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Interviews with four convicted sexual predators --Part II

Updated on September 18, 2010

Wise words from a professional in the field

“My problem with the circus surrounding sex offenders:

We are persecuting a small number of people who are representative of larger problems in our culture. We hang their pictures on the wall to throw darts at; meanwhile, relatives are abusing children in probably 1 in 3 households in the U.S. We focus on the identified ones to the degree that families of those who are unidentified keep quiet so as not to put their loved ones and themselves into the public eye in such a disgraceful way.

So the girl whose uncle abused her will continue to keep quiet about it because of the circus she sees surrounding the offenders who are identified.

Our culture has sexualized and fetishized youth and glorifies power: a dangerous combination.

We should be trying to rehabilitate the culture and the offenders rather than finding more ways to ostracize them from the culture that produced them.

Children weren’t safe before the internet.”

-- A quote from a professional child protection worker sent to me second hand in response to Part I of this series. Although I don’t have a name to credit with these words, they certainly speak common sense.

Just between us ...

I never would have believed where this simple idea: interview a few of those convicted of heinous sex offences and see the crimes from a new perspective, that of the offender, as opposed to my long-held views based on years of work caring for the victims -- where it would take me, nor the diverse and sometimes heated responses the first part of this article received.

Some troubling new ideas surfaced while doing the background research. The focus of my statistical information was Florida, but my anecdotal material came from across the nation. I began to believe there were many people suffering life-destroying effects of registration undeservedly.

I also felt the law, in some respects, was not reflecting the truth of society's practices, and as we all know, morality cannot be legislated. Before anyone jumps on me for saying this, let me add I am not speaking of child molesters, of child sex abuse, of rapists, of incest-abuse, of violence, coercion, none of these monstrous acts, but of those whose crimes were in fact, victim-free in a way. The person who believes his alluring young partner to be 18 or 19, only to find out later, she/he was 15 or 16; the young adult of 20 or 21, young for their years, in a relationship with a partner of 15 or 16 mature for hers/his; those situations we all know to be common, but the law states as a crime -- a felony.

Do I condone underage sex? Does it matter if I, or anyone of you do or do not? -- it will go on as it always has, and there will be those who will suffer for being beyond a certain age limit. (And no, for those prone to jumping on such statements and going to extremes -- am I saying it's okay for a man of 40 to bed a girl of 14 -- of course not -- and you are well aware I am not!!) Certainly the law must set a limit, and must punish transgressors, but must it subject such cases to the destructive effects of the sex offenders' registry?

Should there not be 'different spanks for different ranks' of offenses? (something between nothing and 25 years on the registry, with all the life-damning effects of registration.)

But all these reactions from the previous article must now be put aside.

Except, because of them, and also due to what I found on interview, I've made a change. Unfortunately, the title had already been set in stone, but if I were able to start again, I would call it:

Interview with two convicted sexual predators, and two registered sex offenders

Categories of Sex Offenders

Level 1 Offenders, considered the least dangerous, determined to have a low likelihood of re-offending, with many first time offenders, make up the majority of the sex offenders in our society. The victims of these offenders are frequently family members or others living in the home of the offender. His or her crimes are not considered violent or predatory. In Florida, registered for 25 years.

Level 2 offenders have a moderate likelihood of re-offending and are considered somewhat of a threat to the community, may have more than one victim, or abuse occurring over a length of time, may groom their victims or use threats of violence to commit their crimes. These crimes may be considered predatory with the offender using a position of trust to gain control over the victim and have little to no empathy with the victims. In Florida, registered for 25 years.

Level 3 Offenders (Predators) are highly likely to re-offend. The offenses are likely to be predatory in nature and pose a potentially serious threat to our communities. Offenders in this category are likely to have multiple offenses and their crimes may involve violence, coercion and the use of weapons. In Florida, registered for life.

The Adam Walsh Act has removed the right for registered offenders to petition the court for removal from the list.

(For those readers who want names, file numbers, etc – not here. Sorry, but I’m not using anyone’s name.)

For three consecutive Wednesday’s I drove to the Sarasota County Offices, and there met with those law enforcement officers who kindly assisted me with this project, one a Deputy Sheriff, who we’ll call Deputy Dan (DD) and the other an officer with Florida Department of Corrections, who specializes in the supervision Predator designated offenders Level 3). We’ll call him Officer Lorne (OL).

On this particular Wednesday, we sat around for an hour, drinking coffee, while I asked questions, using my trusty recorder to ensure all answers are recorded here verbatim.

What is the real purpose of the sex offender registry – a tool for law enforcement, a control mechanism, punishment or a public service?

DD: The registry is first a way to make people aware of sex offenders in their area, so they can take steps to ensure theirs and their children’s safety.

OL: Within limitations -- most people are shocked at the number of registrants in their area. But looking at the registry doesn’t give someone context to tell if the offenders is really a danger or not. Not all sex offenders are alike, or pose a danger.

Does it work in reducing sex offenses?

DD: It is also a tool. When a child is missing, we know the names and location of those persons with a history of that kind of crime – for example.

Me: But according to statistics, over 95% of newly reported sex crimes are committed by someone without a record, and not registered. Isn’t this kind of like, “round up the usual suspects?”

DD: (laughs) Maybe, but numbers of reported sex crimes have dropped in recent years. Seems to me ... I think... Something’s at work here.

Me: I have the statistics for the past fifteen years here, and according to these reports, the decline started before Megan’s law came into effect. They dropped drastically when the Adam Walsh act was first applied – but --

OL: You’re about to quote a study suggesting fewer crimes are being reported because of the fear of the offender’s being subjected to the new and harsher regulations.

Me: Well, yes I was. As most sex offences are intra-familial, it stands to reason. My experience with victims suggests family love does not disappear through abuse. And often the victim is pressured by family members to remain silent, because the offender is the main financial support of the family, or for fear the family will be broken up.

OL: I believe this is certainly a factor – a strong factor and an unfortunate one.

What are the recidivism rates for sex offenders?

I found this report released a few years ago by the Department of Justice. It is a study based on convicted sex offenders who were released from prison in 1994.

Here are some of the findings from the study:

  • Within 10 years following their 1994 state prison release, 5.3 percent of sex offenders (men who had committed rape or sexual assault) were rearrested for another sex crime, the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) announced today. If all crimes are included, 43 percent of sex offenders were rearrested for various offenses.
  • Sex offenders were less likely than non-sex offenders to be rearrested for any offense –– 43 percent of sex offenders versus 68 percent of non-sex offenders. But sex offenders were about four times more likely than non-sex offenders to be arrested for another sex crime after their discharge from prison –– 5.3 percent of sex offenders versus 1.3 percent of non-sex offenders

Which proves what? The public perception that the majority of sex offenders are likely to re-offend seems to be false. 5.3% is an extremely low rate of recidivism -- lowest among all categories of offenders.

Does it stop offenders from re-offending?

DD: I think so. I think fear of the consequences might have a lot to do with it. I read somewhere that 50% of sex-offenders will re-offend.

OL: Sorry, D---- Not so. The rate of re-offense is quite low – I don’t have the figures here, but very low compared to other crimes. (laughs) I suppose you do.

Me: I do. A study of sex-offenders released in 1994 (so they wouldn’t be subject to registration as that started in 1997) shows just over 5% commit another sex-crime.

OL: So there it is. But – and this is a big but – there are those categorized as predators who we are sure pose the danger of repeating their crime. There’s your 5 percent. For those, supervision is necessary – you’re going to meet one this afternoon.

DD: Lucky you.

Me: Can’t wait.

Is it appropriate for level one, first time offenders considered not-a-danger?

Me: In my background research, I learned that many persons on the list for first time offenses are suffering a form of punishment which far outweighs the impact of the crime – and I don’t mean all, so don’t jump on me – but some.

DD: You can’t believe what these guys tell you. They all make light of their crimes; they all want you to believe they’re victims.

OL: He has a point, to be sure, but I do agree with you. There are not just some, but many who pose no danger to the community -- whose crimes had little negative impact on the victim -- whose lives have been adversely affected and ... I rarely see this category … Not my worry.

DD: Yeah – I give you that. There are some on the list I feel sorry for. Just regular Joes who got caught in a bad situation – an underage girl they met in a bar, for example. We do a compliance check on them, and end up losing them their job – it can be tough. But most of them belong where they are, and don’t you forget that – be careful who you believe.

Is it functional? What is the cost?

Me: I have in my hand a study by the New Jersey Department of Corrections and Rutgers University which examined the impact of Megan’s Law in that state. They found registries and notification did not reduce the number of new offenses or new victims, and concludes – here I’ll read it to you. “given the lack of demonstrated effect of Megan's law on sexual offenses, the growing costs may not be justifiable." They estimated the statewide cost in New Jersey to be at least $5.1 million a year. What is your take on that?

DD: I can’t argue with your study, and I agree that almost all sex-crimes we deal with are new offenders, so maybe it’s right. But I can tell you the cost is a problem. It’s our department charged with registering, verifying and publishing where sex offenders live -- we have to pay for extra deputies, cars for them to drive, compliance visits, keeping up the website – and the entire cost falls on this office… At the same time, everyone wants to cut budgets.

OL: Those under Department of Corrections supervision are the worst of the lot. Those numbers are less than one tenth the overall population of offenders. We work in conjunction with the Sheriff’s Department, and I can state they are severely overburdened in this task.

Me: Would it make more sense, then, not to register those that do not pose a danger and concentrate on those that do?

DD: No.

OL: Yes.

Me: Thank you both for your time and for allowing me to talk with you.

Then, Deputy Dan agreed to my change of plans, and would arrange for me to talk to a couple of Level I registered offenders, including a Tampa case I wanted to cover who had got in touch with me via email following Part I of this article. Or, as he said, “I’ll fly it by the Sheriff up there and ask – shouldn’t be a problem.”

Officer Lorne and I departed for our rendezvous with two sexual predators. We took his car and talked more on the way – but if I cover all that, this would become a book.

Interview number one – male, Caucasian, 48 – we’ll call him “Sorry”

Sorry lives in an older house in one of Sarasota’s more venerable (read old) neighborhoods – and yes, more than 1,000 feet from any schools, playgrounds, day cares (but considering Sorry is ambulatory and a thousand feet is not much of a walk, I wonder at the efficacy of such a rule.)

He is well-groomed, keeps a neat house and greets both Officer Lorne and I with a handshake and an offer to “come in and take a load off.” We sat around his kitchen table – a clean and nicely appointed kitchen.

We all received a glass of ice tea, and I made a few comments about his garden – very lovely -- uncomfortable and unsure of how to start. I needn’t have worried. Sorry sat down, pulled my recorder in front of him and began to talk, not waiting for questions. This is the transcription, word for word.

Sorry: You’ve seen my file? (He didn’t wait for an answer.) I’m not going to tell you I’m innocent -- I did it -- it was wrong -- and I needed to be punished . (He cleared his throat and glanced at me.) I raped my daughter. This was the beginning, and my abuse went on for a time. I stopped it. When it was time to tell the truth, I did. I was glad too. I was tired of having us both lie about it. I saw what I was doing -- the mistakes we make! Don’t ask me why I did it; I can’t tell you.

I cried for months after I realized what I had done to her -- my family -- our lives. I am sorry, so sorry. I had only myself to blame. I did it. I accept the full blame, and do the best I can to live with the guilt. It’s hard – I know what I did and all I can say is I’m sorry. Doesn’t seem enough. But I am. (After this statement -- he pushed the recorder to me.)

Are all sex offenders with crimes against children pedophiles? No -- here is the difference.

The legal, law enforcement and public arena all define it differently.  There is a medical definition which defines pedophilia as a mental disorder characterized by symptoms of recurrent, intense sexual fantasies about children. Thus, legally, a pedophile is somebody who has these fantasies or sexual orientation.  Acting on those fantasies and sexual orientation will bring the pedophile into the criminal arena. 

A sex offender is somebody who commits a sexual offence against anybody.  This could include those who assault children as well but who are not pedophiles i.e. they do not have recurrent sexual fantasies about children or are sexually orientated towards children.  These offenders may simply have perpetrated the assaults against the children because the children are there and are extra vulnerable, or target adolescents who hold traits of both child and adult but are not threatening.   Most non-pedophile offenders offend against family members. Incest is a separate pathology, more related to issues of control and domination than sexual desire for children.

The difference is, perhaps, the level of pathology attached to the activity.  A pedophile notoriously rationalizes their behavior believing that the children are willing participants in the activity or that it is appropriate for children to be initiated into sexual activity. Pedophiles also have a very, very high recidivism rate because they daily grapple with intense urges to have sexual contact with children and are generally unresponsive to treatment which aims to alter their warped views about the appropriateness of this conduct.

Me: How old was your daughter when you first raped her?

Sorry: Fifteen.

OL: She was thirteen.

Sorry: Yeah – thirteen. I get confused, sorry. That’s right, thirteen.

Me: The one question everyone asks, is how could you do that to a child, your own child.What were you thinking when you did this act?

Sorry: I don’t know – can’t recall. I was mad at her; she was hard to control, you know. Like she wanted to go out at night – I caught her climbing out the bedroom window late at night, and I got mad. We had a fight – like physical – me wrestling her down, like. Then it just happened.

OL: It didn’t just happen.

Sorry: Okay, I did it. My own kid – yeah. (He stared out the window.) Still hard to admit -- you know what I’m saying?

Me: Not really. (A quiet pause of about two minutes.) You said the abuse continued for quite a while – how long?

Sorry: A few months, I think.

OL: Two years.

Sorry: Yeah – she was fifteen when I got arrested, yeah. That’s why fifteen stuck in my mind. I’m not trying to snow you – honest. Just the details get confused in my mind after all these years. I own my crime – I own it. Every day I look in the mirror and see the face of a man who – did that – to his own daughter… Hard to take, to live with myself. You know what I’m saying?

Me: I understand you are saying you have regrets – you’re sorry. Is your daughter still in your life?

Sorry: Yeah – happy to say. It took a lot of work, but we both had counseling and finally we met again. I see her regularly now. She knows I’m sorry. I am so grateful she forgives me.

Me: Most child victims of incest do, in my experience.

Sorry: Yeah. Hard to believe – you know what I’m saying?

Me: Yes, I find it amazing. It seems the connection of children for their parents can overcome just about anything – again in my experience. I’m not here to take details of your crime – not really. Can we talk of something else?

Sorry: Sure.

OL: Before we move on, I think Mr. XX should be a little more forthcoming about his crime, and how he came to be arrested. You noted there are three offenses on his file. In all fairness, before you move on to his sentence and registration issues, you should know the extent of his –

Sorry: Yeah, okay. When my daughter turned fifteen, she ran away from home. She showed up in Miami – the cops – they found her on the street -- if you know what I’m saying.

Me: You’re saying your daughter was prostituting herself. (I wanted to cry for the poor girl – and realized no matter how much Sorry said sorry, he had no idea of what he’d done to his daughter. But it wasn’t my place to educate him. I kept my poker face)

Jacob Wetterling in whose memory the Wetterling Act of 1994 required a registry be kept for all offenders of crimes against children, or who commit violent sex crimes.
Jacob Wetterling in whose memory the Wetterling Act of 1994 required a registry be kept for all offenders of crimes against children, or who commit violent sex crimes.

Sorry: Yeah. My wife went down there to get her, and that’s when she told… So my wife called the cops. I was arrested. My wife kicked me out. I lost my family, drove my kid to the street … Yeah -- I think about that every day.

OL: The second charge?

Sorry: I was getting to that. My wife got my younger daughter to say I raped her, too. I didn’t – no -- rape her that is.

Me: Are you saying you had sexual contact other than penetration with your younger daughter?

Sorry: That’s a polite way of putting it.

Me: Are you saying yes?

Sorry: I touched her a little – maybe – but I didn’t hurt her.

Me: You -- How old was she?

Sorry: Three years younger. I wouldn’t – I’m a bastard, but I would never … I didn't rape her.

Me: Is she in your life now?

Sorry: No. She went up north with my wife. My older daughter moved back a couple of years ago, with her husband and kids. (He glances at OL) The kids don’t come here, though.

Me: What was your sentence?

Sorry: Six years incarceration, ten years supervision and lifetime registration.

Me: Are you employed?

Sorry: Yeah – like there’s a job out there for me. Of course not.

I no longer wanted to ask this man how registration affected his life, whether or not he considers himself a danger to the community, his difficulties in finding employment, how he managed to live. I wanted to leave, and to leave immediately. I thanked him for his time and ‘candor.’

Once in the car, OL handed me a report from his file case. According to a physical examination, Sorry’s younger daughter at twelve showed clear signs of early sexual activity. The victim’s statement declared she had been eleven when the sexual abuse had started, and it had begun with an act of penetration.

“There was also a question of two other victims, his wife’s ten year old niece and the younger victim said he’d ‘touched’ one of her friends, but the DA chose to proceed on the strongest case only,” OL said, as we pulled away from the curb. “We don’t apply the term predator to just any offender. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.”

It seems Sorry wasn’t sorry enough.

And as if I wasn’t nauseated enough, OL turned to me with a smile. “You’re gonna love the next one.”

Interview number two -- male Caucasion, age 43 -- we'll call him "Poor Me" (PM)

Our next interview, another sexual predator with a history of crimes against children, lived in a transient apartment complex – all on one level, looking rather like a cheap motel. In fact, the Flamingo’s Nest Apartments had, in earlier times been the Flamingo’s Nest Motel, and our subject had lived there for eight straight years.

It was a depressing place of one bedroom or studio suites, with too small windows, jalousie type facing a barren, black-topped central square which doubled as a parking lot. It looked like a dead zone in the middle of this green, overgrown, fertile state.

Megan Kanka -- in whose memory the first laws regarding mandatory public access to the Sex Offenders' Registry were enacted. Now known as Megan's Law enacted in 1996
Megan Kanka -- in whose memory the first laws regarding mandatory public access to the Sex Offenders' Registry were enacted. Now known as Megan's Law enacted in 1996

Surprisingly, a large number of children’s toys littered the central space, and the wails of babies and toddlers filled the air.

I raised an eyebrow at OL.

He shrugged. “Can’t do anything about it. Times are tough. Some of these rooms house complete families.” He banged on the door of our destination, and winked at me. “Hang in there.”

OL left me sitting alone with Poor Me, who was about to earn his nickname, while the parole officer flipped through a stack of magazines, and checked the cupboards.

Poor Me watched him with clear antagonism. “He doesn’t believe me. But I never did anything wrong. You won’t believe in my innocence. No one does.” There is a grating whininess to his voice I find irritating. He is a man of medium height, slightly built and with the softness of someone who has avoided exercise for most of his life, and the pallor of one who rarely sees the sun. Excuse me for injecting my own observations – but hey, I’m a fiction writer, not a journalist – but if you’d called Central Casting and asked for someone really creepy to play a pedophile, you’d get this man. Seriously.

Me: Tell me about your innocence – what happened; how did you get arrested?”

PM: I left my girlfriend of the time and she was mad at me for it. A year later, her 12 year old sister says we had sex -- consensual sex -- and I was arrested.

OL: Her daughter, XX. If you’re spinning another story, at least get the provable facts straight.

PM: She told me it was her sister. (He rolls his eyes and smirks at me, as though we have a bond, and I am complicate in detesting the Corrections Officer, or we're sharing a joke.) I couldn’t afford a lawyer so they gave me some useless public defender. I told him I hadn’t done it. This public defender says to me, “Look at her picture. She’s a looker, with big breasts -- like the jury will believe her. You should take a plea.”

I says to him, “But I’m innocent. How can the put me away by saying this happened?” He says, “It’s election time; they don’t need proof. If the jury don’t get you – the judge will – so take a plea.”

Adam Walsh, in whose memory the controversial Adam Walsh Act is enacted 2006.
Adam Walsh, in whose memory the controversial Adam Walsh Act is enacted 2006.

Me: Really? Wow – tough break. So what happened?

PM: I plead no contest and they label me a predator at the time. I had no clue what they meant by that.

Me: Your lawyer didn’t explain?

PM: These public defenders, they work for the state – didn’t you know that? They f***ing work with the DA to put you away.

OL: Watch your language – this is a lady.

PM: Sorry, ma’am. It’s true – they do; the state pays them. Anyway, when you’re charged as a sex offender, no one’s going to help you. I had to watch my family go through all that shit – the embarrassment, the shame; the neighbors hate them now. And then I got a beat down in lock-up and they wouldn’t let me out unless I said I was guilty of this crime. They said ‘If you keep saying you’re innocent you will be charged with ‘discrediting the victim,’ so I couldn’t tell the truth. And while all this is going on, I’m already called a predator … and they already vandalized my house and I can’t live with my mother anymore cause there’s a daycare round the corner, and I paid over $10,000 in fines…All the shame, humiliation, all my rights, respect and dignity stolen, my freedom taken away – now I know what being called a predator means. Yeah – you could say I learned the hard way – You want a coke or something?

Me: No thanks. I’m good. (While this man was speaking, OL was slowly going through cupboards, drawers, closet, even lifting the cushions of the couch, and reaching underneath.)

PM: So now, my family curses me. I do my whole bit in jail; didn’t get early release; they didn’t release me till they had to, cause I refused their stupid treatment program – I don’t need treatment – I didn’t do anything.

OL gives a short laugh.

PM: (He leaned over, and spoke quietly to me.) I told you; he doesn’t believe me.

Me: I wonder why.

PM: You don’t believe me, either. No one ever does. Doesn’t matter. All you need to know is how hard this is; this life. What they done to me – cursed me. It’s the first thing I think of in the morning, and the last thing on my mind at night. If I forget, they’re quick to remind me – the TV, the news, radio, newspaper, internet – though I can’t go there. I get the looks from neighbors, got no job, no friends. I can’t even go down to the harbor and do a little fishing without an okay from the man here – there’s a playground close by. Can’t go see my Mom – there’s a day care nearby, and that’s my house.

I wear this. (He pulled up his baggy khaki pants leg and showed me an electronic monitoring ankle bracelet.) Like some f***king dog – sorry, ma’am.

I tried to get a lawyer to fix this, paid him $2,500 cash and all he said was “They won’t let it back in court.” He kept my money, though. This curse they put on me – it goes on, and it could happen to anyone. All it takes is a few words from the mouth of a mixed up kid to destroy your life.

Think on that.

Me: I will. Tell me, why would this girl make such allegations against you?

PM: I told you, her mother was mad at me for breaking up with her. She made the kid say these things. I used to think about revenge on her (He glances at OL who has finished looking for whatever it was) but she's just a kid who told a lie, not her fault. And I would never hurt a child.

Anyway, I got one more thing to say and I'm done.

I paid for my crime already and now I want to live what I have left without the label that I gained by mistake. This is affecting everything in my life -- where I live – in this dump; how people look at me; employment -- I have not even had an interview. My mother has to help me out – and I don’t want to be a burden on her. My constitutional rights are being violated and there is nothing I can do to be released from this label – which I don’t deserve. I did my time – you got that? And now I’m being punished all over again.

Me: Is that it?

PM: Yeah. Are you going to write that?

Me: Every word.

PM: He (He jerked his thumb at OL) says you spent years working with the victims – the kids.

Me: That’s right.

PM: So you know sometimes kids can lie, or make a mistake.

Me: I’ve never seen a case where a child made up allegations of rape or other abuse. I’m not saying it has never happened, only that I’ve never seen such an instance.

PM: So you don’t believe me.

Me: Does it matter?

PM: Not a bit. No one believes me. Hey, what’s the worst case you ever saw? Tell me.

Me: No.

Officer Lorne was right; I just loved this one.

I don’t know if you noticed the crime with which he was charged, but the information according to the records states he raped a ten-year-old girl with such force he injured her genitals, injuries requiring hospitalization and medical treatment.

Her mother was not his girlfriend, she lived next door to a previous address.

Also, PM’s mother doesn’t live in Florida.

And he has no other family.

Coming up in Part 3 -- Interview with Two Level I offenders

In order to maintain balance, and to ensure everyone understands the two men interviewed in this article are of the highest risk category of offenders and are not typical of the majority of offenders on the registry, I will interview two registered Level 1 offenders.

Today we saw why the registry for sex offenders, particularly of the highest risk offenders may be a useful tool for law enforcement and society -- though both of these men were not registered at the time they carried out their crimes. Next, we will meet two low-level offenders who believe the continuing punishment of the registry far outweighs any 'crime' they may have committed. I hope you will come back to read their stories as well.

But what, I ask myself have I gained from the two interviews described here.

After all those years of working with the victims, I wanted to find answers to certain questions that had long plagued me. What goes through the mind of an adult during the course of such a crime; how do they see their victims? What is lacking in them that they can so mistreat the smallest and weakest among us?

I thought perhaps by speaking with offenders who had committed these atrocities, I might learn these answers. I didn't.

I did learn there are some among us without a soul, without a heart, without a conscience.

It is often said, eighty percent of abusers were abused, and that may be true. But it doesn't hold true that eighty percent of the abused become abusers. What a conundrun, an enigma, a riddle....


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    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      7 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      If you know anything about me or have read some of my other articles or know of my work with children, you would understand exactly how I feel about child molesters. Having said that, in my research it has also come to light that many on the sex-offender's lists do not belong there. That the term predators should not be applied to boys of 18 who have girlfriends just below the age of consent. Any one doing research into this area has to try and put prejudices aside and look at both sides of the question. Please read "Rape of the Innocents" an article in my collection.

    • profile image

      Just Kimberly 

      7 years ago

      I need to finish part III & part IV, but, as a victim myself (of a violent rape - I was 12 and never "told" on the rapist, who was a friend of my older brother…) it feels to me like you're making every case you can to DEFEND predators.

      All the preamble leading up to the actual interviews #1 and #2 seemed to be designed to make the public feel pity for predators.

      Personally, I wish they were all tortured and sodomized with a burning hot red metal iron poker. But, that's just me. :-(

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      8 years ago from Alberta and Florida


    • profile image


      8 years ago

      We employed to receive high on existence although recently I have built up the amount of resistance.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      9 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Jack, I have worked with child victims of the sex trafficking trade -- so for the last time, your belief or disbelief in the issue is of no consequence.

      One of the interesting consequences of my writing about my experiences in protection is the number of past victims who have written to me. But then, you wouldn't believe them; would you?

      You've been a busy boy leaving comments on each of my hubs on this subject, and I thank you for your interest.

    • profile image


      9 years ago

      Something that bothers me - and I might make some people angry here - is that these disgusting, mentally sick men like those you interviewed (and I once had one working for me without knowing it at the time) are in part adding to a great deal of sensationalism and extreme attacks under the code name "trafficking" which is a word no one even knew 10 years ago. Trafficking is getting a lot more attention then it deserves. In regard to sex trafficking internationally and in the USA, the vast majority of those who trafficked are willing participants because they want to make money and have the skill to do that and maybe nothing else. The people singing the extreme song always talk about children and always make their situation sound so grim - but I know different. If I read between the lines I see that you think that the harshness in recent years about this issue is a result of the anger people have about this. But you say that 90% of the people listed are the low grade offenders not likely to offend again. Just like my HUB "Life Sentences for Traffickers" may this issue like the issue of trafficking is over the top, to extreme. Recidivism is the lowest except for the sick pedophiles. I draw comparisons to the "white slavery" issue in the 20s and the McCarthy lists of Communists in government both of which were found to be highly exaggerated in their time. Both trafficking and the danger from sex offenders fall into that category. They were all issues du jour and we have responded with extreme, expensive laws when normal police practice should do the job properly. We need to get a grip on our emotions and feel safe and proud again in America. People are scaring us needless for donations for their causes. - - JACK

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Thanks Johny D313. That pleases immensely. Isn't a good article supposed to make you think? Lynda

    • JohnnyD313 profile image


      10 years ago

      Wow, so many thoughts come to mind when reading your article. Sex offender lists have this one size fits all mentality, which I don't agree with. I'm looking forward to the third part!

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Hi scla -- Yes, I think you nailed it. How else would they be able to live with it. I also thought, like all people they want to be liked, so they try and present themselves in a better light. Who knows? Thanks for commenting. Lynda

    • scla profile image


      10 years ago from Southern California

      Getting to see the thoughts of some of these sex offenders is somewhat disturbing, especially when they haven't come to terms with what they have done. I remember reading at some point a study that pointed to the fact that offenders tend to sometimes create their own interpretation of events as a coping mechanism.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Thank you for this thoughtful comment. I understood even while I was repelled by these men that the reason they downplayed their crime was the very human need to be liked. With my years of involvement in abuse of children, I have something of an understanding, but I would have liked them more had they said, I was mistaken; I did wrong and I accept that. Now I'm trying to move forward.

      What can one say? Is there any man who has not seen a budding female body and not had a thought? Or a woman who has not felt the same over a pretty young man? That is a normal function of our animal instincts --- BUT, we do not act on them!! It isn't the thought that is a crime; it is the action.

      Thanks again for this comment. I agree with much of what you're saying. Still, having dealt with the consequences of those who do not draw a line between thought and action, I do find it hard to forgive. Lynda

    • profile image


      10 years ago

      'What makes a man or woman sexually abuse a member of their own family?' is a thought that has crossed my mind many times. I value your interviews with these sex offenders. It was something (the interviews) I wanted to do myself so that I could understand. I think understanding comes before forgiveness... sometimes. The desire to forgive, for me, creates the desire to understand although I think it's mixed up with the desire to pretend it never happened in the first place.

      In my experience there's a taboo concerning the topic of sexual abuse in the western world and this is why it's dealt with and talked about in counseling and specific Survivor groups rather than at the dinner table. So it's not likely that a man who has issues with control would put his hand up and admit to feeling sexual when in charge of a minor. I think the amount of shame that comes with that feeling would probably be too much to feel and they probably suppress it, much like a child does when they are being sexually abused. It's the only way to survive at the time.

      I wonder if we had space for potential abusers to talk about these feelings without additional judgment or shame whether it would make a difference. I guess not. I think these people must hurt very much in order to do these things. How do you get people who hurt to talk about their hurt when they've buried it so deep they don't even realise they're hurt and they pretend that what they did was okay?

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      I would enjoy hearing your story. Lynda

    • profile image

      David M. 

      10 years ago

      Thank you. I'm pretty behind on technology (partially because of my years of Internet restrictions). I will contact you. Not sure if you're interested, but I have alot to say about what I call the "aftermath" of registration. The ups and downs of life, and where I'm at today. I feel almost selfish as I type this, because despite my affliction, I live very well today. I know countless people, without my label, that are in much worse positions in life than I am. Many would say I have nothing to complain about. Today, I am truly blessed and fortunate. But it wasn't always this way.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Where it says Contact lmmartin is my email.

    • profile image

      David M. 

      10 years ago

      No offense taken. I hope that my insight and personal situation will help you with your research. I tried clicking on your link, and it gave me alot of info about you, but I did not find an actual email address. Also, I'm very candid and frank about my case, and I understand how some of it could be considered offensive by some. My sole intention is to tell my story, honestly and it's entiriety, to the best of my ability. Again, thank you. You have no idea of the thereputic value of simply allowing me to be read. as to the purpose of your article, this my opinion: nobody wants to listen to ANY sex offender. The politicians only care about securing votes (ironically, I never lost my right to vote), so the only way this can be corrected is if enough non-offenders came together with a MASSIVE petition (maybe, a couple hundred thousand signitures, if you are high up enough up the ladder and this happens to your son (I'm using "you" in the general sense), or and I think this would be the best approach: if law enforcement themselves came forward and admitted that the system is faulty, is costing millions of dollars a year to maintain, and by monitoring those that don't need to be, they are wasting manpower and resources that could be used to track ACTUAL PREDATORS. Again obviously noone would care if this opinion came from an offender (our opinions are biased), but if it came from LE, maybe someone would listen. Best wishes to you.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Thanks for the comment, David and for explaining. Don't be offended, but I'm going to remove this comment, simply because it has gotten beyond what my readers would find interesting, but if you want to contact me privately, there is a contact me link under my avatar. No insult intended. And your interest is definitely appreciated. I suggest you go and have a look at the hub, Sex Offenders, everyone has an opinion. I think you'll find some words of interest there. Lynda

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Whether your memory serves you or not, I am correct on Canadian law -- and it's practice! We don't clog up our courts with young men having sex with willing young partners. It's pragmatic. Now, note, I did say YOUNG men. There's no way any legislation will ever stop teenagers from having sex, and it's only a measure of the ego of our legislators that they try.

      So, she was someone you didn't know very well... if at all. And the moral of the story is, if you don't know the girl, or how she lives, or what her life was about... I won't finish the statement.

    • profile image

      David M. 

      10 years ago

      I gave the "shorthand version" of Canadian law. But if my memory serves me right, you are correct. Also, I cannot give a factual answer as to why law enforcement got involved. I can only tell you what I know, and speculate from there. Keep in mind, as soon as I was arrested, a condition of my release (sor- or supervised own recognizance) was that I have no contact, so I was never able to ask "why?". This is what I know- I was driving her home. It was the middle of the afternoon, and it was the perfect day for things to go wrong: the skies were black and it was pourring buckets. She was starring put the passenger window, and whimpering under her breath. I waited a few minutes, finally I asked "what's wrong?" she responded "nothing, nothing, I'm alright", so I said "we just finnished making love, you can talk to me. What's wrong?" she asked "how old did I tell you I was again?" I said "17" with a quiver in my voice. And she said-" I kinda lied to you, I'm really 15". I have never felt my heart sink faster or harder, than at that precise moment. I tried to console her, but just wanted to get home, so I dropped her off and called her about an hour later. Told me she was busy and she'ld have to call me back. I didn't pressure her. I went to work around 4:30, and received a call from the sherriffs dept at 10 minutes till 9 (I got off at 9). Now, I have learned several interesting tidbits of information since, and had known this at the time, it may have changed what happened. Come to find out, the apt she shared with her mother was a special place, reserved for beaten and abused woman. I told the officer on the phone that she had lied about her age. They said "I don't care if she showed you a fake ID, she's still a minor. I understand (this is what officers told me at time) that the mother made several attempts to reach me (my cellphone batterie died) and when she couldn't get me, she called them. I later found out through my public defender (I used for about a year), that the officers asked the mother if she wanted to press charges, she said NO and they told her that if she didn't press charges against me, they would press charges against her for NEGLECT or condoning the delinquency of a minor. Given that option, I don't blame her. Beyond that I don't know what happened. She was obviously upset when I left her, and her mother wanted this handled.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Okay -- of course, enquiring minds want to know: how did you come to the attention of law enforcement. With the thousands and thousands of eighteen year old boys with fifteen year old girls -- why you? Lynda

      Oh - you slipped in another comment. Here is the Canadian law as it is today:

      What is Canada's age of consent?

      The age of consent for sexual activity is 16 years. It was raised from 14 years on May 1, 2008 by the Tackling Violent Crime Act.

      However, the age of consent is 18 years where the sexual activity "exploits" the young person -- when it involves prostitution, pornography or occurs in a relationship of authority, trust or dependency (e.g., with a teacher, coach or babysitter). Sexual activity can also be considered exploitative based on the nature and circumstances of the relationship, e.g., the young person's age, the age difference between the young person and their partner, how the relationship developed (quickly, secretly, or over the Internet) and how the partner may have controlled or influenced the young person.

      Are there any exceptions to this?

      The Criminal Code provides "close in age" or "peer group" exceptions.

      For example, a 14 or 15 year old can consent to sexual activity with a partner as long as the partner is less than five years older and there is no relationship of trust, authority or dependency or any other exploitation of the young person. This means that if the partner is 5 years or older than the 14 or 15 year old, any sexual activity will be considered a criminal offence unless it occurs after they are married to each other (in accordance with the "solemnization" of marriage requirements that are established in each province and territory, governing how and when a marriage can be performed, including the minimum age at which someone may marry).

      So, in Canada, a girl of fourteen CAN consent to sex provided her partner is no older than nineteen -- as I stated. Canadians don't have the same -- and I'm looking for a word that isn't offensive -- hysteria about sex in general, and rarely would a consensual act of a partner 14 or older be prosecuted unless it fell into the 'exploitive' situation. You can take my word on this as knowledgeable.I'm still very involved in child welfare issues.

    • profile image

      David M. 

      10 years ago

      P.s.s- the age of consent in Canada was recently (within the last 2 years) was raised from 14 to 16.

    • profile image

      David M. 

      10 years ago

      Very good follow-up to your first article. These are exactly the kind of people that need to be on the registry. I have had talks with friends and aquaintances, who know of my situation, and they are very surprised when I state the need and praise for the registry. We are like minded, in that we agree that the public needs to be protected from CERTAIN individuals. Other issues you may at some point want to look into are "what affect is the registry having on males as a whole- stigma by association?" or how in this day and age, if your a 10 year old, and your drowning, and the only person there to save you is a grown man, you may drown, because the man is too afraid of possible accusations?! Again thank you for allowing me to post my story. As I stated before. I don't expect or anyone else for that matter, to believe me at face value, bit this is true: I committed a crime, I admitted it and took responsibility from the beginning. I do feel remorse for MY actions. Do I feel sorry for my victim? Yes. My decision to allow things to escalate to a sexual act ultimately, either directly or indirectly, altered the course of this young ladies life, and that lies with me. I used to be the guy that, if a child was riding their bike, and fell in front of my house, i'ld run in, grab the rubbing alcohol and gauze. Today, I have neighbors that STILL ask me to watch their kids, knowing full well of my position (they have said so in their letters to court on my behalf). I of course turn them down, not because I think I would do anything, but because false allegations fly fast and loose, and it would be too easy to fall into that trap. 2 points before I leave: I can't speak as to EVERY case, but in mine, I was court ordered to have no contact with the victim, so the possibility of continuing the relationship, or later getting married, were an improbability. That's probably why you don't see more "I

      married my victim" cases. Secondly, believe it or not, even my highschool sweetheart (yes, the one I cheated on with my victim) even SHE will come to my defense. Shell tell you I'm an a*#, but I'm no pedo. Thanks again for entertaining my rantings.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Hi Janny C. Thanks for coming by and commenting. Yes, meeting with a true predator is a disturbing look at a flawed character. And people like these need to to be on the offenders list. I don't think that mixing these people with others who made an error in judgment, and treating them all the same is the right answer however. Lynda

    • JannyC profile image


      10 years ago

      Wow and very disturbing look into these guys minds.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Wow -- it seems I got behind in my comments here. Sorry.

      Hi Tatjana -- I wrote these verbatim because I don't consider myself qualified to say what is going on inside of another person. Sorry/not sorry -- I couldn't say.

      Hi Sirdent -- yes, he was particularly nauseating, I must say.

      Hi Lisa -- Sorry I couldn't give you the interviews you want to see, only the ones they gave me.

      Thanks everyone for commenting here. Lynda

    • profile image


      10 years ago

      I have no respect for the man is denial of his acts. However, given the fact that father whom rapped his children admited his act,but with guilt. When the hell are they going to be honest about why they commited the act, what took place in their mind when in the act? was it power and control or both? Can't any of those cowards step up to the plat and tell like a real rapist... those are the interviews I want to see. thanks, in search for research

    • profile image


      10 years ago

      I must say you certainly are brave for tackling such a task. Love the details of the interviews. I am not sure I could have kept my temper in check with number 2.

      I wrote an article a few months ago and included a lot of Ted Bundy's last interview. If you are interested, I can give you a link.

    • Tatjana-Mihaela profile image


      10 years ago from Zadar, CROATIA

      Wow. These guys are certainly not sorry for their crimes, thank you so much for sharing this.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      I do say no comments? Nope, not me. That's hubpages. And folks link in my hub's comments all the time. So go ahead. It is polite to ask first, but most of us allow links.

    • profile image


      10 years ago

      I have but you specifically stated under Post comments that promoting my hub or other sites is not to be posted in the comments section..I did join hubpages for the sole purpose of commenting on your aticles, isn't that what you wanted? I had never heard of this site before your articles were forwarded to me. I'll tell ya what, you go into your google alerts, type in "repeat offender arrested" or "sex offender arrested again" heck put in any combination you like, everyday when you open your e-mail I promise you there are at least 4 from all over the country, but dont take my word for it, do it then add up everyday these same offenders revolving thru the system and it isn't for "failing to register" that's their claim to fame. Good luck with your articles and if your ever interested in my perspective and some solution ideas I am easy to find..

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      As I said earlier Valigator, we may all have our opinions, however, statistics disagree with you, not my statistics, but those from the Department of Justice. Sex offenders as a group have a very low rate of recidivism -- with the exception of the predatory pedophile. Not all sex crimes are committed by pedophiles.

      Familial abusers rarely, very rarely go outside of their family circle. This has been shown in study after study.

      True pedophiles do, but they account for only a small fraction of sex-offenders in general. True pedophiles represent a pathology that is not condusive to any kind of treatment -- so yes, they need to have Level 3 supervision. And thankfully, they get it.

      Not so the level one who met a girl in a bar and thought her of age ...

      And as to the daily papers stating level ones are re-offending at all time highs -- please!

      I did not seek praise, sir. I was seeking an understanding of the enemy I've cleaned up after for many years.

      According to the legal people I spoke with, threat levels are set on the basis of the felony committed, of the crime itself, coupled with evaluation of counselors who specialize in sex crime pathology.

      Thank you for taking the time to comment here. Your opinions are now stated publicly for all to read, and it is my pleasure to host them. Apparently, you joined hubpages for the sole purpose of commenting on these articles (I followed your link.) Why don't you write an article of your own on the subject?

    • profile image


      10 years ago

      I notice much praise for facing these people. One thing most readers should gather from "facing" these people is this. Child sex abusers do so for two reasons, compulsion and or opportunity aligned with lack of control and the victims are easy because they are minors.Most offenders with minor victims wouldn't have the audacity to approach an adult. That in itself should be very telling about these offenders and their mindset.I have a theory on the above profiled offenders: If they have no qualms about victimizing those closest to them, they certainly wont think twice about approaching "your" child if opportunity presents itself! So spreading stats around as if it is suppose to make us feel better because its inter familial is ludicrous. If an offender watches your child get off the school bus at the same time everyday? Trust me in his mind and LE's mind "he knows the child"..the other aspect of threat levels assigned to offenders is this: As budgets get tighter you will start to see lower threat levels. Threat levels are directly proportionate to oversight and dependent on "state funded voodoo doctors" that have the lowest ranking in the psychiatric profession. The daily paper re-enforces that level ones are re-offending at all time highs, so dont look for help or put any of your families safety stock in threat level assessments.

    • KewlWriter profile image


      10 years ago from United States

      Yes Lynda, I was just pondering and thinking out aloud. But Whatever you have till now really something to be applauded. Thanks for facing "these" people, taking to them and getting this information.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Hi Kewlwriter,

      No, unfortunately I have not. It would be interesting, I think, but beyond the scope here. I'm sure there are studies of such out there, just a question of finding them. I'll look at that for another article down the road, maybe. Lynda

    • KewlWriter profile image


      10 years ago from United States

      That's a good point. People lie when they are uncomfortable whether its because he/she is a criminal or just to get out of sticky situations, its only Human to lie. That's right.

      I was thinking about this topic a little while ago. Have you had a chance to know their backgrounds, like their childhood upbringing or any mental illnesses they have?

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Thanks KewlWriter,

      I suspect the lying is part of the defense process. I imagine these men know what society thinks of them, what I may think of them and try to minimize their crimes. I don't think the habit of lying is part of the criminal process, but the human one. Who doesn't want to be liked? Then, I suppose someone likely to commit crimes, wouldn't think twice about lying about it. I am a criminal therefore I lie. But not, I lie, therefore I am a criminal -- I don't think. Thanks for commenting. Lynda

    • KewlWriter profile image


      10 years ago from United States

      " thought perhaps by speaking with offenders who had committed these atrocities, I might learn these answers. I didn't."

      I was eager to read part 2 mainly to know the answer to this question. What a mystery it seems now : Why would someone do such a thing and what's going on in their minds.?

      Seems like lying is a big part of the crimes of these people.

      It would be interesting to study if pathological liars are more inclined towards committing crimes.

      But I did like your answer:

      "I did learn there are some among us without a soul, without a heart, without a conscience."

      Thanks so much for writing in such detail and waiting for next part.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Thanks bayoulady. I didn't feel nervous at all. A little disturbed sometimes perhaps, by the easy lies, the shrugging off of responsibility. But not nervous. I wanted to try and understand, but I couldn't. The next article deals with a totally different level of offenders -- the level one. Hope you join me there. Lynda

    • bayoulady profile image


      10 years ago from Northern Louisiana,USA

      Got nervous a bit just reading this, thinking of you having to sit there and digest this. You have something in you that I just don't have. I admire that. Your descriptions were powerful.

    • Hello, hello, profile image

      Hello, hello, 

      10 years ago from London, UK

      Thank you, Lynda, for explaining it more clearly.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Hello Cari Jean, Yes, as a parent, grandparent and a worker in child protection, I've often wondered about all this, and that's what I set out to answer. I didn't find my answers. Thanks for your comment, Lynda

    • Cari Jean profile image

      Cari Jean 

      10 years ago from Bismarck, ND

      My heart aches for these children who have suffered at the hands of such evil. My daughter is almost 7 and I can't imagine what it would be like if something like this happened to her. It's unimaginable what is going through a predators mind when they are doing this terrible act. All I can say is that it is proof there is evil in this world.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Hi Peg,

      Yes, so it would seem. Or perhaps they can't allow themselves to remember clearly -- or is that too generous? Wait for the next article and see the other side of the coin. Thanks for your comment. Lynda

    • PegCole17 profile image

      Peg Cole 

      10 years ago from Northeast of Dallas, Texas

      Lynda, These interviews offer insight to the inner workings in the mindsets of these offenders. In both cases they distorted and mis-remembered the facts. They are truly men without a conscience. Their victims will never be the same, nor will their self esteem and view of love and relationships.

      I admire the fact that after so many years of serving the cause of the victims you opened your self up to hearing things from the offender's point of view. That must have been a seriously difficult task, and you are very brave.

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Hi Hello,

      you ask a good question, and I'll do my best to tell you what I know. You, like most people have the wrong idea of sex offenses, thinking it is typically someone who sees, stalks and rapes a child. In truth, 90%, if not more, abuse children in their own families or extended family circle. In these cases, sexuality doesn't appear to play as prominent a role as domination and control. So you see, the easy access to sexual partners would not alleviate this problem, as it is not usually sexually motivated. In the small percentage where a predator does select a previously unknown victim, they may be a true pedophile, whose distorted views see children as sexual objects. And still others may have a touch of the sadist about them, wanting to hurt and destroy the weakest among us, but I've never had any experience with that kind of case.

      The majority of my cases that were not family contained abuse, involved victims age eleven to fourteen -- that age where a girl is beginning to develop womanly attributes. This suggests to me, these offenders are drawn to the child/woman. We could hypothesis about the pathology this represents: lack of self-esteem that makes them feel threatened by adult women, perhaps. I can't say for sure.

      All I do know for sure, is the offenders are without a doubt the most self-centered of people -- another pathology. Others don't exist except as they may gratify their desires.

      That's the best answer I can offer.

    • Hello, hello, profile image

      Hello, hello, 

      10 years ago from London, UK

      Hello, Lynda, and having read every line, including the comments, it is an eye opener. It is amazing how they are complete oblivious to what they have done. I guess that goes with every criminal. I can't believe they doing this these days because girls are so freely with their one night stand - at least in England - and that got me thinking whether there isn't another thing in their make-up. I hope you don't mind because I haven't got a clue really and you are a professional. I was wondering whether it isn't sadism what makes them do it? Those children I saw pictures off looked happy and smiling and maybe it was sadism which makes them inflict pain and take their smile away? Could that be some point? Those monsters are miserable and somehow unhappy. People like this don't like other being happy and carefree which children are.

    • resspenser profile image

      Ronnie Sowell 

      10 years ago from South Carolina


      Great hub. I especially thought the Q & A part was excellent. Chilling, really.

      Near the end of your hub you question what goes on in the minds of these guys, how they view their victims, etc.

      I believe that they are simply evil. I think that just as some people are good, decent, caring individuals, some people are monsters. It's the monsters we need to be rid of.

    • MartieCoetser profile image

      Martie Coetser 

      10 years ago from South Africa

      PS: I have to thank Lilly for her insight and empathy. Not allowing ourselves to feel, is extremely tiresome and not healthy. We should all quit this habit. “Where lucidity reigns a scale of values is unnecessary,” is a quote of some wise guy whose name I can’t remember now. Peace and hugs for you as well, Lilly!

    • MartieCoetser profile image

      Martie Coetser 

      10 years ago from South Africa

      Hi Lynda, I’m back.... cool and collected. I’m on your page with the word ‘ruining’. Objectively viewed I was not ruined, but merely deprived of (perhaps) a better life, a healthy self-esteem, opportunities only available to teenagers and young adults, and I was loaded with bad memories that will forever determine my reactions on certain impulses.

      Re Poor Me - I’m totally speechless. I know this type. They are past redemption. Perhaps they have not low, but NO self-esteems. They are failures amongst adults, not at all able to impress an adult woman. So they go for children. Or perhaps they never grow up, and are, in fact, mentally still children in the body of an adult? This guy also belongs on the other planet – he will, for sure, be the victim of many abusers up there.

      But okay, there is not yet a planet available for them. So in the meanwhile we have to bear with them. I am impressed with your laws – that monitor around his ankle.... although it will not prevent him to abuse the children living around him and entering his apartment.

      Lynda, my hat off, bowing to you. Your presentation of this sensitive issue is remarkably awesome. I look forward to our interaction via e-mail as well as to nr.3 of this series. Thanks a lot for your support!

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Hi Lilly --

      poorly healed wounds need to be opened, and Martie and I have an ongoing correspondence on this issue. I am not opposed to her reaction, not at all. But part of the problem surrounding child sex abuse is the emotional reaction of the public at large -- the same public that somehow produces 7 out of ten girls and 4 out of ten boys as victims -- the same public where it is estimated abuse goes on in 1 out of 3 homes.

      As I said, cooler heads must prevail. For as long as we pretend 'they' are some few sick and degenerated warped individuals instead of the wide segment of society abusers represent, we will come no closer to attending to the real problems. It is not a problem of a few, it is a problem of our society.

      Again to Martie,

      Very few of the victims I've worked with, spoken to, heard of, go on to a 'ruined' future. Most come to terms, and go on to live in the present of a new day, a new life.

      This is one of the issues I hold against much of the dramatic representations of sex crimes on television, where the victim is so often portrayed as suicidal, destroyed, or as you say ruined. There are those that never do come to terms, but they are also dealing with underlying issues. Most survivors put it in perspective and move on.

      I say this not as a rebuke for those who express their long repressed emotions, but as clarification to everyone reading here. Most of us are not ruined. No, not at all.

      Thank you for commenting. Lynda

    • LillyGrillzit profile image

      Lori J Latimer 

      10 years ago from Central Oregon

      When you publish stories like this, it will open wounds that have been sealed like a bad scab. You are professional and very together. I have deep wounds as well from not allowing myself to "feel". Honestly, I think she is just feeling with her words (martie), and it is good that she 'came out with it'. In this safe place.

      I am glad that you talk about those hollow ones, that delight to take innocence, like a valuable serum.

      Let healing begin...

    • MartieCoetser profile image

      Martie Coetser 

      10 years ago from South Africa

      Hi Lynda! According to statistics and 20% cases known, these abusers seem to be like invisible bugs/parasites that destroy souls in the dark.

      Lynda, yes, I am emotional about this, and can’t read this without getting emotional disturbed. But I can control my anger and bitterness and will not allow it to control me. Having ignored this topic for many years, I think it is about high time I allow my emotions (demons) to explode – at least on the screen of my computer, and posted for the world to see. Perhaps this will sterilize wounds... Yes, I know what you are talking about – the certain amount of excitement experienced – but that is, as you said, perhaps the main reason why many a victim is not able to come to terms with the whole issue. How could she blame the abuser if she needed and accepted his attention, not knowing she is actually ruining her own future? – As you, indeed, referred to in your next paragraph.

      Okay, I’m going back to your hub now, with a cooler head. Thanks!

    • lmmartin profile imageAUTHOR


      10 years ago from Alberta and Florida

      Thank you atienza -- I suppose self-contained is as good a word as any. In truth, it is a professional veneer gained by hard work and training and a product of having heard these stories many times before, but from the victims. Thanks for your comment. Lynda

      Hi Martie, In many ways the inflation of the issue by the law has worked against the victims. As the opening quote states, and subsequent studies suggest, as the degree of retribution and public humiliation for the offender increases, the rate of reporting of these crimes decreases. Although law enforcement likes to apply this statistical decrease to the registry, professionals in the field believe it is only the number of crimes reported that has diminished. Why? Because such a large percentage of abusers do so within their own families, may be the breadwinner for the family, or the victim fears the family will be broken up. I've known many victims with this fear, who endured years of abuse before taking action.

      Remember, professionals in the field believe less than 20% of sex offenses are ever reported. The true scope will never be known, but we must understand what we see is only the tip of the iceberg. If we are ever to uncover and study the rest, it is counterproductive to make the cost of such exposure destruction of a family member or the family itself.

      Lastly, to quote Mr. Spock of the Star Trek series (to which I was addicted as a child,) 'My dear Martie, you must learn to govern your emotions. They will be your undoing.' It is possible to respond: to be angry, appalled, indignant, disgusted, sympathetic, empathic, sad ... without totally losing your mind, or feeling murderous. If this is so disturbing, perhaps you shouldn't read it, at least not until you have come to terms with your own demons.

      Our overly emotional responses do nothing for the victims (many of whom will continue to love their abuser -- most often a family member) or may have mixed emotions about the abuse. One of the many things most people prefer to ignore as it makes them feel uncomfortable, is that mixed in with all the confusion surrounding long term abuse, is a certain amount of excitement in many victims. Children are sexual beings, albeit in a child's way, and it is often this mixture of degradation, humiliation, and fear along with a touch of excitement or even pleasure that leaves the victims feeling the guilt that compounds the confusion and emotional storm that accompanies such a situation. (And before anyone jumps on me with extreme reaction -- no, I am not speaking of violent rape by a stranger, but sexual abuse by a loved one.)

      It is this strange emotional mixture that is responsible for much of the emotional disturbance many victims feel for years -- yes, it is.

      When society reacts with outrage, horror and a three-ring circus, this doesn't help the victim's conflicted state.

      Cooler heads must prevail. Lynda

    • MartieCoetser profile image

      Martie Coetser 

      10 years ago from South Africa

      Linda, I have to comment in detail as far as I read your hub, for too many thoughts flash through my mind like lighting – extremely upsetting! As a victim myself, this issue lies on the bottom of my heart, like volcanic material, always ready to explode – Sp please forgive me if my comment turns out to be a hub on its own -

      Shocking! – “... 95% of newly reported sex crimes are committed by someone without a record...” So we’ll never be able to recognize the snakes before they bite us!

      So true in my case: “... often the victim is pressured by family members to remain silent... for fear the family will be broken up.”

      My abuser was a level 2 offender, but not legally charged, because my parents were Christians. They believed in forgiveness and love thy enemy. Let God do the punishment. In the meantime his own daughters grew up, and guess what? My parents could have saved them!

      The inflation of sexual crimes by the Law and the press is in my view in favor of victims and potential victims – a weapon in their hands, a shield. But being a threat for the abuser, it may force him to apply more serious and devastating intimidating tactics.

      Lynda, the results of your self-motivated mission to explore and dissect this issue, is extremely valuable. To be read by all people in this world. Gosh, I wish I was an international publisher. It would have been my mission with vengeance to promote you, for sure.

      Ref. Sorry – I don’t get bluffed by the good manners exposed by people. Any chimpanzee can copy good manners and fool the world. His confession shocked me totally dizzy. He is the type that should not be on this planet. He belongs on another planet amongst people like him, where they can destroy each other as they please. How can that type of men expect forgiveness and sympathy? They are despicable! There excuses and pleads to be understood is not even worth listening to. (I’m upsetting myself, wish I could get my hands around his neck! God knows, I will kill him without blinking my eyes, and willingly go to jail for the rest of my life and I will sing all the time: ‘One less abuser on this earth, thanks to me!)

      Now I am totally out of my mind, Lynda... Hysterical!

      I’ll have to go for a walk to chill. Will come back later to read the rest.

    • atienza profile image


      10 years ago from Northern California

      Oh wow.....just, wow. You're a brave and well contained person. I could NOT have done these interviews. I understand people are sick, but on the other hand I just don't have that level of understanding to have any feelings other than disgust and contempt for these people. Thank you so much or this. I'm just sitting here shaking my head. I'm a mom to my ten year old daughter, and I just can't fathom it.


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