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One Progressive’s View: A Message from and to Black America Part I
I have been with Hub Pages for over 8 months and I find the process of writing therapeutic, a way to get a lot of things off of my chest that I don/t like to carry around. I was most disturbed when I saw this online article entitled “Obama Jobs Plan Heartens Frustrated Blacks”. I read the article with the usual interest, but was taken aback when I saw all the comments. They were of a nature that was well beyond the discussion of the merits of his program and the political differences that would be expected in such a forum.
The comments seem to come from everywhere with the overwhelming tone being clearly negative. It was what they were commenting about that was so disturbing. So, many insisted that the President was pandering to blacks with his program. I listened to the President’s address that evening and I did not hear any specific reference to race based solutions to the national unemployment crisis. What kinds of things swim in those minds of theirs? Then there were other Anglos that stated that if blacks were to benefit, somehow it would be at their expense, “a zero sum’ game. Never mind the fact that blacks are experiencing unemployment at rates that whites would consider at depression levels. There was no consideration, no compassion, just us verses them.
Then comes all the usual stereotypes, racial slurs, indicating that blacks are lazy and are just looking for another way to ‘game the system’ The sheer quantity of vitriol from people who would never say these things to another, face to face, was overwhelming. When I looked at all the photos of the lynchings that occurred in United States and the literal crowds standing around with the vendors selling refreshments, I have to wonder have we really changed or is all of this rather than being part of the past just merely redirected, not ameliorated. All the resentment and rage so many Anglos seem to harbor about this President has got to be having psychological effects. Do so many of you really carry all this angst around with you all of the time?
Just beneath the thin veneer of civility are the fundamental attitudes and beliefs of bigotry and racism made evident without even the desire to conceal it and be polite. Well, so much for the idea of a post racial society. The disrespect of this President and the office he holds has got to be more than coincidence. The trouble the President has had with congress is just a mere extension of the racial resentment and fear that is clearly among the masses. Perhaps I was naïve to expect more from those at such a high stature within our society.
First of all, is it unnatural for blacks to express hope in the President’s effort to assist in providing jobs in this troubled economy, when they are so adversely affected, unexpected? I no more expect this president to look exclusively to the interests of the black community any more than I expected Anglo presidents to look exclusively toward the interests of white communities. But, when you visit history, you know that many of them have. We only have a black president because of the overwhelming support for Mr. Obama by non-white voters. Plus, when you consider how the Republicans and their economic philosophy virtually destroyed the economy over the first decade of this century culminating with the September 2008 meltdown, it was hard for any Democratic contender to lose, even if he is black and considered ‘not one of us’ by many Anglos
Whites have always asked me, expecting an impartial answer, why haven’t your people pulled themselves up by their bootstraps? Until very recently the net worth of the average black family was 10 cents to every dollar of the white family. I had heard recently that because of the housing crisis, that ratio is now closer to 5 cents to the dollar. When the Anglo can go to Uncle Joe or Aunt Sue for seed money to start a business, most of us and our extended families have insufficient resources to do the same. This advantage whites have enjoyed over many generations relative to blacks and Hispanics. I never bought into the conservatives’ line about it being the “virtue of hard work”. My parents worked hard and I saw plenty of Anglo ‘dingbats’ that were the very antithesis of hard work or otherwise.
This gap in wealth is the reason that during hard economic times, we are the ones lacking the economic buffer to ride out the situation. It is always why I wondered why white people always seem to have so much money. It was why, while at the university, a white classmate told me that she was going to take a sabbatical for a year or two to find herself and then return ready to work. I know what my father would have told me if I made such a suggestion, I would have been more than likely to find a boot in my rear end within a nanosecond after the suggestion left my lips.. This lack of net worth forces us to the edge, with limited resources, thereby having only one chance to make good of an opportunity which was not likely to come again. Whites are 10 times more likely to have a substantial inheritance than blacks.
So, there is your seed money to advance your interests and that of your progeny. We all know that there is a fundamental difference between being rich and being wealthy. Prior to 1950 everybody is aware that the dearth of opportunities for people of color in the wider society was evident through overt and institutionalized racism. So, it is difficult to build a foundation when merely acquiring the resources to survive was a challenge Wealth is accumulated over time, I know, as my sister has married into a wealthy family (old money), where everybody takes their time as to achieving the things that they desire to accomplish. Any number of indiscretions of their members can be absorbed, with their financial resources providing each a ‘second chance’.
Wealth means having the resources to invest in the long term in the financial markets. Most minorities had their wealth in their homes and when the housing market failed, that wealth went with it.
Many of you are going to say, ‘what about Oprah or I was the son of an Appalachian coal miner’s daughter’, or other such thing. We are talking about the average and if you wish to dispute the veracity of data provided by the US census, go ahead, but I suggest that you read another article, elsewhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States
Then, of course, it is this argument about welfare and those playing the system. It seems to be an overriding theme of our adversaries. They say that the media is liberal, but I question that, how are so many lured to these eternal stereotypes? Those in the disaffected groups generally have to work harder to sustain themselves and their families without the help of Uncle Joe, who most probably has even less. Yes, there are many blacks using the social services safety nets. But as I have stated earlier, the people as a group are generally poorer. Is it any surprise that they are going to need to use the resources in greater and disproportionate numbers? The racial slurs, of course, speak for themselves
In spite of all this, history and the racial climate is only part of the problem. We bear a certain amount of blame for our current plight which I will address in Part II
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Comments
AuthorYour arguments are from your point of view, I would not want to say that you would be arrogant enough to consider your point of view, gospel...
I was refering to BLS as the source of the data of the average wealth of black families verses white families, that is more reliable than pointing to an Oprah Winfrey or whites that live in West Virginia. I am interest in the rule not the exception.
How are in we in enslavement to party loyalty and white groups are not?
Having wealth is about having choices to pursue careers rather than just have a job. When I spoke of the average white household have 20 times the net worth of the average black one, do you think that might have something to do as to the 'why' of lower educational attainment? That is data that is a statistical fact.
I can't argue with you about the wisdom of not having children that you cannot support. But, much of the reason that Whites and Asians do better is that they have the money.
The advocates as the party of conservatives and plutocrats I don't trust to bring any parity to our economic situation. Being to 'big to fail' is the outcome of conservative economic principles to trust the 'big guy' to act responsibly without regulation. We all know where that got us.
The BLS doesn't include people not on unemployment. So yes, I do deny their data.
How do you stop the structural problems? That is what Congress is supposed to do, but they have allowed super global conglomerate monopolies to become bigger than the US government can actually handle. Mergers and acquisitions create monopolies and monopolies can control supply, and remove competition. They also put small to medium businesses out of business. It was the SMB that made America different and better than those other countries around the world.
Neither party handled it in 2008, and later.
The party loyalty will keep you and the minorities in virtual enslavement, much like the feudal system kept the King in control of his subjects. True no one know more about YOUR situation than you do, but that is not true of knowing about the handouts for the minorities.
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Among Hispanics, the total fertility rate is 2.4. For non-Hispanic whites and for non-Hispanic Asians, it is 1.8. Non-Hispanic blacks (2.1) have higher fertility than whites but lower fertility than Hispanics.
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Among black and Hispanic mothers, births peak among women in their early 20s. For white and Asian mothers, births peak among women in their late 20s and early 30s. Looking at educational attainment differences among groups, most white and Asian mothers are college educated, while most Hispanic and black mothers are not.
In 2009, according to the National Center for Health Statistics, 41% of births were to unmarried mothers, but the shares varied for different groups: 53% for Hispanics, 29% for non-Hispanic whites and 73% for non-Hispanic blacks.
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How does producing more children while not paying into the system help either them or the country?
More children is also more welfare and benefits, but the burden is on the people that actually pay taxes.
BTW, I don't believe in Agree to DisAgree as it serves no useful purpose. Make a good argument, and I consider it, and I have changed my opinion in the past. Make a bad argument, and I have to call on it.
Thanks
- Author
Sorry, you are not listening, Bureau of Labor statistics is an infallible Government source for the information that I am sharing with you, do you deny its authority?
The structural problems in the economy means that we are not returning to an earlier era of prosperity. Whose fault is that, outsourcing, automation? How do you stop those things?
My best candidate is the one that promotes power to the masses and not the affluent That positive candidate and positive change is Bernie Sanders. So, I have already done it.
I am black and don't think that anybody knows more about my situation than do I. We agree to disagree, but Blacks and the left generally are always going to have problems with your assessment of things, that why we vote Democrat.
Thanks again for an interesting and most revealing discourse
Credence2
It is futile for me to go over this again.
I don't know what white you reference that have the resources that you mention.
The Blacks can't even get out of public school where everyone has access to it.
The economy has not rebounded, millions of people that lost their jobs in 2008 just gave up, after many also lost their homes. Obama didn't help them. Those jobs never came back, they are gone forever, and it took both parties to make that happen.
Once again both parties don't care about the middle class. The democrats want the Black and Hispanic votes so they give them welfare, and bend the law as well.
If you want to see a positive change, for the best candidate, and if they are all bad take away your party loyalty. Let them come to you for your independent vote by producing better candidates, and keep more of their promises.
I will stop here because, I will only repeat myself. Much of what I have said is already in my hubs. I am neither dem or repub, as I blame both of them for failing the country. I blame the loyal party voters for allowing them the opportunity to do it.
Thanks
- Author
Brad, I don't blame the whites for everything, as discussed in the second we are our own worst enemy in many areas. But, the reason we are where we are is not all the fault of Blacks either.
I did not deny that there are white examples of poverty, I am saying that Government statistics are more reliable when it says that FAR more blacks are subjected to poverty and have considerably less wealth than do whites. Why, such an incredible disparity, I mean, they can't all be just lazy?
You speak of subjective concepts, I am talking about hard statistics and what explains those.
Yes, we have a problem with crime in certain communities among the younger men. But, is the criminal justice system free of bias so that minorities are treated fairly by law enforcement and the courts, I doubt it. How much does that have to do with the outcome? I can bring statistics to support this to the forefront upon your request.
I can't justify the birth rate of certain group relative to others, I can just say that we all are going to have to get ready for more brown skinned kids in the future.
Their are many cultural problems as to why blacks do not embrace educational opportunities the way that they should. I have spoken about that in Part II.
Again, not having financial resources makes it difficult to pursue higher education, that you say, the average white possesses.
Obama was in error in pursuing the healthcare controversy initially, I will give you that. But the economy has rebounded, who gives him credit for that, while it tanked during GW Bush's watch?
Credence2
I disagree with you on the causes of the economic meltdown. It was started by the democrats, and continued on with the republicans and the democrats didn't stop or try to stop it.
President Obama put his democrat controlled congress on healthcare, as he deserted the financial plight of the victims of the economic meltdown. The banks got bailout money, and they used it to pay the executives that caused their financial institution to fail, seven figure bonuses. Obama and the democrats did nothing.
The banks also refused to loan their bailout money to other banks, much less to the victims of the meltdown. People lost their homes, their jobs, and Obama didn't care.
I give the credit of the failure of the economy, the loss of jobs, and the loss of homes to both parties. And my opinion is that no one should give either party any voting loyalty.
The average white person, has an education, usually a college degree, is not on welfare, and is not usually involved with gangs or criminal activity. Busing has shown that it is not the different school environment that makes the white students better, as the blacks went to those same schools, and some of the whites went to the black schools.
When I went to school, we had a three track system, and the 3rd track was vocational, or trade related.
As far as making education more available, that is a red herring. Everyone has the same access to public education for K-12. And while I contend that it is a poor system, the whites and Asians seem to do well, while the Blacks and Hispanics not so well.
There are generations of families on welfare, and minorities seem to be prolific in producing more future students than the majority. The people that can least afford to have children have the most children, and the most abortions.
Are there more blacks and Hispanics in jail because the system is out to get them, or is it because they have a higher propensity to commit crimes?
I can understand from my youth growing up in the lower East Side of Manhattan that life on the streets really can give you tunnel vision as to what are your options when you finish school, providing you live that long.
A ghetto is not a physical entity, it is a human entity. You can take the people out of the ghetto, but it is hard to take the ghetto out of the people.
And it has the same effect on all races in my opinion. I didn't even think about options for my life until I left Manhattan.
I am sure that there are white children in some parts of the country that have as many problems as the minorities.
The disparity of wealth distribution in this country, in my opinion, directly related to the Income Tax System. It discriminates against the wage earner.
The blue collar worker was once the mainstream of the middle class, it now has fallen, as both parties allow jobs, and businesses to leave the country.
- Author
Thanks for reading the article,
Yes, Brad, you are right there are contributing causes to the 2008 meltdown, but the very concept of deregulating so powerful and dangerous an entity with the threat to the entire economy was unwise and GOP driven.
Look now and see who is providing the greatest resistance to the reinstatement of Glass-Stegall, it is not the liberals.....
The banksters are quick the blame the poor who they say were given loans by them because the government had a gun at their heads and forced them to make irresponsible loans to people that could not pay them. The 'toxic' assets they bundled and sold at record profits. I don't buy their laying their greed at the feet of their poor clients. They did not do this out of the kindness of their hearts, they stood to profit for the risk and we all know that.
No, it is not just about 10 percent of the whites, the Bureau of Labor Statistics makes it clear that the difference between the average level of wealth between blacks and whites are astounding. I mean, you can't argue with BLS and our individual and personal circumstances are not relevant compared to these national statistics, I reiterate, the average white has 20 times the net worth of the average black person in America. How is that that possible, when we all live in the same country? How do you explain it? So, how is that difference explained by our merely using terms like African-american, Negro, Black, Colored, whatever?
The problem is the need to make education accessible to more people and as I mentioned to you before, it is a form of leveling the playing field. As I say and statistics say, better educated people do better in the job market. That is how the most of US that have managed to do well, had done it. We need to emphasize trade schools that focus on the skills needed for the future as alternatives to students that are not on an academic track.
Credence2
First let me say, and you can verify it from my hubs, I have problems with both parties.
I will repeat my mantra, neither party has had or has the solutions, but both parties have generated the problems. Both of them working against each other causes gridlock, and when one is in control it tears or tries to tear down what every the other party was doing when it was in control.
You say-------------------------------
when you consider how the Republicans and their economic philosophy virtually destroyed the economy over the first decade of this century culminating with the September 2008 meltdown, it was hard for any Democratic contender to lose, even if he is black and considered ‘not one of us’ by many Anglos
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The 2008 meltdown was actually started during the Clinton Administration. They started the, in my words, anyone can own a home, even if they can't afford it. The republicans helped by canceling out the protection of the Glass Stegall Act.
With no protection, the financial industry went on full speed with no brakes. They created some very bad investment and loans. They were helped by the Federal Reserve Board because these loans were so fragile that any increase in the interest rates would have drowned many of the loans. The FHA, along with Freddie and Fannie made these ridiculous Sub Prime loans, and in some cases with negative amortization.
..... Washington, D.C., Dec. 16, 2011 — The Securities and Exchange Commission today charged six former top executives of the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae) and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac) with securities fraud, alleging they knew and approved of misleading statements claiming the companies had minimal holdings of higher-risk mortgage loans, including subprime loans.
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Congress is divided by both parties going in different directions, while the financial industry become too big for even the government to control. Obama did nothing to change that in the last 7 years.
Both parties failed here, as usual.
There is much more but this should give some light on where I am coming from on your statement.
The loyal party voters are the core of the problem, and the voters should realize that both the democrats and republicans are shrinking the middle class. The democrats want the poor to vote for them, and the republicans want the middle class and rich think it is their party.
The Middle Class has no party representation in government.
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You talk about Anglo wealth, then you are talking about the 10% people, not the average Anglo.
My family didn't have money. I grew up in Manhattan, and than on Long Island. I went to a 2 yr college, and I had to drop out and get a job after the 1st year. Then I took college courses at night, until I got married. I got married moved to CA, and we had three children. I worked 60 hours a week, and took 12 units at UC Long Beach. This went on for a dozen years, at which time I had a divorce before I got my BS degree. I continued on and four more years, I got my MS degree.
I know a lot more people like me. Although, I do know people that actually went to a 4 year college, and just partied and didn't have to work while they were in collage.
There are many successful non sports business people that are Black, but they are the exception. I am a bad judge of why that is because living close to LA, there is too much crime in the city, and too many gangs. So, the blacks seems to flourish in the gangs, but I don't see too many of them in good salaried jobs.
I don't know what it is like in Florida, or anyplace else. Although I didn't see it in northern CA as much.
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Education is not the solution
We need to change the goal of education to that of getting a job where you can raise a family, and have some extras. K-12 needs to be revamped to include a high school degree that is equivalent to a two year college. Then the four year college would be chopped to only two years.
There is no movement on doing this, but I think it would be a step in the right direction.
It is strange that we hear some many complaints about some many students having a hard time with the current system. It would then be impossible for them to pass in the suggested system.
on to part 2
Back at you Jon, Peace and Blessings.
Credence2
''a lot in common'' WE LOVE OUR COUNTRY!
Today in Washington, right is wrong and wrong is right, sad to say.'' we are a nation of the rule of law'' Definately not in today's government.
- Author
"Cred, you worked for the federal government, live on the islands and have an'' other ''for a wife "
Indeed, Jon, we probably have a lot in common, our political views just is not one of them. We will have to chat about that sometime during a truce.
junko
Your opinions are well respected, keep an open mind and you will attain the final goal '' knowledge is power ''
Have a blessed holiday on sunday.
Jon, I have a liberal arts approach to politics and Iam not swayed by the propaganda on either side. I just express my own opinions based on what I see and hear.
junko
'' Jon, holler at a brother'' I accept the fact that my brothers have not got by the propaganda of the . gov sites. Without another view how would anyone understand what's going on in the country.
Credence2
'' opposition to Obama policies is a relevant response.''
Can anyone explain Obama's policies in the past 4 years that has worked to improve the job market and the economy?
Cred, you worked for the federal government, live on the islands and have an'' other ''for a wife.
Kind of funny THAT we have something in common.I guess that's what makes the world go around.(My 2 sons )
- Author
Hi, Junko, what's shakin'. I had no doubt that you would see where I was going with the article and its theme.
As for Jon, even when I discuss the virtue of macadamia nuts over pistacios, somewhere his opposition to Obama policies is a relevant response.
I am going to drop by and see what mischief you have been involved in since I had seen you last.
Credence I thought that this was a new hub until I saw your first post. I just wanted to say I see what you see and saw what you saw. I also see "The Suit" has been on the job passing out links. He not a bigot, he just have a one sided view. Jon, holler at a brother some time for no reason, I'll follow you if you follow me,lol. Good bird's eye view Credence.
- Author
Jon, I still hold out more for Obama's effort than anything conceivable via the GOP
Credence2
'' A Message from and to Black America Part I''
The message in 2008 '' promises'' Barak Obama Campaign Promises
https://hubpages.com/politics/barakobamacampaignpr...
Obama promised hope and change will be coming to Washington
- Author
Hi, Jeff, yes it is two faced to the extreme and oddly enough the rightwinger runs with tail between the legs whenever you want to confront them with the glaring contradiction. We all vote, move and act in packs while they remain individuals not necessarily judged on a group basis.
I hate to admit this, but in many ways we have not gone forward but have gone back. All this does not bode well for race relationships in this society, the thin veneer of civility is fast giving way....
Thanks again for dropping by.
"This idea that blacks supported Obama only because he is black is the biggest obcession that the White -Right continues to nurse despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary."
And while arguing that Obama's supporters only voted for him because he's Black, they insist that race has nothing to do with anybody's /opposition/ to Obama. Funny how that works....
- Author
Thanks GM for reading and commenting. This idea that blacks supported Obama only because he is black is the biggest obcession that the White -Right continues to nurse despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Obama is the single focus of ire for those that have anxiety over changing demographics inthis country.
In a followup article, I like to think that I have identified many of the problems that you mentioned in your forum message. It is or appears to be a sea change in regards to a rethink of attitude and approach to avoid repeating mistakes of clinging to that which has not been beneficial in the past.
This was a heartfelt article. While the racial climate concerning Blacks and Whites have improved over the decades, there are some areas that need improvement. Yes, President Obama was elected and many people of every race and ethnic group were influential in his election. There are many Whites who feel quite threatened and dismayed that he was elected because of his race. They wanted things to be the way they have always been. However, there has to be change and continuing evolution.
There are Blacks who expect President Obama to rescue them and ease their socioeconomic woes. However, many of those Blacks must look into their socioeconomic situation and take responsibility for themselves. Of course, there is racism, overt and covert, in American society. Let's not be fooled into illustory delusion that racism is not present but Blacks have to start taking responsibility for their sociocultural and socioeconomic dilemmas. If many Blacks want to improve their situation and to progress as a people, they must adopt a more positivistic agenda and be more proactive in improving their communities and schools. They should also stop being mainly consumers but start establishing businesses and enterprises in their communities. Black people can no longer blame the outer society for their dilemma. They must look towards themselves to progress and build their communities.
- Author
Hi, Jeff, thanks for having a look and providing meaningful comment. This article for obvious reasons was quite controversial.
Mr. Obama has tried hard to take a race neutral position on national policies since, after all, he is there to serve all of us. I would expect no less.
I have noticed the tendency to hold Mr. Obama to a standard that did not apply to former presidents or candidates for the office. The fact that he is from Hawaii and not Kansas adds to the intrigue.
When I wrote this article, I did not want to castigate anyone, but explain the reality as to how we all got here and offer a few suggestions as to how we can move forward. There is considerable work that remains, but to confer with someone that is not afraid to step outside the ‘bubble’ is the beginning of solutions. Through your candor, I learn a great deal as to how Anglos see things. We all know that the ideal and reality are often times far apart. I have had trouble coming to agreement with others as to what constitutes the ideal verses what is reality. I like to say that it not our fault exclusively as to how Black folks got into this mess and yet it is not solely the Anglos’ fault as to why we remain in it.
As you so poignantly noted, just because we are taught that there are no differences and that everybody is equal does not mean that this is the reality on the ground. I t is much like being asked to run a foot race over several laps when you have been tied up and not released to run until most of the other runners have completed a couple of laps and add on to this the fact that you run with only one sneaker instead of two. The self worth issue is a very good point that you have made, To say that failure by the other guy is due to his or her own shortcomings allows them to avoid admitting that perhaps they are not a self-made as they would have everyone believe. Or perhaps there are faults in the system that discredit the ideal of equal opportunity for everyone, it would be devastating for them to acknowledge this possibility. So, it is easier to remain in a state of denial, even when the truth is right under your nose.
You said, “Every time you point this stuff out, though, you're going to get CWGs (Clueless White Guys) getting all defensive and maybe even accusing you of "reverse-racism." Not because they're racist themselves, but because nobody wants to feel like their benefiting from institutionalized racism--it kind of makes them racist by extension, and everyone knows that racists are bad people, right”
Most profound, similar approaches were used to justify slavery, questioning the humanity of the slave rather than question the morality of holding another in bondage for your own economic advantage. I certainly don’t want anyone to freak out over all of this, but can we seriously search for the truth? It is difficult to get anyone to see, if that are determined not to look
Again thanks for weighin in and you will have to drop by and let me know that you have something that you have written if I happen to miss.
RJ
Credence2, I think your observations are dead on.
I'm disappointed, but not surprised, at the defensive reaction to your article from some White readers.
You're right that a lot of White Americans seem to think that if Black Americans start doing better, it must be because White Americans are somehow losing ground.
You're right that a lot of White Americans have been saying things that betray a subconscious racism (or maybe it's a conscious racism that they are deliberately hiding in double-speak because they know that overt racism will be condemned, and that if someone calls them on their racist subtext, they can use verbal judo to make it look like the other guy is the real racist).
You're right that it's not unreasonable for Black Americans to expect that the first Black president will maybe pay more attention to the Black community than our White presidents have done, and you're right that a lot of White Americans have done their very best to make President Obama look scary and foreign, for example, carefully emphasizing his Arab-sounding middle name, which happens to be the same as the first name of the erstwhile dictator of Iraq, to make sure everyone notices how very /different/ he is from "real" Americans. When candidate Obama bumped fists with his wife at a public appearance, conservative talking heads freaked out, calling it a "terrorist fist-bump," when everyone knows that a fist-bump is /very/ mainstream, even in White America. Then there's the birthers, who did their best to convince everyone that Obama wasn't actually born in the US. (Some people call these kinds of things "othering.")
And of course, your right that a lot of White Americans don't understand why Black Americans don't pull themselves up by their bootstraps because a lot of White Americans assume that everyone has boots. That is, White Americans are often blind to their own privilege.
Part of the problem is that we've taught ourselves that discrimination is bad, and that all people are equal. No, really! Consider:
We've had it drilled into our heads since the 1970s that it's always wrong to treat people differently based on their color or race or creed or whatever. That's good, right? Because under the skin, everyone's basically the same, we're all human beings, all Americans together, and nobody should get special treatment--everyone should be treated the same.
Except we've internalized this message so well that we assume that everyone is not only equal under the law, but they actually do have equal opportunities and therefore any hardship they encounter is--HAS to be--entirely due to their own shortcomings.
Because we're told that it's bad to assume differences, we make the mistake of assuming that everyone has equal advantages, and when it's pointed out that Black Americans don't have the same access to capital, higher education, good (or even adequate!) K-12 schools, reliable childcare, nutritious food, connections in business, etc etc etc, we say to ourselves "But discrimination is wrong!" to absolve ourselves from doing anything to help Black Americans gain access to all the advantages that White Americans take for granted (and pretend aren't advantages).
Why? Because many White Americans think (and this is very important to their sense of self-worth) that they're self-made--that they earned (and therefore deserve) everything they've got through their own hard work and discipline. Further, they believe that with enough hard work and discipline, /anyone/ can earn as much for themselves. Acknowledging that they had help (maybe someone gave them a car as a graduation gift; maybe their parents paid for their college tuition; maybe their uncle knew someone at the bank) means that they're not self-made; that they might not deserve everything they've got after all; and that it's not exactly fair that another person might not have gotten a free car, a free education, and an "in" at the company they applied at which got them a better, higher-paying job than they might otherwise have gotten.
Every time you point this stuff out, though, you're going to get CWGs (Clueless White Guys) getting all defensive and maybe even accusing you of "reverse-racism." Not because they're racist themselves, but because nobody wants to feel like their benefiting from institutionalized racism--it kind of makes them racist by extension, and everyone knows that racists are bad people, right? Plus, the conservative political machine has done an excellent job of convincing mainstream White Americans that "Welfare Queens" not only exist, but are the norm, and are mostly Black. In reality, most of the people who receive public assistance are White, but we don't like to talk about that!
Your observations are reasonable and very fair. When White guys freak out at them, it's because sometimes the truth can make people feel very uncomfortable.
- Author
Thanks, JOhn but what does this comment have to do with the subject matter of this hub?
Credence2 10
Know the candidates.
THE SHARED AGENDAS OF BARACK OBAMA
A fundamental plan for the US Government
http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_31606...
Joyce Foundation's Board of Directors was Barack Obama,
Know your candidate for the presidency
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/funderProfile.a...
Willard Mitt Romney
https://giancarlolorenzo.hubpages.com/question/191...
False Attacks on GST steel
http://www.mittromney.com/blogs/mitts-view/2012/06
Rep. Paul Ryan defends GOP budget plan Chris Wallace
http://wn.com/Paul_Ryan_on_Fox_News_Sunday_with_Ch.../videos
Ryan and Van Hollen Debate Medicare Proposals 6/3/11 '' THE TRUTH ''
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/06/03/ryan-and-van-...
Mark the calendar, Oct. 03, 2012 will be the first Presidential debate.
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Jon, Yes, character matters when running for President, that is why I don't want to see Romney elected. Where are his tax returns?
Credence2
Hope and change is coming to Washington?
Obama chief strategist David Axelrod
Live and uncut, scare tactics?
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday/2012...
Paul Ryan on 'Hannity'
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1797716109001/exclusive...
vision for the future
Character matters when running for President
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Hi, PHD, I had to consider as this article was being written that it would stir up a veritable hornest nest of commentary. I am prepared and look forward to hearing all sides and engaging in reasonable dialogue whenever possible. The "other side' sometimes may have a good point, I just have to discover what that is
Thank you for taking the time to read and comment
Hello Credence - Trying to catch up on some older posts today. Excellent, well argued, well written hub. You have the patience of a veritable Job. I do not know how you continue engaging with people like you do. You have my admiration.
I noted the lengthy comments by Thomas - pretty solid, it seemed to me. Thanks for all the time and energy you put into this debate. I have to believe that some people are hearing and understanding. Now, on to Part Two. :).
GA Anderson
''
but... I still believe the "red phone" was a silly gimmick' yes , I guess so.
@Jon - thanks for the effort to find and post the link
but...I would not have been an avid Beck viewer if I doubted the accuracy of his points - I believe he presented many important "connections" the public would not have known without him
but... I still believe the "red phone" was a silly gimmick
GA
GA
''validate his point. It was a ploy - nothing more.''
Yes it was to validate the truth about what he was saying. Are you aware that president Obama predicted what is happening in the middle east and what has happened on wallstreet and other city protests?
Beck exposed Soros, the AFL-CIO and SEIU unions, the media and what our dear President is doing to the country.
I heard he is on the internet. CHECK THIS SITE, a little background info.http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/printgroupProfi...
@Jon Ewall - your mention of the "red phone - direct line" was a tongue-in-cheek" reference wasn't it?
You don't really think it was anything more than a gimmick do you?
I was a HUGE Beck fan, until his format for his message changed - he went off the deep end with the religious tone. And he got too "cutsey" with the sarcasm.
I was a diligent viewer during the series of shows with the "red phone", and I cringed every time he tried to use that to validate his point. It was a ploy - nothing more.
GA
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Thanks, Jon, I will try again...
Credence2
WHEN YOU GET TO THE SITE LOOK IN THE OTHER VIDEOS.
It's in'' Founders' Fridays (11 videos) ''
check becks other videos. the red phone line was a direct to the whitehouse. idea was if he did not report the truth , the white house can call to correct him online. the PHONE NEVER RANG!
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Jon, the link you gave me was Glen Beck's farewall show, did not see anything about black heroes in American history.
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Jon, if Obama had not approved extension of the Bush tax cuts, then all those receiving unemployment benefits would have been cut off by the GOP, if memory serves.
CRED2
Black Heroes in American History
Save our Country
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/glenn-beck/index.htm.../v/4256317/black-heroes-in-american-history/?playlist_id=163229
CRED2
2/13/10 NOTE ! TODAY IS NOV. 25,2011
President Barack Obama is hailing pay-as-you-go BUDGET legislation he signed Friday night as one in a series of crucial steps needed to snap Washington out of a destructive pattern of overspending.
Simply a beautiful move before the Nov 2010 election. CRED2 IT'S ALL ABOUT SMOKE AND MIRRORS.
Do you remember Obama approved the Bush Tax cuts, later on after the election he said he shouldn't have passed the legislation.
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Sounds fine, John, we will talk again, Cred2
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Pay-GO sounds fine on the surface, Jon. I need to do aliitle research on the subject in regards to what it is you're not telling me.
The GOP is the very antithesis of fiscal responsibility. They too have their run on the piggy bank, just in different areas.
Your precious DOD is now going to be subject to the knife, that is a pay-go I can live with.
@credence2 - followed your link....damnn...
It was obvious that you had a point you wanted to make, but I am not familiar enough with this "Norquest(?)" thing, yet, to comment specifically, but I will return there when I have more time.
It was only a quick read, as I said time is tight, but it did seem a little overstated
as to the OP here, yes we will have to agree to disagree.
seems true the GOP did have their feet planted, reasonable or not
but it also seems the cuts the Dems are touting as "honest efforts" to compromise weren't really cuts at all, but reductions in proposed increases.
but, let me qualify that - gotta admit that is a very topical response, I haven't really dug beyond the shouted accusations of either side yet
from the beginning the SC thingie seemed like just such obvious political theater that I never really got interested enough to dig deeper.
to me, even its creation was an embarrassment, and the outcome is no less than I would have expected.
hmmm... still think it's a circle-jerk, so I probably won't look any deeper. It's yours if you want it.
talk to ya later
GA
Cred2
Just to fill you in to the past:
On 9/28/11, Senator Reid announced that he will not bring up the President's Job Bill to the Senate floor. Senator Reid sponsored the bill in the Senate and it is becoming clearer that the Republicans are not holding up passage of the Jobs Bill as the president says on the campaign trail. President Obama needs to make a call to Senator Reid.
On 11/23/11, IN RESPONSE TO PRESIDENT OBAMA'S accusations, Speaker Boehner requested Obama to instruct Senator Reid to pass the 25 jobs bills passed by the House sitting in the Senate. The true battle is all about a Pay-Go law passed by Congress. The democrats want to spend more without cutting somewhere to pay for the spending.
The mainstream media and press has not reported the events. One needs to get by the propaganda being fed to the people by President Obama & company.
2/13/10 2:04 PM EST NOTE ! TODAY IS NOV. 23,2011
President Barack Obama is hailing pay-as-you-go BUDGET legislation he
signed Friday night as one in a series of crucial steps needed to snap
Washington out of a destructive pattern of overspending.
“Now, Congress will have to pay for what it spends, just like everybody
else,” Obama said in his radio and Internet address released Saturday
morning. “After a decade of profligacy, the American people are tired of
politicians who talk the talk but don’t walk the walk when it comes to
fiscal responsibility. It’s easy to get up in front of the cameras and RANT
against exploding deficits. What’s hard is actually getting deficits under
control. But that’s what we must do.”
The PAYGO compels NEW spending or tax changes to not add to the
federal deficit. Not to be confused with pay-as-you-go financing, which
is when a government saves up money to fund a specific project. Under
the PAYGO rules a new proposal must either be "budget neutral"
or offset with savings derived from existing funds.[1] The goal of this
is to require those in control of the budget to engage in the diligence of
prioritizing expenses and exercising fiscal restraint. The interest on
the national debt is $1 billion a day and rising. The unfunded
liabilities of the country is $104 trillion.
The Republicans simply don’t want to break the law, they are fighting for the TAXPAYERS.
Obama and the Democrats don’t tell you the whole truth, do they?
Note that the House has approved a 2012 budget, the President and the Senate has not. ONLY 1/3 of our government is working, the other 2/3’s want to talk and BLAME THE OTHER GUY.
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I have looked at the concept of racism for a long time. Perhaps it is just human nature to favor those that look and believe as you do.
We all have to rise to higher plane to recognize that this culture will unravel unless fairness and equality is available to all within it.
I may walk around the house in my BVDs, but once I am outside I am properly attired in the respect of others. There are still too many people that believe that it is appropriate to walk around outdoors in their BVDs
It is much about power and control, but it has adverse effects on those that practice it. The energy so many spend in this control could best be channeled in the interests of coexistence, since each of us only have one life and we can live on only one planet. (In terms of current technology)
Thanks again, Cred2
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Jon, As I understand it the president was advised to stay away during the process. After all, these are big boys and girls that knew the score.
There is no way that the Dems are going to allow the GOP to make drastic cuts over social programs, virtually destroying them, without some serious concession on tax revenue. It is dead in the water.
The president did not lack leadership and the GOP continues in its obstinancy. We are just going to have to settle this at the polls,next year. OWS will help keep the issues involved in sharp focus for everybody.
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Hi, GA, just using the term which sounds so much less painful. It was coined during the Reagan-Bush I years.
I did try to take into consideration, MSNBC's so called liberal bias, but the sheer difference in the numbers are astonishing. I bet FOX news would not do a comparable survey for fear that the results would upset its conservative audience.
We may have to agree to disagree on this one, seems to me that the GOP was much more obstinate about taxes than the Dems were about cutting spending
https://hubpages.com/politics/Tea-Party-Intransige...
Be warned, it cuts deep!Thanks Cred2
Hello Cred2: All valid points for sure. It is too bad people cannot step aside of themselves and experience the world through the eyes and emotions of those they oppress or defame. This, of course, would be the ultimate in understanding. However, since we have not this ability, (nor do I think that it is a necessity) we have to understand that we are all of mankind.
The best way to remove the “crumb” analogy, is to remove the table itself from the equation. A leveling, if you will, to cause a conjoined existence. Some religions speak of the races being separated by God for a reason. They point to this as their escape from responsibility. However, they miss the inference that we are “all of one blood.”
This prejudice, this racism, has baffled this writer for the entirety of his life. I, in the past, studied the KKK and several other racialist groups at length trying to get an understanding of why these people proclaim their ideology as right. I came up empty handed of deeper understanding, and remorseful that these people and their progeny were amongst us. It is unfortunate that even the media tends to these lines to some extent. It has not been lost on me either of the unbalanced coverage between black and white, on whatever the issue or occurrence. The thing is…will these depressive prejudices ever be removed from the psyche of mankind?
Thanks for commenting back, the fan mail, and following. I, too, look forward to our conversations.
Thomas Thyros.
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Thanks Thomas for reading and providing so thoughtful a reply.
I will say Thomas that the onslaught of ignorance as you allude to by so many was overwhelming and impossible to ignore. Your inference that racism is the “handle” used by the frightened and uncertain is simplistic as only superficial evaluation of the issue at hand is required. I knew that this existed, but so many? People are oftentimes intellectually lazy so it is simpler to apply a label over employing critical thinking skills.
Thomas, the truth may well be that we are all being manipulated by malevolent forces that seek to divide and conquer. They will have us fuss over the crumb that fall from the table of bounty, but if we could only see what goodies were actually on the table from which the crumb fell. It may not so much be black and white but more black and red. It comes down to have verses have not. Being white is no longer the advantage it once was, not to say that we necessarily benefited as minority groups. Poor and non-affluent is the same, now whether you are black, white or anything else. The middle class is getting the attention, as they holler the loudest. The society is full of people who get by marginally, working more than one job a day, still to find themselves under the poverty line. But, as I have said in my article, the sheer numbers reflect most poorly on blacks and Hispanics, generally. It is not intended to rule out others.
Blacks have been slow in the beginning to work with Occupy simply due to the fact that the things that middle class whites complain about have always been par for the course for us and nothing new. Of course, now that so many that have always had the voice and prerogative have fallen from grace… It is much like that story of the missing Caucasian woman in Aruba. Look at all the press the story received, there are probably many more minority or poor women that disappear every day and that hardly merits a whisper
In a consumer based society like ours there is a stigma associated with not having or not having enough. The message is sent to us consciously and subconsciously everyday. Thurston Howell is never going to acknowledge that he too could find himself among the unfortunate. They too, are afflicted in their own way, for them to not have is equal to not being, there is a better chance of the earth reversing its rotation. It’s inconceivable to them
It could well turn out that in the class warfare that the conservatives say that progressives are fomenting, it is analogous to attacking Iraq in retaliation for 9/11, instead of Afghanistan. Class warfare is not new, in fact it is as old as the pharaohs. The real question is can there be a fair balance of power between groups. One side cannot dominate to the annihilation of the other side.
Again Thomas thanks for weighing in… Cred2
Credence2
‘’I blame the GOP ‘’ so does President Obama and the Democrats. The failure is ALL President Obama’s failure to show up to the party! Wow, why BLAME THE PRESIDENT?
IF ONE UNDERSTANDS how legislation becomes law , you can agree that the President has failed to provide the leadership necessary ( a third party ) to arrive at a solution to FINALIZE a deal between the rival ideologies.
The founders of the US Constitution produced a document ( US Constitution ) that provided checks and balances in how the government makes laws. Congress, the House and the Senate, must agree on legislation before the legislation goes to the President for his signature. Without the agreement by ALL 3 PARTIES nothing becomes law, THAT’S A FACT.
The super committee was made up of equal members of each party who failed to arbitrate an AGREEMENT to present to the President (3rd party ). President Obama was AWOL in the final days of the debate and in addition of not providing his leadership to wrap up a deal to solve the problems. Shameful neglect of his duties as the President.
Today, Nov.22, 2011 while campaigning in New Hampshire , President Barack Obama again blamed the Republicans for the failure of the Super Committee , forgetting to place any blame on members of his own party. One can recall some of Obama’s past words ,’’ THE BUCK STOPS HERE’’. Somehow one can see through him and who he really has become. Remember these words, ‘’ you can fool some of the people some of the time but you can’t fool all the people all the time’’.
@Credence2 - I'm surprised at you!
Revenue enhancements? Come on say the real words - tax increases!
and seriously - MSNBC? Would you expect them to announce a poll with any other outcome? about the same chance as Fox news announcing a negative GOP poll.
Even so - You are correct on the point that the GOP has blame to shoulder - but only half of it.
The Dems get the other half for their obstinate behavior also.
SC was a doomed blame game from the beginning - the only thing either side was bargaining for was the upper hand.
GA
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Funny thing Jon, I blame the GOP for not seriously addressing the issue of revenue enhancements. I believe the GOP is just stalling hoping that they can get a congressional majority next year so that can be free as they want. I would not count on it though, and MSNBC pole put the blame solidly on the GOP for failure to negotiate in resounding numbers. Check it out Happy holidays
Hello credence,
First, let me say this is a great hub and it is well said and well thought out. Secondly, I am Caucasian and live in the Mid-West; an area where racism and all manner of prejudices seem to be acceptable; however, I am not, nor do I condone or accept these.
When one begins to consider racism in all of its malevolent stations, only the closed-minded see it as a correct or moral thought. Racism, indeed prejudice, knows no intellectual level or station in life. No authority needs to be given to the angle of spin which may be put upon it, nor from which group or entity from which it is extended; prejudice is wrong and rotten to its very core.
It is unfortunate, that in our times, race is still an accepted mode of argument; a route to take on a troublesome issue, or a weapon to be wielded at the hands of someone less than informed about the subject for which they argue. It is often the libretto of troglodytes who lay their problems at the feet of those they wish not to understand. Therefore, it is assimilated into the political arguments of today, just as it has been throughout our nation’s history.
There is no doubt as to the extended period of time for which the African-American has endured the darkness of oppression and financial hardship. These facts are charted throughout our history and continue to be a chartable issue today. If you will allow, I wish also to include another segment of the populous into these numbers, that of whites, those poor in station, in rural America.
As aforementioned, I live in a small town in the Mid-West. Here, we continue to experienced much of the same plight as other minorities. Education is cut off from these people and the unemployment rates are calamitous. Here, we are experiencing unemployment rates at depression era levels. There are no jobs to be found and many have alighted to other areas of the country to find relief. The reason I bring this to your attention is not to belittle or equate your argument, but only to inform that these people are many times forgotten. Our media, (which I too question as to their liberality) as well as our government, only speak of the “middle-class,” thus leaving the poor and worker poor completely out of the issue.
While I support the Occupy movement, I believe that if it were not for the middle-class becoming affected by our present economic plight, the much-maligned poor and working poor would still be a forgotten group. In the end, these whites, have not the advantages for which some may think they are accustomed, nor is the experience something removed from their grasp as a result of our governments ineptitude.
It is correct that those in the disenfranchised groups must work much harder to sustain their families and themselves. Additionally, while there are many blacks using social services, many poor and working poor are as well, regardless of color or creed. However, this should not be viewed as some kind of a deduction of the human being. For, survival is embedded within the genetics of every one of us, and those who point a condemnatory finger at those who are less fortunate, should be relegated to these lower stations for a time to gain some understanding of these trails.
In closing, it is this writers belief that race should never be an ax used to chop at the neck of a problem…societal or otherwise. It is prejudice, in all of its many renderings, that is causative of many or most of our present happenings and problems. Prejudice is the demon guarding the gate of avariciousness, and it bites at the flesh of anyone it deems a threat. It is present in the racial problems we experience still today, and it is present in our current class war as well.
Thanks for posting your Hub.
Thomas Thyros.
Credence2
It's all about smoke and mirrors, the cuts if it happens don't take effect until 2013.The Democrat/Obama plan is a stall tactic, the Obama administration continues spending while the Senate delays voting on job legislation passed by the House. President Obama held a press conference today, Nov. 21,2011, again blaming the Republicans when it is the Senate's inability to act on legislation passed in the House. Typical Obama press conference where no questions are allowed from the news media. Congress next move should be to start cutting waste out of government,$4 TRILLION for starters.
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Jon, on your last comment, I agree wholeheartedly. It looks like the SC is in stall mode. They better get it together soon or automatic cuts are to be expected and the GOP is already nervous about the defense cuts that they will have to live with because their could not come to an agreement with the Dems. Happy holidays to you as well.
Credence2
''both sides involved in using the SS Fund ''It started with the President Johnson administration.The answer is yes they both are guilty.
A copy of an e-mail that I sent to the Speaker,Senator Reid and all members of the super committee on Sat.
Dear Speaker Boehner/ Senate Leader Reid
The President promised open and transparent government. The Super Committee working behind closed doors have not agreed to a resolution on the deficit and 2012 budget.
We the people have had enough of the statements coming from the party leaders.
We the people DEMAND that future meetings of the Super Committee be held in OPEN session without any censure of the proceedings. It is important for we the people to witness each sides positions in the debate.
We the people will be making a decision in the near future as to whom we will cast a vote for in the coming months. To deny our request would be a dereliction of duty to the electorate who sent you to Washington.
You are the 2 leaders in Congress who have the power to grant our request to open meetings. There should be complete cooperation in the matter.
Sincerely,
Troubled voters and taxpayers.
It’s time for Congress to make the cuts necessary to approve the agreement. There is $9 trillion in waste in the government, cutting $ 4 trillion should not be a problem. It was reported today that the US government ‘’taxpayers ‘’ owe the social security trust fund $2.66 trillion.
THE TIME FOR BIPARTISANSHIP IS NOW!
PASS IT ON, IF YOU BELIEVE IN WE THE PEOPLE.
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GA, I am most anxious in seeing what would your version of nirvana for America, if there really is such a thing?
We may well be looking at the same bowl of fruit, I see apples and you, oranges. Let's find out why. I can better understand your philosophy and reexamine my own as well. I look forward to the exchange
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Jon, As for Cavato on Fox, I will try to catch the program on line and we will see. Thanks
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Jon, who is responsible for the Social Security shortfall, are not both sides involved in using the SS Fund as a piggy bank to avoid adult spending choices such as austerity or raising taxes? I agree that transparency should be the watchword for the activities of the Super Committee
oops - the order of my last response got jumbled in edit - but I'm sure you can piece it together
GA
@Credence2 LOL - My eyes thank you. Just to be clear on one point.
I believe in the betterment of society, but I am not in line with with is usually label progressive/liberal ideas of what that is.
As for our views differing - isn't that a great thing! The ability to do so and still live in the same societal group is much better than the historical examples of the alternative.
GA
I am also not a Republican - what logic is there in supporting a dog that is biting you - just because he isn't sharing you with the rest of the pack?
No, I don't oppose the 16th - taxes are necessary, and it is easy to understand the hardship it would be, and the inability that is a reality, for too many families to have to come up with a mulit-thousand dollar check at tax time.
Credence2
VERY VERY GOOD! Maybe you are closing in on the middle of the road.Check out Cavuto on Fox News during the week and give me an opinion.
Be good and have a terrific thanksgiving holiday.
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Greetings GAAnderson, in reply
@ Credence 2 - Is there room in this sandbox for one more?---------------------------
There is most certainly room; you honor this humble one immensely. Come visit my parlor and have a cup of tea. I see that you are a professional writer. I appreciate your comments and always look to hone my skills. So, you think that I should have more paragraph breaks? Thanks, I will do it next time. ________________________
I do not support Pres. Obama's agenda for social change, I don't agree with any type of forced wealth redistribution.
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Well, we have to respectfully disagree. Then you must be, in principle, opposed to the 16th Amendment and how it has been administered over the past century.
--------------------------------------------------
But I also don't agree with many of the right wing's pro-business mantras either, nor do I agree with responses that are merely reiterations of tired talking points.
----------------------------------------------------
Most naturally, I have problems with the rightwing and political conservatism in general as it has been practiced over the last 30 years. This hard line stuff is far from the days of the fiscal responsibility focus of the Rockerfeller GOP of old.
------------------------
I do agree with the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps"
theory of self-improvement, but do understand some folks might not even have bootstraps, or the strength to pull on them - so they may need a little help.
In the discussion of welfare programs and recipients, both in your hub and the comments here, why is no one mentioning that there are more white folks enrolled in the social assistance programs than blacks?
I do not give Blacks a free-pass, as I recognize that many of our problems are our own doing. I have expressed that in the second part of this article. The conservatives need to show more of us how their approach to the economy is going to provide that bit of help that you mentioned. If the GOP wants to be more successful with minorities, these kinds of issues need to be addressed in a credible way. I remember, fondly, the efforts of the late Jack Kemp and his urban enterprise zones. As far as why no one mentions the fact that there are more whites on the program than blacks? The howling electronic mobs were not interested in actual statistics, but stereotypes that do not represent the reality. Most of the die hard right-wingers acknowledge that fact of more whites on the programs, but still slight minorities for using the programs in disproportionately larger numbers, But in my article, I explained why.
----------------------------------------------
Referencing Pres. Obama's lack of accomplishments due to congressional obstructionism (ie. Republican), what about the almost three years that Democrats controlled both houses, and the Executive branch? Don't blame it all on the Republicans.
----------------------------------------
I can only hold Obama accountable since Jan, 2009. Bush controlled the Executive from Jan 2007 to Jan. 2009. I blame the GOP because they are showing the least desire to compromise and negotiate between the two parties, and that is crucial is we are all going to benefit. I have more than my fair share of rants directed at why I believe is nothing is happening in Washington.
_______________________________
High marks to him for his handling of his Commander-in-Chief responsibilities though. I was very worried about several of those type issues when he was elected.
I think that he doing the best he can under the current circumstances. I did not expect FDR to dig the country out from the Great Depression in a matter of months. This downturn is akin to it and in many ways worse because the society lacks the kind of cohesion that we had so long ago. People are much more isolated today in trying to deal with economic problems.
_________________________________________
I hope you don't get too caught-up in the "rich don't pay their fair share" thing, unless you can define what their fair share is of course.
As a progressive accepting the efficacy of a progressive income tax, it can be determined what is a ‘fair share’, I believe. As I have spoken to in other articles, Government costs money. But, of course, if you do not believe in the Income Tax as established by constitutional amendment agreed to by the majority of the states, there cannot be a ‘fair share’.
__________________________________
It appears to me that Democrats/Progressives live by the credo - spend what we need to get what we want, (ie. programs), and then just take the money we need from wherever we can get it. As the saying goes... when you rob Peter to pay Paul, Paul ain't going to complain.
The GOP has not been the sterling example of fiscal responsibility the last 8 years prior to Obama, preemptive wars, a bloated military structure, irresponsible tax cuts in the face of rising government expenses. Everybody has their sacred cows, I will err on the side of those that most closely benefit the “man in the street” and not Thurston Howell III .
---------------------------------------------------
On the other hand - the Republicans are as "bought" by BIG Money and BIG Business, as the Democrats are "bought" by the BIG Money Special interests(read: Unions)
I am going to support the party that although not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, is lesser of two evils. That party is the Democrats.
____________________________________________
So I would just as soon throw them all out and start over.
I often express frustration with the political process in general and often times believe that we are all ‘being played’ by both sides. But each party has fundamental ideological differences which are shown by how its members vote and what they vote for and why… The GOP appear to favor aristocrats over the masses. It is not just posturing but seem to be the direction of their policy positions.
_______________________
That was just a long-winded attempt to get acquainted, I liked your well-thought our effort, above, salient and articulate, and anticipate a few more visits.
I look forward to becoming better acquainted and am more than willing to step away from the left bank to find the truth, as necessary. Again, praise from a master is most gratifying.
Cred2
Credence2
It was reported today that the US government ‘’taxpayers ‘’ owe the social security trust fund $2.66 trillion. The President and the Democrats believe money grows on trees somewhere in Washington.
The Democrats in 2007 won majority control of Congress, the recession started in Dec. of 2007. Just now viewed a news clip ,July 14, 2008, of Congressman Frank on CNBC telling the public that Fannie and Freddie Macs were not in trouble of failing. Today Congressman Frank was on MSNBC blaming the Republicans for Fannie and Freddie’s failure. The difference between the parties, the Dems continually are blaming others while the other side is trying to solve the problems without blaming the Dems, so funny.
It is remarkable to always blame the Republicans when the Democrats have had 2/3’s control of our government since 2007.The Democrats passed Tarp, the Stimulus, take over of Student Loan programs, Dodd/ Frank banking regulations and the Healthcare Bill, all without the help of the Republicans. THEY JUST ADDED $4.5 TRILLION to the national debt without a return on the investment.
The Healthcare bill was passed by intimidation and deal making for votes. The 72 hours to review the bill was rammed thru with members not even reading the bill or debating the unwritten bill that was not on the House floor as required by House rule.
Famous words of wisdom from Speaker Pelosi ’’ we need to pass the bill so that we will know what’s in it ’’.
The people should demand that the super committee hold the coming meetings OPEN to the public .The public needs to find the truth of what is actually happening behind closed doors. Call your representative and demand to open meetings. President Obama promised a transparent and open administration and government. Just another broken promise!
Please excuse the long reply.
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Nothing personal Jon, but I have a lot reasons to distrust the GOP, their platform, their ideology and their current candidates. There are plenty of hubs that point in that direction. With the possible exception of Jon Huntsman, I will take my chances with Obama before I trust any Republican.
@ Credence 2 - Is there room in this sandbox for one more?
before I start, an aside - hey guy - throw a few paragraph breaks in Part II - my eyes are wore out from reading this one.
But it was a good one - (except for the paragraph formatting)
I do not support Pres. Obama's agenda for social change, I don't agree with any type of forced wealth redistribution.
But I also don't agree with many of the right wing's pro-business mantras either, nor do I agree with responses that are merely reiterations of tired talking points.
I do agree with the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps"
theory of self-improvement, but do understand some folks might not even have bootstraps, or the strength to pull on them - so they may need a little help.
In the discussion of welfare programs and recipients, both in your hub and the comments here, why is no one mentioning that there are more white folks enrolled in the social assistance programs than blacks?
Referencing Pres. Obama's lack of accomplishments due to congressional obstructionism (ie. Republican), what about the almost three years that Democrats controlled both houses, and the Executive branch? Don't blame it all on the Republicans.
High marks to him for his handling of his Commander-in-Chief responsibilities though. I was very worried about several of those type issues when he was elected.
I hope you don't get too caught-up in the "rich don't pay their fair share" thing, unless you can define what their fair share is of course.
It appears to me that Democrats/Progressives live by the credo - spend what we need to get what we want, (ie. programs), and then just take the money we need from wherever we can get it. As the saying goes... when you rob Peter to pay Paul, Paul ain't going to complain.
On the other hand - the Republicans are as "bought" by BIG Money and BIG Business, as the Democrats are "bought" by the BIG Money Special interests(read: Unions)
So I would just as soon throw them all out and start over.
That was just a long-winded attempt to get acquainted, I liked your well-thought our effort, above, salient and articulate, and anticipate a few more visits.
GA
ps. don't forget those paragraph breaks
Credence2
Thank you for your response. For all one sided hubbers, I was a longtime registered Democrat, recently changed to Independent. HS and others have attacked my writings as right-winger, sad to say .What I write are facts, many of the attackers don't reply to what I write. They are entitled to their opinions which in most cases are not the whole truth but a half truth similar to what the president does when he speaks to the public.
Take notice that in many of his press conferences he leaves without ALLOWING QUESTIONS.
I always enjoy a debate with HS, TELL HIM I MISS THE ACTION.
- Author
No offense taken, Jon, But you are hardly impartial in this debate and I have seen you frequently in HS' parlour debating roughly the same thing. I may not be as well as versed as he is in the fine points of government operations., but I read his articles and posts and my opinion is congruent with his on 99% of points discussed. i will look into your Fox news reference, seriously and be as objective as I can. I do not have to be a Rhodes Scholar to know not only today but over many years which party has been the biggest pain in my rear. The one I distrust to a greater extent. I have written many articles in regard to the rightwinger, conservatives and the GOP, check them out sometime if you seek understanding. You were for the cut cap and balance? Then you are way outside my ideological and political comfort zone. Sorry, HS is better at stripping you bare and getting you to tell us what you have conveniently omitted in your attacks on the President and the Dems.
Credence2
IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW OUR GOVERNMENT WORKS, you need to understand that the leader of the House and the Senate are in command of what bills and legislation gets to the floor to debate, amend and vote on. In order for the president (3rd party of control)to give his approval by signing a bill, both the House and the Senate needs to agree by voting to pass the legislation before any action by the president.
The Republican House has passed 15 jobs bills that are sitting in the Senate waiting for Democrat Senator Reid to act on, meaning a debate and vote.
The President ,if he told the whole truth would not be complaining about the Republicans, it is his party that is the hold-up to getting any thing accomplished.
With due respect, please find another source of information and I mean no offense to you in anyway.
- Author
What democratic control, Jon? Your rightwing young guns in the house have been holding everything up. I not going to buy into fiction that the Dems are holding up the show. You guys just want Obama and the Dems to capitulate to your insane demands regarding what your side wants in regards to taxes and it ain't gonna happen. It the GOP that is being shown as time and time again not doing its job of negotiating and acceptable agreement.
Credence2
Will patiently hope for a reply.
The Senate passed a continuing resolution (a CR )TO FUND THE GOVERNMENT TO DEC. 15,2011.Obama and the Democrat contolled Senate has yet to pass a 2012 budget, wonder why?
The Republican House passed a bipartisan 2012 budget in Feb. as required by congressional rules.
SOMEBODY IN WASHINGTON ARE NOT DOING THE JOB.
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I oonsider his performance admirable considering the sheer bulk of the mess left by his predecessor. This is the equivalent of Herbert Hoover/GWBush and FDR/Obama. Without rightwing obstruction, I am sure that he could do better. The problems we facenow have been in the making over the last 25 years. Do I really expect one man to solve all of it in 3. I will take my chances with him over any GOP, that is one thing on which you may rely.
Credence2
'' I am satisfied ..... with his current performance,''
WHAT do you consider his performance?
Can you list some?
- Author
I am satisfied as many of us on the left are with his current performance, thank you Jon
Credence2
''I will always err on the side of Obama over the unsubstantiated criticism ''
WONDERING WHY OBAMA CAN'T LEAD? The Super committee needs to come to an agreement before thanksgiving, a continuing resolution to keep the government open is needed next week and a 2012 budget has not been presented by the Senate.
The President continues to blame Congress for not passing his jobs bill, mentioning only that the Republicans are the cause of why the bills are not passed.. The Republican House has passed 15 jobs bills that the Democrat Senate has not voted on as yet. Please tell the people that ''THE MAN '' is incompetent of performing the duties of the highest office in the land.
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Sorry, Jon, I don't buy it. He is in the Pacific for a specific reason, a trade agreement to help with job issues. What are your conservatives doing sitting on their duffs. Seems like your dislike for Obama exceeds reason and you would not give him credit for anything. I don't trust rightwingers and I will always err on the side of Obama over the unsubstantiated criticism of his Opponents. So what was Bush doing on his ranch when he and your buddies drove the economy into the ground?
Credence2
Veterans Day was yesterday,11-11-11. Today the President and wife left for a nine day asian trip (vacation) to hawaii,bali and indonesia while the super committee works on how to cut $1.2 BILLION out of the budget, how covenient for him to leave the nation.
- Author
I hope this is not like Hannity and Colmes, where the progressive Colmes always looked like the fall guy. I don't trust Fox news, but for the sake of argument, I will check it out. Jon, executive orders are within the confines of the purvue of the president. This president is hardly the first to use them. They are a policy direction and cannot have the force of law involving public funds without congress. Most of us know that. The GOP does filibuster, in the Senate, requiring the 60 vote majority holding things up. Come on Jon, GOP is just no damned good, everybody that does not know it yet will find out when the President's strategy to expose the foot draggers to the public is made evident. The GOP have no real plan to provide jobs now, but are stalling for their own political advantage. Let's see how the voters assess the so called GOP resolve.
You, too , have a nice day!
Credence2
Watch CAVUTO on Fox News during the week and on Sat. morning. CAVUTO will always have a Democrat and a Republican on at the same time, ask questions from both. Afterwards make your own decisions on what they say in relation to what President Obama is saying. Obama says good stuff but what his administration is doing don't coincide. On Monday, Nov 7, 2011, Obama held a rose garden press conference ( took no questions as usual) regarding Congress not passing his jobs bill. The President threatened Congress that if Congress don’t pass the veterans job act, he will take actions to pass the bill without Congress. Note that our Constitution don’t allow the President to make law. The President blaming Congress and the Republicans is not a truthful statement. The facts are that the Republican controlled House has passed 15 jobs bills, they are sitting in the Democrat controlled Senate. If Democrat Senator Reid don’t allow the bills to get to the floor for debate, amend or vote on, nothing moves forward. The Republican Senators have NO control in the Senate, hence they are not allowed to provide a vote. President Obama blaming the Republicans has not been truthful to the American people. Note that Obama NEVER mentions Democrats , who are holding up passage of the jobs bill.
The mainstream media does not report the whole story, sad to say.
HAVE A GOOD DAY
- Author
Thanks, Jon, I will keep that in mind regarding your sources. Is there such a thing as rightwing propaganda? In the face of that possibility how do we know what is true and what is fabricated?
Credence2
That was a terrific response, I loved it.
Try c-span, local business section of news papers, scan CNN and FOX news. Funny how the news looks from 2 sides. Try Saturday morning business programs. Some how Fox shows clips of the past and present of our favorite public servants. Not much of value from the blogs, many only give biased opinions. Looking at a website ,check who the principals are who are in charge. in the end use common sense truthful un biased reporting.
That's it my friend, love the reply.
That was a terrific response, I loved it.
Try c-span, local business section of news papers, scan CNN and Fox news. Funny how the news looks from 2 sides. Try Saturday morning business programs. Some how Fox shows clips of the past and present of our favorite public servants. Not much of value from the blogs, many only give biased opinions. Looking at a website ,check who the principals are and who are in charge. In the end use common sense truthful un biased reporting.
That's it my friend, love the reply.
PS all the rest of the mainstream media reporting is mostly liberal propaganda.
- Author
Jon, you still have not told me the source of your information? I am already wide awake, I afraid that the rightwinger will once again plunge us all into darkness.
Credence2
If you get information from whitehouse.gov, you need to get out in the world and find out what I mean when I say '' the whole truth and nothing but the truth '' or '' a half truth is not a whole truth''. I recently reviewed some of my old hubs only to find out that Obama is still using the same old dung and fodder he used in 2008,2009,2010 and now again in 2011.
Hubbers get over it, come out of the dark and wake up!
Have a wonderful day and hoping that you all will find the TRUTH ONEDAY.
- Author
Hello, Jon, if you are not getting this info from the mainstream media, where are you getting YOUR facts, now, don't tell me it is some rightwing rag. What makes your information and sources more credible?
- Author
Xenonlit, thanks for reading and providing comment. I guess I made it strong to last long!
Credence2
Obama continually blames the Republicans for delaying a jobs bill. The Republican CONTROLED HOUSE has sent the Harry Reid , Democrat controled Senate, some 15 jobs bills that HS has not even taken the time to put the legislation on the floor. Obama and company speak with forked tongue, the mainsteam media hasn't woke up yet,their silence is golden.
The people are getting a steady diet of OBAMA PROPERGANDA.
This is a well thought out and brave hub. It seems when anyone tells certain truths, the backwash can be overwhelming. Keep it up and don't quit!!
- Author
Hi, Peter, as always, I am glad to see you. Jon and I have both have our own firmly held opinions. He says that I am biased in my choice of news sources, which is the mainstream media. Besides Faux news, i wonder what source he considers 'gospel' regarding the issues of the day? He seems to have an irrational disdain for Obama no matter he does or doesn't do. It is difficult to discuss things with other when one side has already arrived at a conclusion before anything can be discussed.
Vaya Con Dios, Peter Thanks Cred2
Credence, Mr. Ewall seems to have the ear and the voice of the Almighty since he is laying claim to be the only one with "the Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth". I think his ministry is lacking in followers though. Many have claimed "Divine Truth" but few have proven it. Even though he may claim not to be religious in intent he is in fact preaching. so no matter what anyone says his answer will always be "the One". Sorry for butting in but your discussion was going nowhere and will continue to do so, Thanks
Peter
- Author
Jon, I could help but notice in another thread how you admonished us all to watch out for misrepresentation by the media, who is your source for unerring information? The truth is not what you say it is. I am with HS totally, in regard to my opinion. And as I have said earlier he is a more eloquent representative of our shared point of than I. I need a plan to get people back to work NOW, Obama has proposed something what is the GOP offering beyond mere obstruction? Obama needs to make their obstanance known to the voters out there more effectively. I think he has learned the lesson of what happens when you try to negotiate with rightwingers...
Credence2
How about letting us all in on where you found the truth.
Share your information with us so that we too can have the truth.
Please tell us the WHOLE TRUTH, not any half truths.Anxiously waiting.
Thanks in advance.
- Author
Sorry, Jon I have found the truth and it certainly has not come in from the poliical right Destroy our society's social compact so that Thurston Howell can have even more baubles at our expense. Yes, there is class warfare,alright, without a doubt and the political right and its aristocrats must be on placed on the losing end. With the occupy Wallstreet movements and such, we will put all the more pressure on the rightwing and its advocates. Exciting times, yes?
Credence2
''Obama offered major cuts 4 trillion''
ONLY TALK, NEVER put on paper or submitted in detail.
ALL PROPAGANDA- SMOKE AND MIRRORS.
Wake up and find the whole truth, not just a half truth.
Try to have a good day.
- Author
The all time misery index and poeverty rates are the outgrowth of a recession/depression unlike any in almost a century. I blame GOP ideological position and policies for getting us here and I can hardly blame Obama having been saddled with the outcomes from GOP profligacy. It seems to me that FDR and ronald Reagan were given more time to right the ship than this president is receiving. It appears to me that your disdain for Obama would be there even if he could walk on water. I can't and do not buy it, sorry Jon. We progressives know who are true enemies are...
- Author
Jon, I have no issue with removing costly and unnecessary regulations as long as my demands for protection regarding health, safety and fairness in the marketplace is maintained. Obama offered major cuts 4 trillion, if I recall, with 3 trillion cuts in programs and 1 trillion from closing loopholes and asking the aristocrats to pay a modest increase in their tax rates. So don't blame the Dems. The cut, cut, cut, without consideration of other factors is dead on arrival for most of us.
Credence2
You said ''We bear a certain amount of blame for our current plight which I will address in Part II''
I SAID ''The 50,000 on food stamps, the 14+ million on unemployment and all time poverty rates are records of the Obama- Democrat majority control of the government.''
MY reply to another hub
On the way to the poverty rolls. LOST 6% on my small IRA, paid $3.67 /gal for gas on my 1988 beater, got a 25% INCREASE in my healthcare insurance, paid 20% HIGHER for food and utility bills that have gone UP 20%. The kicker on my electric bill is a surcharge to pay for green energy regulations to build alternate energy projects. Just another hidden tax that Obama don’t tell people about because people are DUMB. OH, I forgot to include the value of the dollar worth 20% less and value of my small house losing 25% of it’s value in the marketplace.
Followers of Obama believe that the president is doing a great job. Smoke and mirrors covered with a big dose of propaganda helped by the mainstream media and the press.
Americans wake up, seek the whole truth not just a half truth of what Obama is selling. THE RESULT IS POVERTY, HERE WE COME!Just another one of the 14.3 million group.
Have a great day
Credence2
''but not those that protect the health, safety and FAIRNESS concepts betweeen the American people and the so called Job Creators''
Allow me to repeat
1.Costly Regulations Cost Us American Jobs, WHY?
http://www.gop.gov/indepth/jobs/regulations
2.The Senator Coburn Report July 21, 2011
DEFICIT WASTE IN the US GOVERNMENT see video
Back in the black, the SOLUTION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs
It's now time for the government in Washington to step up. There is $9 trillion in wasteful operations, $4 trillion could be a starter.
FUNNY, HOW THE SUPER COMMITTEEE CAN’T FIND $1.5 in savings.
- Author
I checked out the GOP site and read the summary, thanks for furnishing it. But we still need jobs right now! I want unnecessary regulations removed but not those that protect the health, safety and fairness concepts betweeen the American people and the so called Job Creators. These cuts as HS has told you must be balanced requiring the affluent to pay their fair share. Why all the loopholes and subsidies for the Thurston Howell group? I certainly cannot afford that. The middle class must not be at the mercy of the oligarchs. Put simply, Jon, everybody has to get skin in the game or there is no deal.
Credence2
THE GOP PLAN IS SIMPLE,stop the spending,cut government WASTE and tell the american peole the whole TRUTH.
SENATOR COBURN identified $9 trillion of waste in the government.
The House Republican PLAN for America’s Job Creators
A blueprint to JOB recovery
http://www.gop.gov/indepth/jobs
Obama tells the public that the republicans have no plan, Obama lies again.
The President's jobs bill is scheduled to be debated in the Senate this coming week. Check c-spans program listings, they should have some hearings to show.
The 5.4 surtax on millionaires reminded me of the luxury taxes Congress placed on high expensive products some years ago.
The millionaires just stopped buying airplanes, boats, cars and stopped investing. Many of the effected industries went down the tubes and many workers were laid off.
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