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Defunding and Qualified Immunity Together

Updated on June 9, 2020
Ericdierker profile image

Holding degrees in philosophy and Law. Formal studies or certificates or degrees in business, theology, insurance and security. Ex-preacher.

Walker Texas Ranger

That was his courthouse, still in use.
That was his courthouse, still in use. | Source

No Good Side

How to defund and how to defeat qualified immunity. Everyone should at least understand a little about qualified immunity. It protects police officers, and more, from being held accountable for bad acts. Defunding has as it’s goal the demolishing of police departments. Defunding and qualified immunity are not fly by subjects. But regardless of getting all hysterical over matters right now it is a good time to slow down and try to understand the nuances of what is being spoken about.

Defunding no matter how you slice the pie will require citizens to hire private police. There is just no universe in which if cops loose their jobs they will not get another one. And what better than on a private police force. Well that would mean the same cops just without the restrictions of government. If I were writing up the insurance on a building I would raise the premium because of no police around. And then I would waive some of that increase if you hired real trained police as your private police.

Qualified immunity is not a legislative law. It is wholly made up of the non-representative judicial branch of our government. No lawyers did not create this atrocity, justices did all on their own.

In large part qualified immunity is a bar to bringing a lawsuit against a law enforcement officer if he was working at the time of the action that gives rise to liability. Notice I did not say the government entity for which the law enforcement officer (hereinafter LEO) worked at the time. They are still liable.

And here is a good one. If the LEO does not get qualified immunity the union and entity and insurance pay for any liability that causes an award or compromise for damages. (about a 1% exception to that rule)

Who's Authority

Who Protects Him?

Who protects schools and Mosques?
Who protects schools and Mosques? | Source

Degrees

Now if we defund, one place to cut back is insurance. It is almost a “who cares?” deal with insufficient funding. So the next victim will probably not get as much because there is just not enough insurance. Insurance is huge here. If you are writing insurance for police department Y and Y does not have enough officers and so is negligent in staffing and training and equipment. Are you going to increase coverage and decrease premiums? Or are you going to decrease coverage and increase the premiums.

Now I want to move my industrial business to your city. Now I am simply not going to do it. I am going to have an event and sports team play in your city and bring in tons of revenue. Now I am simply not going to do it. I am a gun shop. I will start ordering for inventory because I am going to have a run on guns. I am a criminal that sells guns. I will need more for people who cannot legally buy one.

OK you have a great home with a 100K mortgage on a 200K home. You do the math. Is John the buyer going to buy yours with no cops and schools that are not protected? Not to mention, you guessed it, your homeowners, or rental insurance is going to triple in cost. Look on the bright side maybe you get a reduction in property taxes – when was the last time that happened – never!

Back to qualified immunity and our recent case. Hey that officer was using an often used technique. And believed it to be warranted and legal. He would be right. It does not matter if it results in a death or skinned knee. Under qualified immunity he will not have to face civil liability. ABSURD! You cry. Don’t yell at me, I hate the rule of law in this instance. There are cases that are precedence that cover just such a scenario and rule against the victim. Be sure to note here we are not speaking of criminal liability but in that case they are going to get over proving intent rather than extreme idiocy. But that just pertains to degree on innocence. No one knows all the facts yet. If we are judge and jury off a video we have a screw loose.

Just Living

Cop Buddy of Mine

No Gun
No Gun | Source

Get Ready

So we can see that defunding may just drive this qualified immunity to higher levels not lower ones. What is reasonable for a poorly trained (no funding), with bad equipment, with no back up and a radio that only works part time is a far lower standard than that of today. If someone is doing the best they can under horrible conditions well the conditions are more to blame than the LEO. If you have 3 gangbangers coming at you in an alley and one has a knife and you are black and they are black and no backup for 5 minutes, what are you going to do? I do not know what I would do. But I do know that I would not want to die and that the qualified immunity would cover me even if I shot all three. That is one horrible likely outcome with defunding.

If you do not like LEOs or lawyers now just wait for it. They are going to ravage the entity and the councils and legislatures who go along with defunding.

Sanctuary cities will be interesting to watch. Now you drastically defund the Los Angeles police department of local and state funds. The department must look elsewhere. How about the feds. All the department need do is crack down on illegal immigrants and marijuana stuff. And ICE, FBI, DEA, SS, ATFB are all your best friends now. Who else is going to watch their back? And do not think for a second that the feds will not increase and mobilize. Sanctuary will not mean anything anymore because the feds will be making the arrests no need for notice by local LEOs.

So it is a crazy world out there. What is cool here is that a “solution” offered up by certain sectors will have the exact opposite effect on their issues. If it were not so sad it would be funny. Ah shoot it still is funny.

But there are some smart ones out there. They are proposing legislation to roll back the qualified immunity stuff so it is easier to hold cops accountable. But with defunding all will be for not. I can still hardly wait to write my check to Antifa for my police protection. Hey can they be held accountable?

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    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Police Chiefs are appointed and not elected. No system to automatically get rid of problematic LEOs. Too strong of unions. Incompetent leadership. (see the Peter Principal) Lack of enough finance for continued education and automatic 3rd party counselors.

      I would say that with all that I would not insure a police department.

      Time to reform for certain.

      When I got my physical security graduation papers I knew we were in big trouble.

    • PAINTDRIPS profile image

      Denise McGill 

      13 months ago from Fresno CA

      It is a crazy world, I agree. I also think you have a good point there, defunding insurance. I don't know much about the plans for defunding police but as I understand it, they only began building up equipment like tanks and militia equipment after 9/11. It was meant to prepare for terrorist attacks. But the police are now using that equipment on our own unarmed citizens peacefully protesting, not terrorists. That's where things go sideways.

      Blessings,

      Denise

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Nythia I appreciate you comment. When I looked at buying a house I actually looked at schools and law enforcement/crime in the area. We really respect LEO in my house and street and it is returned.

    • Mel Carriere profile image

      Mel Carriere 

      13 months ago from Snowbound and down in Northern Colorado

      Actually Eric, as a letter carrier I am a member of the NALC, not APWU, but you get points for trying.

      As of right now, the Postal Service is still self funded, although we are looking for a handout to help keep us afloat and the big orange is reluctant to do it.

      You are right that deweeding the garden is made problematic by Unions. Bad cops and bad mailmen get protected and reinstated. Being a model of virtue and integrity myself they have never had to go to bat for me, but the bad apples they allow to fester here really stink the place up.

    • boxelderred profile image

      greg cain 

      13 months ago from Moscow, Idaho, USA

      We need police. Some police need policing. Both are true. The quandary, of course, is how to police the police without other unintended consequences. Defunding is the nuclear option that should forever remain off the table.

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Mel let me confess something here. When they say men in blue I think of postal workers. Which brings us to unions. That big city around us has a pOlice union that stops the gods -- democrats get the endorsements. The unions will stop us from reform and the democrats will not push too hard. Democrats need that endorsement - now that will be fun to watch.

      Hey you should write/right up a piece on your APWU. There is another ridiculous notion of defunding you guys. Lunacy!

      All we now is an Al Capone Union like in Chicago.

      Unions are fun but anyhow that is the impediment to pulling up weeds.

    • Vellur profile image

      Nithya Venkat 

      13 months ago from Dubai

      Interesting and informative article about "Defunding and Qualified Immunity Together". What is happening today leaves us confused, stunned, and scared about law enforcement.

    • Mel Carriere profile image

      Mel Carriere 

      13 months ago from Snowbound and down in Northern Colorado

      "But regardless of getting all hysterical over matters right now it is a good time to slow down and try to understand the nuances of what is being spoken about."

      I appreciate your appeal to logic, but why do that when throwing the baby out with the bathwater then having to fix it later would be so much more fun?

      I don't have the answers. I know there are bad cops, but would I want to live in a neighborhood without any? No thank you. Why don't we just start with pulling out the bad cops from the garden like weeds? They won't be hard to identify.

      Good job on phrasing this in language that won't start a riot. I don't want to see the Sprung Valley go up in flames.

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Linda here are some known factors;

      Ratting on a fellow

      Own culpability

      Mental/emotional disorders - covered up

      The clear outside factors;

      Make department look bad

      Unions

      In the press

      Loss of funding

      civil unrest

      Increase in insurance.

      And then there are unique circumstances such as a ongoing undercover operation or something like it would reveal a vulnerable party.

      It is quite interesting and the second problem of two or more bad cops together.

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Right on the money Ann. Yes I am against corporal punishment once in custody. I get it and used to support it.

      When I visited Great Britain the vibe was like my hometown. Peaceful compared to....

    • Carb Diva profile image

      Linda Lum 

      13 months ago from Washington State, USA

      Eric, there are bad apples in every profession but you don't toss out the entire basket because there is one rotten one in the bunch. But how do you weed out the ones who really shouldn't be there? Are the police unions too strong? Is the fear of internal retaliation the problem?

    • annart profile image

      Ann Carr 

      13 months ago from SW England

      That must be an interesting and complicated study. I'm not an advocate of capital punishment but I can understand why sometimes it seems the only solution.

      All this aggression around at the moment worries me; the whole world is stirred up and that breeds desperation and excess.

      Yes, we used to have the 'bobbies' walking 2 x 2 and it seemed to work!

      Ann

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Thank you for sharing that Mary, it is very interesting. It reminds us just how complicated it is.

      The cop friend lives in a communist country and it is all different.

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Hi Ann. I am studying "Justified" and "excusable" and "negligent" homicide.

      The sad fact is that sometimes people should be treated as they should be and that is shooting them.

      I think walking the beat would be a vast improvement. Of course it would be sending them out 2X2.

    • aesta1 profile image

      Mary Norton 

      13 months ago from Ontario, Canada

      When I first arrived in Canada, I was afraid of the police. I did not trust that they would do the right thing as that was my previous experience although where I came from they could be bribed so that made it easy if you have the resources or the connections. My husband always assured me that the police in Canada were so well paid they would not dream of jeopardizing that by being unfair. In fact, when I first arrived here, the police did not go around with guns. What we saw on tv about what's happening in the U.S. is really concerning.

    • annart profile image

      Ann Carr 

      13 months ago from SW England

      Much of this is a mystery to me as we don't have such laws in Britain. However, what I see on the television often (not just recently) is rather a brutal way of working within the police of the USA. Ours look like pussycats in comparison!

      The bottom line for me is that we are treated as we should be, even if we have done something wrong, unless our actions are threatening others, in which case force should be used but as much or as little as is necessary.

      The funding side here is equally pertinent. If the government cuts police funding, takes them out of walking round towns (as they did years ago) and doesn't give them enough to do their job, then we have a huge problem.

      Ann

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Flourish I like your attitude and perspective. In a previous life I was the one getting pummeled. Those Bubba LEOs used the other oath - you lie and I will stick to it.

      I doubt there was a budget to train them well.

    • FlourishAnyway profile image

      FlourishAnyway 

      13 months ago from USA

      I support the existence of police as necessary authorities in a society today, but they need to be better and more consistent at their jobs. I’ve lived in country areas and have witnessed backwoods Bubba cops get pretty intense over nothing. Also, Their police unions need to stop protecting illegal, nefarious behavior at any cost.

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Hi Marlene, like the COVID deal it does not smack my home much. We have not had a crime or cop on my street for about 3 years. So it is not us suburbanites that need to worry but the base of the folks yelling for no cops. I see it is curbing a bit today. Phew.

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      KC you have an excellent point. I think that means a lot to cadets and rookies and good cops. It does very little for the mentally/emotionally unstable. Unions and other cops know these guys. But the more important oath is to never turn on a "fellow" cop.

    • MarleneB profile image

      Marlene Bertrand 

      13 months ago from USA

      I keep thinking about the people who make these laws... you know... the ones who have full security detail surrounding and protecting them, yet they want to defund the police force, leaving the rest of us unprotected... naked and afraid.

    • profile image

      KC McGee 

      13 months ago from Where I belong

      Hi Eric. Here the big problem I see between a Sworn police officer and a private police force. LEO are required to take the Oath upon completing LEO training to be a police officer.. To my knowledge there is no requirement of individuals who are members of a private police force or security officers to take an Oath. This can be a real issue in many cases.

      Great article Eric. Enjoyed it very much

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Ruby here are two programs involved in funding voids. The folks who process immigration and some Head start programs.

      Both New York and California cut the budgets and wiped out health department budgets to prepare for disasters such as COVID. That obviously is a service we Need.

      So they see it as, we need the police just not as many or as many well trained.

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Thank you for visiting Pamela. I actually think that folks who actually get the consequences are talking. The screamers and radicals on either side just don't get it.

    • always exploring profile image

      Ruby Jean Richert 

      13 months ago from Southern Illinois

      Who knows what will happen? I read your thoughts and wondered how can they defund any organization that the people need?

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      So true Manatita, talk about muddying the waters -- the price we pay for elections so frequently.

    • Pamela99 profile image

      Pamela Oglesby 

      13 months ago from Sunny Florida

      This is a very intresting article considering all that is happening in our country at this time. I do think we need the police. Maybe some changes need to be made. Why can't people sit down and talk about those changes? Great article, Eric.

    • manatita44 profile image

      manatita44 

      13 months ago from london

      Hope it all settles peacefully. yet - as you know - you are in an election year. Daeuna Nasli (Let us pray)

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Manatita, thanks for coming by. This piece is really quite droll but timely with out current riots and such.

    • Ericdierker profile imageAUTHOR

      Eric Dierker 

      13 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Bill it is not always pretty but in our decades we have seen a lot of good growth. Leftover spaghetti here. I here you go rain -- we have 102.

    • manatita44 profile image

      manatita44 

      13 months ago from london

      Seems to be a passionate piece! A little out of my league, but I guess it must be in response to something recent. So sorry I know very little here. May it work out all right.

    • billybuc profile image

      Bill Holland 

      13 months ago from Olympia, WA

      I'm hungry and I want lunch, and this article is holding me back from that, so let's get to it.

      I don't much like the idea of living in a society without police, so I'll pass on that option. I do like living in a society where all things are looked at closely, and alternatives are always considered and debated. To me that's cool. Sigh! I think I'll go eat my pot pie and ponder it all some more.

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