Elijah the Prophet Will Not Return

Elijah Fed by the Ravens, Il Guercino, Giovanni Francesco Barbieri, (1591-1666)
Elijah Fed by the Ravens, Il Guercino, Giovanni Francesco Barbieri, (1591-1666) | Source
Author
Author

Introduction

Due to the influence of Dispensationalism with its insistence on interpreting the Scriptures literally, many Christians may feel it compromises their beliefs to consider a spiritual interpretation even when appropriate.

For example, Jesus' discourse with His disciples in Matthew 17:10-13 is typical of the Scriptures being misunderstood by those who insist on the literal return of Elijah.

  • Mat 17:10-13 KJV And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

The disciples believed Elijah would physically return; the Jewish people still set a place for him at the Passover table. However, Jesus taught the disciples the spiritual significance of John the Baptist's ministry and the fulfilment of Malachi's prophecy.

Let's examine the misconstrued literal interpretation of 'Elijah's return'.

The Prophet Malachi

The Prophet Malachi, Duccio di Buoninsegna (c1255-1319)
The Prophet Malachi, Duccio di Buoninsegna (c1255-1319) | Source

The disciples missed ‘the second coming of Elijah’ and it is not difficult to understand why, since they interpreted Malachi 4:5 literally.

Malachi the Prophet

Malachi was the last of the Old Testament prophets to call Israel to repentance. There was a gap of 400 years between Malachi and John the Baptist.

  • Mal 3:1-2 KJV Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. 2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

  • Mal 4:5 KJV Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Malachi proclaimed Elijah would prepare the way of the Messiah, prior to 'the great and dreadful day of the LORD'.

A Quote from John Wesley's Explanatory Notes

Malachi 4:5 'The great and dreadful day of the Lord - This literally refers to the times of vengeance upon the Jews, from the death of Christ to the final desolation of the city and temple, and by accommodation, to the end of the world.’

Of all the commentaries at my disposal, John Wesley most clearly defined Malachi 4:5.

Far be it from me to criticise such a wonderful man of God, but in my opinion, it is a great pity he felt it necessary to add 'and by accommodation, to the end of the world’. There is in no mention of the end of the world in the Scriptures.

Do you believe Elijah will return in the future?

  • Yes
  • No
See results without voting

The Timeline of Elijah the Prophet's Return

It is important to identify the timeline of Elijah’s coming; Malachi prophesied Elijah would prepare the way for two major events:

1) 'I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me' To prepare the way prior to Christ's ministry.

2) 'before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord' To proclaim the terrible day of the Lord, which involved the destruction of the temple, Jerusalem, and the dispersion of the Jews.

John the Baptist warned of these events, and both were fulfilled during the lifetime of his generation.

  • Mat 17:12-13 KJV But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

According to Dispensationalism, John did not demonstrate the miracles of Elijah, and the great and dreadful Day of the Lord had not occurred, therefore, Malachi's prophecy remains unfulfilled until a future appearance of Elijah. This assumption is despite the words of Jesus that Elijah had already come! There is neither any suggestion in the Scriptures of a 2000 years gap between the two events, nor the slightest hint of double fulfillment of prophecy, as some scholars suggest. If the great and dreadful day of the Lord is a future event in the 21st century, then why did Jesus emphatically state 'Elijah' returned in the 1st century AD?

The great and dreadful day of the Lord was not an 'end of the world' event in the far and distant future. On the contrary, Malachi's prophecy was written specifically to the Children of Israel, whose Old Covenant relationship with the Lord was about to end in judgement. The disciples missed ‘the second coming of Elijah' because they interpreted Malachi 4:5 literally.

John the Baptist

John the Baptist, Titian (c1487-1576)
John the Baptist, Titian (c1487-1576) | Source

John the Baptist

According to the Scribes, from their literal interpretation of Malachi 4:5, Elijah would return as a forerunner to the Messiah.

Jewish scholars anticipated the physical return of Elijah, descending from heaven in the chariot that had previously caught him away. Therefore, in their estimation, John the Baptist could not have been Elijah, and Jesus could not have been their long awaited Messiah.

  • Luk 1:15-17 KJV For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

John came 'in the spirit and power of Elijah', and was 'filled with the Holy Ghost even from his mother's womb'. It was the same 'spirit and power' of God that Elijah had been empowered with 800 years earlier, but John was not Elijah in person.

  • Luk 7:27-28 KJV This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

A Quote from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

Luke 7:28 'He was, upon this account, so great, that really there was not a greater prophet than he. Prophets were the greatest that were born of women, more honourable than kings and princes, and John was the greatest of all the prophets. The country was not sensible what a valuable, what an invaluable, man it had in it, when John Baptist went about preaching and baptizing. And yet he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.'
  • Acts 13:25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.

Some scholars propagate John failed in his ministry. Such a suggestion contradicts the words of Jesus when He spoke of John being the greatest of the prophets. Not only by his character, preaching, faithfulness and martyrdom, John's ministry was of the greatest importance in that he prepared the way for the Messiah and warned of impending judgement. John fulfilled his course.

A Quote from Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible

Acts 13:25 'As John fulfilled his course - As John was fulfilling his race, he said, etc. It has been supposed that the word δρομον, course, or race, is used here to point out the short duration of the Baptist’s ministry, and the fervent zeal with which he performed it. It signifies properly his ministry, or life. A man’s work, employment, function, etc., is his race, course, or way of life. John had a ministry from God; and he discharged the duties of it with zeal and diligence; bore the fatigues of it with patience and resignation; and was gloriously successful in it, because the hand of the Lord was with him.'

  • Joh 1:20-21 KJV And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

'Art thou Elias?' John the Baptist made it clear, he was not Elijah in person!

'Art thou that prophet?' Meaning the prophet to whom Moses referred in Deuteronomy 18:15. 'The Prophet' promised by Moses was none other than the Messiah. Peter, while preaching Christ to the men of Israel on the day of Pentecost, referred to the prophecy of Moses, thus confirming its fulfillment in their generation…Acts 3:22.

'I am a voice' John called the people to repentance, because the Jews to whom he preached were at that time in a spiritual wilderness and unfit to receive the King...Isaiah 40:3.

  • Joh 1:23 YLT He said, `I am a voice of one crying in the wilderness: Make straight the way of the Lord, as said Isaiah the prophet.'

Although John the Baptist was not Elijah in person, he was the fulfilment of the prophecy.

The Beheading of St John the Baptist

The Beheading of St John the Baptist, Caravaggio (1573-1610)
The Beheading of St John the Baptist, Caravaggio (1573-1610) | Source

‘If Ye Will Receive It’

  • Mat 11:14-15 KJV And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. 15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

‘if ye will receive it’ Jesus accentuated the importance of His statement, He was teaching a doctrine different to the prevalent view at the time. His proclamation varied from the current expectations of the Jews, and therefore the disciples might be disposed to question it.

Matthew 11:15 ‘He that hath ears to hear ...' - This expression is frequently used by Christ. It is a proverbial expression, implying that the highest attention should be given to what was spoken. The doctrine about John he regarded as of the greatest importance. He among you, says he, that has the faculty of understanding this, or that will believe that this is the Elijah spoken of, let him attend to it and remember it.’

— Albert Barnes, Notes on the Bible

Feedback

Has this Hub challenged you to search the Scriptures?

  • Yes
  • No
See results without voting

Conclusion

The vast majority of John the Baptist’s generation was oblivious to the Messiah, and stubbornly ignored the warnings of impending doom. Consequently, except for the remnant, it suffered the judgement in AD 70.

Jesus taught the disciples an important lesson concerning Old Testament prophecy when He explained the spiritual fulfillment of ‘the second coming of Elijah’. Not all prophecy is to be interpreted literally, and certainly not by the theory of double fulfillment!

The Bible student has to be open minded and capable of differentiating between literal and spiritual fulfillment without presupposition or bias.

This is also a prerequisite when interpreting prophecies concerning the second coming of Christ!

The fulfillment of Malachi's prophecy was in the 1st century AD.

What do you think?

Alexander Gibb

© 2011 Alexander Gibb

More by this Author


Comments 107 comments

chim4real_2006 profile image

chim4real_2006 5 years ago

Elijah will return when Christ come.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 5 years ago from UK Author

chim4real

Thank you for visiting my Hub and for your comment.

I have attempted to lay out my understanding of Matthew 17:10-13 with Scriptures to support it.

Your comment is a widely accepted view, but can you show me where I have gone wrong and Scriptural support for your comment.


Eliyah WP Currie 5 years ago

Some information is available at the listed URL. If you can here the voice of the Holy Ghost[Spirit], ask him if your understanding is wrong and if Eliyah shall be or is in the Earth. His sheep shall here his VOICE, not depend on their own interpretation of un-anointed translations, which have errors. The book is not the living Master.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

I fully appreciated your hub. There are to be two final witnesses during 1260 days of the 'Great Tribulation', according to Revelation, before God's wrath is poured out upon spiritual 'Babylon' (Rev 11:12-19; compare Rev 16:21, then ch 18). They will be clothed in sackcloth and will exhibit signs shown in history of Moses and Elijah (Rev 11:3-6). Some think these two witnesses are the 'olive trees' (Jews) and 'lampstands' (Christians); some think they are two actual prophets. We don't know who they will be, for they are not named. Enoch and Elijah were the two that didn't see death in the Bible, but Moses and Elijah appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration.

Spiritually, I see that the 'spirit' of the 'prophets' is the Holy Spirit. The 'spirit of Elijah' would be understood to be the 'spirit of the prophet'. If we look at 1 Cor 14:32, this opens the interpretation up quite a bit. In other words, our focus may be on the flesh (the prophet(s) themselves), while it should be on the Spirit that speaks through them. May we all proclaim the coming of the Lord, for He is coming again.

We cannot be in the millennial reign now, for the Antichrist and false prophet are to be in the Lake of Fire and Satan bound in the pit during that time. I can't say this has happened yet and is yet to come.

Very good hub on the spirit of Elijah who was to come. Jesus said John was Elijah and He spoke the truth. Amen.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 5 years ago from UK Author

Judah's Daughter

Thank you for taking the time to read my Hub, your comment is greatly appreciated.

GB


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 5 years ago from UK Author

Eliyah WP Currie

Thank you for your comment.


Diligent1 4 years ago

Thank you for a clear and thorough explanation. It is bewildering to see the persistence of many believers on a literal interpretation. Why persist in the same mistake that deprived the Jews from recognizing their Lord?! By sternly holding on to a strictly literal interpretation of the scriptures, the majority of the believers have been forced to explain away passages such as the above, passages that unequivocally shed light on the deeply spiritual mission of Christ.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

Diligent1

Thank you for your comment, I agree entirely.


Elijah7 profile image

Elijah7 4 years ago from Israel - England - Hong Kong - Hawaii - Paradise

Wow - are you guys in for a Pleasant Surprise ....

SERIOUSLY ...

The Spirit Of Elijah IS The Holy Spirit - Amen

Naturally, BECAUSE The Lord RETURNS For The Second Time, so does Elias...FIRST....

This IS crystal clear...

Take your time - this is MIGHTY..some due diligence IS Required.

Amen...Love, Hope & Truth...Maranatha...†

† Acts 3 : 20 - 22 †

"And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

Perfect background music here, as you Consider These Days - Amen

http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Music/DaysOfEli...


Jerami profile image

Jerami 4 years ago from Houston tx

It apears that you and I are in agreement more than anyone else that I have had the pleasure to have spoken with.

So far, I have yet to see but two Issues of disagreement. And I see them of little signifigance at this time in our lives.

For me, it is not important whether Jesus' second coming happened in 70, 96, or 138 AD.

The important thing is to acknowledge that it has happened exactly as Jesus said that it would, and therefore Jesus wasn't lieing.

I should warn you though.

To continue down this train of thought will take you to a place that for a little while, you may wish that you haddn't gone. But this too will pass.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

Jerami

Thank you, I know exactly what you mean.


Elijah7 profile image

Elijah7 4 years ago from Israel - England - Hong Kong - Hawaii - Paradise

Dear searchinsany and Jerami

The tone of your two replies CONFIRMS that "somehow" you seem to think that JESUS has Already Returned and THEREFORE He is NOT COMING BACK AGAIN ???

Forgive me if this understanding is wrong. i GO BY WHAT i READ.

IF this IS your "doctrinal belief position", you STAND ALONE In The Body of Christ in adhering to such a FALSE concept.

For The Official Record : The Promised Millennium Of Perfection, with JESUS Ruling on earth with The Saints, is PRECEDED by the Removal of satan FROM THIS HEMISPHERE.

ALL HISTORY TO DATE Proves that satan has been, and STILL IS, very active indeed, AND that The Gospel has YET to reach every person on earth in ONE GENERATION.

These Three Scriptures BELOW are TRULY WORTH your deep consideration. Please try approaching this Topic without predisposition and WITH a Fresh Open Mind, In JESUS' Holy Name - Amen

There is ONLY ONE Perfect Truth. Anything that is NOT True IS false.

† Acts 1 : 11 - 12 †

"And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven,

† shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. † "

† Mark 13 : 10 †

"And the gospel must first be published among all nations."

† Matthew 24 : 14 †

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

Finally, i DO have one last "phrase" question for you BOTH ...

How many times hath God Revealed Future Events to YOU in dreams, waking visions, written material (considered as fiction at the time of self writing) and Under Covenant (in Writing or Spoken) of "Thus Saith The Lord GOD" ???????

Thank you for taking time to read this reply. Your replies are very important to me.

Maranatha †


Elijah7 profile image

Elijah7 4 years ago from Israel - England - Hong Kong - Hawaii - Paradise

searchinsany..

Did i leave a Comment prior to your last, yet after Jerami ?

(still seem to be seeing some posting bugs - never mind - can you take a look - thanks)

Anyhow, the Essence IS, and forgive me if i am WRONG here, BUT :

Both of you gentleman are CLEARLY Invoking a NEW DOCTRINE, in mine own sight NOW, that :

"The Second Coming of The Lord JESUS Christ Almighty HIMSELF has ALREADY happened ??????"

Is this TRUE ?

(oh yes, think i DID leave a Comment that is NOT showing up, containing this Holy Scripture below - if so, can you APPROVE it please - thanks)

Would be grateful for your views on this Word Of God :

† Acts 1 : 10 - 11 †

"And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

Elijah7

I suggest that you keep a record of your comments. I have posted all your comments, if I withhold any I will let you know the reason why.

I cannot speak for Jerami.

I am not invoking a new doctrine when I write in my Hubs that the second coming of Christ took place in AD 70.

James Russell Stuart (1816–1895) wrote ‘The Parousia’ on the subject.

Clarence Larkin (1850–1924) referred to this view in his book ‘Dispensational Truth’.

J N Darby (1800-1882) introduced the popular ‘End Times’ teaching called ‘Dispensationalism’ in 1830, which includes the ‘Rapture’, the two Returns of Christ, the restoration of the Temple, the restoration of Animal Sacrifices, the separation of Jew and Gentile in the Millennium, and the restoration of Circumcision. Do you consider this new?

My Hub ‘The Last Days: The Ascension of Christ (In Like Manner)’ will explain my understanding of Acts 1:10-11.

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Ascens...


Elijah7 profile image

Elijah7 4 years ago from Israel - England - Hong Kong - Hawaii - Paradise

Thanks for your reply - enjoy this dialogue immensely...

(Do seem to be having some tech bugs. WILL KEEP a record of comments - thanks for the suggestion).

For ME this doctrine IS "new".

Why?

Because ALL SECOND COMING Prophecies CLEARLY Point to an Era whereby A MULTITUDE Of Miraculous Events, WITH JESUS ON EARTH for a Considerable Time period, have ALREADY HAPPENED, After The Book Of Revlation was COMPLETED.

Additionally, Nothing EVEN REMOTELY RESEMBLING The Actual Second Coming Of our Lord EXISTS ANYWHERE In History AFTER AD 33.5.

Saul was Converted By A Heavenly Appearance.

St John Witnessed The Lord "In The Spirit".

The Two Angels with The Galileans Watched As THE PHYSICAL JESUS Ascended, Replete with ALL HIS UNBROKEN BONES.

The Secret of The Ages brother, RESTS SOLELY IN THE BONES OF JESUS CHRIST ALIVE - Amen †

Where are They TODAY ???

HAD He DESCENDED BACK DOWN to this earth, SINCE His AD 33.5 Ascension, can you just imagine what WOULD HAVE ENSUED thereafter ???????

Despite the various "theories" of well meaning commentators in these "Very End Times", NOTHING In Recorded History, between AD 33.5 and AD 2012, even remotely evidences The Lord JESUS Himself Having Stepped Holy Foot BACK on THIS planet ANYWHERE !!!

After ALL, He WOULD Be Appearing not just for His Church, BUT ALSO For the errant Hebrew peoples who (mistakenly) are STILL LOOKING For His FIRST Advent.

Anyhow brother, WHEN i Meet a "Man" who is CLEARLY and Proveably, OVER 2012 years old, REPLETE with Certain Tell-Tale Scars in His Hands, Feet, and even Pin Prick Scars In His Head and possibly even His Back, LOOKING JUST LIKE The Descriptions In Daniel and Revelation (Like Father Like Son), if at all possible i WILL try and let you know - Selah †

Until then, i can ONLY Leave you to Ponder These Holy Verses, below AGAIN & AGAIN, followed by a Fitting Theme Tune for your Worship Time :-

† Isaiah 49 : 16 †

"Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me."

AND FOR THE SECOND TIME AROUND :-

† Zechariah 13 : 6 †

"And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends."

* * * * * * *

† Matthew 25 : 31 - 33 †

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

† Hebrews 9 : 28 †

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

† 2 Thessalonians 1 : 7 - 10 †

"And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."

† Revelation 20 : 4 - 6 †

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

† Revelation 20 : 7 - 9 †

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Music/RendThehe...


Jerami profile image

Jerami 4 years ago from Houston tx

Elizah 7 wrote

Because ALL SECOND COMING Prophecies CLEARLY Point to an Era whereby A MULTITUDE Of Miraculous Events, WITH JESUS ON EARTH for a Considerable Time period, have ALREADY HAPPENED, After The Book Of Revlation was COMPLETED.

=======

ME

Where does scriptural prophesy say that?

According to scripture what is the second coming supposed to look like. Like a Thief in the night?

A thief in the night usually comes in secretly, gets what he wants and is gone before anyone wakes up the next morning.

==============

Elijah said The Lord JESUS Himself Having Stepped Holy Foot BACK on THIS planet ANYWHERE

Revelation 20 : 4 - 6 †

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

ME

Go back and read what you just wrote.

John saw those that didn’t take the mark of the beast. .. which means that the Beast (C13) was in power before the first resurrection. The thousand years that Satan is in the bottomless pit begins right here. Jesus and all of those dead people are seen in heaven; Not on Earth.

And when the 1000 years are finished the sixth bowl is poured out and the dragon, the Beast and False prophet are seen in the dried up river bed.; And three evil spirits come out of their mouths which go out and gathers together all the kings of the earth to that last great day of the lord.

Forty two in prophesy is a greater period of time that 1000 years here on earth.

Without a chronological timeframe to consider; we can make it sounds like anything we want it to sound like. Without a timeframe, prophesy is of no value.


Elijah7 profile image

Elijah7 4 years ago from Israel - England - Hong Kong - Hawaii - Paradise

Jerami - searchinsany - The false doctrine of NO satan (in the Pit in the Past) AND that The Lord has ALREADY RETURNED for The Second Time, IS ABSOLUTE HERESY !!!

You HAVE been Admonished TWICE over this, and probably by many other Christians ALSO :-

† Titus 3 : 9 - 11 †

"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."

"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."


Jerami profile image

Jerami 4 years ago from Houston tx

Elijah7 I don't know that we should debate this on someone else’s hub ? But, here is one last rebuttal.

according to this definition of Heresy, " an opinion held in opposition to that of authority or orthodoxy".

Whose authority am I in opposition with? Not Gods I assure you!

Maybe My views are in opposition to “The Churches authority”? Revelations says that it should be this way.

It can be said that everyone’s opinions are heresy according to someone else’s church.

Some churches consider it to be heresy to play a piano in church.

Are you aware that the church stood in opposition to the bible being made available to the common people. That there were several earlier translations published almost a century before the KJV. Are you aware that Tyndale (first translator) was killed for publishing his version, and later dug up to be burned at the steak to set an example for such heresy.

Tyndale, Wycliffe, and Martin Luther were accused by the church for heresy.

That King James gave the translators instructions intended to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology structure that conformed to the Church of England?

So, in conclusion, some might consider it a compliment to be called a Heretic

An evangelist goes out into the world searching for that which needs correction.

A Heretic searches within its own organization for that which needs correction.


Elijah7 profile image

Elijah7 4 years ago from Israel - England - Hong Kong - Hawaii - Paradise

The Point STANDS, regarding the Future Second Coming Of JESUS and the OBVIOUS and sad painful FACT that, in living memory for most ALL people who are rational AND Christian, PLUS, those who study 20th Century history, The Tempter (AKA you know "IT") STILL prowls the AIR.

Cases to Point : ALL false religions; cults; serial killers; rapists; paedophiles; war mongering dictators; communists; haters of Christians (antichrists) & haters of Jews & haters of people; murderers; career liars & thieves; witches; satanists; HOW BIG IS THIS LIST ???

Once such an entire List is fully compiled, we have "stand alone" EVIDENCE of the unabated (even exponentially INCREASING) darkness career of the Old Serpent, The Dragon, satan.

The FOUL fruit of this Arch-fallen-angel has littered, and CONTINUES to litter the corridors of earth history from 4000 BC until this VERY MOMENT.

Therefore, in Terms of Holy Church Doctrine, to wilfully teach or otherwise promulgate that The Tempter no longer exists in the AIR or anywhere, (except The Bottomless Pit), is not only heretical and false, BUT is also another teaching from satan ITSELF !!!!!!

As well documented by many Christian prophets and Evangelists, and even ordinary everyday Christian souls, one of satan's greatest strokes of evil genius is to "convince" people IT does NOT exist !!!!!!

One day, (very soon indeed, "we" Hope & Pray) this WILL be True.

NOT today (May 7th AD 2012 HK time) however.

† 2 Thessalonians 2 : 5 - 12 †

"Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

WHOLE CHAPTER IN CONTEXT HERE :

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Th...

http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Music/Father-Of...


Elijah7 profile image

Elijah7 4 years ago from Israel - England - Hong Kong - Hawaii - Paradise

Re : "Although John the Baptist was not Elijah in person, he was the fulfillment of the prophecy; he was ‘...the voice...' "

JESUS Says John WAS THE Elijah The Prophet (Elias), BUT the Jews KNEW HIM NOT.

In Like manner they did NOT Know that JESUS Is The Messiah.

The Lord Was Crucified AS Written †

Elias was beheaded.

Elias did NOT therefore Witness The Crucifixion, Resurrection and Ascension of The Lord, with his physical eyes.

JESUS Will Return For THE SECOND GLORIOUS TIME - Amen (This did NOT happen in AD 70 - that's a wholly divisive false doctrine).

Likewise Elias WILL Return in the SAME MANNER that he Came as John - BORN OF A WOMAN.

The Spirit Of Elijah IS The Holy Spirit.

After Elijah went up in the Whirlwind some 950 years had Transpired before he was Put in the womb of Elisabeth.

This is Indeed a Mystery...

YET, How did Christ Appear in The Virgin Womb of Blessed Mary ?

What happened to the bones of Elijah ?

Since Elijah was "NOT Saved" in the Traditional Sense of "Saved",

according to Mark 16 : 15 -16, i Venture to Say that Elijah was "Translated" into Paradise, much like JESUS Went into Paradise when He Left His Body On The Cross.

JESUS Took His Body BACK At The Resurrection.

The First Born From The Dead.

Prior to His Virgin Birth, He was in The Bosom Of The God The Father.

God IS a Spirit.

JEHOVAH Walked and Talked In The Garden, AND Made clothes of skins for Adam and Eve.

JESUS, In His Glorified Physical Body, Ascended BACK To Heaven To Sit At The Right Hand Of JEHOVAH - Amen

"Sit Thou At My Right hand Until I Make Thine enemies Thy Footstool"

Perhaps, For The First Time, JEHOVAH Actually Sees His Son In The Same Form AS The LORD God.

How else could JESUS Leave Heaven and Be Born of The Virgin woman ?

Believing that JESUS Came Forth Of The Father LITERALLY, The Spoken Word OF God, The Offspring Of Abba; and By This Word The Unverse Was (and IS) Created, The Messiah First Appeared In The physical realm in AD 0.

God Is The Father of spirits.

There is ONLY one Eliah.

This WAS John, partially Fulfilling Malachi 4 : 5-6.

YET, The Lord JESUS Comes Again At The End Of This Age, For The Start Of The Glorious Millennium.

Thereby Elijah (John-Elias) Precedes This Event - Amen & Amen

Hallo !!!

† Acts 3 : 20 - 21 †

"And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

† Matthew 17 : 11 †

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things."

http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Music/DaysOfEli...


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

Elijah7

There is nothing more I can add to what I have already written in my Hubs and comments. May I respectfully suggest, if you wish to continue discussing these topics you should consider HubPages other facilities, such as opening a forum or writing your own Hubs.


Elijah7 profile image

Elijah7 4 years ago from Israel - England - Hong Kong - Hawaii - Paradise

Hoping you will change your mind and re-evaluate several things you have written to date in your hub pages.

Thanks for the suggestion. Duly noted with Observations.

Mizpah and Maranatha - ONLY In The Living Lord JESUS Who has YET To Return For The Second Glorious Physical Coming - Amen & Amen

Love and Hope..... E †

† Titus 3 : 8 †

"This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men."


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

Elijah7

What I have written is after years of studying the Scriptures and serious deliberation.


Elijah7 profile image

Elijah7 4 years ago from Israel - England - Hong Kong - Hawaii - Paradise

Likewise, together with "The Gift Of Prophecy" appearing at a very early age - then fully Confirmed in September AD 1974 until the EXACT PRESENT TIME NOW, Sole Glory For JESUS, (not for me) - Amen †

Please do share your own prophetic Testimony in support of The Authority by which the serious deliberations in The Holy Scriptures haven given birth to your writings. SERIOUSLY (i am NOT being sarcastic) - would be very interested in reading the details - Thanks...

† 1 Corinthians 12 : 7 - 11 †

"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

† Revelation 19 : 10 †

"And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Brother - did you listen to this New Worship Song below ?

http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Music/DaysOfEli...


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

John prophesized the end in Matt 3:10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Let us break it down. The "Ax" is Rome that was already at the "root" which is Jerusalem when John said this. The "trees" are the Jews as found in Isaiah 60:21. The "fire" is God's wrath on Judah. I agree with this hub, and it just happens that I read Matt 11:1-13 this morning based on this topic. Btw, The disciples did not ask in Matt 24:3 when the end of the world will be. They asked when the end of that age will be and like. The end of the age of the old covenant.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

SwordofManticorE

Your comment is a source of encouragement, thank you.


Diligent1 4 years ago

Consider all Christians to be students in a school.

Consider Christ to be a teacher in this school.

Consider the Bible to be the textbook taught in this school.

Consider that this textbook has many chapters. Several chapters are devoted to prophecies.

Consider, as an example, that in one of the chapters devoted to prophecies you come across the following lesson in Luke 3:

2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the desert. 3 He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 4 As is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet:

“A voice of one calling in the desert,

‘Prepare the way for the Lord,

make straight paths for him.

5 Every valley shall be filled in,

every mountain and hill made low.

The crooked roads shall become straight,

the rough ways smooth.

6 And all mankind will see God’s salvation.’”

In this lesson the textbook introduces the students to such words as “desert”, “prepare”, “way”, “paths”, “straight”, “valley”, “filled in”, “mountain”, “hill”, “crooked”. “roads”, “straight”, “rough”, “ways”, “smooth”, “all”, “see” and “God’s salvation”. The teacher asks the students to think about the meaning of these words and phrases in the light of their fulfillment by John the Baptist. He asks the students to include these words and their meanings in a Dictionary of Prophetic Words that they should utilize when the time for the final test comes.

The chapters on prophecies introduce the students to many other lessons on fulfilled prophecies.

Years go by and the students study the lessons in the Bible especially the ones covering the fulfilled prophecies. The diligent ones keep developing the Dictionary of Prophetic Words and include new words based on the lessons learned. Others fail to do so and go on studying without developing the Dictionary.

Finally the time for the final test arrives.

The students are happy to know that the teacher is not going to test them beyond what he has taught them! They know that the TEACHER IS JUST.

The questions on the test are about “prophecies not yet fulfilled”!

The test is open-book and the students are allowed to use their cheat sheet namely the Dictionary of Prophetic Words.

The diligent ones use the Dictionary of Prophetic Words and ace the test. Not for a moment they have to resort to guesswork!

Others who had not prepared the dictionary fail the test miserably and no two arrive at the same answer as they have to resort to guesswork. Some even complain that the teacher had given them a test too hard to take which he had not prepared them for!

The teacher again reminds the students that HE IS JUST and he would never ask them to take a test for which he had not prepared them. He invites the ones who had failed the test to go back to the lessons in the book but this time to make sure to compile the Dictionary of Prophetic Words.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

Hi Diligent1

Thank you for your comment.

My apologies for the delay in responding, my email server has been down for a few days.

This is an interesting comment, however, for the benefit of my visitors and to avoid any misunderstanding, would you mind being a little more specific about its significance to this Hub?


Diligent1 4 years ago

Hi searchinsany .

Thank you for your question. The significance is the people love to go tangent on their own and define words and phrases in the Bible according to their own understanding of the Word of God. Consider that many Jewish people awaiting the coming of the Messiah actually expected that the ACTUAL MOUNTAINS be flattened (citing he verses above). If the Jewish people had understood the ASCENT of Elijah and grasped the significance of the words in the Old Testament accordingly, they would not have expected a physical return of him and argued with John the Baptish about it.

I believe this is how my comments are related to the topic here.

In the same manner, note that the majority of the people nowadays expect the Lord to return in the actual physical clouds in the sky all the while ignorant of how the term clouds had been used previously in the prophetic language!

If you need more explanation, kindly let me know.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

Hi Diligent1

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to expand on the subject.

I wrote about the cloud of the Lord in my Hub ‘The Ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ: In Like Manner’, should any visitors be interested.

I am curious to know your view on the ascent of Elijah, whether here or my other Hub on Elijah, ‘Was Elijah the Prophet Really ‘Raptured’ to Heaven?’


Diligent1 4 years ago

Hello searchinsany,

My faith in God is not dependent upon extraordinary stories. Pondering upon the beauty of a flower, how it was created and the immense know-how that went into creating it is sufficient for me to believe in an incredible creator with an infinite amount of knowledge. I do not need to believe in incredible stories in order to have faith in God. Every moment of my life bears testimony to a great and loving creator. The God that I believe in wants me to believe in him with an open eye and appreciate him for the greatness that he has. I do not believe that he wants me to believe in him either out of fear or out of ignorance!

Having said this and going back to your question on Elijah, when I first came across the passage in the Bible, I was not able to conceive that a man actually went to the physical heaven. There is no need for God to impose such an event on me where reasoning fails. He is already showing me his proofs every single day of my life. A look at the stars at night should be sufficient for any unbiased observer to declare his belief in an almighty creator. And this almighty and loving creator has surely also left his guidance in the Book itself. So all I had to do was look for the meaning of "ascent" and "heaven". I had to find out from the the Bible itself how these two words are defined. Having found the definition of these two words elsewhere in the Bible itself , I came to realize the significance of the ascent of Elijah to heaven. It was indeed not a physical event. It has a much deeper spiritual significance.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

Hi Diligent1

Very interesting, thank you for your contribution to my Hub.


joe Lynch 4 years ago

Does Scripture assure us that Israel + Europe MUST sign the 7 year peace treaty before 2020. I derived this with simple calculations, using the end of the six-day-war as the starting date for our final generation,

I discovered this by using the verse (Mat 24 :34) “this generation shall not pass,(die)” Starting with 1967.5, (when Israel took control of Jerusalem), and then adding 51.6, (generation = calculated from 14+14+14 of Mat 1:17) that totaled 2019.1. I believe that this date-door-deadline is for the tribulation to begin, which is the 7 year peace treaty between Europe and Israel.

Here are all the calculations and Scriptural meaning in the webpage:

http://doorschristmustpassthrough.yolasite.com/

this is not my setting dates for the tribulation to begin

this is the Father setting a date-door-deadline for it

when He Said `this generation shall not pass-`


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

joe Lynch

Thank you for your comment.

I have a very different understanding of Matthew 24:34, and wrote a Hub on the subject which may be of interest to you.

The Hub is entitled 'Jesus Said 'This' Generation Shall Not Pass!'

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Generation...


Jason Carroll 4 years ago

Watch. Be faithful to God. The end times come soon. Do not bother so much with these date settings and approximations. Rather follow the Great Commission that The Lord hath told us. Warn of Hell. Tell of the Savior. Preach the Gospel.

I am a simple person. I write my name to show because I am honored to be counted for Jesus. Jesus IS GOD. I have seen minor future events. I know Jesus is Real. I know Jesus is God. I know our purpose here is the Great Commission. Let your focus be on such.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

Jason Carroll

Thank you for your comment, this is the first time I have been accused of date setting, I thought that term applied to those who constantly set false dates for the second coming and the end of the world. I can't figure how you reached the conclusion that I do that in this Hub.

I agree entirely that we should preach the gospel. However we are also encouraged to study and teach the Scriptures.

Paul told Timothy to study the Word:

2Ti 2:15 KJV Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Jesus told the disciples to teach all nations:

Mat 28:19-20 KJV Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Question All 3 years ago

My question to you is that if we believe Jesus would have 2 advents wouldn’t it be natural to expect that both times it would be preceded by a messenger that would “prepare the way”?

Mal 4:5-6 “See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers;

or else I will come and strike the land with a curse.”

The or else in Mal 4:6 is often interpreted as predicting a dual fulfillment of the prophecy. God knows the future. It does not make sense for God to say that in the future something good or something very bad will happen. I could prophesy that.

Mat 17:10-11 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?” Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things.”

From this passage the first thing I would note is that Jesus acknowledges the truth of a common understanding of the Jews back then. They thought that Elijah would come before the Messiah.

The second thing to note is that Jesus indicates a future fulfillment of the prophecy when he says that Elijah will restore all things.

Mat 17:12 “But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”

In this passage Jesus says that the Malachi prophesy is currently being fulfilled. It implies a dual fulfillment of the prophesy.

The Malachi prophesy predicts one of two possible results after Elijah’s coming. Since Jesus says that Elijah[John the Baptist] was not recognized, I say that John the Baptist was not successful in turning the Jews back to the Lord. Therefore I see the first fulfillment of the Malachi prophesy ending with the result “I will come and strike the land with a curse.” Jesus confirms this in Luke 19 saying that Jerusalem will be destroyed because they did not recognize him.

Luke 19:41-44 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

I see that it was the curse of Malachi fulfilled in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem.

I look forward to the day when Elijah comes again, preparing the way for the second advent of our Christ. For this time Elijah will be successful in bringing the Jewish people to Jesus.

Mat 23:39 [Jesus said] “For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

This age will then come to an end when all the saved souls have been found.

Rom 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 3 years ago from UK Author

Question All

Thank you for reading my Hub and welcome to HubPages, I look forward to reading your Hubs.

In answer to your question, I don’t agree that two advents would naturally mean both would be preceded by a messenger, surely that which is 'scriptural' is more important than that which seems 'natural'.

In my opinion, your premise is based on there being a prolonged gap between these events; now 2000 years and counting. All the New Testament writers mentioned the imminent return of Christ, which would occur during the lifetime of their generation; therefore only one messenger was necessary. John the Baptist prepared the way for the Messiah.

Malachi 4:5-6, Malachi prophesied that the Lord would send Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord and that is exactly happened during the lifetime of Jesus’ generation.

Quote ‘The or else in Mal 4:6 is often interpreted as predicting a dual fulfillment of the prophecy.’ I am interested to know who often interpreted this as dual fulfilment.

Matthew 17:10-11: What is your understanding of ‘Elijah will restore all things’? Do you really believe John failed? Even although Jesus said ‘there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist’!

Can you explain how Matthew 17:12 implies a double fulfilment? In my opinion, the Jews didn't recognise ‘Elijah’ because they were looking for his physical and literal return. However many responded to the preaching of John and the remnant was restored and saved prior the pending destruction of the nation in AD 70.


thebesttrees 3 years ago

Searchinsany and Question All,

Now that we are talking about Malachi 4, I quote here the four verses of 2,3, 5 & 6

2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

would like to hear your comments on

1. Who is the sun of righteousness in verse 2 and why??

2. Who are the "ye" in verse 3 and why?

3. What is meant by "turning" in verse 6?

4. And the "curse" in verse 6?


Question All 3 years ago

I thought I was clear in my comments on Mat 17:10 to 12 where a dual fulfillment is implied. Let me try to elaborate.

Mat 11:11 Jesus says, “Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist.” Note this indicates nothing of the future. At one time Moses was said to be the greatest prophet.

Mat 14 John the Baptist is beheaded.

Mat 17 The transfiguration of Jesus occurs, John the Baptist is dead at this time and Moses and Elijah appear.

Mat 17: 11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things.” Note “will restore all things” is the future tense. This is a future event.

Mat 17:12 “But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” Note “has already come” is the past tense. This is a past event.

Is it not obvious that there is a dual fulfillment of Elijah coming?

About your question on the John the Baptist, did he fail. Jesus said yes he did fail. He will come again and be successful next time. If all things were restored, we would be living in a perfect world now. Since when did being a great prophet mean that they were successful in turning the hearts of the people back to God? There were many Old Testament prophets that were not very successful and even killed.

We could endlessly debate how “many” Jews responded to John the Baptist and Jesus. Obviously some did, but more did not, especially the religious leaders. The verses in Luke 19 that I quoted, that you did not respond to clearly say that the city of Jerusalem was to be destroyed because they largely rejected Jesus. This is the fulfillment of the curse in the Malachi prophecy in 70 AD. Romans 11, that you ignore also speaks at length of the rejection of Jesus by the Jews for a time thereby allowing the Gentiles to receive the gospel.

I agree that many of the first generation brothers in Christ did think that Jesus would come in their lifetime as clearly stated in John 21:22-23. John very clearly says this is rumor not prophecy. I know you have other hubs on this subject but I do not want to get into that huge debate here.


thebesttrees 3 years ago

Question All,

That is how I understand Matthew 17:11 too. It clearly points to a future prophecy. Elijah will come a second time JUST LIKE he did come the first time. So in other words look for someone who is not called Elijah but comes in his spirit and power. Moreover, many of the prophecies in Malachi 4 were not fulfilled at the time of John and Christ. Incidentally the word "Elijah" means "my God is Jehovah" or "Yah(u) is God".


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 3 years ago from UK Author

Question All

In your first comment you asked me a specific question and I gave you a detailed answer.

Q: ‘My question to you is that if we believe Jesus would have 2 advents wouldn’t it be natural to expect that both times it would be preceded by a messenger that would “prepare the way”?

A: ‘In answer to your question, I don’t agree that two advents would naturally mean both would be preceded by a messenger, surely that which is 'scriptural' is more important than that which seems 'natural'.

In my opinion, your premise is based on there being a prolonged gap between these events; now 2000 years and counting. All the New Testament writers mentioned the imminent return of Christ, which would occur during the lifetime of their generation; therefore only one messenger was necessary. John the Baptist prepared the way for the Messiah.’

I also asked what your understanding is of ‘Elijah will restore all things’. What is meant by 'all things'?

What is your response?

We can then consider each of your other points.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 3 years ago from UK Author

thebesttrees

Welcome and thank you for your contribution. I will attempt to answer the points you raise about Malachi, perhaps some answers will be apparent during my discussion with Question All.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 3 years ago from UK Author

Thebesttrees

I have summarised my view of Malachi 4 in answer to your recent question.

Malachi was the last of the Old Testament prophets; he warned of the great and the dreadful day of the Lord that would come upon Old Covenant Israel because of their constant disregard for the Covenant. The day of judgement was to be preceded by ‘Elijah’ the forerunner to the Messiah. Jesus said Malachi’s prophecy was fulfilled by John the Baptist who came in the ‘spirit and power’ of Elijah, He made no mention of 'dual fulfilment' of this prophecy.

Malachi 4:1

Mal 4:1 KJV For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

‘that it shall leave them neither root nor branch’ The result of the judgement would be the total destruction and desolation of Old Covenant Israel.

Mat 3:10 KJV And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

‘And now the axe is laid unto the root of the trees’ John the Baptist alluded to Malachi 4:1 when he warned the Pharisees and Sadducees of the pending fiery judgement.

Malachi 4:2

Mal 4:2 KJV But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Rev 22:16 KJV I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

‘the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings’ This is an epithet of the Lord Jesus Christ, similar to ‘the bright and morning star’…Revelation 22:16. These titles were used to describe the attributes of Christ. John and Paul metaphorically described Jesus as the light of the world, and the light that shines in darkness…John 8:12; Ephesians 5:8.

Malachi 4:3

Mal 4:3 KJV And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

2Sa 22:43 KJV Then did I beat them as small as the dust of the earth, I did stamp them as the mire of the street, and did spread them abroad.

After the judgement of the wicked on the great and dreadful day of the Lord in AD 70, the righteous remnant was considered victorious over its enemies; David used similar language in 2 Samuel 22 while rejoicing in God’s deliverance from his enemies.

Malachi 4:4

Mal 4:4 KJV Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

Deu 29:21 KJV And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

Malachi exhorted Old Covenant Israel to return to the Covenant that the nation might enjoy blessing rather than curse…Matthew 25:41.

Malachi 4:5

Mal 4:5 KJV Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Mat 17:11-12 KJV And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Most scholars insist a doctrine cannot be built on one verse of Scripture. The suggestion that Matthew 17:11 is confirmation that Malachi’s prophecy has future 'dual fulfilment' is refuted by Matthew 17:12!

Malachi 4:6

Mal 4:6 KJV And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Luk 1:15-17 KJV For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

The angel quoted from Malachi 4:6 and explained its meaning to Zacharias, John’s commission was to preach repentance and restoration, thereby making the remnant ready for the pending great and dreadful day of the Lord.

In my opinion, Dispensationalism is duty bound to use the ‘dual fulfilment’ ploy to account for the 2000 years gap in its futuristic interpretation of the ‘end times’, Malachi’s prophecy is a typical example.

Sadly, fulfilment of prophecy is often reduced to insignificance by the inventiveness of 'dual fulfilment'. Instead of glorifying God and encouraging believers, the only beneficiaries of the postponement theory are those who seek to ridicule the Word of God.


Diligent1 2 years ago

I would like to come back and study your blog but these last three posts are really disappointing and a deviation from a studious approach to the Scriptures!


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Diligent1

Thank you for your comment.

I would appreciate if you could explain from the Scriptures why you think my comments are disappointing and a deviation from the Scriptures?


Diligent1 2 years ago

searchinsany, have you changed your name? The comments that I was referring to have disappeared. They were left by someone named "DAVID the KING" or something like that.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Diligent1

My name is still Searchinsany. Thank you for clearing up that misunderstanding.

I have received comments recently which I have not approved, because they were not relevant to the content of this Hub.


Abel 2 years ago

Elijah's back and Jesus is on His way! Don't forget Revelations 11, 1260 days! This is for this generation. Moses too! They will step on the scene this year. This spiritual awaking will shock you! It is not yet time. I'm busting at the seams to talk about this, but at the same time lacking awareness!! But no worries Jesus has got this!! Stay turned, it's about to get interesting!


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Abel

Thank you for your comment.


Abel 2 years ago

Your welcome, do you want to discuss what Jesus has made me aware of?


Abel 2 years ago

Before the great (Jesus) and dreadfull day of the LORD (Judgment Day) This refers to two different returns. You must think of Revelations 11.


Diligent1 2 years ago

Dear Abel, I am happy for your excitement. Just one food for thought: PROPHECY IS UNDERSTOOD FULLY WHEN IT IS FULFILLED. The prophet is the one who decides when and how and where to fulfill it. He will fulfill it however way he wishes fit and it will make sense. This theme has been fully explicated and demonstrated in the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus and by the prophets prior to him. The vital lessons are there for all to see and have been explained well by this wonderful blog. As for the 1260 days prophecy you have mentioned, it is covered elsewhere(s) in the Bible also. I would love to see your opinion on it and may God bless you.


Abel 2 years ago

Adam, the first humane of record, was our Creator in the flesh. Just as was Jesus before Jesus was Jesus. So Cain and Abel both got to learn directly from our Creator. Now we all know that Cain killed Abel, Cain was exiled from the Lords presents. Which brought about Seth. I am Abel, Cain became the price of darkness, Seth became Moses. Abel then became Enoch, Enoch became Noah, Noah became Elijah, Elijah became John the Baptist, John became me. Moses and I have been friends for 30 plus years, not realizing the above info until about 3.5 years ago. Now that the Lord has made us aware of the above info, He has also shown us who satan is. Satan is not an individual he is a generationally schooled train of demonic thoughts. Greed! Now that satan has acquired the money = power of the planet Earth. He “satan” is convinced he can do this without GOD, he cannot, he is delusional. See satan realizes that he is a baby god, just as you are, and just as I am. We cannot reach spiritual maturity from a single perspective, you need the assistants of your Creator to be able to reach the multiple perspective stage of god hood. Satan has multiple perspective in the respect that all of his demonic souls repot to him. But he can’t see through their eye’s, as can Jesus see through our eye’s.

You and I work with a single perspective of all of our awareness during each life we experience. That means during our god schooling we experience many lives, but always a single perspective. The aliens are our cousins, Jesus nephews, Jesus brothers children. Aliens are more advanced in their god schooling than we are, but still only a single perspective. When you are in the presents of an alien, they can see the intent of your heart and soul. That ability gives them a taste of multiple perspective stage but not a full dose. Jesus is one of the youngest God’s in the Milky Way, the Milky Way is God the Fathers dominion, Earth is Jesus dominion, stars with inhabitable planets in the Milky Way our Jesus Brothers and sisters dominions.

Recap:

You and I single perspective stage. God infancy

Aliens single perspective with a taste of multiple perspective. God preschool.

Jesus multiple perspective stage. God high school. Every solar system has a Jesus.

God the Father multiple perspective squared stage. God college PHD style. Each galaxy has a God the Father.

The Holy Spirit multiple perspective cubed stage. The overseer of all GOD’s, each universe has a Holy Spirit. Trillions of universes.

Each time a graduating class is ready to move forward, here’s how it happens.

You and I become a Jesus, each with his own solar system. Multiple perspective stage. Each of us with a trillion or better souls = perspectives. Jesus stage is God initiation.

Our Father Jesus becomes our GOD the Father, He will reign over His new galaxy, with a trillion solar systems for our brothers and sisters.

Our GOD the Father now becomes the Holy Spirit reigning over the new universe that HE created with the help of our Holy Spirit.

What we considered our Holy Spirit as we are in the single perspective stage, now graduates to the first stage of Matter Makers. Everything prior to this stage is only a matter manipulator.

This is all just a game of chess, God against satan. Do you want to hear more?


Abel 2 years ago

@Diligent1

And God bless you my brother!


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Abel

That is sufficient, thanks.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Diligent1

Thank for your contribution.


Abel 2 years ago

@Searchinsany, I commend you on building this site to discuss Elijah and his coming before the second coming of Christ. As John I was not aware of whom I truly was, because the info and a way to acquire info was limited. Can I give you an update at where we stand in Revelation 11? I will not post anymore info without your approval. Thanks in advance and God Bless you!


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Abel

The purpose of the comments segment is to allow visitors to give their opinion on the Hub.

You are welcome to do that providing it is relevant.


Abel 2 years ago

Tribulation started Jan 28, 2011. We are now in the 42 month. Elijah and Moses will hit the stage this month 1260 then start looking for Jesus. Remember Elijah and Moses are single perspective bothers of yours needing guidance from our creator Jesus Christ and God the Father. The only advantage they have over their brothers is spiritual awareness, I don't have an instruction manual.


Abel 2 years ago

Alex,

You have always told me to keep it relevant, Elijah. But what needs to be told is not about Elijah, it is about Jesus. Can I continue?


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Abel

The topic of this Hub is the return of Elijah, and you have expressed your view that he will 'hit the stage' this month, let's wait and see.


Abel 2 years ago

Anxiously


Abel 2 years ago

Looks like the 42 month must be completed first, that happens today!


Pedro Morales profile image

Pedro Morales 2 years ago

something that needs to be covered when dealing with this topic is John the Baptist's denial of being Elijah. According to the Gospel of Luke, Zechariah himself understood that his son was coming with the power and spirit of Elijah. Also JB understood himself to be the forerunner to the coming Lord. How come he then denies his prescribed role as Elijah? In front of the people of that time his denial created a difficult situation for Jesus since Jesus affirmed that John fulfilled the prophecy of Malachi that Elijah would return prior to the coming of the Lord. One of the other is telling the truth. For us today, obviously, Jesus did. But for the people of that time, who would they consider more believable? John had more popularity than Jesus so...


Question All 2 years ago

Pedro,

Look at my comments from 19 months ago.

A dual fulfillment will satisfy your questions.

Also note that Jesus himself rarely said he was the Son of God. When John the Baptists asked Jesus who he was, Jesus gave a description of his actions rather than saying he was the Messiah.

It is better and more credible for actions to speak louder than words. Note that throughout history many have claimed to be the Messiah and scripture says more will continue that claim.


Pedro Morales profile image

Pedro Morales 2 years ago

I dont see how the 'dual fulfillment' satisfy my question.

In your hub you are saying that JB denied being Elijah because he was not the same as the Tishbite prophet.

However, we are forgetting that Jesus did say JB was indeed Elijah and Jesus did not find it necessary to explain that it was only in power and spirit. Jesus saw no need to correct anyone's idea that JB could be the same prophetwho ascended to heaven in a chariot of fire. So then why should JB see that need? There is no textual basis to affirm that JB was rejecting the idea that somehow he was the same physical person who went to the Mountain to defeat the 400 prophets of Baal.

The only that can be interpreted from the words of JB is that he is deying being the same person Jesus had affirmed that he was: Elijah revividus, or Elijah returned, the fulfillment of the prophecy in Malachi.

Thus JB, as you mention in your hub could not complete his original mission, and as you say in one comment: JB failed his mission.

His mission was to support Jesus; or as the Prologue to the Gospel of John expresses it: John was sent by God to give testimony to Jesus and to bring 'all' to Jesus. As such, if Jesus says that JB is Elijah that is what JB should have said.

Also I believe that Jesus did not answer directly to JB that he was the Messiah because Jesus felt offended by the question posed by JB.

John had been especially prepared to support Jesus and to lead the Israelites to come to recognize who Jesus was. John had also seen the holy spirit appear and reveal to him the messianic role and divine sonship of Jesus. Could Jesus improve in the testimony his own Father gave of him? If JB lost faith in the vision he had from God, could Jesus simply said: yes I am the Messiah? No, Jesus simply reminded JB of what he had been doing, as if JB did not know that also, because he found JB's question offensive, a question that showed an incredible lack of faith. Thus when Jesus gave his answer he concludes: and blessed is he who does not take offense at me.(Matt 11:6)


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Pedro Morales

Thank you for your comment.

Quote: 'something that needs to be covered when dealing with this topic is John the Baptist's denial of being Elijah.'

This Hub was written to allay the ambiguity surrounding the conflicting views on John the Baptist and his mission, and already covers that point.

Quote: 'One of the other is telling the truth.'

I explain why I believe both were telling the truth based on the Scriptures, which is the ultimate benchmark for Christians.

Personally, it is out of the question for a 'born again' Christian to contemplate that Jesus would lie.

'there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist' It is inconsistent to cast doubt on John's integrity, since Jesus provided him with an excellent character reference.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Question All

Thank you for your comment. Perhaps you might read the following Hubs, I would appreciate your comments.

Is Jesus God?

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Trinit...

Why Did Jesus Never Mention Double Fulfilment of Prophecy?

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Why-Did-Je...


Pedro Morales profile image

Pedro Morales 2 years ago

I will read them. just one observation. you are quoting only one part of the description that Jesus makes about John when you say 'there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist'. what does the entire verse says?

Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

And who is the least in the kingdom? The Gospel of Matthew has an answer for that.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:...

I agree that " it is out of the question for a 'born again' Christian to contemplate that Jesus would lie."

But my problem I find from a historical perspective is that the Israelites of Jesus' time were not born again Christian. I believe that any since there has been Christians not one would ever consider that Jesus would lie. Jesus is the Truth, the incarnated Word of God. My concern is with what could have happened from a realistic point of view, from a historical point of view in Israel, while Jesus is trying to lead the people to believe in him through his miracles and teachings about God and the kingdom. The expectation of the return of Elijah was a central one among the people as they awaited for the coming of the messiah. If no one appears as Elijah, it will be difficult for many people, especially the religious leaders, to believe that the messiah had arrived.

For that reason the disciples of Jesus were confronted with the question about Elijah during their ministries by the religious leaders. Right after the experience in the Mount of Transfiguration(Matthew 17:1-10, where the three major disciples saw and heard confirmation from heaven that Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus tells them not to tell anyone about it. Then the disciples ask Jesus “Then why do the scribes say that first Eli′jah must come?” The disciples, the three that Jesus chose to go to the Mountain with him, did not understand the importance of this question. Jesus did; and thus he answers and lets them know who is the person who came with the mission to fulfill the prophecy in Malachi.

But now, thinking on the people of that time who were not Christians, who were the Jewish religious leaders, and those who would listen to them (a big number of the Israelites) how would the answer given by Jesus appear since John had already told the people that he was not Elijah. It would appear for the majority of people as a lie, as an attempt by Jesus to use the fame of a person who could no longer answer for himself to support his own claim to be the Messiah. JB rejection of his role as the prophecied Elijah created a big problem for the prepared people of Israel to receive Jesus.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Pedro Morales

Quote: 'there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist'. what does the entire verse says?'

My statement is not taken out of context, it is supported by other Scriptures.

Luk 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Jesus proclaimed John was the greatest of the Old Testament prophets. In the remainder of the verse Jesus explained that the least significant person who enters the approaching Kingdom of God would be greater, because John was languishing in prison awaiting martyrdom, and unlike the remainder of his generation, he would not see the fulfillment of all the Law and the Prophets in AD 70.

1Pe 1:10 KJV  Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

John would not live to see the establishment of the Kingdom of God at the great and the terrible Day of the Lord in AD 70, Peter explained that the prophets longed to see and understand God's plan, but could not.

Quote: 'And who is the least in the kingdom? The Gospel of Matthew has an answer for that.'

Mat 5:19  KJV Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

  This Scripture you quoted is not relevant to Luke 7:28.

Joh 5:35 KJV He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

Again, Jesus described John in 'glowing' terms 'a burning and a shining light'. How can anyone contradict the Lord by suggesting John was a failure or a liar?

Quote: 'JB rejection of his role as the prophecied Elijah created a big problem for the prepared people of Israel to receive Jesus.'

2Co 3:14 KJV But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

John the Baptist fulfilled all that was required of him and was faithful to the end, to imply failure is a rejection of the teachings of Jesus.

God's great plan of redemption required the sinless sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. Prior to that event Jesus preach the Kingdom to the Jew first. The Jews, except for the remnant, were blind to the Messiah who was in their midst. By their rejection, Christ laid down His life for the salvation of both Jews and Gentles.

My Hubs may be of interest:

Did Jesus Really Fail to Keep His Promise of His Second Coming?

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/kingjesus

Did Jesus Teach Eternal Torment in Hell?

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Did-Jesus-...


Pedro Morales profile image

Pedro Morales 2 years ago

Quote:   This Scripture you quoted is not relevant to Luke 7:28.

really the scripture I quoted is the only textual basis to define who is the least in the kingdom of heaven; whatever else is said is simply doctrine of man, or as Jesus called it traditions of man, placed above the word of God.

And if you think Matthew 5:19 is not relevant to Luke 7:28 because it is in a different Gospel, then just look at the parallel verse in Matthew in Matthew 11:11   Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. They are quite close, aren't they? Why would the definition provided by Matthew about who is the least in the kingdom not be relevant even if it is from another Gospel? Only if one does not want to see that way; but the textual basis speaks loud and clear.

The truth is that Christian apologists do not want to look to the only verse in the New Testament and the Bible that defines who is the least in the kingdom using precisely the words "will be called least in the kingdom". What more relevant than that?

Jesus praised John the Baptist in the first part of the statement in Luke 7:28 (par. Matthew 11:11) Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

But this praise was based in the fact that John was born as the one chosen to testify to the Lord and bring all people to the Lord as the Prologue to the Gospel of John says in verses 1:6-8: There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. That all that first part of Luke 7:28 says. It is describing John in terms of his birth in comparison to other men, in that sense what distinguishes him is his mission. God gave him the mission wished by all the prophets. All the prophets pointed through a distance to the coming Messiah. John was going to be able to declare to the prepared chosen people who is the Messiah. John could have led the entire people of Israel to Jesus.

But what does the second part of Luke 7:28 and par verse in Matthew 11:11 mean. By the way if they are parallel verses whatever is relevant to shed meaning to one, should not be discarded without reason as irrelevant to the other. A good exegetical analysis requires that one looks into New Testament scripture to find what is precisely the meaning of "the least in the kingdom of heaven"; and I'm sure you know that. If nothing can be found then one can attempt to formulate what the author intended to mean by looking at whatever is as close as possible to the description the authors give, again in this case we are looking for a definition for "the least in the kindgom of heaven". Is there any other Bible verse that uses those exact words and proceed to explain what it means other than Mt 5:19. Then what reason, exegetical, logical, doctrinal could there be not to pay attention to what that verse says?

quote: In the remainder of the verse Jesus explained that the least significant person who enters the approaching Kingdom of God would be greater, because John was languishing in prison awaiting martyrdom, and unlike the remainder of his generation, he would not see the fulfillment of all the Law and the Prophets in AD 70.

Where did Jesus explains that John is the least in the kingdom because he was languishing in prison? That is not in the text. Please point to me where anything of that nature is in the text. If anything all we know about the last moment of John the Baptist death is that he lost faith in Jesus and sent his disciples to ask him is he was the one who was to come? How many saints have died from the times of earliest Christianity, from Stephen to modern day Christians suffering persecution in the Middle East and other countries, and have not weakened their faith in the last moment to doubt the messiaship of Jesus? Many, many.

No gospel gives a description of John dying accepting the messiaship of Jesus; nothing is given after the faithless question that John posed to Jesus.

I will discuss the other statements Jesus gives about John a bit later.

thanks so much for continuing to write back and suggesting your other hubs.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Pedro Morales

Quote: 'But what does the second part of Luke 7:28 and par verse in Matthew 11:11 mean.'

Luk 7:28 KJV For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Jesus proclaimed John was the greatest of the Old Testament prophets. The prophets did not understand their Messianic prophecies and longed to see fulfilment. In the remainder of the verse Jesus explained that the least significant person entering the coming Kingdom of God would be greater than John, by having the privilege of witnessing the fulfillment of all the Law and the Prophets. This happened in AD 70 when Jesus returned in judgement to fully establish the Kingdom and New Covenant Age.

Mat 5:19 KJV Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

'Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven'

The context is, the Scribes and Pharisees taught there were greater and lesser commandments, and to break a lesser commandment was 'permissible'. The religious leaders considered themselves to be the 'greatest' in Old Covenant Israel, however, Jesus condemned them for false teaching and misleading Old Covenant Israel. Jesus called them the 'least'!

Quote: 'John could have led the entire people of Israel to Jesus.'

Luk 1:16 KJV And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

The angel of the Lord said John would lead many, not the entire nation! In AD 70, the elect of God and remnant who had put their trust in Christ were saved from the impending judgement, fleeing to the mountains when the temple and Jerusalem were destroyed by the Romans.

Quote: 'Where did Jesus explains that John is the least in the kingdom because he was languishing in prison?'

You have misunderstood, That is not what I meant.

Quote: 'If anything all we know about the last moment of John the Baptist death is that he lost faith in Jesus and sent his disciples to ask him is he was the one who was to come?'

John's imprisonment may have caused him to seek assurance and encouragement, he was human, but that does not mean he lost his faith in God prior to being martyred.

Consider Elijah's discouragement:

Jas 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

James wrote that Elijah was of 'like passions as we are', he also had troubled times.

1Ki 19:4 KJV But he (Elijah) himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die; and said, It is enough; now, O LORD, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers.

Elijah was so discouraged he wanted to die! Had Elijah lost his faith in God ? Of course not, I am unaware of any accusations that Elijah lost his faith, to this day Elijah is held in high esteem.

Quote: 'nothing is given after the faithless question that John posed to Jesus.'

Quote: 'No gospel gives a description of John dying accepting the messiaship of Jesus; nothing is given after the faithless question that John posed to Jesus.'

There was no need.

Luk 7:26 KJV But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet. 27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

John's disciples asked the question, Jesus replied by quoting Messianic prophecy from Isaiah 35:5-6; 61:1. John would have been assured Jesus was the Messiah. After John's disciples left, Jesus did not criticise or condemn John, on the contrary, He continued by proclaiming John was much more than a prophet!

My question to you:

Why is it so important to condemn John the Baptist as a faithless failure?


Diligent1 2 years ago

Quick interjection here. What are some of the things that John the Baptist restored?

Mat 17:11

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.


Pedro Morales profile image

Pedro Morales 2 years ago

Dear Alexander,

quote: In the remainder of the verse Jesus explained that the least significant person entering the coming Kingdom of God would be greater than John, by having the privilege of witnessing the fulfillment of all the Law and the Prophets. This happened in AD 70 when Jesus returned in judgement to fully establish the Kingdom and New Covenant Age.

nothing of that nature appears anywhere explicitly stated in the Bible. And specially nothing of that nature appears where you say it does. You are interpreting based on dogma not on what the text contains. Dogmatic interpretation can be dangerous; they can be accepted simply because they become the traditional view of the meaning of a specific text. But traditions of men are dangerous when they do not allow for freedom for further research, specially for research for better tools for interpreting the 2,000 years texts or older that represent the books of the Bible. Jesus told the Jewish people of his time in Mark 7:7-8 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.' You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.

I simply believe that we need to have an open mind about the biblical interpretations that challenge our traditional ways of thinking. Jesus told the people to pray and ask God for answers; but many times we do not even when something comes our way that challenges our traditional understandings because it is more easy to just not bother.

When a famous Puerto Rican evangelist began his preaching he used to tell his listeners to bring their tv's to the church and they would then proceed to destroy them. That happened until he saw the power of buying or renting a channel or satellite and transmit evangelical shows. he remained opposed for some time to certain music genres because he considered them wrong, and most of the first singers of that genre used foul words and gestures. That was until some Christian youth removed all the foul words and gestures and placed Christian lyrics.

Those are simple things, but there are some traditional teachings which do not have solid biblical basis. they are mostly based on tradition and subsequent unquestioning faith. Rather people came who question them but first the Catholic Church with its violent means of controlling dissent during previous times, and later even the Protestant churches utilized some of these means to control things they could not understand, as the case of the Salem witch trials in colonial Massachusetts between February 1692 and May 1693.

You quoted from one part of chapter 19 of I Kings. But Elijah's question does not constitute lack of faith in the manner John showed it. Elijah was not questioning whether the voice that guided him was the True God of Israel, was he. He did not say, are you the true God, show me. He was so discouraged, yes. But not faithless he was talking directly to God and in a very humble manner saying how he a prophet that had managed to get rid of 400 false prophets, was no better than his father. How is that offensive to God, or represents lack of faith in God. But still his discouragement did not last long, and precisely what you say there was no need for in the case of John the Baptist, namely showing that John recovered his faith, is given in the case of Elijah. The rest of the chapter shows how Elijah followed God's direction and acted so powerfully even fasting for 40 days.

What Elijah said in no way is similar to what John said. John was wondering if Jesus was the Messiah. The very man God sent to give testimony to Jesus. The very man who saw the spirit descend, the sign God promised to him as marking the Messiah. John was not saying "Oh dear Lord Jesus, the Savior of humanking, I am not better than my fathers, I should not have been in prison and I should be right now serving and following you as your best disciple, I deserve to die?

No his question is very clear and succint.

Are you the one who is to come or shall we look for another?

That is lack of faith in Jesus and in God's word, and in the appearance of the Holy Spirit.

In the Gospel of John we see John beginning to fulfill his true mission, not just baptizing people on water but giving testimony to the Messiah, as the following verses themselves indicate:

29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, for he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him; but for this I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.” 32 And John bore witness, “I saw the Spirit descend as a dove from heaven, and it remained on him. 33 I myself did not know him; but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.”

verse 31 says: for this I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel. John came baptizing with water in order to reveal Jesus to Israel; not just to his disciples, but to Israel to all of Israel, or as many as possible. John should have continued giving testimonies to the people and specially to the religious leaders about the messiaship of Jesus.

Jesus could not stand alone claiming to be the Messiah, because based on Malachi's prophecy and expectations that had been developed about the coming of the Messiah and Elijah the prophet, Elijah had to come before the arrival of the Messiah. For that reason the scribes asked the disciples of Jesus where is Elijah if you are claiming that Jesus is the one that God sent to deliver Israel. Look at history not long after the resurrection a false messianic came whose name was Bar kochba and by gaining the support of a very important Rabi named Akiba he was seen as the true Messiah. Akiba worked as his 'Elijah'. I dont have the time to give you the details but please take the time and check it in the internet.

For Jesus to be accepted as the Messiah he needed an Elijahnic figure who would support him. Not everyone knew about the need for this, as for instance the disciples of Jesus. But that only shows that many of the disciples of Jesus did not know the scriptures very well. The expectation of Elijah was based on scripture and was one believed by those who knew of the prophecy in Malachi. John was meant to be, yes more than a prophet, as Jesus said he was, because he had the responsibility to fulfill the role of the return Elijah and give testimony that Jesus is the Messiah. But he did not do that.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Pedro Morales

Please explain Luke 7:28.


Pedro Morales profile image

Pedro Morales 2 years ago

If you go back to what I have written I have done so already. Luke 7:28 is a parallel verse to Matthew 11:11. I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he

Succinctly, in this verse Jesus talks about JB in a sentence consisting of two parts. In the first part Jesus simply describes JB in comparative terms to all other men in relation to birth. Of all the men born of women there is no one greater than JB. He is the greatest in comparison to all men, all; because he came to directly witness to who is the Son of God. All other prophets prior to JB could only point from the distance. But JB was going to do it face to face before the Jewish people. He is not the greatest in terms of money, knowledge, power, or anything else except for that great blessing.

As it JB himself confesses in John 1:31: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

John clearly says here that even the purpose of his so-called ministry of preparation, all of the baptizing and calling people to repent and begin anew, was so that one day he could begin his central mission: witnessing to the light: Jesus. As the Gospel of John says in 1:7 (John) came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. ( did you see in here it says "all men" not "many").

Thus JB came with a mandate from God to give testimony to the living Jesus in front of the all of the people of Israel to begin with. As a Christian is there anything greater than that we could have wished as a mission for our lives?

The second part of Luke 7:28 says yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Jesus establishes a contrast between both parts of the sentence by the use of 'yet'. In other words, part A of the sentence gives us a description, and then part B calls attention that despite part A having been so something counters what it says in part A. Part B gives a hint as to they type of contrast Jesus is trying to establish. But Jesus was not very clear.

The phrase "the least in kingdom of heaven" calls for some type of definition. We need to know who is the least in the kingdom. To try to say that Jesus answered it clearly in what followed is not considering the difficult challenge that Jesus' description of JB as the least in the kingdom has represented for Christianity from early beginnings. Just do a search in the internet; you will find countless interpretations about it means. Yet all this time the answer had been simple; for it had been in the Bible. The same terms or phrase used by Jesus in here appears in a passage in the Bible that explains what it means. Let me ask you when you went to school and the teacher asked you to look for the definition of a word, or when you want to find the definition of a word you dont know in some article; what do you do? Of course you look in the dictionary, and there are even differences in the answer provided by different dictionaries: the better ones, providing a more extensive definition, sometimes even with examples of how the word is used in sentences. But when you look for a specific word in the dictionary what do you do? It is a simple question. Do you start coming up with your own ideas of what the word could mean, and do you add some extraneous elements to the meaning of the word; that is, do you add things that have any relationship with the specific word just for the fun of it. That is more or less what has happened with the traditional and dogmatic interpretation of what is the least in the kingdom. People instead of first looking at the best dictionary available to find the meaning of this phrase; namely the Bible, have come up with a whole bunch of theological explanations that have no clear link to the text in which we find the phrase. The first place to look would be some passage in one of the Gospels where the phrase itself appears: this approach contains the greatest contextual basis for ascertaining the correct meaning of the phrase.

Is it possible to find some passage where this phrase appears that actually also not just repeats the phrase but gives us a definition of the term. YES! Matthew 5:19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This passage functions as a sort of abridged dictionary that gives its readers an important definition that they will need when they read Matthew 11:11. By keeping in mind this passage no need exists to come up with any convoluted theological notions of our own. The words "will be called the least in the kingdom" shows that what came before defines the phrase. And what dear Alexander is written before those words?

"anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly"

Our traditional teaching about John the Baptist having fulfilled his mission blinds us to the level that we cannot even see how such a perfect definitory statement relates to what is said in Luke 7:28 or even Matthew 11:11.

Now the question is how is JB less than those who set aside one of the least of the commands and teach people accordingly?


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Pedro Morales

Thank you.

Quote: 'Now the question is how is JB less than those who set aside one of the least of the commands and teach people accordingly?'

You ended with a question, can you please answer it for me.


Pedro Morales profile image

Pedro Morales 2 years ago

I am thinking of writing a hub on it; keep you posted.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Pedro Morales

I took your advice and searched the internet, I found all the answers I require.

Your Hub 'The Re-incarnation of the Son of Man' is also very revealing.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Diligent1

I apologise for the delay in responding to your post. I will attempt to answer your question ASAP.


Pedro Morales profile image

Pedro Morales 2 years ago

You did not share your thoughts about my hub; wont you leave a comment?

I would certainly like to know your opinion.


Diligent1 2 years ago

Thank you searchinsany. I am grateful for your input and time.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Pedro Morales

I am thinking of writing a Hub on it; keep you posted!


Question All 2 years ago

I am perplexed by all the debate on how the least in heaven is greater than the greatest on earth.

Romans 8:18 "I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us."

When we die in Christ we will be changed. We receive our reward in heaven and come to much more glory than we have on this earth. For this reason we suffer now.

The glory we will receive in heaven is so great that even the least will have more glory than any has on earth. The statement is purely an assertion that the glory in heaven is SO much greater than any on this earth.


Diligent1 2 years ago

QuestionAll where is heaven please?


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Diligent1

Thank you for your comment.

Quote: 'Quick interjection here. What are some of the things that John the Baptist restored?'

Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

John the Reformer

Isa 40:3 KJV The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

The purpose of John the 'forerunner', was to spiritually and morally restore the nation to a condition fit to receive the Messiah.

Luke 1:17 KJV And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

John's generation was 'evil and perverse', probably worse than previous generations who had forsaken the Lord. A major casualty during times of spiritual bankruptcy is the breakdown of the family unit, with all it entails.

Luk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

Not all Old Covenant Israel would repent and heed the warning of impending judgement. However, the elect who waited patiently for the Messiah welcomed John's message.

Act 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The only person who could restore 'all things' was the Lord Jesus Christ, by fulfilling all the Law and the Prophets. Jesus accomplished this at the great and terrible Day of the Lord in AD 70.

John was neither a miserable failure, nor will Elijah/John the Baptist return a second time to get it right, as some suggest!

John was faithful in restoring 'all things' demanded of him.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Question All

Thank you for your comment.

Quote: 'I am perplexed by all the debate on how the least in heaven is greater than the greatest on earth.'

Are you referring to something I have penned in this Hub or comments section?

Please let me know and I will answer, it could be a misunderstanding.


Diligent1 2 years ago

Searchinsany, thank you. From your explanation I see that the "restoring of all things" by John the Baptist and "the restoring of all things" by Jesus Christ are different in nature. Am I correct?

I am also observing that the "restoring" by John prepared the people for people to receive Jesus. But the "restoring" by Jesus did not prepare the people to receive anyone!


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Diligent1

Yes.

In my opinion, Jesus, by fulfilling all the Law and the Prophets:

Redeemed us by His precious blood.

Raised us from spiritual death to life in the Spirit.

Renewed us by being born again into the Kingdom of God.

Reconciled us to God our Heavenly Father.

Restored us to fellowship with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Returned to defeat His enemies.

Reigns forever in the New Covenant Age.

The restitution of all things.


Diligent1 2 years ago

Thank you Searchinsany.

All this happened in 70 A.D.?


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Diligent1

That is my view.


Question All 2 years ago

Searchinsany,

Yes, you penned something here in the comments with Pedro debating back and forth with him about John the Baptist's greatness. In the last week you quoted:

Luke 7:28 KJV "For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

You then offered up your explanation of the verse affirming John to have been successful and the greatest Old Testament prophet. You also asked Pedro for his explanation of the verse.

Pedro postulated that John was not successful, lost faith and was the least in the kingdom of God.

I offered up my explanation that the least in heaven has more glory than the greatest on earth. I asserted that the glory in heaven is SO much greater than any on this earth.

Please comment on this reconciliation of Luke 7:28.


Diligent1 2 years ago

Searchinsany, thank you again.

1. Did Jesus give a new name to the followers in 70 A.D.? And if so, what was it? I am referring to Revelation 3:12-13

2. Which enemies did He defeat in 70 A.D.? Do these enemies prevail now?

3. Has any prophecy remained unfulfilled?

Thanks again,


Diligent1 2 years ago

Question all, please respond to my earlier question on where you believe heaven is.


Question All 2 years ago

Diligent1,

You asked where is heaven. Let the words of Jesus answer that.

Our Father who art in heaven.

Heaven is where the Father is.


Diligent1 2 years ago

Question All, is it possible to be in heaven and earth at the same time?


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Diligent1

1 New Jerusalem.

2 The religious rulers and unrepentant, The Death, and Satan, none of these still prevail.

3 All has been fulfilled.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Question All

Luk 7:28 KJV For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

My comment: 'Jesus proclaimed John was the greatest of the Old Testament prophets. The prophets did not understand their Messianic prophecies and longed to see fulfilment. In the remainder of the verse Jesus explained that the least significant person entering the coming Kingdom of God would be greater than John, by having the privilege of witnessing the fulfillment of all the Law and the Prophets. This happened in AD 70 when Jesus returned in judgement to fully establish the Kingdom and New Covenant Age.'

Your comment: 'I am perplexed by all the debate on how the least in heaven is greater than the greatest on earth. Romans 8:18 "I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us." When we die in Christ we will be changed. We receive our reward in heaven and come to much more glory than we have on this earth. For this reason we suffer now. The glory we will receive in heaven is so great that even the least will have more glory than any has on earth. The statement is purely an assertion that the glory in heaven is SO much greater than any on this earth.'

I think our misunderstanding is that I didn't mention heaven or earth, I wrote the 'Kingdom and New Covenant age'.

In my opinion, heaven, as in the adobe of God, is not the same as the Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven.

The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are synonymous titles, and refer to the same Kingdom. On being 'born again' a believer enters the Kingdom and participates in its benefits and blessings. Jesus has already established the Kingdom and it is spiritual, the presence of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is a present day reality for every believer.

At physical death the believer goes to be with the Lord forever, commonly described as 'heaven'.


Question All 2 years ago

Diligent1,

I long for the day when this age is over and a new world is formed with heaven and earth together. God will dwell with us. There will be no sun for the glory of God will be the light. There will be no death or sin as Satan will be in hell.


Diligent1 2 years ago

Question All,

You have not answered the question. A simple yes or no would have sufficed. I ask it again:

Do you know of anyone who has been in heaven and on earth at the same time? Has it ever happened before (in the past) that someone was both in heaven and on earth at the same time?

Thank you


Diligent1 2 years ago

Searchinsany thank you as always. Please let me ask a couple of more questions.

1. What does the future hold for the people? With Death and Satan gone, what should an individual living in our days look forward to?

2. What is the future of planet earth?

Thank you again


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Diligent1

1. What does the future hold for the people? With Death and Satan gone, what should an individual living in our days look forward to?

The ongoing holds the opportunity for 'man' to meet his greatest need, a spiritual relationship with the Lord. This is possible in this New Covenant Age, through the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The peace, presence, and fellowship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is the prerogative of every 'born again' believer.

The assurance of everlasting life; physical death is not the end, but the doorway to the heavenly realm.

2. What is the future of planet earth?

The purpose of the Scriptures was to reveal God's great plan of redemption for mankind, which culminated in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. All the promises and prophecies appertaining to that plan were fulfilled, leading up to the great and terrible Day of The Lord in AD 70. The everlasting New Covenant Age was established at that time.

I have stated many times that I endeavour to speak only when the Scriptures speak, and remain silent when the Scriptures remain silent.

In my opinion, the Scriptures do not reveal the end of the world or the end of time. Consequently, the Kingdom of God will continue to grow throughout future generations.

We view the underside of the tapestry, the Lord sees the upside and the whole picture.

Beyond that I remain silent.


Diligent1 2 years ago

Searchinsany, thank you. I should say that your reluctance to interpret where you believe there is little or no information sets you apart from many others who simply love to twist the scriptures no matter what. Thank you for being so.

Relying on 70 A.D. as the date of fulfillment, would suggest that the Book of Revelation was written prior to this date and that also all of the prophecies there have been fulfilled per your earlier statements. Would this be an accurate assessment in light of your view on 70 A.D.? If so, is there any information on how the prophecies in this specific book were fulfilled?

Thank you again,


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Diligent1

Although 'The Revelation' is the last book in the Bible, it does not mean it was the last book written. It is important to take this into consideration when studying the 'last days'.

My Hub 'The Book of Revelation was Written Before AD 70!' may answer your question.

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Revela...


Diligent1 2 years ago

Searchinsany, I have posted a question there in your hub about the Book of Revelation.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Diligent1

Thank you.

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working