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Is Squidoo better for SEO than Hubpages?

Updated on August 17, 2014

BIG EDIT: I will keep this for historical purposes and amusement value.

  • Squidoo is no more, or rather it will cease to exist in October!
  • It got mega slapped by google for publishing shower curtain content. Nothing the team did (like banning shower curtains) has any effect.
  • HP appears to have acquired Squidoo content!

I guess this definitively answers the question of which is better for SEO!

Source

What is better for SEO squidoo or hubpages?

It is a little bit early for me to make definitive statements about which is better for passive income, I have been writing hubs for 5 weeks and squid lenses for 3 weeks, so before you start shouting at me, this is just exploring some ideas and observations, with no definite conclusions at the end. If you think I am an idiot, you are most welcome to show me the error of my ways.

For the record my hubpage income so far has been negligible and my squidoo income is zero, so there is really no data to compare. The question I am asking, but not really answering, is if you did published the same content, got the same backlinks (or no backlinks as the case might be) on squidoo or hubpages, which would give you a higher rank on google searches for your main keyword, and hence more organic traffic, and hence more lovely coinage?

Squidoo vs HubPages first impressions

Squidoo is a revenue sharing site, in many respects similar to HubPages, in fact since squidoo was there first, I think we should really say that HubPages are similar to Squidoo. Of course there are differences in format and certainly differences in the way the revenue is shared, but I will not write extensively about that now. I am really interested in whether Squidoo or HubPages give you better a better SEO platform to ensure proper respect from Google, which is so sadly missing from many of us producers of fantastic web content. Whether you prefer the format of one site to another, is largely a matter of personal taste.

I have to say that I found the squid monsters and other strange orange creatures which kept popping up randomly with insanely cheerful messages, like little pixel amphetamine addicts, somewhat unsettling at first, although I am used to them by now, and find them less irritating. Many Squidoo lenses seem to be geared towards selling affiliate products like this one featuring tree frog posters and merchandise, that I made. I find being able to put affiliate links from allposters very useful, it's great for adding beautiful images to the page without worrying about copyright violation.

Keyword research and Market Samurai

I started thinking about all of this when I decided to do some keyword research. I had quickly become frustrated by the complete contempt Google was showing all my internet outpourings, and decided that perhaps researching the topic I wanted to write on, with a view of how likely it was to rank in google might not be a bad idea. I had tried doing keyword research using Google Adwords tools, but the data from it was a bit too 'raw' for a newby like me. Also I found it quite difficult to obtain further information that I felt I really needed to find out if my hub or lens on a particular subject was going to be consigned to page 326 of Google results.

At a simplistic level, how much search engine traffic you will get will depend on two things, how much demand there is for a particular word (how many people search for it), and how good the already-existing supply you will be competing with is. The free adwords tool was quite good at providing information about the demand side of thing, how many searches there were for a particular keyword per month, but not particularly forthcoming about the competition. It would tell you that the competition was 'low', 'medium' or 'high', based on how many search results there were for a particular word, but nothing else. There might be ways of squeezing more data from it, which i haven't figured out yet, but I was too impatient to try. Many people had written about using Market Samurai for keyword research, and since there is a one week free trial, I decided to try it.

Market Samurai and my SEO competition

Market Samurai gives you the same information as Adwords keyword tool, in a more user friendly fashion. You enter in a 'seed' keyword, it will generate a list of suggestions, related keywords that people interested in the topic type into google, and then analyses the list looking at how often a particular word or phrase is used and how many sites you would be competing with for the first page. However, once you've picked a keyword phrase, it does something far more useful, it collects data on the ten sites on google's first list that are returned in searches for the keyword phrase and shows you how strong they are, based on a number of criteria. It even colour codes the results for you, with green being week, yellow medium, and red being strong.

The idea is that if the first google page is one big block of red, then you are very unlikely to get on it, hence unlikely to get much google traffic, and you are better off looking at another keyword before you start writing. This often doesn't mean a change of subject, the same topic can be searched for in several different ways, often it just means picking a different keyword, and then using it in the url, title, headings etc. I think it makes sense that it is better to use a keyword for which you will get 500 users per month, but have a chance of getting to the first page, then one that gets 100000 users per day, but where your site will be listed on page 13.

Market Samurai looks at the number of backlinks your competitors have, in four different categories which I don't really understand, but it also actually tells you which sites are linking to your competitor, the page rank of the linking site, and the anchor word in the link. However, it also considers the sites on a number of different criteria, including domain age, page rank, whether the domain is listed in DMOZ and yahoo directory and whether the keyword is present in the url, title, heading and description (note to self, write descriptions for hubs!). And it is on these other criteria that I am wondering whether Squidoo is better than HubPages.

Market Samurai SEO competition explanation

HubPage subdomain vs Squidoo domain

Now, other than knowing that backlinks are very important, nobody knows much about the google algorithm, which frequently changes anyway. So it is impossible to tell how important the other criteria, like domain age, and the number of pages in the domain indexed matter. I have found a few keywords, with a reasonable amount of traffic (hundreds daily rather than thousands, but hey we are talking about one hub or lens, which takes a few hours to make), that have sites on the first page that have no links!

Squidoo has a higher PR (page rank) than HubPages, but that doesn't seem to matter, because if you are just starting out, your pr will be 0 as far as I can tell. It is after all page rank, not domain rank. However, since HubPages introduced subdomains, if you are a new member, your domain age will be zero and the number of pages in the domain indexed, will be the number of hubs you have. In contrast, when you are writing for Squidoo, you are producing a page on the Squidoo domain, your domain age is 9 and pages indexed is more than one million.

It seems to me that, all things being equal, Squidoo gives you an SEO advantage by lending some of its 'domain strength' to your pages, which HubPages doesn't do. This might not matter so much for the older Hubbers, whose subdomains are mature, and who have a lot of hubs, but I Market Samurai seems to indicate that, all things being equal, you might have a better chance of ranking well if you are new, if you publish on Squidoo.

Having said that, I have two pages on similar topics, one on each site, and their google ranks are 41 and 44, so it doesn't really seem to make a difference. I am also surprised that I don't rank higher, according to Market Samurai, I should have a chance at beating a couple of the first page sites. Perhaps I need to work on the on-page SEO, which is sometimes forgotten in the great chase after backlinks and offpage tricks.

So as I said at the beginning,some observations, no real answers, what do you think?

HubPages vs. Squidoo update after a couple of months

It has been some time since I wrote the above, and I've had a bit more time to observe how my hubs and lenses are doing in Google's search results so I thought I would update with new observations. As far as I can tell my hubs are doing just as well as my Squidoo lenses. It is hard to copare them exactly because they are on different topics, and there is a big distribution in my rankings, I've been quite lucky with some hubs, some are doing less well than expected. However, I haven't observed any advantage in terms of ranking from having the lenses on the big Squidoo domain. Quite a few of my hubs are doing pretty well in Google for their, not very competitve keywords.

Either Google passes on some advantages from the HubPages domain to our subdomains which the SEO programs like Market Samurai don't see, or the links we get from HubPages count as backlinks and give a big boost to hub ranking. In Webmaster tools, links I get from other hubs (by appearing in the sidebar as a related article) and links form the main domain appear as backlinks, so presumably this is how Google treats them. If this is true, then having one's hubs appear in the 'best of' or 'hot' of a category becomes very important, since these pages have pretty high PageRank (PR5).

I have not been paying much attention to hubscores, since I reasoned they were a HubPages specific metric that didn't affect Google ranking, but, since appearance in 'best of' is presumably determined by the hubscore, I think it is important to aim for a high one, since it will get you a high PR link. The hot and best lenses of a second level subcategory have a PR of 4, while the third level subcategory has a PR of 2.

In terms of earnings, I find the Squidoo model to be quite frustrating. To me there is a major lack of transparency in how lensrank (which determnes the share of the site revenue you get) is calculated. This has put me off writing more lenses and I now have 4 times as many hubs as I have lenses. Having said that I think I will make approximately four times as much from HubPages as from Squidoo this month, (Squidoo pays out with a two month delay, so this is the first month I will see my earnings from the site). It appears that for me at this early time, both sites are working very similarly in terms of Google ranking, and of earnings.

Of course it is still early days, it will take a few months (and some more lenses), before I can really say anything definitive about how HubPages compares with Squidoo.

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    • profile image

      kelleyward 5 years ago

      This is very interesting. I write on Squidoo but only have one published lense so far. That lense has earned me nothing. For me it's best to focus on one site at a time. Thanks for sharing this hub!

    • Trekkiemelissa profile image

      Trekkiemelissa 5 years ago from Illinois

      I have been on Squidoo as long as I have been here. They have their ups and downs. Many do better here than they do over there. The platforms may be similar, but they are very different. Squidoo is more personal while here is more about informative.

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 5 years ago from London

      Thanks for commenting, I agree that hubpages seems to be more geared towards informative text, whereas Squidoo is often used to showcase products to sell. I have seen lenses with little written content. Different formats for different things. I was just wondering what the one big domain of Squidoo versus the subdomains of hub pages had on google ranking

    • HikeGuy profile image

      Bryce 5 years ago from Northern California Coast

      In my own experiment between my last round of hubs, my first lenses on Squidoo and my new adventures on Blogger, Squidoo pages are the slowest to gain Google traffic and have the lowest traffic of all. My total *weekly* traffic on a dozen lenses is less that my daily traffic on 26 hubs and my even more recent blogs.

      It's not an entirely fair experiment, because I have some hubs that are more than three years old -- but even the most recent hubs get a lot more hits than my most popular lenses.

      The most enlightening part of the experiment is how quickly I gain traffic on Blogger. Pre-Panda, rev share sites may have had some advantage -- not any more.

      When I publish something new, I prefer Blogger. This year, I'll move up to my own domains. I'm not a fan of any site's mystery rev share earning formula.

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 5 years ago from London

      I have to say, that despite the market samurai analysis, my hubs seem to get google traffic faster, than my squidoo lenses. It is possible that Panda recognizes the advantage that writing on a revenue share domain, that had been around for a long time, would give your page, and takes that into consideration (i.e. gives less weight to doamin age etc. if your page is on a rev share site) so the Squidoo advantage no longer applies. Having said that Squidoo reckon they weren't hit much by Panda. But empirical data rules!

    • ltlearning profile image

      ltlearning 5 years ago from Argentina

      Thank you for this HUb, I am planning to start writing in Squidoo soon. But first I want to get solid in Hub pages , I am just getting started here, but is good to know that squidoo can also be a good alternative

    • Trekkiemelissa profile image

      Trekkiemelissa 5 years ago from Illinois

      Its not all about selling products over there, granted that is one of the best ways of making money through them. If you write more personal stories over there, you do better. Right now, I have a tad less hubs than I do lenses. I'm actually making more here than I do there.

    • sonykkid profile image

      sonykkid 5 years ago

      Hubpages get traffic quicker, i think in the long run it's Squidoo though, I think this is because there is less hubs so they get indexed faster and so get traffic quickly but in the long run it seems to me that SQUIDOO ranks higher, can anyone see the same thing. Hubpages= quick traffic

      Squidoo= slow at first but picks up

    • cnatraininginfo profile image

      cnatraininginfo 5 years ago from California

      Hubpages gets traffic much faster and the system which encourages you to link up with other articles with a high rating causes your pages to gain page rank faster. It works out better for everyone within hubpages unfortunately squidoo lenses doesn't have this feature it is also harder to find articles within squidoo since there can be so many millions of lenses in a topic area so unless you do a lot of external linking you won't see much from them.

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 5 years ago from London

      I'm not sure how linking to other hubs on the same topic helps you, it helps the person you're linking to, especially if your PR good, but giving somebody a backlink, doesn't do anything for your page, except for getting karma of course :)

      I think ultimately everybody needs traffic from search engines, you can't just depend on the hubbers. And people form google are more likely to click on an ad.

    • arsajitech profile image

      arsajitech 5 years ago

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 5 years ago from London

      @arsajitech Hi, you do realise links in comments are nofollow don't you? Save your spam for some other sites.

      @cnatraininginfo I did have an idea that could explain relatively high ranking of webpages. I think when our hubs are linked to from the hubpages domain, this is considered an external link. And it is a link from a pr6 site. So in effect we are starting out with a high quality link as soon as we publish a page. Looking at my SEOquake bar, when I look at my account page on hubpages, the one that lists all my hubs, it has a pr of 6. Unfortunately my profile page has a pr of 0 :( With Squidoo, because everything is on one domain, if squidoo links to a lens, it is an internal link. This might be a way in which having subdomains is beneficial, as well as the connection with all the other hubbers.

    • profile image

      M.-J. Taylor 5 years ago

      Great hubpage! Many SEOs do believe that subdomains are perceived by Google as distinct sites. If that's so, then presumably one could develop three hubs/subdomains and the links to one's main website would have more aggregate SEO value than the links from three Squidoo lenses.

      However, that said, PageRank does flow within a site so the "external" link from Hubpages.com is not necessarily a bigger boost to a fledgling hub than the internal flow on Squidoo is to a new lens.

    • collegedad profile image

      collegedad 4 years ago from The Upper Peninsula

      Very informative! I haven't used Squidoo yet, but I can see where it would be an asset to my publishing arsenal! Shared and thumbs up!

    • Crazzykylex profile image

      Crazzykylex 4 years ago from Incredible India!

      I myself 've seen many Hubs rank as high as the top most when it comes to Google rankings. Too poor, Squidoo never managed to cross the second position (as far as my memory serves)

    • masmasmous profile image

      masmasmous 4 years ago

      can u please update us on this

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      Hi masmasmous,

      From my as yet limited experience my hubs are doing just as well in getting organic traffic as my Squidoo lenses do. I now have many more hubs than i have lenses, also with Squidoo, but it seems to me that I am making about equal money from both sites per article. A good number of my hubs are on the first page of Google for the phrase I was targeting, so I don't think the subdomain structure of HubPages is bad for SEO.

      I now think it might be very helpful if a hub is listed in the 'hot' or 'best' of a category, Google seems to think these are backlinks, and, for example, the 'pets and animals' category page is PR5, while the 'reptiles and amphibians' subcategory page is PR4. You can see how having your hub linked there would help in the rankings.

      I really don't like Squidoos lensrank system of paying people, I can't quite figure out why my lenses keep going up and down in rank, and I don't like the fact that it doesn't just depend on traffic. I think that if you could just figure out the magic formula for getting lenses to rank1 you would do much better with Squidoo, if you had 10 rank1 lenses you would make about $450 a month! I suspect that Squidoo is set up to encourage a lot of 'internal traffic', if you go and leave comments and 'squid likes' on other people's lenses, you will get a lot of reciprocation and this might boost your rank. I don't really like that because I suspect that a lot of people don't really take the time to read the pages, just zoom through leaving inane comments and likes on as many lenses as they can fit in an hour. I think something similar happens here, but earnings don't seem to be as dependent on doing that, if you'd rather spend your time writing hubs and only commenting on other people's pages when you have something useful to say or you like them.

    • profile image

      sunny 4 years ago

      I like squidoo because it seems to have more options for earning money with affiliate programs and the built-in community really helps with getting traffic.

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      Hi sunny,

      I have to agree that Squidoo allows a lot more affiliate links than hubpages and allows you to advertise zazzle, allposters etc. products, which can make you money and prettify your pages. I actually dislike the built-in community aspects for getting traffic, it's almost like you have to run around the site, liking other's lenses so they like you back, so you get better lens rank. I like participating in the community but really I would like to get paid for outside traffic that I attract.

    • Greekgeek profile image

      Ellen 4 years ago from California

      Squidoo lensrank rewards lenses which get a lot of clicks -- not just on ads (as that would be against advertisers' TOS) -- but also on links to useful resources, images, or other off-Squidoo content. The idea is that if your visitors have found something worth clicking on, that's a good sign. This is the exact opposite of Hubpages, which could shot down a hub for being overly promotional.

      I've found that clickouts make a huge difference in lensrank, so I use traffic to help me see what my visitors are looking for and provide links to things they might want (where it's appropriate and fits the lens). Also, unfortunately, lensrank drops if you don't update, or at least republish, pages every month or so.

      Short story: if you have a page which just gets readers, and they don't tend to click on anything, put it on Hubpages, which pays for raw impressions. If you're being a concierge and pointing visitors to useful resources, great photos, or other interesting links, put it on Squidoo, which gives pages that get lots of visitor interactions a higher payout than you'd get from ad revenue alone.

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      Hi Greekgeek, I have read your guides to success with Squidoo and the importance of getting clickouts, I guess I should try to bait my visitors with more links. I've often thought that whether people prefer one site or the other really depends on where they've written initially because despite the initial similarities the 2 sites require quite different strategies. I started with HubPages and then thought I could do the same thing with Squidoo. Not that I have any real success with this site, but I seem to be doing better than Squidoo.

      I do find the lensrank system rather frustrating. I guess this is sour grapes, but I come across lenses on similar topics that I write on, that are really quite bad. Really thin content written in bad English, I don't mean just some typos, I mean really bad English. Of course I can't really tell what kind of Google traffic that lens gets, but the title is short and the lens definitely doesn't rank well for the title keyword, and because the content is pretty thin, I don't think the lens can get much long tail keyword traffic. Yet they have very decent lensrank. I realise writing the above makes me come across as bitter and twisted, but when trying to figure out how to succeed on a site, I try to find successful examples to emulate and it is rather disheartening when the examples of success are rather disappointing.

      I'm not putting down the people who succeed by writing about how to bake tinkerbell shaped cakes for kids parties, although the topic doesn't interest me at all. If there is a need for that information on the net, and they can attract people who need to know that, good for them! But sometimes I wonder how the lens ranking system really reflects how much different lenses earn.

    • TimArends profile image

      Timothy Arends 4 years ago from Chicago Region

      Interesting. I didn't know that Market Samurai was an alternative interface for et Google Keyword Tool. Good tips here.

    • profile image

      thara 4 years ago

      Thanks for your tips

    • profile image

      chrisinhawaii 4 years ago

      Voted up and shared! I've been considering putting some stuff up on Squidoo but just never got around to it yet. Did I understand correctly that you're earnings are about the same - per article - as on HubPages? If so, then I will definitely want to give them a try.

      Thanks for a good hub, and even more thanks for coming back with an update. Updates are nice. I like updates...

      Aloha!

      PS - My step-brother-in-law (?) in California grows all kinds of slimy, scaly, slithery things for fun, and I'm sure he would absolutely LOVE your hubs. I'll have to find some good ones to share with him on Facebook.

    • Rfordin profile image

      Rfordin 4 years ago from Florida

      I too write here and at Squidoo. I have yet to see the "earnings" at Squidoo because i'm less than 2 months old there. I am very interested to see how it's all calucalted when I "grow up" more at Squidoo and the compare it to Hubpages. I must admit the fact that I see my earnings grow here daily (albeit pennies) is much more motivational then having to wait two months to see any income from Squidoo. Thanks for putting this together, we can never know to much about the two platforms.

      Voted interesting and useful.

      ~Becky

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      @chrisinhawaii, yes, even though I thought I really disliked Squidoo it turns out I make per article as much as I do here. I just find their lensrank system so oblique, and I don't think it's very fair.

      I have heard somebody say that with the lensrank system most of the people are subsidising an elite clique. Which is sort of how I feel. But here's the thing, rather than complaining about it, if I could only get into the elite, I would be laughing.

      I have one lens which is earning about 50cents with lensrank of about 17 k. If I could only get it to do a bit better and put it in the top 10k it would be making about $8 a month. I don't think I have any hubs that earn that much individually.

      The trick is to figure out how to write for Squidoo, despite their similarities I think the sites support very different types of writing. Greekgeek has some very good hubs on how to be successful on Squidoo, if you're thinking of writing there you should probably read her stuff first.

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      Hi Becky, yep the daily growth of earning on HubPages does keep one motivated. However, in the long run I really care about how much money I can make from each site overall. Of course I like writing, but if I didn't want to earn from it I would just stick to scribbling in my diary.

      Are you Rfordin on Squidoo too? I'll look you up. I am aalite there (one word). I've been thinking that we hubbers who are struggling with understanding Squidoo might want to form our own little clique and conquer the sucky animal from within.

    • profile image

      chrisinhawaii 4 years ago

      Hey, thanks for the info. I'll tell her you said, "Hi." =)

    • profile image

      chloelozano 4 years ago

      I just published my first Lense on Squidoo, but I am not yet sure if this will be a site that I will be using consistently. Thanks for this Hub. It gave me a little bit of insight.

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      Thanks for reading chloelozano, and good luck with your lenses. I've concentrated on writing more on Squidoo, than here this month. With the way Google is treating the two sites (loving Squidoo, not loving HP) I really feel I should give it another serious go. Of course you never know, the Google situation could reverse itself any day.

      I've started doing "product" lenses trying to earn from Amazon. I do wonder if Squidoo isn't so successful because of the type of articles written there. It might well be the best site to write "how to throw an angry birds themed party for your kids", or "what to get dad for xmas". I think it is a lot more suited to that than HubPages. HP is still the place I prefer for writing informational articles, but the problem is there are other places that are good for that. My Hubs are in competition with wikipedia, about .com buzzley and other sites. Its possible that the kids' party theme articles on Squidoo don't have much competition from other sites, so they do really well, hence the site gets a lot of traffic.

    • Paul Maplesden profile image

      Paul Maplesden 4 years ago from Asheville, NC

      This is a really helpful comparison of the two services. As a writer that's new to article sites this helped clarify where I should be spending my time. Upvoted.

    • truebluewriter profile image

      Malds Menzon 4 years ago from Manila, Philippines

      Great article. I've been wondering whether squidoo lenses are better than hubs as well because of the domain structure. Since hubpages creates sub-domains for us, we don't benefit much from it's PR and old age unlike squidoo (like you said).

      What led me to think this way was because of a hub I wrote that is on page 2 of google for a keyword despite being fairly long. It's not the best written hub since I wrote it as a google/keyword experiment lol. But I recently found a lens on squidoo which is way way shorter text wise that is on page one for the same keyword. My initial thought when I found that lens was that squidoo was pouring a lot of it's authority into the lens which made it look good to google, thus the high ranking. Now tho I realize that it might just be because the lens is just a month old so it's ranking high (freshness) or if it's because maybe the author built better links to it.

      I already have some lenses on squidoo but I mostly just wrote them to build links to my personal blogs. I've never really looked at squidoo as an income source since I couldn't figure out their income system and stuff. Might have to read up on it though, but only after I write more hubs. I don't have enough hubs to earn anything decent here as it is hehe. I've only ever had one payout here and that took me months to get lol.

      Again great post and voted up.

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      Hi truebluewriter and thanks for reading. To be honest the longer I publish on the web, the more complicated ranking on Google seems to me. I think the algorithm is now becoming so complicated that it is really hard to reduce it to simple factors like domain age or PR.

      The real difficulty with HP is that traffic here seems to fluctuate quite a lot (that seems to be happening to a lot of websites incidentally). I think the site might still be under some kind of Panda penalty, whereas Squidoo doesn't seem to have offended Google.

      On the other hand, in terms of earnings, more traffic on Squidoo doesn't necessarily mean more earnings because of their complicated tier structure. At least with HP you get views-you earn money.

      The real way to earn from Squidoo I think is to write product review pages etc. that make their money from Amazon. Their modules seem to convert better and at least you know that when you make a sale you will be paid.

      I have lately written quite a lot of Squidoo lens

    • truebluewriter profile image

      Malds Menzon 4 years ago from Manila, Philippines

      quick question, and only if you're willing to answer :). Would you know the number of views, or at least the range, that a lens would need to have on squidoo for it to be considered top tier? If I wrote a lens that got say 30-50 hits a day (900-1500 per month), which tier would that fall under with squidoo?

      I want to at least have a general idea of how much I'd make per lens I write before I actually get down to writing it. That way I can determine if my time is better spent writing posts on my blog or hubs here on HP.

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      Well this is only going from my experience, my best lens gets between 90-150 views a day and it is ranked at 3000, so not quite first tier. My second best lens gets between 30-50 views a day, and it is ranked at 7000, so also second tier. I expect these two lenses to make between $7-8 a month.

      Lets say my best lens gets 3,000 views a month and that on HP it would earn $3 per 1000 views, so it would earn $9, so in fact it is not doing that badly on Squidoo, but if I could just push it into tier 1 it would make $40-50. The rank is not just determined by the traffic, though. Many other factors like clickouts, likes and sales matter. Greekgeek has an excellent lens about that on Squidoo.

      My best lens got 354 clickouts in the last 30 days, according to Greekgeek clickouts are an important factor in lensrank. It hadn't made Amazon sales since Christmas, with each Amazon sale lensrank is boosted (although this effect fades with time, so you need to make regular sales), I suspect that if I could sell more regularly from it, I would get into the top tier.

      Incidentally my lens ranked 7000, with 30-50 daily views had 215 click outs in the past month.

      But so far I've made a lot more money from Squidoo from Amazon, then from the ad share payouts. I suspect that most of the people who earn there do so from affiliate stuff rather than from ads, although I am sure there are exceptions.

    • truebluewriter profile image

      Malds Menzon 4 years ago from Manila, Philippines

      hmmm that makes squidoo more attractive now lol. I was expecting much bigger numbers to get to tier 2. I'd be hard pressed to get to tier 1 but tier 2 might be possible. $7-8 per article, per month isn't so bad. The lower range tier 2 lenses seem to do better than their equivalent hubs (based on views) going by your numbers. If I can just maintain several 8k-10k ranked lenses, they'd do better on squidoo than here on HP. I'll try writing a new lens on something I know I can rank quickly on google and I'll see how easy or hard it is to get to the bottom tier two range.

      And i have read a couple of the posts of greekgeak actually since she always comes up when I'm researching squidoo and hp comparisons. They're pretty good and i have learned quite a bit from reading them.

      Thanks for the info. I think I'll continue writing on hubpages for now and only create a lense when I get lucky with an easy to rank keyword that has tier 2 or 1 potential. I'll create a similar lens on squidoo for those that I know will rank well. At least here on HP less than tier three level views (5-10 a day maybe?) help with your over all impression and add to HP earnings.

    • aa lite profile image
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      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      Yep, good luck on Squidoo. Their ranking system is good/unfair depending on where your lenses fall. For example I had a Christmas gifts lens that had an average rank of 11 k (more or less) in December. That lens will get less than a dollar for that month (for November the payout for tier 3 was 59 cents), but lenses that didn't do much better than it, and just sneaked in to tier 2 will make $8.

      The other think is the tier system is competitive, so it's how your lens does relative to other lenses. You might still be getting the same amount of traffic, but if other lenses surge ahead (say they are seasonal for Halloween) you could fall to a lower tier and loose a lot of money. Still it is best not obsess about these things I guess.

      One thing that you should look out for when searching for keywords to use on Squidoo, is to see look at the Squidoo competition. There are many squids who do extensive keyword research, and a lot of topics seem pretty saturated. I think it is a lot harder to rank for a kw if Google already thinks there is a really good page on the topic from the same domain. Of course if there is a lens targeting that keyword but it doesn't seem to be very good, and doesn't rank on the first page of SERPs, then you just have to do better. Sometimes Squidoo will not let you use a URL saying it is taken, but you can't find the lens. That means it fell into the red work in progress tier (worse than 400,000) so you can make a competitor lens, just add something to the URL.

    • truebluewriter profile image

      Malds Menzon 4 years ago from Manila, Philippines

      Thanks for the tips. Will give squidoo a go and see what happens in a couple of months.

    • Greekgeek profile image

      Ellen 4 years ago from California

      aalite:

      After a traffic loss last November that hit me but not ALL lensmasters -- I think I was leveraging image search traffic a little too heavily, and Google went *bop* -- I'm now getting almost exactly the same average traffic on both sites: 42 visitors per lens (on average) and 42 visits a week per hub (on average), although that includes hubs and lenses that get hundreds of visitors a day and ones that don't get any. Before that, I averaged better traffic on Squidoo.

      So for me the SEO is about the same; the question is just which site earns better with which kinds of content.

      And at that, I'm still earning more on Squidoo because of the earnings potential of second tier lenses ($11.82 in November), top tier lenses ($69.53 in November) and my better sales conversion rate on Squidoo ($542 Amazon sales in Q4 on Squidoo vs. $12 on Hubpages, and a few Zazzle/Cafepress sales from Squidoo lenses whereas I'm not sure I'd dare use Zazzle/Cafepress links on Hubpages.)

      I wonder if Google has looked at what kind of content tends to dominate each site, and tends to send more commercial traffic towards Squidoo, more "information-seeking" traffic towards Hubpages. On the other hand, I'm self-perpetuating that by placing my more informational articles on Hubpages, since its interface looks cleaner and less commercial. So maybe I'm just self-selecting my own traffic by what I post where.

      P.S. I completely agree with you about what I call "cupcake lenses" on Squidoo. When I started on Squidoo, it earned very little, but most of the articles being posted were educational and informational. It's changed a great deal, and not all to the good. Then again, some of the "related" content that shows up on my astronomy hubs makes me want to bang my head against a wall.

    • aa lite profile image
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      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      Hi Greekgeek,

      I must say I've become rather fond of Squid00 since November when I started writing Amazon lenses. I have finally broken the walls to the inner sanctum, one of my lenses made tier 1 in the middle of the month (will still get paid as tier 2 in January since its average lensrank is 2600, so close but so far away!) and yesterday another lens was ranked just under 2000. If they maintain it this in February I might have to get a discrete squid tattoo!

      I actually think the question of "which site is better for SEO" isn't so relevant anymore, I guess really "mechanical" factors like page rank, domain age and "lots of backlinks=good", which I was thinking about when I wrote this hub, don't count as much as they used to with Google, and it is really unclear to me how Google treats subdomains.

      The point of the hub was whether subdomains on HP weakened the SEO advantage of writing on a big well established site. Still not sure how Google sees this site's structure. I know it was done to isolate everybody's stuff from the spam on some accounts, I'm not sure it is working. It seems to me that we still get the benefits (and the slaps) for being connected to the HP domain.

      The thing that i really liked about HubPages, other than the less cluttered interface, was that you get paid exactly what the hubs earn. When one starts on Squidoo, the lensrank system makes it seem like some exclusive club to which the plebs is denied entry. Pages that don't get much traffic, but are not completely dead will earn better on HP, but really "good" pages that can make it to tier 1 or tier 2 will earn a lot more on Squidoo.

      I do think the Squidoo payment system is pretty unfair, I think the money should be shared more equally between the ranks, or the boundaries expanded. I am pretty certain that my top lens doesn't actually make as much from the ads as it will be paid, if it stays in tier 1 (although I am hardly complaining about this!). What is especially weird is that an Amazon sale boosts lensrank (I presume temporarily), sure everybody is happy when something sells, but the reward from that comes from the Amazon affiliate payment, it seems unfair that it can also result in more ad share. It seems to me that if people are clicking a lot on Amazon links, they are probably paying less attention to the ads. I guess it is a way of manipulating people into writing more commercial lenses. But it is hard to complain about the "system" when it helps one make money.

    • Greekgeek profile image

      Ellen 4 years ago from California

      Yep. Even the industry experts have a merry old time arguing about whether splitting content off into subdomains helped Hubpages. Just last week, in a searchengineland article I read called "5 Whopping Lies That Keep SEO At Status Quo," a fierce comment war erupted over the SEO benefits or drawbacks of subdomains. If those experts can't figure it out, there's no way I'm gonna.

      Good luck with chez Squid, and may you continue to find the sweet spot! I have developed something of a love-hate relationship with Squidoo over the last year or so, since I'm making good money on it but dislike many things about the site, including the desperately-in-need-of-an-update tier system.

      The thing I find baffling about Hubpages is that, in theory, I get exactly what my pages earned, but in practice, I have no idea which pages earned what (apart from a vague guess that higher-traffic pages are earning more). As a newbie, I learned so much on Squidoo by observing which of my efforts earned and which didn't. I think Squidoo's more granular page-by-page feedback -- if you are patient enough to drill down on the dashboard and study it -- is one of its oft-overlooked strengths.

    • profile image

      Educateurself 4 years ago

      Firs of all nice and informative hub.I haven't use squidoo but i would say that no comparison between hubpages and squidoo because both of them have their own qualities.As i am using hubpages, Hubpages is very friendly.But one think that frustrate me is they can't pay you without paypal service which is very bad for us because paypal isn't available in my country.But i have my amazon affiliate account for little bit some extra money but it's very hard to earn from amazon.

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      Thanks Educateurself for your kind comments. I'm afraid Squidoo pays through Pay Pal as well so it is not really an alternative to HubPages in that respect. Do you have an Adsense account? I guess you must have if you use HP Ads. If you switch HP Ads off, you will earn from your pages here purely through Adsense, which as you know is paid by Google directly to you, rather than through Pay Pal.

      Most people finds they earn more if they switch ads on, but it kills the Adsense earnings, so if you switch them on, your Adsense earnings will increase and these are not paid through Pay Pal.

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      They are different in many ways, but the question is, which site gives your content a better platform for ranking in Google? All websites have their unique features, yet Google has to rank thousands of results, and it judges them all by the same criteria. Thanks for reading.

    • dentistes118 profile image

      Devjeet Singh 4 years ago from India

      Wow...long discussions...I read few of them...Actually I agree to shubo9. There is no comparison between Hubpages and Squidoo. Personally I do prefer hubpages just because easy to navigate but thousands of bloggers are active at squidoo and they are doing really well.

    • aa lite profile image
      Author

      aa lite 4 years ago from London

      Thanks for reading dentistes118, I have to say that having written extensively on both sites I wish I could "merge" their page creation to create the perfect too. There are features on HP that I wish Squidoo had and vice versa.

      Ultimately I prefer the way hubs look, I wish Squidoo could come up with some nicer looking themes, how hard can it be? On the other hand I make a lot more money on Squidoo right now and that is hard to argue with. I don't think their payment system is very fair, but it is not difficult to choose an unfair system that still pays a lot more, than a fair transparent system where I earn a lot less. But, I'm sticking with HP, writing on both sites, because you never know, the situation could reverse.

    • dentistes118 profile image

      Devjeet Singh 4 years ago from India

      *agree@aa lite

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