Politicans didn't break the system; WE did

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   promisemposted 7 years ago

   Seeing people yell and complain on these boards and elsewhere that all politicians are corrupt is getting old. They act that way because WE make them act that way.
   
   Do we live in a democracy or not? Do we have the right to vote or not? Do we have the ability to learn the ins and outs of issues or not?
   
   I have known some people who have been in politics a long time. Some are good and some are bad just like any other group of people.
   
   I know they act the way they do because they get nothing but abuse from the public. Most of it comes from people who are ignorant on the issues, completely self absorbed and couldn't offer rational feedback to their representative if they were paid to do it.
   
   For my part, I volunteer, try to learn the issues and donate money to charities and campaigns. I am far from perfect, but I try to be a good citizen. What do you do?

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      PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I read this and hesitated to list what I do, because it feels a little like saying "Look at me, aren't I grand?" But, I agree with Bernie that real change comes from the bottom up. Here is what I do:
      
      Donate to local and national campaigns
      Worked for the Bernie campaign and volunteered for Obama
      Currently running for local office
      Serve on local community groups, including the Chamber of Commerce, the board of a local nonprofit, and a local "action team"
      
      I try hard not to categorize people but I confess I have no patience for people who repeatedly spout blatantly false cr@p and I have a hard time feeling respect for them.
      
      I believe we can make our democracy work for us. We have to be willing to spend the time to be well informed, and we have to involve ourselves in the process.

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         promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Panther, I hesitated to mention any of what I do for the reason you describe. But I'm trying to encourage people to step up to the plate.
         
         Regardless of whether or not we agree on all issues, I'm happy to get a reply from someone who does as much as you do.
         
         Anyone who has done volunteer work of any kind knows that it's difficult to get help. Even people who say they are willing to help end up paying lip service.
         
         Personally, I have no respect for people who take potshots from a distance.
         
         Good luck running for local office!

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      wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Had my run in with politics a long time ago, at the lowest level of an HOA (albeit a very large one) board of directors.  As you say, some were good and some were bad.  And, as you say, both good and bad took a tremendous amount of flak from ignorant, self absorbed people that cared only for their own personal situation.  I remember one woman that told us her husband's contracting business would rip out a swimming pool and replace it with a larger one for less than the bids we had for simply white coating the one we had.  (She declined to give a written quote, though.)  And another that told us she had replaced 8 tires in 2 months because of the pothole in front of her house.  People that seriously told the BOD to ignore a failing roof on the administration office building because employees could put buckets under the drips coming through!  I also remember 2 directors that, told by our attorney that we had a fiduciary duty to maintain the association, refused to raise dues after a decade of no increases but rapid growth because they wouldn't "dig into their neighbors pockets".
      
      I don't donate to campaigns, though I might if I knew the candidate personally.  I do donate to charities I think do a good job at using my money for something other than paying VIP's and raising more money.  I've donated time, and even my home to those in need of temporary living support. 
      
      And I try to get a feel for what a political candidate stands for.  The last few elections it comes down to which one will do the least damage, which is truly sad.

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         promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         You and I have at least that much in common. I spent four years on an HOA board in a community of 2,000 people. The duty made me feel sorry for politicians. I went through some of the same experiences that you cite.
         
         We had the lowest HOA fees in the county -- no increases in 8 years. Inflation left us with the choice of closing the clubhouse, closing the pool or raising the HOA fee. We felt we had no choice but to raise the fee. Quite a few people were outraged.
         
         I mostly donate to the few politicians I know personally where we have private, one-on-one conversations. That's when I got to know what they have to put up with to get elected and serve the public.

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            wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Yep - same thing happened to us.  2400 lots, all owned and paying dues but only a couple hundred had homes on them.  Over a 10 year span after being built, no increases in dues but an additional 600 or 800 homes built.  33 miles of deteriorating roads, tennis courts unusable, both pools shut down, playgrounds unsafe for kids, admin building falling apart but no one would raise the dues.
            
            We raised dues from 220 (lowest in the area) to 500 (still below average) just to get a start on all of it.  As President I got threats against me AND my children!  Stupid, ignorant people - it was inevitable that they would rise again, and they did 3 years later after our replacements tried for a year to run the place with only $400.dues and failed miserably.  It's amazing how people can rationalize away whatever they don't want to hear.
            
            Never again - I was a hated man for doing what was ethically, physically and legally necessary instead of what my "constituents" wanted.  What our politicians, in other words, refuse to do.

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      GA Andersonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Oh gawd! Now it's a contest to see who is the most civic minded. Geesh!
      
      I don't give nothing to nobody! I need to save my money for ammo and bug-out supplies ;-)
      
      GA

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         PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Lol I was afraid it would be perceived that way.

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            promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Being teased shouldn't stop any of us from talking about actionable ideas on how to make things better.

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               PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Agree. I'm used to it anyway.

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         promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         GA, whether or not your post is in jest, I'm not trying to set up a contest. I'm trying to get people to talk about how to make our communities and country better.
         
         No one should be embarrassed or ashamed to talk about how they contribute to the community.

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   Live to Learnposted 7 years ago

   I'm quite jaded. I give directly to people in need and feed the hungry here in my community. Primarily because I know every dollar helps 100% not just 40% or less.
   
   Politics has gotten so corrupt, if I find an honest politician I'll donate. Haven't found one yet.
   
   You can blame us all you want. Considering the fact that we have become less than powerless I think that's an odd accusation.

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      promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Congratulations on giving to the community. You do more than most.
      
      If we have the right to vote, how are we powerless?

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         Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I consider us to be powerless because the political machines usually limit the field to people who are part of the machine, the atmosphere in Washington and at state level is so corrupt that many who run do so with the intent to enrich themselves; not out of a desire to serve the people and also because the lobbyists are so entrenched in the current system that politicians are quickly corrupted once in office; even if they initially had some noble intent. Those who do not become corrupted are in such a minority that they are virtually ineffectual

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            promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Nothing stops a majority of voters from voting for a third-party candidate. Nothing stops millions of people from marching on Washington to demand change.
            
            But many people would rather stay home, watch TV and simply complain.

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               Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Well, one problem in America today is the amount of disinformation flying around and, the weight of both parties working to divide this nation so everyone is too afraid of the other to march side by side.

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                  promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree with you. How do you think we should fix it?

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   Perhaps Trump will be the rallying call to action. Perhaps Trump will bring the revolution we need. Electing Trump might be the most we can do. If not, we are probably quite doomed. I wonder if he realizes the position he will be in, as POTUS.
   He needs to secure the nation and regulate interstate commerce and other than that, just be quiet ... as in shhhhh…
   
   …  what if whoever is elected is our   l a s t   president???

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   Castlepalomaposted 7 years ago

   Leave to Bolivia before the dollar crashes. Build sustainable villages there. Then teach other students how to build their own homes produce natural energy and food.
   
   After the Dark Empire dose their dirty and American lockup Zionist bankers. Then when the grid is Simi working and radiation level are safe .
   
   I will come in with missionary to teach lessons in love, under no guns zones . Then all these Bolivian teachers will teach how to live naturally  and not synthetically. When America decides to make love not war from now on. Then I will do what ever it takes to help them along in their new spiritual age advancement

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   Castlepalomaposted 7 years ago

   I don't care if anybody approves about my action, they are not just words. Taking care of oneself first is most important. It"s not selfish, it's self serve in order to serve others best. Not the same as the me me society we live in.
   
   When  most of us  know politicians get worst and are worthless anymore. The dollar will crash and wars are unstoppable. If people want to be sucker to endured the suffering and death to come, It's been my unfailing nightmares for the last 5 years,
   .These nightmares are actually unfolding from the writing on the wall, to the reality starting with standoff military on Russia and China boarders. Then at home, homeless are going in to fema camps. Then you got 38℅ over age 16 out of work. They coming for you pension and health care to support their war.
   
   Rarely could an American believe ever. That from all the decades of ruining other countries by stealing and murdering women and children their way to the top, ever come back as karma. General Americans do not have to remorse from their banisters theif or from their killer police policies of the world.
   
   There is more than a fool born everyday they grow in packs of millions totally brainwashed by a system that dumped you overboard 30 years ago. More of your so called leaders want to depopulate the earth rather than take part in many other intelligence solutions that could go in effect today. Get ready for Karma to come back three fold with a pile on of many countries like knives into Julius Caesar back.
   
   
   Just finishing off selling of 2 properties now and got the finance. Also the plan and all the skills to carry out dreams rather than endure the living nightmares

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   PrettyPantherposted 7 years ago

   Two of my favorite quotes about cynicism.
   
   "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it."--George Bernard Shaw
   
   "Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."--Peggy Noonan
   
   Having spent a lot my of time and energy "doing, " I have dealt with a lot of cynics who sit back and make judgments on those who stick out their necks to try and make things better. It's so easy to pretend the reason you're doing nothing is because you have wisely seen it will do no good. Sorry, but that's a huge copout in my view.. The easiest way to get rid of a cynic is to ask them to step up and do something. Works every time.

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      Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Never was a cynic until my nightmares came into play 5 years ago. I'm always a man who walks his talk even called an opti-holic or a addiction to optimism all my life.
      
      It is just this time the danger is too grand and must change up my optimism in another direction. Because working in economics slavery with no chance of getting out national debt is beyond anyone. So by moveing to a country without it being debtor Nation and building on dreams is positive action. Without dreams my Universe ease to exist and to be unable to give no positive service. For all we have in life is to give it all away. Yet not to just give it all away to greedy bastard.

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      wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I'd have to say that the biggest cop out is doing the same thing and hoping for a different result this time because "Well, it might work this time around".  My little 4 year old grandson used to do that - every meal he declared he would not spill his drink, put it in the same spot by his elbow and proceed to spill it again.  Every meal, but every meal it would be different this time.
      
      It's really not that hard to learn from history - it just means that pretending the same actions will produce different results is not the smart thing to do.

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         PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Agree. That's why it's folly to vote for those who support trickle down economics.. Just one example.

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            wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Or for those that think taking more of what others have earned is a good idea.  Or that throwing money at poverty will decrease it.  Or that taking guns will cut the death toll.  Yes, just a few more examples.

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               PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Fair enough. This thread is about how individuals are contributing. Do you have something to add in that regard?

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                  PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Sorry! I forgot you did that early in the thread.

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         promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I'll throw this idea at you that I hope a conservative will appreciate.
         
         I believe every community should have a civic organization such as a public foundation that serves as the gap between individuals and government.
         
         It will rely on donations and volunteers. It will fund areas of the community that are getting adequate support from government or direct contributions. It will act as a clearinghouse of information to guide the community to places that currently need more money or volunteers.
         
         Yes, these ideas exist, but in a very fragmented form. A true community foundation in every city and county can alleviate the need for taxes and larger governments. Most foundations either give grants at the local level or do research at the national level. This type would do both at a local level.

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            wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            It sounds nice, but not for me.  I've only done volunteer work a few times, but in every instance find myself eventually overwhelmed.  Once the organization (whatever it is) figures out that you're dependable and steady, they start pouring work on.  I'm a soft touch - hard to say "No" when needed, and for no more reason that I want time off - so I get overwhelmed.
            
            But I'd be more interested in helping people support themselves than in finding money and ways to give it away.  Help homeowners/renters fix their own place, with help from a professional.  Same for car owners.  Helping people find a job.  Help set up a self-sustaining day care, staffed by those without a job, so that others can find work.  Tutoring for children (or adults) needing scholastic help.  My old home town has a beautiful playground, funded entirely by volunteer labor and donations of materials - stores donated "stuff" and the people of the community did all the work to construct it - nothing at all from taxes.
            
            That's more my line of thing, and more in line as I see it for most conservatives.  Rather than researching how to get a federal or state grant (that someone else paid taxes for), help people to help themselves.  Help someone crawl under their own car, get greasy and fix the (whatever) rather than ask  a third party across the country to pay taxes to reduce their grocery cost so they can afford to hire someone to fix their car.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Home prices must come down. Do not let foreign investor's buy our land. As a patriotic gesture, do not attempt to flip houses or use properties as investment strategies. Oh, what am I saying in the land of get-rich-quick-without-considering-the effects-on-fellow-citizens. Who cares if our kids' kids end up in tents.

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                  wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  It's not hard to get cheaper houses.  Cut the size in half (American homes are about the largest in the world) and don't try to buy one on the most highly desired piece of land you can find.  Or buy a fixer upper (my choice for every home I've ever purchased) and do the work yourself instead of "hiring" someone else to do it (via flipping it).

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                     Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     There is a lot dirt cheap houses the banker took away in America if your fixable. Government wants their taxes.

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                        wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Good point.  A lot of people grossly overextended themselves and couldn't keep up their payments, and a lot of those did a lot of damage out of anger before leaving.
                        
                        But government gets their taxes whether the bank owns it or the individual.  In my area they will get more because the owner isn't living in it - we get a 50% reduction in taxes if we're living in the home we're paying taxes on.

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                           Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           Is it too much to ask to suggest doing anything out of patriotism? Can't we just keep the house prices low enough so decent hardworking AMERICAN families can afford them?
                           Yes!!!   In this land of free market capitalism…   
                           Out of patriotism, we should have stopped buying from China too.
                           Out of patriotism, we should have kept our businesses and production at home.
                           Patriotism cannot be forced. Free will (self-guided will) comes into play.  Wisdom-guided-will is not valued because we are at the lower end of the higher ages.
                           
                           TWISI

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                              Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              Half of American loss their homes because they could not afford their medical bills or by way of personal bankruptcy.
                              
                              That would not happen in Canada or in many other countries in the world.

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                                 wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                 Didn't happen in America, either.  There are people that lost their homes because of medical bills, but half?  Don't be ridiculous.

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                                    Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                    NBC News quotes Harvard University studied shows that half of bankruptcy are due to medical bills or at least trigger by these bills.
                                    
                                    I heard these stats on a few places online.
                                    
                                    Americans medical bill are about 3 times greater than Canada per capita. It mainly just very rare cases that do not get medically funded in Canada.

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                                       wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                       Well, I'd likely agree that medical bills are the trigger, but they usually aren't the cause.  That's from living beyond your means and spending every dime that comes in.
                                       
                                       Don't know about the bill - do you mean that the injured don't pay as much per person or that Canadians don't pay as much per capita seeking help?  I would expect the US to be higher, but mostly because we pay the insurance companies, but then that could be offset by more people going for minor reasons in Canada - after all, it's free isn't it?  And of course there's always the  question of how much care is being given, on average, in both countries as well as the number receiving very expensive care.  I read where lots of Canadians cross the border because Canada won't pay for what they need (or want).

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                                          Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                          Because of rare unfounded cases and more top notch America surgeon along sometimes too long a waiting time. Some Canadian will go to  the US.
                                          
                                          Canada dose not cover dental so I will go the Bolivia for 1/10 the cost and same results.

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      ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I still would rather  suffer  even sorely constructive cynicism  than to suffer from that which many, many  liberals suffer from ,  The elitist  intellectual state of being  Godlike , you know , the one of such deficits of social maturity ,  of lack of constructive ability to remedy all their   failings of the last fifty years . Race riots ,    inner city economic meltdowns  , an incredibly deficient  , though well organized education system  . Gees' where do I stop ?
      
      Intellect without wisdom !  Pretty much describes liberals today.

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         PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, we know,. Liberals bad.

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   Castlepalomaposted 7 years ago

   We could argue forever on who loves ice cream vs chocolate . Or converatives backs vs liberal fronts fairytales. They both work for the same puppet master greedy bastard. Nobody has a sane plan to stopped them from taking everything you got. If people pretend to think financial matters are getting better since the 70s and Politicians will be the answers to their prayers. Then they are are asleep dreaming the American Myth. In reality they have been bought and sold by Corporatism lawyers. I know I'm not front line brave or stupid enough to hang out and find out my  nightmares have come true by a100℅ again.

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   ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

   Answer , Stop buying the media in any form .  ,   I only seek out free sources of media  for one .  Subscribe to none of the major outlets , and have stopped buying USA  today , local , state newspapers .  I do not  by any of their crap !

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