Where Has All The Atheists Came From?

What a difference 5 years make

This is something I wrote a few years ago and as I look back through the hub it really reminds me just how much we can change in just a matter of a few years. Honestly I don't even remember writing it.

With that in mind I would like to do something a little unique. I am going to respond to my own writing and describe any differences between now and then and explain why my opinion has changed. I will do so in between sections and mark these sections as "2013". I hope a few will find this as interesting as I do. Either way please leave a comment and let me know what you think.

really hate to satisfy the desire of atheists by Christians to pop up and make comments, just so they can make their usual "You are pushing your belief" comment. I only have a few questions.....

We were warned this would happen

Those of us who are believers were warned years ago of what is to come and one of those is the hatred of Christians. I see many, many articles and forum topics on the opinion that there is no god, and why we shouldn't believe. Yet the articles and threads related to Christianity is attacked, mostly saying that we are trying to push our beliefs. Is this not a double standard?

The fact is that if we are wrong than we have nothing to lose, however if the atheists are wrong they have everything to lose. We are commanded by god to love our brother no matter what. If you truly believe that their is a heaven and a hell, would you not try to make sure those you love make it to heaven?

2013 response to "we were warned this would happen"

Honestly, Christians were hated from the day Christ was born and this is surely not something new, and it was something we were warned. The double standard is also nothing new, the argument is like every other debate that has ever happened with both sides pointing out the faults of the other which never solves anything.

It is very true that if the Christians were wrong than they would lose nothing at all, and that makes me curious as to why argue when they lose nothing to begin with. If they are correct however than they have everything to gain. I will say that being just because I believe that

Christian's are not wrong, it certainly doesn't make them right about everything. As I said 5 years ago, we are commanded to love and if you love someone than you would try with all your strength to save them. Therefor I'm curios again as this is part of our belief system why we are hated by so many. Of course there are Christians that are judgmental, and use an affiliation with Christ only as a means to gain respect, trust, and money from others. I feel that when the majority of us are all given that label because of these few, that has become a double standard.

How smart were people in biblical times

The bible can teach you allot about life, weather you believe or don't believe there is no way to deny this. How smart do you think people in biblical times were? Smart enough to create their own rules that would still apply many years later?

The world's population grows smarter as the years go by. Do you really think that people in biblical times could come up with rules that would still apply to todays world?

There are some rules that we are choosing at a rapid pace to ignore, and we are suffering the consequences. Those who do not believe spend millions to come up with an explanation. Why? If you truly don't believe than why try to explain it, its just a coincidence right? It always seems to come from a monkey!

I am not a spokes person for Christianity I want everyone to understand that. I don't live the way I should, and there are plenty of non-believers that run what one could consider to be a better life than me.

I happen to believe that there is something besides "nature," and the fact is everyone else does as-well. If they didn't, they wouldn't spend millions trying to disprove things.

People say that there is nothing Else out there, so why then do we feel the need to name that nothing? The name being nature. I may be called narrow minded by people who believe diffrently than myself, but the same thing could be said for those people.

2013 repsonse

Very true that what the bible teaches when written still applies in this day and time. I feel that the non belief is out of fear, and that this nothing that they believe in, is actually the self fulfilling belief. They can live life with no worries, and live like they want with no consequences to suffer for this life.

What these people do not realize is that we can actually have no worries and live life the way we wish, and not pretend or try to make ourselves believe it. We don't have to do those things because Christ paid our debt for us with his life. All we have to do is accept the gift.

If you have never accepted Christ and would like to know how please contact me personally

More by this Author


Comments 60 comments

livelonger profile image

livelonger 7 years ago from San Francisco

I am an agnostic. For people, either the religious, or atheists, to pretend they have all the answers based on "common sense", or a book that their parents told them to believe in, strikes me as a rush to judgment and a display of ignorant arrogance. The fact is that we don't have any of the answers about why we came out, why we're here, what happens after we die, etc. Anyone pretending to know the answer, or ignorantly "believing" in an answer based on absolutely nothing, is deluding themself.


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

I must point out again that ignorance is a lack of knowledge on a perticular subject.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 7 years ago from San Francisco

Agreed. So we are all ignorant when it comes to such epistemiological questions.


AEvans profile image

AEvans 7 years ago from SomeWhere Out There

Love your brother I absolutely agree and at the same time I cannot push my own beliefs on someone else. So as always I stay open minded. Great article!!


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

Actually I am ignorant as to what epistemiological means!


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 7 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

It is not possible to prove non-existence of something, because to do so you would have to look everywhere and for all time. Atheists therefore can't prove God doesn't exist. Stating there is no god is therefore stating a belief (that there is no god). The Rationalist view is that such statements are unnecessary. There is no need for belief.


maestrowhit profile image

maestrowhit 7 years ago from Virginia

The salvation of Christ is not from a demise in the afterlife; it's from the demise in which we all exist already. And from that hell, we cannot lead someone out - it is the work of God's Spirit from within the person. There is a lot of hatred directed towards Christisans because so many of them impose their false doctrines of fear upon non-believers. Those "Christians" are the reason I don't call myself a Christian. They have done so much damage to the title that it no longer bears the meaning - "follower of Jesus Christ." You don't need to warn people about the afterlife. What you need to do is set an example of Christ's love with your lifestyle. Going around telling people to beware, repent, change your ways, or else burn in a lake of fire, is NOT setting the example of Christ.


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

I can agree with you on that maestro, thanks.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 7 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

Jesus said, "Pray this way ... Your Kingdom come (ie Right Now) ... Your will be done (ie Right Now) ... on Earth as in Heaven ...

Salvation is a vital first step, but he also said we need to make disciples (i.e students, learners, devoted followers) not simply converts. And their primary job is to make earth more heaven like. Debating, as much as I personally enjoy it, won't help.

The fruit of the Spirit is:

Love Joy Peace Longsuffering Kindness Goodness Faithfulness Gentleness Self-control

The follow up comment is "Against such there is no law". I sometimes get sucked into debates because I enjoy debating. If I spend time with God, those attributes will manifest naturally. There's nothing people can say or do about that, and often it is the lack of that fruit that leads to some of the disbeleif.


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks for sharing you wisdom bdazzler, your right it is very easy to get caught up in this type of thing.


pylos26 7 years ago

Please let me assure you that one does not have to be a Christian to know God ( the creator of the universe). Hell man, Christians don’t have a monopoly on God. Please, run right along and hedge your bet since you think you have nothing to lose. How bout all the investments and money you continue to lop over into that pan on Sunday that you’ve made on your Christianism. Can you hedge that??? This is so disgusting; my post only covers the first chapter. no real need to read further, but if i get bored I probably will. I'm sure you are a good person, you just haven't researched your material that you're asserting as fact.


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

First off I have said nothing is fact, this is 100% my opinion which requires no research. Maybe you should research the definition of monopoly, I'm sure you could have come up with something better than that. I'm not even sure you read the first line of this, because you are not making any sense.

Thanks for commenting 


pylos26 7 years ago

sir...i have no need to research monopoly...apparantly you haven't read your own material. you say you have asserted no "facts", i would sent you back to your first sentence in your second paragraph, where you start the sentence with " The fact is"...again i say you seem a nice fellow, just misinformed and a bit confussed.


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

That says the fact is if we are wrong we have nothing to lose....

Will if you are not going to learn what it means and how you can apply it in sarcasm than you shouldn't use it.

If you are going to call me confused and mis informed thats fine, just back it up with something that makes sense. We give our tithe by our on choice, and oh no I forgot that I said one line was a fact. I guess that makes me ignorant. 

You really cannot be seriously calling me mis-informed. 


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 7 years ago from Seattle, WA

I love the word "misinformed." Never has a word so easily been tossed about without a fraction of thought as to what it means or even how it's being used!

Let's put it this way: on my "gay rights" hub, I had about three-four mormons hop on and call me misinformed, and when I posed the question "why?" (simple question isn't it?!) they never showed up again!

See, misinformed means something awesome in and of its own right! It means you can call someone a name without being labeled a racist, bigot, closeminded fool, or jackass. It also means that no matter what you NEVER EVER EVER have to back it up with any basis WHATSOEVER.

Isn't it great?:D


allshookup profile image

allshookup 7 years ago from The South, United States

If you have seen me comment on anything religious, you know where I stand. As most of the people who has posted on your hub do. I am very familiar with most of them as they are me. Christ is the only way to Heaven. Christians didn't come up with is concept. God did. And we are attacked when we try to share God's Word with them. And I know all of you know the ones I am talking about. It comes across to me that they are very insecure in their hearts as they have nothing to believe in, so their goal is to trash those who are saved. The Bible says God hears the prayers of the righteous. Those are the believers in what He says. Christians didn't set the rules, but there are many on here who act like they do. I have tried so hard to share God's Word, only to be ridiculed. But, since it was for Him, I take it. I even went so far as to type the whole Romans Road to Salvation and type the sinners' prayer, only to be called a liar. Another thing said often by them is that God would never send anyone to Hell. That's true. He never sends anyone to Hell, they choose to go there. It's everyone's choice where they spend eternity. They also say that since Christians aren't perfect just as Jesus was, that there are no real Christians. Which is another out-right lie. Of course we are not perfect, we are only human. We will not be perfect until we go to live with Him. It seems some look for reasons not to trust in Christ. How sad that is. I have seen some who say they are saved, yet on here say things that goes directly against what the Bible says. I wish I as more perfect, I know I am not. I strive to be more Christ-like everyday. Although I realize I will not accomplish this until I am with Him in Heaven, like all those who are saved, we strive to be more like Him. I wish that those who are not saved could understand that. And also that they would understand that we only share His Word with them because we care for their souls.


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

Well put asu! If we were all perfect we wouldn't need christ to get into heaven.

They will always find some reason why we are wrong.

I see articles and forum posts everyday about things I disagree with, but I feel no need to ridicule them about it. Those who choose to do this to us should ask themselves why the feel the need to do so.

It's not ok to be racist, homophobic, or sexist and its not ok for us to speak gods word to non-believers. It is however ok to ridicule us for what we believe in.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 7 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

Hey allshook up, remember what Jesus said in John 15:18-19 ... you're in good company!


pylos26 profile image

pylos26 7 years ago from America

Knslms…I am not sure you comprehended my use of the word “monopoly” when I used it in a previous post stating that “Christians do hot have a monopoly on God”. Whether you acknowledge it or not, your firm belief in your “man made yarn” depicting a long stringy haired dude sporting sandals and a robe named “Jesus” bears little interest to those individuals who are not Christians, and the reality “of another person’s view” does not make them atheists. Dude, I realize and acknowledge the existence of God, but your “man made tale” about that dude named “Jesus” is pretty shaky.


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

I know what you meant


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 7 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

knsims - who are 'all the atheists'? of whom you speak? There have always been thinking people who have not accepted the teachings of the predominant church. More recently, there have been many who don't accept the bible as the word of god. If someone does not accept the bible as the word of god, his argument is not with god, but with man. In my earlier post (which received no response) I was agreeing with you that no-one can prove non-existence of god or anything else. Atheism is the belief that there is no god. That is logically not the same as not believing there is a god. The second position which is part of agnosticism (and not incompatible with rationalism) is far commoner than the first.


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

I am speaking of athiests (the belief that there is no god) I personally have never noticed so many people who believe this.


pylos26 profile image

pylos26 7 years ago from America

Dude, you seem to have deposited all your eggs in one basket that was woven by a hoodwinker bearing the title of King James I and King James VI of England and Scotland.

Do you not check out a person’s credibility and credentials before investing such a huge amount of your money and time and 100% of your faith and belief into the same hoodwinker’s story or yarn that has been distributed to various flavors of religion as fact, which is actually little more than poorly constructed mythology??? What a pity…

King James VI of Scotland and King James I of Great Britain, (both the same person), was an end result of generations of dim-witted inbreeding and proclaimed by many to be a homosexual weakling. I would suggest that this guy was wicked and without credibility, putting to death at his will, using his “divine right as king”, anyone that disagreed with his “divine” personal interpretations of the translations from Greek into Arabic, then into his English proclaimed “version of the holy bible”. Show me someone that takes such a hoodwinker’s scribbling seriously and I’ll so you someone that has been “misinformed”.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 7 years ago from San Francisco

Paraglider: he might be talking about the 16% of Americans that are not religious at all (according to a recent survey) but that includes atheists, agnostics, and people who simply have no affiliation with any religion/faith. There have also been a few well-publicized books published by Daniel Dennett, Christopher Hitchens, and Richard Dawkins, that have raised the profile of atheists and the areligious, in general, here in the U.S.

I would say that knsmls is misunderstanding what atheists believe, however, and what their intent is in "spending millions to disprove things."


allshookup profile image

allshookup 7 years ago from The South, United States

Psalm 14:1 "A fool hath said in his heart there is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good." KJV

A fool is not someone who is stupid or uneducated, but a person who rejects God. By rejecting God, the rool rejects the one who made moral and spiritual laws that make life just and good. A fool is indeed corrupt, because to deny God's existence allows wickedness to prevail. The Apostle Paul quotes these verses in Romans 3:10-12 as he mourns the lack of singleheartedness toward God and thus the rampant spread of evil. The wise, however, not only believe in God, but also strive to please Him. To believe there is a God but refuse to please Him is also foolish. We don't need to be a fool of either sort.


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

Isn't it a shame that in order to gain all this useless knowledge one must lose common sense. Pylos you watch to much Dawson's Creek, all of the analogies do not make you appear smart, or correct.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 7 years ago from The South, United States

That is something that I have noticed that is kinda strange. Some of the smartest people I know (book smart) have no common sense at all. They couldn't pour a pea out of a boot. It amazes me. I have a friend who is a nurse practioner and she has 5 kids and still can't figure out how this happened. She calls me to ask every time. So there's just 1 example of what I mean. She can't clean her house or get anywhere on time either. But give her a book and she's right at home. It's odd how most people either have common sense or book sense. It's rare to find a person with both. LOL on Dawson's Creek!


livelonger profile image

livelonger 7 years ago from San Francisco

Well, it takes all types to make the world go round. Vive la difference!


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 7 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

knsims - I am not entirely convinced that you have given much thought to the various positions that can be described as atheist or agnostic. As it happens, I've just written a hub on this which might interest you http://hubpages.com/hub/Believers-Agnostics-Atheis...


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

I guess you just can't have both, I'll take common sense over book sense anyday!

I can agree that it takes all types to make the world go round, that was my grandmother's favorite saying and she was a firm christian.

Thanks for sharing paraglider.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 7 years ago from San Francisco

I know many, many people who have both book sense and common sense, and plenty of people who have neither! (Just watch an episode of Judge Judy or Jerry Springer to see the latter)


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

lmao those are actors on Jerry


pylos26 profile image

pylos26 7 years ago from America

most christians posting on your hub don't have a clue about where their so called "evidence of christian proof" came from. again, they simply dump all their eggs into king james' homosexual basket(bible) and pledge their lives on it. a pity.


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

Christians don't have a need for evidence or prooof of anything. Its about faith.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 7 years ago from The South, United States

Amen!


livelonger profile image

livelonger 7 years ago from San Francisco

I am totally supportive of other people wanting to believe what they want to believe (without evidence or proof), as long as they don't force the rest of us to believe the same thing!


allshookup profile image

allshookup 7 years ago from The South, United States

There is no way to FORCE anyone to believe anything. I'm not sure why people say that. No one can make anyone beleive anything. We all have free will.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 7 years ago from San Francisco

I guess I meant with regards to civil matters, where some argue that laws should adhere to the (faith-based, not evidence-based) religion of the majority. You're right - we all have control over what we choose to believe at a personal level.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 7 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

On a civl level we shouldn't let majority rule? Isn't that the core of a democracy?


livelonger profile image

livelonger 7 years ago from San Francisco

On matters of policy, yes. On setting minority rights, no. That's what the Constitution is for.


Marian Swift profile image

Marian Swift 7 years ago from San Francisco Bay Area

Livelonger is correct.  If all rights were decided by majority rule, only white male landowners over 21 would be able to vote.  Slavery would be a thriving and popular business model today.  Two people of different ethnic backgrounds and/or religions would not be able marry.  Women's rights to own property or establish credit would be far reduced or nonexistent.

And so on ...


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 7 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

But isn't the constituion amended and ratified by a "super-majority"? 


Marian Swift profile image

Marian Swift 7 years ago from San Francisco Bay Area

A sizeable minority can defeat a super-majority vote.  The Constitutional amendment process is a long one that can take many years.

Prop. 8 won by a simple majority. It would have lost if a super-majority had been required. Conversely, on the national front, the Equal Rights Amendment, focusing on gender equality, was never able to make the numbers required for ratification.

But amendment is not the only avenue of change.  Changes in -interpretation- of the Constitution can and do take place, with results both minor and major.  The Judicial branch of the government was established with this very process in mind.  It's their job.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 7 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

Actually I agree.  There is an unforunate practical example of how this  does not work unless a majority wants it to. 

In the 1800s, during one of the most shameful events in American history, the supreme court ruled (rightly) that the native population was soverign and not subject to forcible removal.  Andrew Jackson, knowing that the majority would back him, ignored the supreme court, with no consequence, political or legal, to himself and continued executing what is now known as the Trail of Tears.

Regardless of how it "should" be, any minority only has the rights the majority will enforce. Not saying that's good. I'm just saying that's how it has been.

The point goes back to what AllShookUp said, nobody can be forced to believe anything ... and the majority opinions, right or wrong will eventually dominate regardless of their correctness.

Thus, the only real change takes place in hearts and minds, not in rules and regulations.

Which is why a place like Hubpages is so important, so we can have a free exchange of ideas.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 7 years ago from The South, United States

I think you said it all when you said that change has to start in our hearts and minds. That's the beginning. And if we do that, it will spread!


nwunderlich profile image

nwunderlich 7 years ago from Sacramento

I don't understand this fixation on proof of belief. People believe things because they know them in their heart to be true. I know in my heart God is true, and Jesus is true. that's all I need. No one has proof of that, or needs proof of that. If you do, you are missing the whole concept of faith (evidence of things unseen). As for the epistimology of it - that is like saying you don't believe the sun will always rise in the morning. As far as you know, it always has, and therefore you assume it always will. As far as I know, God has always existed, and I assume God always will exist. It's not something I need proof in. So when you ask Christians (or any religion) for proof of their belief - you must remember they don't have to have proof.

Also - and i forget who made the comment about not everyone beleiving in the main church - they main church in the world isn't Christianity (although it is rising). It is Islam. Many more Islamics than Christians in the world. I don't say their view of God is wrong, just different, and not one I believe in.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 7 years ago from San Francisco

The difference is that while you don't need to justify beliefs to yourself, you do need to justify them to other people with something other than "trust me." If you claim the sun rises in the morning, I only need to observe that for myself to know that it seems to be true. When everyone observes the same thing, we can all agree that it's true. When you say God exists, I can ask you for proof. If you don't provide any, there's no real reason, except for peer pressure or fear of punishment (called Pascal's Wager), for me to take you for your word. Philosophers use the terms a priori and a posteriori to denote the difference.

What I wonder is if religious people really believe everything in their holy book is true. Do Christians really believe there was a talking snake? Do Mormons really believe in the planet Kolob? It seems like a giant leap to go from "there seems to be something greater than us that created existence" to "God said this, that, and did all of these improbable things that no one has any evidence for; oh, and he doesn't want you to eat shellfish or mix different fabrics together".


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

I already mentioned it but I will do so again because someone obviously misssed it.

I asked no one to read this who has a different belief than me. I thank you for reading and for commenting, but its always the same thing when it comes to christians "forcing beliefs" I write about what I believe and you guys write what you believe. I am no more forcing my belief than anyone else.


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thats the thing livelonger, for christians it's about faith. I ask that you give the belief a chance but only you can decide what you believe in.

To me there is plenty of proof, but you have to look to see.


Marian Swift profile image

Marian Swift 7 years ago from San Francisco Bay Area

@BDazzler ...

It took Supreme Court action (Brown vs. the Department of Education) to bring the issue of mandatory segregation of schools to the fore.  And yes, after that decision there were repercussions.  But without that decision -- if we'd waited for hearts and minds to change when folks saw no reason for change -- we'd likely still have mandatory segregation.

Injustices cannot wait for popular resolve. Political will just does not come together in a vacuum -- it takes a nudge. Fortunately, we do have the judicial system which, when it works properly, can provide that nudge in a (relatively) peaceful manner.

The ability of California voters to revise the state Constitution by simple majority is an anomaly -- like a lot of things Californian.  (I live here, so I can say that!)  But even here, there is a distinction between a revision and a full-on amendment, which does require a supermajority plus Legslature approval.

There is an argument that Prop. 8 was improperly classified as a revision, when in reality, due to the scope of constitutional change, it was an amendment.  So it may come back for the full amendment procedure after a trip or two to the courthouse.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 7 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

The president happened to agree with the supreme court in that case, so he could use force of arms to trump the governors sttempt to not enforce it. There were enough voters who agreed witht he court that not enforcing the rule would have been a "bad plan".

In England, slavery was overturned by winning the hearts and minds. In the US, it was overturned with bloodshed. I think England did a better job and had fewer repurcussions.

The fact that Brown Vs. Board of Ed had to be ruled on at all was because we tried to do with force of arms what should have been done with words a hundred years earlier.


pylos26 profile image

pylos26 7 years ago from America

if christians don't need evidence to support their beliefs, then, why not stop quoting rubbish from king james' poor mythology in an attempt to promote it.


pylos26 profile image

pylos26 7 years ago from America

dude you have air heads on your hub quoting and posting stuff from king james' version of crap, with evidence existing in "public record" to the contrary. Anyone with an IQ of over two would recognize this and run away.

sorry for all the screwed up posts...you christians really heat me up,,,


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

We are just quoting the part, that is coming to pass. I havn't quoted it at all, as I feel and see god in my life. I do need it to keep me on a straight path. If it's such a sure thing that anyone can see than why bother?

Christians are trying to save you from hell.

what are trying to prove? If you are correct and we are wrong than what have you to gain?


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

If you want proof than ask yourself why christians get you so wound up.

Because they believe something differently than you.

How often do you disagree with someone on any given subject? Does it get you as wound up on other subjects?


pylos26 profile image

pylos26 7 years ago from America

i'm tired of kicking this dead horse...gonna shut up now...ain't gonna talk no more...


pylos26 profile image

pylos26 7 years ago from America

well here i am again...how in the world can you save me from hell...when you have no idea where your faith and belief came from. are you acting on a gut feeling...???...if so, you're just pissing into the wind...


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

So where did your belief come from? I know exactly where my belief come from. I keep seeing people write that my belief is something that I was told about. That's nothing more than an ignorant assumption.


pylos26 profile image

pylos26 7 years ago from America

well...sir...since you seem to be unable to answer a simple question...i'm outa here...so long dude...


knslms profile image

knslms 7 years ago from North Carolina Author

Would help if I knew the question, but I'm not complaining

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