Cervical Cancer Vaccination For Schoolgirls Launched in South Africa
National vaccination campaign to prevent cervical cancer
A national vaccination campaign to prevent cervical cancer in women was launched on March 13, 2014 in South Africa. The initial target group seems to be Grade Four school girls. The majority of these girls are TEN years old. This vaccine is supposed to protect girls from cervical cancer in 20 years' time. According to South Africa’s Health Minister, Aaron Motsoaledi, the vaccinations is an investment not only in the girls' health, but in the health of a future generation of women.
Harald zur Hausen
HPV – the culprits causing Cervical Cancer
The Human papillomavirus (HPV), a DNA virus from the papillomavirus family, had been identified already in 1983-1984 by the German virologist, Harald zur Hausen, as the virus causing 75% of human cervical cancer.
Harald zur Hausen, born 11 March 1936, received the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine and also the Gairdner Foundation International Award in 2008 for his research on cancer of the cervix and his discovery of the role of papilloma viruses in this particular cancer. He identified HPV 16 and 18 DNA in cervical cancer tumors – the culprits responsible for ~75% of human cervical cancer. His research led to development of the vaccine, Gardasil. He also identified HPV 6 as the virus causing genital warts.
NB: Harald zur Hausen shared the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 2008 with Luc Montagnier and Françoise Barré-Sinoussi, the discoverers of the human immunodeficiency virus.
Cervical cancer is the second most common cancer in SA women, killing approximately 3 400 women in South Africa each year.
According to research 70% of cervical cancers are caused by the Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) - a very contagious virus transmitted during intimate skin-to-skin contact.
Two HPV vaccines on the market:
Two HPV vaccines are currently on the market:
- Gardasil, approved in 2006 by the United State’s Food and Drug Administration (FDA), protects against HPV: 6, 11, 16 and 18. Gardasil is a quadrivalent vaccine manufactured by Merck.
- Cervarix, which is bivalent vaccine manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline, has been approved by FDA in 2007 to protect against HPV 16 and 18.
Random Facts:
- HPV 16 and 18 cause 70% of cervical cancers.
- HPV 6 and 11 cause about 90% of genital warts.
- HPV 16 and 18 infections are also the cause of a unique type of oropharyngeal (throat) cancer.
- Gardasil is also indicated for boys and men ages 9-26, protecting them against HPV 6 and 11.
- Gardasil was also approved for the prevention of anal cancer in 2010.
In South Africa both Gardasil and Cervarix were approved by the Medicines Control Council (MCC) in February 2014. I am not yet sure which vaccine is applied in the current campaign against cervical cancer in South Africa. According to some articles in the local news papers it is 'completely safe and not the same as the one that was applied in Japan'.
As protection against cervical cancer the HPV-vaccine is given as a series of three injections over a 6 month period to females between the ages of 9 and 26. However, according to my granddaughter the girls in her school will receive only two: One now in March and one in November - 2 injections over a period of 8 months. (According to the newspapers the second campaign will be in October.)
Negative Reports on the HPV vaccines
A Cancer vaccine program with Gardasil, made by Merck & Co, and marketed by MSD Pharmaceuticals Pvt Ltd., was suspended by India in July 2010 after the death of 4 girls and complications reported by 120 girls.
In June 2013 the government of Japan withdrew its recommendation to use the HPV vaccines in girls just a week after health officials in the United States had concluded that the vaccine effectiveness is indeed "high." The Japanese Ministry of Health, Labor, and Welfare has not suspended vaccination; they merely instructed local governments not to promote the use of the medicine while analyses are conducted about adverse effects. From December 2012 until March 2013 106 serious cases of body convulsions, pains in joints, and/or difficulty in walking have been reported.
Prescribing information in the US:
Gardasil: The most common systemic reactions in girls in American trials were headache (28.2%) and fever (13.0%). Arthralgia occurred in 1.2% of Gardasil recipients. In the entire American Gardasil study population of 29,323 individuals, 0.04% had serious systemic adverse reactions that were judged to be vaccine-related by a study investigator.
Cervarix: The most common systemic reactions were fatigue (54.6%) and headache (53.4%). Arthralgia occurred in 20.7% of Cervarix recipients. In the entire Cervarix study population of 16,381 females, 5.3% of recipients reported serious adverse reactions.
Complications reported not only in India are stomach disorders, epilepsy, headaches, early menarche, seizures, strokes, dizziness, fatigue, weakness, vomitting, muscle pain and weakness, joint pain, auto-immune problems, chest pains, hair loss, appetite loss, personality changes, insomnia, hand/leg tremors, arm/leg weakness, shortness of breath, heart problems, paralysis, itching, rashes, swelling, aching muscles, pelvic pain, nerve pain, menstrual cycle changes, fainting, swollen lymph nodes, night sweats, nausea, and temporary vision/hearing loss, just to name some of them!
According to http://truthaboutgardasil.org/ thousands of girls are having adverse reactions to the HPV vaccines. Their report dated March 28, 2013 stated that at least 103 girls had died after receiving the vaccine.
Please visit their site for more information and contact moderator@truthaboutgardasil.org to file your complaints.
Author’s Note
My granddaughter (10 years old) received the first of 2 injections on Monday, March 24 (2014). Since Monday she is suffering side effects such as high fever, headache, fatigue, appetite loss, nausea, and pain.
We are all concerned about her and pray that she will get well soon. Her parents will most probably refuse the 2nd injection.
Nevertheless, we read in the newspapers -
that the vaccine used in South-Africa is
'completely safe. The HPV vaccine that caused deaths in Japan is completely different from the one that is being used in South Africa. The vaccine used by SA's government has been used for many years in the private sector without any adverse effects.'
Gardasil - The Damage is Done: From A Best Friend's View
Gardasil Victim Speaks Out After 2 Years
More hubs about the HPV vaccines -
© 2014 Martie Coetser
Comments
AUTHORHi, dearest Sannel :) My granddaughter was ill for about a week, thereafter her old healthy self again. The second shot will be in Sept or October. At present I have no idea if her parent's are going to allow it or not. As far as we know she was the only girl in her class who fell ill after the injection, so we can't even launch a petition of a kind. Furthermore, as the grandmother/mother/mother-in-law in this picture I have provided sufficient info and advice; I don't have the right to make any decisions. Always good to see you, my dear friend. I hope you are well and happy :)
Hello Martie! It's been a while since I posted my comment here. I'm just wondering how your grandchild is doing now. Did she go through with the second and third shot? I hope her side effects are now gone and that she is doing much better.
Hugs and love,
Sannel
- AUTHOR
Silver Fish, I should actually contact all of my granddaughter's class mates in order to determine weather her side-effects were unique, or not... But oh, making the time to do this, seems to be too much of an effort.
- AUTHOR
LongTimeMother, please post a link in here to your hub. I would love to read and link it :)
- AUTHOR
Teaches, amazing how even the most-informed professionals tend to disagree about all issues under the sun. The truth has many sides, and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
- AUTHOR
I agree with you, Nell - "Even if one person has such bad effects then they should stop the whole vaccination program until its been approved safe." On the other hand, if this was the modus operandi of pharmaceutics, we would not have had any medicine. Only thinking about penicillin - able to kill a minority, but able to safe the lives of the majority.
My ranting is about the restraint of proper information. The letter of consent that had to be signed by my daughter, contains only the positive - not a word about the negative, Not even mentioning possible side-effects. Not encouraging parents to make an informative decision, but steam-rolling them into a decision that may be regretted.
- AUTHOR
Crafty, I would so love to hear the opinion of your paediatrician. Thanks for leaving a positive comment :)
HPV vaccine is given routinely to all 13 year old girls here in the UK in school.
Thankfully my teenage daughter nor any of her friends have had any ill effects.
I am pleased you wrote on this subject, martiecoetser. I refused to allow my teenage daughter to receive the HPV shots given to other young girls at her school and I intend to write a hub explaining my reasons why. When it is completed, I will link to your story here.
So sorry about your granddaughter's reaction to the vaccine. I have heard medical personnel discuss the pros and cons of the vaccine. The answers vary. Myself, I would avoid it since the studies do not show the effectiveness of the vaccine. The side effects alone are concerning. Thanks for bringing this to a higher awareness.
This is terrible Martie. I am sorry to hear your granddaughter is starting to have side effects. those videos were so sad, what the hell are the schools thinking? even if one person has such bad effects then they should stop the whole vaccination program until its been approved safe. I am ashamed to say i wasn't sure if they used it over here in England, but yes they do, so far I haven't heard of any really bad cases happening on the news, but that's not the point. if this thing hurts and damages children and teens then it should be retested and retested until it darn well works properly! Well done for bringing this to our attention, I am sharing it everywhere, nell
This is very interesting. I'm so glad the vaccination is available to South Africa. Cervical cancer takes the life of too many young women. I'm so sorry to hear about the ill suffering your granddaughter went through. I didn't realize the vaccine is available to girls as young as 10. I have a daughter that age and the pediatrician has never spoken about it.
- AUTHOR
Audrey, of course, when we see the victims of cervical cancer, or even being a victim ourselves, we do regard ANY prevention worthy of a try. Thanks for exposing the true monster. Fortunately most of our fears are but only mountains we make out of molehills.
- AUTHOR
Agapsikap, good to see you! I've been wondering where you are. "Is this really the answer" is indeed the answer we ask on a daily basis, when we find ourselves bombarded with new inventions. What is the name of that tranquillizer that had caused severe handicaps in newborn babies? Now what of this vaccine eventually proved itself to fall in the same category? We can not help being sceptic and scared. My granddaughter is okay again. Thanks for caring :)
I can tell you that looking at the other end of that with those that I love, the very real dysplasia and looming cervical cancer, is a lot scarier--at least that is what we are dealing with now
- AUTHOR
AudreyHowitt, thank you so much for your comment. I honestly need some positive feedback. I hate being negative, but reading the negative reports, and seeing my granddaughter suffering side-effects, have changed me in an instance into the devil's advocate. Now I am only hoping that we will never regret the first injection, and also not the second IF we decide to take the risk. I think taking any medicine is a risk. And yet, without medicine and all the miracles in medical science we would have been in a most unfortunate state - like the generations before us.
- AUTHOR
Hi, Faith :) Those videos scared me tremendously. I am, however, open-minded, realizing that people are not all the same. What may kill one, may save the lives of many. I can but only hope that my granddaughter will not suffer any more side-effects. Thanks for caring, Faith :)
- AUTHOR
b. Malin, I educated myself and shared what I have learned with the hope that others will be able to make a decision based on positive as well as negative facts and not merely on promotions. In the meanwhile I have read a lot about a variety of vaccines, and many of them contain the most dangerous ingredients. Absolutely horrific. Will write about it as soon as I get the time.
Hello, Martie!
I haven't been here for so long and after signing in and opening my account the first hub I saw is this one. To be honest, I wasn't so sure what to comment. I haven't heard of this vaccine here in my place. And reading those side effects made me shiver. It is clear to me that the purpose of this vaccine is to protect the young girls from having cervical cancer in 20 years time by trying to give them painful choices. And by trying to kill some at an early age. I have a daughter, I know how it feels to be worried all the time about their health. Is this really the answer?
I hope that your granddaughter is okay now.
I hope your granddaughter is well soon. But as the mother of daughters in their 20s I find I must speak out in favor of this vaccination. HPV is the leading cause of cervical cancer for women in the US and the percentage of the population carrying HPV--both males and females in the US is very high-- And unfortunately, those young women with HPV often encounter high grade cervical dysplasia, leading to the most aggressive and lethal forms of cervical cancer. Vaccination right now is the only way we have to prevent this
Oh, Dearest Martie, I am so sorry your precious granddaughter had to go through all of this with the terrible side effects, but I am thankful to know she is much better now!
As always, you have brought a lot of insight to this issue and those videos are truly eye-openers for sure!
Superb hub to bring awareness, as I certainly was clueless about this Vaccine.
Up and more, pinning, tweeting and sharing
Hugs and love,
Faith Reaper
Oh Martie, I'm so Glad to read that your Granddaughter is ok again. But this Hub is Heartbreaking to read, and look at the Videos that you have provided. I had heard about the problems the other night on a News Report.
You've done an Excellent Hub, and have Educated those who did not know about this Vaccine. My Votes of Up, Interesting and Useful. Thanks dear friend.
- AUTHOR
Hi Genna, I have filed my concerns and this hub has been brought under the attention of our Minister of Health. We would really appreciate more information, as they in fact imply that S.A. is using a 3rd vaccine, which doesn't have the same side effects as the 2 we all know about. Now why not reveal the source of this 3rd vaccine that has no potential fatal side effects?
To be honest, Genna, our government tend to underestimate the intelligence of all South Africans.
Thanks for your supporting comment.
Btw, my granddaughter is okay again. She managed to beat the side effects. Hopefully we will not eventually regret giving permission for the 1st injection.
Oh, Martie…my prayers and good wishes are with your granddaughter -- and with you as well.
“The vaccine used by SA's government has been used for many years in the private sector without any adverse effects.” This is shocking. How can they continue to say that there is “no causal link between the vaccine and the side effects” is beyond me. Our CDC still recommends this vaccine and Merck is still producing it, all the while “running studies.” I agree with Ruby; sometimes the remedy is worse than the condition it is intended to prohibit.
- AUTHOR
mckbirdbks - Thank you so much for the positive energy and encouragement. At present I am not really in the mood for writing, but traumatic experiences always inspire me to write. What next, I wonder....
- AUTHOR
Thank you, my dear marcoujor! We know by now that nothing is perfect; what may be good for some people may be bad for others. How can we ever know in advance what will affect us negatively or positively?
Dané is still ill, diagnosed with flu. So maybe her body was already fighting flu on Monday, and therefore not strong enough to cope with whatever is inside the HPV vaccine. We must keep in mind that some people are allergic to the most wondrous Penicillin, and even while many had died of it, it is still an amazing miracle on the market.
Martie, you take on bigger and more important topics at every turn. My best wishes to you and your granddaughter. I feel this step is very proavtive for both your granddaughter and the general population of South Africa. You keep tackling the big issues. I am also sending positive enegry in your direction.
Dear Martie,
I am sending hugs, positive energy and love for your sweet granddaughter to feel better soon.
In my community nursing notes: "The HPV vaccine is an important way for women to protect themselves against cervical cancer, which kills about 4,000 women each year in the U.S. Both vaccines protect against the types of HPV that cause most cases of cervical cancer. One of the vaccines can also help protect both men and women against genital warts. However, vaccination doesn’t protect against all HPV types that cause cervical cancers or genital warts. Whether you have to get vaccinated depends on your age and where you live. In certain states, girls and boys within the recommended ages may need to get the HPV vaccine in order to go to school."
As a parent, I would not be in favor of the vaccine for young girls. The risk - benefit ratio of a medical strategy must always be considered. This impressionable age is the key time for parents and teachers to raise awareness in our kids to the risks of sexually transmitted diseases.
This is an excellent, informative and thought provoking piece. I am proud of your advocacy and will keep a look out for further updates on your sweet girl. Love you, mar
- AUTHOR
@ TO ALL – I have edited some facts and added more information. At present I feel quite scared, overpowered by medical science and pharmaceutical giants who obviously have knowledge and power far beyond my comprehension. I feel victimized. My granddaughter felt better this morning, but this afternoon/evening she is down again with fever, headache, fatigue, pain in her ears. MAYBE she was infected with some streptococci (flu) on Monday, and if this was the case she was not supposed to be inoculated. If she is not better tomorrow her mother will take her to the doctor.
@ thewritingowl – I’ve read your most informative hub and linked it to mine. Thank you for the link :) Very nice to meet you :)
@ Sannel – As far as I know cervical cancer is one of the most easiest cancers to cure, and especially when Pap screening is done at least once a year. (Oh boy, look who's talking! I so hate these routine check-ups!) The video’s - your link and another one I found, which I added to this hub - are absolutely horrific! Only one negative result of any vaccine should be enough to stop distribution. What exactly motivates pharmaceutical companies to stick to their guns while they are well aware of negative results? Making money should not be their first priority! I am utterly astounded!
@ bravewarrior – I am very concerned about my granddaughter. How dare we believe that ‘God’s will be done’ while we recklessly accept every product presented by pharmaceutical gods to prevent possible illnesses? Oh, of course we should take care of ourselves and do everything in our power to stay healthy (and sane), but this particular vaccine seems to be a capitalistic exploitation of people with a (natural) fear of cancer and death. I honestly hope that I am only a neurotic grandmother with no reason whatsoever to feel anxious about this entire issue.
@ MsDora – Having a choice seems to be one of the greatest challenges in life. Some choices are easy to make, while others keep us in a state of hesitation and anxiety.
@ DDE – Greatfully contemplating the vaccinations against polio, pox, diphtheria, etc. – essential, lifesaving vaccines - I feel kind of guilty because I don’t trust this HPV vaccine. I was away on holiday when my daughter received the notification from her daughter’s school. She trusts medical scientists and government campaigns that seem to be to her children’s advantage, that is why she co-operated without discussing the matter with me. Monday afternoon, back from holiday, when my granddaughter told me that she was inoculated against cancer I couldn’t believe my ears. I mean, a vaccine contains the very viruses that cause an illness in order to stimulate the production of antibodies. How could I just accept this as if it is just another compulsory subject? Worse of all, I was not even aware of this campaign. Why not? Because this entire issue reminds me of e-tolling – The government kept it under the table – only allowed as little as possible publication – to come down on us like a cloud-burst, leaving us with no choice but to grab blades of straws while going with the tumultuous flow. I honestly don’t like the total undemocratic modus operandi of our government, underestimating the intelligence of all people and violating our rights in a very treacherous manner. I am disgusted!
@ always exploring – I haven’t heard or seen a word about this vaccination until Monday. Okay, I don’t watch TV – it only blares in the background – I do hear important announcements. Maybe it was a topic of discussion on one or the other program. Maybe. But I also get a lot of notifications about issues published in newspapers. I am interested in political and social matters. So how on earth did I miss this national campaign against cervical cancer? I am gobsmacked. Please read my reply to DDE. I am honestly fed-up with the modus operandi of our government.
@ Eiddwen – if my granddaughter was okay after the vaccine, I would have accepted the state of affairs without much ado. But now she is ill because of the vaccine, or perhaps not because of the vaccine but incidentally after the vaccine, so call me a tigress protecting her litter against a potential threat. And of course I am concerned about all children in this country, and even in this world. I will surely attack any giant jeopardizing their wellbeing, even while those giants will only see me as a little ant standing on his hinds. By now we know we cannot trust the leaders in charge of this country. They prove themselves over and over as incompetent on almost every level of management. Let me have a cup of tea before I intoxicate myself with an overdose of disgust.
Interesting and very useful Martie. I am so sorry that your daughter is suffering and you are in my thoughts. Thanks for sharing this great hub which I am sure will be useful for so many others. Lots of love coming your way from Wales.
Eddy.
Martie, This is one of the times when a parent is unsure. In your granddaughter's case, it is a positive, no more! I remember when this topic came up during the last election, Michelle Bachman told of a little girl dying from this injection. At the time i thought it was just a political ploy, but maybe not. Sometimes medicine is worse than the disease. A well composed article, saying a prayer for your beautiful granddaughter. Hugs.
The side effects is showing more effectively hope your granddaughter gets well soon though this is great idea to determine the Cervical Cancer with a vaccination.
The vaccination my seem like good idea, and many will benefit, but it is great to have choice. Hope you make the best decision for your granddaughter. Thank you for sharing this information.
Martie, I've seen so many advertisements in the past for Gardasil here in the states but haven't heard about the side effects. Although now that I think about it, I haven't seen any ads recently.
I'm so sorry your granddaughter is going through this. I pray she gets through okay. Thank you for doing the research and getting the info out. I'll gladly pass it along.
The best way to prevent cervical cancer is with routine Pap screening starting at age 21 years. Vaccination cannot prevent as many cervical cancers as can Pap screening. Gardasil and Cervarix does more harm than good!! It's not even fully researched yet!!
Please, take a look at this video and also read what it says about this vaccine. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive...
It's just sickening to know how far the pharmaceutical companies will go just to make money. My prayers and thoughts goes to your beautiful grand daughter and her family. I hope her side effects will improve, and she will not go through with the second and third shot.
My love and hugs,
Sannel
Its in the US alright as it is here in Ireland, link to youtube video in my Hub telling Ashley Ryburn's story who was a normal US girl before Gardasil vaccine. I did research into this vaccine when my daughter was offered it, this is the research I discovered about it here: https://hubpages.com/health/What-is-the-HPV-Cervic...
- AUTHOR
@ Nadine - thank you for sharing this on your sites. Parents should know all there is to know and not only the one side coming from those who benefit from the campaign. As I have already mentioned, I am not against the campaign, but only frightened by all the negative side effects and angry because the Department of Education did not really air their campaign well enough for parents to make a properly informed decision.
@ Act 3 - thank you so much for your positive comment. Sadly, we have to wait many years before we will be sure that this vaccine should be appreciated or not.
- AUTHOR
@ Kallini - Sadly pharmaceutical companies laugh all the way to the bank while people desperately cling to their products. The current vaccination campaign in S.A. is financed by the government; the vaccine cost about R700 = 100 loaves of bread. Thanks for your supportive comment.
@ fpher - I am quite surprise to know that this 'break-through' in medical science has not been boosted by America. I wonder why not? Will get more info today regarding the filing of complaints down here.
My daughter received the Gardasil vaccine here in the states with no ill effects. I'm not disputing these other reports, just stating my own experience. Most vaccines, measles, polio, etc., are scientifically sound.
Thank you for that excellent article. I'm also truly sad about your grand daughter's reaction to the vaccination. I will share your article on all my networks since I feel more mothers should think twice before exposing their children to any vaccinations today. When I first heard on the TV about this vaccination campaign to prevent cervical cancer, my first reaction was: I was horrified. I must admit that my reaction is not substantiated by me having any medical knowledge, but I just feel that the side effects you mentioned is for me proof that more articles like yours on the side effects must be spread over the internet.
Martie.....This is all new information to me. I think I would have seen something in the news if this vaccination campaign was here in the US currently. I do recall reading an article or perhaps it was a documentary on TV, about the testing and research that was on the horizon for just such a vaccine.
Your poor darling granddaughter...Martie I hope she is improving and these uncomfortable symptoms have subsided. I can imagine how you and her parents have worried over this. Have they contacted any other parents to ask if their own daughters were experiencing like problems?
An excellent informative hub, Martie. Keep us posted. Bless you....UP+++
I think it is a very timely and traumatic if not dramatic topic. I have conflicting "information" as well. I put "information" in quotation marks because I did not feel that I could trust medical and pharmaceutical community at all.
I was offered vaccination even though I am on the outlier's point (the recommended age is for females from 16 to 43). I was also told by a doctor that Cervavix was a better vaccine (hence more expensive, about $540) because it protects from more HPV variations and also boosts your immune system. Gardasil was good, too, but less expensive (about $400).
The other doctor told me that at my age, the only "benefit" is the benefit that the pharmaceutical company makes and it is quite substantial.
I think pharmaceutical companies are as rich as banks.
I just finished a course "Gaining Autonomy With Medication" (or "On the Other Side of the Pill")
and I was so regretful that I never really questioned much why I was prescribed this and that and what it does to me. The proper information is hard to obtain. It is harder still to make an informed decision.
I wish you the best with your granddaughter. I hope she will be okay.
I don't know what to say really because I was/am on the over-medicated side and I wish I wasn't.
Much love,
Svetlana
- AUTHOR
Billybuc, Americans are skeptics when it comes to health issues. Their suspicions and opinions should be taken to heart. Why do I wonder who convinced our government to approve this campaign? We appreciate your prayers.
- AUTHOR
Vocalcoach, I am not normally against vaccines. I trust medical scientists. All medicine, including vaccines, are poison, but we tend to trust medical practitioners, who tend to trust pharmaceuticals. In the meanwhile pharmaceuticals sell their projects via impressive brochures until court orders force them to take it off the market. Now how many people have to die, or be negatively effected, before the court acknowledge flaws coming from laboratories? Twenty years is a long time for a product to prove itself successful....
My prayers also go to your granddaughter. Interesting that I have heard nothing about this in the States. If it is effective I'm wondering why it isn't pushed here....something just seems strange to me about this. I hope I'm wrong but judging from the statistics you mentioned at the end and the side effects, I suspect I might be right. Blessings to you and yours my friend.
Martie - Your beautiful granddaughter is in my prayers along with the rest of your family. This must be a frightening time for you.
Be sure to let us all know how she is doing. I certainly wouldn't allow any more injections based on how sick she has become from the first one.
Our children should not be used as 'guinea pigs' for testing the HP vaccine. These are unthinkable reactions. I don't trust the reported 'studies' that have been done for this vaccine.
This outrages me. My best to you all Martie.
46