The Writer's Mailbag: Installment 297

Bill

I agree regarding the grammar rules, sometimes they just don't fit!

I think that as writers, we need to be conscious of who is speaking, and change the way we write to fit the person, otherwise it just isn't true to character!

As for me, at the moment, besides keeping the buses running and writing my prequel to Sting of the Scorpion I'm working on setting up a website.

I got a kick out of reading your introduction to this mailbag. I have often misinterpreted the meaning of songs, particularly some of those from the 1960s. As to art, especially abstract art, I think that we all get a free pass as to what is meant by it.

I am back after a few months of visiting so I'm ready to start work again. A list like yours will be helpful as well as sitting to work.

Oh how I miss reading the mailbag. I think I want to take you up on that coaching opportunity. I have much more to learn. This is the first I know of it! Been out of touch for the last few months.

I am working on my fourth book. It will be call I, Refugee for the moment. I am finished with the 4th draft. I am looking for test readers --free ones! I plan to send it to Cedar Fort Publishing. If they reject me I plan to self-publish.

I'm a Hubber here. Can you put out the question if everyone else's traffic is dipping like mine?

Aaaand...just that quick, we have moved on to The Young Rascals. :)

Hi Bill, have you dried out up there? No drowned chickens?

I won't comment on the grammar since Shauna just shared the easy way I learned the I versus me thing. That's among the least confusing aspects of grammar to me! Years ago, when first learning Spanish, I learned how little I know about my own language when we had to learn thing slike past participles and such. I mean, how am I supposed to understand those parts of gramar in Spanish if If I don't even know what they hell they are in English? LOL. And one of my biggest writing vices is using passive voice.

But....I do have something to say about the rhythm of poetry. I'm not an expert, but I do know that there are cues within the poetry itself that tell quite a bit about an author's intended rhythm. There is, of course, the rhythm that naturally occurs due to things like the number of syllables and which ones are stressed. And then there are also other clues such as where a comma or other punctuation is placed. People naturally pause slightly for a comma, for instance. Even the way a poem is broken into stanzas can provide clues to the intended flow.

Okay.....I must go to bed now. I've been awake way too long. Enjoy that sunshine!

You have enough projects there to keep you busy for quite awhile. I'm sure you'll complete all of them. Sunny days were made for Beatles songs, hope the nice weather continues.

Bill, "would you like to go out to eat with Bob and me?" is correct grammar. I wrote an article on elementary ways to check your grammar.

In the above sentence, remove Bob from the picture and you'll know which pronoun to use.

Which is correct: Would you like to go out to eat with I? or Would you like to go out to eat with me?

It's elementary! LOL

I love your choice of song, no matter what the intended meaning was when The Beatles wrote it. As you say, it's all in each individual's interpretation. Isn't freedom wonderful?!

Oh how wonderful to be back and may I say once again thank you for being so inspiring my dear friend. As for goals of the future Mine is to get back to where I was on here where everyone said that my hubs bought sunshine to their cloudy days . When I used to take photos on our many explorations (which I still do) but with the added bonus of knowing that in a few days they would be combined with words from my inner being and shared with my hubfamily. This is what I have dearly missed but thank goodness many of you are still here. Thank you again for another gem Bill and you are indeed one very important factor of who and what makes hubpages so special.

As a fellow Beatlemaniac, Bill, you should have known better. (Guess what that's a call back to?)

Enjoy your day.

These reminders you share are valuable. I've had to rearrange sentences to prevent the editor from writing "Bob and I" when I know it should be "Bob and me." Long live GOOD grammar!

It's been an entertaining mailbox today.

I think two videos are not necessary for a good article. One is okay. You may add one extra capsule like a question or quiz, a table or a map, like that if it suits the topic.

Your writing goals are great. I really do not keep any gaols. It's just upon my mood.

I wish you a pleasant week.

You have some great plans for the future, Bill. Good luck!

I really like your take on grammar! Spend most of your time creating a good story and then worry about the grammar. You can always look up the correct way to structure a sentence or use quotes so get into your story.

My plans for the future include going back to a children's series that I started many years ago. I already completed outlines for the fifth and sixth books so it's just a matter of turning them into stories. I also have plans to write two books making a dog the central character. In one of the stories, the protaganist will be based on a fear dog that I fostered for two years who couldn't even walk on a leash because she had such mistrust of humans. She was part Carolina dog who is the oldest breed of dogs living in North America. They live as wild dogs in the savannas of Georgia and the Carolinas. Truly, they are fascinating dogs! She walked with a prance like a wolf and she could run like the wind! Ginny was a little diamond in the rough. She lived with me for two years and indeed at the end of that time, she finally learned to trust again and even learned to shake hands and dance! She loved to dance to Zorba the Greek. With her coat, a burnt orange and eyes like a deer, she was the most beautiful dog I'd ever seen and I've seen quite a few as I've rescued many from some very tragic situations. A dog that completely shut down in the shelter and was already scheduled for euthanasia, taught me that you should never come to a hasty judgement about anyone and that sometimes there's magic in those most shy and fearful and we just need to give them a chance. So, anyway those are some of my plans. After a long hiatus for health reasons, I'm hoping to finally get back on track! Thanks Bill for your excellent advice, once again, and encouraging us to get with it.

It's raining cats and dogs here again. I'm glad you had sunshine yesterday. Have a great week.

Current projects and goals? Thank you for asking! For me, just to get something published. Often, I feel like those out-of-tune contestants on American Idol when Simon Cowell used to ask them why they chose to audition and the response was “because my family tells me that I can sing.” It is nice to have a family fan club but I would like to experience the thrill I hear writers talk about and really know if I can do this. Thank you Bill, and other veteran writers for your encouragement to not give up.

Happy Mailbag Tuesday??? Okay, late again. Oh well.

Re: Poetry and Rhythm. I push myself to read the poem of the day from PoetryFoundation.org (they're here in Chicago BTW). Like you, some of them have no obvious rhythm for me. It's as if the poet threw up on the page with some stream of consciousness outburst. Maybe that's the desired effect. But I'm guessing in some cases, it isn't.

Re: Current Projects. Glad to see the Maggie book is at least on the list. :)

Re: Grammar. Yep, grammar can be very wrong at times. We must never confuse grammar with communication. BTW, still reading this book titled, Because Internet, which is all about how the internet (note the small "i") is rewriting language. Fascinating.

Anyway, hope your week is starting out good!

Hello Bill!

Thanks for sharing another set of helpful questions and answers, in this mailbag.

While reading Richard’s question, I was reminded of my earlier days of joining HubPages. It took me many hubs and repeated visits to the Learning centre of the Hubpages, to understand how it works. However, the rules have changed so many times, and would keep on changing, in future too.

Thank you for your interesting answers. Have a good day.

My goodness, Bill, you certainly are in a jolly mood. I get that way too when the sun's out. Your choice of lyrics after 'Good Day Sunshine' threw me, though, since they belong to 'Got to Get you Into My Life.' Eh, so what, as long as you're happy.

Regarding your first novel, I've always felt like it needed a sequel, so I am glad it's on your 'To-Do' list.

Another memoir starring Maggie and Toby. Joy!!!

And finally, the reason 'me' in your query, "Would you like to go out to eat with Bob and me?" sounds better is because it is grammatically correct. Removing 'Bob and' and it's pretty obvious then that 'I' is incorrect. I do this kind of check in descriptive writing, but the rules go pretty much out the window when dialogue's involved. I like dialogue, it's so liberating.

Catch you later, Bill.

Another excellent mailbag! I'm with you on the grammar. Sometimes rules were made to be broken. ;) I'm glad you are enjoying some sunshine! Have a wonderful week!

Oh well, I was going to chime in on the grammar debate but I see 3 hot shots have beaten me to it! Writing goals? I have 2 draft hubs at the minute, awaiting research and structure to fill them out.

I always loved grammar class. I’m helping my niece with some grammar exercises online. There are some teacher websites that make games of grammar and vocabulary so it’s fun (or as fun as possible).

Great article Bill! I enjoyed it very much! Thanks for sharing!

Donna Rayne

Informative and entertaining read - thank you!

Bill, the sentence ref 'dinner with Bob and me' is correct. How do you decide? By saying, 'Would you like to go out to dinner with Bob?' and 'Would you like to go out ..... with me?' 'Would you like to go..... with I? is not correct! It's all about breaking it down - subject and object - usually that makes it easier to see which is right.

My writing plans? The memoir and my grandchildren's diaries for them to know more about themselves and about me along the way. I want them to appreciate family history.

Almost 300, bill! Amazing!

Ann

Hi Bill hope you having a good Monday, thank you for another useful hub.

I liked this one.

Gabe and I had the talk. Listen, follow instructions, obey your teachers regarding rules of writing.

If something bugs you, tell me. But do not tell the teacher. Don't even ask why.

Now let that boy boogie woogie with writing -- at home ;-)

Another great mail bag, Bill! I totally agree with you on grammar. I also think it is important to read it out loud. I also think the 1250 words, 3 photo, 2 video formula works quite well. As always, thank you, Bill, for doing this column.

Bill, who are “the grammarians” who keep giving you false information? They definitely do not know formal English, or sometimes even good casual English, for that matter. Bill Holland is grammatically correct to say “with me,” and that is why it sounds better to you. “With” is a preposition and the object of a preposition is always in the objective case, “me, him, her,” not the subjective case “I, he, she”. “You” and “it” can be either objective or subjective, depending on use. In addition to having good English teachers who taught me that, my current source is the Harbrace Hedges Handbook. Even online dictionaries are elusive about this.

Sometimes a sentence sounds stilted because it is WRONG. Yes, I do break rules and I do split infinitives if needed, but I don't go out of my way to be incorrect just because it sounds sophisticated to me like some of these ignorant yahoos are doing.

FYI, Harbrace is a small inexpensive book, kind of like crib notes, which I find to be a quick grammar reference guide. It has a good index so you can find things quickly. My legal editor’s office uses it, so it is a professionally approved source. I recommend that anyone who needs to learn good grammar, or even editors like me (not like I) who need a quick reminder, buy one and keep it handy. That way you’ll be able to argue with all these self-appointed slang-slinging "grammarians" who don’t know formal English.

(And Paula "Sis" has a good method. I was taught that one, too.) Thanks for letting me have my soapbox today. I do get emotional about grammar.

I’m so glad you have sunshine. Ole Sol keeps trying to peek out in Arkansas today, too. Just hoping the temperature gets into the 50s.

Hello dear Bro.....Your stamina makes me tired! Anyway, I had time to read today and I'm glad I did. I want to share a tidbit of a grammar lesson I was once given by a "self-proclaimed expert".....aren't we ALL?

About and "me and/or I" issue. Here's what I was taught is the perfect solution. Repeat the sentence aloud, eliminating the OTHER party (just leaving in yourself) eg....Sentence: Mom made the cookies for only Pete & me." Most people would have a tendency to say it should be "Pete & I." BUT If you take Pete out of the sentence, we know it has to to be "me"...because we would not say, "Mom made the cookies for only I. Right? Although this seems to be a silly way to determine which to use....it's the easy way. What do you think?

And by the way, Mr. Hot Shot Bro.....I admit I'm a mouthy brat...but I am not caustic........(I looked it up! Na na na na na) Mom said you should say only nice things about me.....even if you're lying!

I've learnt something new today about that Beatles song!

HP is a constant learning curve for me.

I agree with you. Good poetry has a rhythm of its own.

My goal is to write all the articles that I have gathered material for.

Congratulations on your coaching success. I hope you pick up more students, as you deserve to.

I love that song! Unfortunately the weather over here doesn't match it! lol! Great advice as always Bill. Enjoy your day!

Happy Monday Bill! Glad you are enjoying some gorgeous weather also. Even though there might be a snow storm or something lurking in the future, this last weekend felt like spring and I enjoyed the heck out of it. Grammar be damned, especially in comments! :)

Hope you have a fantasticly productive week!

Hi Bill,

Thanks for tackling my question about poetry. I'll be popping back to read your readers comments too. Thanks Manatita, for expanding on the answer.

Have a great week.

I have to say thanks for posting your Mailbag on FB. It reminds me it's Monday. Although how I forget is beyond me, but I do. It's the prompt I need to come read fun quips and ignoring of the grammar gods. Now go out with the dogs and have a good day!

Blessings,

Denise

Interesting mailbag as always. I always admire the way you are so consistent with writing. These days I am finding it really hard to keep up with writing. I am regular at HP but my blogging has taken a backseat.

Yes, Bill.

Perception is a big one and even creates enemies.

I think of words like having 'energies.' So for the devout, fear is reverential, but for some of us, it's associated with the negative.

You have covered the prose well, so who am I to mess with it? Poetry, though, is about styles and character; would make use of the mind or Heart or both.

Some like romance, others like rhyme; some like Haiku and Sonnets, while still others like free-style to be more creative.

Character comes in here as the mind or the Heart decides, or both. Some here have mature Hearts, yet the mind is dominant ... for different reasons.

The Beatitudes or Psalms, requires a kind of childlike attitude, identification, harmony and oneness to be understood. Yet they are profound in their simplicity.

They require 'feel' or the Heart's sweetness. The meta- physical is for the Heart's Light, but a lot of poetry, is by nature a mental approach. Useful also. Different strokes for different folks.

Mary may know that esoteric poetry needs to be felt and not analised. They would stay in the psyche longer. Mental poetry is satisfying, brilliant, but they tend to lack the sublimity and loftiness of the psychic Heart -- that space within, where we can feel the music or melody of words. A lot here.

You combine both mind and Heart in your work and that is why you are so awesome!

"My Lord does not ask me for my mind's brilliance. He only asks me, for my Heart's radiance." - Sri Chinmoy.

Beauty is in the eye (and ear) of the beholder. I think the arts (and I include song and writing) are up to interpretation. What you see and hear and understand might not be what I see and hear (and goodness knows what Eric might come up with). But I don't think that one is right and the other wrong. We're both right. Right?

Yes, you had a lightweight mailbag too but the questions and answers were good as always. I'm glad you had some sunshine to keep you entertained, and I'm looking forward to what Maggie and Toby have been up to.

Have a great week my friend.

I really like that Beatles song and I had no idea it had anything to do with drugs. LOL

As to the grammar example, "Would you like to go out to eat with Bob and me?" I was told to say the sentence and leave out the "with bob" then you know whether to use me or I. I don't know if that is grammatically dorrect.

I enjoyed the article, Bill. I am glad your weather has improed. enjoy!

Wonderful answers today. I love that song too, and I hate all the drugs. I have a kid that got caught up in them for awhile and I am so happy he got out of it. It took tough love a couple of times to get the point across to him. If he was doing drugs, he was not welcome at our home. If he was not doing drugs, he was very welcome. We even had him put in jail, for taking my husbands pain pills. Really tough on us, but that one worked. He put himself in solitary to clean up. He is drug free for 6 years now, and he is a great son.

He is coming over on his days off and helping mom get the yard cleaned up, after winter. I can't get it done very well on my own. 4 acres is too much for this retiree. I ride the riding mower around, and he follows, throwing garbage in the trailer. He has hauled off 2 pickup loads already, and there is still some to go. Wind was rough out here.

Any day is a good day for the Beatles. Good mailbag, Bill, and hope the nice weather keeps up. Cheers.

Just going with the flow here. Happy Monday Bill!