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Gay People, The Supreme Court, and Equal Civil Rights

Updated on July 1, 2015

Disclaimer

In the following paragraphs, I describe the physical aspects of gay people. I don't intend it to be in any sense of the word derogatory. It is meant to point out the difference between gay and straight people and to make a point that they are born with a predisposition to these difference. It is not a choice on their part.

Equality for All
Equality for All | Source

Meet Kate

In all of my years on this planet, I have met many gay people. I have a niece Kate, who as a little girl cried whenever her mother made her dress up in girly clothes. She was always more comfortable in cowboy clothes and guns with a holster than dolls and frilly things. As a young lady she married a very nice man and their marriage was annulled shortly thereafter. A very short time later, she came out as a lesbian and introduce us to her partner. She is currently a lineman for Southern California Edison and is very happy. I have to say she has many masculine features and behaviors.

Meet Trish

When I worked at Sony, I worked with a lady named Trish. We had many conversations with her about her and her lesbian partner. She told me that as soon as she could talk, she told her mother to take her to the hospital and make her a man. She also has many masculine features and behaviors.

Neighbors

I had two neighbors who were also gay, one was a gym teacher and the other was a chiropractor. One was built like a truck driver walked like one and the other was more feminine. They got along very well and were very helpful and friendly with others in the neighborhood.

Meet my Son

I have a 45 year old son who came out two years ago. He always seemed uncomfortable around females who were attracted to him. He is drop dead handsome and flies 747s all over the world. I think that might have something to do with the attraction aspect. He lived in Alaska as a bush pilot for many years and we knew that he was living with women, but there never seemed to be a real connection to the opposite sex. It was more a matter of convenience for sharing a place to live. When he came out, he told us that he was tired of hiding and living a life that was not really his and he wanted to share his life with someone.

After he came out, he introduced us to his partner. They are now living in Chicago and are very happy. We are happy as well, because he is happy. Again, his partner is slight of build and has feminine behaviors.

You Can't Pray Away the Gay and Therapy Won't Work

So why am I telling you all of this? The point I'm trying to make is, I don't believe gay people have a choice as to being gay or straight. They are born with a certain predisposition that not only affects them mentally, but in some cases physically. I don't know if it is in their DNA, but they are wired differently than straight people are. You can't pray away the gay or send them to therapy to change them. It just simply isn't going to work.

Nature never does anything in a straight line. If it did, we would all look alike and every species in nature would also look alike. The only constant in the universe is change. Even our culture is changing today. In the 1950s, I was in the Air Force and spent part of my career in Biloxi Mississippi and Valdosta Georgia. It was a time of deep segregation and prejudice. I remember the signs that separated blacks from whites for toilets, drinking fountains, and public transportation. Today, for the most part, we have evolved into a society that accepts other races and cultures. I believe there are still some areas of residual prejudice though.

Hollywood and the Media

I believe that Hollywood and the media have played a big part in the acceptance of not only racial differences, but also sexual difference. Movies are made today that show different races sexual persuasions in intimate relationships. T.V. shows like Modern Family, Glee, and others show gay people in various situations that have helped to bring acceptance and understanding of gays and their issues.

The Supreme Court in Session with Ted Olsen Presenting his argument
The Supreme Court in Session with Ted Olsen Presenting his argument | Source

The Supreme Court and DOMA

When I first wrote this article, the Supreme Court was deliberating the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). On June 26, 2015, they passed the Marriage Equality Act which supersedes DOMA. The following paragraph is just for reference now that the Marriage Equality Act has been passed.


The Supreme Court is currently deliberating about whether they should rule the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) as unconstitutional. Whatever their ruling is, the real issue is not about the sanctity of marriage between only heterosexual couples and their children. The real issue is one of equal civil rights at the federal level.

Case Study

My wife worked for an estate attorney who did trusts. She told me the story of a couple who had been together for many years. One partner was in the hospital for a terminal condition. The hospital would not allow the partner to visit the other partner in the ICU because she was not next of kin. They said she had no legal right. When she passed away, she was not able to inherit any of her partner's property and assets. It all went to the next of kin, even though there was a trust established. She could have inherited it however, if she could come up with the funds to pay the estate tax, which was several thousands dollars. If they were a legally married couple, it would have been zero. As a result, she was left with nothing.

Now with the passing of the Marriage Equality Act, gay people who get legally married will not ever have to face this situation again. However, there are those with certain religious convictions who refuse to grant licenses to gays. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

Legal Library
Legal Library | Source

Legal Civil Rights

It's about legal civil rights of people who live together and should be given the same legal rights as married couples. If they have children, it gives the children their legitimate rights as well. When 50% of marriage ends in divorce, who is to say having same sex parents is better or worse than heterosexual parents. There are 1,138 benefits, rights and protections provided on the basis of marital status in Federal law.

The following link is a summary of several categories of federal laws contingent upon marital status.

http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/an-overview-of-federal-rights-and-protections-granted-to-married-couples

Comments

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    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      6 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Gay marriages didn't solve anything, and marriage shouldn't be a federal status for taxes.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      7 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Mike

      I said this was a solution, I didn't say it exists. And instead of spending the millions to get all the way up to SCOTUS to get same sex marriage, it could have been spent to get personal partnerships. Remember this was a federal government created problem with their Income Tax marital status. Which is not equal to other statuses for income tax.

      Do you have any comments on my solution? Is it better or worse than same sex marriage? The details of my solution are in my new hub.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      7 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Mike

      I just wrote a hub on the personal partnership that would replace the married tax status.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      7 weeks ago from Placentia California

      Brad: I don't know enough about "personal partnership" to comment on it.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      7 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Mike

      I said this was a solution, I didn't say it exists. And instead of spending the millions to get all the way up to SCOTUS to get same sex marriage, it could have been spent to get personal partnerships. Remember this was a federal government created problem with their Income Tax marital status. Which is not equal to other statuses for income tax.

      Do you have any comments on my solution? Is it better or worse than same sex marriage?

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      7 weeks ago from Placentia California

      Brad: I can't find anything on personal partnerships. However, I did find articles on domestic partnerships. But they are still not recognized as legal at the federal level.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      7 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Alan

      "First, immigration in the State of Tasmania is governed by the Laws of the Commonwealth of Australia, it's a Federal matter. But I fail to see why you have broached the subject here."

      B: Australia supports and protects its borders, thanks to the democrats in this country, we have open borders. The contrast between your country and ours is different, but you seem to side with the democrats here, no matter how you say you don't.

      ------------------------------

      Now, Brad, you keep talking about "the Government," saying I have chosen to ignore what you have said. Yes, I do choose to ignore rants about what the Government has/has not done. Because I see the problem is with the prejudice and personal agenda of people - whose minds make up the influence of government.

      B: See you didn't have to call it a rant. Once again, you don't understand!

      ---------------------------------------------

      The religious mindset in your country seems to be so strong and influential that it directs and manipulates government disproportionally. And it is the often ignorant and prejudiced religious objectives which drive government decisions.

      B: I didn't use any religious influence when I gave my comment, so don't attach it to my comments. Your comment is also vague, ambiguous and without any reference much less any substantiation to make the statement.

      -------------------------------

      I submit it's that relgious mindset which is pulling you country down into the mud and will ultimately tarnish our entire world.

      B: This is another vague, ambiguous, no foundation, fact less and without any reference to make it meaningful.

      -------------------------------

      Go ahead, strive to get your government doing the right thing, as you see it. But your efforts will not achieve much against bigots who feel they have Gard on their side."

      B: Again, Alan?

      -------------------------------

      Mike

      "It's about legal civil rights of people who live together and should be given the same legal rights as married couples. If they have children, it gives the children their legitimate rights as well. When 50% of marriage ends in divorce, who is to say having same sex parents is better or worse than heterosexual parents. There are 1,138 benefits, rights and protections provided on the basis of marital status in Federal law."

      I gave you the solution for a totally equal rights that gives everyone the same footing without invoking the changing of marriage. The government has caused this rift in society making marriage a social issue that need not be invoked. Simply replace the marriage status in the Income Tax with a personal partnership giving the same rights and benefits as marriage does today.

      But you totally ignored it. Why?

      There is no constitution right to marriage in the constitution. And there can be nothing more equal than and two people forming a personal partnership to satisfy the income tax status. A personal partnership is far better than an implied marriage contract, and the unequal treatment applied in family court. The personal partnership contract has put all the conditions, and remedies, and includes how to dissolve the corporation. The marriage contract has implied conditions and dissolution that haven't been equally applied to both parties because it is at the discretion of the judge. But the judge doesn't have discretion when they have to enforce a written, legal and binding contract that doesn't have to assume anything because it is already in the contract.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      7 weeks ago from Tasmania

      First, immigration in the State of Tasmania is governed by the Laws of the Commonwealth of Australia, it's a Federal matter. But I fail to see why you have broached the subject here.

      Now, Brad, you keep talking about "the Government," saying I have chosen to ignore what you have said.

      Yes, I do choose to ignore rants about what the Government has/has not done. Because I see the problem is with the prejudice and personal agenda of people - whose minds make up the influence of government.

      The religious mindset in your country seems to be so strong and influential that it directs and manipulates government disproportionally.

      And it is the often ignorant and prejudiced religious objectives which drive government decisions.

      I submit it's that relgious mindset which is pulling you country down into the mud and will ultimately tarnish our entire world.

      Go ahead, strive to get your government doing the right thing, as you see it. But your efforts will not achieve much against bigots who feel they have Gard on their side.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      7 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Alan

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      7 weeks ago from Tasmania

      With respect, Brad, it is now Sunday morning here in Tasmania. A lovely day for me to get out and enjoy it.

      I wish you a good week end.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      7 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Alan

      You missed my point again.

      "I agree that the Bi- bit is a choice. It's not an orientation that I personally feel comfortable with, but it's not for me to judge those who make that choice.

      B: That is a choice by definition, so how do we know the rest is also not a choice. Again, my problem is the government, and I already gave that answer but you chose to ignore it.

      ----------------------------------

      You make fair comment about removing same-gender from the term "marriage." Provided those relationships are not deprived of their fair treatment in tax and legacy matters. Neither governments nor believers have the right to interfere in cases of loving partnerships.

      B: My comment was to remove the word marriage and replace it with Personal Partnership, and you ignored it.

      ------------------------------------

      Your insistance on the biological nature of sex I find unnecessary and discriminatory. Our species is not the only one in which same-sex bonds can and do occur. What is the problem? Two people have some fun. That fun is part of the bonding process. What that fun consists of is none of anyone's business but their's, and in most cases that fun will be privately indulged. You and I will never know for sure what they "get up to."

      B: Government! And no species can survive without procreation, and unless it is asexual it needs a complimentary partner.

      ------------------------------------

      Individuals in strong, stable partnerships can and do contribute hugely to their community in productive ways - regardless of genders.

      B: No known group has that kind of partnership, in 1970 the divorce laws changed to irreconcilable differences, then the marriages started to fail, and this will continue to happen regardless of gender.

      --------------------------------------

      So, let's live and let live. Each of us get on with our own lives and stop dictating to others our particular prejudice. Otherwise we are simply bullies."

      B: How many times do I have to mention Governments and Personal Partnerships would leave government to just enforce a written contractual relationship.

      ------------------------------------

      B: Do you also think that the US should allow illegal aliens into the country just by crossing an open border? Or should all people go through the legal process as they do in Tasmania?

      "In order to migrate to Tasmania, you can apply for following visas:

      Skilled Independent Subclass 189

      Skilled Nominated Subclass 190

      Skilled Regional (Provisional) Subclass 489

      Applicants must meet both the Department of Immigration and Border Protection requirements and the Tasmanian Government state nomination requirements in order to be eligible for state sponsored visas including, but not limited to, meeting a skills assessment against specified occupations, having a recognised level of English language abilities, and meeting a minimum score on the Department of Immigration and Border Protection’s ‘Points Test’."

      I have now repeated myself in this third response.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      7 weeks ago from Tasmania

      Ok.

      I agree that the Bi- bit is a choice. It's not an orientation that I personally feel comfortable with, but it's not for me to judge those who make that choice.

      You make fair comment about removing same-gender from the term "marriage." Provided those relationships are not deprived of their fair treatment in tax and legacy matters. Neither governments nor believers have the right to interfere in cases of loving partnerships.

      Your insistance on the biological nature of sex I find unnecessary and discriminatory. Our species is not the only one in which same-sex bonds can and do occur. What is the problem? Two people have some fun. That fun is part of the bonding process. What that fun consists of is none of anyone's business but their's, and in most cases that fun will be privately indulged. You and I will never know for sure what they "get up to."

      Individuals in strong, stable partnerships can and do contribute hugely to their community in productive ways - regardless of genders.

      So, let's live and let live. Each of us get on with our own lives and stop dictating to others our particular prejudice. Otherwise we are simply bullies.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      7 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Alan

      You didn't get my point. My problem with same sex is bringing in the government to make laws based on a social issue. And my arguments about Same Sex are not based on religion, they are based on biology and the complimentary opposite M F to accomplish procreation.

      The LGBTX is not based on fact, it is based on opinions. If you can't test LGBTx to determine that people are born that way, then it is a choice. And how can you deny that B of the LGBTx is a choice by definition?

      The only premise I am making is based on science, biology and logic.

      If you want to treat same sex as I suggest as a genetic defect by its deviance from the norm such as 6 toes, conjoined bodies, and other abnormalities then we are on the same page, otherwise you are making your own rules.

      And once again it does matter, when you bring in the government.

      They failed to solve the issue of pro choice versus pro life by not declaring when life begins as judicial notice. Once again, not a religious issue for me.

      The government didn't solve the issue of same sex, they just made a decision. Most of the SCOTUS decisions, but their worst decisions are 5-4.

      I even proposed to Mike a paradigm that would help same sex and hetero sex but it fell on deaf ears. Removing Marriage from the government, and replacing it with a Personal Partnership. There is no right in the US constitution for marriage, it became on the same level as anything that is licensed, but then the federal government added the complexity of making marital status imbued with hundreds of benefits and obligations.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      7 weeks ago from Tasmania

      Further, concentrating on the supposition of there being a "designer" of our world, inevitably supposes that designer has at least some human attributes.

      If that is the way judgments are placed upon the natural processes of biological reproduction, then I must question whether you are thinking freely from your own mind; or subject to the institutional thinking of a church.

      Or another of the major world religions.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      7 weeks ago from Tasmania

      Are you saying that "Same sex is just an unnatural deviation from the norm and it is a minority in the world" and ..... ?

      I am saying that whether one regards it as a natural or unnatural deviation from the norm, it does not matter. It has no bad effect upon our human society in general, because it will always be in the minority anyway.

      The only thing that does have a very bad effect on society in general is the harsh physical and/or mental cruelty piled on the heads of those who are homosexual .... by others who through ignorance or dogma choose to inflict that cruelty.

      Often it is individuals who profess to be under the wing of a loving, caring, benevolent spirit, that throw the most stones. They live in ignorance.

      When everyone has stopped throwing stones then just maybe everyone will be straight.

      Before that, pigs will learn to fly.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      7 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Alan

      Wars, diseases, suicides, murders all reduce the population and they are part of human nature. Same sex is just an unnatural deviation from the norm and it is a minority in the world. Procreation is what keeps a species alive. Once again, male and female are complimentary by design, male male, female female is not a design is it.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      7 weeks ago from Tasmania

      Must we all subscribe to just one, or at least to the majority view of masculinity?

      Yes, in our own species and most of the other greater apes, survival of the fittest does depend upon a strong, resolute male with plenty of physical and sexual prowess.

      The Superb Blue Wren which is endemic to much of southern Australia including Tasmania, is interesting.

      From an early-season brood, by the alpha cock and hen, the adolescent males remain behind to help in rearing the next brood; while the young females must leave and search for a mate, to build her own new family.

      Our own species seems to be over-populating the planet, in many areas thus depleting resources.

      Thus I see great potential for same-gender couples helping to raise youngsters in stable, supportive homes. They would benefit the planet greatly.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      7 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Mike

      I would be helpful, if you stated why it won't work.

      My major point about Homosexuality is bringing in the government to make it a federal issue. Marriage was in the domain of the states, and it only should have belonged there as a religious ceremony. But then the federal government made it a tax status, and that only happen in 1913 with the passing and implementation of the Income Tax.

      That is why, I mentioned the partnership to replace marriage for tax purposes, and the 1100 federal benefits. The partnership is true equality, and it takes the government out of capriciously deciding divorces, as the partnership agreement defines dissolution as well as all other conditions.

      The SCOTUS and its 5-4 decisions just don't solves the issues, they just produce decisions. Like Roe v Wade their decision has been the continuing issues at each election for more than 44 years.

      The SCOTUS in Roe v Wade didn't make judicial notice of when life begins, and that fact is the basis of all the pro life, and pro choice conflicts. And they have misused the 14th amendment there is no such thing as equal rights, at best is equal opportunity.

      Remember it wasn't the 14th amendment that stopped slavery, and it wasn't the reason why Black men were allowed to vote, and it wasn't the reason why women got to vote. If the 14th amendment really meant equal rights, it should have prevented the necessity of these two basic equality issues from having to require the 15th and the 19th federal constitutional amendments.

      Today, there is no definition of when life begins, and there is no test that proves homosexuality. Making laws and court decisions doesn't change the facts, it just becomes the law of the land, and how many times has that been wrong?

      Alan

      You need to watch some nature shows. Nature not only depends on procreation, it goes one better requiring the offspring to be the best producer. That is why the male of the species will fight all other contenders to see who gets to procreate with the females. The others might become homosexual but I doubt it. Homosexuality is masturbation with the wrong same equipment. That is a fact not an opinion. Once again, I don't care what they do, I care they brought in big brother, and that is never a good thing.

      You can't bring religion into politics, and that is what homosexuality issues are politics.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      8 weeks ago from Tasmania

      "What is the explanation that accounts for a different non biological approach?"

      I doubt if most people who engage in sexual encounters will be doing it specifically and intentionally to make a child. Most, I suggest, will be doing it because it's fun and gives a lot of pleasure. Regardless of whether the parties are hetero- or homo-sexual.

      Is that fun-factor built into our DNA? Or call it the pleasure-pressure. This is most obviously the over-riding driver in every animal species on earth. As far as we know, there is no ability in any other species to make a choice to have intercourse in order to produce offspring. We humans have the mental faculty to make that deliberate choice. But our over-riding driver is also Pleasure-Pressure.

      Even those with ultra-religious desire to find no pleasure in it are likely to be eaten up with guilt for having enjoyed it. But then they can at least thank their Maker for building pleasure into his blue-print.

      Adam and Eve were on to a good thing before that nasty reptile messed it up and made them wear clothes!

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      8 weeks ago from Placentia California

      Brad: You are right. I am too emotionally involved because of my son and I'm not qualified to answer your questions. Maybe this will help. By the way, your Mayo Clinic link doesn't work.

      https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2015/jul/...

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      8 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Mike

      "Brad: It is not their opinion. It is no more of an opinion than a heterosexual saying they are straight. I'm assuming you are a straight. Is it your opinion?

      B:

      It is not an opinion, it is biology 101. There are only two human genders, and the Male and the Female are complimentary for the purpose of procreation. Without procreation the world wouldn't have over 7 billion people today and growing. It is not a coincidence that they are complimentary is it. That justifies and substantiates my statement.

      What is the explanation that accounts for a different non biological approach?

      -------------------------------

      How can you have it both ways when you say it is a genetic defect, but can't be proven by DNA? Therefore, how can you prove it is a malfunction in the copying process if it can't be proven by DNA? You supposition is, if it can be proven in the DNA, then it must be a choice. Your logic is circular.

      B:

      A gene mutation is a change in or damage to a gene. A mutation can be inherited or acquired during your lifetime as cells age or are exposed to certain chemicals. These changes in your DNA can result in genetic disorders.

      [Search domain www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/genetic-testing/multimedia/genetic-disorders/sls-20076216] https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/geneti...

      That substantiates my opinion, straight couples that can't procreate could also be from a genetic defect or some malfunction that can't be fixed. The purpose of the two and only two genders is to procreate, but it doesn't mean that they have to procreate, just that they can procreate.

      ------------------------------------------

      Mike

      This is personal to you, I am looking at it for the facts. And the fact is that without a way to prove the assertion that one is gay and has no choice in being gay then we need more than their word. If the government and the politics were not in play, I wouldn't care what any two people do about sexual orientation. But when the government uses and misuses marriage that isn't right.

      I have said before that marriage should have remained a religious ceremony, and the tax consequences of Marriage Status should be removed. If you want equality then replace the tax marriage status with a Limited Person Partnership. Instead of marriage and its vague vows, a partnership like any partnership would have the conditions and the reasons remedies for dissolution of the partnership written in a formal contract.

      That would make the divorce courts limited to enforcing the conditions of the partnership contract, instead of trying to administer equity by guessing. People that are gay or straight don't get the marriage benefits from the government if they don't get married. I think people would have more reasons to form the partnership than get married. Even though divorce was once in a court of equity, when there was two courts one of law, and one of equity they really do a bad job of it today, and that could be one of the reasons why so many people today don't get married.

      ---

      Did you even try to answer my question about BiSexuals and choice? By definition a bisexual has a choice, and how is that a problem? It is like a wild card in a card game, it can be any card they want it to be.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      8 weeks ago from Placentia California

      Brad: It is not their opinion. It is no more of an opinion than a heterosexual saying they are straight. I'm assuming you are a straight. Is it your opinion?

      How can you have it both ways when you say it is a genetic defect, but can't be proven by DNA? Therefore, how can you prove it is a malfunction in the copying process if it can't be proven by DNA? You supposition is, if it can be proven in the DNA, then it must be a choice. Your logic is circular.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      8 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Mike

      "Brad: The litmus test for gay people is when then come out. I do know that what they feel about being different is deep in their soul. It is not a choice. As Lady Ga Ga says in her song, "I Was Born This Way." I also know after they come out, it is a great relief as they no longer have to suffer the guilt from pretending to be someone they are not."

      B: Mike that is not a litmus test it is a declaration of their opinion.

      A litmus test would show proof, not feelings. If they were born that way, then it would be a genetic defect, like 6 toes, conjoined twins or birth defects. It is a malfunction in the copying process. OK, then explain why a Bisexual (LG 'B' T) is included. Does a bisexual not have a choice? If I said I was black would anyone accept my word, I don't think so, but that is what you want when they say they were born that way. In contrast, if Barack Obama said he was white, would you accept that without proof? Yet, that would be easy to prove with his DNA, but the DNA wouldn't prove Homosexuality would it?

      -------------

      Alan

      It does matter when you bring in the government and the constitution. Otherwise, I agree who cares, not me.

      ---------------------------------

      By the way, why did you decide to read this article that was posted years ago? Thanks for stopping by. I haven't seen you on the campus for quite a while.

      B: I was looking at articles that had some recent activity and this was one of them.

      --------------------------------

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      8 weeks ago from Placentia California

      Alan: I agree with you totally. Nature never does anything in a straight line. There is a continuum from straight to gay and everything in between. What is the scientific proof to know that one has different feelings deep in their soul?

      There is no litmus test. It's not as if there is a moment in time that signals that person is gay by what he or she says or does. It is up to the person to come out when they feel the conditions are appropriate for them to come out.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      8 weeks ago from Placentia California

      Brad: The litmus test for gay people is when then come out. I do know that what they feel about being different is deep in their soul. It is not a choice. As Lady Ga Ga says in her song, "I Was Born This Way." I also know after they come out, it is a great relief as they no longer have to suffer the guilt from pretending to be someone they are not.

      By the way, why did you decide to read this article that was posted years ago? Thanks for stopping by. I haven't seen you on the campus for quite a while.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      8 weeks ago from Tasmania

      My off-the-cuff answer is "does it really matter?"

      Personally I have never experienced heterosexual sex and never desired it. For many years I have described my self as "gay," yet that tells no one anything about me except what I have stated above ... and even that does not define me as "gay" or even homosexual.

      It certainly is no cause for anyone to think I am at loggerheads with their God. A just judgment can only be made when in possession of the facts.

      Choice and scientific proof are both evasive scapegoats for anyone wishing to make a judgment when they are not in possession of the facts - only imagination and bias (or rather, prejudice).

      IMHO.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad Masters 

      8 weeks ago from Orange County California BSIT BSL JD

      Mike

      Now we know why you favor gay marriages.

      BTW what is the litmus test for determining homosexuality? Do we just believe what the person says that it is not a choice or is there a scientific proof?

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Thank you so much for your comments and wishes for my son and his partner.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      2 years ago from Tasmania

      Wonderful hub, you and responders have said it better than I could.

      My best wishes to you son and his partner - hope love and life blossom for them.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      3 years ago from Placentia California

      Thanks Larry: I got all excited and shared it again without waiting for Catherine Giordano's latest reply. She suggested that I edit the hub and describe DOMA as history, but I did it in my comment instead. I think there are some people who can't deal with change who think the world is ending, because they still stand with their religious beliefs instead of the law of the land. It's interesting, if the law is in their favor, then they abide by the law, if it's not, they are willing to break the law based on their religious beliefs...fascinating. Thanks for the revisit.

    • Larry Rankin profile image

      Larry Rankin 

      3 years ago from Oklahoma

      Glad to revisit this hub after the new ruling.

      Hey, the U.S. has actually done something that isn't a**backwards for once, and miracle of miracles, the apocalypse hasn't begun and the world hasn't ended;-)

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      3 years ago from Placentia California

      This hub has a some information about the Defense of Marriage ACT (DOMA) which is no longer valid because of the Supreme Court ruling on Same Sex Marriage. However it does have a lot of material that is relevant today and some of my personal case studies to support gay rights. Therefore I'm sharing it.

    • CatherineGiordano profile image

      Catherine Giordano 

      3 years ago from Orlando Florida

      My suggestion--update it before you share. DOMA is history and marriage equality is law. Just add a capsule about the Supreme Court ruling and what it means and the reaction to it and make sure the other stuff is presented as history not current law. Get a quote from your son--that gives it human interest.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      3 years ago from Placentia California

      Catherine: Thank you so much for stopping by. I know this hub is out of date, but the essence of it is still relevant and gives the reasons to support the Supreme Court rulings. My son and his partner are very happy and it would be a sin to separate them. If they do get married, it will be a great relief for my wife and I to know they have the same legal, equal rights under the law as everybody else. Thank you for the voting. Also thanks for your reply to me on your hub. I think I will share this hub, even though it has the DOMA stuff in it.

    • CatherineGiordano profile image

      Catherine Giordano 

      3 years ago from Orlando Florida

      The supreme Court ruling gave gays marriage equality on 6/26/15. A few years from now, we will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. I hope you have a son-in-law in your family very soon. Voted up and interesting.

    • Larry Rankin profile image

      Larry Rankin 

      4 years ago from Oklahoma

      Congratulations. I am very happy for your family and your son:)

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      4 years ago from Placentia California

      I agree with you. I believe there is a continuum from maleness to femaleness and it goes from one extreme to other and everything in between. That's where a very small percentage of the homosexual community may be able to choose there preference. But you are right, as long as they are not harming anyone, live and let live. My son has just told us that he and his partner are engaged. I have to be quite frank with you. My first thought was, this can't be happening to me and my son. And then I thought, it's not about me. It's about him. If it makes him happy, I'm happy. Who am I to judge his lifestyle? I've met his partner and their friends and they seem to be a great bunch of people.

    • Larry Rankin profile image

      Larry Rankin 

      4 years ago from Oklahoma

      I agree with you, and perhaps I didn't write my thoughts well. I absolutely believe that 99% of the homosexual community is born how they are and there's a chance the other 1% may be too. I don't believe any of my homosexual friends had a choice in the matter. I was just pointing out that even if they did choose, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

      Graham Chapman, one of my favorites from Monty Python, liked boys and girls, so he conducted an experiment. He sat at a bus stop and counted the number of women he found attractive and the number of men. I think men won out like 6 to 4, and that decided it for him.

      The point I'm trying to make is that there may be a very small percentage of the homosexual community who can choose or there may not. It simply doesn't matter. We can be whoever we want to be regardless of the thought process or genetic disposition that leads us to it. We should just accept one another.

      Let me put it as a hypothetical question. Hypothetically if you could choose one or the other, even if such a scenario has never existed in the history of the human species, shouldn't you have the right to do so without persecution?

      I understand if you disagree with me on some aspects of the topic, but overall we're on the same side here. Equal rights for all our good citizens and freedom of choice, freedom of preference, freedom of genetic disposition.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      4 years ago from Placentia California

      Larry: You may be free to choose how your ice cream is topped off, but that is a far cry from people who feel they are sexually not attracted to the opposite sex. It is not an affliction. These are feelings that are deeply rooted at an early age and plague these people until they come out. Think of it as the difference between an Apple computer and a PC. They are both computers, but they have different operating systems. They both do the same things but in a different way. Neither system is wrong or afflicted, they are just different. Thanks for the comments.

    • Larry Rankin profile image

      Larry Rankin 

      4 years ago from Oklahoma

      Wonderful hub:

      I want to focus on the concept of whether or not homosexuality is a choice. I most certainly agree that it usually is not, but let's explore the concept that some people are wired in such a way that it is.

      Well, so what! Why do we get so hung up on whether it is a choice or not. We're supposed to live in a free country where we can do what we want, as long as we aren't hurting anybody. Whether your hetero or homosexual shouldn't hurt anybody.

      We say things like, "They didn't choose to be this way," like it's an affliction. So what if they did. More often than not I'll choose vanilla ice cream with chocolate sauce over strawberry ice cream with strawberry sauce. Is this an affliction? No. It's my choice and I'm free to make it.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      5 years ago from Placentia California

      Au fait: Yes, I believe all living things are variations on nature's game. All you have to do is look around you and see all the differences. When 50% of straight couples get divorced, who is to say what is better? There are times when the divorce has lasting effects on the children. in a sense, my son's situation could be a blessing in disguise. With his job as a air cargo pilot, he asked to fly all over the world at a moment's notice. This could place a great burden on him and his wife, if they were both straight couples. As it works out, as a couple they seemed to have an understanding of each other.

      As always, thank you for your understanding comments and sharing.

    • Au fait profile image

      C E Clark 

      5 years ago from North Texas

      There are in fact people who choose homosexual behaviors because they think it's cool, but in fact the vast majority of people who are homosexual do not choose that condition or situation, depending on how you wish to characterize it.

      In fact, the last time it was presented in one of my PSYC classes, about 10 years ago now, it was believed that the hormones that are part of the gestation process were either not timely, too many, or not enough, or varying these different options among fetuses. I know lots of homosexual people don't want to believe they are an accident of nature, but really, we all are, aren't we?

      Studies have in fact been done. Lots of them. Regarding whether children are harmed by being brought up in a home with homosexual parents. At that time the issue was adoption and these issues came up in the same PSYC class as mentioned above.

      The many studies determined that there were no more negatives in a homosexual home than in a heterosexual home, and that by and far children do better in a home with a family that loves and supports them than they do with no family at all, no close bonds, no support, and very little love or normalcy. It turns out homosexual people, both gay and lesbian, are just as able to love and care for a child and bring them up to be useful members of society as heterosexual couples are. Depending on the individuals involved, homosexual people may be better qualified. :)

      An excellent hub that will hopefully bring out the good in more people and help them to offer kindness and understanding instead of criticism.

      Voting up, useful, interesting, and will share and pin!

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      6 years ago from Placentia California

      Thank you jipark, well said. I think Walt wants me to be an investigative reporter and do surveys and provide statistics. If he wants to prove me wrong, then he should do the research. I think he can't accept that people are different and that I'm expressing my opinion based on my observations. If we were not allowed to express are feelings and opinions on hub pages, then a very large percentage of hubs would not be allowed. Thanks again for your comments and support.

    • jlpark profile image

      Jacqui 

      6 years ago from New Zealand

      Walt - I'm gay and I'm not bothered by it, so..whats the problem? Peoplepower said at the outset that he did not know what made people gay, hell science doesn't yet, and even gay people don't know - we say we are born this way, and most if not all of us are - but WHAT exactly is it that makes us this way? We're still scientifically trying to figure that out.

      People is merely trying to understand, and stick up for his son - being supportive - as all good parents should. He's merely trying to put his thoughts on the Supreme Court issue in relation to gay people as he knows them. And in doing that, he's done a good job.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      6 years ago from Placentia California

      Walt Kienia: This is what I said: "So why am I telling you all of this? The point I'm trying to make is, I don't believe gay people have a choice as to being gay or straight. They are born with a certain predisposition that not only affects them mentally, but in some cases physically. I don't know if it is in their DNA, but they are wired differently than straight people are. You can't pray away the gay or send them to therapy to change them. It just simply isn't going to work." The key phrase here is in the first sentence: "I don't believe."

      Why are you blowing everything I say out of proportion and putting down my hub? You didn't answer my questions as to how do you want me to conduct a sampling. How would you conduct it? Am I not allowed to state what I believe and have observed? If you were half way to the crapper with my hub, that means you take your computer into the toilet!

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      6 years ago from Placentia California

      Lady Guinevere: I agree with everything you said. It's interesting, there is a new phenomenon called the proximity effect. As more people are coming out, I see more politicians who are sympathetic with gays because the politician's gay children are coming out as well. When it is close to home, it makes a real difference. Thanks for the comments and the compassion.

    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 

      6 years ago from West By God

      I also can see the differences in their body language and such. Yes it is all about legal issues and the like. Hospitals will not allow a person whom is not family into a room that the patient has a serious condition. They will also not discuss their situation or even talk to a person whom is not related to them. That is one of the reasons they want rights. They have that right but some government officials and religious factions who don't "see" gays as being people with feelings and needs disregard this fact. That is the sad part. People need to be loved and people need a whole lot more compassion than what they have in this world.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      6 years ago from Placentia California

      This is what I said: In the disclaimer: In the following paragraphs, I describe the physical aspects of gay people. I don't intend it to be in any sense of the word derogatory. It is meant to point out the difference between gay and straight people and to make a point that they are born with a predisposition to these difference. It is not a choice on their part.

      I could have been more generalized, but in the next paragraph I qualified what I meant: "They are born with a certain predisposition that not only affects them mentally, but in some cases physically." The key operative here is "in some cases physically." And that is a truth that is based on my association with gays and observations.What do you want me to base it on, statistics, videos of gay people acting effeminate, or masculine? How many gay people have you ever been associated with?

      Comparing what I said to a "twit/Obama" is comparing apples to oranges. You are interpreting what I said and not actually quoting what I said.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      6 years ago from Placentia California

      Walt Kienia: I have an idea. Why don't you interview several gay people and ask them when was the first time they felt different?

      As far as your question goes, I think the jury is still out on how the states will handle this issue or what jurisdiction they will have. Again thanks for your comments.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      6 years ago from Placentia California

      RavenBiker: That's a great compliment. Thanks for dropping by.

    • RavenBiker profile image

      RavenBiker 

      6 years ago from Pittsburgh, PA.

      Yuh, know? I could have said it better myself! Voted up!

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      6 years ago from Placentia California

      thebiologyofleah: You are right. I think that point needs to be driven home. Politicians want us to focus on the sanctity of the union, not the equal rights for all. Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      6 years ago from Placentia California

      jlpark: I agree with you. Change is hard to make. But then again, the only constant in the universe is change. If institutions are not able to meet the needs of the people, then they will not be able to exist in their current form. That includes religious institutions as well as political institutions. It's not only me that my son is lucky to have but also his mother. She has been amazing in this situation. If as if we have another son-in-law. Thanks for your comments and dropping by.

    • thebiologyofleah profile image

      Leah Kennedy-Jangraw 

      6 years ago from Massachusetts

      Your example of the couple with one partner in terminal care is the point that really needs to be driven home to people as to why we need equality in marriage. It is unjust that the law does not view same-sex partners as a legal couple with the appropriate rights of a married pair.

      Thank you for sharing.

    • jlpark profile image

      Jacqui 

      6 years ago from New Zealand

      If only more people shared your view on this, PeoplePower, the world would be a much friendlier place. People dislike change, particularly when the rights being infringed upon are not theirs. Try infringing on theirs, and you get them screaming blue murder (much like their yelling when they are not allowed to let their hatred/ignorance dictate the law).

      Thank you for this hub - your son is a lucky man to have a father as understanding and supportive as you.

    • peoplepower73 profile imageAUTHOR

      Mike Russo 

      6 years ago from Placentia California

      HSchneider: Thanks for your comments. I hope this helps people understand that times are changing.

    • profile image

      Howard Schneider 

      6 years ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      I absolutely agree with you, Peoplepower73. This is a matter of human civil rights. The conservatives claim it to be states rights but they did so over slavery and Jim Crow also. Great Hub.

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