Thank you Westboro Baptist Church

Founder Fred Phelps

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Brief history of Westboro Baptist Church

When Fred Phelps founded the Westboro Baptist Church he had a vision of what this church would do. They have become something amazing, and it is true what they say about publicity, "Even bad publicity is good, because that means people are talking about you." WBC is notorious for what it has done on the news and other media, they are determined and dedicated, and while many people dislike them, I would like to offer them my thanks.

WBC has made it very hard for some people to call themselves Christian. The church website is easy enough to remember, especially if one knows the theology of WBC, www.godhatesfages.com and the home page is quoted saying, "Since 1955, Westburrow Baptist Church has taken forth the precious from the vile, and so is as the mouth of God (Jer. 15:19). In 1991, WBC began conducting peaceful demonstrations opposing the fag lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth."

That really defines them to a "T". They protest funerals and other events to get on cameras and other media expressing hateful messages of God hating certain types of people, mainly people that are not like them. They use passages from the bible to prove they are right and others are very, very wrong. They feel they are helping the nation and the world by shoving certain issues in our faces and proving they understand what "shock messaging" is. It is amazing how a church can be so focused on hate, but I offer this simple statement to all of the Westboro people: Thank you.

Protesting Westboro style

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They picket others to explain their beliefs

I realize many people think that picketing funeral is awful. And there are probably some people who think God should be equal to love and not hate. Quite honestly I am one of those people. I cringe every time I see another picture of God HATES ________. Whatever they fill in the blank, it makes my heart ache. My God does not hate anyone, but still, Westburo has had some pretty amazing and good results, even Godly, but that is more indirect from what other people have done in support of the hurting families.

People have come together to create a living wall between the picket and the funeral proceedings. Others have figured out how to create confusion as to where the funeral is so the picket can never happen. People seem to be nicer, better and more concerned with others during great crisis. WBC has created several smaller crisis and because of them, people are coming out to help people in pain from loss. This is a great mission. Please keep it up!

Where to find them

The Bible says this and that, but people know what God's Love really is

I am a Presbyterian minister. I watch the WBC with knots in my stomach, because I try and help people understand that God LOVES everyone. God desires to be in a loving relationship with everyone. I realize there are parts of the Bible that "say" this or that about different types and behaviors of people. Most of the Old Testament is mis-quoted by churches like WBC to prove they are right and others are wrong. They believe in a theology of black and white, or right and wrong. Amongst the problems with this, there is never only one right answer and God can typically work through our sins and wrong doings just as well as our acts of mercy and kindness.

WBC seems to pick some parts of the Bible and ignore others. While Jesus explains many people were told "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy", Jesus continues to tell us, "Love our enemies" (Matthew 5:43-44) and so I turn to WBC and say I love you. I appreciate all that you have done for this country. Because of you, people are questioning their own churches. They want to know if they belong to a church that follows a person or God. They want to know their missions are ones of mercy and grace instead of hate and prejudice. You have done some great work, and I thank you for that. People have gathered together to protect the families from your "protests" and have shown God's love to those who needed it as they dealt with their loved one's death. People have been amazing in how they protect others from each little crisis you create. But if you did not create them, then people would have no reason to come together and support each other. So for that, I thank you.

God working through WBC

What do you think Westboro Baptist Church has done for Christianity?

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The theology of serving others in distress

In the Gospel of Mark we find the disciples struggling with people healing in the Name of Jesus but not following Jesus like the disciples did. Jesus tells them not to stop them. We often try to stop people from doing horrible or awful actions against others, and for the most part we should. But in the case of WBC, so much good has come out of their theology that we should let them continue their mixed up and confused "missions of truth". While I do not think God hates anyone, I think people have come to understand what church really is with the help of WBC. While they clearly stand for what church is not, here is what church is:

Church is where people come together in compassion and mercy. Church is where people stand tall and proud and support one another in love and respect. Church is where we see the glory of Jesus in our lives and the lives of others. In the death of Jesus we see our sufferings have meanings and purpose, but we are still meant to serve others.

WBC has given America several opportunities to come together and show support to people in pain and suffering. They have created a place where people can do some great good. I thank them for these opportunities, for the chance to prove to anyone that God loves everyone. Thank you, WBC, for the opportunity to serve Jesus in the name of mercy and compassion.

A brave young woman

Other Hubs dealing with treating others with love and respect

May we all treat other people as if they are Jesus Christ, not judging them but trying to understand them: http://rev-akins.hubpages.com/hub/The-Celtic-was-to-evangelism-in-a-new-world

We don't all have to be the same to worship the same God: http://rev-akins.hubpages.com/hub/Unity-not-Uniformity

Too often people say something to be rude or hurtful, using the Bible to back up their opinions. This will help people understand the Bible is not a weapon and we are not meant to judge others with our own opinions: http://rev-akins.hubpages.com/hub/The-myth-of-Speaking-the-Truth-in-Love

Thank you Westburo

I thank you Westburo Baptist Church. You have not served God as I would, but I see the greater good God has created because of your actions and protests. I see good men and women coming together in support of others because of you. I hear about people showing love and mercy to allow the Grace God provides everyone. May people continue to serve the God that loves instead of the god that hates(yes, I meant to keep this one lower case). Thank you WBC, for you have created events for people to show God's compassion where it would not be seen so clearly before. You have done a great service to us, and God can work through all things, big and small, good and bad, because God is bigger than all of us. Thank you WBC.

God Bless these people

It more recent news, Fred Phelps passed away of natural causes, yet the church continues to protest and follow his understanding of the Bible. It is interesting to note, people have come out during a WBC picket to tell them, "We are not like you" with a sign that says "We are sorry for your loss." This is what people are supposed to say at a funeral. May God help them see love and peace, and may they come to understand God does not hate anyone. Thank you to those that picketed across the street that shows the world what good and loving people are capable of doing.

To see the whole story, please visit:Sorry for your loss

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35 comments

Jodah profile image

Jodah 2 years ago from Queensland Australia

Great hub Rev. Akins. I had heard of the Westboro church but didn't know much about them until Fred a Phelps died. Thank you for bringing them to my attention. They say for ever action there is an equal opposite reaction so all the bad Westboro has done has resulted in good done elsewhere. God sometimes works in strange ways, but never hates.


Rev. Akins profile image

Rev. Akins 2 years ago from Tucson, AZ Author

Thank you Jodah, that was the message I was trying to get across. God works in ways we cannot understand, using people and situations that seem wrong to us now, but in the future great good will come from them.


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 2 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

Just a wonderful hub. Sometimes I wish I had more time in the day or even while preaching to spend on hate and anger. But I am just little old me and I am so busy trying to love better that I just cannot find the time. I can only figure that if these folks have all that time to hate they must be not doing something else, and I can guess what that is.

I sometimes wonder if they can actually finish praying and be filled with hate. That would really be weird.


RonElFran profile image

RonElFran 2 years ago from Mechanicsburg, PA

Two passages of Scripture I think of when I think of WBC: first, God is able to make all things (even the seemingly evil) work together for good to those who love Him. I think that's what you are saying in this hub. The other is: offenses must come, but woe unto those by whom they come. Perhaps WBC, while totally ungodly in its outlook and practices, is one of those offenses that had to come, but which God will somehow turn to good.


Rev. Akins profile image

Rev. Akins 2 years ago from Tucson, AZ Author

Ericdierker- thank you for the comment, I am interested in your last thought about ending prayer and still filled with hate. That is truly something beyond me, but I also wonder if they are still so hateful after they pray.

RonElFran- I am trying to say God can work through good and evil to make His Love appear. It is similar to the hardening of hearts, God allows people to be evil so that greater good can come from it.


r-o-y profile image

r-o-y 2 years ago

Most everyone seems to be focus on one side of this issue; I don’t know what bible they are reading from because my bible says God hates the homosexual lifestyle. The God of the bible that I study says that lifestyle is an abomination. Many of the bad thinks that come upon a people is because of sin, not just the sin of homosexuality, but of hatred, greed, fornication, lust, hatred of God and many other sins. We can’t condemn these other sins and pretend that the sin of homosexuality is not sin just because the world except it as normal, this world hates God.

The man may have went a little far in blaming the homosexual for every bad thing that happens in this world, but the man read the word of God and took a stand on what he believed. Because Christian [preacher] preaches from the bible of what says the Lord, does that that preacher a hater? If that’s the case than we might as well stop preaching that stealing is sin because the same God that says homosexuality is sin says stealing is sin, we can’t call out one sin and ignore the other, sin is sin!

According to the word of God the homosexual lifestyle is an abomination before God, preacher I’m I wrong in this?


Rev. Akins profile image

Rev. Akins 2 years ago from Tucson, AZ Author

The main problem is creating one sin as being greater than others. When you say this sin is worse, or that God is punishing us because of people sinning than you have lost the point of the Bible. Jesus came to save us, not condemn us. If we say that Jesus is the Word of God, then we know it is about love and acceptance and prayer. So yes, this man and this church went way too far, and yes stealing is a sin. But we cannot focus on sin so much that we lose track of grace, mercy, forgiveness and reconciliation. I am trying to help people understand what happens when "Christians" go too far, and the fact that God can use everything we do for a greater good. Thanks for the comment.


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 2 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

I truly do not mean to "usurp". I truly am ignorant on this. I have never debated the issue but have been effected by it. I humbly do ask; Where is this found? "According to the word of God the homosexual lifestyle is an abomination before God, preacher I’m I wrong in this?"

I possibly delude myself in thinking that a homosexual can lead a lifestyle of praising God, just like a Judas, or a tax collector or a Legion or even a whore or drunken addict.

Again sorry for an interruption.


r-o-y profile image

r-o-y 2 years ago

Mr. Akins, I disagree with you say no one sin is greater than another, this is simply not scripture, it may make for interesting conversation, but it’s not true according to the word of God. There are sins that are unto death and there are sins that are not unto death. There are that are forgiven, and there are sin that will never be forgiven, if I steal a loft of bread from the store because I’m hungry, even though I stole it for a good reason it’s still sin.

Now I eat the bread that I stole now I’m full, now I need some money to buy me some dope to get high, so now I go out and rob someone and shoot and kill them in the process, which is the greater of the two evil, or to put it another way, which sin is greater, the stealing of bread or destroying one who is in God’s image? God destroyed His own people, knocked down His Temple and sent His people into slavery because of sin. No, I’m not the one who is missing the whole point of the word of God sir; you are the one missing the point.

The focus should be on wither or not the homosexual lifestyle is an abomination before God, this is most important. If it is, and it is than our first order of business is to expose it as sin before God, now I know that the gospel of Christ is being suppressed by the apostate church. This church is the friend of the world, this world says you better shut your mouth about the homosexual or you are no friend of this world. Jesus says if you love this world and its ways the love of the father is not in you, you can’t be fashioned after the sins of this world and claim to love God.

People claim that the church is where people should find love and where they should see Christ in others and I agree. But how can we see Christ where He is not? If a church is full of fornicators and the preacher never preaches on the evils of fornication, that preacher is not a preacher of the Gospel of Christ no matter what he calls himself. If in that same church there are many homosexuals present and the preacher does not preach on the evils of the homosexual lifestyle, that preacher is no preacher of the Gospel of Christ, but he preaches another gospel and another Christ!

In your opinion, is the homosexual lifestyle a sin? If not prove to me from scripture how it’s not a sin before God. Jesus attended the Synagogue on the Sabbath and He is the essence of pure love, yet when He saw His Father’s house being defiled did He just stand there showing love? No, His anger knew no bounds, He became violent! Jesus took rope and made a whip and drove the sinners out of His Father’s house, yet the preachers of this end-time church says don’t preach to them about their sins, just show love!

Instead of warning the sinner of the danger to their soul, this church would rather turn on the man who take the stand they are afraid to take because of their fear of losing out on friendship with the world, they would rather lose friendship with God than this sinful world. The Lord says the love of God is not in them no matter what they call themselves. The man did a work, he didn’t do a perfect job of it, and neither is any other preacher doing a perfect work, but one thing we can say about this man is that he stood on the word of God and in the end was hated by the world, the same treatment that the Son of God received from this world of Satan worshipers.

I do not hate homosexuals, but any church that preaches that homosexuality is a sin is under attack by Satan and most have been silenced.

The preacher’s job is not to defend sin, but expose it, but that would mean being hated by this world, but they would rather sin before God and be loved by this sinful world and defend what they shouldn’t and turn against that which is good for the love of this world.

Are you preaching the Gospel of Christ in your church, are you preaching that sinfulness of homosexuality, or do you avoid the conversation all together? I believe your focus is on the wrong thing?


Rev. Akins profile image

Rev. Akins 2 years ago from Tucson, AZ Author

The argument Ericdierker comes mainly from the Old Testament, but it is misused many times. Sadly, what most people don't want to admit is homosexuality was added into the bible in the 20th century. Prior to that the bible said, "A man may not lay with another man as he would a woman." Basically two men cannot try and have children together. Many people have taken it to mean being gay is bad, a sin, and sadly then take to beyond that to say being gay is worse than all the other sins. That is my understanding to the argument.


Rev. Akins profile image

Rev. Akins 2 years ago from Tucson, AZ Author

r-o-y- I see your side of the issue. However, it seems to me you view the church as a social gathering of perfect people. This would be a place where people who are not perfect, or who sin, are not allowed, or even accepted. I view church as a hospital, a place for the sick and those in need of healing. Jesus is the Great Physician, and desires us to come to him weak and weary, sinful and knowing we have sinned.

I am saying that sin is wrong, and I am saying that if we decide what sin is worse than others, that we judge others on their sins without taking into consideration our own sins, we are equally wrong. WBC goes too far when they assume they are right and others are wrong. We all live in sin and we all need help. I personally leave the judging others to God, and I spend my time here on earth serving a hospital of sinners, each one trying to do the best they can. I see no reason to point out one sin over another, we all know what we have done wrong, and most importantly, God already knows as well.


r-o-y profile image

r-o-y 2 years ago

I do not see the church as a place full of perfect people, but a place full of sinners, we are all sinners, but there is a difference between falling from grace and committing a sin and living in a state of constant sin. When one falls from grace the Lord says that there is forgiveness for that sinners, but there’s condition to that forgiveness. First the sinner must admit that he or she has sinned against God, they cannot hide their sin or make excuses of them. The point I’m try to make is that the preachers are not condemning homosexuality from the pulpits like they do with all the other sins they men commit.

So the homosexual is not hearing about how wrong his or her lifestyle is and what an affront to God it is, so they fell no need to repent because they see the preacher focusing his attention on the one who is doing what God says do by calling them out on their sins, when this preacher should be doing what he is condemning the other preacher for doing, fighting the battle for the homosexual when he should be fighting for The Lord, why should they repent?

It was God who set this sin apart from other sins by calling it an abomination:

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. {NKJ, Leviticus 18:22]

You may see it as any other sin, but the word of God says differently. An abomination before God should be an abomination to you, since you say you speak for God. But something is not adding up here. What God set apart as most terrible sin, you say it no worse than any other sin, one of you are wrong, either God is mistaken, or you are, I’m going to have believe that it’s you who are in error. You never answered my question. Do you preach in your church of the evils of the homosexual lifestyle, or do you avoid the conversation?

Again, your focus should be on bringing the homosexual to repentance than finding so many faults in the imperfect servant of God. It took a man of courage to do what this man did; your focus is in the wrong place! I agree with him in that its sin that is causing the destruction of this world, not just homosexuality, but all sin; it’s just that the preachers are making it a lot easier for the homosexual to continue to live in unrepentant sin!


Carola Finch profile image

Carola Finch 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

Great hub and I think, very fair. I think the church is doing a good job of preaching what the bible says. God is our judge and Jesus said that we should not judge others. When we judge, it encourages the kind of hatred and hurtful actions that hurt innocent people, like the lady who had picketers at her son's funeral.

In the past, I have worked as a Christian in workplaces where there were many gay people. They knew my views but also knew that I didn't judge them for their choices. I was told that I was admired for having convictions. People who are sinners are hurting, wounded people who often come from from dysfunctional families and have been abused. They deserve our compassion and prayers, not judgement and condemnation. We will win more people to Christ by following Christ's example of love and mercy than preaching at them. Don't forget that gay people are not monsters, they are some people's sons, daughters, and loved ones. They are also God's children.

Our God is a God of love and mercy. He is the judge who convicts people of sin and brings them to repentance. We Christians should focus on our own issues and leave other people alone. The church has taken a stand and that is good enough. In other words, we should work on the log in our own eyes before trying to take the speck out of someone else's.


Jodah profile image

Jodah 2 years ago from Queensland Australia

Wise words Carola.


r-o-y profile image

r-o-y 2 years ago

Why is it hatred when we call out the homosexual for their sins and not hatred when we send a killer to the courts to be JUDGED? If we are not to judge others, all courts of law should be done away with, since we are not to judge others. The bible has already judged this to be a most terrible sin, I’m not the judge, but here to remind of what the judge has already passed sentence on. God say we are no to judge others by condemning them to hell because it’s not our call to make.

The very people who make the claim that we are not to judge others, judges others. If you see a person hanging around your house at night and that person looks a bit criminal would you just turn and say I’m not going to judge that person, no you would probably call the police because you judged that person to be a possible danger to your family, you just passed judgment on that person. The jail houses are full of people we should not have passed judgment on if we are not to judge others.

Many people throw that word hatred around very loosely, when people do that they are being very ill responsible. God told us to judge the one who live in constant sin to be not worthy of our company, if that person continue to live in unrepentant we are informed to not even eat with them. God command that we make constant judgment calls when it comes to others or how could we obey his commands?

These people deserve our prayers and compassion, but if we claim to know God, than we must know His word because it’s in His word that we become to really Him. Now in this word God laid down laws and if these laws are not obey, according the word of God that person is led to destruction. Where is the compassion in letting that person go into destruction without warning them of what is awaiting them at the end of this short life if we say we know God? Where is the love? Where is the compassion?

We may win more soul by following Jesus’s example.

Now let’s look a couple of examples of Jesus:

When Jesus was confronted by the Jewish Priest in the synagogue He called them devils and said to them you do the work of your father Satan. So was Jesus showing no compassion because He warned them that they were headed for hell? John the Baptist called these very same people snakes, was he showing no compassion or was he doing what thus saith the Lord? The Lord say do not be unevenly yoke with the sinner or you will be caught up in their sins, it seems to me that the Lord is calling on us to do a lot of judging of others. I must judge the person to be able to come to the conclusion that I should not be in their company.

Stop it! We all judge others! Compassion does not mean looking the other way when God’s word is being destroyed and His house is being infiltrated.

Love says I see my brother for destruction so I must do all I can to convince him that he’s headed for destruction even if he hates me for it. This is what happen to the Son of God, He was nailed to a tree beating beyond recognition, all because He warn people that they were headed for destruction, now that’s true love. If you see your brother or sister headed for destruction and you say nothing, that’s not love or compassion that is the definition of true Hatred!


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 2 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

Now I looked this up in the Latin Vulgate version. And the Bible does not say "According to the word of God the homosexual lifestyle is an abomination before God"

And I am quite certain that we are not to add to the Bible. And nowhere does the Bible say this is an abomination to God. It calls it an abomination. Modern language abomination is something gross and disgusting. And so is farting in church and then laughing about it. It clearly is not at all mentioned in the commandments or by Jesus. Paul only references it combined with a lifestyle of open sin.

This is definitely a non-starter when it comes to mortal sin. It just ain't.

(in that same chapter it warns not to uncover the nakedness of your father's brother, and shall not uncover the nakedness of grandchildren or children) Well if you take that chapter literally today --- you will have to hire a nanny to change diapers and wash your children. And it does not apply to women so Lesbians would be just fine and dandy?

Well Rev. Akins thank you for the motivation to learn more.


r-o-y profile image

r-o-y 2 years ago

The Vulgate is the Pope’s bible and is as corrupted as he is, this bible created from an altered man scripture that was found in the trash can. Whomever it was that was putting this corrupt version of the bible realized it had to many changes to be published to the world so he filed it where it belong, in the trash can. The Pope’s when and collects it out of the trash can and Published to the world as the word of God.

It was manufactured form what’s called the Minority Text; it’s called the Minority Text it’s only in a few places where it agrees with itself. That’s why it was thrown into the trash can from which the Pope’s man retrieved it.

The King James was created from what called the Majority Text; in this case the Majority of the manuscripts are in agreement, which one would you put more faith in? It’s not me who is changing the word, but the god of this world [the Pope] and even changed the Sabbath from the seventh day of the week to the first day and placed himself on the throne of God declaring himself to be God.

Is this the bible you’ll getting your word from? It’s no wonder you’ll on the wrong side in this fight between good and evil and light and darkness! The Pope’s bible is corrupt and will corrupt anyone who will put his faith in the hands of the god of this world, the Pope of Rome. This god of this world is in direct opposition to the true God of Heaven, so what would you expect from a bible he produced?

There are many New Age Bible, corrupt bibles that are a result of this god of this world that you can find to say anything you want it to say; one of the false bibles from this source is the NIV bible which is one of the most corrupt of them all. This New age Bible of the Pope has even placed Lucifer on the throne of Christ and claim that it was Jesus who fell from heaven and did weaken the nations.

Be careful where you get the word from and make sure you know who’s word it really is, the god of this world or the God od Heaven!


Rev. Akins profile image

Rev. Akins 2 years ago from Tucson, AZ Author

I realize we are not going to change either side, but I do have to say, wow. The Pope's Bible and battle between Good and Evil? I am glad, r-o-y you are so convicted in you faith. I am also glad God is the one in charge. I realize this may be a hot button issue, but I still firmly believe Wbc uses one issue to make a spectacle of themselves. They believe that one sin is worse than others, in my opinion, because they do not sin in this way. Your sin is worse than my sin, because it is you. We need to see the Word of God as love, not hate. I am glad some found new learning, I am glad some found a topic to discuss. I have certainly learned from this encounter.


Jodah profile image

Jodah 2 years ago from Queensland Australia

This type of debate though very interesting r-o-y and Re. Akins, is the reason why Christianity is so often attacked and ridiculed by outsiders and atheists. there is too much differing in interpretation of god's word, and what is and isn't god's word. we need to be more united in our beliefs and how we act in this world. If Christians can'r get on with each other, what hope do we have?


Rev. Akins profile image

Rev. Akins 2 years ago from Tucson, AZ Author

I agree Jodah. We have probably gotten off track. :-) Too often people are sure they are correct or that others have to be wrong. I hope the idea that God can work through all people in a good and loving way is more the point. Thanks for the reminder.


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 2 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

Perhaps off track and I take the fault there. But it did make me look up NKJ, Leviticus 18:22 and several other versions and so that is good as we should all try to keep learning. And they are all the same as the Latin Vulgate and Hebrew Bible and not what was quoted here. No where is this found in the Bible: "According to the word of God the homosexual lifestyle is an abomination before God"

John is correct here. Airing our dirty laundry in public is harmful, but on the other hand not airing it may be more harmful.


Rev. Akins profile image

Rev. Akins 2 years ago from Tucson, AZ Author

R-o-y I understand you are dedicated and feel you are right. But seriously, if you cannot say something in a simple way, or in fewer words, then it is really hard to debate with you. You don't want to hear anything I have to say because it is not what you believe. I am sorry for you. I do not agree with most of what you say, because I studied the Bible in the actual languages it was written (Greek and Hebrew) and I understand the issues and challenges of translation. I don't know what else to tell you. Neither one of us has to be right or wrong, but I doubt you want to hear that either.


r-o-y profile image

r-o-y 2 years ago

No matter what language you study the bible in without the aid of the Holy Spirit you will never get an understanding of the Word of God. Instead of going to God in prayer and ask Him to shed light on his word most go to other fallen men for their answers. You go to other languages to learn of God, I would rather go to God himself who said we have direct access to his Throne.

What about the post I sent that you that you rejected identifying the NIV Bible as a work of deception, can we discuss that?


r-o-y profile image

r-o-y 2 years ago

I was in a debate a few years back with a person right here in hubpages who was proud of their knowledge the Hebrew Scripture, this education of scripture they acquired by reading and studying websites and assumed that everything that they put in these websites are accurate and true full this person found a Hebrew Website that translated a word just as they had. That person was totally surprise when I found another interpreted the word just the opposite and agreed with my interpretation of the word.

Point is, the websites that people go to be educated on the word of God are just people like me and you and most twist scripture, but they make the claim this is the true meaning of a word and another says just the opposite, which one is right? Both make strong arguments, but both can’t be right. What happens is many times the word having more than one meaning. These websites that people are so proud of because they believe are educating in the word of God constantly contradict each other.

Because a person study these websites does not mean the information they are receiving is accurate, knowing this to be the case I cannot depend on them to learn of God, all preachers and teachers of the Word much direct people to god in prayer for enlighten, and not to other websites to learn of God. If you the Vulgate for answers on the Web the will send you to a site that agrees with their interpret tation of the word and versa. A preacher of the Word of God must know they must go to god in prayer for enlightenment, not to other Websites which are full of deceptions.


r-o-y profile image

r-o-y 2 years ago

This is my last post, I’ve been constantly trying to get you to discuss the word of God, and I’ve asked questions that you refuse to even try to answer. You try to give the impression that you can’t debate with me because I use too many word to get my point across, but I can’t express myself in with just three sentences.

I’ll admit that the post on the NIV Bible was a bit long, for that I apologize, but I was trying to get your attention.

I brought up many important things here you commented on nothing, how can we have a discussion when you want participate? The easy thing to do is just drop out and find any reason to end the conversation. I’ll leave you the first question I asked you in the beginning.

Do you preach on the sinfulness of homosexuality or do you just avoid the topic, I don’t expect an answer from you, but I just can’t understand why this is such a hard thing for you to do, just be true full. You would rather go around in circles with your problem with one word. Abomination!

Later!


Rev. Akins profile image

Rev. Akins 2 years ago from Tucson, AZ Author

I will answer your two points- 1) I did not learn Hebrew from a website, I went to seminary for three years and studied under some of the greatest (in my opinion) Hebrew scholars that are not Jewish. 2) I do not preach about homosexuality from the pulpit because I preach about God's love. I do not preach hate, abomination, or anything else that is not about reconciliation or God's grace. The greatest trouble with debating you, is that quite honestly you never see yourself as being able to be wrong. You do not understand that you are human and capable of making any errors. Why speak to someone who is always right in their own world? I chose to no longer participate in our "debate" when you continued to explain hateful and judgmental theology that has nothing to do with why Jesus died for us. I am sure you will reply to this, and I will let you have the last word in the "debate", but I hope one day you can read this and realize how much you represent everything that WBC does wrong in Christianity.


r-o-y profile image

r-o-y 2 years ago

You’ve been exposed; you are no preacher of the Gospel of Jesus Christ you need to remove that Rev… from your site!

Later!


Jodah profile image

Jodah 2 years ago from Queensland Australia

I support you all the way Rev. Akins. I think you handled this situation very well. If r-o-y wanted such a debate he should start a forum thread not hijack your wonderful hub. I will always support "love" over "hate"...If r-o-y was so fanatical about being right he could have spent some time checking his comments for grammatical mistakes. They were full of errors and made it difficult to read...lol.


r-o-y profile image

r-o-y 2 years ago

Now don’t do what I think you are about to do, don’t set yourself up again, if you come back, come back talking doctrine. I’m waiting to see what you do next!


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 2 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

I was so interested that I went and read some of R-o-y and it is very enlightening and helpful. I am impressed with the effort and knowledge that goes into what he writes. I wonder if there is a possibility that the Holy Spirit does in fact tell me that the only message is love, like it does for Roy hate. This article points out the need for both. So we can exercise free will. Surely while I judge distances and danger I cannot judge him and his bent on life. Rev. you did a great job here. I have learned much and from that can reveal the questions to others. I reckon you are what I call a good preacher. I just really thank you.


Rev. Akins profile image

Rev. Akins 2 years ago from Tucson, AZ Author

I appreciate the support. I have two small children and can see when logic or arguing is not going to work. I can see there are differing philosophies, I just wish others could as well. I agree it is hard to read poorly written arguments. I also find it sad when someone says they use poor grammar on purpose. It has been an interesting discussion, and I have learned from this encounter. Thank you for all the thoughts, may we find some middle ground that is less volatile.


Jodah profile image

Jodah 2 years ago from Queensland Australia

Haha it's funny. I wasn't even involved in the debate. I simply tried to adjudicate when it seemed to be getting out of control. be my guest if you feel inclined r-o-y to keep it going, and I won't even read your posts so i won't be distracted by your grammar. I'll leave it between you and Rev.Akins, as it has been all along. But then you said earlier you were't writing any more on here, so who knows. I don't talk doctrine because I am not a student of the bible. I leave that to the experts....I don't argue anything that I am not qualified in. I am simply on the side of love and acceptance over hate and accusation. Eric may have a good point, there is a place for both...so maybe your point of view has its place. It's up to Rev.Akins if he responds further, it is his hub after all. I have finished commenting. Have a great day.


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 2 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

Much said and much to think about. Rev. again I thank you. Being a child I have much to learn. I think I will go and learn of this hatred and anger elsewhere.


Rev. Akins profile image

Rev. Akins 2 years ago from Tucson, AZ Author

I guess I made some bad assumptions on the comments, but jut to be clear, I am going to delete comments that do not follow some basic courtesies. 1) I was called and ordained by God after years of schooling to be a reverend. Whatever your opinion of that process is, I am a Rev, and would appreciate being called such. 2) If you cannot say something in less than hub length I do not need to read it as a comment- Einstein once said "If you cannot explain it in simple terms, you obviously don't understand it very well." and finally this is a place to learn and understand that people are different, please do not talk as if you have all the answers. I try to follow these rules, and if comments cannot follow these, I will delete them. Thank you all for your comments and words, I have learned a lot and will hopefully learn more.


Carola Finch profile image

Carola Finch 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

Amen, Rev. Akins. I take the same approach with my hub comments.

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