King Nebuchadnezzar and the son of God (Daniel: 3:25)


King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon is a known king in the bible as he was the king when Babylon showed her strength. History said that the Jews were held in captivity in Babylon and, at that time, King Nebuchadnezzar was known as a might king during his reign. The king did not know the God of the Jews consequently; some religious scholars claimed he thought himself to be a god and that the image he made was an image of him, self. However, it is known that the Babylonians had their own God which may be considered different from the Jewish God.

Christian scholars claim that the Babylonians worshiped idols and that seem to agree with king Nebuchadnezzar idea to erect an image for all, in his land, including the Jews to worship. It shows that the king had no respect for the Jewish God, a God which he never really knew. The incident in the story got more exciting when three Jews: Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego refused to worship or bow down before the image made by the king as they claimed that they serve a living God which was much different from the God of the Babylonians. The act of the Jews angered the king that he instructed that they be thrown in a furnace of fire. The story said that even those that threw them into the furnace were killed by the heat that came out from it.

The Babylonian expect the three Jews to be killed by the fire but here is what the king said in Daniel 3: 25, “He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the son of God.” The king was not only surprised that the men were not hurt but also he saw four men in the flame and he said the fourth person is “like the son of God” and he ordered them to come out of the flame which they did; then the king decreed that nobody should stop Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego from worshiping their God.

Most people simply consider the above bible verse like is done in this article and ask nothing more especially when the main objective is to establish how strong and superior the God of the Jews was in those days and may till to date based on the Christians point of view. However, what got the interest of the writer is was King Nebuchadnezzar sure of the identity of the fourth person he saw in the flame, if yes, then how did King Nebuchadnezzar know the son of God and how he looks like? For instance, can one say this looks the president of the United States when one has never previously seen the American president? Christians know Jesus Christ as the son of God or even God, himself, depending on the sect so it means the King saw Jesus in the flame or God. But then could the king be so sure when he neither knew the Jewish God nor his son? The only God the king knew was their own God so is it possible that the King was referring to the son of their God? This is a question many people had not thought about.

Then again, having witnessed such an astonishing and unexplainable incident, the king did not turn to the Jewish God as an all powerful God or instruct that all his people should worship the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego instead he only gave them religious freedom to continue serving their own God. The whole story of King Nebuchadnezzar showed that he had respect for God and trusted in God so much so that he always sought for answers from the higher realms, not minding the source of such answers for as long as he knew it to be true. This can easy be seen from his relationship with Daniel as a prophet in his kingdom.

However, the God the king respected and the level of respect he had for that God could be questioned based on the punishment he received later in his life in which he confirmed that of a truth, the Gods made him who he was. Yet, the question still remains, is it possible for the king to know the son of a God whom he had never seen or known before? That is what we have to consider for we to understand who the king had in mind when he exclaimed in astonishment, “... and the form of the fourth is like the son of God.” In the kings word he said, “The form” and we may never know what the form of the person he saw in the fiercely burning flame was that made him call him “the son of God.”

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ElderYoungMan profile image

ElderYoungMan 4 years ago from Worldwide

Nebuchadnezzar and his might was used by the Father to punish his own chosen people. In that way, he became the "servant" of the Most High, but not a son. A son of the Most High has his Word in his spirit.


Jerami profile image

Jerami 4 years ago from Houston tx

There are several issues at work here. Would it be proper to debate whether this verse should read THE or A son of God?

How was the form of Jesus any different than anyone else walking around when Jesus walked the earth.

I think that in this instance, He could have said "the fourth person was like unto a spirit being" Maybe people were seing Spirit beings in 600 BC ? And Nebeuchadnezzar was compairing this person to that?


ElderYoungMan profile image

ElderYoungMan 4 years ago from Worldwide

Sorry guy, I only saw a small portion of the hub as I answered from my PDA. I don't think there's a debate. Nebuchadnezzar saw "The" Son of the most High, in the fire. Basically, every time you hear the "Word of the Lord" moving about in the earth and doing things in the Old Testament, this is the Son of God, because what the Gospel of John clarifies for us in the first chapter is that the Word is the Son and the Son was present with the Father, since the beginning. The Fleshly form of Yahoshua was that of a man, but he was a "Completed" man, who had "Fully" received the Word of Yah. He was the man Adam was due to become after our Father completed his lessons in the cool of the day.

What we all have to understand about Nebuchadnezzar's relationship with the most High is that it started back in Jeremiah and before Daniel, the Father had spoke to the king. When Zedekiah was taken before Nebuchadnezzar, he clearly stated to the king of Judah that his own God had done these things to him and his people, because of their disobedience. The Father is King and ruler over all things, even the pagans, whether they acknowledge him or not. Nebuchadnezzar and all of the Kings up to Alexander were of the indigenous seed (Adam) though they were pagan worshippers, so through the children of Israel, the Father made himself known to the kings of Babylon and Persia. This all stopped with the Greeks (Gentile Kings-Book of Maccabees).

So to your last question, based on his length of time communing with the Most High and his understanding of his role as whipping stick to the children, when he saw that 4th person in the fire, he knew exactly who was paying him a visit and got the message real quick! :-)


ElderYoungMan profile image

ElderYoungMan 4 years ago from Worldwide

I go into detail on this in my hub called "State of Our World Part 3". Part 3a got banned from Hubpages :-) but I have a link to it at the bottom of Part 3.


davidkaluge profile image

davidkaluge 4 years ago Author

Thanks ElderYoungMan and Jerami. Like Jerami said a lot of things are involved here and a lot of questions also. It is important to get the point and answer the question without sentiments or emotions or attempt to bend things or say what we are not sure of. Yet there are obvious things we can get from here, ElderYoundMan, I think you are a Christian and you are trying to say that it was Jesus or God he saw like you said/claim "he knew exactly who paid him a visit" yet you easily forget that no one identifies a stranger by name at first meeting without introduction except if you have known such a one somewhere and as such he/she won't be a stranger. The king said "The son..." which means he knew who he saw and we also know that the King worshiped a different God. Therefore, let us assume the king said, "the fourth one is God" which God do you think he would have meant when he had his own God? I am trying to understand the situation better and your explanation did not answer it. Some one said in a group on FB just like Jerami, that people of those days call saw a lot of spirits and they at time called them God or something yet "the son of God" is striking especially when mentioned by some one that never knew God. Even the Jews that worshiped the God you claim did not recognize Jesus as the son of God when he lived with them then how then a King that never believed in the same God but had his own God and maybe his God had Son/sons.


Jerami profile image

Jerami 4 years ago from Houston tx

I made a long comment then reverted back to this simple proclimation

I Agree completely with your statement . I don't know if many people would call me a Christian and not?

I believe in the God of Abraham and that Jesus was the messiah that was foretold.

That he fulfilled all prophesy concerning himself as is written that he would .

I also believe that everything that he

is said to have said is true and SHOULD NOT be interpreted.

When his words are given away to interpretation ??? then ... what does the NT stand for??


ElderYoungMan profile image

ElderYoungMan 4 years ago from Worldwide

I wouldn't say "Christian" so much as a follower of the Messiah. My statement that Nebuchadnezzar knew who had come to visit him was based on the fact that he already had a relationship with the Most High. This relationship started in Jeremiah's time as stated above, so the king understood the difference between his pagan deities and YHWY Most High. At that time, there were all manner of nephilim and hybrids walking about the earth. The Anunaki are a good example and yes people worshipped these giants and nephilims as deity. The king of Babylon would not have been subject to any of these however. You have to remember that Nebuchadezzar was both king and self-proclaimed deity (Emperor) as the high priest of the mystery religion. Even as such, he was still familiarized with the Most High through the children of Israel. Nehemiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, the three Hebrew boys and many other Hebrews' stories are of ministering to Babylonian, Persian and Median kings. Nebuchadezzar just never converted, which is why the Most High judged him.


Jerami profile image

Jerami 4 years ago from Houston tx

To the best of my memory concerning that which is written in scripture Jeremiah began his ministry around 625 BC when he began prophesying to the people of Jerusalem that IF They didn't repent God was going to give them into the hands of Nebeuchadnezzar. I don't recall him ever meeting Nebeuchadnezzar. Ezekiel was among the Children who was taken to Babylon in 605 BC and received his first vision from the Lord around 596ish. He prophesied about Jerusalem being destroyed. It was 70 years from the first deportation until the first hebrews began migrating back to Jerusalem. It was 70 years from the time Jerusalem and the temple was totally destroyed in 586 BC until the temple was rebuilt (around 518BC). It was smaller than Solomons temple but nun-the-less it was completed. It was another 70 years before the streets and the walls around the city were finished under Nehemiah's direction (450ish BC). Nebeuchadnezzar died around 562ish and never meet these two either ( to the best of my recolection), God only communicated with Nebeuchadnezzar by giving him two dreams which Daniel gave the understanding to the king. He never saw God according to scriptures.

So, where this comes from that Nebeuchadnezzar said the fourth man looked like the Son of God; No one knows.

Just my opinion!


ElderYoungMan profile image

ElderYoungMan 4 years ago from Worldwide

It also is not specific about "How" the king knew Jeremiah, but the fact that he did actually know of him is not debatable. Again, YHWY Most High is the ruler of all things, pagan or whatnot. My first guess would be that the Hebrews that were taken away spoke with him but his own Chaldean soothsayers are not beyond the reach of Yah, Most High. What we do know if that the king had insight into divine things and based on that insight, he had contact and familiarity with the Most High. No one knows is the wrong answer, but obviously you are set on it. My advise would be to study the relationships between the Babylonian, Persian and Mede kings up to Artaxerxes. The book of Ezra and the apocryphal book of 1 Esdres is very good for describing the nature of these relationships and you might get a better idea of why my position is that their relationships had a major effect on these king's relationship with YHWY. It was intended that way from the beginning, that Israel would familiarize pagans with the Most High.


Jerami profile image

Jerami 4 years ago from Houston tx

The kind didn't come into contact with Jeremiah cause nobody was paying any attention to the soothsayers of the Hebrews.

The second book of Daniel explains explicitly how the King came to know Daniel AND When the king First came into contact with the God of the Hebrews. In the kings second year reigning over the Hebrews that God is said to have contacted him through a Dream.

It would have been some time after this that he meet M. S. and Abendago.

to the best of my understanding, God didn't tell Nebeuchadnezzar to invade Jerusalem either time. God simply put it in his heart to do so pretty much the same way God hardened Pharo's heart.

So the question that this Hub is adressing IS a valid - stand up, solid question that deserves long and truthful consideration.

according to scripture, God never spoke directly to the kings who presided over Israel (only king David and Solomon).

And they never saw God or Jesus.they did


davidkaluge profile image

davidkaluge 4 years ago Author

Jerami seem to understand the situation better. ElderYoungMan there are claims of which when one makes it becomes obvious that one is bias. How can you say that the King knew the Jewish God and for that reason recognized him when even Moses and other prophets might not recognize their God? Is it not said, no eye has seen God? Therefore, to know or hear of a God is one thing and to recognize same God is another issue. The question is can one recognize what one has never seen before or knows exists? Also your comment confirm what was said in my journey with an unborn child in that the king prayed to his idols while God of the Jews claimed he made him what he was even though the king thought it was his Gods that did it. Again it was not recorded that any of the prophets you mentioned except Daniel had any direct contact with the king. Yet let us assume that they related with the king or even spoke to him about their God so did they tell him the form of their God or his son which made it easier for him to recognize him in the flame? Can I say, this is Elder…(you) from afar just because I read your comment here without I meeting you earlier? Lastly, the Jews were not known to describe their God by any form, it is others that used forms to describe their Gods that is why some of them made idols to represent such Gods.


ElderYoungMan profile image

ElderYoungMan 4 years ago from Worldwide

I understand there are motives behind any question and also that the people asking a question may not be as thoroughly read as they think. Yes, I have a very definite bias, but that bias comes from the fact that the position has been verified. Your statement regarding access that the Hebrews had to the king tells me that you have no idea how these relationships looked. That's not really your fault because the people you have been trained to trust with the canon of acceptable scripture has decieved you and most of the religious world. I think I mentioned that my understanding of the relationships between the kings and the hebrews in captivity came from my study of 1 Esdras. Now you can continue to tell me what you think or you can read the material and grow thereby. Your understanding is based on logic, but that logic is flawed because your information is not complete.


davidkaluge profile image

davidkaluge 4 years ago Author

ElderYoungMan, no matter how well you claim you know and that others know little has always been the case especially in religious issues as each sect/individual claim to know and understand better than others. You mentioned that your claim was from the book of Ester and 1 Esdras you read but you never pointed out what the books said and how it proved to support your claim that the King had seen God or Jesus earlier so you end up saying nothing. It is not logic as you think but it's a simple fact. The king might have heard about the Jewish God but does that mean he saw the Jewish God before the fire incident? You must be able to make your claims plane and mention such instance if you are sure. There is no doubt that the king did hear about the Jewish God from Daniel and maybe others but was such interaction in a way that they showed him their God when they might not have how their God looks. The king loved mysteries and he is involve in mystery and that is what may only explain his statement but what you and I do not know is the son God he heard in mind because those in most mysteries will tell you there are hierarchies of Gods and powers. However, the king statement also suggested that the person he saw was not a stranger to him because he was able to recognize the person. You can share what your Esdras said that made you claim the king saw God.


ElderYoungMan profile image

ElderYoungMan 4 years ago from Worldwide

I don't think it will sink in if I just tell you. orthodoxengland.org.uk/zot.htm


davidkaluge profile image

davidkaluge 4 years ago Author

Thanks for sharing the link so that people can see where it was written or how the king saw God earlier than we thought. Moreover, the source of the link and proves will also be considered.


davidkaluge profile image

davidkaluge 4 years ago Author

Thanks for sharing the link so that people can see where it was written or how the king saw God earlier than we thought. Moreover, the source of the link and proves will also be considered.


ElderYoungMan profile image

ElderYoungMan 4 years ago from Worldwide

Esdres = Ezra. These are said to be the extended books of Ezra the scribe, who read the law and the history upon the completion of Nehemiah's return to the promised land. I like this book because it narrates the relationships between YHWY, the Hebrews and the Kings all the way down to King Darius. This narration is what flavors my opinion not only with the King of Babylon, but those of the Persians and the Medes. I am actually very happy that you'll read it. It blessed me and expanded my thinking! :-)


davidkaluge profile image

davidkaluge 4 years ago Author

ElderYoungMan, I was able to visit your site and I understand that there are other books along with the one you mentioned. Are these books part of the Christian Scriptures or were there supposed to be but was not included or is it a book used only by a different Christian sect? Did you consider what others have said about the book and why it was not included in the bible. That is, do you think everyone is in agreement with these books? And which Christian sect/sects use the books in the site? Thanks, I shall find time to read the book although when I scanned it I did see the verse you have in mind so pls. can you tell me the direct verse that inspired your opinion so I can read it as there are about six chapter or more in the book?


ElderYoungMan profile image

ElderYoungMan 4 years ago from Worldwide

My studies have centered on the canon of the Bible. The books that you see there are a combination of Apocryphal books (Esdras is from the Apocrypha) and books bearing their original names. Kingdoms is actually 1st and 2nd Samuel and Paraleipomenon was renamed Chronicles. Authorship and repetition are the two reasons the councils have given for adding or removing books from the canon. One thing to note is that the original 1611 KJV had 90 books not 66. The canon of the Church of Ethiopian Christians also includes the 90 books. Since there was a controversy surrounding which books should be included in the canon, I decided to read all of the books. A lot of these books don't support western society and it seems they were removed as the scriptures and "Christianity" moved into the western world. The first chapter speaks to my position. The specific verses are 1:46 and 1:49, but I'd read the whole chapter to get the full feel. Chapter 2 covers Cyrus and Chapter 3-4 covers the relationship between Darius the Great and Zerubbabel. The whole book gives great insight into the relationships that existed between the Hebrew in exile and the kings.


davidkaluge profile image

davidkaluge 4 years ago Author

Okay, you mean it is in Chapter One so I shall read that chapter to see if I can agree with you. You comment suggest that the Western world removed some books that did not agree with their believe or whatever. It also means that the bible was reduced from 90 books to 66 books like you mentioned although I know the Catholic claim to have other books not in the bible. I asked you which religious sect you belong? It will help me understand the bases of your doctrine/believe.


ElderYoungMan profile image

ElderYoungMan 4 years ago from Worldwide

None. No more doctrines or divisions. In the past, Baptist and raised AME. I really wouldn't say that I'm "Christian" in that I know what Rome's influence was on what we call Christianity. I follow Yahoshua Ben YHWY.


davidkaluge profile image

davidkaluge 4 years ago Author

Okay, I get it so you studied the scriptures just to learn more than what was written in the bible.


ElderYoungMan profile image

ElderYoungMan 4 years ago from Worldwide

Study... Present tense... There were more than the 66 books of the current canon. So I study the scriptures seeking the face of the most high. It's better to have a complete love letter than a partial. Bottom line, I don't trust the Sanhedrin, the Catholics or the Protestants to choose which books are good and which are bad.... So I read them all. It "Seems" a lot of these books don't agree with the values being taught to our children and "Authorship" may be more of a cop out than a real reason to exclude them.


davidkaluge profile image

davidkaluge 4 years ago Author

I read the verse and Chapter but it was not clarified that the King had any encounter with God. I suspect you when where it was written that he asked another King to swear in the name of Lord. So I do not understand how you came up with the idea that he saw God earlier and was able to recognize him in subsequent visits.


ElderYoungMan profile image

ElderYoungMan 4 years ago from Worldwide

It is quite obvious to me now that you don't read the scriptures in the spirit or really have an appreciation for the omnipresence of the Most High. I never said the king saw the Father. I said that he came to know them through the children of Israel. The Esdres clearly lays out that the king knew of Jeremiah, the prophecy concerning his role in chastising Israel and by that association, he knew the God of Israel. If you want to wonder around in your doubts, that's your choice. My point here is not to argue about it, but imparting knowledge. Take it or leave it.

Elder.


davidkaluge profile image

davidkaluge 4 years ago Author

I have tried all along to tell you that to know and to see is not same thing but you insist on your own understanding. I agreed that the King might had heard about the Jewish God which is what you claim to mean "know" but I also maintained that for one to recognize something by sight means one should had seen it. The prophets do not know the likeness of God to describe that to the king. So next time you talk pls. don't use assumption to mean certainty. The king never saw the son of the Jewish God based on your referred books. It means what you claim is your theory or understanding of the matter.


ponder profile image

ponder 3 years ago from Los Angeles,CA

Your analysis of King Nebuchadnezzar's observation and subsequent reaction to what took place is insightful.... I'm going to reread Daniel again.


davidkaluge profile image

davidkaluge 3 years ago Author

Thanks Ponder, we don't have to read to reason along as we read and then try to know the why of things. Thanks once again.

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