, in order to make discrimination against men seem not so bad.


Sam 4 years ago

No I dont like feminists. I am not a hatefull person I am generally a very happy person but I can say with certainty I have never hated anyone as much as I hate feminists. One of thoses separatist feminists once said boys will not be allowed in women's culture because they are indoctrined at birth and there mother will never be greater then there peers all that men know is to oppress and exploit and yet according to feminism only patriarchal men oppress. Also there was a feminist who said that I dont think men can be with us without draining us of our energies (I am not sure what she meant by that) and yet there are feminists who marry men. Feminists are hypocrites and cheapskates but fortunately you have taught me that what I mentioned above is not true that they are not always right and the existence of feminine men prove that and I thank you very much Lucy :).


Sam 4 years ago

Feminists brag about how they think they know what men think they think they understand men they think they know what makes men tick but they dont know or understand anything about what men think understand or tick. They think that if you do what some or all men say they will be nice but again they dont know that because they know nothing about those men. They never take the time to look at things from mens point of view they think men hate feminism because they want submissive women oh maybe some but not most of them. Men hate feminism because feminism is systematically discriminating men and what makes it sad is that feminists dont even know it. Thank you Lucy for giving me advice and peace of mind my mind will need more time to recover from this feminist indoctrination but you have given me a good head start thank you very much Lucy :).


Sam 4 years ago

An issue I want to address is in a previous comment I mentioned something about a lesbian utopia. Lesbian utopia's are an idea that has been disscused in feminist fiction the idea that male humans have soomehow been wiped out (usually by a disease) and women have developed a way to reproduce without men. It is called parthenogenesis (being capable of reproducing without sperm) it is unnatural in mammals unless genetic engineering is done. If humans could do that they would only be able to give birth to females. As a man and a human being that frightens me to death almost to where I want to kill myself to escape the pain and fear the idea of males not being needed or maybe wanted the idea of males being unloved and possibly wiped out somehow. If males were wiped out that would be androcide (the genocide of male humans) how will that lead to equality between men and women yes you woud have independence from patriarchy but no equality.


Sam 4 years ago

Just out of curiosity what do you think about feminists particularly radical feminists who say that they see the sexism in the world and women dont realise how far we are from equality. What are your views and opinions and I am sorry if I am writing to many comments I just find your hubs really interesting and they I find them somewhat theraputic because my mind has been bombarded with so much feminist indoctrination.


Sam 4 years ago

Why do some women say women love men, men hate them (I dont know wheather or not they mean some men or all men but either way it makes me feel low). Not every man hates women I swaer to God not all of us do and besides how do they know wht these men feel and dont feel they know nothing about these men. I am glad there are women like you Lucy you truly understand men where most other women dont and I am glad men like your boyfriend exist because they prove these women wrong but these women that I speak of make me feel like I am no good and worthless and they dont just make me feel that way but other men too. :'(


Sam 4 years ago

Women these days dont know how much harder men have it and how easier women have it they say that oh men are just pretending and men hate women and all men are the same and men dont care etc, etc, etc. These women dont realise what kind of emotional and mental harm they are doing to men and boys I mean when people say things like that about women and girls there is always someone or something to defend them but there is never anyone or anything to defend males. Women truly do have a louder voice then men and no one cares about what men feel or say well not every man is a lying, hatefull, selfish, scumbag regardless of what some women say or think.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

@ Berenice,

you know, now that you mention it, I think often the male feminists are those who are the most blind to gender discrimination against men. I had a big argument with one a while back and I suspected that he was really just politicizing his sexuality (he was into bdsm with him on top). He just couldn't and wouldn't see women as anything but slaves clearly because that's the way he liked them. Essentially he presented himself as the one good man who rescues the helpless womenfolk from their slave drivers. Probably he needed that as a justification for his fantasies which he perhaps subconsciously felt ashamed of.

Now I wonder if this isn't what drives many of the feminist men - a desire to view women as helpless combined with a sense of guilt for those desires. Probably they also project those desires onto other men - falsely assuming that all men have those same thoughts.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

You're welcome Sam :)

Also, try to remember that many feminists get into the cause out of weakness rather than strength. Many of the more radical types seem to be deeply troubled people. I don't think hating them is going to improve your life. Many of them hate themselves plenty already. They don't need help from you.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Sam, about your comment on an all female utopia. Please try not to take such insane fantasies to heart. There are fanatics in every activist group that have such madness. Just look at what some KKK people or nazis have imagined. Even most radicals would never want such a scenario because they lose their favorite scapegoat for the evils in the world.


BereniceTeh90 profile image

BereniceTeh90 4 years ago

Lucy: Yeh that's actually a very thought-provoking point you made! Many male feminists profess to be very strongly against patriarchy, but it seems that they don't want to think of women as anything other than the helpless victims who need "rescuing" from the big bad men; in other words, they themselves are ironically the most disgusting male chauvinist pigs out there. Because while old-school male chauvinist pigs don't make any secret about the fact that they despise women, these guys are cunning enough to pretend to be one of the "good guys", who idolize and respect women, but are really patronizing in the sense that they try to make it look as if they are "helping" these poor women, thereby giving them a twisted ego boost, and hopefully enabling them to gain access to certain "favors". (I don't know if this is true or not, don't quote me on this, but apparently I heard that the male feminist professor Hugo Schwyzer acts like a really nice guy on the outside, but sleeps with his students behind closed doors) So when a man brings up a MALE issue, they take it as a threat to their sense of authority, the feeling that they are the superior, over-privileged beings who are "saving" the poor, inferior, oppressed women. They sort of fancy themselves as being "high and mighty heroes", if that makes sense?. Which is why like the guy i mentioned, he has to vehemently silence men who do bring up men's issues, because he probably hates the idea that his gender might have "issues", thereby reducing it to the level of a "weak woman". (But of course, he would never admit it)

I'm very suspicious when a man calls himself a feminist, actually. There's an old saying that goes according to the lines of "A gentleman is simply a patient wolf." Now i'm not saying that ALL male feminists are like that, but if a man is going to say yes and amen to every single piece of feminist dogma he hears, yet attempt to silence men's issues as being non-existant (despite the fact that men's issues clearly do exist), I wonder if the patient wolf saying is really all that farfetched...


Sam 4 years ago

Thank you Lucy for the advice as I said in one of my previous comments I am sorry if I am posting to many comments I love your hubs and find them somewhat theraputic. Also I am patching things up with my mother (I left a comment about probems with her in your Female Supremacy article) appearently she has stopped using drugs and she is cleaning the house more and I am going to visit her more thank you very much Lucy. :)


Sam 4 years ago

@ Berenice

You are absolutely right and thank you for your comments towards me. Out of all the feminists in the world the male ones are the most blind they are so indoctrined with feminist b.s. they dont even recognize the discrmination towards men. Lucy has really helped me to recognize that feminists are blind to what they are doing. I spent a year and three months of my life in fear of feminism because of things that I have read and heard from feminists but Lucy has opened my eyes adn made me say to myself I spent a year and three months of my life being afriad of this a bunch of ignorant, egotisticle, self righteous, fools who dont know more then half of the stuff they are talking about. Nearly everything feminsts say and think is just theories and assumptions about peope and things that they dont even know anything about.


Sam 4 years ago

Lucy you said that these women have a feeling of self hatred. Now that I think about it that actually makes sense for example there was this women who said who do they (men) think they are they think it is there right to rape they (men) dont have respect. Ok how does she know what those men think she does not know those men or anything about them and how does she know they have no respect. She then goes on to say dont call me sexist but I dont care if you do because I knoe that only guys who are immature and egoist would deny it. How does she know that agian she knows nothing about those men you cant tell what people think even if you say you know and personally I think she does care if people call her sexist if she didnt care then she would not have said dont call me sexist. Then she goes on to say that exuse me your not the one who got used for sex exuse me your not the one who had to be pregnant exuse me you didnt have to feel guilty if you aborted the baby while those men are out there using innocent women. Innocent those women were not innocent and niether was she her and those women were the ones that were stupid enough to have sex without protection knowing full well that they could either get pregnant or catch an STD. Yeah just shows how much respect those women had for themselves and besides those were only some men. Yes those men are guilty but so are those women, women like her never take responsibility for there own actions and then they have the audacity to say that the world would be a better place if men didnt exist (she didnt say that some other woman did) NO the world would be a better place if ignorant people like that didnt exist. It seems to me that she is the one who is immature and egoist what would you say Lucy.


Sam 4 years ago

Also the a women who said the world would be a better place if men didnt exist I found her on a site called I hate men. She says there is nothing about men she likes and some stupid stuff about men how she thinks they are oversexed and disgusting and she agrees with SCUM manifesto that men are a biological mistake and that men are not even needed for sex because thy are not good at it (which I know is complete b.s. and I dont take any of this to heart it just helps me to talk about it, it helps me vent out anger) and according to her she has never even dated a man before. One of her commenters even said she is a kind hearted person (I dont know if that person was being serious or sarcastic but I hope sarcastic because this women is in no way kind hearted this women is the one with the problems). I post comments like this because talking about it helps me vent out anger.


Sam 4 years ago

I said in one of my previous comments there is this woman who said what do they think they are they think it is ther right to rape dont call me sexist but I dont care if you do because I know that only guy arei e and egoist would deny it. My problem with women like this is that they seem to think the are all knowing or all wise or something. How do they know what those men think and what they dont think you cant read peoples minds and how does she know what men have respect and what men dont have respect. Just because someone denies what she says that dosent make them immature or egoist maybe it is because they recognise that you cant tell what people think. And how does she KNOW as I said before I say again she knows nothing about these men. She also seems to think that women like her are innocent if they get pregnant or catch an STD well how are they innocent they were the ones that were stupid enough to have sex without protection YEAH just shows how much respect they had for themselves. Yes the guy is guilty but so is she, she should have used protection so unless she was raped she is not innocent. Women like this are cheapskates.


Sam 4 years ago

In a previous comment you said that if people are sexist to judge because of your gender that is their fualt. Well as I have said before I am not homophobic but I sometimes think that lesbian women (some not all) are that sexist because about half of the man hating that I have read on the internet and the stuff that I have commented on about half of it come from lesbian women.


Sam 4 years ago

(Sorry I forgot to type this in my last comment) I have read lesbian women say things like a benefit of being lesbian means that I dont have to deal with men that is a plus and deep down men are evil disgusting pigs and men are stupid and the lesbian utopias I mentioned. They speak of men as if they are hard to deal with and that men are a disease to be avoided and lesbianism is better. Well there was a woman like you Lucy who once said that being a lesbian in no way protects you from getting hurt in a relationship or even because of that relationship and it is not because men are scum or because they have a heartbreak monopoly on women it is because they are as human as women are and relationships are difficult at best. She also said holding a man responsible for something dosent automatically make him guilty of anything even if he is a cheating and selfish ex boyfriend. She also says the existence of lesbian domestic violence contradicts so much of what feminists think that most feminists are either deliberately or unknowingly ignorant about it by that they betray the women they call sisters if men are scum what does that make us. Lesbian domestic violence is so largely ignored that some lesbian women feel like they have been raped and can never form a relationship again. Feminists are hurting men and women.


Sam 4 years ago

What exactly is reverse sexism. There was this angry feminist who said reverse sexism is a male lie I am noy sure I know what she means. She also said that she is proud to be a man hater. As I have said I have stoped reading this stuff these are all past experiences I am talking about.


Sam 4 years ago

(A quote from a radical feminist.) as Shiela jefferys said there is something wrong with men. There violence towards others and eachother there insensitivity to the pain of others. I beleive we can modify there androgen like we do with corn and that men will just stay in there mancaves playing there ukulele's and leave us in peace. Well I am sorry that you feel that way and that males disturbe you that much but if you are that ignorant to generalise men say hatefull things about them and propose potentially fascist ideas on men women and possibly society then you are not a decent person.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

"Reverse sexism" is just another word game used to justify a war against imaginary oppressors. It's along the same line as "some are more equal than others".


Sam 4 years ago

@ Berenice

Some female feminsts call male feminists unicorns. Now what they mean by that is male feminists are illusive do they really exist or not they have a close yet questionable connection to female feminists.


Sam 4 years ago

Thank you Lucy. If you dont mind my asking how do I become a follower on here I really dont know how to and also I heard from someone that you are moving to another site if so may I please know where. I am not trying to sound like a creepy stalker or anything I just really love your hubs.


Sam 4 years ago

Misandry and misoginy are a lot like alcohol when people embrace them it is just like when they get drunk there true person comes to the surface. There inner ugliness is revealed.

A Quote From Sam Iler


Kevin 4 years ago

"The truth is, and it took me a few years of growing up to admit, that *without men, society wouldn't be better. There would be no society in the first place.* We'd just live like wild animals - our only aim in life would be naked survival from one minute to the next and with no time for complaining about gender inequality."

I had to laugh. Without men, women wouldn't be able to reproduce, indeed.

You show a little bit of sexism/misogyny yourself. You just need a few more years of growing up to understand.


Suzy Strong 4 years ago

Hi Sam, sorry you feel so negatively towards feminism. However, there are many different branches of feminism, and not all feminists hate men, nor do all feminists believe that "all men are the same". All they ask is that they be left alone when they dress a certain way. Not all men will ogle, but a few arseholes think they have the right to stare at any woman. Staring at anyone, male or female, is just plain RUDE! But, if you're a woman, some men believe they have the right to stare at them. Some women, like myself, will tell them to "eff off" in so many words. But, some women, just like some men - such as yourself - are more sensitive and fragile than others, and can feel very threatened and afraid of a man staring at her. After all, we're not mind readers, and do not know the intentions of the guy staring. It could be harmless, but it might not be, as well. Bare in mind that men are generally larger than women, and could easily overpower some of them physically. Whilst most men are harmless, not all are, and so women will naturally be on their guard if someone physically larger or physically stronger stares at her. Appreciate that many feminists become so because they were abused as children, by a father or uncle, etc., and they lash out at men in general because they are psychologically damaged. Not all women are feminists, and not all feminists are haters. Those who are usually have their reasons, and need help. Don't hate them; pity them! As for me, I pity the masculists and mysogynists. Why are *they* so hateful towards women? Vagina envy? I sometimes find that men who wish they were women, despise women as a result of their own jealousy that they were not born female. Let me get one thing straight: BOTH genders have their difficulties. Take the discussion about Malaysian women, above. What if they are not attractive? - They end up alone. No man wants them. This is the case in most cultures. If a man is unattractive, he can usually still find a reasonably attractive woman if he earns enough money. By contrast, a woman does not necessarily find an attractive mate if she is wealthy. Furthermore, in many professions, women often only get a job if they are attractive. Yes, this means that a talented male misses out to a less talented, but attractive female, but also the less attractive females have a much harder time fitting into society. The moral of the story is, life is shit for everyone who isn't female and beautiful, or male and wealthy.


Sam 4 years ago

Some feminists say that you are only a true feminist if you are lesbian or that women should devote there energies to women (that is what it meant when I quoted in an earlier comment I dont think they can be with us without draining us of our energies) and that lesbianism is an extension of feminism. I am not a feminist but I do know that feminism is not about what sexuallity you are or at least that is not what it was originaly about when it started. Just because lesbianism may work for them that dosent mean it works for all women. I sure there are women out there that are trying to please men rather then being really attracted to men but the only person that can really know that is the individual. This is just another example of feminists making ignorant assumptions and judgements about people and things they dont know.


Sam 4 years ago

Lucy I would like to ask you what you think about a particular lesbian feminist theory called Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence. It is the theory that not all heterosexual women are really heterosexual and that some Het women are really just trying to please men because they are thaught to through myths and stereotypes in virtually everything in life. The woman who theorized this said that heterosexuality is a violent political institution (not literally methaphorically) and that women should devote there energies to women. Examples that she uses in this theory are how lesbian mothers use to be seen as unfit, incest, I think genital mutilation, and things like that. As long as feminism is needed they should have a lesbian relationship or a lesbian experience (both of these are lesbian existence). Then will it be possible for women to decide if heterosexuality is right for them.

Things that she uses as proof of this and the flaws I have found in it are when a mother breast feeds a baby girl she has an orgasmic reaction (personally I think that is disgusting but even if that is true mothers feel the same way about boy babies), women having romantic friendships with other women (women have romantic friendships with men too), and Het women suddenly relising they are lesbian (that dosent prove anything there are women who dont realise they are lesbian until they are in there 30's or even younger) there are many more flaws I have found in this theory but I need know what you think first. Basically what she is saying is that women are inheriently lesbian wheather in the traditional sense that men often think or in her sense and lesbianism is an extension of feminism.

A proponent (a person who beleives in the theory) of this theory realised she is lesbian (which I have no problem with I dont care). She said that I dont think they (men) can be with us (women or feminists) without draining us of our energies I mean that is the point to heterosexual relationships. She might have said that if patriarchy did not exist they would all be lesbian (I dont know in which sense she means lesbian the traditional sense or in the sense that the theory said) she also said that nurturing men is business as usual (are you kidding I dont think it is business enough men are always told to put up and shut up). Another proponent said somewhat harshly men always trying to drain me of my sexual energy and that the reality is that men are unpleasent and oppressive in too many deal breaking ways I got to stay away from men it is for my own good (dude seriously what planet is this woman from she is making generlisations about people she dosent know). She also said when I realised I was done with men I mean really done with them (she says that as if men are a disease to avoid). There was another woman who said males are poison because her father abused her sexually (I am sorry that happened but that was only one man) and the woman I mentioned earlier responded poison indeed. I swear feminists are such Aholes they way they generlise men but that is a different topic.

Anyway please respond and tell me what you think Lucy I would really appreciate it. :)


Sam 4 years ago

One small little detail I forgot to put in my previous comment the woman who theorized that also said that there might have been documents and records about lesbianism that were destroyed in the past (most likely by the early catholic church in the crusades I think). If such documents and records really existed then we will never know if they really existed or not if they were destroyed. This is only a theory though so dont take it to heart it has been largely criticised by other feminists What this women was trying to do is to open women up to other realities which is what the women I mentioned in the previous comment were talking about (well just because there reality is that men are oppressive that dosent make it our reality and there are false reality's) and to discuss sexualitie's considered deviant namely lesbianism she in no way was trying to start a lesbian revolution.

Well as I said please tell me what you think of this theory I would really appreciate it thank you Lucy hugs Sam. :)


Sam 4 years ago

One of the women in my previous comment also said I am trying to make women realise or understand that we dont need men for anything we dont even have to beg. It is not that I disagree that a woman does not need a man but they way she says it kind of makes me feel that she is saying men are useless these feminists make me dout myself alot. I am probably just reading too much into this stuff but then again feminists read too much into a lot of stuff also.

Well anyway as I said before Lucy please let me know what you think of this theory thank you very much. :)


jacharless profile image

jacharless 4 years ago from Between New York and London

Lucy, what a great article. If fact, men the world over are actually believing and feeling (gasp! men have feelings) they are not needed any longer. Nearly 8 for 10 of males, in age range from 24 to 50, have become effectively inadequate to society. They no longer have the manly desire to work/provide for traditional the family; they were never needed to raise children, so that is out and yes, are becoming more feminine by marketing and essentially by force.

With the extreme rise of femininity and social movement toward it, there has also been a huge rise in mono/homosexuality and transgender from male to female. A study was done recently showing nearly 50% of men ages 21-41 would actually prefer being androgynous! Can you imagine that. Not even metro-sexual, semi-femme {CD/TV} or even transgendered -just neither male or female. This means there is a massive change happening in society. A society that is economically, socially and now legalistically driven by femininity -and not necessarily feminism. Although with excessive femininity comes an extreme female self-sustaining, empowerment concept.

University mate of mine thinks if it were not for instinct for women to want -excuse the wording- hot sex with a man, they would completely disassociate themselves from males altogether. He also believes there is a strange dissolution happening with women and the acceptance of mono/homosexual men as well. Conversations with average girls and corporate women equate the same response: "Their Okay, I suppose. They don't really bother us. But it isn't like we are going out looking for a shopping partner or gal pal -who really isn't a girl- just a guy being girlie. And there's nothing wrong with that, because, let's face it, who doesn't want to act or be like a women?" That was an actual quote from a collective his case study participants.

For myself, I seem to fall into the androgynous category. At nearly 40, successful, moderately good looking, intelligent, social, etc. my present relationship has been reduced to nothing more than a business deal, really. A deal that says all power is hers -child, wealth, home, etc. My purpose -well, what is it anymore? Oddly, she embraces it wholeheartedly yet despises it equally.

I know this is going to come off as totally chauvinistic, but who cares: Men, myself included, have not only lost their drive and place in today's society, they have also had it stomped out off them and forced feminized. At some point, when the men of society have finally given in, society will crumble into nothing. The last decade is more than enough proof.

James.


Sam 4 years ago

By the way those comments those women made were back sometime in 2011. And I really hope the woman who wrote the first two comments dosent take any of that stuff seriously it is just a bunch of idiots saying stupid stuff and mam please dont make generalisations about men who hate women because not every man does if that is what you were thinking well at least most of the men I know dont hate women.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Sam I though following is a s simple as clicking "follow" -perhaps you have to make an account or so.

I have a site but it's focused entirely on crossdressing search for "transvestite lounge" if you're interested.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Hi Kevin,

Obviously I wasn't talking about the inability to reproduce without the other sex. It should go without saying that the scenario is hypothetical and that my reference was to the contributions that men or women make to civilization.

And you can cut the condescending line telling me to grow up. Deal with what I said in an honest and direct manner or don't say anything at all. And back up accusations of sexism with fact while you're at it.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Hi Suzy,

"I sometimes find that men who wish they were women, despise women as a result of their own jealousy that they were not born female. "

If they want to be women then they're obviously not despising them.

Have you considered using that same thought and reversing the sexes? Would you say women entering management positions and wearing trousers is an expression of misandry?


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

About feminism and lesbianism, one thing I've learned from dealing with people commenting is that humans often take their sexuality and try to shape the world around it so everything fits and they feel normal and approved. Perhaps those lesbian feminists you talk about are motivated by that.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Hi Sam (about that theory of lesbianism being suppressed).

In this day and age, in the western democracies, lesbianism is hardly suppressed. Quite the opposite, people tend to celebrate it. Male homosexuality is another story.

Really I think people are to strict about separating heterosexuality from homosexuality. Women have on the whole the freedom to explore all of those without repercussions. This is why even many heterosexual women have had fun that their male equivalents have never had. I think men would benefit a great deal if they could allow themselves such avenues of fun without fearing stigmatization.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Hi jacharless,

those are some interesting statistics. Surely this varies greatly from region to region. Either way, I can only say - even though I love femininity in men, an actual woman would never be a substitute and I'm not just talking about what's between the legs.


Sam 4 years ago

Thank you Lucy. Also I would like to ask what do you personally think about marriage. Some people say it is an oppressive institution and that is should be abolished because it always benefits men. They say it gives them domestic labor and free you know what (female genitalia) I have to censore this because I dont want it to sound so crude. Personally I really dont care wheather or not it is abolished marriage is not really needed marriage does not make a relationship ultimately it is only a ceramony it dosent really bring us any closer then we already are. Well thank you Lucy I am learning not to listen to feminists and trying not to hate them so much even when they say this is proof that 99% of men are dirt that still does not make it true. That does not prove anything execpt these women had a lot of bad experiences with idiots. And thank you for telling me how to become a follower I am afriad I dont know much about the hubpages.


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Suzy. I am trying not to hate feminists so much but after so much negative things I have read about them it is hard too but I am learning and I have Lucy to thank for that she is giving me my self confidence back :). I do feel sorry for those feminists that have abused in a way I can kind of relate to them because my mother abused me, my father, and my youngest brother in some ways. My mother is a drug addict if you read the last few comments in Lucy's female supremacy article you will find the details. If hatred really is attitude and behavior as feminists claim then my mother trully despises me perhaps maybe that is part of the reason why I hate feminists (part of the reason not all) I know that I cant blame feminists for that but as I said read the last few comments in the female supremacy article and you might understand. So in a way now that I think about it I might be like those feminists that you talk about in some ways.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Marriage always benefits men? Really? I guess that's why every man's aim in life is to get married as soon as possible.

Seriously, for me I think marriage might be fun as a kind of role play game (I think a wedding with the gender roles reversed would be nice). But other than that it makes things more difficult for the couple. It's also terribly unromantic. Unless you do something wacky like my idea above, you'd just be living an endless series of cliches that countless people have done before. Not to mention involving contracts and all the legal stuff is a real romance killer.

I absolutely agree with allowing gay marriage by the way. In fact, I think it should be encouraged more than heterosexual marriage. Because there at least we can't get sex discrimination.


Sam 4 years ago

I have been on your transvestite lounge very interesting the more I read on there and your hubs the more I want to try wearing women's clothing more but I am a little worried what my dad might think he thinks that getting a sex change is an abomination if he feels that way about sex change I cant imagine what he might think of crossdressing.


Sam 4 years ago

There was a feminists who once said internalized hatred of women is in all of us. That dosent seem to make a whole lot of sense. Lucy what do you think of that.


Sam 4 years ago

Suzy the only feminists that I cant feel pity for are the more extreme ones. There was this one feminist who once said you cant even trust medical men just because of a few screw ups that one or two doctors did she even said men are trully idiots she is making generalisations about men she dosent even know and she has the audacity to say that men are idiots. But the feminists even more extreme then that are the ones who talk about exterminating men and those feminists I feel no pity for. Gebocide is genocide no matter who you do it to people will say there is justification and morality in that but nothing good can never come from something so monstrous only a person who is evil or insane would think anything good can come out of that. And those feminists I dont feel pity for I dont care how badly abused they were if they are willing to exterminate another group of human beings then I say those feminists deserve everything they get.


Sam 4 years ago

appearently there is a bit of a problem in Japan. They have made sex segregated train cars for men and women but mostly women because there are a lot of groopings in train cars and for men because some women falsely accuse men of grooping them for money. I understand that the men who do that are disgusting and annoying and the women who do that are gold diggers but isnt that sex segregation and a form a discrimination.


Sam 4 years ago

In the beggining of your article you said conversations like this are very common you have no idea how right you are Lucy. These days it seems like you cant go anywhere or do anything without without hearing or seeing male bashing. Just today on youtube I was listening to a song (Girls Just Wanna Have Fun I really like that song by the way) and one of the commentors said I wish there were more guys that didn't shatter us girls into nothing. I dont deliberately go looking for these things anymore as I said but even then I cant get away from it, it is everywhere. Here we have another idiot making stupid generalisations about men. Lucy what do you think of that.


Sam 4 years ago

There were five separatist feminists who said that patriarchy is responsible for womens mistakes (what the hell) how is patriarchy responsible for your bone headed choices you punk. And the other said that respect for men is unfortunate because it is undeserved (oh yeah and like you feminists do deserve it) what about men as individuals for god sake how is it that just because some men screw up that means all or most men dont deserve respect the third said that women (all or some I am not sure were brainwashed) brainwashed for or with what if you have an answer to that please tell me the fourth said something like if you do this or you do that they (men some or all I am not sure) are nice to you (ok what the hell are you talking about and why are you generalising again) and the fith one said something like women are often used (as a topic) for some kind of conversation they might offensive (in men's sheds) again please stop making generalisations about men. I swear it is good that I cant say profanities on here because if I could I would really bad mouth feminists. I keep saying some or all because it is hard for me to tell if they are talking about all or some and as I said before talking about this helps me feel better.


Sam 4 years ago

In one of my comments I said there was a feminist who said women need to take the natural world back for themselves. Well I think that might have something to do with that women's culture thing I mentioned in a previous comment another feminist said that we need to pull masculine culture out from it's roots men are not fit to lead it just isnt in them but I beleive they can learn from us (from women's culture). So my guess is that what they mean by take the natural world back for themselves is by overthrowing masculine culture (patriarchy) and replace it with women's culture (matriarchy). Lucy what do you think.


Sam 4 years ago

These separatist feminists I really feel sorry for there children. Some of these women have children what kind of example are they setting for them. Well anyway I am pretty sure that women who said women need to take the natural world back for themselves I am pretty sure she meant a matriarchy because she said that in response to another feminists article about women's culture which they accosiate with matriarchy.


Sam 4 years ago

They say you should never second guess any woman because there is no telling how many of them are putting on a haapy face but are being abused in secret. Well that is possible but you cant know for sure unless there is undebatable evidence.


Sam 4 years ago

What I am concerned about is if separatist feminism gets more support and credibility what then could misandry increase could men's problem's become more ignored. Lucy what would you do as a woman.


Sam 4 years ago

Some of these separatist feminists even say that women are fed mysogynist lies everyday and even in certain fields of science. Personally I think these women are reading to much into it but I am not an expert. Lucy what do you think.


Sam 4 years ago

There was another separatist feminist who said that women are being harvested for eggs. OK I dont know what she means by that or wheather or not that is true but seriously these separatist feminists should not be allowed to walk around freely they should put in stright jackets is what they should be put in because these women are psycho's.


Sam 4 years ago

There was another lesbian feminist who wrote a science fiction story about aliens who come to earth to mate with human women and wont let them breed with there own kind so the men are left sterile and the children are born with tentacles. I am not sure but the aliens are supposedly a metaphor for men (some or all) and the women are either all or lesbian (but most likely lesbian). I dont know if the sterile men are a metaphor or if the babies with tentacles are a metaphor but I got to tell you that this kind of offends me because it makes men out to be non human. Wheather or not it is talking about some or all I dont know it is somethimes hard to tell when feminists are talking all men or some men. There are times when I dont think I have enough things about feminists to complain about as I have a year and three months worth of feminist bigotry towards men in my head.


Sam 4 years ago

There was another lesbian feminist who went by the screen name (Amazon Mancrusher) now this was her personal point of view but she said that she beleived that androgeny gave lesbian women or at least her the hope that men would just dissapear and that we would live in a gender neutral society. Then she said and I quote then I learned the harsh reality that men dont dissapear and that it creates male centreredness because she thought only male genitalia is left and that androgeny is bad for women and dosent make things better for non heterosexual women. She happens to be the host of what she calls the SCUM conference which is related to SCUM Manifesto but I dont know exactly what they do on there I was to scared to look further.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Hi Sam,

That's a great compliment that you actually considered trying on women's clothes because of my writing. Thanks :)

Do you think crossdressing is a step up from getting a sex change? That's what it sounds like in your comment but I can't believe that.

I don't know how old you are but at some stage in life you will decide for yourself what you want to wear.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

"There was a feminists who once said internalized hatred of women is in all of us. That dosent seem to make a whole lot of sense. Lucy what do you think of that."

Whenever people claim to know what others have internalized, they're usually speaking for themselves.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

You're right Sam. There's no excuse for wanting to hurt others no matter what justifications they concoct in their minds.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Sex segregation is generally bad for two reasons:

1 - it's nearly always applied for the exclusive benefit of one gender.

2 - Anyone who doesn't identify clearly as one gender is screwed.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Sam. I appreciate your comments but can you please try to gather your thoughts and then comment. Currently the comment section looks like a monologue and that will put others off from joining in.


Sam 4 years ago

Whenever people claim to know what others have internalized, they're usually speaking for themselves.

Does that include people who think they know what others are thinking or there intent because that same woman said if men dont want to help in feminism it is because they dont want to.


Sam 4 years ago

So did you get that one comment where I asked do you think men get away with everything because I am curious about what you think of that and the woman I mentioned in it. If you need me to write it again I can just let me know. Thank you Lucy. :)


jacharless profile image

jacharless 4 years ago from Between New York and London

Perhaps pointless, but are people aware up until the LATE 17th century male fashion included corsets, leggings, hairpieces {wigs}, even make-up, parfum, etc. In Colonial America this was very evident. But, as the Puritan progression grew from hard labor of the common people, the fashion died out and was replaced by wool pants and heavy shirts for men. The fashion was generally reserved for the elite or upper-class, true. Thus it became a social mandate that men look like hard, chiseled laborers. The Puritans believed fashion was not for the working man. It eventually became standard attire: the work boots, flannel shirt concept, from where stereo-types of male bravado developed. Part of this made logical sense as men working farms or the cold Eastern weather as well as the Hot Mid to Far Western coast weather, was not very well suited -pardon the pun- for European fashion.

You might also find it fascinating that men wore dresses/tunics for thousands of years, shaved body hair, used bathing oils, salts, etc. This made men feel sexier. Today's society does not accept nor promote male sexiness, it promotes the female perspective of the male -or better said- the underwear sporting, muscular, Brut man. Women therefore dictate male sexiness in every respect. Men accept this, socially, as to continue attracting females. They have essentially been cattle-driven into a stereotype of conformity and are frowned upon expressing their sexuality.

Apart from this, as I believe mentioned earlier, men are both male and female. If we accept the Adamic concept, then Adam was both male-female otherwise known as Androgynous. So, to those who have strong religious application, it would be a good idea to inform the fundies.

James.


Sam 4 years ago

I am about to describe the worst experience that I have had with misandry (Sorry is I am putting to many comments Lucy but I have to get this out I have kept this in for months).

There was a site that was debating who is supperior male or female it said males were destroyers and females were creators (males can create to). One of the commentors said females are because females are the creative ones and the ones with that have had more concern for the well being of the human race. (She means creative as in artistic but men done artistic things to and there are a lot of men out there that have concern for the human race such as humanitarians and even if only a few men do it is a lot better then none at all not every man kills or makes weapons and such things.) She then says that men have turned forests into wastelands and polluted water. (Women have dont things like that to and not every man has done that there are a lot of men out there who work to protect those things such as environmentalists.) She says men are only capable of filth, and abuse, and stupidity. She then says man is indeed a unique mutation a hybrid in between apes and true humans. She says men are ugly because they have square heads, they fart to much, there bodys are to hairy, and there genitals hang like rotten fruit she then says anyone who finds beauty in these creatures must be blind or brainwashed by our unhealthy society (ok I know that is not true I looked up the definition of both blind and brainwashed and neither one applies to what she said blind is when you dont understand something and brainwashing applies mostly to political and religious ideology). She then says hopefully with advancement in gene therapys and nanotechnology we can bring women over towards the womans side (she means make them more lesbian) so we can help each other out (help each other out with what). She even says men are a waste of social energy there Y chromosomes are stupid and that men have had it too good for too long and that they have been put on a pedastal and worshiped (ok men have not it that good) she then says what have they done to earn the love of 99% of the human population (because not every man is like or has done what she is saying she needs to think of men as individuals because men are not groups). And in the ens she said I am dead serious about the elimination of the human male from this planet like the dinosaurs before them it seems they are doomed to the dustbin of history maybe back when humans were more primitive men were needed but that times is coming to an end and rightly so. And she said this was true (ok how can any of this be true and just because it is true to her that dosent mean it is true in real life I know for a fact that this is not true not for all men (certainly not for the kind of men like your boyfriend Lucy).

This scared me and hurt me so much that for the rest of the night I read this and most of the next day my heart felt like it was about to beat out of my chest. I practically cried myself to sleep I was so frightened and hurt. I have never felt so helpless or scared in all my life. Lucy what do you say about women like this.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Hi James,

thanks for such a fascinating piece of information.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

"that same woman said if men dont want to help in feminism it is because they dont want to"

Obviously they don't want to do something because they don't want to.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

"So did you get that one comment where I asked do you think men get away with everything because I am curious about what you think of that and the woman I mentioned in it."

Anyone who says men get away with everything is either a deluded fanatic or a liar. Just glance at the US prison population should be enough. There is a stronger case to be made that women get away with more than men.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

@ Sam

"Lucy what do you say about women like this."

I say that if your worst experience with misandry was visiting a fanatic website, then you're not doing too badly. You can choose whether or not you get exposed to such misandry. My main concern goes to those who get exposed to it and never had a choice in the matter. In particular boys who have to listen to it in school for example.

I told you before, that you can find fanatic hateful bigots in every kind of ideology. Even if the world was totally non misandric you'd still find such websites. It means nothing whatsoever. You're just hurting yourself by going back and giving them attention. So unless you enjoy hurting yourself I suggest you ignore them.


BereniceTeh90 profile image

BereniceTeh90 4 years ago

Lucy's right Sam; you're only hurting yourself by heading to these websites. I'm not a fan of mainstream "boy media" like Askmen.com and GQ, because I find many of their columnists and editors extremely priggish, sexist and elitist, but nowadays i'm finding that if i ignore the haters, and wear and do what i love, they have no more power over me than the sticks or stones.

Now; people are too afraid to criticize these people (like the fanatical lesbian feminist in question), because of the fear that they might be construed as "homophobic", for criticizing people like that. (PC gone mad)

But it has nothing to do with homophobia. It has to do with calling out a hateful bigot, who hates men in the same way the Nazis hate Jews. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that a gay dude were to say the same thing about women, that they are "ugly", and that men are better in so many ways, and that men are more "beautiful" than women? (There ARE lesbian women who actually say things like "the male body isn't "sexy"", and that "women are more beautiful than men", "women don't get excited over the male body, "the male body is less aesthetically pleasing than women's, which is why nobody wants to see it") I've seen all of that rubbish sometimes spewed out by people from the LGBT community. Should we be afraid to speak out against people who spew this hurtful, damaging rubbish out of their mouths, solely by virtue of their sexuality? No, absolutely not! Moronic bigots come in all shapes and sizes and skin colors and sexual preferences. Just because a person is from a minority doesn't mean they can't be an absolute a$$hat. I know Asians who are absolute douchebags, just as there are whites and black people who are absolute douchebags.

(I should probably make it clear that some of my best friends are gay men! haha)

So back to you.. As for you, Sam; i suggest you ignore people like these in the same way i ignore the guys from the mainstream male media. There's a contemporary saying that goes, "Why allow yourself to be so emotionally affected by people who do so little for you?" I think it's a profound saying that everybody should learn.


BereniceTeh90 profile image

BereniceTeh90 4 years ago

James, I hear you brother! Have you seen The Immortals with Henry Cavill or Alexander with Colin Farrell?

There was a time in Ancient Greece and Rome, when the male body was spoken of in very.. "Sensual" terms. The male body was seen not only as very beautiful, very strong, but also very SEXY. Imagine what our Greco-Roman friends of eras past would say to hear people describing the male body as "junk", and to hear some women say that the male body just "isn't sexy", that the male body "doesn't excite women in the way women's bodies excite men".

Back then, it was assumed that the male form was more "beautiful" than the female form, due to the fact that these societies were gay male patriarchies (many of the people in charge were homosexual, and there was no shame in homosexuality prior to the advent of Christianity)

Of course until recently, modern Western society has been largely a straight male patriarchy, the media and so on influenced by the "straight male gaze". Ever seen a 1950s Marilyn Monroe movie? Or visited a Geisha house? Yeap; the notion in such media is that only the female form can be "sexy", and that while women are to be looked at, men are the ones who naturally do the looking.

(In ancient Greco-Roman societies, it was the other way round!)

SO today, Western men are suffering the same thing that Ancient Greek women suffered - The feeling of their bodies never being "desired", so to speak. One of the Olympics male volleyball players was saying that he didn't really want to play in Speedos, because he felt that "women could never see the male body in the same way. It's just less beautiful". And then he got bombarded by online feminists of how this was an example of "male privilege", on how he "never experienced what it's like to be objectified", etc. But can you blame him? Since childhood he as a man has been bombarded with cultural messages and acceptable dress norms (like in a formal Western event women can wear classy plunging necklines and sleeveless gowns while men would likely be criticized heavily for not wearing a tie and showing abit of chest), which give his impressionable young mind the impression that the male form is less "sexy" and less "beautiful" than the female body.


Sam 4 years ago

I know and I take full responsibility for visiting those sites because that would be the mature thing to do but as I said that was months ago everything I am telling you know our just bad memories. That site where I had my worst experience I was so shakin up by it that I dont even remember where that site was or what I might have been looking up when I found it I blocked out about half of it fom my mind afterwards. My aunt, uncle and dad says I am wasting my intelligence on these idiots and that I am smarter then that and besides some of these things I am telling you about I came accross by doing nothing more then going on youtube or watching a movie or a show or looking up things on the internet that I actually enjoy. I am not asking for sympathy or pity in these comments I am just typing them because it helps me to talk about them and know what other people say. Well anyway thank you Lucy and I am sorry if I have caused you any trouble or given you a hard time I didnt mean to if I did.


Sam 4 years ago

I am going to stop commenting for a while and take a break but I will drop in from time to time and maybe leave a comment if I feel I need to I think for now I have left all the comments I need to leave. Thank you for listening Lucy and I apologise I have have overwhelmed you with too many comments or given you a hard time with them.


BereniceTeh90 profile image

BereniceTeh90 4 years ago

My mum once had a female lecturer at uni who didn't let the girls wear pants into class. If any girl wore pants into her class, they would be given a sound piece of her mind about personal decorum. But she was from the Downton Abbey generation, so it's totally understandable.

If she were a man, I don't think she would have gotten away with it. I read a post on Jezebel the feminist website about how women who dress in skirts and dresses are favored more by their employers and given higher pay, due to the fact that they are catering to the heterosexual male gaze. This skirt issue is filled with a slew of online comments which had tons of man-bashing ranging from "Women are pressured to wear uncomfortable sexualized clothing like pantyhose and forced to display their legs and secondary sexual characteristics through tight skirts", "Men are intimidated by a smart woman in a pant suit, which is why they want to keep women in skirts to keep them at their current status as eye candy for sleazy male employees", "Women are still judged by their appearance and men are not", and other less than savoury things. As a man, I feel a bit defensive when my gender is stereotyped like that because honestly, I don't care if my partner chooses not to wear skirts or dresses or heels, and opts for comfier, fitted tailored pants. Men are assumed to be vile wicked creatures who see women as pornographic objects, guilty until proven innocent. But i can assure you, MOST men from the Downton Abbey generation would have said that women should wear skirts, men should wear pants. It's how they were brought up, and it's not always about sexual objectification. Even our grandmothers would probably agree. Does that mean that our grandmothers are "sexually objectifying" women by forcing them to "perform for the patriarchy"? It's not right to force women into skirts, but i hate it when people point fingers at "lecherous men who see women as nothing but sex objects". If it were a traditional woman like my mum's lecturer, would she be bashed so vehemently, as compared to a traditional, old-fashioned man?


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

""Why allow yourself to be so emotionally affected by people who do so little for you?"

That's really good.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Sam you didn't cause trouble and don't need to apologize.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

@ Berenice,

women are pressurized to look pretty. That much is true. And men are under other kinds of pressure (like having a high status job). If they're going to blame men for the pressure on women to look pretty, then they also have to blame women for the pressure on men to get careers (which then also explains the under representation of women in high positions). Of course they'll never do that. Men must remain their scapegoat for everything - every failure in their lives and every disadvantage they think they have - whether it exists or not. It's pathetic.


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Lucy I dont know if this is the right place to ask this or not but do you plan on doing anymore hubs.


Sam 4 years ago

Thank you for the advice Lucy and Berenice. Even now I am not entirely sure why I kept visiting those sites (but I honestly have stopped visiting them) but that does not matter now what matters is that I move on and live my life as long as I am not hurting anyone or anything. I will still have memories and thoughts of these things but I have to remember that they are just memories and thoughts they cant hurt me. Maybe I have just forgoten two of my most important philosophys just because someone says this or thinks that, that does not make it true and everything is opinion until proven otherwise. I need to stop worrying about what these feminists and man haters say and worry about things that are more importance to me personally. My cousin recently died at the age of 30 and my grandfather only has six months left so I need to focus on him. Thank you for the advice maybe I will drop by again a little closer to halloween.


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

This may not be the right place to ask but I need a little help. I am trying to start my own account on the hubpages but I am having a little trouble. I got the username, email, and password but I cant figure out that last part with those jumbled up words. I took it to my dad but he cant figure it out either and I was wondering if you could help me if you cant I understand thank you anyway. :)


BereniceTeh90 profile image

BereniceTeh90 4 years ago

Hey Lucy; i absolutely agree that there has been tremendous pressure on women to fit within the notions of hegemonic femininity (it was especially prevalent in the 1950s). Now I'm no feminist, but I do find it to be a strange coincidence that of all the "Women of the Year" GQ magazine places on their covers, not a single one of them has clothes on, yet all the men are fully clothed. Furthermore, in all these years since GQ came about in 1931, they could have placed anybody from Hilary Clinton to Ellen Degeneres, to Oprah Winfrey or Aung San Suukyi or Lady Ambiga (the woman who organized the latest Malaysian anti-government rallies), but that's never happened.

I'd really like to see something abit fresh and novel in the men's media, to break the monotony of the endless 1950s gender stereotypes. (They even had an issue which was recommending a certain pre-packaged frozen dinner if the girlfriend/wife was out of town and you're home alone, hence they clearly have a stereotypical 1950s "pretty sexy woman in the kitchen" image, when it comes to gender roles, sorta like how Tony Abbott was saying "The housewives of Australia have to be aware when THEY do the ironing")

It's almost as if these men cannot "like" women simply as "people", and can only enjoy their company when they have been visually tailored to meet their heterosexual male aesthetic desires. But then again i've always considered GQ to have a certain "bogan" (chav) vibe, for more reasons than one.

I just came across this blog by this lady who was saying that most of the women (including her) she asked on whether they found the male or female form more "sexy", "sensual" and "aesthetically pleasing", would pick the female form, and she was also saying something on how women could never appreciate the male form in the same way men appreciate the female form due to cultural conditioning in modern Western society (women over-sexualized, men under-sexualized, hence no erotic pics of men), and how men's bodies just don't have any effect on straight women due to that.

http://broadblogs.com/2011/01/10/women-seeing-wome...

Some quotes from the blog include:

"While in surveys women say they find men sexier, when they are wired up, their vaginas say something else. I’m sure this is cultural and not biological."

"While I would call the female body more erotic, I’ve never wanted to have sex with a woman."

"... If I’m secretly lesbian because I’ve been bombarded with sexualized images of women that make me see sexually-dressed or posed women as sex objects (who I don’t want to have sex with) then pretty much all women are. All women in the study I cite were more aroused by a nude woman than a nude man. That doesn’t make sense biologically. Biologically most women are hetero. Seeing woman as sexier only makes sense in terms of socialization that comes on top of biological preferences."

(To a woman who said she could appreciate the male form erotically and aesthetically in the same way as men appreciate the female form):

"But strong patterns do arise among humans of similar cultures, and according to research you’re quite unusual. Sounds like you’re even unusual among your friends and acquaintances.

That’s neither good nor bad, but you’re an outlier, and you shouldn’t be accusing others of being crazy for living in a culture that teaches them that women are the sexy half of the species."

It's extremely depressing for men to hear such quotes from an apprantly heterosexual woman; I'm almost afraid of hearing how she would explain gay male sexuality.

But she also says that most women don't fit the narrow ideal of Anglo-Saxon culture (e.g. those nude GQ models), so really; most average women feel no more "sexy" than the average man feels.

(But in recent years there have been plus-sized campaigns for women, and some very beautiful women of diverse shapes and sizes have made headlines, e.g. Crystal Renn, Lizzie Miller, so i'm not sure that theory is still valid. Although no one ever tells boys that they are "pretty", and hardly anyone tells men that their bodies are "beautiful", in the same way as women's)

I did however find a post by the Australian journalist Clementine Ford, called Why naked men don't sell http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opin... , and Ford seems to have a different approach to this author. Rather than just dismiss women's desire for the male form as non-existant, Ford says that it's there; women love and are as enchanted by the male form as much as men are by the female form, but are just too shy to admit it, for fear of being thought of as "sluts". (That's basically the gist of her article)

I rather like Miss Ford's take on it better; i felt really depressed after i read Broadblogs' post last year, but when my mum showed me Ms Ford's article the other day, my mood lightened up alot. To me, Ms Ford seems alot more honest, and comfortable with her sexuality than Broadblogs is. I think Broadblogs is still in a way, trying to discover her own sexuality, and may perhaps be bisexual with a stronger attraction for women. (That's just my opinion dont quote me on that haha) Men's bodies ARE as beautiful and as enchanting as women's, and i won't live in doubt any more.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

@ Sam,

At the moment I don't often find the time for writing posts but I do plan on writing more.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

@ Sam,

about starting a hubpages account, I'm happy to help (and so will many others be - this is quite a friendly community). I'm not sure what "jubmled up words" you're talking about though. Perhaps you can paste them here and I can take a look.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

@ Berenice,

but if women's apparent preference for the female body is a result of being shy expressing desire for the male form, surely they'd be even more shy to express desire for the female form because of homophobia. I mean, sure lesbianism is far more accepted these days but surely it's not more accepted than heterosexuality.

I think it really is a cultural thing and it also ties into most if not all other gender issues. The lack of mainstream objectification of men also devalues them in other areas. That puts men in the situation where they have to kind of earn their value. This creates a lot more pressure and leads to the gender disparity that we see in most professions. Sadly, even those men who do earn their value successfully often find themselves facing accusations of patriarchal advantages and discrimination favoring them. So for men there seems to be no way to "get it right", to have their value unconditionally earned and acknowledged socially.

This is upsetting me too much now.


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

The junbled words that I was talking about it's when you go into join now and go to the bottom of the screen and you have to type in two words but you have to type them in correctly. That is the part I have trouble with I have read the help button and I still can't figure it out. If you could help me with that part I would really appreciate it. Thank you Lucy. :)


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Lucy I have just recently heard from someone that hubpage is a scam. Now I am not reading to much into it I just want to be sure what do you think of these accusations of it being a scam.


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

You said in your article that men are becoming more feminine well that kind of reminds me of something that feminists talk about. They talk about how men need to be reeducated well if they are becoming more feminine then they kind of are or already have been reeducated. Some feminist talk about how men need to be more feminine (which is alright) because according to some feminists anything masculine is bad. Well anyway I just thought I would bring that up because it kind of reminds me of that. :)


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

@ Sam

"The jumbled words "

That must be a captcha system. That's just to test if you're a real human and not a computer program signing up millions of accounts automatically. You're supposed to read those letters and type them in the box. Sometimes they're hard to read, then you can usually refresh them to display another set of letters (there is sometimes a button that looks like a refresh symbol - one or two arrows going around in a circle).


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

@ Sam

"Hi Lucy I have just recently heard from someone that hubpage is a scam. Now I am not reading to much into it I just want to be sure what do you think of these accusations of it being a scam."

Nonsense. I've been here for years and there's been nothing fishy whatsoever. Sure, I find their policy on mature content pretty harsh but that isn't dishonest.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

About your comment on men becoming more feminine and that being part of feminist reeducation:

I think that feminists don't really want that to happen. They might think they want it but the consequences would be fatal for feminism in the long run. Currently, feminism is surviving on male chivalry, a classic masculine characteristic. For feminism to work the way it has been, it needs men to be firmly trapped in their classic gender role of the patriarchal provider and protector.

If men started to break that role in a big way, feminism would loose its power base entirely.

Those free men would rightfully ask themselves "wait a second, weren't we supposed to be equal?" when they encounter feminist misandry.

So a man who liberates himself from gender roles and wears what he wants and acts as feminine as he wants, is actually working against feminism.


Sam 4 years ago

Thank you Lucy also there is something else that I thought. I have noticed that feminists always say that women should do this or women should do that or that women should devote there energies to other women or that women need to do what feminism says. Feminists say that feminism is about choices and oportunities and letting women do what they want and what makes women happy well how can that be true when they keep telling them what to do. Feminists need to stop being selfish and stop telling women what to do and let them do what they are happy with just because this or that works for them and makes them happy that dosent mean it works for other women.


BereniceTeh90 profile image

BereniceTeh90 4 years ago

LOL Lucy, this reminds me of my grandfather who is turning 87 in december. Now grandpa lived though the British Occupation of Malaya, so he's very traditionally English in the way he does things, and he speaks better English than most people a quarter his age. Anyhoo; he was telling me when i was a little boy something like, "Now remember - You must make allowance for women, and open doors for them as they are the weaker sex." (Grandpa was born in an era before the advent of political correctness)

But see, here's the problem; we boys have been trained to overlook everything women do and say, that most guys are happy to forgive a woman for a transgression that would have resulted in a punch if it had been a guy doing it.

Like take for example this highly offensive article:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/2012/5-things-men-are-no...

If a guy had written a similar article, the feminist community would be up in arms! His page would be flooded with lots of angry, vicious comments. But if a woman does it, most guys have been taught to "take it in their stride", and just laugh it off. Because it is somehow "ungentlemanly" to attack a woman verbally. So we've been trained from a very young age to just turn the other cheek whenever a woman wrongs us, because "it's all part of being a gentleman" (according to my mum)

Such articles are common on the media, and these women behave as if men are simply Ken Dolls who are supposed to dress according to their partners' whims. Kayne West received a SLEW of angry, hate-filled comments for controlling what Kim Kardiashan wears. But nobody bats an eyelid when the genders are reversed. (Like; a wife might "allow" her husband to wear women's clothing, so long as it is kept within the confines of the home.)

Even i find this trait in myself sometimes. I know that GQ for instance is a sleazy men's magazine which puts half-naked women posing provocatively next to fully dressed men. For some reason, i take more offence at this (because it paints a bad picture of me as a man) than Ellen Degeneres putting half-naked men on one of the episodes of her show for the benefit of her female audience. The fact is that if she was a MAN, putting half-naked women on HIS talk show, he wouldn't be able to get away with it. People would be outraged, and there would be a ton of angry articles written against him. For some reason, the sexualization and degradation of my own gender doesn't offend me half as much as the sexualization and degradation of the female gender, but i suppose it's because i've been subconsciouosly conditioned since young to be that way.

I duno Lucy; it seems that we men have been conditioned into making allowance for ALOT of the things women do. And it seems that many women want to have their cake and eat it e.g.

http://style.uk.msn.com/socialvoices/blogpost.aspx...

"it’s about our TRADITIONAL ROLES. As I said, please make yourselves look gorgeous, men, but don’t be the high maintenance one in the couple."

Traditional roles? I take it she would like to go back to the 1950s, when women stayed in the kitchen, girls weren't allowed to play sport, and men saw their wives as Barbie Dolls? I highly doubt she would like that. Hence, that's what i mean by "having ya cake n eating it"; Enjoying all the benefits patriarchy has to offer (free meals, opened doors, being treated "like a lady"), while being free to wear anything she wants, be paid equally, and pursue whatever path she likes, "since we don't live in the bad old 50s anymore".

But of course, when a man tries to speak up for himself and his freedoms (or lack thereof), BAM! You'll find the same kinds of women getting really defensive, eg. my feminist friend, who said "Men think the world is against them but the truth is men have historically been the privileged gender. Now men are all going "Oh but what about our rights"? when women have only gotten a little more equal to men."

A statement like this can easily shut most decent men up, out of guilt and shame. Hence, the reason why men feel reluctant to stand up for their gender's emancipation. The fear of feminist backlash. I think deep down, some feminists do want to preserve hegemonic masculinity, while emancipating their own gender role, because as i've said; they can "have their cake and eat it".

e.g. Be free to choose the path of trophy wife, yet at the same time have an equal say as her husband, and be allowed to boss him around and control his actions, dressing, etc (since a chivalrous man is supposed to jump thru hoops for the woman of his life and do everything within his power to make her happy), despite the fact that he earns all of the family income


BereniceTeh90 profile image

BereniceTeh90 4 years ago

And that feminist friend in question of mine once asked me, "Chris (that's my real name), do you know any female-only Muay Thai (Thai boxing) clubs around? I'm thinking of starting Muay Thai."

I had mixed feelings about this.

1. I am extremely happy for people to embrace Thai Boxing, as it has given me joy words cannot explain. In other words, you might say I'm a Nak Muay (muay thai fanatic)

2. BUT, wait. FEMALE ONLY muay thai club? See the irony in that? You do know that Muay Thai was at one point a "male only" sport, right? That was EXACTLY the kind of sexism that women were subjected in the past. But due to the advent of idealistic, fair-minded male martial arts masters who believed that women were in no way inferior to men, women were thus allowed to take part and learn, which is why it was due to these MEN, that women are now free to pursue things that were once off-limits to their gender. Isn't that like biting the hand that fed you, to ban men completely? (despite the fact that Thai Boxing was founded by a man.) It's just that some feminits seem to conveniently forget the good men have done, when it comes to pursuing their own agenda.

Isn't it a tad hypocritical to treat men the same way women used to be treated in the bad old days? How is reversing the gender roles from "bullied" to "bully" going to make society any more "equal"?

3. I told her i would look around and let her know if i found anything, but the truth is i would NOT recommend any club that was so blatantly sexist and hate-filled. How is that any morally different from banning say, a black person, or an asian person from joining? A true martial art society welcomes people on the basis of merit and sincerity. They don't care what color you are, what gender you are, or even what religion you are. A Muay Thai club that bans a certain subgroup of people for their color, gender or religious beliefs is NOT a reputable Muay thai club. The best instructors with integrity will not accept offers to teach in such shamefully discriminatory clubs.


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

Do you personally think that heterosexuality is a right or a natural attraction. The reason why I ask this is because that comment I wrote about lesbianism being suppresed well the woman who theorized that said that heterosexuality is an emotional and sexual right that men need to be stripped of until feminism is no longer needed. Personally I dont think it is a right I think it is more a natural attraction just like any other sexual orientation because 1 men come from women too just like other women and 2 all humans including men are inheritently female they just need a change of chromosomes to make them male.


Sam 4 years ago

women are pressurized to look pretty. That much is true. And men are under other kinds of pressure (like having a high status job). If they're going to blame men for the pressure on women to look pretty, then they also have to blame women for the pressure on men to get careers (which then also explains the under representation of women in high positions). Of course they'll never do that. Men must remain their scapegoat for everything - every failure in their lives and every disadvantage they think they have - whether it exists or not. It's pathetic.

I could not agree with you more Lucy. Women these days (some not all) like to think that every damn thing is mens fault even when a woman does something it is still mens fault. Women are always saying we dont need men well there is one thing that women will always need men for women will always need men so they can point there fingers at them and say there's the bad guy right there even when a woman does something so there is another reason why feminists (some not all) cant exterminate male humans because if they do then they will have no one to blame but themselves when something goes wrong.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Hi Berenice.

I have wondered about martial arts but never actually went through with it. I'll take another look now.


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Berenice

I am sorry that your feminist friend feels that way. No offense to your friend or anything but I simply just can not imagine myself being friends with feminists as I do not consider them friends I find them so offensive that to me they are enemies and that is all I will ever see them as (except for the ones that have been abused them I will offer some sympathy) I sometimes in my mind call feminists feminies (a combination of feminist and enemy). Feminists dont know the real truth even when it stares them in the face and the real truth is that men are being systematically discriminated and feminists are so blind they dont even know it. I sometimes think that feminists are cowards one because they dont have the courage to accept the fact that women are no better then men that women make the same mistakes and two because they completely ignore mens problems as if they dont exist and your right everytime a man does or says something like that it is sexist but appearently when a woman does it or says it, it is not sexist.

As for men historically being the privillaged gender there are lots of men in history that were anything but privillaged. What about Black men (and women) in slavery or Greek and Roman male (and female) slaves those men (and women) were regarded as animals and lets not forget about the way Native American men (and women) have been treated only in a world this biased towards mens problems could you even think that those men were privillaged and keep a straight face about it. And besides from evidence that we have from the Celtic culture (which I happen to be partly decended from I am Irish on my mothers side) males were not privillaged if anything they were actually equal with women. From the evidence that we have it seems to suggest that men and women were equal the only reason we dont here about it so much is because most records of Celtic culture was destroyed and suppresed by the Romans.


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Berenice

Just a reminder that I meant no offense or anything like that toawards your feminist friend as I said in my previous comment I just wanted to make that clear and to make it clear that I just choose not to associate with feminists.


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

Men must remain their scapegoat for everything - every failure in their lives and every disadvantage they think they have - whether it exists or not. It's pathetic.

That reminds me of something that I heard about once I think about a year ago. I heard once that there was this teacher that got arrested because she was molesting this teenage boy and appearently he did not resist appearently he actually wanted more of it. One of the commentors said I think the socialization of boys is always trouble. Girls are sugar and spice. They are at least partly to blame for these attrocities.

In my mind half of me is thinking how dare this woman (or man I am not sure which) blame it on the boy even if it is just partly but at the same time another half of me kind of has to agree with her (or him) because although he was a minor he was a teenager old enough to know that what she was doing with him was wrong. I just dont know what to think of this so I stopped thinking about it, it got to confusing.


Sam 4 years ago

@ Jane

As for women who say all men are alike, my come back is all women are alike in the fact they are so negative about everything.

And women will get all ticked off when you call them things like that . They have no problems calling all or most men and boys perverts, all the same, jerks, and pigs and yet when a man calls them that they are like (I hate it when men say women are all the same MEN ARE ALL THE SAME THEY DONT KNOW A GOOD WOMAN WHEN THEY SEE ONE THEY ARE IDIOTS.) Well the way I see it if these women call men things like that they better be prepared to be called things like that back because what goes around comes around.


Sam 4 years ago

@ Lucy

Yes I know and agree. But it is a problem caused by both men and women. In society we tend to think of things like this:

If a man does something bad, he's evil.

If a woman does something bad, it's because someone drove her to do it - usually a man.

People just can't seem to want to assign the same responsibility to women as they do to men. That ultimately holds women back.

@ Steven

I'm a 19 year old male and I have felt like that all the time in my life. I'm always wondering if the girl im talking to is afraid of me thinking im a rapist or something. women constantly make me hate myself for being a guy. Saying things like "All men are the same", like my mom has, or "I hate all men", it really makes me want to just kill myself sometimes.

Well at the end of the day women who hate men have nothing of substance for decent people. Women who hate men, say things like (the world would be a better place if men did not exist), say things like (if they (men) would all dissapear I would not shed a single tear), and want to exterminate men at the end of the day women like that are just more bigots and when they die no one is going to care because all that they left in the world was more hatred and ignorance.


Sam 4 years ago

The truth is, and it took me a few years of growing up to admit, that without men, society wouldn't be better. There would be no society in the first place. We'd just live like wild animals - our only aim in life would be naked survival from one minute to the next and with no time for complaining about gender inequality.

Well feminists and misandrist's dont care about men or there problems they say things like (I am a misandrist and nothing will ever change my mind). Well if these women are that ignorant and that careless that is their fault and their problem but it does not bother me anymore because they are the ones with the problem not me.


Sam 4 years ago

Honestly, most of us women have no idea how much easier it is for us on average.

Some women say that women are still treated like second class citizens. I dont know if that is true or not if it is I really can not imagine how I mean it could be so much worse for women like how it was back in the 1930's or even older. I know that in some parts of the world women still have it pretty bad like in Islamic country's were women are still stoned to death (but so are children and sometimes men) and forced to cover themselves up but all we can do is keep working to make things better for those women we cannot expect perfection at once we have to work for it.


Sam 4 years ago

Lucy just out of curiosity why is it that not every comment I leave gets posted I have noticed that sometimes when I leave a comment it does not get posted. Thank you


Sam 4 years ago

Lucy have you ever heard of a man here on hubpage who goes by the screen name wabound he talks about how women should rule the world because it would be more peacful if they did and how women need to teach men how to love. I have never read any of his articles but I have seen his account. In my opinion I think this guy is kind of foolish the way that men like him and Dali Lama think that the world would automatically be more peacefull if the world were ruled by women. Women do violent and horrible things too and women are not always so loving and nurturing I have experienced female cruelty first hand by my mother. Lucy what is your opinion on what he says.


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

I would like your opinion on this. They say that the reason why lesbian couples sometimes batter and abuse each other is because of homophobia and lesbian women who beleive in a lesbian utopia also say homophobia might be the reason why a lesbian utopia cannot be established because we have all grown up in a homophobic society they say. Lucy what is your opinion on that please let me know.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

"Lucy have you ever heard of a man here on hubpage who goes by the screen name wabound"

Oh yes. I argued with him on one of his terrible articles. Waste of time. He's a lost cause blinded by his fantasy image of women.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

On the homophobia question and battering, I really don't know. I do know for sure though that a "lesbian utopia" is a fantasy that has no chance in becoming real ever.


Sam 4 years ago

@ Lucy

Then I guess that would include that women's culture thing that separatist feminists were talking about. There was this one separatist who said that women are getting into it more (whether she was talking about feminism or women's culture I don't know) but I kind of doubt that is true. They also say women already have a culture and it is beautiful well if there idea of beautiful is subjugating men and boys to misandry then I think there idea of beauty is horrible. Feminists are always whining and complaining how they are always accused of man hating well I say to them you cant deny what you are there attitudes about men and boys very clearly demonstrate that they hate men and boys. They always say things like I wish men would just stay in there sheds permenatly and leave us alone and I think I heard one feminist say that women (some or all) should leave there husbands because it is bad for feminist autonomy or something like that same with fatherland and there racist, specieist, fascist roots or something like that or whatever any of that is suppose to mean. And feminist wonder why people call them man haters HA I swear feminist are the biggest liars and hypocrites it has ever been my misfortune to come across well in the end they are just more bigots wearing the sheep's clothing of equality.


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

There are a couple of topics that I want to talk about I will talk about the second one in my next comment. Now I am not transphobic or anything like that but I sometimes get the feeling that some (not all) transgender people may hate there own gender. I read on the internet once there was this guy who said he either disliked or hated being a man and that he identified being a feminist. He didn't actually say he hated men in general but he does not feel comfortable being a man. As I said I am not transphobic and I don't think all transgender people are like that but I suspect some are what do you think.


Sam 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

I recently came across two articles in your article Women Who Like Men in Womens Cloths I read a little of the first one but not the second one. The first one is called Why are Men so Chauvinistic.

Here is a quote from it.

Why do men look at pictures of naked women all the time and think it's there god given right?and why is everything geared around what men want? Well I say what about us women!

I recently watched a program on TV about legalizing brothels in the UK ,on the program they showed a bunny ranch in the U.S.,and I just happened to say to my husband,why don't they have brothels for women?why is it all about men? I was annoyed by his reply,which was more or less why would a woman need to go to a brothel? my response was why not? in fact I questioned why he thought a woman's needs were any different to a mans,in his opinion they were very different.

The other article was called Are Western Women Still Oppressed Victims? That first woman who asked why are men so chauvinistic well my response to her would why are so many women these days (some not all) so chauvinistic. Western women still think they are victims they still think men hold all the power they still think men needs are always tended to. I read somewhere once that many Western Women have what is called a victimhood blame mentality where they think they are always the victims of something which makes them female chauvinists.

Lucy what is your opinion.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Sam,

about the transgender people who hate their own gender, you aren't wrong about that. Some are indeed motivated by that. I can't say how many, but I can say for sure that they exists. Some of them may very well be attracted to feminism even if only for the name alone.

Sam if you have so much to say, then why don't you write your own articles? This comments section is starting to explode.


Sam 4 years ago

Thank you for the suggestion Lucy. I would like to start my own hubpage account but I can't figure out the captcha system and my dad can't figure it out either I need to find someone who knows how to do it. Well anyway I am sorry if I left to many comments if I have anymore I will try to post them in other articles or at least try to make them shorter.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Hi Sam,

that would be great if you could start your own blog. The captcha system is very common. I'm surprised you haven't come across it before. You just have to type what you see.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

Hi Lucy it is me Sam I just wanted to let you know that I have an account now and I am following you now. I have not written any articles yet but I will learn as I go along. I am going to write some articles about paleontology first (I love paleontology) and maybe later on write some articles about mens issues. Thank you Lucy. :)


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Welcome to the hubpages club then Sam.

Will be interesting to see what you have to write.


BereniceTeh90 profile image

BereniceTeh90 4 years ago

Welcome, Sam! I'll follow you as well =D


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

Thank you very much Lucy :). I am going to write articles about dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals first (I love dinosaurs) and articles about herpetology (the study of reptiles and amphibians) later on I might write some articles about mens isues. So far I have written 11 hubs and got 2 awards. Stop by if you are interested. :)


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

". I am going to write articles about dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals first (I love dinosaurs) and articles about herpetology (the study of reptiles and amphibians) "

That's great. Really fascinating topics. I'll try to read it all.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

I dont know if you would be interested in this or not but there's this article I found on here that you might want to read (comments included).

http://hubpages.com/relationships/Is-it-fair-to-sa...


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

That one woman I mentioned in my previous comment I was reading another comment of hers about patriarchal religions and one of her commentors said this.

I think the underlying course of perpuating partriachy lies with socialization we get from birth starting with agencies such as family,religion,school and state.therefore this must change inorder to achiev da gender equality.

I am not really sure I understand what she means do you know.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

I read somewhere that some men who are part of mens movements do it because they feel guilty about womens oppression well why do those men need to feel guilty those men are not oppressors (that I know of). Lucy what is your opinion of mens movements.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

"Lucy what is your opinion of mens movements."

I certainly think there are a lot of men's issues that need to be addressed but I don't know if men's movements can do that. On the other hand, nobody else is going to do it either. So I guess I'd support them.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

What I find even more shocking than men who denigrate themselves are men who hate men. I never would have believed that a man could hate men and for a while a kind of lived in denial about that. In one of my previous comments I mentioned a website calld I hate men and one of the people on there happened to be a man I dont know if he was talking about all men or some men but I think it might have been some because he only mentioned men who abuse women. I dont care if you hate me who abuse women I dont like men like that either but dont judge all than you are no better than women who hate men.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

I am not sure if this is accurate or not but I have heard from some men that women only have what they have now because men gave it to them. How accurate would you say that is one of the commentors on here (saharaeve) wrote something about it. I am just curious I dont know how accurate that is.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

Hi Lucy I have written an article about how there can be and is sexism towards men and debunking the belief that there is not if you are interested. :)


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 4 years ago Author

Hi Sam.

About your question if women only have what they have because men gave it to them, I really don't understand the question. What exactly are we talking about?


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

That question that I asked if women have what they have because men gave it to them what I meant was women have it better these days in part because of men (you know more choices and oppotunities). The reason I asked is because I think one of the commentors on here somewhere said that and another commentor (saharaeve) said women got all of that on their own. I was just curious I did not mean anything offensive by it.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

I just wanted to ask what you thought of my article Sexism Towards Men and my other articles I just want to know if I am doing good so far. Also something else I wanted to ask and this may seem like a silly question but do people ever talk about possible gender issues about animals because I was reading an article last night about how male dinosaurs may have made better parents than the females (not looking for things that bother me) and one of the commentors said Therefore we have a new theory on extinction. "Males in charge". I think she was probably just kidding but these days I kind of take things like that personally in case they might be serious. Lucy do you think she was just kidding or serious.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

That previous question that I asked about dinosaur extinction you dont have to answer that if you dont want too now that I think about it that was kind of a stupid question maybe I am just getting paranoid. I think I already know the answer I think she was just kiding because the extinction of the dinosaurs wiped out 95 percent of all life on Earth males in charge could not have done that. If you still want to answer that question you may but you dont have too maybe I am just getting paranoid.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

Hi Lucy

On a side note about the article I wrote (Sexism Towards Men) I got the definition of oppression, sexism, and discrimination from wikipedia. The reason I brought that up is because there are those feminists who dont agree with the wikipedia definitions some may even say it's androcentrism (the belief that men's point of view is always right or more important than women's) well I dont think there is anything wrong with the wikipedia definitions I agree that men's point of view is not always right but neither is women's I say the wikipedia definitions are right and after those examples I gave in my article (of sexism towards men) there is nothing any feminist can say or do that will convince me otherwise.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 4 years ago

I have said in some of my previous comments that if I needed a eason to hate men it would be because of this or that. Well I will admit that there is one particulare group of men that I do hate called anti-sexuals. I hate them becauae 1 they are against sex considering it primitive and comparable to drugs and 2 because some are even against romantic love considering it to be an addiction to a person and that humans are slaves to it. They want to strip humans of some of the most basic things that make us human at times I almost think they have no humanity to them but thankfuly they are only a very small minority asexuals outnumber them.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 3 years ago

Hi Lucy

Now before I say this let me just say that I dont beliee him and I deleted his comment I just I should let you know in my article Sexism Towards Men Darproxy commented and said not to believe a word you say he calls you a scammer and says you dont accept the faults of women and feminists for sexism against men. I dont believe a word he said about you I have read most of your articles and many of your comments I what Darkproxy says is far from the truth. I consider you my best follower for all the advice and help you have given me and I will not tolerate him speaking badly of you.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 3 years ago Author

Hi Sam,

Please put your thoughts into smaller numbers of comments or this page will end up looking like a monologue.

“another commentor (saharaeve) said women got all of that on their own. I was just curious I did not mean anything offensive by it.”

What makes you think you’ve offended me? I just didn’t understand the question.

Now I understand it better. I thought about it a little and I really don’t have a straight answer. That probably means that I’ll end up thinking that neither sex was the sole agent in those events.

I thought your article on sexism was very good. You certainly tried to be as neutral as possible. I’m not an expert on sexism so I’m no more an authority on it than you are. I just know that in my experience, articles tend to do best when I try to speak for or to a specific kind of person in a certain situation. Nobody wants to read general information on something anymore. The internet is full of that. People want to feel personally addressed and that the writer understands their situation. Given what you’ve told me so far about sexism and equality, I think you have strong experiences of your own with lots of emotions and stories to tell. Then you need an attention catching title.

“do you think she was just kidding or serious.”

Ask her.

As for dinosaurs. They may have gone extinct but we have no business classifying them as unsuccessful because of that. They existed hundreds of times longer than we have so far. Somehow I doubt that we’ll still be around in a hundred million years. Also, I’m not an expert, but I doubt that anyone can say anything definitive about the way dinosaurs raised their offspring.

On the topic of nature, the really interesting case I think is the sea horse where the male carries the eggs. There’s something to look into regarding behavior etc.

“Darproxy commented and said not to believe a word you say he calls you a scammer”

I knew somebody once by the name Darkproxy who came with some pretty vile sexism in his comments. That was years ago though. And I don’t remember the details. His less hateful comments are probably still floating around some of my hubs somewhere. No idea where but probably in articles like the “female supremacy” or “women in power” articles. Those seem to be magnets for maniacs.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 3 years ago

Thank you Lucy and sorry about the large number of comments I forgot about that.

You are probably right that we cant tell for sure how dinosaurs raised their young there's not a lot we can tell about their behavior from their skeletons we are just going by what the fossil's show us. You are also probably right that we wont be here in a hundred million years from now nature has shown again and again no species lasts forever sooner or later every species goes extinct no matter how successful they may be that's just the law of Darwinism. Well thank you and have a Merry Christmas.


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 3 years ago Author

" You are also probably right that we wont be here in a hundred million years from now "

Well I saw a documentary a while back that said, even if we don't go extinct, the humans millions of years in the future will be nothing like us. They'll be to us what we are to worms (or something like that they said).

We'll still have sexism though ;)

Thanks and you too have a Merry Christmas


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 3 years ago

We'll still have sexism though ;)

Well lets hope not lets hope that humans actually learn something if they are still around. ;)

Thank you :)


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 3 years ago

Hi Lucy

I think you should read this.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/david-flynn-d...


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 3 years ago

Hi Lucy

It would seem that boys are being badly discriminated too. I just came accross this article about a woman who said she would just die if she gave birth to a boy here's a quote from her and a link.

I know very little about boys, but what I have seen I really haven’t liked. Boys are gross; they attack their siblings with sticks, are obsessed with toilets, casually murder local wildlife and turn into disgusting teenage boys and then boring, selfish men.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2245681/...

What is wrong with women like this how can she live with herself how can her husband live with her and this woman knows what she is saying is wrong.


aldomar 3 years ago

Lucy,

Thank you for this. it is, indeed, difficult for us men to figure out how to be men in today's world. While women will give lip service to 'wanting a sensitive, kind man', those sensitive, kind men end up staying home on Friday night while the women go out with jocks and any other example of the kind of men they constantly berate. Fortunately, I met a lovely woman who not only talks the talk, but walks the walk. She says she likes me as I am, and since she has kept on coming home to me for the last twenty years I suppose she means it. It never ceases to amaze me just how creative people are at finding reasons to dislike each other. If it isn't gender, it's race or just what part of the country or even what side of town you come from. I suppose we will never grow up as a human race.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 3 years ago

Hey Lucy would you like to read my new article.

http://samowhamo.hubpages.com/hub/Feminism-And-Vic...


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 3 years ago

Hey Lucy if you are interested I have two more articles on men's issues. Just a heads up though they have some pretty disturbing things from feminists in them.

http://samowhamo.hubpages.com/hub/Radical-Feminism...

http://samowhamo.hubpages.com/hub/Modern-Feminism-...


webwatcher 3 years ago

I am quite captivated when it comes to your personal post, and Now i honestly would like you to continue to keep blogging. Reg Zooka


Lucy83 profile image

Lucy83 3 years ago Author

Hi webwatcher,

thanks for the feedback


Kevin 3 years ago

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